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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Nelda Blair and Rodriguez-Taseff
Aired May 08, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING for May 8. I'm Thomas Roberts.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Sophia Choi. Thanks so much for being with us.
ROBERTS: Well, we have plenty of news for you this morning. So grab a cup coffee and sit down.
You know, he swore to tell the truth and the details were shocking to some people. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is up on Capitol Hill for a very public dressing down.
And then, welcome home. Former Iraqi captor Thomas Hamill steps on to American soil again ending a very incredible ordeal. We're going to have a report coming up from his hometown.
And then Sanjay, the fire-eater? Sounds pretty odd, but our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta is proving that some assignments can get pretty heated. Sanjay is going to show you life beyond limits a little later on this morning.
CHOI: But first, the headlines at this hour.
Former Iraqi captive Thomas Hamill is spending the morning at home. Hamill and his wife touched down in Mississippi early today amid cheer and prayers from family and friends. A larger celebration has been put on hold. Hamill says he just wants to spend some private time with his family right now. We'll have more in a live report just ahead.
One U.S. Marine is dead this morning after a gunfight in south central Afghanistan. Another was injured. The Marines say they were attack by enemy combatants, two of whom died in the battle. The Marines were sent to the area about two weeks ago to provide security for election registration.
And police in Germany say a high school student is responsible for the damaging Sasser computer worm. Yesterday, they arrested an 18-yearly as part of their investigation. Over the past week, Sasser wormed its way through hundreds of thousands of PCs worldwide, hitting businesses and home computers alike.
Also, wire reports quote President Bush as saying, "The United States remains committed to the road map for peace in the Middle East." But the president says establishing a Palestinian state by 2005 is not as realistic as it was two years ago. Mr. Bush made the comments in an interview with an Egyptian newspaper "al Ahram."
Four people are dead and one is missing, after a pleasure boat capsized in the Taunton River near Fall River, Massachusetts. A survivor, a 14-year-old boy, swam to shore and called 911 for help. A search is still under way for that missing woman.
ROBERTS: In depth for you this hour, an embattled defense secretary answers questions in his own defense. Donald Rumsfeld was the focus of attention yesterday as members of both Houses of Congress zeroed in on charges of Iraqi prisoner abuse. And in case you missed it, here are the major points: Rumsfeld warded off calls for has resignation saying he's going to stay on the job as long as he's effective, he also accepted responsibility for the way the scandal broke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: If there is a failure, it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds or however many there are of these things, that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done. But I certainly never gave the president the -- a briefing with the impact that one would have, had you seen the photographs or the videos. I mean let there be no doubt about that. He was just as blindsided as the Congress, and me, and everyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And surprising to some, Rumsfeld also issued a warning that it may not be over with just yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: There are other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman. Second, there are many more photographs, and indeed, some videos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHOI: Meantime, President Bush is at the presidential retreat at Camp David today. He spent yesterday at some carefully orchestrated stops in the heartland of Iowa and Wisconsin. But he still did not escape the prisoner abuse scandal boiling over in Washington.
Let's go now to our White House correspondent Dana Bash.
Good morning, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia. And before the president left Wisconsin last night, where he was on a campaign bus about tour, he called the secretary of defense to congratulate him. and to say he was told he had done a really good job in his testimony before Congress. Now, the president was given frequent updates from the road on the hearings we are told. And unlike the beginning of the week, when Mr. Bush did not say anything at all on the campaign trail about the storm brewing back in Washington, and of course, around the world, over the Iraqi prisoner abuse issue, he did mention the issue at all three speeches yesterday in Iowa and Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The abhorrent pictures are on our TV screens have stained our honor. They do not reflect the nature of the men and women we have sent overseas. We've sent decent, compassioned, honorable, sacrificing citizens.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, a senior administration official says the president told staff he felt that since all eyes were on Rumsfeld and his testimony, he didn't want to appear as if he were to distance or even ducking what was going on back in Washington. Now Rumsfeld, as we just heard repeatedly, told members of Congress he was accountable. But that he would not resign. And even though the defense secretary did tell one senator it's possible stepping down would help restore U.S. credibility, Bush aides say the president is as unambiguous in private as he is in public, that his defense secretary should not resign -- Sophia.
CHOI: So, at this point, no word on which way the president is leaning?
BASH: The word is that the president is leaning very much towards the fact that he doesn't want his defense secretary to resign at all. Even though, of course, we did hear yesterday even during the hearings, lots of questions asking whether or not Mr. Rumsfeld should step down, whether that would be for the good of the country and the U.S. credibility around the world. The White House is staying that the president is saying just as he said in public, the same thing he's saying in private, that he doesn't want his defense secretary to resign. That it's not a fire able offense and that they want to essentially try to move on beyond that.
CHOI: Yes. But clearly, we heard earlier that the president was pretty ticked off that he didn't know right up from the start about these pictures.
