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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview with Pam Bethel, Josh Briskin

Aired May 22, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING. Good morning. I'm Sophia Choi.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: Hi, everybody. Great to have you with us today. I'm Thomas Roberts.

Among the stories coming up this hour on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, righting wrongs. We'll have the remarkable story of medieval punishments corrected with modern technology. Also, as we were just talking about, Martha Stewart ink, and we don't me incorporated. Our legal experts will discuss whether perjury charges against a key witness will write a new chapter for Stewart.

Then later on "House Call," members of the CNN medical unit enter attend the American Cancer Society's annual Relay for Life in suburban Atlanta, one of the biggest events of its kind in the country.

CHOI: But first the headlines at this hour. A suicide car bomb kills seven Iraqis this morning, including the bomber. The bomb exploded outside the Baghdad home of a Abdul Jabbar Yousif, a deputy interior minister. And 10 Iraqis were wounded, Yousif and his wife, among them. Their injuries, though, are not life threatening.

And another car bomb, this one in a town south of Baghdad killed one American soldier and wounded three others. Few details are available on that bombing, but the U.S. military says two of the wounded soldiers were evacuated for medical treatment and the third returned to duty.

The Israeli military says a suicide bomber blew himself at a West Bank checkpoint near the Jewish settlement Bekaot A paramedic at the scene says four Palestinians and an Israeli soldier was injured. One of in the Palestinians is said to be seriously wounded.

ROBERTS: The prison abuse scandal seems to get worse with each passing day. U.S. military officials now say that criminal investigations are underway in the deaths of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Washington with the latest details on this.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Thomas. Well, two weeks ago the Pentagon announced that 25 investigations had been launched. Now Pentagon officials say the U.S. military has added eight more. That means a total of 33 criminal investigations are underway into the deaths of 37 detainees who were in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to Pentagon officials, of those 37 people who died, 32 of the deaths occurred in Iraq and five of the deaths occurred in Afghanistan. Now officials also say that 30 of the cases happened inside U.S. detention facilities and three cases were not in prisons.

Interrogation procedures continue to be the focus of an investigation as well. One that CNN has learned has led to a civilian contractor being referred to the Justice Department for possible criminal prosecution.

As for the probes into the deaths, four cases that took place inside detention facilities are listed as justified homicides that happened as prisoners were trying to escape. Now eight people were killed in those four cases. One at Camp Buka in southern Iraq and seven others at Abu Ghraib.

Now, two cases were listed as homicides and the Pentagon says that nine other investigations are still pending. Of those nine, all but three were cases in Iraq. Now, 15 other cases were declared to be death by natural or undetermined causes, say officials.

The Pentagon, meantime, also has released the death certificates that are part of the investigation. Now this is all taking place amidst new pictures of prisoner abuse and video that surfaced in media reports yesterday, something that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has warned might happen in the days and weeks ahead.

Thomas?

ROBERTS: More to come on this. Elaine Quijano live for us in Washington.

Elaine, thank you.

CHOI: "The Washington Post" says it has previously secret documents on the prison abuse scandal in Iraq. The documents include statements from four of the seven MPs charged with abusing detainees at Abu Ghraib near Baghdad. One MP, Sergeant Javal Davis said the prison got special visitors at nighttime, visitors from the FBI, military intelligence, and the military's criminal investigation division and other government agencies.

Davis said, quote, "They would be in and out of the wing interrogating prisoners, bringing them in or taking them away to the wood hut behind the hard site or away, period. Someone was always there from the other agencies or military personnel it seemed."

Outrage this morning at the raid, by Iraq police and U.S. troops, on the home of Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi politician. Chalabi is a member of the Iraq Governing Council appointed by the U.S. The council issued a statement, saying, it condemns and denounces the raid and calls for a respect for the law. And announces full solidarity with Dr. Ahmed Chalabi.

The council said, quote, "There is no justification for the storming of Chalabi's home."

ROBERTS: The brutality and repression of the Saddam Hussein regime are a thing of the past, but some wounds still remain and have lingering effects. For seven Iraqi men who were subjected Saddam's tyranny, a chance to become whole again is offering a new start. CNN's Ed Lavendera has their story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When seven Iraqi men first landed in Houston it was hard to tell they were hiding scars left by Saddam Hussein.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you first meet them, all their right hands are in their pockets, because that's the way they walked around for nine years, with the end of their limb stuffed in their pockets.

