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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Nelda Blair, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff
Aired December 27, 2003 - 09:46 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: An alleged dirty bomber, an embattled pop star and a cross-dressing killer. They were among the top legal stories this year. Jose Padilla, the U.S. citizen the government says was plotting to detonate a so-called dirty bomb in the U.S. He has been detained for 19 months without access to a lawyer or his family. Now an appeals court says the government must charge or free him.
Now from Padilla to pop stars: In a new interview with CBS News "60 Minutes" Michael Jackson says he still believes it is okay to sleep in bed with children.
And in November, a jury in Texas acquitted a cross-dressing millionaire, who admitted killing a man, then butchering the body.
We're going to talk more about these stories in depth. Joining us from Texas, former prosecutor, Nelda Blair.
Thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
And we are joined by Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, a Miami civil liberties attorney in who is in Washington, D.C. this morning.
Good morning, Lida.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL LIBERTIES ATTORNEY: Good morning.
CALLEBS: Let's talk first about the Jose Padilla case, a great deal of movement in December about this case. Basically, the Bush administration saying we're going to control this individual. We're going to hold him as an enemy combatant. He wasn't charged. He hasn't been able to talk to a lawyer, his family.
What's going on, Nelda? Is this right?
NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: President Bush has every right under the laws passed after the September 11 terrorist attacks. If a person is considered an enemy combatant, a grave danger to national security, the administration can hold him in order to protect our lives and our freedom. I am completely for this. This man is a terrorist trained person.
Yes, is he an American citizen, but he was trained with Al-Qaeda. He's suspected of conspiring to set off a dirty bomb in our nation. And I say hold him.
CALLEBS: Lida, he may be a terrorist. He may be a thug, he may be a lot of things, but doesn't he have rights here in the U.S.?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. Under the government's reasoning any American can be arrested or detained anywhere in the United States and can be held as long as the government wants incommunicado, without access to a lawyer, and a court can say not a peep about it.
I have to disagree with Nelda on this one. Nelda, I forgot, it's Christmas, but I've got to tell you you're wrong. The reason you are wrong is because this is the most crucial case for basic liberty in this country right now. If we can say that the government has the right to hold an American, arrested on American soil, incommunicado, then the president has the right to do anything he pleases.
BLAIR: I'm sorry, Lida, but I'm tired of you defense attorneys whining about terrorist rights. Terrorists have no rights in my view.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Who decided he was a terrorist, though? Let me think about it.
CALLEBS: He hasn't even been charged. I mean, isn't that --
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Exactly.
CALLEBS: Isn't that what it comes down to. I mean, charge him, do something, right?
BLAIR: No, no.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's exactly right.
BLAIR: That's exactly what the law was designed to do was to allow them to detain people so they don't blow up cities like Miami, Lida.
CALLEBS: OK. But Nelda, the appeals court disagreed with you and said charge him or turn him loose.
BLAIR: I think that is correct, but I'm going to tell you what, the Bush administration is going to ask for a stay and they're going to appeal this to the Supreme Court. Let's wait and watch.
CALLEBS: OK. We're going to wait and watch on this one. I think it's, as you said, yet to be played out.
Boy, what a surprise, Michael Jackson turning in one of the top three legal stories that you two can't agree on. What do you think about the "60 minutes" interview, Nelda? Does it give you any pause? Yeah, it's great. It's fun to sleep with children.
BLAIR: Of course it does. The only reason we are talking about this case is because it is so sensational and it's Michael Jackson and people like Darryl Strawberry and Elizabeth Taylor and Venus Williams are involved in it because he is such a celebrity.
It is a child molestation case, it is a serious case. It is a case this district attorney has probably tried many, many times. The reason we're talking about it today is because it's a man who is of great fortune and fame and reputation and goes on television and says, Yes, it's OK for me to sleep with young boys. It's shocking to us.
CALLEBS: And, Lida, I think to a lot of people, he's also somewhat of an odd ball. Does that make him a criminal?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: The fact that he's an odd ball, you know, a jury will decide whether or not he's a criminal. This case is important because it is the biggest celebrity trial since the advent of the Internet and the 24-hour cable network.
So, what we're talking about here is the entire life of this quirky man, if you want to call him that, or criminal if you want to call him that, will be played out on the Internet and it will be played out on cable and that's why this case is important.
This is a media trial, and we are going to learn a lot about what courts are going to do with media in the future from this case.