BASH: That's right. We were told by an administration official that the president told the secretary, in a private meeting in the Oval Office, that he was not happy about it. But what they say at the White House is that Donald Rumsfeld said he didn't know about it either. So this is a problem that is sorter of is broader than they think, than secretary Rumsfeld. So at this point, they are trying to make it very clear, the president himself said it a couple of times now in public, that he doesn't think that it's appropriate for the defense secretary to resign. You know, obviously, you heard the defense secretary say that things could get worse; that a video could come out, that more pictures could come out. So we'll see where it goes from here. But at this point, they are really sticking by that, saying that the president, in private is saying that he does not want him to resign, just as he is in public.
CHOI: All right. Dana Bash, thank you so much.
BASH: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Well, there is some good news for President Bush when it comes to the economy. The government is reporting the creation of 288,000 new jobs last month. Now that lowers the unemployment rate 1/10 percent to 5.6 percent. While, more than 2 million jobs lost on the president's watch has been a prominent campaign issue, especially in key industrial swing states.
CHOI: But it's the budget deficit that concerns Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. He says huge deficits threaten the long-term stability of Social Security and Medicare unless reforms are made. The Bush administration estimates deficits will reach $521 billion this year.
ROBERTS: Well, former Iraqi captive, Thomas Hamill is back home with his family and his friends today after touching down in Columbus, Mississippi, earlier.
CNN's Mike Brooks joins us now live from Macon, bringing us more on Hamill's happy homecoming.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tommy Hamill returned home early this morning to a crowd of friends and supporters in Columbus, Mississippi. The highway patrol drove him to his home in Macon and dropped him off at his doorstep. A large celebration that was being planned by town officials has been put on hold for now. Some people were disappointed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were a little disappointed but we still think maybe we'll get to do something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I was looking forward to it.
BROOKS (on camera): You were?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was looking forward to it. I was one of the planning committees, so I was looking forward to it.
BROOKS: We talked to a family spokesperson a short time ago who said "Tommy is doing fine and his family is glad to have him home."
Mike Brooks, CNN, Macon, Mississippi.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CHOI: Ask any military family and they'll tell you just as soon as a loved one is deployed, Murphy's Law kick in, the car starts breaking down the computer crashes, the plumbing leaks. Huh?
Thelma Gutierrez shows us how one military town is taking care of its own.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Operation Homefront, our continuing commitment to military families whose loved ones are deployed.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The call goes out every day over the airwaves in San Diego.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And husbands in the Marines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he's in Fallujah right now.
GUTIERREZ: Military families calling in with special needs.
SANDY ALDRIDGE, OPERATION HOMEFRONT: Request for help with a lawn mower.
GUTIERREZ: Operation Homefront screens calls and finds volunteers willing to help out.
ALDRIDGE: So if anybody has some mattresses out there.
GUTIERREZ: Hundreds heeded that call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just felt it was time to do something.
GUTIERREZ: A computer store, a plumbing company and an auto repair shop.
(on camera): Why did you decide that it was important to come forward?
Well, the military people are a big part of our community here.
GUTIERREZ: Randy Timmons is part of that community.
RANDY TIMMONS, MILITARY WIFE: You could smell it kind of burning.
GUTIERREZ: She found herself in a fix when her car broke down. Normally she'd turn to her husband Lance Corporeal Robert Timmons, but he's in Iraq. Other auto shops were no help.
TIMMONS: They are like you have a blown head gasket. That will be $1,000. And I was like I don't have $1,000. So well, there's nothing we can do for you then.
GUTIERREZ: Perfect Auto came through. On a day when temperatures hit 103, Yolanda Cole's AC unit was blowing hot air. YOLANDA COLE, MILITARY WIFE: It's hard when you're by yourself, you know, what to do.
GUTIERREZ: With her husband, Staff Sergeant Cole in Iraq, Yolanda was helped out by Frank Otesta's company.
FRANK OTESTA, BUSINESSMAN: We decided that, that system needs to be replaced.
GUTIERREZ: The company absorbed all the costs.
COLE: It's been a placing.
GUTIERREZ: Aside from the money, those who have been deployed have one less thing to worry about back home.
ALDRIDGE: They've got a job to do over there. They don't need to be worried about these day-to-day issue.
MIKE LEVY, OPERATION HOME FRONT: Hi, how are you?
I'm OK.
JULIA JIYA, MILITARY WIFE: I'm supposed to come pick up a computer?
GUTIERREZ: Julia Jiya (ph) will finally have a way to communicate with her husband William overseas.
You carry that.
GUTIERREZ: She's one of 700 military families to get a refurbished computer from Mike Levy.
LEVY: Just trying to give back. We've experienced some good fortune.
JIYA: And it's great that there's people out there in the civilian world that will help the military.