LAVANDERA: It was a subtle yet poignant behavior that prosthetic specialist David Beatty noticed. Muslim traditions view the left hand as dirty and disrespectful. The right hand is virtuous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The social stigma that was associated with not having a right hand affected not only these guys, but their family, their children.

LAVANDERA: Nine years ago these men were accused of illegally using U.S. dollars in Iraq. Saddam Hussein ordered their hand be cut off and that the men be sent back to their neighborhoods as an example of what would happen if you defied the regime.

(on camera): What these men have been through has been a well documented saga. Saddam Hussein men videotaped their hands being cut off and now a filmmaker is turning their story of loss and redemption into a documentary.

(voice over): The filmmaker found the men in Baghdad and started enlisting the help of reporters, doctors and prosthetic specialists, rehabilitation experts, and anyone else who could help. All the work paid off a few days ago when each man put on a new hand for the first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they got their hands, they all cried.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The uniqueness of the situation and the barbaric nature of the act that was performed against these men galvanized the individuals involved to do something.

LAVANDERA: In less than six weeks they've learned what takes most months to master. What may seem simple like rolling a ball actually takes requires difficult muscle coordination. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got to combine all the motions of his arm and then tell this muscle to open at the right moment to let go of the ball. It's extremely complicated, and not all of them can do it, actually.

LAVANDERA: Each hand is a $25,000 gift. But to those that made this happen, each hand symbolizes much more. One man said it's about family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once he got his hand he said, you know what I'm really looking forward to is going home, holding my son in my left hand and my daughter in my right hand and walking down the street.

LAVANDERA: One of the men joked that when they look at their left hand they'll say made in Iraq. When they look at the right hand they'll think, Made in America.

Look now, these men aren't hiding their hands in their pockets anymore.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, Houston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHOI: Senator John Kerry may decide not to officially accept his party's nomination at the Democratic convention this summer. And the motivating factor is likely time and money. Once Kerry and President Bush become official nominees, their campaigns will be limited to spending the $75 million in federal funds they'll each receive.

But up until then, they are spending primary money. Bush's primary season is five weeks longer than Kerry's because of the convention schedules.

ROBERTS: Another accusation of lying. Could it mean a new trial for this woman? Martha Stewart?

CHOI: And picking up the pieces. A tornado rips through a small Iowa town. What survived its fury? The details when CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: Might there be a chance for a new trial for Martha Stewart? Well, there certainly is a 100 percent chance that former NBA star Jayson Williams will be tried again.

Sitting at our legal round table to talk about both of these cases this morning are former federal prosecutor Pam Bethel in Washington, and criminal defense attorney Josh Briskin in New York.

Thanks to both of you for join me.

PAM BETHEL, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

JOSH BRISKIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning. CHOI: Let's start with you, Pam. This was such a high-profile case the Martha Stewart case. You'd think each witness would be checked and double-checked. How in the world could this have happened?

BETHEL: That's the question I have asked myself. It's almost impossible for me to believe that the prosecutors didn't just interview Stewart, but also interviewed everyone who participated in the testing of the ink.

If they had done that, it seems to me that they would have discovered that there was a discrepancy between the other workers' statements -- that she did them alone, I believe -- and Stewart's testimony. I have no explanation as to how this would happen.

CHOI: Josh, what happens now?

BRISKIN: Pamela, you know, you've been a special prosecutor. This shouldn't surprise you that somebody lied like this in order to get a conviction.

(CROSS TALK)

BRISKIN: Come on.

CHOI: Josh, let's move forward.

(CROSS TALK)

CHOI: What happens now for Martha Stewart? Is there a chance that the case will be thrown out?

BRISKIN: They should throw the case out. They shouldn't even retry her. It's a disgrace.

BETHEL: While I agree.

BRISKIN: The whole case is a disgrace.

BETHEL: While I agree, I think it's a tough call for the judge on the legal grounds, but my bet would be there's going to be a new trial.

BRISKIN: I believe the prosecution ought to withdraw the charges and dismiss the case.

BETHEL: I don't think that's going to happen.

CHOI: Prosecutors are defending the judgment, though, even with this new development.

(CROSS TALK)

BETHEL: Yes, they are.

