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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview With William Cohen
Aired May 10, 2003 - 09:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The war in Iraq is the topic, and former defense secretary William Cohen answers the questions in "The Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST, "THE NOVAK ZONE": Welcome to "The Novak Zone." I'm Robert Novak in downtown Washington, in the offices of the Cohen Group.
Our guest is William Cohen, former Republican senator from the state of Maine, and secretary of defense in the Democratic administration of President Bill Clinton.
Mr. Secretary, when George W. Bush ran for president, he talked about a hollow military. Is the military that won the war in Iraq then completely revised by this administration? Is it a different military than you left?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's actually the same military. And that's one of the reasons why I felt compelled to say something at the time, that this is no hollow military. We have the finest fighting force in the world. Truth of the matter was that, certainly with a smaller military force, we were stretched very thin. Bosnia, Kosovo, and now Afghanistan, now Iraq.
So it's not a hollow military, but we do need some assistance in either cutting down the number of missions, or increasing the number of people that we have to serve those missions.
NOVAK: The rush to Baghdad will go down in history, I think, as a great military accomplishment. Very few casualties. The resistance crumbled. Is that because the Iraqi resistance, the Iraqi army, was much weaker than a lot of people thought? Or was it the technology and training of the American forces?
COHEN: It was probably a combination of the two. You have to remember that, as a result of the Gulf War in '91, a substantial number of the Iraqi military were reduced, eliminated. So they had a much smaller force than they had in '91.
Secondly, by virtue of our training and our technology, we were able to, over a 12-year period, reduce even more substantially the military capability by enforcing the no-fly zones in the north and the south. So a combination of a smaller Iraqi military, coupled with the incredible technology and training and discipline that we have at our disposal, over that 12-year period, culminating with the attack, that three-week attack, which was really extraordinary in its implications for now and for the future, I think, is why we won.
COOPER: Mr. Secretary, your successor, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, has been in a fairly open contest with elements of the U.S. Army. He fired the secretary of the Army, he's been at odds with the chief of staff of the Army, the vice chief of staff has retired.
The defenders of Mr. Rumsfeld suggest that the Army is a -- and the people he is fighting with are a bunch of dinosaurs who don't understand the modern technology, they're too wedded to heavy artillery, heavy armor. Do you think that Mr. Rumsfeld -- do think that's a correct analysis?
COHEN: I think we need both. What was revealed during the Iraq campaign, short as it was, that we still needed heavy armor to go into Baghdad, that we still wanted that 3rd and then the 4th Infantry Division to make sure that we have a combination of the two.
So we want to emphasize the ability to have faster, more deployable, more agile forces with greater lethality. But you still have to have solid armor on the ground as well.
So you need a combination. But I think we're going to evolve and continue to evolve into a lighter force. And that the Army recognizes that, that they have to get smaller and lighter in the future.
COOPER: The tradition of a Republican serving in Democratic administrations in the defense post is honorable and it's old. Frank Knox, Henry Simpson, Douglas Dillon was secretary of the Treasury in the Kennedy administration. Was that an ambiguous situation for you, though, a lifelong Republican, Republican partisan, Republican serving in a Democratic administration?
COHEN: Well, I think it was surprising for the president to have asked me to serve in his cabinet. But I had an arrangement with him, an understanding, that under no circumstances would I ever be involved in any kind of political discussion or any partisan consideration being given to the defense department.
So under those conditions, it was an extraordinary opportunity for me. I to this day am grateful to President Bill Clinton for asking me to serve as the head of the finest military in the world. And it's one of the highlights of my life.
COOPER: And now the big question for William Cohen, former secretary of defense.
The generals tell me they are stretched too thin. You used the words stretched too thin, all the way from the Balkans, to the Far East, to the Middle East. But I am told that the present leadership of the Pentagon is talking about reducing the Army by two combat -- the equivalent of two combat divisions, of making it leaner and smaller.
Are these incompatible? The general feeling that things are too stretched, and the civilians wanting to make a further reduction?
COHEN: I think it depends on which forces you are looking at. We have what we call the low-density, high-demand forces. They tend to be the special forces. But those who are called upon by virtue of their fewer in number, and yet more and more in demand, that puts enormous stress upon them and their families.
And so I think you can make, certainly, adjustments, and depending upon which units you're looking at and which service you're looking at, you can certainly make some adjustments to take into account the need to modernize, to become lighter and more mobile and more agile.
So all of that I would certainly defer to Secretary Rumsfeld and to the deputy secretary to make those kinds of judgments and recommendation after significant input from the military services.
COOPER: William Cohen, thank you very much.