GUTIERREZ: Operation Homefront has help more than 4,000 military families in two years. A model other cities are following.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, San Diego.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Kobe Bryant heads back to Colorado, but not for the NBA playoffs. We'll fill you in on his case.
And can you believe this guy? Talk about getting whacked. Dr. Sanjay Gupta goes extreme in this weekend's "House CALL." You've got to stay with us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: All right. Well, in case you missed it, the Detroit Pistons powered past the New Jersey Nets, winning 95-80. The Pistons lead the best of seven series two games to none. Game 3, that's tomorrow night in New Jersey
CHOI: And good morning to the city of the big dig, Boston, that is. We'll have your complete weather forecast in less than two minutes. CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: In our legal briefs today, two stories dominating the headlines this week and likely next week as well. The first, the case against Kobe Bryant. He's expected to enter a formal plea next week. The other story out there is the Oregon attorney who was taken into custody this week in connection with the investigation of the Madrid train bombings.
Joining us now to get to the nitty-gritty in both cases our legal eagles. Former prosecutor Nelda Blair from Houston.
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
ROBERTS: And civil rights attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Miami. Ladies, good morning. Great to have you with us, as always.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, PRESIDENT, ACLU-MIAMI: Good morning.
BLAIR: Thanks.
ROBERTS: OK. So let's start talking about Kobe Bryant and what's gone on this week. Then we'll get into what's coming for us in the beginning of next week.
Nelda, to you, a big thing that came out this week was the fact that the defense doesn't want the woman in this called the "victim" anymore. They want her to be called the "complaining witness." Why?
BLAIR: Because they are doing everything they can to focus on her and try her instead of trying Kobe Bryant. That's what the defense does. They are taking every piece of the prosecution's case, trying to pick it apart. and every time they get some kind of road down like that, some time down the road it helps them with their case. So if they can call this woman anything but a victim, then it helps Kobe Bryant. I'm sure that's what they want to do.
ROBERTS: Lida, do you agree?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not. No. Nelda, that's ridiculous. You know very well that a victim is only a victim when a person has been convicted. There has been no conviction in this case. Kobe Bryant is innocent until proven guilty. At most, this woman is an alleged victim, a complainant. Or you can call her by her name and treat them equally. He's Kobe Bryant. She's X. So there's no reason why it shouldn't be just as easy to give her a title that is respectful in the same way that you give him. You call him by his name. You call her by her name.
ROBERTS: Right. How did I know you ladies would disagree on that point?
BLAIR: Yes.
ROBERTS: What about the TV camera issue in the courtroom? Now a TV camera is going to be allowed into -- I guess they call it for expanded media coverage. It's not going to be more than one camera and also one still camera. How do you think that's going to change the way things play out with the -- especially the defense table and prosecution table, the lawyers?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, the camera is going to be in the back of the room. Or the cameras are going to be in the back of the room, and they're only going to capture the moment of the arraignment. So it's, you know, hey, it's no big deal. Small victory for the First Amendment. I'm not all that terribly excited. Cameras have literally been kept out of most of the proceedings in this case. Basically denying the public the right to know what's going on in a prosecution that's being brought in their name.
BLAIR: Oh, Lida! It denies the public the right to make this more of a circus. And that's all that's going to do. Cameras in the courtroom can only help to enhance the circus image. Because whether they are in the back or whether they are hidden behind a screen, the lawyers and the witnesses and everybody in that courtroom knows they are on camera. They are going to act different. They are human beings. I don't think it's a good idea.
ROBERTS: Nelda, you know some people probably think that Kobe Bryant has already formally enter his plea, because there's been so much coverage of this case, there's been so many hearings. But that hasn't happened yet. It's going to happen this week. Why the delay? Is it a strategic move?
BLAIR: Well, there's been so many pretrial hearings, so much going on so far in this case. And the judge, once they have -- once the judge sets the plea time -- yes, you are right, you haven't heard Kobe Bryant say not guilty yet. But once he actually formally makes that plea, then it sets into motion the speedy trial rule. and he has to be tried within six months. So they were trying to get a lot of things taken care of before then. A lot of these pretrial hearings and they've got a whole lot more coming this week. But once Kobe enters that plea, we're on our way.
ROBERTS: Want to shift gears and talk about this new case coming to us out of Oregon. A 37-year-old man that's been detained as a material witness in the Madrid train bombings. He's been detained because fingerprints were found on some type of evidence in Madrid.
Lida, what does it say to you he's being detained as a material witness?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this case is based on conjecture and suspicion; all fueled by leaks from unnamed government sources speak on conditions of anonymity. So we don't really know what this is all about. Now, the fact that he's being held as a material witness, now the material witness statute is used supposedly to hold people who have information and you want them to testify in front of the grand jury.
The government has been using it after September 11 to hold people who they don't have any good cases on, who they can't charge with crimes because they don't have any evidence. and this is what this is probably going to turn into, just another one of those cases where the government wanted to hold somebody but didn't really have any basis to do it on.