CHOI: Saying that it really didn't play a role in the decision. BETHEL: Well, they've got a very technical legal argument because the jury did not convict Peter, the broker, on the charges relating to the creation of false documents. But listen, a central theme of the case was the lying and deception, and that there was no such agreement to sell at $60. The fact they have a government agent witness -- not just a government witness, but an agent witness -- who lied about any issue related to that, I think they've got a weak argument.

BRISKIN: Who tells an agent the truth in the beginning? When an agent comes in to see a prospective defendant, what are they going to tell them the truth? I mean, it's a joke.

BETHEL: The problem they've got here, it is a question I would want to know. Why in the world didn't they put the woman who actually did the testing, why wasn't she the witness? Is there something wrong? Would she have said something else to corroborate another portion of the defense expert theory that there were multiple pens on that -- that the document was written by multiple pens, even though some of those pens pay have been the same make and same brand. This opens up just so many worms for the prosecution.

BRISKIN: I'll tell you something, it was a high-profile case. They wanted to get Martha Stewart and they didn't care what they did to convict this woman.

CHOI: All right, let's move on to another high-profile case, the Jayson Williams case.

BRISKIN: My favorite case.

CHOI: Prosecutors in New Jersey say they will retry him on the charge of reckless manslaughter. He was convicted on -- four lesser charges, but not that charge. Now they want to get him for that again. What will prosecutors do differently this time, Josh?

BRISKIN: Prosecutors, they'll ask for a new judge. That's the first thing they'll do because I'm sure they are not pleased with the way that case was tried with the judge they had handling the case. That would be the first thing.

CHOI: Pam, will they are interviewing the jurors from the first trial to gain insight into why they couldn't get a conviction?

BETHEL: A second trial, in my view, always (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with the prosecutors. But I know, Billy, we practiced together, Billy Martin, one of the trial lawyers. I think they'll change their strategy as well. I'm not sure if I were the prosecutor, I don't think I'd make that make that decision in that case. I'd just let Jayson be sentenced on the charges he was found guilty on and just forget the other.

CHOI: All right, Josh, you heard Pam. As she said, it always benefits the prosecutors in a new trail. What about the defense? What will they do to prepare? BRISKIN: Having had this experience numerous occasions, you better change your whole defense around. Because the prosecution is well, well prepared for your defense in a second trial. And it makes it that much more difficult for us.

So you have to change things around and tighten up any loose ends you have from the first trial. That's what you have to do.

BETHEL: Remember, in a retrial, prosecutors will be able to focus solely on the facts and evidence that support this charge. They learned where there were mistakes. Too long, they were too, you know, wasn't focused enough. I agree with Josh. I mean, the prosecutor benefits. But really smart, clever defense lawyers, like you, Josh, you guys figure it out and do better the second time.

BRISKIN: Thank you.

CHOI: Oh, what a compliment.

BRISKIN: It's nice that a prosecutor agrees with me.

CHOI: For once! For once guys!

(CROSS TALK)

CHOI: All right. You both likely agree with me this is an interesting case, the Brandon Mayfield case. He's an American attorney whom U.S. officials said he left fingerprints on a bag found near the Madrid train bombing site. So, he was arrested.

BRISKIN: Yes.

CHOI: But then he was later released, by Spanish authorities, after they said those no those fingerprints belong to another man, an Algerian man.

So, Pam, what kind of recourse does he have?

BETHEL: Yesterday was a bad day for federal law enforcement. Let's call it black Friday. I mean, that is just incredible. When I first heard it I thought it was incredible. The FBI was now success- guessed correctly by the Spanish officials, who from the very beginning said this doesn't make sense. And they were correct. I mean, I have no explanation, yet again.

CHOI: I wanted to get Josh's comments, but apparently we're having some audio problems with him. Let's stick with you, Pam.

BETHEL: OK.

CHOI: How responsible is the government in this case for those errors?

BETHEL: Again, I mean, fingerprint evidence is not new. It's been around for decades. And typically, you don't expect the lab, the FBI lab to get that kind of thing wrong. I think there's a rush for judgment. I think they are not following their own, you know, tried and true internal procedures, and so now they are making judgments and making links for the sort of high celebrity case that they wouldn't have done 10, 15, 20 years ago when I was a prosecutor.