BLAIR: But we have to remember, this is not going to be tried in front of a camera. It's going to be tried in front of a judge, in a real courtroom. This is a serious case, it is not a TV show.
CALLEBS: OK, I know, Nelda this case has to be close to you basically in your backyard, Robert Durst. I mean this guy, a millionaire from New York, moving down to Galveston, dressing as a mute woman admits to killing a somewhat obnoxious neighbor. And then says it was an accident. Butchers the body, throws it in the Galveston Bay and the jury comes back and says -- what?
BLAIR: That he's not guilt. That's right, Lida, you can no longer claim that Texas is the death penalty, hang 'em high capital of the world because we found the 12 liberals that reside here and put them on a jury in Texas.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSS TALK)
BLAIR: They found this man innocent because they said, well, we know he chopped up this body, but we can't consider that in whether or not he was guilty or innocent. It is beyond me.
CALLEBS: Lida, even Durst seemed shocked he was found not guilty.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Durst is a New Yorker, they are taught to have a stiff upper lip. Here he goes to trial in Texas, and yes, Texas is the center of the universe, Nelda, I'm going to agree with you. And then he gets acquitted and everybody wonders why.
Well, if you listen to the jury, the reason that the jury acquitted him is because the prosecution gave them too many options, and the defense stuck by its guns, told one consistent story. As one commentator put it, this case shows us all that the color of justice is green and if you have money in this country, you're going to get a good defense.
CALLEBS: Nelda, I'm going to give you the last word, quickly. What about the fact that Durst fled right after this? There were all kinds of mitigating circumstances.
BLAIR: There were all kinds of evidence that pointed towards Durst's guilty. All kinds, in fact, he is still under investigation for the murder of his former wife.
Just simply the fact that he threw the body into Galveston Bay after chopping it up was enough for me, but obviously not enough for this jury.
Like you say, Lida, the jury says, well, they gave us the questions. We answered the questions, but you've got to hand it to Dick Deguerin and Mike Ramsey, those defense attorneys. They did a fine job.
CALLEBS: Nelda Blair from the state where everything is bigger, Texas. And to Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, thanks very much for joining us from Washington, D.C., this morning. And happy holidays to both of you. We appreciate it.
BLAIR: Thanks.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Happy holidays.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 27, 2003 - 09:46 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: An alleged dirty bomber, an embattled pop star and a cross-dressing killer. They were among the top legal stories this year. Jose Padilla, the U.S. citizen the government says was plotting to detonate a so-called dirty bomb in the U.S. He has been detained for 19 months without access to a lawyer or his family. Now an appeals court says the government must charge or free him.
Now from Padilla to pop stars: In a new interview with CBS News "60 Minutes" Michael Jackson says he still believes it is okay to sleep in bed with children.
And in November, a jury in Texas acquitted a cross-dressing millionaire, who admitted killing a man, then butchering the body.
We're going to talk more about these stories in depth. Joining us from Texas, former prosecutor, Nelda Blair.
Thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
And we are joined by Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, a Miami civil liberties attorney in who is in Washington, D.C. this morning.
Good morning, Lida.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL LIBERTIES ATTORNEY: Good morning.
CALLEBS: Let's talk first about the Jose Padilla case, a great deal of movement in December about this case. Basically, the Bush administration saying we're going to control this individual. We're going to hold him as an enemy combatant. He wasn't charged. He hasn't been able to talk to a lawyer, his family.
What's going on, Nelda? Is this right?
NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: President Bush has every right under the laws passed after the September 11 terrorist attacks. If a person is considered an enemy combatant, a grave danger to national security, the administration can hold him in order to protect our lives and our freedom. I am completely for this. This man is a terrorist trained person.
Yes, is he an American citizen, but he was trained with Al-Qaeda. He's suspected of conspiring to set off a dirty bomb in our nation. And I say hold him.
CALLEBS: Lida, he may be a terrorist. He may be a thug, he may be a lot of things, but doesn't he have rights here in the U.S.?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. Under the government's reasoning any American can be arrested or detained anywhere in the United States and can be held as long as the government wants incommunicado, without access to a lawyer, and a court can say not a peep about it.
I have to disagree with Nelda on this one. Nelda, I forgot, it's Christmas, but I've got to tell you you're wrong. The reason you are wrong is because this is the most crucial case for basic liberty in this country right now. If we can say that the government has the right to hold an American, arrested on American soil, incommunicado, then the president has the right to do anything he pleases.
