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CNN Saturday Morning News

100 Suspected Terrorist al Qaeda Fighters Captured

Aired March 20, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The next half hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING begins right now.
From CNN Center in Atlanta, this CNN SATURDAY MORNING. March 20, making it the first day of spring.

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Officially, yes.

KAGAN: Good morning, once again, I'm Daryn Kagan.

SAN MIGUEL: I'm Renay San Miguel. We thank you for being with us this morning.

Kickback, grab a cup of coffee. Here's what we've got this hour. Fierce fighting in Pakistan. We have a live update on efforts to capture suspected al Qaeda fighters, including, possibly, the terror group's number two man.

A year after the start of the war in Iraq, we get a status check and protesters around the world share their views as well.

Plus, how safe are your supplements? Find out ahead in our "Weekend House Call."

KAGAN: Taking a look at the headlines at this hour, Pakistani military officials say they've captured about 100 suspected al Qaeda fighters in the mountainous border region with Afghanistan. A senior military commander says he is not entirely certain that al Qaeda's number two man, Ayman al-Zawahiri is in the area. The commander says it could be him, but could also be a local criminal.

There are reports out of Afghanistan today of civilians killed in an air strike. According to the Reuters, local villagers say that six Afghans died when U.S. warplanes bombed the area. The U.S. military says it struck Taliban positions in the area and is unaware of any civilian casualties.

In Taiwan, a senior aid to president Chen Shui-bian tells CNN he appears to have won election by a narrow margin. Chen and Vice President Annette Lu survived an assassination attempt on the last day of campaigning.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top story this hour, the pitched battle in Pakistan's rugged northwest mountains: Pakistan has taken about 100 suspected fighters into custody. But number two man, Ayman al-Zawahiri is not among them. CNN's Ash-har Quraishi joins us now by videophone, live from Islamabad, with the latest.

Ash-har?

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Renay.

They're moving into a fifth day of heavy fighting in the northwest Pakistan in the tribal areas, in this area known as South Waziristan. This is the heaviest battle Pakistani military forces have been fighting since they went into this area.

They say they have made some progress. They've taken eight compounds and cleared them out. And as you mentioned, they've captured about 100 suspects, including suspected al Qaeda fighters, as well as the tribesmen that have been harboring them.

Now, it's still unclear as to who this high valued target is. Now, intelligence sources have indicated it may be Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's number two. But on the ground, the corps commander said he couldn't say for certain.

There were radio intercepts that they had gotten in which they thought maybe it could be an Uzbek or Chechen militant of some significance, still unclear.

They still have not been able to clear the area, where they say that somewhere around 300 to 400 al Qaeda fighters are holed up and keeping an intense battle on their hands at this time.

Right now they're holding position. They have been bringing in the heavy artillery, small arms fire as well as helicopters gunships aiding in this effort. They've been pounding the area for about five days now, Renay.

It's been a very, very fierce battle, but until they get to the end of this and are able to take the entire area it won't become clear as to what that high value target is.

SAN MIGUEL: It is a battle that is still going on. We'll wait to hear from you later on this morning for more updates. Ash-har Quraishi live from Islamabad, thank so much.

KAGAN: In Washington, President Bush says the war on terror has made the U.S. and the rest of the world safer. Mr. Bush addressed a gathering of diplomats. Our White House Correspondent Dana Bash joins us live in our Washington bureau this morning.

Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

The president used his speech yesterday to rally nations to stay the course and continue to rebuild Iraq, also talked about the broader fight against terrorism, called it, a call for a generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BASH (voice over): On the year anniversary of the Iraq war that divided America and key allies, a call for unity on the broader war on terrorism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There can be no separate peace with the terrorist enemy. Any sign of weakness or retreat simply validates terrorist violence and invites more violence for all nations.

BASH: Last week's attack in Spain, the subsequent political defeat of an ally there, and deadly bombings in Iraq has the administration working to keep a shaky U.S.-led coalition together. The president cited attacks from Saudi Arabia to Russia, warning every nation is vulnerable.

BUSH: Each attack is designed to demoralize our people and divide us from one another.

BASH: In the White House East Room, officials from more than 80 nations, including France, Germany and Russia, who actively opposed the Iraq war. Mr. Bush said all now agree Saddam Hussein's removal makes the Middle East more safe.

