Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Author David Baron
Aired January 10, 2004 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, mountain lion attacks like the one in California this week are very unusual, with just 13 reported cases in the past 114 years.
But as more and more and more of us live where they do, the coexistence between animal and man becomes more unpredictable.
The book "A Beast in the Garden" takes an in-depth look at one community's struggle with the relationship between man and mountain lion in the late 1980s. The book's author is David Baron. He joins us now from Boston to talk to us about the recent attacks and possible repercussions.
Mr. Baron, thanks for being with us today.
DAVID BARON, AUTHOR, "THE BEAST IN THE GARDEN": Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Is this a similar situation like we're seeing with bears in New Jersey, where, as urban sprawl, you know, expands, you basically have this collision of habitats?
BARON: Exactly. But let me clarify something. Everyone assumes that we're having problems with black bears and with mountain lions and with coyotes because we're moving into their habitat, but it's much more complicated than that.
The animals are also moving into our habit. The black bears were wiped out almost entirely from New Jersey until 30 years ago. Mountain lions were bounty-hunted until 30 or 40 years ago. These animals were at much lower populations. They are now coming back, which is what our environmental laws were intended to do.
But they're coming back into our suburbs, while our suburbs are moving out to where they are.
SAN MIGUEL: I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I've always heard, you know, I guess one of the stereotypes, I guess, about wildlife is that, you know, what? They're more afraid of you than they -- than you are of them. But I'm wondering, when it comes to mountain lions, if that is particularly the case. I mean, is it rare for a mountain lion to attack a human?
BARON: Well, and let me also clarify something. You, I think, gave a figure of 13 or 14 attacks in the last 100 years. That's fatal attacks. There have been many more people who have been seriously injured by mountain lions, and most of those attacks have occurred in very recent times.
In just -- since 1990, more people have been attacked by mountain lions in North America than in the entire half century before that.
Mountain lion attacks remain very rare. But they're a lot less rare than they were just 20 or 30 years ago.
And so that gets back to your point. It used to be the case that mountain lions were more afraid of us than we are of them. But more and more, we have mountain lions that are not afraid of us. And what I write about in my book, "The Beast in the Garden," is that it's our fault. We are training those cats not to fear us, because we are inviting them into our yards, and we're not scaring them off anymore.
SAN MIGUEL: When you say "inviting them into our yards," is there something about how we're -- the landscaping, or what we're putting out on in the yards that -- you know, the garbage, that kind of thing?
BARON: Absolutely. Well, with mountain lions, it's not garbage. With black bears, it is. But with mountain lions, you know, look at Southern California, look at Orange County, where this attack happened. When homes move in, people irrigate lawns and gardens. And in essence, they're creating better wildlife habitat for some animals when the homes move in than what is naturally there.
Southern California is very arid. But where the homes are, you have lush palm trees and avocado trees. That is bringing the deer and other creatures in. And when you bring those animals in, the mountain lions follow, because they eat the deer.
So we are basically telling the lions, If you're looking for food, you'll find it in my back yard. And then they start eating dogs and cats, and it's one step more before something like what happened on Thursday happens, that a lion gets the idea to attack a person.
SAN MIGUEL: Let me ask you, then, if it's unusual, if it's rare to have, like, a serial attacker among the mountain lion population, one single cat attacking several people along a certain trail that the cat may consider its turf, its territory?
BARON: Right. That is rare, but it makes perfect sense. I mean, the way I figure it happened was, Mark Reynolds, the man who was killed, was killed at some point, either I guess earlier Thursday, I don't know the details there. That mountain lion had a successful hunt.
This is not an evil creature, this is a smart creature. It saw a person on a bicycle. It attacked. It was -- it successfully killed. It wanted to do it again.
I mean, so we haven't seen that very much in the past, because usually the mountain lion is caught before it has a chance to do it again. But I think the lesson is mountain lions that are aggressive towards people have to be removed from the population, because they'll do it again.
SAN MIGUEL: So what needs to be done here? I mean, urban sprawl is going to continue even with some restrictions. We only have about 20, 30 seconds left. What should be done with situations like this?
BARON: Well, we need to educate people who live around mountain lions that it's not a good idea to encourage deer into your yards. If you have dogs and cats, you should protect them so that they don't get eaten by mountain lions. And then that can cause dangerous lion behavior. And individual lions that start to behave in dangerous ways, the authorities need to go in, and they need to remove those lions.
SAN MIGUEL: The name of the book is "The Beast in the Garden: A Modern Parable of Man and Nature." The author, David Baron, joining us live from Boston. Thanks so much for your insight. We appreciate your time this morning.