BLAIR: Oh, my...
ROBERTS: It has been coming to us they are allowed to hold them under the Patriot Act. And can hold them secretly; detain them for as long as they want.
Nelda, in you opinion, would it have been easier or better off for this guy to have just been arrested and charged with something?
BLAIR: Well, they may not have the evidence yet to charge him. But let me say this, there is more to this story than we know. This man's fingerprints were found on evidence that is connected to the Madrid bombings. That is huge. We are trying to prevent that type of thing from happening in the U.S. in the near future, and I say, if it takes holding somebody who is clearly connected, hold them.
ROBERTS: But Nelda, what his fingerprints? How is he already in an international database that they would have access to match up his fingerprints from Madrid to Oregon?
BLAIR: Well, he may not be in the database. He actually may have been because he was connected to one of the, as we call, the Portland Seven, the folks that pleaded guilty to conspiring to go to war against the U.S. with al Qaeda, he represented one of those in a custody battle. And so, they may have just been investigating anybody that was remotely connected. But it also maybe that he may has his fingerprints in from being an officer of the court in Oregon. Sometimes that's done in the states. It doesn't matter. What matter is that they match. Evidence found at the Madrid scene. And I think they need to hold the guy.
ROBERTS: And Lida, your opinion.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: But Nelda, you know very well that there is doubt as to whether or not they match. Spanish officials are saying that there wasn't a match. That they never found the match; that you know, even the FBI doesn't think there's a match. So what's going to come out in the next week is going to be probably that the FBI jumped the gun. You're already starting to see some of those signs of the oops, because now the FBI is saying, well, gee, we had to go run and arrest him because there were all these leaks about him being arrested.
BLAIR: No. No. No. ROBERTS: Ladies, we'll see what happens in the week to come. We'll be following...
BLAIR: My prediction is it will be a lot more.
ROBERTS: Well we'll see what happens in the week to come. Nelda Blair and Lida Rodriguez-Taseff. As always, ladies thanks so much.
BLAIR: Thank you.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
CHOI: Well, take a look at this video. That is no strong man with the traveling circus. That is our Dr. Sanjay Gupta. There he is, he takes us to the limits of the body ahead on this weekend's "HOUSE CALL.
ROBERTS: Cinder block. Look at that.
CHOI: Ouch!
ROBERTS: A cinder block on his chest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHOI: And welcome back to CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
ROBERTS: Want to shift gears and talk about this morning's e- mail question. It's a math quiz from a professor at Georgia Tech University. All right, here it is. Say you are at a birthday with 22 of your friend. What are the odds one of them has your same birthday? Also, what are the odds that any two people in the room have the same birthday?
CHOI: Here's professor Mucha with a clue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER MUCHA, ASST. PROFESSOR, GEORGIA TECH. UNIV.: Here's your first clue. Assume the probabilities of different birthdays are independent. That is one friend's birthday is independent of another friend's birthday. So the odds that one of your guests -- a given guest has precisely the birthday you have is 1 in 365. Again, forgetting about leap days. So what are the probabilities that two of your guests, a given two guests, both have the same birthday that you have. If probabilities are independent, and you multiply the probabilities of independent events. The probability that both of these guests your birthday are 1 over 365 times 1 over 365 or a paltry small fraction of a percent. More clues later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Oh, I feel a little drowsy now.
CHOI: You know what Thomas? You might not even pay that close of attention because you think you'll get it on your own? Please. ROBERTS: All right. Here's one of our emails that came into us earlier. It says that 1/365 times, 1/365 times, that makes it one, blah, blah, blah, as you see on your screen, equals...
CHOI: Yes, blah, blah, blah, that's a real mathematical term.
ROBERTS: Yes, blah, blah, blah. Well, now you can tell how I did in math in school. Here, there's this one, right?
CHOI: All right. And here from Phil: the probability is half for both, strange, but true.
ROBERTS: Now, if you want to write into us and your blah, blah, blah, you can e-mail us your answers at wam@cnn.com. We're going to have another clue coming your way. That's in the next half hour right here. So keep it with us because coming up, we're also going to be talking with the professor. He's going to join us live for the answer.
Also took a poll of 23 people here in the newsroom to see if the equation works out. Our confidential envelope...
CHOI: Yes. I've got it right here.
ROBERTS: ... that gets opened in the 9:00 hour. Can't miss that.
CHOI: Yes. Got to wait for that.
ROBERTS: Uh-huh.
CHOI: All right. There is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, including opening that up.
At 8:30, a.m. Eastern Standard Time, Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores living beyond limits and just how much the human body can actually handle.
And at 9:00, we will tackle the issue of a free press in Iraq. Balancing the issues of truth, information and security.
