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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview with Attorneys Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, Nelda Blair
Aired May 15, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. From the CNN center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING for May 15. Great to have you with us. I'm Thomas Roberts.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. And good morning to you out there, thanks for being with us. I'm Sophia Choi.
Coming up this hour. Five U.S. soldiers are dead in just the past 24 hours in Iraq. We will bring you the latest.
And could this mother have done more to stop her 12-year-old son from hanging himself? We'll tell you what a judge had to say.
And will "Spiderman" defeat Achilles in the battle for the hottest summer movie? We'll take a look at what's out there.
But first, the headlines.
ROBERTS: And we start in Brazil, where crews are searching the Amazon jungle for possible survivors, after a plane crashed with 33 people aboard. The twin-engine turbo craft crashed yesterday near the Brazilian city of Manaus. Rescue crews have located the plane's wreckage, but there's no word yet on what they have caused that crash.
To the Middle East now, an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at the office of the Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza City. Officials say that Mohammed al Hindi was not harmed in the attacks. Meanwhile, Israeli troops hit several other buildings nearby. The officials say the structures were used to mount terrorist attacks.
And evangelist Billy Graham is in a North Carolina hospital, listed in stable condition, after a fall that he suffered at his home. A statement on his web site says the 85-year-old Graham was admitted to the hospital yesterday. Graham had been at home recovering from a partial hip replacement done earlier this year.
CHOI: And now to our top story this hour. The barbed criticisms of Iraqi prisoner abuses is leading to a razor sharp reversal on military policy in Iraq. After tales of abuse from behind these bars, the U.S. military is slamming the door on certain interrogation techniques used in Iraq; barring tactics like sleep deprivation and putting prisoners in stressful positions.
For more now, we go to Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon.
Good morning, Kathleen. KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Well, as you pointed out, basically the commander in Iraq, the top military commander, has put forces there on notice that the rules of the interrogation game have clearly changed. General Ricardo Sanchez had just completed a weeklong review of the accepted interrogation techniques, and then made this announcement. Saying again, hooding, sleep deprivation, keeping prisoners in stressful positions for extended periods of time, all of that is now barred.
Now, these had been allowed previously. Though, the Pentagon says no one had given permission for them to be used, but they had been allowed with advance approval of the commanding general. Now, it's important to point out those very tactics had already been halted at the beginning of this month, when a new commander took over at Abu Ghraib prison. But of course, these new rules now apply throughout the country of Iraq.
The Pentagon had believed the rules it had in place, interrogation rules, were in keeping with the Geneva Conventions. However, critics pointed out that the convention strictly prohibited, and I'm quoting now, "physical or moral coercion against prisoners. In particular, to obtain information from them or from third parties." The practices that we're told by Pentagon officials that will now be acceptable will be, isolating prisoners, putting them in solitary confinement or putting them in a segregated unit with a smaller number of prisoners.
Civilian contractors, who often do conduct and will still conduct in the future interrogations in Iraq, they must follow these very procedures. However, it's unclear whether or not they will apply equally to CIA operatives, who also often participate in the interrogations in Iraq.
Now, of course, all of this stemming from the alleged abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison. Some seven soldiers are facing military charges. The very first court martial begins next week on Wednesday.
Back to you.
CHOI: Kathleen Koch, thanks so much for breaking it all down for us this morning.
ROBERTS: It's been a tough week for the White House with polls showing some erosion in public support for the president.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has more joining us now from Washington. Suzanne, these are some of the toughest numbers the Bush administration has seen.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Thomas. And really, the question is the long-term impact of last week's events. That is unclear. What has become clear however, is the short-term impact that is, that President Bush is losing support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): At a commencement speech, the president again expressed his disgust at the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal and his support for the troops.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The cruelty of a few has brought discredit to their uniform, and embarrassment to our country.
MALVEAUX: The White House may have weathered this week's storm. Just one week ago, this dire warning from Secretary Rumsfeld.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are other photos, many other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners.
MALVEAUX: The week began with at least four Democratic senators calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, and President Bush at the Pentagon in a show of unflinching support for his embattled secretary.
BUSH: You are doing a superb job.
MALVEAUX: The next day, more testimony of prisoner abuse, while damaging, suggested the scandal didn't go far up the chain of command.
MAJ. GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: Sir, we did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did.
