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CNN Saturday Morning News
Intervie with Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, Nelda Blair
Aired August 02, 2003 - 08:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In California, in Newport Beach, police confirmed that paramedics assisted a female at Kobe Bryant's home on July the 3rd. The time is between his encounter with a Colorado woman and his surrender on a sexual assault charge. There is no word on who the paramedics assisted at Bryant's home. The L.A. Lakers guard will appear in court next Wednesday regarding the sexual assault charge, which is now pending against him.
Well, time to talk some legal matters right now. On our docket, the Kobe Bryant case. That just keeps making headlines. And one state which has a new law redefining when no means no in the bedroom. Plus, a patient gets fed up waiting for his doctor.
So let's head to the court.
Let's talk about these legal moves with Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Washington. She's in Washington.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.
VAUSE: And a civil rights attorney. And former prosecutor Nelda Blair. She joins us from Houston.
Ladies, let's just start by asking about this new law which basically says no means no at any time during the act of sex.
So, what's the deal with this? Why was this law necessary?
Let's start with Nelda, actually, as a prosecutor.
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it was necessary because there were some juries, evidently, that were unable to decide for sure whether or not a woman could say no after intercourse had started. And this law defines it to say a woman can say no at any time, and that's the way I think it ought to be.
VAUSE: Lida, is this a good thing or not, because there is some concern, from defense attorneys particularly, that this could raise the specter of frivolous accusations of rape.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. Nobody can argue that a law that says no means no during sex is a good law. Absolutely a good idea. But we already assumed that no meant no in the law, and the fact that you have to put it now in writing may raise two specters that are really troubling. The first is false accusations made by people who think it's easier to now accuse people of rape, but also, more importantly, it forgets that the majority of rape in this country and in the world has nothing to do with consensual sex gone awry. It has to do with violence and the use of sex as a weapon, just like a gun, just like a knife, to abuse women.
The other problem with this is that what we're talking about when we talk about acquaintance rape, which is the rape that would most likely be affected by this, 77 percent of the men and over 55 percent of the women involved in acquaintance rape are either on drugs or alcohol. So what are we going to do with those cases when consent is hard to define and more difficult to assess when people are impaired?
I think we're sending the wrong message. Consensual sex gone awry is not what we're talking about when we talk about rape. When we talk about rape, we're talking about abuse, we're talking about the abuse of power.
VAUSE: Yes, and this obviously stemmed from that California case.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Right.
VAUSE: And I want to read something to Nelda about, something that was written at the "Orlando Sentinel" last month by Kathleen Parker. She said, "You don't take a boy to bed and then say no. The defendant in that case in California wasn't guilty of rape. He was guilty of being male."
BLAIR: I completely disagree with that. That's like saying that a boy or a girl can, has, does not have the power to stop once they're started. That's just against human nature because any woman that even begins to have sex with a man should have the right to say stop at any time. So you're saying that once she starts, she has to finish? I think that's not right at all.
And I disagree completely that it's going to make a big difference whether or not it's consensual or whether it's rape where you were nabbed in an alley somewhere. If you're forced to have sex, if both people are not saying yes, it is not consensual. And non- consensual sex is rape.
VAUSE: OK, let's go on to our next topic. Now, this one will obviously strike a chord with a lot of people. It's a case in Las Vegas where the guy turned up to the doctor. He waited for hours. He was in pain. He went away. He tried to sue the guy for $5,000. He got $250 in return for his suffering.
But what precedent does this set, Nelda?
BLAIR: I've been in that doctor's office. I've been just as frustrated as that man. I haven't sued, but I congratulate him for doing so. Let me put -- let me say this. And I have said this before. As a lawyer, if you sat in my office for four hours waiting on me, I promise you you would fire me. You would not be my client anymore. Doctors are no different professionals.
VAUSE: OK...
BLAIR: They, we deserve no less respect.