And at 9:30 a.m., the legendary tenor Placido Domingo enters the "Novak Zone" to talk about what's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 8, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING for May 8. I'm Thomas Roberts.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Sophia Choi. Thanks so much for being with us.
ROBERTS: Well, we have plenty of news for you this morning. So grab a cup coffee and sit down.
You know, he swore to tell the truth and the details were shocking to some people. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is up on Capitol Hill for a very public dressing down.
And then, welcome home. Former Iraqi captor Thomas Hamill steps on to American soil again ending a very incredible ordeal. We're going to have a report coming up from his hometown.
And then Sanjay, the fire-eater? Sounds pretty odd, but our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta is proving that some assignments can get pretty heated. Sanjay is going to show you life beyond limits a little later on this morning.
CHOI: But first, the headlines at this hour.
Former Iraqi captive Thomas Hamill is spending the morning at home. Hamill and his wife touched down in Mississippi early today amid cheer and prayers from family and friends. A larger celebration has been put on hold. Hamill says he just wants to spend some private time with his family right now. We'll have more in a live report just ahead.
One U.S. Marine is dead this morning after a gunfight in south central Afghanistan. Another was injured. The Marines say they were attack by enemy combatants, two of whom died in the battle. The Marines were sent to the area about two weeks ago to provide security for election registration.
And police in Germany say a high school student is responsible for the damaging Sasser computer worm. Yesterday, they arrested an 18-yearly as part of their investigation. Over the past week, Sasser wormed its way through hundreds of thousands of PCs worldwide, hitting businesses and home computers alike.
Also, wire reports quote President Bush as saying, "The United States remains committed to the road map for peace in the Middle East." But the president says establishing a Palestinian state by 2005 is not as realistic as it was two years ago. Mr. Bush made the comments in an interview with an Egyptian newspaper "al Ahram."
Four people are dead and one is missing, after a pleasure boat capsized in the Taunton River near Fall River, Massachusetts. A survivor, a 14-year-old boy, swam to shore and called 911 for help. A search is still under way for that missing woman.
ROBERTS: In depth for you this hour, an embattled defense secretary answers questions in his own defense. Donald Rumsfeld was the focus of attention yesterday as members of both Houses of Congress zeroed in on charges of Iraqi prisoner abuse. And in case you missed it, here are the major points: Rumsfeld warded off calls for has resignation saying he's going to stay on the job as long as he's effective, he also accepted responsibility for the way the scandal broke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: If there is a failure, it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds or however many there are of these things, that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done. But I certainly never gave the president the -- a briefing with the impact that one would have, had you seen the photographs or the videos. I mean let there be no doubt about that. He was just as blindsided as the Congress, and me, and everyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And surprising to some, Rumsfeld also issued a warning that it may not be over with just yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: There are other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman. Second, there are many more photographs, and indeed, some videos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHOI: Meantime, President Bush is at the presidential retreat at Camp David today. He spent yesterday at some carefully orchestrated stops in the heartland of Iowa and Wisconsin. But he still did not escape the prisoner abuse scandal boiling over in Washington.
Let's go now to our White House correspondent Dana Bash.
Good morning, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia. And before the president left Wisconsin last night, where he was on a campaign bus about tour, he called the secretary of defense to congratulate him. and to say he was told he had done a really good job in his testimony before Congress. Now, the president was given frequent updates from the road on the hearings we are told. And unlike the beginning of the week, when Mr. Bush did not say anything at all on the campaign trail about the storm brewing back in Washington, and of course, around the world, over the Iraqi prisoner abuse issue, he did mention the issue at all three speeches yesterday in Iowa and Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The abhorrent pictures are on our TV screens have stained our honor. They do not reflect the nature of the men and women we have sent overseas. We've sent decent, compassioned, honorable, sacrificing citizens.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, a senior administration official says the president told staff he felt that since all eyes were on Rumsfeld and his testimony, he didn't want to appear as if he were to distance or even ducking what was going on back in Washington. Now Rumsfeld, as we just heard repeatedly, told members of Congress he was accountable. But that he would not resign. And even though the defense secretary did tell one senator it's possible stepping down would help restore U.S. credibility, Bush aides say the president is as unambiguous in private as he is in public, that his defense secretary should not resign -- Sophia.
CHOI: So, at this point, no word on which way the president is leaning?
BASH: The word is that the president is leaning very much towards the fact that he doesn't want his defense secretary to resign at all. Even though, of course, we did hear yesterday even during the hearings, lots of questions asking whether or not Mr. Rumsfeld should step down, whether that would be for the good of the country and the U.S. credibility around the world. The White House is staying that the president is saying just as he said in public, the same thing he's saying in private, that he doesn't want his defense secretary to resign. That it's not a fire able offense and that they want to essentially try to move on beyond that.
CHOI: Yes. But clearly, we heard earlier that the president was pretty ticked off that he didn't know right up from the start about these pictures.
