Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Talk Show Host Beau Bock, Professor Murray Sperber

Aired March 15, 2003 - 09:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: For now more on top of that, we've discussed throughout the morning, should college athletes be paid to play? Some think -- they bring in millions of dollars each year for their schools, so what do you think? We have two views, one from Atlanta, talk show host Beau Bock, and from San Francisco, author and university professor Murray Sperber.
Thanks for being with us, both of you.

Let me start off with you, Beau. Should these guys be paid?

BEAU BOCK, CO-HOST, "THE ZONE": I don't think so. I think we have the greatest sport system in the world. You know, in the European nations, their sports is based on the club system. Here it is the collegiate system. We have student athletes, so to speak. They really are athletes.

When you think about the monetary problems that some of them may have, it's really a small portion of the athletes that really go through (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I mean, athletes find enough money to get tattooed. I don't think we have to pay them.

COOPER: Murray Sperber, Beau says we have the greatest sports system in the world. What do you think?

MURRAY SPERBER, INDIANA UNIVERSITY: Oh, I think right in Atlanta, you've got real student athletes at Emory University, but it's division 3. I think when you're talking across town at Georgia Tech and big-time college basketball, for instance, and football, you're talking commercial entertainment.

I mean, CBS pays $6 billion. The athletes at that level are in these intensive training programs 40, 50, 60 hours a week. It's very hard for them to go to class.

You know, I interviewed athletes across the country, had many in classes for 30 years now. I've encountered very few dumb jocks. I think that's a media myth. But I've met many, many young men and women who are physically and mentally exhausted from working this tremendously hard job. And as a result, academically underachieved. I mean, you saw at Georgia, they had to set up sort of a fictional course, give the athletes A's for not attending.

COOPER: Well, you call it a job and entertainment. Do you think they should be paid? SPERBER: Yes, yes. I think they should. I think most people who work for universities are staff people, are not faculty. I think athletes could be hired on four-year contracts. If they want to take a course or two, they get a fee remission like all other staff. You could -- as part of the signing bonus, you could guarantee that if they don't make the pros or their pro career is over, you could guarantee their education that way. And I think that would work much better.

COOPER: Beau, what do you think?

BOCK: Murray, for crying out loud, I mean, we have a situation here, where -- when are we going to start paying athletes right from the get-go? Athletes today are nurtured so much that we're taking the guys out of the workforce when they're finished their pro careers because they're making so much money with their second contract, they don't have to work another day in their life.

We have a situation here in Georgia with a local university where a kid did not go to school. Now they're on probation, they're being suspended. So when a kid doesn't go to class, it really, you know, makes an impact.

Secondarily, the beauty of going to school and playing sports is because -- is that it does take so much out of you, and that is why the athletes are being paid. They're being paid in the form of a scholarship, a college education.

COOPER: Well, Beau, but what about the argument that, you know, some of these athletes are not going to go on to the pros. They're not going to go onward. Maybe they get injured, you know, during college time. Why not give them some compensation?

BOCK: Well, these athletes, they have the ability, if you can't parlay your sports notoriety in the public relations that is afforded you throughout your college career into a second career, then you really weren't worth the price of admission to begin with. These guys are afforded wonderful opportunities to go into the marketplace with alumni, very often, and have a wonderful second career.

COOPER: Murray Sperber, is that wonderful?

SPERBER: I think you're overlooking the hundreds and hundreds of athletes who don't have that opportunity. Those kids at St. Bonaventure certainly didn't have that opportunity, but they were perfectly willing to take a kid who didn't have an associate's degree from a junior college, only a welding certificate.

I think Beau is only looking at a small percentage of the athletes in big-time college sports. I think the coaches are driving it, the coaches are making millions per year from it, and -- but you got to win. And so you put the athletes in more and more intensive training programs, and it's very hard for most of them to get a meaningful education.

So I say, you know, if you want to concentrate on your sport when you're college age, fine. And, you know, I've had many athletes in classes whose eligibility was over, either through four years or through injury, and they're wonderful students. I mean, the discipline they've learned in sports, they can finally apply to going to school full-time. They're much better than my frat-rat beer- drinking party animal students, who never get with the academic program.

BOCK: And Murray, very often those fifth-year students are still on scholarships, so they're getting and finishing their education so they go on to a second career. Because a kid plays a couple or three years of college ball, basketball, football, baseball, whatever, you want him to be afforded opportunities for the rest of his life? Yes, they are, because he parlays the public relations into something.