MALVEAUX: On Wednesday, as members of Congress privately examined new photos of American soldiers abusing prisoners, a terrorist web site broadcast American civilian Nicholas Berg being beheaded. The execution, an alleged act of revenge, quieted calls for the release of additional abuse photos. And Thursday, Rumsfeld made a surprise visit to Baghdad to rally U.S. troops and show critics he's here to stay.
(APPLAUSE)
RUMSFELD: It's a fact. I'm a survivor.
MALVEAUX: A new CNN/"Time" poll bears that out, with 57 percent of Americans thinking Rumsfeld should not resign. But those same polls showing recent events taking a toll on Mr. Bush's standing; 49 percent disapprove of how he's handling his job, 46 percent approve. And 51 percent say they'll now likely vote for Kerry, 46 percent say for Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: But political strategists say the more important poll numbers are those from swing states in determining who will win this election. But White House aides acknowledge they can't afford to have another week like this one -- Thomas. ROBERTS: Suzanne Malveaux, live for us in Washington. Suzanne, thanks very much.
CHOI: We'd like to know your thoughts on what's driving up the price of gas and oil. E-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We'll share your thoughts in just a bit.
And there's nothing to fear but -- well, actually, there's a lot we seem to be afraid of. "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta will delve into many of the most interesting phobias still ahead.
ROBERTS: Itchy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, two good friends are looking for one big brass ring. Mark O'Meara and Tiger Woods lead the pack at one under par at the Byron Nelson Classic that's taking place in Irvin, Texas. They face off for the $5.8 million prize purse later this afternoon. Woods, the No. 1 ranked player in the world, has not won a major this year. O'Meara has not won on the PGA Tour since the British Open in 1998.
CHOI: And good morning to those of you waking up in the nation's capital, Washington. We'll have your complete weather forecast in under two minutes. So stay with us here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHOI: We've got a few interesting legal stories to talk about this morning. While we oftentimes overuse the word "tragic," this story is nothing short of it. Twelve-year-old Victor Daniel Scruggs, a victim of bullying at school, eventually hanged himself in his closet. Now prosecutors in Connecticut believe his mother could have done more to help him.
Joining us now to talk about that and some other legal news are civil rights attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Miami, and former prosecutor Nelda Blair in Houston.
Thank so much for joining us, ladies.
NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, PRESIDENT, ACLU-MIAMI: Good morning.
CHOI: So Lida let me start with you. Is the school responsible in any way for this young boy's death?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely they are responsible. And you know the tragedy here is that we have obscured the responsibility of the school that knew about the bullying, ended up blaming the victim. Said, well, the reason you are being bullied is because you smell bad, you don't take baths and you wear ugly clothes; and never bothered to address the real problems with the bullying that caused this boy to be so desperate that he hanged himself.
CHOI: Nelda is the school at risk of being sued then?
BLAIR: Actually, the school has been sued by the mother in a civil suit and the school may be at some risk under other laws as well. But we've got to remember this. There is no question that just about every one in this child's life failed him and it is a horrible situation. But the buck stops with the parent. And there is absolutely no reason that this woman should not have been convicted of not helping her child. We require parents to care for and to protect their children in the United States. She did not do that. And no matter who else is to blame, the parent is the final person that is responsible for that child, legally.
CHOI: Lida, she got five years of probation and community service for her role in all of this. You agree with that sentence? Was it fair?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not. She should never have been convicted. Let's face it, Nelda, you know she was convicted of this made-up charge of creating an environment that contributed to her son's death. There is nothing more amorphous and novel than that. In fact, we have never seen such a conviction in the entire country on a charge like this. So absolutely, she should not have been convicted. She -- they demonstrated no criminal intent. And how could you possibly punish this mother when the real culprits were the bullies?
BLAIR: Intent is not part of it, Lida. In this situation, what she did was absolutely criminal against that boy. She did not take steps to get him help until the day he died. He had been having trouble in that school for two years. She worked at the school. She's a teacher's aide. How would you like her caring for your children? I don't think any of us would like that. The responsibility lied with her and it's about time that we take -- make parents take responsibility in this country.
CHOI: All right. Let's move on to the case of the Guardsman. Northern Illinois, a police officer is fired after he was called up for active duty. But his bosses say he was actually fired for being late and missing work, despite being on probation for those very reason.