BASH: That's right. We were told by an administration official that the president told the secretary, in a private meeting in the Oval Office, that he was not happy about it. But what they say at the White House is that Donald Rumsfeld said he didn't know about it either. So this is a problem that is sorter of is broader than they think, than secretary Rumsfeld. So at this point, they are trying to make it very clear, the president himself said it a couple of times now in public, that he doesn't think that it's appropriate for the defense secretary to resign. You know, obviously, you heard the defense secretary say that things could get worse; that a video could come out, that more pictures could come out. So we'll see where it goes from here. But at this point, they are really sticking by that, saying that the president, in private is saying that he does not want him to resign, just as he is in public.
CHOI: All right. Dana Bash, thank you so much.
BASH: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Well, there is some good news for President Bush when it comes to the economy. The government is reporting the creation of 288,000 new jobs last month. Now that lowers the unemployment rate 1/10 percent to 5.6 percent. While, more than 2 million jobs lost on the president's watch has been a prominent campaign issue, especially in key industrial swing states.
CHOI: But it's the budget deficit that concerns Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. He says huge deficits threaten the long-term stability of Social Security and Medicare unless reforms are made. The Bush administration estimates deficits will reach $521 billion this year.
ROBERTS: Well, former Iraqi captive, Thomas Hamill is back home with his family and his friends today after touching down in Columbus, Mississippi, earlier.
CNN's Mike Brooks joins us now live from Macon, bringing us more on Hamill's happy homecoming.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tommy Hamill returned home early this morning to a crowd of friends and supporters in Columbus, Mississippi. The highway patrol drove him to his home in Macon and dropped him off at his doorstep. A large celebration that was being planned by town officials has been put on hold for now. Some people were disappointed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were a little disappointed but we still think maybe we'll get to do something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I was looking forward to it.
BROOKS (on camera): You were?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was looking forward to it. I was one of the planning committees, so I was looking forward to it.
BROOKS: We talked to a family spokesperson a short time ago who said "Tommy is doing fine and his family is glad to have him home."
Mike Brooks, CNN, Macon, Mississippi.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CHOI: Ask any military family and they'll tell you just as soon as a loved one is deployed, Murphy's Law kick in, the car starts breaking down the computer crashes, the plumbing leaks. Huh?
Thelma Gutierrez shows us how one military town is taking care of its own.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Operation Homefront, our continuing commitment to military families whose loved ones are deployed.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The call goes out every day over the airwaves in San Diego.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And husbands in the Marines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he's in Fallujah right now.
GUTIERREZ: Military families calling in with special needs.
SANDY ALDRIDGE, OPERATION HOMEFRONT: Request for help with a lawn mower.
GUTIERREZ: Operation Homefront screens calls and finds volunteers willing to help out.
ALDRIDGE: So if anybody has some mattresses out there.
GUTIERREZ: Hundreds heeded that call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just felt it was time to do something.
GUTIERREZ: A computer store, a plumbing company and an auto repair shop.
(on camera): Why did you decide that it was important to come forward?
Well, the military people are a big part of our community here.
GUTIERREZ: Randy Timmons is part of that community.
RANDY TIMMONS, MILITARY WIFE: You could smell it kind of burning.
GUTIERREZ: She found herself in a fix when her car broke down. Normally she'd turn to her husband Lance Corporeal Robert Timmons, but he's in Iraq. Other auto shops were no help.
TIMMONS: They are like you have a blown head gasket. That will be $1,000. And I was like I don't have $1,000. So well, there's nothing we can do for you then.
GUTIERREZ: Perfect Auto came through. On a day when temperatures hit 103, Yolanda Cole's AC unit was blowing hot air. YOLANDA COLE, MILITARY WIFE: It's hard when you're by yourself, you know, what to do.
GUTIERREZ: With her husband, Staff Sergeant Cole in Iraq, Yolanda was helped out by Frank Otesta's company.
FRANK OTESTA, BUSINESSMAN: We decided that, that system needs to be replaced.
GUTIERREZ: The company absorbed all the costs.
COLE: It's been a placing.
GUTIERREZ: Aside from the money, those who have been deployed have one less thing to worry about back home.
ALDRIDGE: They've got a job to do over there. They don't need to be worried about these day-to-day issue.
MIKE LEVY, OPERATION HOME FRONT: Hi, how are you?
I'm OK.
JULIA JIYA, MILITARY WIFE: I'm supposed to come pick up a computer?
GUTIERREZ: Julia Jiya (ph) will finally have a way to communicate with her husband William overseas.
You carry that.
GUTIERREZ: She's one of 700 military families to get a refurbished computer from Mike Levy.
LEVY: Just trying to give back. We've experienced some good fortune.
JIYA: And it's great that there's people out there in the civilian world that will help the military.