And this is the kind of "oops goof" that you get. Now this man's life is ruined to a certain extent. That just shouldn't happen.

CHOI: Josh, we're talking about the Brandon Mayfield case, the American attorney arrested and then released by Spanish authorities. What is your take on that? What recourse do you think he has?

BRISKIN: I'll tell you, there's a few things. First of all, his civil rights have been so violated, it's terrible. This profiling of people, I'm involved right now myself with several cases in Philadelphia, a federal court, dealing with profiling of motorcyclists. They should bring -- I would bring a civil rights action against whoever I could, if I were him.

And furthermore, this gag order that they've placed on him. They take him into custody, they destroy his reputation, they embarrass his entire family. They call him a material witness. There's no bail. They hold him for, what, 18, 19 days?

They let him out and they say there's a gag order. This man can't even defend himself, have his lawyer come out in the press or in the media and say anything on his behalf. It is an absolute total disgrace that something like that would happen in this country.

CHOI: We shall see if a civil suit does arise out of that. Pam Bethel in Washington and criminal defense attorney Josh Briskin, thanks for your insight into all three of those cases.

BRISKIN: Thank you.

BETHEL: You're welcome.

CHOI: Do you think Martha Stewart should get a new trial? That's our e-mail question this morning and that was the lead topic in our legal roundtable this morning. Write us at wam@cnn.com. We'll read your responses a little later in the show.

ROBERTS: Stay with us, everybody. A true weather nightmare to talk about. Look at this. A tornado sweeps through a small town in Iowa pretty much damaging everything. We take you there, bring you the details when CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Welcome back everybody. The residents of Bradgate, Iowa, are picking up the pieces of their battered homes this morning after being hit by a devastating tornado. Look at this, 90 percent of the homes in the town were damaged by the twister, 15 people were injured. But luckily none of the injuries were serious. The storms also caused significant flooding in other parts of northwestern Iowa. (WEATHER FORECAST)

ROBERTS: Want to shift gears, go back to our e-mail question today. Probably going to be a big water cooler story this Monday when everybody goes back to work.

CHOI: This is the question: Should Martha Stewart get a new trial? E-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We're still look for those e-mails, but we did get a couple already.

ROBERTS: This first one coming into to us from Tom Gilliam, in Ohio.

"The government's case against Martha Stewart is rotten to the core. How many more government witnesses are in the woodwork? The highly bogus verdict should be set aside."

CHOI: And we got a different viewpoint right here.

"No, she should not get another trial. I liken this to a speeding ticket. Lots of people do it and few get caught. She should quit whining and take her dues." That from Gail Goodwin.

ROBERTS: If you want to write to us this morning, Wam@cnn.com is the e-mail. The topic, should Martha Stewart be getting a new trial?

Fighting cancer one step at a time. More than 3 million Americans participate each year in the American Cancer Society's Relay For Life. We get a look inside look at the fundraiser, that is coming up next on "House Call."

(PROMOTIONAL INFORMATION)

But first, travel season is here and CNN's "Summer Trips: Hidden Treasure" series, takes you to some of the most distinctive destinations across America. Today's stop, the Florida Everglades.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: The summer trip to the swamp? It might be more rewarding than you think. Last year, nearly a million tourists flocked to the Florida Everglades to check out the country's only unspoiled subtropical preserve. The national park is home to many walks of wild life, including 14 endangered species.

The best way to get around? Skimming the water on an airboat or gliding gently on a canoe.

Future plans for an $8 billion restoration hope to attract even more visitors in coming years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Hi, everybody. "House Call" is next. But first, these headlines for you.

A suicide car bomb in Baghdad this morning killed seven people, including the attacker. Among the 10 wound were an Iraqi deputy interior ministry and his wife.

Skyrocketing oil prices are on tap today at an informal meeting of OPEC ministers in Amsterdam. Saudi Arabia is proposing a boost in production of 2 million barrels a day. But don't expect any immediate relief at the pump. No formal decision will be made until June, when OPEC meets in Beirut.

OK, the rain in Spain didn't dampen the celebratory mood for the country's first royal wedding in 98 years. Look at this. Crown Prince Philippe was married this morning to a former TV host. Security was tight for the ceremony, as you can expect. With 20,000 police in the city and NATO F-18s patrolling the skies over head.

