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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Nelda Blar, Lida Rodriquez-Taseff
Aired February 21, 2004 - 08:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In Miami, a 14-year-old middle schooler has been charged as an adult in the stabbing death of a classmate in a school restroom. We want to talk about that and other legal issues this morning in this morning's legal roundtable.
With us from Miami is civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez- Taseff.
Good morning to you, Lida, from Miami.
And also from Miami this morning, former prosecutor Nelda Blair.
I want to make it very clear, you guys are in different studios so you can't actually reach over and sock each other, right?
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That's right.
COLLINS: All right. That's the safest way to play this.
Let's begin...
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hey, the town ain't big enough for the two of us.
COLLINS: Let's begin, unfortunately, with a very sad and disturbing case that has happened, as we were mentioning in the introduction here. A 14-year-old middle school student indicted on Wednesday, first degree murder charges -- you're looking at him there, Michael Hernandez -- in the slashing death of a friend in the school restroom.
The charge against Hernandez means he could receive a sentence of life without parole if he's convicted in the murder of Jaime Rodriguez Gough, an eighth grade classmate.
What do we think about this?
Nelda, tell us, should he be charged as an adult?
BLAIR: Well, he acted as an adult. He committed a crime that is befitting an adult. And remember, this young man is 14. He is a young man. He is not a 4-year-old. He's 14. he knows what he was doing. And the reason, by the way, that he could get life in prison is because he's charged with capital murder, because it was premeditated. He planned this.
So, yes, I think it's the right way to charge him. COLLINS: Lida, talk to us, if you would, about diminished capacity. Is that a term that is going to come up throughout this case? Seven to 14 years old, I understand, is where this term is used. It tries to determine how much the child understands about his or her actions.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely it's going to come up, Heidi. This is THE key issue in this case. A 14-year-old, you know, and Nelda forgets that we can't simply charge a 14-year-old with a capital crime that an adult would commit simply because you say well, it's the kind of crime an adult commits. That's circular.
We need to look at whether or not this 14-year-old understood the consequences of his actions, understood what he was doing. And it all boils down to that confession that he gave, whether he understood the Miranda warnings that were given to him, whether he understood what he was doing when he signed that confession.
So the...
COLLINS: But, Lida, isn't that exactly what diminished capacity does, is saying that a 14-year-old, on the oldest end of the spectrum from seven to 14, fully understands, has the capacity to understand what has occurred?
BLAIR: Right.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, that's exactly right. But that's exactly what the test is, does he have the capacity to understand what occurred, especially when it's in a school setting where everybody is surrounding him, questioning him and he signs a confession. I think the lawyers are going to have a very, very good case here to argue that he didn't know what he was doing, that he didn't know what he was signing and that he didn't understand the consequences both of his actions and of talking to the police.
BLAIR: Lida, they may be able to show that he did not understand what he was doing when he wrote a confession. I don't disagree with that. But to say that a 14-year-old who brought a glove and a knife to school did not know that when he cut that child's throat he would die is beyond absurd.
COLLINS: Nelda, quickly...
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Nelda...
COLLINS: ... let me give you the last word on this one, because we want to try to move on to the Enron case.
BLAIR: OK.
COLLINS: Isn't it true that if he were to get life without parole, that actually when he becomes of age, 18 or 21 -- I'm not sure in Florida which that is -- that he could get probation?
BLAIR: It's supposed to be life without parole. COLLINS: Right.
BLAIR: This is similar to the Lionel Tate case, the young man who was just released from prison. He was actually going to serve life. The only reason he's out is because he wasn't judged to be competent to stand trial. But if this young man is found competent, found guilty, a good chance he'll serve life.
COLLINS: All right, let's move on, ladies, if we could, to the Enron scandal and former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling, arraigned on Thursday, as you know. Several charges here -- insider trading, fraud, conspiracy -- making him now the highest ranking official to be charged in this two federal investigation.
It makes me want to ask, what about Kenneth Lay?
BLAIR: He's probably going to be the next, but my guess is that the prosecution had a much, much stronger case against Jeff Skilling. And the way this happened is just recently, when Andrew Fastow also made a deal with the prosecution, he is going to be the anchor in the prosecution's case. It's a very complicated, very financially accounting involved case. But the dominoes are falling slowly but surely, and Skilling is one of the last dominoes.
COLLINS: Lida, quickly before we let the both of you go, do you think this ruling here is going to give anyone who lost their own personal finances with Enron any sort of closure?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not, especially because Skilling has pretty much won the first round. Basically what he did, he went into court with a borrowed tie, posted a $5 million bond with a cashier's check and then his Hollywood lawyer told everybody who would listen that his client had passed a lie detector test with flying colors. A conviction in this case is going to be very, very hard to get and investors are not going to feel any better.
BLAIR: We're going to talk about this one some more.
COLLINS: Yes, I bet we will.
Thanks so much to the both of you, civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff and former prosecutor Nelda Blair.
Thanks so much to the two of you from Miami this morning.