BUSH: Those differences belong to the past.

BASH: But differences remain. France's foreign minister said Friday the world is a more dangerous place because of the Iraq war. Though security is still a problem, the transition to democracy facing challenges, the president called the day one year ago, he ordered air strikes, a day of deliverance.

BUSH: Who would prefer that Saddam's torture chambers still be open? Who would wish that more mass graves were still being filled?

BASH: Only a passing reference to weapons of mass destruction, the central argument for war, not yet found. Democrats immediately criticized the president for continuing to tie the war in Iraq to the war on terror.

WESLEY CLARK, (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We distracted ourselves from the focus on terrorism to go into Iraq, to a mission that I believe the Bush administration believed was sort of a low hanging fruit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: But the president, running for re-election on his wartime credentials, has good reason to link the two issues. Polls show the vast amount of Americans support him in his fight against terrorism, but they are divided on whether or not the war in Iraq was the right thing to do.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Dana Bash, on a Saturday morning out of our Washington bureau. Thank you. SAN MIGUEL: The suspect in the Ohio highway shooting case is expected to be returned to the state today. Charles McCoy, Jr. is accused of 24 shootings in the Columbus area, including one that was fatal. McCoy was arrested Wednesday in Las Vegas. Meanwhile, 911 tapes indicate the man who tipped police made 6 calls over nearly 12 hours trying to convince dispatchers and authorities that he had actually seen McCoy.

KAGAN: The anniversary of the war in Iraq is being marked by anti-war protests in many corners of the globe. One of the most dramatic you're watching along the side of Big Ben in London. Greenpeace says two of its members evaded security to scale the landmark clock tower. Thousands of anti-war demonstrators are expected to march through London later today.

In Japan, organizers say up to 30,000 demonstrators in Tokyo are protesting that country's presence in Iraq, which is actually growing today. A convoy of about 130 troops crossed into southern Iraq from Kuwait. They'll join about 250 Japanese troops already deployed in the town of Samar (ph).

SAN MIGUEL: U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan proposes an independent inquiry into Iraq's Oil For Food program. The uninitiated humanitarian effort has been rocked by widespread allegations of corruption. Thursday the General Accounting Office claimed that Saddam Hussein took in $10 billion from illegal revenues from the program. An internal U.N. probe has already been launched to see if any U.N. employees profited from the program along with oil traders.

When it comes to casualties in Iraq, most reporting in the U.S. has been about American forces who have been killed. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke about that last time on CNN's "Larry King Live" and says Iraqis are paying a much higher price to secure their own democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There are many more Iraqi security forces than there are Americans or coalition forces, and they're doing the job. So we don't report in the United States the extent which Iraqi security people are being killed, but there are many more being killed than there are coalition forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: To date, 572 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq over the past year. Most of them have died since President Bush declared major combat was over May 1.

KAGAN: We want to know what your thoughts are on the progress of war in Iraq. E-mail us at WAM@CNN.com

Out of the closet and into court, our legal team debates the fate of a Methodist minister.

Are you taking herbal supplements? We'll help you sort out the good, the bad and the stuff in the middle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have the Tyco trial in New York City. Jurors will resume deliberations next week. We have former executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are on trial for allegedly plundering the company of hundreds of millions of dollars. That is going to kick off our "Legal Roundtable" with civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez- Tasaff and former prosecutor Nelda Blair.

Good morning, ladies. Thanks for being with us.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASAFF, PRES. ACLU OF MIAMI: Good morning.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

KAGAN: Lida, let's go ahead and start with you. The jury barely had gone to start deliberations and they come out and they say "What do you mean by criminal intentions." What do you take from that?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: It's a definite good sign for the defense. The issue here is not the lifestyles of Kozlowski and Swartz. The issue here is whether or not they took this money, the bonuses and the loans, without the consent or approval of the board.

The defense has pointed out there were 37 board meetings that took place where no minutes were taken. And as the defense pointed out were what were they doing, hanging out? They say that during the board meetings the board approved every single one of the bonuses and loans. If they're right, then the jury is asking about the criminal intent issue because they're likely to acquit on those charges.