Lida, what legal recourse does he have?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, you know, the law provides that when somebody is wrongfully terminated for a reason that it is illegal or unconstitutional, such as being terminated because he was called up to active duty; and mind you he was terminated just a few days after he was called up, then you have legal recourse.
And the employer in this case, the county can't use the excuse, the pretext that well, you were arriving late. That's not why they fired him and they know that's not why they fired him. This is an afterward, made up excuse in order to cover their tracks and justify what they did, which was absolutely illegal. BLAIR: Lida, you have your facts wrong on this one. It was not a made-up excuse afterward. This man was a police officer. He was coming in late. He was missing work. What if it were your emergency that he was late for? It is unacceptable in the police officer situation. Absolutely unacceptable for this employer to have to keep him. He was already on probation for that when he was called up to active duty. All they did was follow through with firing him, because of insubordination that he had performed long before he went on active duty.
Unfortunately, now this employer's hands are tied because he's going into military action, as a National Guardsman and there are laws that protect our fighting men and absolutely they should. But in this case, we should not tie this employer's hands and make them keep a bad police officer.
CHOI: So Lida, do you think that the village has any standing in this at all then?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, they absolutely can fire people that are not doing their job. But they can't fire them for reasons that are illegal, such as that they were going to active duty and that they didn't want to have to keep him on the payroll. And you know, this happens often...
CHOI: But they're not saying that. They're saying they fired him for another reason, because he was constantly late and missing work.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. But that's what they are saying, but that's not what they actually did. That's their excuse now, Nelda. And you know it. And this happens often with small police departments, because they are afraid that if they keep people on the payroll, that it is going to create a burden and they need somebody else new. Well, that may be, but that's just not fair to this officer.
CHOI: Well, we shall see how the courts decide.
Lida Rodriguez-Taseff and Nelda Blair, thanks so much for your insights into all of these cases.
BLAIR: Thank you.
CHOI: Take care.
ROBERTS: Monday marks the 50 anniversary of the historic Brown versus The Board Of Education ruling that made it illegal to segregate schools. And now five decades later, many African-Americans are choosing to live in separate neighborhoods, sending their children to separate schools with sometimes fewer resources. Tomorrow on "CNN SUNDAY MORNING," we're going to talk to people who made that very decision and ask them if they'd do it again. A thought-provoking discussion tomorrow "CNN SUNDAY MORNING."
Stay with us everybody because we're going to be reading your e- mails in less than five minutes. And you still have time to get us your thought on the price of gas and oil. Again wam@cnn.com is our address.
And summer movies are starting to hit the screens. Critics say some are good and some are -- well, you'll just have to wait and see. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Want to update the headlines for you now. At least four Iraqi civilians were killed in Mosul today, while lined up outside an army recruitment center. Iraqi police say the mortar attack also wounded more than a dozen others.
Just a quick programming note here. Coming up at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time, we're going to take you to Iraq for the weekly briefing. General Mark Kimmitt will be talking about the activities taking place there this week in Iraq. Again, that at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
Well, South Africa is going to host the 2010 World Cup beating out Morocco and Egypt. That announcement came a couple of hours ago from the International Football Federation in Zurich. The championship is held every four years. This is going to be the first time it's going to be played on the African continent.
CHOI: But in 2006, it first goes to Germany.
So how high can it go? That's what we've been asking you all morning about the price of gas. The government says pain at the pump will only get worse with prices expected to hit $2.03 in June. So this morning we're going to bring you reaction from drivers. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think with the current administration right now, I'm thinking and all the things that are going on in Iraq, I think that it's causing the gas prices to be way higher than normal, and it's just ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of stuff is going down in the Middle East, and a lot of spiritual warfare is going on. And things are just happening in the invisible realm and this is evidence of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHOI: Next hour, we will examine the role the war on terror plays in the cost of oil.
But first, here's what you had to say on this topic. Our morning e-mail question, what do you think is driving the high cost of oil?
ROBERTS: Yes, we opened it up to you this morning. And this first e-mail coming in to us from Dana in Pennsylvania saying, "I believe that oil prices are being driven high by an agreement of the Bush administration with the House of Saud. George W. will announce a deal with the Saudi oil sheikhs in September with prices hitting a yearly low on Friday November 5, 2004."
CHOI: And from Greg in Bloomington, Indiana we have this. "Oil is a depleting asset. Worldwide demand has outstripped supply. Price will be the balancing factor. Get used to the higher prices. Whining, political statements will not produce more oil."