If you want to pay the athletes, Murray, where is the money going to come from? Ninety percent of all athletic departments are losing money today. Where are you going to pay their -- where is that money come from? You say $6 billion for the rights to -- yes, but, I mean, think about the cost of insurance, think about the cost of disability insurance, think about the cost of charters and getting these kids to...

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BOCK: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to other venues.

(CROSSTALK)

SPERBER: It's extraordinary.

COOPER: Murray, how would that work? And, I mean, would you also pay female athletes?

SPERBER: Well...

COOPER: What about some...

SPERBER: ... sure...

COOPER: ... really good high school...

SPERBER: ... I think, I think...

COOPER: ... athletes?

SPERBER: ... one thing -- You know, I wrote a book called "College Sports, Inc.," about how much schools are losing money on college sports, so I'm well aware of it. I think they should go to their revenue-generating bases, which are basketball and football, and particularly if you hire the athletes in those sports, I think the other sports, which are tremendously expensive, they're called nonrevenue sports for a reason because they lose so much money, I think they would have to drop down much more to club status like at Emory.

You know, I spent a lot of time doing research at Emory university. I was very impressed, met the AD, met all the people. And students there are real student athletes, they're 20 hours a week. They enjoy their sports.

BOCK: Murray, you keep (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SPERBER: They play it well. I -- and it's not commercial entertainment.

BOCK: Murray, you know, these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a sound mind in a sound body is what it's always been, that's always been the ideal. You're taking away...

SPERBER: Right, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BOCK: ... all of these minor sports? What, we're going (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a pro league, now you're going to have professionals playing college sports? It's ridiculous.

COOPER: Well, Beau, Beau, let me ask you...

BOCK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you're talking about taking away basketball.

SPERBER: Well, you've got professionals now. I think that what I'm saying is, look, in the NCAA rule book, all of these silly rules about giving a kid a T-shirt and such, all that goes out the window. The rule book is the size of the Manhattan phone book now. You'd shrink it, you know, to campus size. And you wouldn't have these scandals. I mean, you would cut through all this B.S. just at one stroke (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BOCK: Well, Murray, you can cut the rule book without paying the athletes. I mean, it's ridiculous you can't give them a T-shirt, I agree with you. You should be able to do many of those things. But, you know, that's a far way, you know, from paying athletes.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Murray Sperber, Beau Bock, appreciate you joining us. Interesting discussion, thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Sperber>


Aired March 15, 2003 - 09:18   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: For now more on top of that, we've discussed throughout the morning, should college athletes be paid to play? Some think -- they bring in millions of dollars each year for their schools, so what do you think? We have two views, one from Atlanta, talk show host Beau Bock, and from San Francisco, author and university professor Murray Sperber.
Thanks for being with us, both of you.

Let me start off with you, Beau. Should these guys be paid?

BEAU BOCK, CO-HOST, "THE ZONE": I don't think so. I think we have the greatest sport system in the world. You know, in the European nations, their sports is based on the club system. Here it is the collegiate system. We have student athletes, so to speak. They really are athletes.

When you think about the monetary problems that some of them may have, it's really a small portion of the athletes that really go through (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I mean, athletes find enough money to get tattooed. I don't think we have to pay them.

COOPER: Murray Sperber, Beau says we have the greatest sports system in the world. What do you think?

MURRAY SPERBER, INDIANA UNIVERSITY: Oh, I think right in Atlanta, you've got real student athletes at Emory University, but it's division 3. I think when you're talking across town at Georgia Tech and big-time college basketball, for instance, and football, you're talking commercial entertainment.

I mean, CBS pays $6 billion. The athletes at that level are in these intensive training programs 40, 50, 60 hours a week. It's very hard for them to go to class.

You know, I interviewed athletes across the country, had many in classes for 30 years now. I've encountered very few dumb jocks. I think that's a media myth. But I've met many, many young men and women who are physically and mentally exhausted from working this tremendously hard job. And as a result, academically underachieved. I mean, you saw at Georgia, they had to set up sort of a fictional course, give the athletes A's for not attending.

COOPER: Well, you call it a job and entertainment. Do you think they should be paid? SPERBER: Yes, yes. I think they should. I think most people who work for universities are staff people, are not faculty. I think athletes could be hired on four-year contracts. If they want to take a course or two, they get a fee remission like all other staff. You could -- as part of the signing bonus, you could guarantee that if they don't make the pros or their pro career is over, you could guarantee their education that way. And I think that would work much better.

COOPER: Beau, what do you think?

BOCK: Murray, for crying out loud, I mean, we have a situation here, where -- when are we going to start paying athletes right from the get-go? Athletes today are nurtured so much that we're taking the guys out of the workforce when they're finished their pro careers because they're making so much money with their second contract, they don't have to work another day in their life.