VAUSE: Lida, what's your take on this?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this is the patient who lost patience. I, you know, he has a constitutional right to sue, of course. But, you know, let's not reward him by putting him on television. You know, people ought to learn that professionals are busy and in my understanding in this case, this man wanted to go away on a vacation. The doctor fit him in at the last minute to do him a favor. So why the heck is he now suing? That...
VAUSE: Oh, come on, we've all been there.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: ... this is ungratefulness.
VAUSE: I want to sue the cable guy. I want to sue the plumber. I want to sue all those people that make me wait.
Let's go to the next topic. This is a very sad story that we want to finish on, the hoax that happened this week when that woman claimed to be that missing girl. I want to know, has this, Lida, has this woman got any defense at all?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, I'm sure she's going to come up with a defense, maybe insanity, maybe something else. But, you know what's troubling about this case is how she got her information. She got it off the Internet. And, you know, we privacy specialists and people who worry about the civil liberties protections of individuals really are focused on this one because we have to worry about what information we put on the Internet and the access that people have to steal other people's identities and to misuse information on the Internet.
This is a tragic story, a lot of lessons here.
VAUSE: Nelda, would you throw the book at her? What would you go after?
BLAIR: Oh, well, I would try to, but that's the biggest problem, though. She really hasn't asked the family for money. She hasn't assaulted the family. So it's very difficult to charge her with anything that's going to have punishment that she deserves, because it is absolutely inhumane what she's done.
VAUSE: Any good coming from this? She, I mean we've already heard from her defense attorney, saying that, you know, she gave a great deal of publicity to this case and maybe they'll find the missing girl.
Is that realistic?
BLAIR: Well, the girl's been missing for 17 years...
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Oh, give me a break.
VAUSE: Yes, give me a break. Yes? Give me a break?
BLAIR: Yes. Yes, that's -- so she did them a favor? I think not.
VAUSE: Yes, OK, Lida Rodriguez there in Washington, a civil rights attorney; Nelda Blair there in Houston, a former prosecutor, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for your insights this morning on CNN.
BLAIR: Good to be here.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 2, 2003 - 08:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In California, in Newport Beach, police confirmed that paramedics assisted a female at Kobe Bryant's home on July the 3rd. The time is between his encounter with a Colorado woman and his surrender on a sexual assault charge. There is no word on who the paramedics assisted at Bryant's home. The L.A. Lakers guard will appear in court next Wednesday regarding the sexual assault charge, which is now pending against him.
Well, time to talk some legal matters right now. On our docket, the Kobe Bryant case. That just keeps making headlines. And one state which has a new law redefining when no means no in the bedroom. Plus, a patient gets fed up waiting for his doctor.
So let's head to the court.
Let's talk about these legal moves with Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Washington. She's in Washington.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.
VAUSE: And a civil rights attorney. And former prosecutor Nelda Blair. She joins us from Houston.
Ladies, let's just start by asking about this new law which basically says no means no at any time during the act of sex.
So, what's the deal with this? Why was this law necessary?
Let's start with Nelda, actually, as a prosecutor.
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it was necessary because there were some juries, evidently, that were unable to decide for sure whether or not a woman could say no after intercourse had started. And this law defines it to say a woman can say no at any time, and that's the way I think it ought to be.
VAUSE: Lida, is this a good thing or not, because there is some concern, from defense attorneys particularly, that this could raise the specter of frivolous accusations of rape.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. Nobody can argue that a law that says no means no during sex is a good law. Absolutely a good idea. But we already assumed that no meant no in the law, and the fact that you have to put it now in writing may raise two specters that are really troubling. The first is false accusations made by people who think it's easier to now accuse people of rape, but also, more importantly, it forgets that the majority of rape in this country and in the world has nothing to do with consensual sex gone awry. It has to do with violence and the use of sex as a weapon, just like a gun, just like a knife, to abuse women.