"House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 22, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING. Good morning. I'm Sophia Choi.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: Hi, everybody. Great to have you with us today. I'm Thomas Roberts.

Among the stories coming up this hour on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, righting wrongs. We'll have the remarkable story of medieval punishments corrected with modern technology. Also, as we were just talking about, Martha Stewart ink, and we don't me incorporated. Our legal experts will discuss whether perjury charges against a key witness will write a new chapter for Stewart.

Then later on "House Call," members of the CNN medical unit enter attend the American Cancer Society's annual Relay for Life in suburban Atlanta, one of the biggest events of its kind in the country.

CHOI: But first the headlines at this hour. A suicide car bomb kills seven Iraqis this morning, including the bomber. The bomb exploded outside the Baghdad home of a Abdul Jabbar Yousif, a deputy interior minister. And 10 Iraqis were wounded, Yousif and his wife, among them. Their injuries, though, are not life threatening.

And another car bomb, this one in a town south of Baghdad killed one American soldier and wounded three others. Few details are available on that bombing, but the U.S. military says two of the wounded soldiers were evacuated for medical treatment and the third returned to duty.

The Israeli military says a suicide bomber blew himself at a West Bank checkpoint near the Jewish settlement Bekaot A paramedic at the scene says four Palestinians and an Israeli soldier was injured. One of in the Palestinians is said to be seriously wounded.

ROBERTS: The prison abuse scandal seems to get worse with each passing day. U.S. military officials now say that criminal investigations are underway in the deaths of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Washington with the latest details on this.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Thomas. Well, two weeks ago the Pentagon announced that 25 investigations had been launched. Now Pentagon officials say the U.S. military has added eight more. That means a total of 33 criminal investigations are underway into the deaths of 37 detainees who were in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to Pentagon officials, of those 37 people who died, 32 of the deaths occurred in Iraq and five of the deaths occurred in Afghanistan. Now officials also say that 30 of the cases happened inside U.S. detention facilities and three cases were not in prisons.

Interrogation procedures continue to be the focus of an investigation as well. One that CNN has learned has led to a civilian contractor being referred to the Justice Department for possible criminal prosecution.

As for the probes into the deaths, four cases that took place inside detention facilities are listed as justified homicides that happened as prisoners were trying to escape. Now eight people were killed in those four cases. One at Camp Buka in southern Iraq and seven others at Abu Ghraib.

Now, two cases were listed as homicides and the Pentagon says that nine other investigations are still pending. Of those nine, all but three were cases in Iraq. Now, 15 other cases were declared to be death by natural or undetermined causes, say officials.

The Pentagon, meantime, also has released the death certificates that are part of the investigation. Now this is all taking place amidst new pictures of prisoner abuse and video that surfaced in media reports yesterday, something that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has warned might happen in the days and weeks ahead.

Thomas?

ROBERTS: More to come on this. Elaine Quijano live for us in Washington.

Elaine, thank you.

CHOI: "The Washington Post" says it has previously secret documents on the prison abuse scandal in Iraq. The documents include statements from four of the seven MPs charged with abusing detainees at Abu Ghraib near Baghdad. One MP, Sergeant Javal Davis said the prison got special visitors at nighttime, visitors from the FBI, military intelligence, and the military's criminal investigation division and other government agencies.

Davis said, quote, "They would be in and out of the wing interrogating prisoners, bringing them in or taking them away to the wood hut behind the hard site or away, period. Someone was always there from the other agencies or military personnel it seemed."

Outrage this morning at the raid, by Iraq police and U.S. troops, on the home of Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi politician. Chalabi is a member of the Iraq Governing Council appointed by the U.S. The council issued a statement, saying, it condemns and denounces the raid and calls for a respect for the law. And announces full solidarity with Dr. Ahmed Chalabi.

The council said, quote, "There is no justification for the storming of Chalabi's home."

ROBERTS: The brutality and repression of the Saddam Hussein regime are a thing of the past, but some wounds still remain and have lingering effects. For seven Iraqi men who were subjected Saddam's tyranny, a chance to become whole again is offering a new start. CNN's Ed Lavendera has their story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When seven Iraqi men first landed in Houston it was hard to tell they were hiding scars left by Saddam Hussein.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you first meet them, all their right hands are in their pockets, because that's the way they walked around for nine years, with the end of their limb stuffed in their pockets.

