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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Joshua Hammer
Aired September 06, 2003 - 09:46 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the uncertainty over the U.S.- backed Mideast peace plan increased today with the resignation of Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas. Abbas has had differences with the Palestinian Authority leader, Yasser Arafat, and Arafat's -- and the government was facing a no-confidence vote.
Joining us now from Jerusalem to talk about the ramifications of Abbas's decision to step down is "Newsweek"'s Jerusalem bureau chief, Joshua Hammer.
Joshua, again, thanks for joining us.
Information still coming in at this point. Clearly Abbas is the man that the United States wanted to lead the Palestinians. What does this do to the U.S.-led peace plan?
JOSHUA HAMMER, JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: Well, the U.S.-led peace plan was pretty much chalked off as dead on arrival from the beginning by many people. There was a brief period of hope, but that faded rapidly.
I think it's now being seen, once again, as moribund. Clearly, there's no bargaining. There's nobody to do business with at the Palestinian Authority. Well, in fact, there is somebody to do business with. I take that back. Yasser Arafat is the man to do business with. The problem is, the United States won't do business with him, and neither will Israel, so...
CALLEBS: Exactly, Joshua. That's one thing...
HAMMER: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a vacuum right now.
CALLEBS: Israel has already come out this morning and said it will not talk with Arafat. The U.S. has repeatedly said in the past it will not. At what point is the hand forced, that if they're not going to talk with Arafat, then they're either going to have to talk with somebody that he hand picks, or something of that nature?
HAMMER: Well, you already saw a slight acknowledgment a couple of weeks ago, after the Hamas bus bombing in Jerusalem, a slight acknowledgment of Arafat's power, when Colin Powell made an appeal, public appeal, to the Palestinian leader, asking him to intervene to get another ceasefire, another hudna.
There's a certain division in Washington. I'm in Jerusalem. But I'm a little bit distant from it.
But it's clear that there's this division between those who believe and understand that Arafat essentially wields power, has continued to wield power, has never stopped wielding power in the Palestinian society, and those who just simply refuse to believe, to accept him, who see him as a force of destruction, foster of terrorism, and want to hand pick and control the leadership or create their own leadership...
CALLEBS: Now, Mahmoud Abbas...
HAMMER: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has not worked.
CALLEBS: ... from the very start, Mahmoud Abbas made it clear he didn't want to be a figurehead. But was he ever elevated to anything more than a figurehead?
HAMMER: I think Mahmoud Abbas had some credibility at the very beginning. There was -- if you remember, in June, when he was elevated to the Aqaba summit, stood there with Ariel Sharon and George Bush, and shortly afterwards managed to achieve a ceasefire with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- with the armed groups, and brought a certain amount of what was called a hudna, meaning ceasefire, holiday, in both Israel and, to some extent, in Palestinian Authority.
There was a marked improvement in conditions for a few weeks there. And Mahmoud Abbas enjoyed the fruits of that improvement. But now, of course, you've seen a steadily -- steady erosion ever since.
CALLEBS: OK, Joshua Hammer, thanks very much for joining us. And clearly, the missile strike in Gaza City this morning going to further complicate matters in the Middle East.
And you have a book, "Season in Bethlehem." It comes out when?
HAMMER: Comes out in about two weeks.
CALLEBS: OK. Joshua Hammer, again, thanks for joining us, and your insight on the Middle East.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 6, 2003 - 09:46 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the uncertainty over the U.S.- backed Mideast peace plan increased today with the resignation of Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas. Abbas has had differences with the Palestinian Authority leader, Yasser Arafat, and Arafat's -- and the government was facing a no-confidence vote.
Joining us now from Jerusalem to talk about the ramifications of Abbas's decision to step down is "Newsweek"'s Jerusalem bureau chief, Joshua Hammer.
Joshua, again, thanks for joining us.
Information still coming in at this point. Clearly Abbas is the man that the United States wanted to lead the Palestinians. What does this do to the U.S.-led peace plan?
JOSHUA HAMMER, JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: Well, the U.S.-led peace plan was pretty much chalked off as dead on arrival from the beginning by many people. There was a brief period of hope, but that faded rapidly.
I think it's now being seen, once again, as moribund. Clearly, there's no bargaining. There's nobody to do business with at the Palestinian Authority. Well, in fact, there is somebody to do business with. I take that back. Yasser Arafat is the man to do business with. The problem is, the United States won't do business with him, and neither will Israel, so...
CALLEBS: Exactly, Joshua. That's one thing...
HAMMER: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a vacuum right now.
CALLEBS: Israel has already come out this morning and said it will not talk with Arafat. The U.S. has repeatedly said in the past it will not. At what point is the hand forced, that if they're not going to talk with Arafat, then they're either going to have to talk with somebody that he hand picks, or something of that nature?
HAMMER: Well, you already saw a slight acknowledgment a couple of weeks ago, after the Hamas bus bombing in Jerusalem, a slight acknowledgment of Arafat's power, when Colin Powell made an appeal, public appeal, to the Palestinian leader, asking him to intervene to get another ceasefire, another hudna.
There's a certain division in Washington. I'm in Jerusalem. But I'm a little bit distant from it.
But it's clear that there's this division between those who believe and understand that Arafat essentially wields power, has continued to wield power, has never stopped wielding power in the Palestinian society, and those who just simply refuse to believe, to accept him, who see him as a force of destruction, foster of terrorism, and want to hand pick and control the leadership or create their own leadership...
CALLEBS: Now, Mahmoud Abbas...
HAMMER: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has not worked.
CALLEBS: ... from the very start, Mahmoud Abbas made it clear he didn't want to be a figurehead. But was he ever elevated to anything more than a figurehead?
HAMMER: I think Mahmoud Abbas had some credibility at the very beginning. There was -- if you remember, in June, when he was elevated to the Aqaba summit, stood there with Ariel Sharon and George Bush, and shortly afterwards managed to achieve a ceasefire with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- with the armed groups, and brought a certain amount of what was called a hudna, meaning ceasefire, holiday, in both Israel and, to some extent, in Palestinian Authority.
There was a marked improvement in conditions for a few weeks there. And Mahmoud Abbas enjoyed the fruits of that improvement. But now, of course, you've seen a steadily -- steady erosion ever since.
CALLEBS: OK, Joshua Hammer, thanks very much for joining us. And clearly, the missile strike in Gaza City this morning going to further complicate matters in the Middle East.
And you have a book, "Season in Bethlehem." It comes out when?
HAMMER: Comes out in about two weeks.
CALLEBS: OK. Joshua Hammer, again, thanks for joining us, and your insight on the Middle East.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
