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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview with Nelda Blair, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff

Aired January 10, 2004 - 08:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: In some other legal happenings this week, jury selection began in the Martha Stewart trial. And fallout from the Enron disaster. Lea Fastow, who was assistant treasurer at the company, missed a plea bargain deadline. The judge now says plans for her trial are moving ahead.
At our legal roundtable today, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, a civil liberties attorney, joins us from Miami. And Nelda Blair, a former prosecutor, is in Houston, which is Enron's hometown.

Ladies, thanks for being with us today.

NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thank you.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.

SAN MIGUEL: Nelda, we'll start with you because of Houston and it's in your backyard there and the Enron situation. Let's make it clear, Lea Fastow is not really what the prosecutors are wanting here. They want information that Andrew Fastow, her husband, the former CFO of the company, concerning these off the book schemes that led to the company's downfall.

BLAIR: Right.

SAN MIGUEL: The judge was the one who kept raising questions about the length of time Lea Fastow would spend in prison with this deal.

BLAIR: Right.

SAN MIGUEL: If you're a prosecutor, just how angry are you at this judge?

BLAIR: Well, these prosecutors really want this deal and I suspect they're still working on it, even at this hour, because they really do want information from Andrew Fastow. It's not who they want in the end. In the end, what they want -- who they want is Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay, who are the two men at the top. You're exactly right.

But the deal they made with Lea Fastow was for only five months in prison and Judge Hittner, who's a very independent minded, serious thinking judge, did not like that and it is his last -- he is the last person to make the decision on it. And he said no. SAN MIGUEL: So, Lida, if you're the attorney, I think it's Michael DeGeurin here, for Lea Fastow, and you know all this information and you're trying to get the best deal as you can, what are you advising your client and now how do you approach that February 10 trial date?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, first of all, you approach it by realizing that these prosecutors overplayed their hand. And, you know, I love this, Nelda, on being hometown, because it's your backyard. But, anyway, what's funny about this case is that the prosecutors should have known that this judge, who is independent minded and who wanted a pre-sentence report, how could they even imagine he wouldn't want a pre-sentence report before deciding on this sentence?

They overplayed their hand completely. They misread the judge and DeGeurin is going to have to rely on his own sense about how well he believes this judge will go with the next officer. He can't rely on the prosecutors, because obviously they don't know what the heck they're doing. And the reason they are in this mess is because I believe that the prosecutors did not expect that the judge would demand a pre-sentence report and that the judge would not simply roll over and accept their five month prison term recommendation.

Basically, the judge has the discretion and he told Lea Fastow, I can sentence you to more and I want a pre-sentence report. The only person who can waive that pre-sentence report is the judge, and he refused to do it. That's why we're in this mess.

BLAIR: But, Lida, you've got to admit, nine times out of 10 in any of these cases, even federal court, judges accept plea bargains. And so they had every right to think that Hittner would accept this plea bargain. But he came out and actually said he felt like this sentence was too low, which was a very scary thought for Michael DeGeurin and Lea Fastow.

SAN MIGUEL: Nelda, I'm not trying to -- I'm not trying to play stump the attorney here, but is Michael DeGeurin any relation to Dick DeGeurin...

BLAIR: Yes.

SAN MIGUEL: ... who represented Robert Durst? Is that his son?

BLAIR: They're brothers.

SAN MIGUEL: They're brothers, really?

BLAIR: Yes. Yes, very well known in this area.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, you know, I mean Dick DeGeurin is a legend. He, you know, represented David Koresh of the Branch Davidian situation, and, of course, had a pretty good outcome with the Robert Durst case.

The bottom line here is, though, you've got that, the jail time hanging over you and sooner or later the prosecutors are thinking that's going to make somebody decide to go ahead and accept this plea bargain and maybe, you know, if Andrew and Lea Fastow, they have the kids to consider in this situation.

BLAIR: That's right. That's right. That's the main thing is they have two small children at home. They're trying to fix things, to finagle things, to make some kind of agreement where these children do not become parentless, basically. And the prosecutors, in my understanding, is were willing to perhaps allow them to serve sentences at different times so that someone would be home with the parents. I mean it was a plea bargain worked out on both sides, all three sides, actually.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Lida, let's move on to the Martha Stewart case here now.