BLAIR: I completely disagree.

KAGAN: You're kidding.

BLAIR: I know --

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: I'm shocked, Nelda. We're shocked.

BLAIR: I realize that. When a jury starts asking detailed questions about each count and about each aspect of each count it means they are very seriously considering them separately, and they have not gone in there and said, look, these guys really aren't guilty. Let's let them go. Which is what the defense wants them to do.

They want a jury to come out quick and say we just don't believe they did anything wrong. But not this jury, no, no. They're doing the same thing the Martha Stewart jury did. They're analyzing it very carefully. They're asking specific questions. They're looking for a way to convict.

KAGAN: Funny that you bring up Martha Stewart. Because that is the next question I have here. Does what happened to her and Peter Bacanovic, does that influence juries, do you think? It shows the direction that people are going in, Lida? RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: I don't think so. Juries are wonderful. This is why we have a jury system in this country. Juries analyze the case that's put in front of them.

What they're going to look at here, as Nelda said, is they're going to look carefully at the evidence. And I think that what they're going to find with regard to the larceny charges is that the prosecution did not prove its case. That lifestyle doesn't mean theft.

Lifestyle just means, you know, just an obnoxious way of living they're not going to convict simply because these people lived in a house where, you know the maids curtain was worth $6,000. They're going to convict on the facts and this jury has nothing to do with Martha's jury.

KAGAN: But, Nelda, isn't there something weird in the world when one action that's taken doesn't affect as many people compared to a huge corporation -- that something's out of whack, say for the sake of conversation that Kozlowski and Swartz get off and they're not found guilty?

BLAIR: Well, if they're not found guilty I'd say yes, something is out of whack. Because what the prosecution has proven here is not that these two men made millions of dollars and spent millions of dollars. You know what? That's OK in America. What's not OK is to have a company that is owned by a bunch of other people called shareholders, and to spend that company's money on your wife's birthday, your penthouse in New York, your trips and your personal piggy bank money. You cannot do that in America. And that's what this jury is going find they did wrong.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: But Nelda, you know very well the issue here isn't whether or not they spent this money, even if it's Tyco's money. The issue here is whether or not the board approved it. That's what it boils down to.

BLAIR: Well, the testimony of several of the directors is that they did not authorize them to spend hundreds of millions of dollars like they did. So I disagree with you, Lida. I think they'll be found guilty. Maybe they'll talk about it later.

KAGAN: Let's talk about a different topic right now, and that is on the West Coast. It involves a woman who has come out and said that she is a lesbian. She is the Reverend Karen Damon and she is now on trial within the United Methodist Church.

The charge, that she has practices that are declared, by the United Methodist Church, to be incompatible with Christian teachings. What's at stake here? She can be stripped of her ministry for being a homosexual. Any comments on that, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. That's why we have separation of church and state. This is a church trial. The church is going to do what it's going to do. Whether they convict or acquit, we in civil society have really no say. It's kind of cool because it's happening at a time when there's incredible religious strive in the world, and we should be very proud of this trial, because nobody from the government is running in there saying, you must listen to the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Nobody's going you must acquit this woman, because the Constitution says so.

This is about separation of church and state and it is an incredible lesson as to why Americans' democracy system works so well.

KAGAN: Yes, we do want to be -- you're making a good point here, this is not a criminal trial.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Right.

KAGAN: Or any kind of legal trial. This is happening within a church.

BLAIR: Exactly.

KAGAN: But Nelda, do you think some people will have a problem with what they consider a form of discrimination being referred to as cool and a good thing?

BLAIR: Well, possibly, because you know, this is actually, it is a very -- it's a very serious trial.

This trial, yes, it's within the United Methodist Church, but it consists of a 13-member jury of clergymen. It consists of a jury pool where two lawyers actually picked the jury just like you would in a trial court, if it were a government setting. And it's also beginning/closing arguments, opening arguments, witnesses. It has a judge. And this lady is on trial for her clergyship.

And the reason is because the United Methodist Church law, which was just endorsed again in the past couple of years, says that self- avowed homosexuals cannot be ordained as clergy. It's the law. It's very simple. Her lesbianism is not on trial. Whether or not she violated church law is on trial.