And thank you for being with us in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 10, 2003 - 09:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The war in Iraq is the topic, and former defense secretary William Cohen answers the questions in "The Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST, "THE NOVAK ZONE": Welcome to "The Novak Zone." I'm Robert Novak in downtown Washington, in the offices of the Cohen Group.
Our guest is William Cohen, former Republican senator from the state of Maine, and secretary of defense in the Democratic administration of President Bill Clinton.
Mr. Secretary, when George W. Bush ran for president, he talked about a hollow military. Is the military that won the war in Iraq then completely revised by this administration? Is it a different military than you left?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's actually the same military. And that's one of the reasons why I felt compelled to say something at the time, that this is no hollow military. We have the finest fighting force in the world. Truth of the matter was that, certainly with a smaller military force, we were stretched very thin. Bosnia, Kosovo, and now Afghanistan, now Iraq.
So it's not a hollow military, but we do need some assistance in either cutting down the number of missions, or increasing the number of people that we have to serve those missions.
NOVAK: The rush to Baghdad will go down in history, I think, as a great military accomplishment. Very few casualties. The resistance crumbled. Is that because the Iraqi resistance, the Iraqi army, was much weaker than a lot of people thought? Or was it the technology and training of the American forces?
COHEN: It was probably a combination of the two. You have to remember that, as a result of the Gulf War in '91, a substantial number of the Iraqi military were reduced, eliminated. So they had a much smaller force than they had in '91.
Secondly, by virtue of our training and our technology, we were able to, over a 12-year period, reduce even more substantially the military capability by enforcing the no-fly zones in the north and the south. So a combination of a smaller Iraqi military, coupled with the incredible technology and training and discipline that we have at our disposal, over that 12-year period, culminating with the attack, that three-week attack, which was really extraordinary in its implications for now and for the future, I think, is why we won.
COOPER: Mr. Secretary, your successor, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, has been in a fairly open contest with elements of the U.S. Army. He fired the secretary of the Army, he's been at odds with the chief of staff of the Army, the vice chief of staff has retired.
The defenders of Mr. Rumsfeld suggest that the Army is a -- and the people he is fighting with are a bunch of dinosaurs who don't understand the modern technology, they're too wedded to heavy artillery, heavy armor. Do you think that Mr. Rumsfeld -- do think that's a correct analysis?
COHEN: I think we need both. What was revealed during the Iraq campaign, short as it was, that we still needed heavy armor to go into Baghdad, that we still wanted that 3rd and then the 4th Infantry Division to make sure that we have a combination of the two.
So we want to emphasize the ability to have faster, more deployable, more agile forces with greater lethality. But you still have to have solid armor on the ground as well.
So you need a combination. But I think we're going to evolve and continue to evolve into a lighter force. And that the Army recognizes that, that they have to get smaller and lighter in the future.
COOPER: The tradition of a Republican serving in Democratic administrations in the defense post is honorable and it's old. Frank Knox, Henry Simpson, Douglas Dillon was secretary of the Treasury in the Kennedy administration. Was that an ambiguous situation for you, though, a lifelong Republican, Republican partisan, Republican serving in a Democratic administration?
COHEN: Well, I think it was surprising for the president to have asked me to serve in his cabinet. But I had an arrangement with him, an understanding, that under no circumstances would I ever be involved in any kind of political discussion or any partisan consideration being given to the defense department.
So under those conditions, it was an extraordinary opportunity for me. I to this day am grateful to President Bill Clinton for asking me to serve as the head of the finest military in the world. And it's one of the highlights of my life.
COOPER: And now the big question for William Cohen, former secretary of defense.
The generals tell me they are stretched too thin. You used the words stretched too thin, all the way from the Balkans, to the Far East, to the Middle East. But I am told that the present leadership of the Pentagon is talking about reducing the Army by two combat -- the equivalent of two combat divisions, of making it leaner and smaller.
Are these incompatible? The general feeling that things are too stretched, and the civilians wanting to make a further reduction?
COHEN: I think it depends on which forces you are looking at. We have what we call the low-density, high-demand forces. They tend to be the special forces. But those who are called upon by virtue of their fewer in number, and yet more and more in demand, that puts enormous stress upon them and their families.
And so I think you can make, certainly, adjustments, and depending upon which units you're looking at and which service you're looking at, you can certainly make some adjustments to take into account the need to modernize, to become lighter and more mobile and more agile.
So all of that I would certainly defer to Secretary Rumsfeld and to the deputy secretary to make those kinds of judgments and recommendation after significant input from the military services.
COOPER: William Cohen, thank you very much.
And thank you for being with us in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