ROBERTS: Well, let's get that e-mail address back up there. And ask you are question today. What is driving the high price of oil and gas? We know you are feeling the pinch. But e-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We're going to be reading more of your responses later on throughout the morning right here on CNN.
OK. So stop me if you've heard this one before. There's a new "Harry Potter" movie on the way. And Harry is just one of the number of appearances on the big screen this summer.
CNN's entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas has a preview for us from Hollywood.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, fasten your seat belts.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The wet one is back. Toby McGuire is out to save the world in "Spiderman 2," just one of the films swinging it's on to the big screen this summer.
CINDY GRISOLA, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": If you added up the comedies, the dramas, the action/adventures, there's a lot of big stuff to look forward to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to miss the good old days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What good old days?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people were killed by other people.
VARGAS: Once again, they've enlisted the help of big Willy Styling. Only this time he's battling robots in the futuristic "I Robot."
(on camera): I know you're a big guy and everything, but you know, I mean...
WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Yes! You know. You know. You know, I think it's the blend: action hero, physicality with the charm.
VARGAS: It's working. It's working.
SMITH: It's working. And...
VARGAS: It is working.
(voice-over): And what would this summer be without a big-budget epic? Brad Pitt takes center stage in "Troy." Earth takes an ecological beating in Rolling Emmerish's thriller, "The Day After Tomorrow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a twister in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just massive...
VARGAS: Looking for a little lighter fare? That loveable ogre and his gray little friend are at it again. And this time they've got new pals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pray for mercy from Puss in boots.
VARGAS: "Harry Potter" is back. Only this time a little older and wiser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope he finds me, because when he does, I'm going to be ready.
VARGAS: Tom Hanks seems to be waiting forever at an airport in Steven Spielberg's "The Terminal."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do I buy the Nike shoes?
VARGAS: Don't expect Ben Stiller to hold back. He's hoping to beat out the competition with his comedy "Dodge Ball."
BEN STILLER, ACTOR: It's a sport of violence, exclusion and degradation.
VARGAS: And watch out, Wolf Blitzer, there's a new anchorman in town and his name is Ferrell, Will Ferrell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cannonball!
VARGAS: Feeling nostalgic? The Hollywood remake is back. Nicole Kidman is this millennium's "Step ford Wife."
And Denzel Washington is in a whole heap of trouble in remake of the John Frankenheimer classic "The Manchurian Candidate."
(on camera): With more than 130 movies opening this season, the studios have certainly got you covered. So break out the popcorn. It's going to be an entertaining summer.
Sibila Vargas, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHOI: A hundred and thirty movies? That is amazing.
ROBERTS: It's time -- you know, the other night, I think it was Wednesday night before "American Idol," they had a 10-minute preview of "The Day After Tomorrow." Pretty scary. I mean the weather situation; it's all about global warming, but pretty wild.
CHOI: Oh really? But you don't buy it that reporters could be out there like...
ROBERTS: I don't buy it that reporters could be out there covering it.
CHOI: ... in the wind covering it?
ROBERTS: No, it doesn't happen like that.
CHOI: I don't think so either.
ROBERTS: It's the movies.
CHOI: Right. That's why all it's make believe.
ROBERTS: Mm-hmm.
CHOI: All right. We've got lots more ahead here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. And we've got the real stuff. At 8:30 Eastern, "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores things you think are going bump in the night. What scares us and why?
Then at 9:15, the link between terrorism and the price of oil.
Then at 9:30, a profile of the Golden Knights, the Army's elite parachute team. And you get to see a beloved CNN anchor shoved right out of a plane. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: "HOUSE CALL" is next for you. But first, these headlines.
Iraqis who were lined up outside an army recruitment center in Mosul were hit by a mortar round. According to Iraqi police at least four were killed, 15 others were wounded.
Baghdad's Green Zone also came under attack today. The Green Zone is the high-security area where the coalition authority is based. No casualties were reported, but a rocket or mortar damaged some vehicles. A news conference is expected at the top of the hour from Baghdad. We're going to bring that to you, of course, live.
And Zimbabwe's long-time President Robert Mugabe says he's had enough of politics and wants to retire when his term ends in 2008. The 80-year-old president made those remarks to a Kenyan newspaper, and they echo comments he made in February that re-election probably was not in the cards.