GUTIERREZ: Operation Homefront has help more than 4,000 military families in two years. A model other cities are following.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, San Diego.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Kobe Bryant heads back to Colorado, but not for the NBA playoffs. We'll fill you in on his case.
And can you believe this guy? Talk about getting whacked. Dr. Sanjay Gupta goes extreme in this weekend's "House CALL." You've got to stay with us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: All right. Well, in case you missed it, the Detroit Pistons powered past the New Jersey Nets, winning 95-80. The Pistons lead the best of seven series two games to none. Game 3, that's tomorrow night in New Jersey
CHOI: And good morning to the city of the big dig, Boston, that is. We'll have your complete weather forecast in less than two minutes. CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: In our legal briefs today, two stories dominating the headlines this week and likely next week as well. The first, the case against Kobe Bryant. He's expected to enter a formal plea next week. The other story out there is the Oregon attorney who was taken into custody this week in connection with the investigation of the Madrid train bombings.
Joining us now to get to the nitty-gritty in both cases our legal eagles. Former prosecutor Nelda Blair from Houston.
NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
ROBERTS: And civil rights attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Miami. Ladies, good morning. Great to have you with us, as always.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, PRESIDENT, ACLU-MIAMI: Good morning.
BLAIR: Thanks.
ROBERTS: OK. So let's start talking about Kobe Bryant and what's gone on this week. Then we'll get into what's coming for us in the beginning of next week.
Nelda, to you, a big thing that came out this week was the fact that the defense doesn't want the woman in this called the "victim" anymore. They want her to be called the "complaining witness." Why?
BLAIR: Because they are doing everything they can to focus on her and try her instead of trying Kobe Bryant. That's what the defense does. They are taking every piece of the prosecution's case, trying to pick it apart. and every time they get some kind of road down like that, some time down the road it helps them with their case. So if they can call this woman anything but a victim, then it helps Kobe Bryant. I'm sure that's what they want to do.
ROBERTS: Lida, do you agree?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not. No. Nelda, that's ridiculous. You know very well that a victim is only a victim when a person has been convicted. There has been no conviction in this case. Kobe Bryant is innocent until proven guilty. At most, this woman is an alleged victim, a complainant. Or you can call her by her name and treat them equally. He's Kobe Bryant. She's X. So there's no reason why it shouldn't be just as easy to give her a title that is respectful in the same way that you give him. You call him by his name. You call her by her name.
ROBERTS: Right. How did I know you ladies would disagree on that point?
BLAIR: Yes.
ROBERTS: What about the TV camera issue in the courtroom? Now a TV camera is going to be allowed into -- I guess they call it for expanded media coverage. It's not going to be more than one camera and also one still camera. How do you think that's going to change the way things play out with the -- especially the defense table and prosecution table, the lawyers?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, the camera is going to be in the back of the room. Or the cameras are going to be in the back of the room, and they're only going to capture the moment of the arraignment. So it's, you know, hey, it's no big deal. Small victory for the First Amendment. I'm not all that terribly excited. Cameras have literally been kept out of most of the proceedings in this case. Basically denying the public the right to know what's going on in a prosecution that's being brought in their name.
BLAIR: Oh, Lida! It denies the public the right to make this more of a circus. And that's all that's going to do. Cameras in the courtroom can only help to enhance the circus image. Because whether they are in the back or whether they are hidden behind a screen, the lawyers and the witnesses and everybody in that courtroom knows they are on camera. They are going to act different. They are human beings. I don't think it's a good idea.
ROBERTS: Nelda, you know some people probably think that Kobe Bryant has already formally enter his plea, because there's been so much coverage of this case, there's been so many hearings. But that hasn't happened yet. It's going to happen this week. Why the delay? Is it a strategic move?
BLAIR: Well, there's been so many pretrial hearings, so much going on so far in this case. And the judge, once they have -- once the judge sets the plea time -- yes, you are right, you haven't heard Kobe Bryant say not guilty yet. But once he actually formally makes that plea, then it sets into motion the speedy trial rule. and he has to be tried within six months. So they were trying to get a lot of things taken care of before then. A lot of these pretrial hearings and they've got a whole lot more coming this week. But once Kobe enters that plea, we're on our way.
ROBERTS: Want to shift gears and talk about this new case coming to us out of Oregon. A 37-year-old man that's been detained as a material witness in the Madrid train bombings. He's been detained because fingerprints were found on some type of evidence in Madrid.
Lida, what does it say to you he's being detained as a material witness?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this case is based on conjecture and suspicion; all fueled by leaks from unnamed government sources speak on conditions of anonymity. So we don't really know what this is all about. Now, the fact that he's being held as a material witness, now the material witness statute is used supposedly to hold people who have information and you want them to testify in front of the grand jury.
The government has been using it after September 11 to hold people who they don't have any good cases on, who they can't charge with crimes because they don't have any evidence. and this is what this is probably going to turn into, just another one of those cases where the government wanted to hold somebody but didn't really have any basis to do it on.
