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CNN Saturday Morning News
Analysis of Intelligence Used to Catch Iraqi Regime Members, Intelligence Hoped to be Obtained From Them
Aired April 26, 2003 - 07:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The Iraqi regime, of course, collapsed like a deck of cards after some not-too-gentle pushing. Some of the people who appeared on those cards have been picked up by coalition forces, such as Tariq Aziz, who served as deputy prime minister. Most Americans recognize him pretty quickly.
Others in the U.S. custody are not even on the cards, such as Farouk Hijazi, the former Iraqi intelligence official accused of plotting to kill former President Bush in 1993. Now, he wasn't on the cards because he was overseas, not in Iraq, at the time of the war. He was the ambassador there to Tunisia.
For the latest on the search for the most wanted, and what the coalition can learn from those in custody, we turn to CNN security analyst, Kelly McCann.
Kelly, good to see you this morning.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hey, Anderson.
COOPER: How do they get information out of these guys?
MCCANN: Well, you know, it's a unique thing in this case, because you're dealing with government officials, not battlefield kind of combatants, so there's a little bit different approach. I mean, certainly they're going to bring in with the CIA and the military more informed people about the regime, more, quote, unquote, "Iraqi experts."
And then it really goes to the survey's team analysis of what's the best methodology? In other words, they'll do a survey to find out what kind of personality traits exist with these men, what kind of approach would be best to use. Then they'll pass that off to an interrogation team.
That team will make a strategy and decide whether it's best to negotiate with them a little bit, negotiating being used loosely here, or whether to involve some stress-and-duress kinds of tactics.
But the bottom line is, is the status is in question. Are they POWs, or are they, quote, unquote, "war crime -- criminals," and what does that mean? That's the big problem.
COOPER: And that, of course, is significant, because that determines how you can interact with them, how much stress you can put them under. There was an interesting article in "The L.A. Times" the other day about the -- when the military intelligence, the guy who headed Iraqi military intelligence, gave himself up, he had an intermediary basically negotiate his surrender.
And it -- pride was very important to him, and he negotiated what seat he was going to sit in the Humvee, whether it was going to be in the front seat or the back seat. Because he was a general, he felt this was important to maintain his honor.
So the people they bring in to talk to these people, to interrogate them, they got to be pretty sophisticated. They've got to, you know, pick up on things like that.
MCCANN: That's exactly right. And the bottom line is, is, by him negotiating, their actual negotiation, and what they negotiated for, could be telling as far as what strategy to use in the interrogation process. Bottom line is, is, the minute they start to interact, they start to give up information about themselves.
And of course, what we're trying to get, I mean, there's an incredible amount of information, not the least of which is terror links. Remember that both Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas were in Iraq.
I mean, just to know that they were, in fact, giving safe haven to those kinds of people, where Iraqi leadership is, what was the extent of the weapons of mass destruction program, what were the lines of communication with other foreign governments, that's the kind of thing that these men would be able to give them, not so much the tactical battlefield information that in, in the, you know, 7,000 POWs could give other interrogators.
COOPER: But, I mean, if they know where the bodies are buried, so to speak, that's information the U.S. very badly wants, but it -- will the U.S. negotiate for that kind of information?
MCCANN: Negotiating, again, being loosely termed. In other words, with these men, pride is key. So what you leave them with, in other words, is most important, not so much what you can take away. The exact opposite is true for a battlefield combatant, when you take away luxury, you take away comfort, you take away physical comfort. You might use physical pain.
With these men, it's the exact opposite. What are you going to leave them with after this is all over? That becomes the bargaining chip.
Now, to the extent that many of these people have, quote, unquote, "blood on their hands," that's the key. At what level do we say -- you and I spoke about this in Atlanta -- what -- who is -- at what level do you say his hands were bloody enough that we're going to prosecute? But this man, his hands were not, quote, unquote, "bloody enough," we'll let...
COOPER: Right.
MCCANN: ... him slide. Key stuff.
COOPER: Well, they also may be negotiating really for the safety of their families. They may say to themselves, You know what? My gig is up, my days are numbered, but, you know, maybe I can get something for my family, because a lot of them are obviously very concerned about the safety of their loved ones.
Kelly McCann, appreciate you joining us. Thanks.