Stay with us everybody. More news coming your way in 30 minutes. Now "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
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Aired May 15, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. From the CNN center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING for May 15. Great to have you with us. I'm Thomas Roberts.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. And good morning to you out there, thanks for being with us. I'm Sophia Choi.
Coming up this hour. Five U.S. soldiers are dead in just the past 24 hours in Iraq. We will bring you the latest.
And could this mother have done more to stop her 12-year-old son from hanging himself? We'll tell you what a judge had to say.
And will "Spiderman" defeat Achilles in the battle for the hottest summer movie? We'll take a look at what's out there.
But first, the headlines.
ROBERTS: And we start in Brazil, where crews are searching the Amazon jungle for possible survivors, after a plane crashed with 33 people aboard. The twin-engine turbo craft crashed yesterday near the Brazilian city of Manaus. Rescue crews have located the plane's wreckage, but there's no word yet on what they have caused that crash.
To the Middle East now, an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at the office of the Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza City. Officials say that Mohammed al Hindi was not harmed in the attacks. Meanwhile, Israeli troops hit several other buildings nearby. The officials say the structures were used to mount terrorist attacks.
And evangelist Billy Graham is in a North Carolina hospital, listed in stable condition, after a fall that he suffered at his home. A statement on his web site says the 85-year-old Graham was admitted to the hospital yesterday. Graham had been at home recovering from a partial hip replacement done earlier this year.
CHOI: And now to our top story this hour. The barbed criticisms of Iraqi prisoner abuses is leading to a razor sharp reversal on military policy in Iraq. After tales of abuse from behind these bars, the U.S. military is slamming the door on certain interrogation techniques used in Iraq; barring tactics like sleep deprivation and putting prisoners in stressful positions.
For more now, we go to Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon.
Good morning, Kathleen. KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Well, as you pointed out, basically the commander in Iraq, the top military commander, has put forces there on notice that the rules of the interrogation game have clearly changed. General Ricardo Sanchez had just completed a weeklong review of the accepted interrogation techniques, and then made this announcement. Saying again, hooding, sleep deprivation, keeping prisoners in stressful positions for extended periods of time, all of that is now barred.
Now, these had been allowed previously. Though, the Pentagon says no one had given permission for them to be used, but they had been allowed with advance approval of the commanding general. Now, it's important to point out those very tactics had already been halted at the beginning of this month, when a new commander took over at Abu Ghraib prison. But of course, these new rules now apply throughout the country of Iraq.
The Pentagon had believed the rules it had in place, interrogation rules, were in keeping with the Geneva Conventions. However, critics pointed out that the convention strictly prohibited, and I'm quoting now, "physical or moral coercion against prisoners. In particular, to obtain information from them or from third parties." The practices that we're told by Pentagon officials that will now be acceptable will be, isolating prisoners, putting them in solitary confinement or putting them in a segregated unit with a smaller number of prisoners.
Civilian contractors, who often do conduct and will still conduct in the future interrogations in Iraq, they must follow these very procedures. However, it's unclear whether or not they will apply equally to CIA operatives, who also often participate in the interrogations in Iraq.
Now, of course, all of this stemming from the alleged abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison. Some seven soldiers are facing military charges. The very first court martial begins next week on Wednesday.
Back to you.
CHOI: Kathleen Koch, thanks so much for breaking it all down for us this morning.
ROBERTS: It's been a tough week for the White House with polls showing some erosion in public support for the president.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has more joining us now from Washington. Suzanne, these are some of the toughest numbers the Bush administration has seen.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Thomas. And really, the question is the long-term impact of last week's events. That is unclear. What has become clear however, is the short-term impact that is, that President Bush is losing support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): At a commencement speech, the president again expressed his disgust at the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal and his support for the troops.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The cruelty of a few has brought discredit to their uniform, and embarrassment to our country.
MALVEAUX: The White House may have weathered this week's storm. Just one week ago, this dire warning from Secretary Rumsfeld.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are other photos, many other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners.
MALVEAUX: The week began with at least four Democratic senators calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, and President Bush at the Pentagon in a show of unflinching support for his embattled secretary.
BUSH: You are doing a superb job.
MALVEAUX: The next day, more testimony of prisoner abuse, while damaging, suggested the scandal didn't go far up the chain of command.
MAJ. GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: Sir, we did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did.