LAVANDERA: It was a subtle yet poignant behavior that prosthetic specialist David Beatty noticed. Muslim traditions view the left hand as dirty and disrespectful. The right hand is virtuous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The social stigma that was associated with not having a right hand affected not only these guys, but their family, their children.

LAVANDERA: Nine years ago these men were accused of illegally using U.S. dollars in Iraq. Saddam Hussein ordered their hand be cut off and that the men be sent back to their neighborhoods as an example of what would happen if you defied the regime.

(on camera): What these men have been through has been a well documented saga. Saddam Hussein men videotaped their hands being cut off and now a filmmaker is turning their story of loss and redemption into a documentary.

(voice over): The filmmaker found the men in Baghdad and started enlisting the help of reporters, doctors and prosthetic specialists, rehabilitation experts, and anyone else who could help. All the work paid off a few days ago when each man put on a new hand for the first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they got their hands, they all cried.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The uniqueness of the situation and the barbaric nature of the act that was performed against these men galvanized the individuals involved to do something.

LAVANDERA: In less than six weeks they've learned what takes most months to master. What may seem simple like rolling a ball actually takes requires difficult muscle coordination. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got to combine all the motions of his arm and then tell this muscle to open at the right moment to let go of the ball. It's extremely complicated, and not all of them can do it, actually.

LAVANDERA: Each hand is a $25,000 gift. But to those that made this happen, each hand symbolizes much more. One man said it's about family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once he got his hand he said, you know what I'm really looking forward to is going home, holding my son in my left hand and my daughter in my right hand and walking down the street.

LAVANDERA: One of the men joked that when they look at their left hand they'll say made in Iraq. When they look at the right hand they'll think, Made in America.

Look now, these men aren't hiding their hands in their pockets anymore.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, Houston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHOI: Senator John Kerry may decide not to officially accept his party's nomination at the Democratic convention this summer. And the motivating factor is likely time and money. Once Kerry and President Bush become official nominees, their campaigns will be limited to spending the $75 million in federal funds they'll each receive.

But up until then, they are spending primary money. Bush's primary season is five weeks longer than Kerry's because of the convention schedules.

ROBERTS: Another accusation of lying. Could it mean a new trial for this woman? Martha Stewart?

CHOI: And picking up the pieces. A tornado rips through a small Iowa town. What survived its fury? The details when CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: Might there be a chance for a new trial for Martha Stewart? Well, there certainly is a 100 percent chance that former NBA star Jayson Williams will be tried again.

Sitting at our legal round table to talk about both of these cases this morning are former federal prosecutor Pam Bethel in Washington, and criminal defense attorney Josh Briskin in New York.

Thanks to both of you for join me.

PAM BETHEL, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

JOSH BRISKIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning. CHOI: Let's start with you, Pam. This was such a high-profile case the Martha Stewart case. You'd think each witness would be checked and double-checked. How in the world could this have happened?

BETHEL: That's the question I have asked myself. It's almost impossible for me to believe that the prosecutors didn't just interview Stewart, but also interviewed everyone who participated in the testing of the ink.

If they had done that, it seems to me that they would have discovered that there was a discrepancy between the other workers' statements -- that she did them alone, I believe -- and Stewart's testimony. I have no explanation as to how this would happen.

CHOI: Josh, what happens now?

BRISKIN: Pamela, you know, you've been a special prosecutor. This shouldn't surprise you that somebody lied like this in order to get a conviction.

(CROSS TALK)

BRISKIN: Come on.

CHOI: Josh, let's move forward.

(CROSS TALK)

CHOI: What happens now for Martha Stewart? Is there a chance that the case will be thrown out?

BRISKIN: They should throw the case out. They shouldn't even retry her. It's a disgrace.

BETHEL: While I agree.

BRISKIN: The whole case is a disgrace.

BETHEL: While I agree, I think it's a tough call for the judge on the legal grounds, but my bet would be there's going to be a new trial.

BRISKIN: I believe the prosecution ought to withdraw the charges and dismiss the case.

BETHEL: I don't think that's going to happen.

CHOI: Prosecutors are defending the judgment, though, even with this new development.

(CROSS TALK)

BETHEL: Yes, they are.

