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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Eric Haney

Aired July 19, 2003 - 09:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As the troops await a rotation announcement, they continue to do their duty in Iraq. Reports persist that morale is declining, though. And troops have been told not to speak about their frustrations, and there's been talk of punishment for those who air grievances. With us this morning to talk about all this is retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney.
Thanks so much for being with us.

SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Sure.

COLLINS: Let's go ahead and start with that because I think, for some people who may not be familiar with military operations, we talk about insubordination, which is an entirely different thing, as opposed to just kind of griping in the field.

HANEY: Normal griping and fussing, yes. Certainly...

COLLINS: Explain that for us.

HANEY: Well, all soldiers are forbidden to speak disparagingly about their chain of command, and that's ranging from the president right down through to their company commander and their platoon leader, the officer chain of command and the civilians in the chain.

There's a difference between speaking disparagingly about those people and just the normal fussing and griping that soldiers in the field always do.

COLLINS: Like what? Oh, I hate this, it's too hot, that kind of...

HANEY: The food is rotten. It's too hot. I don't know when I'm coming home. I don't like this place. I don't like what we're doing. Any of that. That's a soldier's right, and it has been since the first time we organized human beings in groups of twos and threes and said we're going to go out and commit war on one another.

COLLINS: So why is it different this time? Why -- it seems to me that it's really something that a lot of people are talking about. Is it something that the media has created?

HANEY: No, the media hasn't created it. It's just the fact that the media has access to the private soldiers, those junior soldiers now, which they haven't had since Vietnam. Think of this. If you'll look back on the first Gulf War, as far as the media and the nation is concerned, that war was fought by four or five general officers. You never saw a private. You never saw a sergeant. You never saw those masses of those troops that were out there on the ground.

That access was unprecedented during this recent war. The reporters were there with them. Large numbers are still there. And, as the mission changes, the focus changes, the troops have more time on their hands to think, and it becomes less and less certain what they're doing.

The reporters are just reporting normal soldier talk.

COLLINS: OK. So this is not something that is different in this particular conflict versus other conflicts that the Americans have been involved in?

HANEY: Oh, not even conflict. Just normal day-to-day training. When these troops in the 3rd Infantry Division rotate out to the desert to Fort Irwin, it's the same conversation. It goes on and on and on all the time.

I think, though -- here's what I'm afraid will happen, and I would hope the Army doesn't do it, is if they overreact because of the embarrassment of it and they really want -- someone decides to punish some junior soldiers. That will be counterproductive. That will create a morale problem.

There's a difference between insubordination, speaking disparagingly, and just normal soldier talk, and that has to be differentiated by the chain of command. Most of those commanders are smart enough to understand that.

The trouble comes if the White House becomes embarrassed or the secretary of defense becomes embarrassed and they crack down on the general officers and things overreact.

COLLINS: So why is morale low, or is it really even low? I guess that would be the overall question, if we can't really determine, you know, what this griping is.

HANEY: I...

COLLINS: Is it really low?

HANEY: I don't know, because I'm not there, but, if you're there, you can feel it. Morale is one of the three indicators of discipline. Those -- of leadership. Morale, discipline, and esprit de corps.

Look at it. Are the men still doing their job? Are they still doing it at a high level? Do they enjoy one another? Do they take pride in the organization? Those answers are probably yes.

But, if there's a bit of a morale problem, it's up to the chain of command to fix it because the chain of command creates it.

COLLINS: What do you tell the people at home -- the wives, the kids, the little boy that we just saw? How do you get them through this as far as making it through this rotation that has been in their minds -- because whenever you send a loved one overseas, it's longer than you think?

HANEY: Well, there are support groups that are organized within those military units back home, and it's really incumbent upon the wives of those senior soldiers, the professional soldiers to take an interest, make sure there's an interest in the families of the junior soldiers.

Remember there's a great difference in perception between those young men on their first tour of duty, their first enlistment, and the ones who have elected to become professional soldiers. So the wives of the commanders, the wives of those senior NCOs pay attention, do what they can, organize.

And they do this. They do this, but it's..

COLLINS: The Officers Wives Club?

HANEY: Officers Wives Club. NCO Wives club. And just the organizations, the companies and battalions themselves, organize themselves to get the word out.

And information is more important than anything. Just tell them something. Tell them -- give them information. And when you know something for real, say it and kill rumors. Rumors are the worst thing in the world for moral.

COLLINS: All right. Absolutely. That is certainly true.

We also want to remind everybody you are the author of "Inside Delta Force."

HANEY: That's correct.

COLLINS: A great book. We certainly appreciate you being here with us this morning.

Sergeant Major Eric Haney.

HANEY: Certainly. Thanks so much.