MALVEAUX: On Wednesday, as members of Congress privately examined new photos of American soldiers abusing prisoners, a terrorist web site broadcast American civilian Nicholas Berg being beheaded. The execution, an alleged act of revenge, quieted calls for the release of additional abuse photos. And Thursday, Rumsfeld made a surprise visit to Baghdad to rally U.S. troops and show critics he's here to stay.
(APPLAUSE)
RUMSFELD: It's a fact. I'm a survivor.
MALVEAUX: A new CNN/"Time" poll bears that out, with 57 percent of Americans thinking Rumsfeld should not resign. But those same polls showing recent events taking a toll on Mr. Bush's standing; 49 percent disapprove of how he's handling his job, 46 percent approve. And 51 percent say they'll now likely vote for Kerry, 46 percent say for Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: But political strategists say the more important poll numbers are those from swing states in determining who will win this election. But White House aides acknowledge they can't afford to have another week like this one -- Thomas. ROBERTS: Suzanne Malveaux, live for us in Washington. Suzanne, thanks very much.
CHOI: We'd like to know your thoughts on what's driving up the price of gas and oil. E-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We'll share your thoughts in just a bit.
And there's nothing to fear but -- well, actually, there's a lot we seem to be afraid of. "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta will delve into many of the most interesting phobias still ahead.
ROBERTS: Itchy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, two good friends are looking for one big brass ring. Mark O'Meara and Tiger Woods lead the pack at one under par at the Byron Nelson Classic that's taking place in Irvin, Texas. They face off for the $5.8 million prize purse later this afternoon. Woods, the No. 1 ranked player in the world, has not won a major this year. O'Meara has not won on the PGA Tour since the British Open in 1998.
CHOI: And good morning to those of you waking up in the nation's capital, Washington. We'll have your complete weather forecast in under two minutes. So stay with us here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHOI: We've got a few interesting legal stories to talk about this morning. While we oftentimes overuse the word "tragic," this story is nothing short of it. Twelve-year-old Victor Daniel Scruggs, a victim of bullying at school, eventually hanged himself in his closet. Now prosecutors in Connecticut believe his mother could have done more to help him.
Joining us now to talk about that and some other legal news are civil rights attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff in Miami, and former prosecutor Nelda Blair in Houston.
Thank so much for joining us, ladies.
NELDA BLAIR, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, PRESIDENT, ACLU-MIAMI: Good morning.
CHOI: So Lida let me start with you. Is the school responsible in any way for this young boy's death?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely they are responsible. And you know the tragedy here is that we have obscured the responsibility of the school that knew about the bullying, ended up blaming the victim. Said, well, the reason you are being bullied is because you smell bad, you don't take baths and you wear ugly clothes; and never bothered to address the real problems with the bullying that caused this boy to be so desperate that he hanged himself.
CHOI: Nelda is the school at risk of being sued then?
BLAIR: Actually, the school has been sued by the mother in a civil suit and the school may be at some risk under other laws as well. But we've got to remember this. There is no question that just about every one in this child's life failed him and it is a horrible situation. But the buck stops with the parent. And there is absolutely no reason that this woman should not have been convicted of not helping her child. We require parents to care for and to protect their children in the United States. She did not do that. And no matter who else is to blame, the parent is the final person that is responsible for that child, legally.
CHOI: Lida, she got five years of probation and community service for her role in all of this. You agree with that sentence? Was it fair?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely not. She should never have been convicted. Let's face it, Nelda, you know she was convicted of this made-up charge of creating an environment that contributed to her son's death. There is nothing more amorphous and novel than that. In fact, we have never seen such a conviction in the entire country on a charge like this. So absolutely, she should not have been convicted. She -- they demonstrated no criminal intent. And how could you possibly punish this mother when the real culprits were the bullies?
BLAIR: Intent is not part of it, Lida. In this situation, what she did was absolutely criminal against that boy. She did not take steps to get him help until the day he died. He had been having trouble in that school for two years. She worked at the school. She's a teacher's aide. How would you like her caring for your children? I don't think any of us would like that. The responsibility lied with her and it's about time that we take -- make parents take responsibility in this country.
CHOI: All right. Let's move on to the case of the Guardsman. Northern Illinois, a police officer is fired after he was called up for active duty. But his bosses say he was actually fired for being late and missing work, despite being on probation for those very reason.