BLAIR: Oh, my...
ROBERTS: It has been coming to us they are allowed to hold them under the Patriot Act. And can hold them secretly; detain them for as long as they want.
Nelda, in you opinion, would it have been easier or better off for this guy to have just been arrested and charged with something?
BLAIR: Well, they may not have the evidence yet to charge him. But let me say this, there is more to this story than we know. This man's fingerprints were found on evidence that is connected to the Madrid bombings. That is huge. We are trying to prevent that type of thing from happening in the U.S. in the near future, and I say, if it takes holding somebody who is clearly connected, hold them.
ROBERTS: But Nelda, what his fingerprints? How is he already in an international database that they would have access to match up his fingerprints from Madrid to Oregon?
BLAIR: Well, he may not be in the database. He actually may have been because he was connected to one of the, as we call, the Portland Seven, the folks that pleaded guilty to conspiring to go to war against the U.S. with al Qaeda, he represented one of those in a custody battle. And so, they may have just been investigating anybody that was remotely connected. But it also maybe that he may has his fingerprints in from being an officer of the court in Oregon. Sometimes that's done in the states. It doesn't matter. What matter is that they match. Evidence found at the Madrid scene. And I think they need to hold the guy.
ROBERTS: And Lida, your opinion.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: But Nelda, you know very well that there is doubt as to whether or not they match. Spanish officials are saying that there wasn't a match. That they never found the match; that you know, even the FBI doesn't think there's a match. So what's going to come out in the next week is going to be probably that the FBI jumped the gun. You're already starting to see some of those signs of the oops, because now the FBI is saying, well, gee, we had to go run and arrest him because there were all these leaks about him being arrested.
BLAIR: No. No. No. ROBERTS: Ladies, we'll see what happens in the week to come. We'll be following...
BLAIR: My prediction is it will be a lot more.
ROBERTS: Well we'll see what happens in the week to come. Nelda Blair and Lida Rodriguez-Taseff. As always, ladies thanks so much.
BLAIR: Thank you.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.
CHOI: Well, take a look at this video. That is no strong man with the traveling circus. That is our Dr. Sanjay Gupta. There he is, he takes us to the limits of the body ahead on this weekend's "HOUSE CALL.
ROBERTS: Cinder block. Look at that.
CHOI: Ouch!
ROBERTS: A cinder block on his chest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHOI: And welcome back to CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
ROBERTS: Want to shift gears and talk about this morning's e- mail question. It's a math quiz from a professor at Georgia Tech University. All right, here it is. Say you are at a birthday with 22 of your friend. What are the odds one of them has your same birthday? Also, what are the odds that any two people in the room have the same birthday?
CHOI: Here's professor Mucha with a clue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER MUCHA, ASST. PROFESSOR, GEORGIA TECH. UNIV.: Here's your first clue. Assume the probabilities of different birthdays are independent. That is one friend's birthday is independent of another friend's birthday. So the odds that one of your guests -- a given guest has precisely the birthday you have is 1 in 365. Again, forgetting about leap days. So what are the probabilities that two of your guests, a given two guests, both have the same birthday that you have. If probabilities are independent, and you multiply the probabilities of independent events. The probability that both of these guests your birthday are 1 over 365 times 1 over 365 or a paltry small fraction of a percent. More clues later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Oh, I feel a little drowsy now.
CHOI: You know what Thomas? You might not even pay that close of attention because you think you'll get it on your own? Please. ROBERTS: All right. Here's one of our emails that came into us earlier. It says that 1/365 times, 1/365 times, that makes it one, blah, blah, blah, as you see on your screen, equals...
CHOI: Yes, blah, blah, blah, that's a real mathematical term.
ROBERTS: Yes, blah, blah, blah. Well, now you can tell how I did in math in school. Here, there's this one, right?
CHOI: All right. And here from Phil: the probability is half for both, strange, but true.
ROBERTS: Now, if you want to write into us and your blah, blah, blah, you can e-mail us your answers at wam@cnn.com. We're going to have another clue coming your way. That's in the next half hour right here. So keep it with us because coming up, we're also going to be talking with the professor. He's going to join us live for the answer.
Also took a poll of 23 people here in the newsroom to see if the equation works out. Our confidential envelope...
CHOI: Yes. I've got it right here.
ROBERTS: ... that gets opened in the 9:00 hour. Can't miss that.
CHOI: Yes. Got to wait for that.
ROBERTS: Uh-huh.
CHOI: All right. There is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, including opening that up.
At 8:30, a.m. Eastern Standard Time, Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores living beyond limits and just how much the human body can actually handle.
And at 9:00, we will tackle the issue of a free press in Iraq. Balancing the issues of truth, information and security.
And at 9:30 a.m., the legendary tenor Placido Domingo enters the "Novak Zone" to talk about what's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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