CHOI: Saying that it really didn't play a role in the decision. BETHEL: Well, they've got a very technical legal argument because the jury did not convict Peter, the broker, on the charges relating to the creation of false documents. But listen, a central theme of the case was the lying and deception, and that there was no such agreement to sell at $60. The fact they have a government agent witness -- not just a government witness, but an agent witness -- who lied about any issue related to that, I think they've got a weak argument.

BRISKIN: Who tells an agent the truth in the beginning? When an agent comes in to see a prospective defendant, what are they going to tell them the truth? I mean, it's a joke.

BETHEL: The problem they've got here, it is a question I would want to know. Why in the world didn't they put the woman who actually did the testing, why wasn't she the witness? Is there something wrong? Would she have said something else to corroborate another portion of the defense expert theory that there were multiple pens on that -- that the document was written by multiple pens, even though some of those pens pay have been the same make and same brand. This opens up just so many worms for the prosecution.

BRISKIN: I'll tell you something, it was a high-profile case. They wanted to get Martha Stewart and they didn't care what they did to convict this woman.

CHOI: All right, let's move on to another high-profile case, the Jayson Williams case.

BRISKIN: My favorite case.

CHOI: Prosecutors in New Jersey say they will retry him on the charge of reckless manslaughter. He was convicted on -- four lesser charges, but not that charge. Now they want to get him for that again. What will prosecutors do differently this time, Josh?

BRISKIN: Prosecutors, they'll ask for a new judge. That's the first thing they'll do because I'm sure they are not pleased with the way that case was tried with the judge they had handling the case. That would be the first thing.

CHOI: Pam, will they are interviewing the jurors from the first trial to gain insight into why they couldn't get a conviction?

BETHEL: A second trial, in my view, always (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with the prosecutors. But I know, Billy, we practiced together, Billy Martin, one of the trial lawyers. I think they'll change their strategy as well. I'm not sure if I were the prosecutor, I don't think I'd make that make that decision in that case. I'd just let Jayson be sentenced on the charges he was found guilty on and just forget the other.

CHOI: All right, Josh, you heard Pam. As she said, it always benefits the prosecutors in a new trail. What about the defense? What will they do to prepare? BRISKIN: Having had this experience numerous occasions, you better change your whole defense around. Because the prosecution is well, well prepared for your defense in a second trial. And it makes it that much more difficult for us.

So you have to change things around and tighten up any loose ends you have from the first trial. That's what you have to do.

BETHEL: Remember, in a retrial, prosecutors will be able to focus solely on the facts and evidence that support this charge. They learned where there were mistakes. Too long, they were too, you know, wasn't focused enough. I agree with Josh. I mean, the prosecutor benefits. But really smart, clever defense lawyers, like you, Josh, you guys figure it out and do better the second time.

BRISKIN: Thank you.

CHOI: Oh, what a compliment.

BRISKIN: It's nice that a prosecutor agrees with me.

CHOI: For once! For once guys!

(CROSS TALK)

CHOI: All right. You both likely agree with me this is an interesting case, the Brandon Mayfield case. He's an American attorney whom U.S. officials said he left fingerprints on a bag found near the Madrid train bombing site. So, he was arrested.

BRISKIN: Yes.

CHOI: But then he was later released, by Spanish authorities, after they said those no those fingerprints belong to another man, an Algerian man.

So, Pam, what kind of recourse does he have?

BETHEL: Yesterday was a bad day for federal law enforcement. Let's call it black Friday. I mean, that is just incredible. When I first heard it I thought it was incredible. The FBI was now success- guessed correctly by the Spanish officials, who from the very beginning said this doesn't make sense. And they were correct. I mean, I have no explanation, yet again.

CHOI: I wanted to get Josh's comments, but apparently we're having some audio problems with him. Let's stick with you, Pam.

BETHEL: OK.

CHOI: How responsible is the government in this case for those errors?

BETHEL: Again, I mean, fingerprint evidence is not new. It's been around for decades. And typically, you don't expect the lab, the FBI lab to get that kind of thing wrong. I think there's a rush for judgment. I think they are not following their own, you know, tried and true internal procedures, and so now they are making judgments and making links for the sort of high celebrity case that they wouldn't have done 10, 15, 20 years ago when I was a prosecutor.

And this is the kind of "oops goof" that you get. Now this man's life is ruined to a certain extent. That just shouldn't happen.