KAGAN: It is interesting, and I know this happens in the legal law all the time, too. There seems to be a conflict in that it does have that rule that you can't be a member of clergy if you're homosexual, within that church. But also the church's own social principles call for supporting the rights and liberties of homosexuals.

BLAIR: That's right.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's really kind of interesting because the church recognizes there's a difference between civil society and religious beliefs. And what the church is trying to do, itself, is separate the two.

And what's interesting about this case, is that whether or not the church convicts or acquits is irrelevant in civil society. Just as, for example, with regard to the Catholic Church, they don't believe in ordaining women priests. And in civil society we'd consider that gender discrimination.

The two can coexist, religious doctrine and religious freedom can coexist with government decisions and the way that civil society is run. That's why this is a fascinating trial.

KAGAN: That's going to be -- I'm sorry, Nelda, that is going to have to be the final word.

BLAIR: OK, all right.

KAGAN: You bring up of the topic of women priests in the Catholic Church, we have to have you back just to go on that one. A great way to wrap it up with more conversation. Nelda Blair and Lida Rodriguez-Taseff. Thank you so much for your time, Ladies, appreciate it.

BLAIR: You bet.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thanks, Daryn.

KAGAN: You told me it was going to get out of control.

SAN MIGUEL: Oh, no, not at all.

KAGAN: They were very well-behaved.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, it depends on the topic with them. They were very well-behaved, but sometimes they can take it up a level.

KAGAN: Downright civil. I thought they were lovely.

SAN MIGUEL: The idea that they would agree on anything. That would be breaking news.

KAGAN: True.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Time now for a check of the top stories making headlines.

Taiwan's president has narrowly won his bid for re-election, party sources tell CNN. The close election comes a day after President Chen Shui-bian and his vice president survived an assassination attempt. Neither were seriously hurt.

Back here in the States, the Army has dropped all charges against U.S. Army Chaplain James Yee. He was originally accused of espionage at the terrorist detention camp at Guantanamo Bay and of mishandling classified information. He was never charged with espionage.

KAGAN: Time to talk about our e-mail question of the day. Once again: Do you think Iraqis are better off now than they were a year ago, before the war began? SAN MIGUEL: And Susan, from Kansas, makes it very short and sweet.

"No, the Iraqis are not better off than a year ago. It will take a very long time."

KAGAN: Right to the point. We appreciate that.

Cedar Key, Florida is where is where AJ is, and he writes: "Of course, they are much better off today than last year. We should all be happy about that not trying to turn it around."

Thank you for your responses. Send in more. Wam@cnn.com, our address.

Some health news for you now: Doctors in Miami have revealed they performed an eight-organ transplant on a six-month-old girl. The 12-hour operation was done seven weeks ago and replaced her digestive system. The little Italian girl is now seven and a half months old. Doctors say she is doing well. They do admit it will be about a year before they can call the operation a success.

SAN MIGUEL: We will keep our fingers crossed.

Here's a look at what's ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING: At 8:30 a.m., we have Dr. Andrew Weil to discuss the safety and effectiveness of herbal supplements.

At 9:10 a.m., Amoon Thandi (ph) will share his expertise on the capture of al Qaeda suspects in Pakistan and the organization's efforts to regroup.

And at 9:45 a.m., get your rally caps on, William Moss from the Discovery Channel's new home improvement show, "Rally Around The House" will be a guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's look at the headlines at this hour.

Beginning in Taiwan, where the president Chen Shui-bian has apparently, according to his sources, won a narrow victory in his re- election bid. That is according to his own party sources.

Mr. Chen and the country's vice president survived an assassination attempt on Friday on the last day of campaigning. But Mr. Chen's opponent says the election was unfair and plans to file a complaint to annul the results.

About 100 suspected al Qaeda fighters reportedly have been captured in the mountainous frontier with Afghanistan. That's according to the Pakistani military. A senior military commander says he's not entirely certain that al Qaeda's number two man, Ayman al- Zawahiri, is in the area.

There are reports out of Afghanistan today of civilians killed in an airstrike. According to Reuters, local villagers say six Afghans died when U.S. warplanes bombed the area. The U.S. Military says it struck Taliban positions in the area and is unaware of any civilian casualties.

