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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview with Richard Wolff

Aired May 10, 2003 - 07:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Colin Powell is on the way to the Middle East just a week after his last trip. And he's bringing his road map for peace with him. The secretary of state is trying to get the key players in the region to follow it. Does he stand a chance?
Let's see what "Newsweek"'s senior diplomatic different, Richard Wolff, has to say.

Richard, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

RICHARD WOLFF, SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "NEWSWEEK": Anderson, good morning.

COOPER: It's easy to make the argument that this thing has no chance. Try to make the counterargument. Why should anyone be optimistic?

WOLFF: OK, well, we always talk about the peace process, but there has been no process for the last two years, really. Anything that starts people down the path towards negotiation is a good thing. These people have not spoken for a long time. You have new leadership, at least on the Palestinian side. And there is cause for a small degree of optimism.

But as I say, just getting these two sides to sit down together and look at the -- what they call the new strategic environment in the region, that could be a good thing. It could open up new ideas.

COOPER: The question is, will they actually sit down together? I mean, Colin Powell is going to be meeting separately with Ariel Sharon, Mahmoud Abbas, as well as other officials. Who has to take the first step?

WOLFF: Well, if you look at the kind of language coming out of the Bush administration, it's really the Palestinians. That's not the same worldview as the Europeans and all the other allies in the war on terror who think that there should be some sort of reciprocal measure, and really that Israel has to do some things to reward the Palestinians for having a new leadership.

But first instance, for the Israelis and the Bush administration, it's security first, and that has to be delivered by the Palestinians.

COOPER: I'm not particularly shocked to hear that Europeans have a different view than the Bush administration. That, I think, we often pretty much predict.

WOLFF: Right.

COOPER: But, you know, you -- when you talk to Israeli officials and they say, Look, we want peace, but the Palestinians have got to start cracking down on the security problem, the -- and, you know, Mahmoud Abbas, the new prime minister of the -- for the Palestinians, says, you know, he says all the right things, he talks about...

WOLFF: Right.

COOPER: ... improving security. Can he actually deliver?

WOLFF: Yes, he can. He can deliver what the Israelis call 100 percent effort toward security. But peace processes are messy things. And one thing that the British prime minister, Tony Blair, keeps harking back to is the Northern Ireland peace process. But throughout the period where people have been talking about peace in Northern Ireland, there has been low levels of violence.

And the question is, are the Israelis prepared to live with low levels of violence? Because you're never really going to get 100 percent security.

COOPER: They say, though, they probably would as long as you -- I mean, the wording is very carefully calibrated. It's, you know, the 100 percent efforts. What is -- exactly does that mean? I mean, Mahmoud Abbas...

WOLFF: You know...

COOPER: ... what does he have to do?

WOLFF: It really isn't clear. What the Israelis say, or Israelis officials tell me, they say they'll know it when they see it. And unfortunately, that really isn't enough for the Palestinians, because they say, Well, we can make all these efforts, we'll round up these people. We can lock up the leaders of Hamas. But is that going to be enough for the Israelis?

And that's why Powell is out there saying to the Israelis, You have to make some concessions now, you have to ease life for the Palestinians now.

Now, Powell has been burnt before doing this. So they're trying to damp down expectations. But he's trying to get the Israelis to make some concessions now, before the Palestinians have that 100 percent effort.

COOPER: All right, he arrives there today. Big meetings are tomorrow. Rich Wolff, we'll continue watching. Thanks very much.

WOLFF: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired May 10, 2003 - 07:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Colin Powell is on the way to the Middle East just a week after his last trip. And he's bringing his road map for peace with him. The secretary of state is trying to get the key players in the region to follow it. Does he stand a chance?
Let's see what "Newsweek"'s senior diplomatic different, Richard Wolff, has to say.

Richard, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

RICHARD WOLFF, SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "NEWSWEEK": Anderson, good morning.

COOPER: It's easy to make the argument that this thing has no chance. Try to make the counterargument. Why should anyone be optimistic?

WOLFF: OK, well, we always talk about the peace process, but there has been no process for the last two years, really. Anything that starts people down the path towards negotiation is a good thing. These people have not spoken for a long time. You have new leadership, at least on the Palestinian side. And there is cause for a small degree of optimism.

But as I say, just getting these two sides to sit down together and look at the -- what they call the new strategic environment in the region, that could be a good thing. It could open up new ideas.

COOPER: The question is, will they actually sit down together? I mean, Colin Powell is going to be meeting separately with Ariel Sharon, Mahmoud Abbas, as well as other officials. Who has to take the first step?

WOLFF: Well, if you look at the kind of language coming out of the Bush administration, it's really the Palestinians. That's not the same worldview as the Europeans and all the other allies in the war on terror who think that there should be some sort of reciprocal measure, and really that Israel has to do some things to reward the Palestinians for having a new leadership.

But first instance, for the Israelis and the Bush administration, it's security first, and that has to be delivered by the Palestinians.

COOPER: I'm not particularly shocked to hear that Europeans have a different view than the Bush administration. That, I think, we often pretty much predict.

WOLFF: Right.

COOPER: But, you know, you -- when you talk to Israeli officials and they say, Look, we want peace, but the Palestinians have got to start cracking down on the security problem, the -- and, you know, Mahmoud Abbas, the new prime minister of the -- for the Palestinians, says, you know, he says all the right things, he talks about...

WOLFF: Right.

COOPER: ... improving security. Can he actually deliver?

WOLFF: Yes, he can. He can deliver what the Israelis call 100 percent effort toward security. But peace processes are messy things. And one thing that the British prime minister, Tony Blair, keeps harking back to is the Northern Ireland peace process. But throughout the period where people have been talking about peace in Northern Ireland, there has been low levels of violence.

And the question is, are the Israelis prepared to live with low levels of violence? Because you're never really going to get 100 percent security.

COOPER: They say, though, they probably would as long as you -- I mean, the wording is very carefully calibrated. It's, you know, the 100 percent efforts. What is -- exactly does that mean? I mean, Mahmoud Abbas...

WOLFF: You know...

COOPER: ... what does he have to do?

WOLFF: It really isn't clear. What the Israelis say, or Israelis officials tell me, they say they'll know it when they see it. And unfortunately, that really isn't enough for the Palestinians, because they say, Well, we can make all these efforts, we'll round up these people. We can lock up the leaders of Hamas. But is that going to be enough for the Israelis?

And that's why Powell is out there saying to the Israelis, You have to make some concessions now, you have to ease life for the Palestinians now.

Now, Powell has been burnt before doing this. So they're trying to damp down expectations. But he's trying to get the Israelis to make some concessions now, before the Palestinians have that 100 percent effort.

COOPER: All right, he arrives there today. Big meetings are tomorrow. Rich Wolff, we'll continue watching. Thanks very much.

WOLFF: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com