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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview with John Callenger

Aired August 09, 2003 - 09:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This administration has declared war on the middle class in this country, 83,000 jobs have been lost a month. This president is the Houdini of economics, 3 million jobs have disappeared. He's got the worst record since Herbert Hoover. He's got to go for us to get jobs back in this country.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're starting to see results from our actions. My administration's economists believe that if we had not passed tax relief, our unemployment rate would have been nearly 1 percentage point higher, and as many as 1.5 million Americans would not have the jobs they have today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: OK, a couple of different viewpoints. Well, here are the numbers. Last year, nearly 1.5 million people lost their jobs, so far this year, more than 715,000 have gotten their pink slips.

The job market is a hot topic in political circles. Today we'll focus on one aspect. American white-collar workers are seeing many of their jobs disappearing to cheaper overseas markets, just as blue- collar workers have seen for years.

To learn more about this, we are now going to Chicago to talk with John Challenger of the outplacement company Challenger, Gray, and Christmas.

Good morning. Thanks for joining us here this morning.

JOHN CHALLENGER, CHALLENGER, GRAY, AND CHRISTMAS: Good morning, Sean.

CALLEBS: Is it as bad as we think it is? Is this really keeping the brakes on any kind of economic recovery here in the U.S.?

CHALLENGER: Well, certainly jobs are moving overseas. We're moving into a global economy. And that's going to mean more interrelation between our economies on many fronts, and the labor front is just one of them.

CALLEBS: OK, we have some numbers (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I want to go to. This comes from the Department of Labor and Forrester Research, about the number of jobs gone. Look at this. In 2000, no management jobs moving offshore, 2005, estimate 37,400 and 77,000, it goes on through sales, those numbers up dramatically, business, sixfold increase, computer, five times increase, more than 108,000 coming up, total, 500,000 jobs.

What does this spell out for our future? Are a lot of these good jobs that have kept people in the middle class here in the U.S. for so many years simply going to be a thing of the past?

CHALLENGER: Well, there's been three ways of fear about job loss. Back in the early '90s, we thought that middle management was going to disappear almost completely as companies delayered. In the late '90s, it was that the old economy was going to be displaced by the new economy. We weren't going to see those kind of jobs. Now it is the fear of globalization.

We live in an era where there's a lot of job insecurity. You can't go to work for any one company, stay there all your life any more. So of course, white-collar jobs, skilled jobs, just as there are unskilled jobs, are going to move overseas.

CALLEBS: And John, I think we should point out, one reason jobs are going overseas, it's a lot cheaper. Take a look at these jobs gone. Over the next 15 years, U.S. employers will move about 3.3 million jobs overseas. That is draining the economy of some $136 billion in wages. How can you fight this? If companies are trying to make money, why not go overseas and pay a lot less.

CHALLENGER: There are states that are enacting laws, especially when there are government contracts that are involved, to buy American. This is just a buy-American campaign that doesn't relate to autos, like we saw in the '80s. This is more about skilled jobs and tech jobs.

CALLEBS: And to build on that, we have another one, the jobs that are going to India. This is rather remarkable as well. JPMorganChase expects to have 40 research analysts there by 2003. Deloitt (ph), 1,000 employees in India as well, Hewlett-Packard 5,000, Oracle. I mean, these are blue-chip companies. These are some of the best companies in the U.S. in terms of what the future economy is going to be built on.

CHALLENGER: These are global companies as well. And as these jobs do move overseas, we're going to see those economies -- say India and China and the Philippines -- these are some of our biggest trading partners over the next 10 years. The demand there is going to heat up as the economies do, and that's going to also bring jobs back and wealth back to this country.

So it's a mixed story.

CALLEBS: OK, John, you've gone through school, you've finished your MBA, you're getting out, you want a great job. Take a look at this number. The -- in the United States, MBA's going to make $100,000 a year with three years experience, India $12,000 a year. Programmer, $60K, over in India, $5,000. What can be done? You've talked about some states are trying to enact some kind of legislation. But common sense dictates, in a global world, do what you can.

CHALLENGER: You know, this is a tide that's going to be hard to stop. We're not going to see any kind of real slowdown in the globalization of the economy. The world's getting smaller. So the best thing that any individual can do is go out, constantly upgrade their education, prove themselves, build the kind of productivity and output that make them invaluable to companies.

A lot of work is going to be in-person work here in this country, and certainly the more Americans who have international skills, the better.