Stay tuned for "Weekend House Call."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 20, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The next half hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING begins right now.
From CNN Center in Atlanta, this CNN SATURDAY MORNING. March 20, making it the first day of spring.

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Officially, yes.

KAGAN: Good morning, once again, I'm Daryn Kagan.

SAN MIGUEL: I'm Renay San Miguel. We thank you for being with us this morning.

Kickback, grab a cup of coffee. Here's what we've got this hour. Fierce fighting in Pakistan. We have a live update on efforts to capture suspected al Qaeda fighters, including, possibly, the terror group's number two man.

A year after the start of the war in Iraq, we get a status check and protesters around the world share their views as well.

Plus, how safe are your supplements? Find out ahead in our "Weekend House Call."

KAGAN: Taking a look at the headlines at this hour, Pakistani military officials say they've captured about 100 suspected al Qaeda fighters in the mountainous border region with Afghanistan. A senior military commander says he is not entirely certain that al Qaeda's number two man, Ayman al-Zawahiri is in the area. The commander says it could be him, but could also be a local criminal.

There are reports out of Afghanistan today of civilians killed in an air strike. According to the Reuters, local villagers say that six Afghans died when U.S. warplanes bombed the area. The U.S. military says it struck Taliban positions in the area and is unaware of any civilian casualties.

In Taiwan, a senior aid to president Chen Shui-bian tells CNN he appears to have won election by a narrow margin. Chen and Vice President Annette Lu survived an assassination attempt on the last day of campaigning.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top story this hour, the pitched battle in Pakistan's rugged northwest mountains: Pakistan has taken about 100 suspected fighters into custody. But number two man, Ayman al-Zawahiri is not among them. CNN's Ash-har Quraishi joins us now by videophone, live from Islamabad, with the latest.

Ash-har?

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Renay.

They're moving into a fifth day of heavy fighting in the northwest Pakistan in the tribal areas, in this area known as South Waziristan. This is the heaviest battle Pakistani military forces have been fighting since they went into this area.

They say they have made some progress. They've taken eight compounds and cleared them out. And as you mentioned, they've captured about 100 suspects, including suspected al Qaeda fighters, as well as the tribesmen that have been harboring them.

Now, it's still unclear as to who this high valued target is. Now, intelligence sources have indicated it may be Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's number two. But on the ground, the corps commander said he couldn't say for certain.

There were radio intercepts that they had gotten in which they thought maybe it could be an Uzbek or Chechen militant of some significance, still unclear.

They still have not been able to clear the area, where they say that somewhere around 300 to 400 al Qaeda fighters are holed up and keeping an intense battle on their hands at this time.

Right now they're holding position. They have been bringing in the heavy artillery, small arms fire as well as helicopters gunships aiding in this effort. They've been pounding the area for about five days now, Renay.

It's been a very, very fierce battle, but until they get to the end of this and are able to take the entire area it won't become clear as to what that high value target is.

SAN MIGUEL: It is a battle that is still going on. We'll wait to hear from you later on this morning for more updates. Ash-har Quraishi live from Islamabad, thank so much.

KAGAN: In Washington, President Bush says the war on terror has made the U.S. and the rest of the world safer. Mr. Bush addressed a gathering of diplomats. Our White House Correspondent Dana Bash joins us live in our Washington bureau this morning.

Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

The president used his speech yesterday to rally nations to stay the course and continue to rebuild Iraq, also talked about the broader fight against terrorism, called it, a call for a generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BASH (voice over): On the year anniversary of the Iraq war that divided America and key allies, a call for unity on the broader war on terrorism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There can be no separate peace with the terrorist enemy. Any sign of weakness or retreat simply validates terrorist violence and invites more violence for all nations.

BASH: Last week's attack in Spain, the subsequent political defeat of an ally there, and deadly bombings in Iraq has the administration working to keep a shaky U.S.-led coalition together. The president cited attacks from Saudi Arabia to Russia, warning every nation is vulnerable.

BUSH: Each attack is designed to demoralize our people and divide us from one another.

BASH: In the White House East Room, officials from more than 80 nations, including France, Germany and Russia, who actively opposed the Iraq war. Mr. Bush said all now agree Saddam Hussein's removal makes the Middle East more safe.