We have a situation here in Georgia with a local university where a kid did not go to school. Now they're on probation, they're being suspended. So when a kid doesn't go to class, it really, you know, makes an impact.

Secondarily, the beauty of going to school and playing sports is because -- is that it does take so much out of you, and that is why the athletes are being paid. They're being paid in the form of a scholarship, a college education.

COOPER: Well, Beau, but what about the argument that, you know, some of these athletes are not going to go on to the pros. They're not going to go onward. Maybe they get injured, you know, during college time. Why not give them some compensation?

BOCK: Well, these athletes, they have the ability, if you can't parlay your sports notoriety in the public relations that is afforded you throughout your college career into a second career, then you really weren't worth the price of admission to begin with. These guys are afforded wonderful opportunities to go into the marketplace with alumni, very often, and have a wonderful second career.

COOPER: Murray Sperber, is that wonderful?

SPERBER: I think you're overlooking the hundreds and hundreds of athletes who don't have that opportunity. Those kids at St. Bonaventure certainly didn't have that opportunity, but they were perfectly willing to take a kid who didn't have an associate's degree from a junior college, only a welding certificate.

I think Beau is only looking at a small percentage of the athletes in big-time college sports. I think the coaches are driving it, the coaches are making millions per year from it, and -- but you got to win. And so you put the athletes in more and more intensive training programs, and it's very hard for most of them to get a meaningful education.

So I say, you know, if you want to concentrate on your sport when you're college age, fine. And, you know, I've had many athletes in classes whose eligibility was over, either through four years or through injury, and they're wonderful students. I mean, the discipline they've learned in sports, they can finally apply to going to school full-time. They're much better than my frat-rat beer- drinking party animal students, who never get with the academic program.

BOCK: And Murray, very often those fifth-year students are still on scholarships, so they're getting and finishing their education so they go on to a second career. Because a kid plays a couple or three years of college ball, basketball, football, baseball, whatever, you want him to be afforded opportunities for the rest of his life? Yes, they are, because he parlays the public relations into something.

If you want to pay the athletes, Murray, where is the money going to come from? Ninety percent of all athletic departments are losing money today. Where are you going to pay their -- where is that money come from? You say $6 billion for the rights to -- yes, but, I mean, think about the cost of insurance, think about the cost of disability insurance, think about the cost of charters and getting these kids to...

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BOCK: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to other venues.

(CROSSTALK)

SPERBER: It's extraordinary.

COOPER: Murray, how would that work? And, I mean, would you also pay female athletes?

SPERBER: Well...

COOPER: What about some...

SPERBER: ... sure...

COOPER: ... really good high school...

SPERBER: ... I think, I think...

COOPER: ... athletes?

SPERBER: ... one thing -- You know, I wrote a book called "College Sports, Inc.," about how much schools are losing money on college sports, so I'm well aware of it. I think they should go to their revenue-generating bases, which are basketball and football, and particularly if you hire the athletes in those sports, I think the other sports, which are tremendously expensive, they're called nonrevenue sports for a reason because they lose so much money, I think they would have to drop down much more to club status like at Emory.

You know, I spent a lot of time doing research at Emory university. I was very impressed, met the AD, met all the people. And students there are real student athletes, they're 20 hours a week. They enjoy their sports.

BOCK: Murray, you keep (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SPERBER: They play it well. I -- and it's not commercial entertainment.

BOCK: Murray, you know, these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a sound mind in a sound body is what it's always been, that's always been the ideal. You're taking away...

SPERBER: Right, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

BOCK: ... all of these minor sports? What, we're going (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a pro league, now you're going to have professionals playing college sports? It's ridiculous.

COOPER: Well, Beau, Beau, let me ask you...

BOCK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you're talking about taking away basketball.

SPERBER: Well, you've got professionals now. I think that what I'm saying is, look, in the NCAA rule book, all of these silly rules about giving a kid a T-shirt and such, all that goes out the window. The rule book is the size of the Manhattan phone book now. You'd shrink it, you know, to campus size. And you wouldn't have these scandals. I mean, you would cut through all this B.S. just at one stroke (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BOCK: Well, Murray, you can cut the rule book without paying the athletes. I mean, it's ridiculous you can't give them a T-shirt, I agree with you. You should be able to do many of those things. But, you know, that's a far way, you know, from paying athletes.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Murray Sperber, Beau Bock, appreciate you joining us. Interesting discussion, thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Sperber>