BLAIR: Thank you.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 21, 2004 - 08:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In Miami, a 14-year-old middle schooler has been charged as an adult in the stabbing death of a classmate in a school restroom. We want to talk about that and other legal issues this morning in this morning's legal roundtable.
With us from Miami is civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez- Taseff.
Good morning to you, Lida, from Miami.
And also from Miami this morning, former prosecutor Nelda Blair.
I want to make it very clear, you guys are in different studios so you can't actually reach over and sock each other, right?
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That's right.
COLLINS: All right. That's the safest way to play this.
Let's begin...
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hey, the town ain't big enough for the two of us.
COLLINS: Let's begin, unfortunately, with a very sad and disturbing case that has happened, as we were mentioning in the introduction here. A 14-year-old middle school student indicted on Wednesday, first degree murder charges -- you're looking at him there, Michael Hernandez -- in the slashing death of a friend in the school restroom.
The charge against Hernandez means he could receive a sentence of life without parole if he's convicted in the murder of Jaime Rodriguez Gough, an eighth grade classmate.
What do we think about this?
Nelda, tell us, should he be charged as an adult?
BLAIR: Well, he acted as an adult. He committed a crime that is befitting an adult. And remember, this young man is 14. He is a young man. He is not a 4-year-old. He's 14. he knows what he was doing. And the reason, by the way, that he could get life in prison is because he's charged with capital murder, because it was premeditated. He planned this.
So, yes, I think it's the right way to charge him. COLLINS: Lida, talk to us, if you would, about diminished capacity. Is that a term that is going to come up throughout this case? Seven to 14 years old, I understand, is where this term is used. It tries to determine how much the child understands about his or her actions.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely it's going to come up, Heidi. This is THE key issue in this case. A 14-year-old, you know, and Nelda forgets that we can't simply charge a 14-year-old with a capital crime that an adult would commit simply because you say well, it's the kind of crime an adult commits. That's circular.
We need to look at whether or not this 14-year-old understood the consequences of his actions, understood what he was doing. And it all boils down to that confession that he gave, whether he understood the Miranda warnings that were given to him, whether he understood what he was doing when he signed that confession.
So the...
COLLINS: But, Lida, isn't that exactly what diminished capacity does, is saying that a 14-year-old, on the oldest end of the spectrum from seven to 14, fully understands, has the capacity to understand what has occurred?
BLAIR: Right.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, that's exactly right. But that's exactly what the test is, does he have the capacity to understand what occurred, especially when it's in a school setting where everybody is surrounding him, questioning him and he signs a confession. I think the lawyers are going to have a very, very good case here to argue that he didn't know what he was doing, that he didn't know what he was signing and that he didn't understand the consequences both of his actions and of talking to the police.
BLAIR: Lida, they may be able to show that he did not understand what he was doing when he wrote a confession. I don't disagree with that. But to say that a 14-year-old who brought a glove and a knife to school did not know that when he cut that child's throat he would die is beyond absurd.
COLLINS: Nelda, quickly...
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Nelda...
COLLINS: ... let me give you the last word on this one, because we want to try to move on to the Enron case.
BLAIR: OK.
COLLINS: Isn't it true that if he were to get life without parole, that actually when he becomes of age, 18 or 21 -- I'm not sure in Florida which that is -- that he could get probation?
BLAIR: It's supposed to be life without parole. COLLINS: Right.
BLAIR: This is similar to the Lionel Tate case, the young man who was just released from prison. He was actually going to serve life. The only reason he's out is because he wasn't judged to be competent to stand trial. But if this young man is found competent, found guilty, a good chance he'll serve life.
COLLINS: All right, let's move on, ladies, if we could, to the Enron scandal and former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling, arraigned on Thursday, as you know. Several charges here -- insider trading, fraud, conspiracy -- making him now the highest ranking official to be charged in this two federal investigation.
It makes me want to ask, what about Kenneth Lay?
BLAIR: He's probably going to be the next, but my guess is that the prosecution had a much, much stronger case against Jeff Skilling. And the way this happened is just recently, when Andrew Fastow also made a deal with the prosecution, he is going to be the anchor in the prosecution's case. It's a very complicated, very financially accounting involved case. But the dominoes are falling slowly but surely, and Skilling is one of the last dominoes.
COLLINS: Lida, quickly before we let the both of you go, do you think this ruling here is going to give anyone who lost their own personal finances with Enron any sort of closure?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not, especially because Skilling has pretty much won the first round. Basically what he did, he went into court with a borrowed tie, posted a $5 million bond with a cashier's check and then his Hollywood lawyer told everybody who would listen that his client had passed a lie detector test with flying colors. A conviction in this case is going to be very, very hard to get and investors are not going to feel any better.
BLAIR: We're going to talk about this one some more.
COLLINS: Yes, I bet we will.
Thanks so much to the both of you, civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff and former prosecutor Nelda Blair.
Thanks so much to the two of you from Miami this morning.
BLAIR: Thank you.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