BUSH: Those differences belong to the past.

BASH: But differences remain. France's foreign minister said Friday the world is a more dangerous place because of the Iraq war. Though security is still a problem, the transition to democracy facing challenges, the president called the day one year ago, he ordered air strikes, a day of deliverance.

BUSH: Who would prefer that Saddam's torture chambers still be open? Who would wish that more mass graves were still being filled?

BASH: Only a passing reference to weapons of mass destruction, the central argument for war, not yet found. Democrats immediately criticized the president for continuing to tie the war in Iraq to the war on terror.

WESLEY CLARK, (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We distracted ourselves from the focus on terrorism to go into Iraq, to a mission that I believe the Bush administration believed was sort of a low hanging fruit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: But the president, running for re-election on his wartime credentials, has good reason to link the two issues. Polls show the vast amount of Americans support him in his fight against terrorism, but they are divided on whether or not the war in Iraq was the right thing to do.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Dana Bash, on a Saturday morning out of our Washington bureau. Thank you. SAN MIGUEL: The suspect in the Ohio highway shooting case is expected to be returned to the state today. Charles McCoy, Jr. is accused of 24 shootings in the Columbus area, including one that was fatal. McCoy was arrested Wednesday in Las Vegas. Meanwhile, 911 tapes indicate the man who tipped police made 6 calls over nearly 12 hours trying to convince dispatchers and authorities that he had actually seen McCoy.

KAGAN: The anniversary of the war in Iraq is being marked by anti-war protests in many corners of the globe. One of the most dramatic you're watching along the side of Big Ben in London. Greenpeace says two of its members evaded security to scale the landmark clock tower. Thousands of anti-war demonstrators are expected to march through London later today.

In Japan, organizers say up to 30,000 demonstrators in Tokyo are protesting that country's presence in Iraq, which is actually growing today. A convoy of about 130 troops crossed into southern Iraq from Kuwait. They'll join about 250 Japanese troops already deployed in the town of Samar (ph).

SAN MIGUEL: U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan proposes an independent inquiry into Iraq's Oil For Food program. The uninitiated humanitarian effort has been rocked by widespread allegations of corruption. Thursday the General Accounting Office claimed that Saddam Hussein took in $10 billion from illegal revenues from the program. An internal U.N. probe has already been launched to see if any U.N. employees profited from the program along with oil traders.

When it comes to casualties in Iraq, most reporting in the U.S. has been about American forces who have been killed. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke about that last time on CNN's "Larry King Live" and says Iraqis are paying a much higher price to secure their own democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There are many more Iraqi security forces than there are Americans or coalition forces, and they're doing the job. So we don't report in the United States the extent which Iraqi security people are being killed, but there are many more being killed than there are coalition forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: To date, 572 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq over the past year. Most of them have died since President Bush declared major combat was over May 1.

KAGAN: We want to know what your thoughts are on the progress of war in Iraq. E-mail us at WAM@CNN.com

Out of the closet and into court, our legal team debates the fate of a Methodist minister.

Are you taking herbal supplements? We'll help you sort out the good, the bad and the stuff in the middle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have the Tyco trial in New York City. Jurors will resume deliberations next week. We have former executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are on trial for allegedly plundering the company of hundreds of millions of dollars. That is going to kick off our "Legal Roundtable" with civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez- Tasaff and former prosecutor Nelda Blair.

Good morning, ladies. Thanks for being with us.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASAFF, PRES. ACLU OF MIAMI: Good morning.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

KAGAN: Lida, let's go ahead and start with you. The jury barely had gone to start deliberations and they come out and they say "What do you mean by criminal intentions." What do you take from that?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: It's a definite good sign for the defense. The issue here is not the lifestyles of Kozlowski and Swartz. The issue here is whether or not they took this money, the bonuses and the loans, without the consent or approval of the board.

The defense has pointed out there were 37 board meetings that took place where no minutes were taken. And as the defense pointed out were what were they doing, hanging out? They say that during the board meetings the board approved every single one of the bonuses and loans. If they're right, then the jury is asking about the criminal intent issue because they're likely to acquit on those charges.

BLAIR: I completely disagree.