BARON: Thank you, Renay.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 10, 2004 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, mountain lion attacks like the one in California this week are very unusual, with just 13 reported cases in the past 114 years.
But as more and more and more of us live where they do, the coexistence between animal and man becomes more unpredictable.
The book "A Beast in the Garden" takes an in-depth look at one community's struggle with the relationship between man and mountain lion in the late 1980s. The book's author is David Baron. He joins us now from Boston to talk to us about the recent attacks and possible repercussions.
Mr. Baron, thanks for being with us today.
DAVID BARON, AUTHOR, "THE BEAST IN THE GARDEN": Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Is this a similar situation like we're seeing with bears in New Jersey, where, as urban sprawl, you know, expands, you basically have this collision of habitats?
BARON: Exactly. But let me clarify something. Everyone assumes that we're having problems with black bears and with mountain lions and with coyotes because we're moving into their habitat, but it's much more complicated than that.
The animals are also moving into our habit. The black bears were wiped out almost entirely from New Jersey until 30 years ago. Mountain lions were bounty-hunted until 30 or 40 years ago. These animals were at much lower populations. They are now coming back, which is what our environmental laws were intended to do.
But they're coming back into our suburbs, while our suburbs are moving out to where they are.
SAN MIGUEL: I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I've always heard, you know, I guess one of the stereotypes, I guess, about wildlife is that, you know, what? They're more afraid of you than they -- than you are of them. But I'm wondering, when it comes to mountain lions, if that is particularly the case. I mean, is it rare for a mountain lion to attack a human?
BARON: Well, and let me also clarify something. You, I think, gave a figure of 13 or 14 attacks in the last 100 years. That's fatal attacks. There have been many more people who have been seriously injured by mountain lions, and most of those attacks have occurred in very recent times.
In just -- since 1990, more people have been attacked by mountain lions in North America than in the entire half century before that.
Mountain lion attacks remain very rare. But they're a lot less rare than they were just 20 or 30 years ago.
And so that gets back to your point. It used to be the case that mountain lions were more afraid of us than we are of them. But more and more, we have mountain lions that are not afraid of us. And what I write about in my book, "The Beast in the Garden," is that it's our fault. We are training those cats not to fear us, because we are inviting them into our yards, and we're not scaring them off anymore.
SAN MIGUEL: When you say "inviting them into our yards," is there something about how we're -- the landscaping, or what we're putting out on in the yards that -- you know, the garbage, that kind of thing?
BARON: Absolutely. Well, with mountain lions, it's not garbage. With black bears, it is. But with mountain lions, you know, look at Southern California, look at Orange County, where this attack happened. When homes move in, people irrigate lawns and gardens. And in essence, they're creating better wildlife habitat for some animals when the homes move in than what is naturally there.
Southern California is very arid. But where the homes are, you have lush palm trees and avocado trees. That is bringing the deer and other creatures in. And when you bring those animals in, the mountain lions follow, because they eat the deer.
So we are basically telling the lions, If you're looking for food, you'll find it in my back yard. And then they start eating dogs and cats, and it's one step more before something like what happened on Thursday happens, that a lion gets the idea to attack a person.
SAN MIGUEL: Let me ask you, then, if it's unusual, if it's rare to have, like, a serial attacker among the mountain lion population, one single cat attacking several people along a certain trail that the cat may consider its turf, its territory?
BARON: Right. That is rare, but it makes perfect sense. I mean, the way I figure it happened was, Mark Reynolds, the man who was killed, was killed at some point, either I guess earlier Thursday, I don't know the details there. That mountain lion had a successful hunt.
This is not an evil creature, this is a smart creature. It saw a person on a bicycle. It attacked. It was -- it successfully killed. It wanted to do it again.
I mean, so we haven't seen that very much in the past, because usually the mountain lion is caught before it has a chance to do it again. But I think the lesson is mountain lions that are aggressive towards people have to be removed from the population, because they'll do it again.
SAN MIGUEL: So what needs to be done here? I mean, urban sprawl is going to continue even with some restrictions. We only have about 20, 30 seconds left. What should be done with situations like this?
BARON: Well, we need to educate people who live around mountain lions that it's not a good idea to encourage deer into your yards. If you have dogs and cats, you should protect them so that they don't get eaten by mountain lions. And then that can cause dangerous lion behavior. And individual lions that start to behave in dangerous ways, the authorities need to go in, and they need to remove those lions.
SAN MIGUEL: The name of the book is "The Beast in the Garden: A Modern Parable of Man and Nature." The author, David Baron, joining us live from Boston. Thanks so much for your insight. We appreciate your time this morning.
BARON: Thank you, Renay.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