COLLINS: Thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 19, 2003 - 09:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As the troops await a rotation announcement, they continue to do their duty in Iraq. Reports persist that morale is declining, though. And troops have been told not to speak about their frustrations, and there's been talk of punishment for those who air grievances. With us this morning to talk about all this is retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney.
Thanks so much for being with us.

SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Sure.

COLLINS: Let's go ahead and start with that because I think, for some people who may not be familiar with military operations, we talk about insubordination, which is an entirely different thing, as opposed to just kind of griping in the field.

HANEY: Normal griping and fussing, yes. Certainly...

COLLINS: Explain that for us.

HANEY: Well, all soldiers are forbidden to speak disparagingly about their chain of command, and that's ranging from the president right down through to their company commander and their platoon leader, the officer chain of command and the civilians in the chain.

There's a difference between speaking disparagingly about those people and just the normal fussing and griping that soldiers in the field always do.

COLLINS: Like what? Oh, I hate this, it's too hot, that kind of...

HANEY: The food is rotten. It's too hot. I don't know when I'm coming home. I don't like this place. I don't like what we're doing. Any of that. That's a soldier's right, and it has been since the first time we organized human beings in groups of twos and threes and said we're going to go out and commit war on one another.

COLLINS: So why is it different this time? Why -- it seems to me that it's really something that a lot of people are talking about. Is it something that the media has created?

HANEY: No, the media hasn't created it. It's just the fact that the media has access to the private soldiers, those junior soldiers now, which they haven't had since Vietnam. Think of this. If you'll look back on the first Gulf War, as far as the media and the nation is concerned, that war was fought by four or five general officers. You never saw a private. You never saw a sergeant. You never saw those masses of those troops that were out there on the ground.

That access was unprecedented during this recent war. The reporters were there with them. Large numbers are still there. And, as the mission changes, the focus changes, the troops have more time on their hands to think, and it becomes less and less certain what they're doing.

The reporters are just reporting normal soldier talk.

COLLINS: OK. So this is not something that is different in this particular conflict versus other conflicts that the Americans have been involved in?

HANEY: Oh, not even conflict. Just normal day-to-day training. When these troops in the 3rd Infantry Division rotate out to the desert to Fort Irwin, it's the same conversation. It goes on and on and on all the time.

I think, though -- here's what I'm afraid will happen, and I would hope the Army doesn't do it, is if they overreact because of the embarrassment of it and they really want -- someone decides to punish some junior soldiers. That will be counterproductive. That will create a morale problem.

There's a difference between insubordination, speaking disparagingly, and just normal soldier talk, and that has to be differentiated by the chain of command. Most of those commanders are smart enough to understand that.

The trouble comes if the White House becomes embarrassed or the secretary of defense becomes embarrassed and they crack down on the general officers and things overreact.

COLLINS: So why is morale low, or is it really even low? I guess that would be the overall question, if we can't really determine, you know, what this griping is.

HANEY: I...

COLLINS: Is it really low?

HANEY: I don't know, because I'm not there, but, if you're there, you can feel it. Morale is one of the three indicators of discipline. Those -- of leadership. Morale, discipline, and esprit de corps.

Look at it. Are the men still doing their job? Are they still doing it at a high level? Do they enjoy one another? Do they take pride in the organization? Those answers are probably yes.

But, if there's a bit of a morale problem, it's up to the chain of command to fix it because the chain of command creates it.

COLLINS: What do you tell the people at home -- the wives, the kids, the little boy that we just saw? How do you get them through this as far as making it through this rotation that has been in their minds -- because whenever you send a loved one overseas, it's longer than you think?

HANEY: Well, there are support groups that are organized within those military units back home, and it's really incumbent upon the wives of those senior soldiers, the professional soldiers to take an interest, make sure there's an interest in the families of the junior soldiers.

Remember there's a great difference in perception between those young men on their first tour of duty, their first enlistment, and the ones who have elected to become professional soldiers. So the wives of the commanders, the wives of those senior NCOs pay attention, do what they can, organize.

And they do this. They do this, but it's..

COLLINS: The Officers Wives Club?

HANEY: Officers Wives Club. NCO Wives club. And just the organizations, the companies and battalions themselves, organize themselves to get the word out.

And information is more important than anything. Just tell them something. Tell them -- give them information. And when you know something for real, say it and kill rumors. Rumors are the worst thing in the world for moral.

COLLINS: All right. Absolutely. That is certainly true.

We also want to remind everybody you are the author of "Inside Delta Force."

HANEY: That's correct.

COLLINS: A great book. We certainly appreciate you being here with us this morning.

Sergeant Major Eric Haney.

HANEY: Certainly. Thanks so much.

COLLINS: Thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com