KAGAN: You're kidding.

BLAIR: I know --

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: I'm shocked, Nelda. We're shocked.

BLAIR: I realize that. When a jury starts asking detailed questions about each count and about each aspect of each count it means they are very seriously considering them separately, and they have not gone in there and said, look, these guys really aren't guilty. Let's let them go. Which is what the defense wants them to do.

They want a jury to come out quick and say we just don't believe they did anything wrong. But not this jury, no, no. They're doing the same thing the Martha Stewart jury did. They're analyzing it very carefully. They're asking specific questions. They're looking for a way to convict.

KAGAN: Funny that you bring up Martha Stewart. Because that is the next question I have here. Does what happened to her and Peter Bacanovic, does that influence juries, do you think? It shows the direction that people are going in, Lida? RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: I don't think so. Juries are wonderful. This is why we have a jury system in this country. Juries analyze the case that's put in front of them.

What they're going to look at here, as Nelda said, is they're going to look carefully at the evidence. And I think that what they're going to find with regard to the larceny charges is that the prosecution did not prove its case. That lifestyle doesn't mean theft.

Lifestyle just means, you know, just an obnoxious way of living they're not going to convict simply because these people lived in a house where, you know the maids curtain was worth $6,000. They're going to convict on the facts and this jury has nothing to do with Martha's jury.

KAGAN: But, Nelda, isn't there something weird in the world when one action that's taken doesn't affect as many people compared to a huge corporation -- that something's out of whack, say for the sake of conversation that Kozlowski and Swartz get off and they're not found guilty?

BLAIR: Well, if they're not found guilty I'd say yes, something is out of whack. Because what the prosecution has proven here is not that these two men made millions of dollars and spent millions of dollars. You know what? That's OK in America. What's not OK is to have a company that is owned by a bunch of other people called shareholders, and to spend that company's money on your wife's birthday, your penthouse in New York, your trips and your personal piggy bank money. You cannot do that in America. And that's what this jury is going find they did wrong.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: But Nelda, you know very well the issue here isn't whether or not they spent this money, even if it's Tyco's money. The issue here is whether or not the board approved it. That's what it boils down to.

BLAIR: Well, the testimony of several of the directors is that they did not authorize them to spend hundreds of millions of dollars like they did. So I disagree with you, Lida. I think they'll be found guilty. Maybe they'll talk about it later.

KAGAN: Let's talk about a different topic right now, and that is on the West Coast. It involves a woman who has come out and said that she is a lesbian. She is the Reverend Karen Damon and she is now on trial within the United Methodist Church.

The charge, that she has practices that are declared, by the United Methodist Church, to be incompatible with Christian teachings. What's at stake here? She can be stripped of her ministry for being a homosexual. Any comments on that, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. That's why we have separation of church and state. This is a church trial. The church is going to do what it's going to do. Whether they convict or acquit, we in civil society have really no say. It's kind of cool because it's happening at a time when there's incredible religious strive in the world, and we should be very proud of this trial, because nobody from the government is running in there saying, you must listen to the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Nobody's going you must acquit this woman, because the Constitution says so.

This is about separation of church and state and it is an incredible lesson as to why Americans' democracy system works so well.

KAGAN: Yes, we do want to be -- you're making a good point here, this is not a criminal trial.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Right.

KAGAN: Or any kind of legal trial. This is happening within a church.

BLAIR: Exactly.

KAGAN: But Nelda, do you think some people will have a problem with what they consider a form of discrimination being referred to as cool and a good thing?

BLAIR: Well, possibly, because you know, this is actually, it is a very -- it's a very serious trial.

This trial, yes, it's within the United Methodist Church, but it consists of a 13-member jury of clergymen. It consists of a jury pool where two lawyers actually picked the jury just like you would in a trial court, if it were a government setting. And it's also beginning/closing arguments, opening arguments, witnesses. It has a judge. And this lady is on trial for her clergyship.

And the reason is because the United Methodist Church law, which was just endorsed again in the past couple of years, says that self- avowed homosexuals cannot be ordained as clergy. It's the law. It's very simple. Her lesbianism is not on trial. Whether or not she violated church law is on trial.

