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CNN Saturday Morning News

The Novak Zone -- Interview With William F. Buckley

Aired June 14, 2003 - 09:28   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Tomorrow, as we all know, is Father's Day. So what better time than now for our Robert Novak to talk with the man that some call the father of conservatism?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."

I'm Robert Novak in downtown Washington, D.C., with William F. Buckley, the godfather of the modern American conservative movement, founder of "National Review" magazine, and dean of American syndicated columnists.

Mr. Buckley, you've written over 40 books. Your newest book, "Getting It Right," is a novel. And it's about the struggles in the conservative movement 40 years ago. Why a novel, and why not nonfiction?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR., AUTHOR, "GETTING IT RIGHT": There's nobody more interesting than Ayn Rand, the founder of the Objectivist Order. And she was pretty assertive in the late '50s. She figured that the conservatism that didn't embrace her point of view 100 percent was going to sort of die of malnutrition.

So she was urging her position on Goldwater, and then Robert Welsh, who figured out that everybody important was really a Communist, thought of the John Birch Society. And for a while, it was a pretty big deal.

In any case, I thought that the treatment of those people who were exact contemporaries would make for an interesting story. And I hope you think it was.

NOVAK: In "Getting It Right," Mr. Buckley, there are -- I think there are a lot more nonfictional characters than fictional characters. I just find all kinds of real-life characters floating through this fascinating story, including once, maybe twice, Bill Buckley, where you are a character in your own novel.

Is that something that's never happened before?

BUCKLEY: Once or twice in my novels, just for the fun of it. But a sentence in one of those theatrical businesses. But in this, I worked very hard, and I think successfully, to keep me as much out of it as was conceivable, but nothing that is done there is in any sense opportunistic. By which I mean, everything that Ayn Rand said is exactly as she said it, ditto Robert Welsh.

NOVAK: At the time of this novel, Mr. Buckley, the conservative movement had suffered a calamitous defeat in 1964 with the Goldwater candidacy. Did you ever dream that maybe 20 years, 30 years later, that the Republicans would be in both control -- I mean, control of both houses of Congress, and today would be in control of all three branches, House, Senate, and the White House?

BUCKLEY: Well, the answer is, no, I did not. But that really is a detail. What I was pretty sure of was that the demolition of Barry Goldwater in the election did not destroy the ideals he had.

NOVAK: Do you think the current turbulence on the right between the neoconservatives and the paleoconservatives and Pat Buchanan and the regular conservatives is a mere -- or brings back any of the internal fratricidal struggles that you mention in this novel, that you dwell on in this novel? Is there -- do you feel a deja vu there?

BUCKLEY: I do, in the sense, I think that there is an evolution in the thinking of some of the people and some of the institutions, especially in respect of the policy in Iraq and the sort of neo- Wilsonianism of Mr. Bush, which is getting stronger.

Whether the easy victory in Iraq will set it back substantially, I don't know. But my guess is that in 1964, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 2004, at the convention, they will have a voice. How they do their formulations, I can't predict.

NOVAK: And now, the big question for William Buckley.

Forty years after "Getting It Right," what should be the primary goal, the top priority, of the conservative movement?

BUCKLEY: Well, I think the top priority is to persuade young people that it is three-dimensional. There's been huge work done academically in that direction in history and in economics, and to a certain extent, in philosophy.

But the faculties are so overwhelmingly liberal that one thinks about, at least I do, and I wrote a book about this 52 years ago, as really the primary battlefield for conservative thought. Get in there, and let those 19-, 20-year-olds know that we're around and that our thought isn't as easily laughed away as their teachers would like.

NOVAK: Thank you, William Buckley.

BUCKLEY: Thank you, Mr. Novak.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 14, 2003 - 09:28   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Tomorrow, as we all know, is Father's Day. So what better time than now for our Robert Novak to talk with the man that some call the father of conservatism?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."

I'm Robert Novak in downtown Washington, D.C., with William F. Buckley, the godfather of the modern American conservative movement, founder of "National Review" magazine, and dean of American syndicated columnists.

Mr. Buckley, you've written over 40 books. Your newest book, "Getting It Right," is a novel. And it's about the struggles in the conservative movement 40 years ago. Why a novel, and why not nonfiction?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR., AUTHOR, "GETTING IT RIGHT": There's nobody more interesting than Ayn Rand, the founder of the Objectivist Order. And she was pretty assertive in the late '50s. She figured that the conservatism that didn't embrace her point of view 100 percent was going to sort of die of malnutrition.

So she was urging her position on Goldwater, and then Robert Welsh, who figured out that everybody important was really a Communist, thought of the John Birch Society. And for a while, it was a pretty big deal.

In any case, I thought that the treatment of those people who were exact contemporaries would make for an interesting story. And I hope you think it was.

NOVAK: In "Getting It Right," Mr. Buckley, there are -- I think there are a lot more nonfictional characters than fictional characters. I just find all kinds of real-life characters floating through this fascinating story, including once, maybe twice, Bill Buckley, where you are a character in your own novel.

Is that something that's never happened before?

BUCKLEY: Once or twice in my novels, just for the fun of it. But a sentence in one of those theatrical businesses. But in this, I worked very hard, and I think successfully, to keep me as much out of it as was conceivable, but nothing that is done there is in any sense opportunistic. By which I mean, everything that Ayn Rand said is exactly as she said it, ditto Robert Welsh.

NOVAK: At the time of this novel, Mr. Buckley, the conservative movement had suffered a calamitous defeat in 1964 with the Goldwater candidacy. Did you ever dream that maybe 20 years, 30 years later, that the Republicans would be in both control -- I mean, control of both houses of Congress, and today would be in control of all three branches, House, Senate, and the White House?

BUCKLEY: Well, the answer is, no, I did not. But that really is a detail. What I was pretty sure of was that the demolition of Barry Goldwater in the election did not destroy the ideals he had.

NOVAK: Do you think the current turbulence on the right between the neoconservatives and the paleoconservatives and Pat Buchanan and the regular conservatives is a mere -- or brings back any of the internal fratricidal struggles that you mention in this novel, that you dwell on in this novel? Is there -- do you feel a deja vu there?

BUCKLEY: I do, in the sense, I think that there is an evolution in the thinking of some of the people and some of the institutions, especially in respect of the policy in Iraq and the sort of neo- Wilsonianism of Mr. Bush, which is getting stronger.

Whether the easy victory in Iraq will set it back substantially, I don't know. But my guess is that in 1964, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 2004, at the convention, they will have a voice. How they do their formulations, I can't predict.

NOVAK: And now, the big question for William Buckley.

Forty years after "Getting It Right," what should be the primary goal, the top priority, of the conservative movement?

BUCKLEY: Well, I think the top priority is to persuade young people that it is three-dimensional. There's been huge work done academically in that direction in history and in economics, and to a certain extent, in philosophy.

But the faculties are so overwhelmingly liberal that one thinks about, at least I do, and I wrote a book about this 52 years ago, as really the primary battlefield for conservative thought. Get in there, and let those 19-, 20-year-olds know that we're around and that our thought isn't as easily laughed away as their teachers would like.

NOVAK: Thank you, William Buckley.

BUCKLEY: Thank you, Mr. Novak.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com