CALLEBS: OK. Something we're going to keep focused on for the future. John Challenger with Challenger, Gray, and Christmas, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

CHALLENGER: Thank you, Sean.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 9, 2003 - 09:08   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This administration has declared war on the middle class in this country, 83,000 jobs have been lost a month. This president is the Houdini of economics, 3 million jobs have disappeared. He's got the worst record since Herbert Hoover. He's got to go for us to get jobs back in this country.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're starting to see results from our actions. My administration's economists believe that if we had not passed tax relief, our unemployment rate would have been nearly 1 percentage point higher, and as many as 1.5 million Americans would not have the jobs they have today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: OK, a couple of different viewpoints. Well, here are the numbers. Last year, nearly 1.5 million people lost their jobs, so far this year, more than 715,000 have gotten their pink slips.

The job market is a hot topic in political circles. Today we'll focus on one aspect. American white-collar workers are seeing many of their jobs disappearing to cheaper overseas markets, just as blue- collar workers have seen for years.

To learn more about this, we are now going to Chicago to talk with John Challenger of the outplacement company Challenger, Gray, and Christmas.

Good morning. Thanks for joining us here this morning.

JOHN CHALLENGER, CHALLENGER, GRAY, AND CHRISTMAS: Good morning, Sean.

CALLEBS: Is it as bad as we think it is? Is this really keeping the brakes on any kind of economic recovery here in the U.S.?

CHALLENGER: Well, certainly jobs are moving overseas. We're moving into a global economy. And that's going to mean more interrelation between our economies on many fronts, and the labor front is just one of them.

CALLEBS: OK, we have some numbers (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I want to go to. This comes from the Department of Labor and Forrester Research, about the number of jobs gone. Look at this. In 2000, no management jobs moving offshore, 2005, estimate 37,400 and 77,000, it goes on through sales, those numbers up dramatically, business, sixfold increase, computer, five times increase, more than 108,000 coming up, total, 500,000 jobs.

What does this spell out for our future? Are a lot of these good jobs that have kept people in the middle class here in the U.S. for so many years simply going to be a thing of the past?

CHALLENGER: Well, there's been three ways of fear about job loss. Back in the early '90s, we thought that middle management was going to disappear almost completely as companies delayered. In the late '90s, it was that the old economy was going to be displaced by the new economy. We weren't going to see those kind of jobs. Now it is the fear of globalization.

We live in an era where there's a lot of job insecurity. You can't go to work for any one company, stay there all your life any more. So of course, white-collar jobs, skilled jobs, just as there are unskilled jobs, are going to move overseas.

CALLEBS: And John, I think we should point out, one reason jobs are going overseas, it's a lot cheaper. Take a look at these jobs gone. Over the next 15 years, U.S. employers will move about 3.3 million jobs overseas. That is draining the economy of some $136 billion in wages. How can you fight this? If companies are trying to make money, why not go overseas and pay a lot less.

CHALLENGER: There are states that are enacting laws, especially when there are government contracts that are involved, to buy American. This is just a buy-American campaign that doesn't relate to autos, like we saw in the '80s. This is more about skilled jobs and tech jobs.

CALLEBS: And to build on that, we have another one, the jobs that are going to India. This is rather remarkable as well. JPMorganChase expects to have 40 research analysts there by 2003. Deloitt (ph), 1,000 employees in India as well, Hewlett-Packard 5,000, Oracle. I mean, these are blue-chip companies. These are some of the best companies in the U.S. in terms of what the future economy is going to be built on.

CHALLENGER: These are global companies as well. And as these jobs do move overseas, we're going to see those economies -- say India and China and the Philippines -- these are some of our biggest trading partners over the next 10 years. The demand there is going to heat up as the economies do, and that's going to also bring jobs back and wealth back to this country.

So it's a mixed story.

CALLEBS: OK, John, you've gone through school, you've finished your MBA, you're getting out, you want a great job. Take a look at this number. The -- in the United States, MBA's going to make $100,000 a year with three years experience, India $12,000 a year. Programmer, $60K, over in India, $5,000. What can be done? You've talked about some states are trying to enact some kind of legislation. But common sense dictates, in a global world, do what you can.

CHALLENGER: You know, this is a tide that's going to be hard to stop. We're not going to see any kind of real slowdown in the globalization of the economy. The world's getting smaller. So the best thing that any individual can do is go out, constantly upgrade their education, prove themselves, build the kind of productivity and output that make them invaluable to companies.

A lot of work is going to be in-person work here in this country, and certainly the more Americans who have international skills, the better.

CALLEBS: OK. Something we're going to keep focused on for the future. John Challenger with Challenger, Gray, and Christmas, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

CHALLENGER: Thank you, Sean.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com