KAGAN: It is interesting, and I know this happens in the legal law all the time, too. There seems to be a conflict in that it does have that rule that you can't be a member of clergy if you're homosexual, within that church. But also the church's own social principles call for supporting the rights and liberties of homosexuals.

BLAIR: That's right.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's really kind of interesting because the church recognizes there's a difference between civil society and religious beliefs. And what the church is trying to do, itself, is separate the two.

And what's interesting about this case, is that whether or not the church convicts or acquits is irrelevant in civil society. Just as, for example, with regard to the Catholic Church, they don't believe in ordaining women priests. And in civil society we'd consider that gender discrimination.

The two can coexist, religious doctrine and religious freedom can coexist with government decisions and the way that civil society is run. That's why this is a fascinating trial.

KAGAN: That's going to be -- I'm sorry, Nelda, that is going to have to be the final word.

BLAIR: OK, all right.

KAGAN: You bring up of the topic of women priests in the Catholic Church, we have to have you back just to go on that one. A great way to wrap it up with more conversation. Nelda Blair and Lida Rodriguez-Taseff. Thank you so much for your time, Ladies, appreciate it.

BLAIR: You bet.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thanks, Daryn.

KAGAN: You told me it was going to get out of control.

SAN MIGUEL: Oh, no, not at all.

KAGAN: They were very well-behaved.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, it depends on the topic with them. They were very well-behaved, but sometimes they can take it up a level.

KAGAN: Downright civil. I thought they were lovely.

SAN MIGUEL: The idea that they would agree on anything. That would be breaking news.

KAGAN: True.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Time now for a check of the top stories making headlines.

Taiwan's president has narrowly won his bid for re-election, party sources tell CNN. The close election comes a day after President Chen Shui-bian and his vice president survived an assassination attempt. Neither were seriously hurt.

Back here in the States, the Army has dropped all charges against U.S. Army Chaplain James Yee. He was originally accused of espionage at the terrorist detention camp at Guantanamo Bay and of mishandling classified information. He was never charged with espionage.

KAGAN: Time to talk about our e-mail question of the day. Once again: Do you think Iraqis are better off now than they were a year ago, before the war began? SAN MIGUEL: And Susan, from Kansas, makes it very short and sweet.

"No, the Iraqis are not better off than a year ago. It will take a very long time."

KAGAN: Right to the point. We appreciate that.

Cedar Key, Florida is where is where AJ is, and he writes: "Of course, they are much better off today than last year. We should all be happy about that not trying to turn it around."

Thank you for your responses. Send in more. Wam@cnn.com, our address.

Some health news for you now: Doctors in Miami have revealed they performed an eight-organ transplant on a six-month-old girl. The 12-hour operation was done seven weeks ago and replaced her digestive system. The little Italian girl is now seven and a half months old. Doctors say she is doing well. They do admit it will be about a year before they can call the operation a success.

SAN MIGUEL: We will keep our fingers crossed.

Here's a look at what's ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING: At 8:30 a.m., we have Dr. Andrew Weil to discuss the safety and effectiveness of herbal supplements.

At 9:10 a.m., Amoon Thandi (ph) will share his expertise on the capture of al Qaeda suspects in Pakistan and the organization's efforts to regroup.

And at 9:45 a.m., get your rally caps on, William Moss from the Discovery Channel's new home improvement show, "Rally Around The House" will be a guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's look at the headlines at this hour.

Beginning in Taiwan, where the president Chen Shui-bian has apparently, according to his sources, won a narrow victory in his re- election bid. That is according to his own party sources.

Mr. Chen and the country's vice president survived an assassination attempt on Friday on the last day of campaigning. But Mr. Chen's opponent says the election was unfair and plans to file a complaint to annul the results.

About 100 suspected al Qaeda fighters reportedly have been captured in the mountainous frontier with Afghanistan. That's according to the Pakistani military. A senior military commander says he's not entirely certain that al Qaeda's number two man, Ayman al- Zawahiri, is in the area.

There are reports out of Afghanistan today of civilians killed in an airstrike. According to Reuters, local villagers say six Afghans died when U.S. warplanes bombed the area. The U.S. Military says it struck Taliban positions in the area and is unaware of any civilian casualties.

Stay tuned for "Weekend House Call."

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