The other problem with this is that what we're talking about when we talk about acquaintance rape, which is the rape that would most likely be affected by this, 77 percent of the men and over 55 percent of the women involved in acquaintance rape are either on drugs or alcohol. So what are we going to do with those cases when consent is hard to define and more difficult to assess when people are impaired?
I think we're sending the wrong message. Consensual sex gone awry is not what we're talking about when we talk about rape. When we talk about rape, we're talking about abuse, we're talking about the abuse of power.
VAUSE: Yes, and this obviously stemmed from that California case.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Right.
VAUSE: And I want to read something to Nelda about, something that was written at the "Orlando Sentinel" last month by Kathleen Parker. She said, "You don't take a boy to bed and then say no. The defendant in that case in California wasn't guilty of rape. He was guilty of being male."
BLAIR: I completely disagree with that. That's like saying that a boy or a girl can, has, does not have the power to stop once they're started. That's just against human nature because any woman that even begins to have sex with a man should have the right to say stop at any time. So you're saying that once she starts, she has to finish? I think that's not right at all.
And I disagree completely that it's going to make a big difference whether or not it's consensual or whether it's rape where you were nabbed in an alley somewhere. If you're forced to have sex, if both people are not saying yes, it is not consensual. And non- consensual sex is rape.
VAUSE: OK, let's go on to our next topic. Now, this one will obviously strike a chord with a lot of people. It's a case in Las Vegas where the guy turned up to the doctor. He waited for hours. He was in pain. He went away. He tried to sue the guy for $5,000. He got $250 in return for his suffering.
But what precedent does this set, Nelda?
BLAIR: I've been in that doctor's office. I've been just as frustrated as that man. I haven't sued, but I congratulate him for doing so. Let me put -- let me say this. And I have said this before. As a lawyer, if you sat in my office for four hours waiting on me, I promise you you would fire me. You would not be my client anymore. Doctors are no different professionals.
VAUSE: OK...
BLAIR: They, we deserve no less respect.
VAUSE: Lida, what's your take on this?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this is the patient who lost patience. I, you know, he has a constitutional right to sue, of course. But, you know, let's not reward him by putting him on television. You know, people ought to learn that professionals are busy and in my understanding in this case, this man wanted to go away on a vacation. The doctor fit him in at the last minute to do him a favor. So why the heck is he now suing? That...
VAUSE: Oh, come on, we've all been there.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: ... this is ungratefulness.
VAUSE: I want to sue the cable guy. I want to sue the plumber. I want to sue all those people that make me wait.
Let's go to the next topic. This is a very sad story that we want to finish on, the hoax that happened this week when that woman claimed to be that missing girl. I want to know, has this, Lida, has this woman got any defense at all?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, I'm sure she's going to come up with a defense, maybe insanity, maybe something else. But, you know what's troubling about this case is how she got her information. She got it off the Internet. And, you know, we privacy specialists and people who worry about the civil liberties protections of individuals really are focused on this one because we have to worry about what information we put on the Internet and the access that people have to steal other people's identities and to misuse information on the Internet.
This is a tragic story, a lot of lessons here.
VAUSE: Nelda, would you throw the book at her? What would you go after?
BLAIR: Oh, well, I would try to, but that's the biggest problem, though. She really hasn't asked the family for money. She hasn't assaulted the family. So it's very difficult to charge her with anything that's going to have punishment that she deserves, because it is absolutely inhumane what she's done.
VAUSE: Any good coming from this? She, I mean we've already heard from her defense attorney, saying that, you know, she gave a great deal of publicity to this case and maybe they'll find the missing girl.
Is that realistic?
BLAIR: Well, the girl's been missing for 17 years...
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Oh, give me a break.
VAUSE: Yes, give me a break. Yes? Give me a break?
BLAIR: Yes. Yes, that's -- so she did them a favor? I think not.
VAUSE: Yes, OK, Lida Rodriguez there in Washington, a civil rights attorney; Nelda Blair there in Houston, a former prosecutor, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for your insights this morning on CNN.
BLAIR: Good to be here.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