MCCANN: My pleasure, Anderson.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Intelligence Hoped to be Obtained From Them>
Aired April 26, 2003 - 07:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The Iraqi regime, of course, collapsed like a deck of cards after some not-too-gentle pushing. Some of the people who appeared on those cards have been picked up by coalition forces, such as Tariq Aziz, who served as deputy prime minister. Most Americans recognize him pretty quickly.
Others in the U.S. custody are not even on the cards, such as Farouk Hijazi, the former Iraqi intelligence official accused of plotting to kill former President Bush in 1993. Now, he wasn't on the cards because he was overseas, not in Iraq, at the time of the war. He was the ambassador there to Tunisia.
For the latest on the search for the most wanted, and what the coalition can learn from those in custody, we turn to CNN security analyst, Kelly McCann.
Kelly, good to see you this morning.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hey, Anderson.
COOPER: How do they get information out of these guys?
MCCANN: Well, you know, it's a unique thing in this case, because you're dealing with government officials, not battlefield kind of combatants, so there's a little bit different approach. I mean, certainly they're going to bring in with the CIA and the military more informed people about the regime, more, quote, unquote, "Iraqi experts."
And then it really goes to the survey's team analysis of what's the best methodology? In other words, they'll do a survey to find out what kind of personality traits exist with these men, what kind of approach would be best to use. Then they'll pass that off to an interrogation team.
That team will make a strategy and decide whether it's best to negotiate with them a little bit, negotiating being used loosely here, or whether to involve some stress-and-duress kinds of tactics.
But the bottom line is, is the status is in question. Are they POWs, or are they, quote, unquote, "war crime -- criminals," and what does that mean? That's the big problem.
COOPER: And that, of course, is significant, because that determines how you can interact with them, how much stress you can put them under. There was an interesting article in "The L.A. Times" the other day about the -- when the military intelligence, the guy who headed Iraqi military intelligence, gave himself up, he had an intermediary basically negotiate his surrender.
And it -- pride was very important to him, and he negotiated what seat he was going to sit in the Humvee, whether it was going to be in the front seat or the back seat. Because he was a general, he felt this was important to maintain his honor.
So the people they bring in to talk to these people, to interrogate them, they got to be pretty sophisticated. They've got to, you know, pick up on things like that.
MCCANN: That's exactly right. And the bottom line is, is, by him negotiating, their actual negotiation, and what they negotiated for, could be telling as far as what strategy to use in the interrogation process. Bottom line is, is, the minute they start to interact, they start to give up information about themselves.
And of course, what we're trying to get, I mean, there's an incredible amount of information, not the least of which is terror links. Remember that both Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas were in Iraq.
I mean, just to know that they were, in fact, giving safe haven to those kinds of people, where Iraqi leadership is, what was the extent of the weapons of mass destruction program, what were the lines of communication with other foreign governments, that's the kind of thing that these men would be able to give them, not so much the tactical battlefield information that in, in the, you know, 7,000 POWs could give other interrogators.
COOPER: But, I mean, if they know where the bodies are buried, so to speak, that's information the U.S. very badly wants, but it -- will the U.S. negotiate for that kind of information?
MCCANN: Negotiating, again, being loosely termed. In other words, with these men, pride is key. So what you leave them with, in other words, is most important, not so much what you can take away. The exact opposite is true for a battlefield combatant, when you take away luxury, you take away comfort, you take away physical comfort. You might use physical pain.
With these men, it's the exact opposite. What are you going to leave them with after this is all over? That becomes the bargaining chip.
Now, to the extent that many of these people have, quote, unquote, "blood on their hands," that's the key. At what level do we say -- you and I spoke about this in Atlanta -- what -- who is -- at what level do you say his hands were bloody enough that we're going to prosecute? But this man, his hands were not, quote, unquote, "bloody enough," we'll let...
COOPER: Right.
MCCANN: ... him slide. Key stuff.
COOPER: Well, they also may be negotiating really for the safety of their families. They may say to themselves, You know what? My gig is up, my days are numbered, but, you know, maybe I can get something for my family, because a lot of them are obviously very concerned about the safety of their loved ones.
Kelly McCann, appreciate you joining us. Thanks.
MCCANN: My pleasure, Anderson.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Intelligence Hoped to be Obtained From Them>