BLAIR: I'm sorry, Lida, but I'm tired of you defense attorneys whining about terrorist rights. Terrorists have no rights in my view.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Who decided he was a terrorist, though? Let me think about it.
CALLEBS: He hasn't even been charged. I mean, isn't that --
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Exactly.
CALLEBS: Isn't that what it comes down to. I mean, charge him, do something, right?
BLAIR: No, no.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's exactly right.
BLAIR: That's exactly what the law was designed to do was to allow them to detain people so they don't blow up cities like Miami, Lida.
CALLEBS: OK. But Nelda, the appeals court disagreed with you and said charge him or turn him loose.
BLAIR: I think that is correct, but I'm going to tell you what, the Bush administration is going to ask for a stay and they're going to appeal this to the Supreme Court. Let's wait and watch.
CALLEBS: OK. We're going to wait and watch on this one. I think it's, as you said, yet to be played out.
Boy, what a surprise, Michael Jackson turning in one of the top three legal stories that you two can't agree on. What do you think about the "60 minutes" interview, Nelda? Does it give you any pause? Yeah, it's great. It's fun to sleep with children.
BLAIR: Of course it does. The only reason we are talking about this case is because it is so sensational and it's Michael Jackson and people like Darryl Strawberry and Elizabeth Taylor and Venus Williams are involved in it because he is such a celebrity.
It is a child molestation case, it is a serious case. It is a case this district attorney has probably tried many, many times. The reason we're talking about it today is because it's a man who is of great fortune and fame and reputation and goes on television and says, Yes, it's OK for me to sleep with young boys. It's shocking to us.
CALLEBS: And, Lida, I think to a lot of people, he's also somewhat of an odd ball. Does that make him a criminal?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: The fact that he's an odd ball, you know, a jury will decide whether or not he's a criminal. This case is important because it is the biggest celebrity trial since the advent of the Internet and the 24-hour cable network.
So, what we're talking about here is the entire life of this quirky man, if you want to call him that, or criminal if you want to call him that, will be played out on the Internet and it will be played out on cable and that's why this case is important.
This is a media trial, and we are going to learn a lot about what courts are going to do with media in the future from this case.
BLAIR: But we have to remember, this is not going to be tried in front of a camera. It's going to be tried in front of a judge, in a real courtroom. This is a serious case, it is not a TV show.
CALLEBS: OK, I know, Nelda this case has to be close to you basically in your backyard, Robert Durst. I mean this guy, a millionaire from New York, moving down to Galveston, dressing as a mute woman admits to killing a somewhat obnoxious neighbor. And then says it was an accident. Butchers the body, throws it in the Galveston Bay and the jury comes back and says -- what?
BLAIR: That he's not guilt. That's right, Lida, you can no longer claim that Texas is the death penalty, hang 'em high capital of the world because we found the 12 liberals that reside here and put them on a jury in Texas.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSS TALK)
BLAIR: They found this man innocent because they said, well, we know he chopped up this body, but we can't consider that in whether or not he was guilty or innocent. It is beyond me.
CALLEBS: Lida, even Durst seemed shocked he was found not guilty.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Durst is a New Yorker, they are taught to have a stiff upper lip. Here he goes to trial in Texas, and yes, Texas is the center of the universe, Nelda, I'm going to agree with you. And then he gets acquitted and everybody wonders why.
Well, if you listen to the jury, the reason that the jury acquitted him is because the prosecution gave them too many options, and the defense stuck by its guns, told one consistent story. As one commentator put it, this case shows us all that the color of justice is green and if you have money in this country, you're going to get a good defense.
CALLEBS: Nelda, I'm going to give you the last word, quickly. What about the fact that Durst fled right after this? There were all kinds of mitigating circumstances.
BLAIR: There were all kinds of evidence that pointed towards Durst's guilty. All kinds, in fact, he is still under investigation for the murder of his former wife.
Just simply the fact that he threw the body into Galveston Bay after chopping it up was enough for me, but obviously not enough for this jury.
Like you say, Lida, the jury says, well, they gave us the questions. We answered the questions, but you've got to hand it to Dick Deguerin and Mike Ramsey, those defense attorneys. They did a fine job.
CALLEBS: Nelda Blair from the state where everything is bigger, Texas. And to Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, thanks very much for joining us from Washington, D.C., this morning. And happy holidays to both of you. We appreciate it.
BLAIR: Thanks.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Happy holidays.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