And, Lida, you know, jury selection has begun in this. And celebrities have been in trouble before, people who are on TV a lot or in the public eye, and juries have been picked before for those kinds of cases. But remind us just how tough it is for the lawyers involved in the Martha Stewart case to pick a jury that can be truly called unbiased.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, it is very, very difficult and the proof is in the pudding here. The jurors were asked to fill out 35 page questionnaires, which the lawyers will pore over for about two weeks before deciding who to select. And this is all, in some ways, voodoo. Some people are saying don't go for the stereotypical tough woman who has made it in business. Other people are saying you want people who like Martha Stewart, who like her, what she's done. Other people are saying you need independent minded people. Other people are saying stay away from the black and white personality types.

It is a mess. This is very, very difficult. Most of the time lawyers hire jury consultants who are supposed to help them pore over the questionnaires. These questionnaires were prepared by prosecutors and defense. In addition to the questionnaire, the lawyers will have the opportunity to question people individually.

They tried to write open-ended questions so that they can get a real sense by the answers of not just an answer to the question, but kind of an image of a personality.

SAN MIGUEL: OK...

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: This is really hard.

SAN MIGUEL: It sounds like.

BLAIR: It is tough.

SAN MIGUEL: And then, Nelda, I mean you were talking plea bargains earlier, let's go ahead n stay on that topic, but with Martha Stewart.

Do you expect a plea bargain in this situation and do you think she should take it?

BLAIR: I don't think so. I think Martha Stewart, because of her reputation, because of her business, because of her aura out there in the world, I don't think she can afford to take a plea bargain. A plea bargain means she has to plead guilty to something and I do not think Martha Stewart's reputation will allow her to do that.

You know, she was just on "Larry King Live" being a very sympathetic figure. This is the saddest Christmas she's ever had. And there is virtually no one in the nation, I would suspect, that does not have some opinion of Martha Stewart, which is why it makes it so hard to pick a jury.

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, not a whole lot of people who would like fall in the middle. You either love her or hate her in this situation.

BLAIR: Usually.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's right.

BLAIR: That's right.

SAN MIGUEL: And we'll also see -- we don't really have the time, but we'll find out if, well, you know, later on, maybe another segment, if you think she's going to make it to the stand or not in this case.

Lida Rodriguez-Taseff...

BLAIR: That'd be interesting.

SAN MIGUEL: ... civil liberties attorney in Miami and former prosecutor Nelda Blair in Houston.

Ladies, thanks so much.

We'll see you next time.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.

BLAIR: All right.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 10, 2004 - 08:14   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: In some other legal happenings this week, jury selection began in the Martha Stewart trial. And fallout from the Enron disaster. Lea Fastow, who was assistant treasurer at the company, missed a plea bargain deadline. The judge now says plans for her trial are moving ahead.
At our legal roundtable today, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, a civil liberties attorney, joins us from Miami. And Nelda Blair, a former prosecutor, is in Houston, which is Enron's hometown.

Ladies, thanks for being with us today.

NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thank you.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.

SAN MIGUEL: Nelda, we'll start with you because of Houston and it's in your backyard there and the Enron situation. Let's make it clear, Lea Fastow is not really what the prosecutors are wanting here. They want information that Andrew Fastow, her husband, the former CFO of the company, concerning these off the book schemes that led to the company's downfall.

BLAIR: Right.

SAN MIGUEL: The judge was the one who kept raising questions about the length of time Lea Fastow would spend in prison with this deal.

BLAIR: Right.

SAN MIGUEL: If you're a prosecutor, just how angry are you at this judge?

BLAIR: Well, these prosecutors really want this deal and I suspect they're still working on it, even at this hour, because they really do want information from Andrew Fastow. It's not who they want in the end. In the end, what they want -- who they want is Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay, who are the two men at the top. You're exactly right.

But the deal they made with Lea Fastow was for only five months in prison and Judge Hittner, who's a very independent minded, serious thinking judge, did not like that and it is his last -- he is the last person to make the decision on it. And he said no. SAN MIGUEL: So, Lida, if you're the attorney, I think it's Michael DeGeurin here, for Lea Fastow, and you know all this information and you're trying to get the best deal as you can, what are you advising your client and now how do you approach that February 10 trial date?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, first of all, you approach it by realizing that these prosecutors overplayed their hand. And, you know, I love this, Nelda, on being hometown, because it's your backyard. But, anyway, what's funny about this case is that the prosecutors should have known that this judge, who is independent minded and who wanted a pre-sentence report, how could they even imagine he wouldn't want a pre-sentence report before deciding on this sentence?