Lida, what legal recourse does he have?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, you know, the law provides that when somebody is wrongfully terminated for a reason that it is illegal or unconstitutional, such as being terminated because he was called up to active duty; and mind you he was terminated just a few days after he was called up, then you have legal recourse.
And the employer in this case, the county can't use the excuse, the pretext that well, you were arriving late. That's not why they fired him and they know that's not why they fired him. This is an afterward, made up excuse in order to cover their tracks and justify what they did, which was absolutely illegal. BLAIR: Lida, you have your facts wrong on this one. It was not a made-up excuse afterward. This man was a police officer. He was coming in late. He was missing work. What if it were your emergency that he was late for? It is unacceptable in the police officer situation. Absolutely unacceptable for this employer to have to keep him. He was already on probation for that when he was called up to active duty. All they did was follow through with firing him, because of insubordination that he had performed long before he went on active duty.
Unfortunately, now this employer's hands are tied because he's going into military action, as a National Guardsman and there are laws that protect our fighting men and absolutely they should. But in this case, we should not tie this employer's hands and make them keep a bad police officer.
CHOI: So Lida, do you think that the village has any standing in this at all then?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, they absolutely can fire people that are not doing their job. But they can't fire them for reasons that are illegal, such as that they were going to active duty and that they didn't want to have to keep him on the payroll. And you know, this happens often...
CHOI: But they're not saying that. They're saying they fired him for another reason, because he was constantly late and missing work.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely. But that's what they are saying, but that's not what they actually did. That's their excuse now, Nelda. And you know it. And this happens often with small police departments, because they are afraid that if they keep people on the payroll, that it is going to create a burden and they need somebody else new. Well, that may be, but that's just not fair to this officer.
CHOI: Well, we shall see how the courts decide.
Lida Rodriguez-Taseff and Nelda Blair, thanks so much for your insights into all of these cases.
BLAIR: Thank you.
CHOI: Take care.
ROBERTS: Monday marks the 50 anniversary of the historic Brown versus The Board Of Education ruling that made it illegal to segregate schools. And now five decades later, many African-Americans are choosing to live in separate neighborhoods, sending their children to separate schools with sometimes fewer resources. Tomorrow on "CNN SUNDAY MORNING," we're going to talk to people who made that very decision and ask them if they'd do it again. A thought-provoking discussion tomorrow "CNN SUNDAY MORNING."
Stay with us everybody because we're going to be reading your e- mails in less than five minutes. And you still have time to get us your thought on the price of gas and oil. Again wam@cnn.com is our address.
And summer movies are starting to hit the screens. Critics say some are good and some are -- well, you'll just have to wait and see. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Want to update the headlines for you now. At least four Iraqi civilians were killed in Mosul today, while lined up outside an army recruitment center. Iraqi police say the mortar attack also wounded more than a dozen others.
Just a quick programming note here. Coming up at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time, we're going to take you to Iraq for the weekly briefing. General Mark Kimmitt will be talking about the activities taking place there this week in Iraq. Again, that at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
Well, South Africa is going to host the 2010 World Cup beating out Morocco and Egypt. That announcement came a couple of hours ago from the International Football Federation in Zurich. The championship is held every four years. This is going to be the first time it's going to be played on the African continent.
CHOI: But in 2006, it first goes to Germany.
So how high can it go? That's what we've been asking you all morning about the price of gas. The government says pain at the pump will only get worse with prices expected to hit $2.03 in June. So this morning we're going to bring you reaction from drivers. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think with the current administration right now, I'm thinking and all the things that are going on in Iraq, I think that it's causing the gas prices to be way higher than normal, and it's just ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of stuff is going down in the Middle East, and a lot of spiritual warfare is going on. And things are just happening in the invisible realm and this is evidence of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHOI: Next hour, we will examine the role the war on terror plays in the cost of oil.
But first, here's what you had to say on this topic. Our morning e-mail question, what do you think is driving the high cost of oil?
ROBERTS: Yes, we opened it up to you this morning. And this first e-mail coming in to us from Dana in Pennsylvania saying, "I believe that oil prices are being driven high by an agreement of the Bush administration with the House of Saud. George W. will announce a deal with the Saudi oil sheikhs in September with prices hitting a yearly low on Friday November 5, 2004."
CHOI: And from Greg in Bloomington, Indiana we have this. "Oil is a depleting asset. Worldwide demand has outstripped supply. Price will be the balancing factor. Get used to the higher prices. Whining, political statements will not produce more oil."