CHOI: Josh, we're talking about the Brandon Mayfield case, the American attorney arrested and then released by Spanish authorities. What is your take on that? What recourse do you think he has?

BRISKIN: I'll tell you, there's a few things. First of all, his civil rights have been so violated, it's terrible. This profiling of people, I'm involved right now myself with several cases in Philadelphia, a federal court, dealing with profiling of motorcyclists. They should bring -- I would bring a civil rights action against whoever I could, if I were him.

And furthermore, this gag order that they've placed on him. They take him into custody, they destroy his reputation, they embarrass his entire family. They call him a material witness. There's no bail. They hold him for, what, 18, 19 days?

They let him out and they say there's a gag order. This man can't even defend himself, have his lawyer come out in the press or in the media and say anything on his behalf. It is an absolute total disgrace that something like that would happen in this country.

CHOI: We shall see if a civil suit does arise out of that. Pam Bethel in Washington and criminal defense attorney Josh Briskin, thanks for your insight into all three of those cases.

BRISKIN: Thank you.

BETHEL: You're welcome.

CHOI: Do you think Martha Stewart should get a new trial? That's our e-mail question this morning and that was the lead topic in our legal roundtable this morning. Write us at wam@cnn.com. We'll read your responses a little later in the show.

ROBERTS: Stay with us, everybody. A true weather nightmare to talk about. Look at this. A tornado sweeps through a small town in Iowa pretty much damaging everything. We take you there, bring you the details when CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Welcome back everybody. The residents of Bradgate, Iowa, are picking up the pieces of their battered homes this morning after being hit by a devastating tornado. Look at this, 90 percent of the homes in the town were damaged by the twister, 15 people were injured. But luckily none of the injuries were serious. The storms also caused significant flooding in other parts of northwestern Iowa. (WEATHER FORECAST)

ROBERTS: Want to shift gears, go back to our e-mail question today. Probably going to be a big water cooler story this Monday when everybody goes back to work.

CHOI: This is the question: Should Martha Stewart get a new trial? E-mail us at wam@cnn.com. We're still look for those e-mails, but we did get a couple already.

ROBERTS: This first one coming into to us from Tom Gilliam, in Ohio.

"The government's case against Martha Stewart is rotten to the core. How many more government witnesses are in the woodwork? The highly bogus verdict should be set aside."

CHOI: And we got a different viewpoint right here.

"No, she should not get another trial. I liken this to a speeding ticket. Lots of people do it and few get caught. She should quit whining and take her dues." That from Gail Goodwin.

ROBERTS: If you want to write to us this morning, Wam@cnn.com is the e-mail. The topic, should Martha Stewart be getting a new trial?

Fighting cancer one step at a time. More than 3 million Americans participate each year in the American Cancer Society's Relay For Life. We get a look inside look at the fundraiser, that is coming up next on "House Call."

(PROMOTIONAL INFORMATION)

But first, travel season is here and CNN's "Summer Trips: Hidden Treasure" series, takes you to some of the most distinctive destinations across America. Today's stop, the Florida Everglades.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: The summer trip to the swamp? It might be more rewarding than you think. Last year, nearly a million tourists flocked to the Florida Everglades to check out the country's only unspoiled subtropical preserve. The national park is home to many walks of wild life, including 14 endangered species.

The best way to get around? Skimming the water on an airboat or gliding gently on a canoe.

Future plans for an $8 billion restoration hope to attract even more visitors in coming years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Hi, everybody. "House Call" is next. But first, these headlines for you.

A suicide car bomb in Baghdad this morning killed seven people, including the attacker. Among the 10 wound were an Iraqi deputy interior ministry and his wife.

Skyrocketing oil prices are on tap today at an informal meeting of OPEC ministers in Amsterdam. Saudi Arabia is proposing a boost in production of 2 million barrels a day. But don't expect any immediate relief at the pump. No formal decision will be made until June, when OPEC meets in Beirut.

OK, the rain in Spain didn't dampen the celebratory mood for the country's first royal wedding in 98 years. Look at this. Crown Prince Philippe was married this morning to a former TV host. Security was tight for the ceremony, as you can expect. With 20,000 police in the city and NATO F-18s patrolling the skies over head.

"House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, begins right now.

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