They overplayed their hand completely. They misread the judge and DeGeurin is going to have to rely on his own sense about how well he believes this judge will go with the next officer. He can't rely on the prosecutors, because obviously they don't know what the heck they're doing. And the reason they are in this mess is because I believe that the prosecutors did not expect that the judge would demand a pre-sentence report and that the judge would not simply roll over and accept their five month prison term recommendation.

Basically, the judge has the discretion and he told Lea Fastow, I can sentence you to more and I want a pre-sentence report. The only person who can waive that pre-sentence report is the judge, and he refused to do it. That's why we're in this mess.

BLAIR: But, Lida, you've got to admit, nine times out of 10 in any of these cases, even federal court, judges accept plea bargains. And so they had every right to think that Hittner would accept this plea bargain. But he came out and actually said he felt like this sentence was too low, which was a very scary thought for Michael DeGeurin and Lea Fastow.

SAN MIGUEL: Nelda, I'm not trying to -- I'm not trying to play stump the attorney here, but is Michael DeGeurin any relation to Dick DeGeurin...

BLAIR: Yes.

SAN MIGUEL: ... who represented Robert Durst? Is that his son?

BLAIR: They're brothers.

SAN MIGUEL: They're brothers, really?

BLAIR: Yes. Yes, very well known in this area.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, you know, I mean Dick DeGeurin is a legend. He, you know, represented David Koresh of the Branch Davidian situation, and, of course, had a pretty good outcome with the Robert Durst case.

The bottom line here is, though, you've got that, the jail time hanging over you and sooner or later the prosecutors are thinking that's going to make somebody decide to go ahead and accept this plea bargain and maybe, you know, if Andrew and Lea Fastow, they have the kids to consider in this situation.

BLAIR: That's right. That's right. That's the main thing is they have two small children at home. They're trying to fix things, to finagle things, to make some kind of agreement where these children do not become parentless, basically. And the prosecutors, in my understanding, is were willing to perhaps allow them to serve sentences at different times so that someone would be home with the parents. I mean it was a plea bargain worked out on both sides, all three sides, actually.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Lida, let's move on to the Martha Stewart case here now.

And, Lida, you know, jury selection has begun in this. And celebrities have been in trouble before, people who are on TV a lot or in the public eye, and juries have been picked before for those kinds of cases. But remind us just how tough it is for the lawyers involved in the Martha Stewart case to pick a jury that can be truly called unbiased.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, it is very, very difficult and the proof is in the pudding here. The jurors were asked to fill out 35 page questionnaires, which the lawyers will pore over for about two weeks before deciding who to select. And this is all, in some ways, voodoo. Some people are saying don't go for the stereotypical tough woman who has made it in business. Other people are saying you want people who like Martha Stewart, who like her, what she's done. Other people are saying you need independent minded people. Other people are saying stay away from the black and white personality types.

It is a mess. This is very, very difficult. Most of the time lawyers hire jury consultants who are supposed to help them pore over the questionnaires. These questionnaires were prepared by prosecutors and defense. In addition to the questionnaire, the lawyers will have the opportunity to question people individually.

They tried to write open-ended questions so that they can get a real sense by the answers of not just an answer to the question, but kind of an image of a personality.

SAN MIGUEL: OK...

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: This is really hard.

SAN MIGUEL: It sounds like.

BLAIR: It is tough.

SAN MIGUEL: And then, Nelda, I mean you were talking plea bargains earlier, let's go ahead n stay on that topic, but with Martha Stewart.

Do you expect a plea bargain in this situation and do you think she should take it?

BLAIR: I don't think so. I think Martha Stewart, because of her reputation, because of her business, because of her aura out there in the world, I don't think she can afford to take a plea bargain. A plea bargain means she has to plead guilty to something and I do not think Martha Stewart's reputation will allow her to do that.

You know, she was just on "Larry King Live" being a very sympathetic figure. This is the saddest Christmas she's ever had. And there is virtually no one in the nation, I would suspect, that does not have some opinion of Martha Stewart, which is why it makes it so hard to pick a jury.

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, not a whole lot of people who would like fall in the middle. You either love her or hate her in this situation.

BLAIR: Usually.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's right.

BLAIR: That's right.

SAN MIGUEL: And we'll also see -- we don't really have the time, but we'll find out if, well, you know, later on, maybe another segment, if you think she's going to make it to the stand or not in this case.

Lida Rodriguez-Taseff...

BLAIR: That'd be interesting.

SAN MIGUEL: ... civil liberties attorney in Miami and former prosecutor Nelda Blair in Houston.

Ladies, thanks so much.

We'll see you next time.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.

BLAIR: All right.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com