ROBERTS: Well, let's get that e-mail address back up there. And ask you are question today. What is driving the high price of oil and gas? We know you are feeling the pinch. But e-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We're going to be reading more of your responses later on throughout the morning right here on CNN.
OK. So stop me if you've heard this one before. There's a new "Harry Potter" movie on the way. And Harry is just one of the number of appearances on the big screen this summer.
CNN's entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas has a preview for us from Hollywood.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, fasten your seat belts.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The wet one is back. Toby McGuire is out to save the world in "Spiderman 2," just one of the films swinging it's on to the big screen this summer.
CINDY GRISOLA, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": If you added up the comedies, the dramas, the action/adventures, there's a lot of big stuff to look forward to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to miss the good old days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What good old days?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people were killed by other people.
VARGAS: Once again, they've enlisted the help of big Willy Styling. Only this time he's battling robots in the futuristic "I Robot."
(on camera): I know you're a big guy and everything, but you know, I mean...
WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Yes! You know. You know. You know, I think it's the blend: action hero, physicality with the charm.
VARGAS: It's working. It's working.
SMITH: It's working. And...
VARGAS: It is working.
(voice-over): And what would this summer be without a big-budget epic? Brad Pitt takes center stage in "Troy." Earth takes an ecological beating in Rolling Emmerish's thriller, "The Day After Tomorrow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a twister in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just massive...
VARGAS: Looking for a little lighter fare? That loveable ogre and his gray little friend are at it again. And this time they've got new pals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pray for mercy from Puss in boots.
VARGAS: "Harry Potter" is back. Only this time a little older and wiser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope he finds me, because when he does, I'm going to be ready.
VARGAS: Tom Hanks seems to be waiting forever at an airport in Steven Spielberg's "The Terminal."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do I buy the Nike shoes?
VARGAS: Don't expect Ben Stiller to hold back. He's hoping to beat out the competition with his comedy "Dodge Ball."
BEN STILLER, ACTOR: It's a sport of violence, exclusion and degradation.
VARGAS: And watch out, Wolf Blitzer, there's a new anchorman in town and his name is Ferrell, Will Ferrell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cannonball!
VARGAS: Feeling nostalgic? The Hollywood remake is back. Nicole Kidman is this millennium's "Step ford Wife."
And Denzel Washington is in a whole heap of trouble in remake of the John Frankenheimer classic "The Manchurian Candidate."
(on camera): With more than 130 movies opening this season, the studios have certainly got you covered. So break out the popcorn. It's going to be an entertaining summer.
Sibila Vargas, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHOI: A hundred and thirty movies? That is amazing.
ROBERTS: It's time -- you know, the other night, I think it was Wednesday night before "American Idol," they had a 10-minute preview of "The Day After Tomorrow." Pretty scary. I mean the weather situation; it's all about global warming, but pretty wild.
CHOI: Oh really? But you don't buy it that reporters could be out there like...
ROBERTS: I don't buy it that reporters could be out there covering it.
CHOI: ... in the wind covering it?
ROBERTS: No, it doesn't happen like that.
CHOI: I don't think so either.
ROBERTS: It's the movies.
CHOI: Right. That's why all it's make believe.
ROBERTS: Mm-hmm.
CHOI: All right. We've got lots more ahead here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. And we've got the real stuff. At 8:30 Eastern, "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores things you think are going bump in the night. What scares us and why?
Then at 9:15, the link between terrorism and the price of oil.
Then at 9:30, a profile of the Golden Knights, the Army's elite parachute team. And you get to see a beloved CNN anchor shoved right out of a plane. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: "HOUSE CALL" is next for you. But first, these headlines.
Iraqis who were lined up outside an army recruitment center in Mosul were hit by a mortar round. According to Iraqi police at least four were killed, 15 others were wounded.
Baghdad's Green Zone also came under attack today. The Green Zone is the high-security area where the coalition authority is based. No casualties were reported, but a rocket or mortar damaged some vehicles. A news conference is expected at the top of the hour from Baghdad. We're going to bring that to you, of course, live.
And Zimbabwe's long-time President Robert Mugabe says he's had enough of politics and wants to retire when his term ends in 2008. The 80-year-old president made those remarks to a Kenyan newspaper, and they echo comments he made in February that re-election probably was not in the cards.
Stay with us everybody. More news coming your way in 30 minutes. Now "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
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