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CNN Saturday Morning News

Saddam Hussein In Court

Aired July 03, 2004 - 07:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: From the CNN Center in Atlanta welcome to a special edition of this CNN SATURDAY MORNING: "Saddam Hussein in Court". I'm Drew Griffin.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Thank you so much for being with us today.

GRIFFIN: Coming up this hour: Saddam Hussein's day in court. Thursday's half-hour session, extraordinary to watch. If viewers were expecting to see a broken and contrite man they were mistaken. We are going to replay much of that video this hour. So you can judge for yourself.

Also ahead, a small army of lawyers enlisted to aide the former dictator in his upcoming legal battle. Already they are gearing up for intense and vigorous defense. We will be speaking with a legal expert about the finer points of the arraignment.

And later, seeing him on TV unleashes a flood of bitter memories, raw emotions of those who suffered under his regime.

All of that coming up this hour, but first we check the headlines.

NGUYEN: At least one person in New England is now a mega- millionaire. That's right, officials say a single ticket sold in Massachusetts matched all the numbers in Friday's Mega-Millions drawing.

Ticket sales in the 11 states that play the game drove the jackpot to a record $290 million. And the magic numbers, here they are: 10, 25, 38, 39, 50. And the mega ball was number 12.

The previous record pay out was 239 million bucks, back in February.

U.S. soldiers in Iraq have shut down a network of bomb building factories in southern Baghdad. They also detained dozens of suspected militants. In a two-day operation troops recovered car bombs, grenade launchers, explosives and other weapons. Coalition officials suspect the group is responsible for attacks that killed two U.S. soldiers.

Police in Kansas City, Kansas, say an employee at a meat packing plant opened fire on his co-workers yesterday killing four before shooting himself. Three others were wounded. One is still in critical condition.

An employee at the ConAgra plant said that the man had a conflict earlier in the week with some of his co-workers.

And above it all, Titan is proving to be a murky place. The Cassini spacecraft is sending back the first pictures of Saturn's largest moon. One NASA scientist says it appears Titan is "covered in an organic goo, not unlike the smog in Los Angeles," he says.

The moon, bigger than two planets, is Cassini's first target since it began orbiting Saturn this week.

GRIFFIN: The last time the world saw Saddam Hussein he looked as though he had been hiding under a rock, which is pretty close to the truth. In December he was yanked from a hole in the ground, dirty, disheveled, a mere shadow of his former self.

But that was then, and this is now. On Thursday the world got to see him again for the first time since his capture. Although this video was cleared by the U.S. military, it left little doubt; Saddam Hussein had regained much of his old bluster and bravado.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. Saddam Hussein, Najeed (ph), the president of the Republic of Iraq, 1937.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Profession?

HUSSEIN: Former president of the president of Iraq -- no present, current. It is the will of the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of the Ba'ath Party that is dissolved, defunct. Commander and Chief of the army, make between brackets make "former." Residence is Iraq.

You're mother's name?

HUSSEIN: Sabha.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stated the following? After positively I.D.ing the defendant, he was present before us.

HUSSEIN: May I have a clarification?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead, please.

HUSSEIN: You also have to introduce yourself to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Saddam, I am the investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq.

HUSSEIN: So that I have to know, you are investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court? Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi, that you are representing the occupying forces?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I am Iraqi representing Iraq.

HUSSEIN: But you are -- I was appointed by presidential decree under the former regime. So, you are reiterating that every Iraqi should respect the Iraq law. So the law that was instituted before represents the will of the people, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, God willing.

HUSSEIN: So, you should not work under the jurisdiction of the coalition and forces. This is an important point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a judge and the former regime I respect the judges and I am resuming and continuing my work. You, as any other citizen, you have to answer to any accusation or charge. That is true.

This is an arraignment, a charge, and if it can be proven then you will be convicted. If not, then everything is fine.

The judicial due process is to bring back rights. If there is evidence, you will be convicted. If there is not evidence you will not. Until now you are accused before the judicial system. So according to that...

HUSSEIN: So, please, let me -- I'm not complicating matters. Are you a judge? You are a judge? And judges, they value the law. And they rule by law, right? Right?

Right is a relative issue. For us, right is our heritage in the Koran, Sharia (ph), right?

I'm not talking about Saddam Hussein, whether he was a citizen or in other capacities. I'm not holding fast to my position, but to respect the will of the people that decided -- decided to choose Saddam Hussein as the leader of the revolution.

Therefore, when I say president of the Republic of Iraq, it is not a formality or holding fast to a position, but rather reiterate to the Iraqi people that I respect its will. This is one.

Number two, you summoned me to levy charges -- no, I -- you call it crimes. Then -- sorry -- the charges, the investigative judge -- if there is evidence then I'll defer to a court of jurisdiction.

Let me understand something. Who is the defendant? Any defendant when he comes to a court before that there should be investigation. This is not a court, this is an investigation now. Let me clarify this point, then I hope you remember you are a judge empowered by the people.

It doesn't really matter whether you convict me or not. That is not what's important. But what is important is that you remember that you are a judge. Then don't mention anything "occupying forces". This is not good. Then I judge by, in the name of people, then that's good. Then judge in the name of people. That's -- this is the Iraqi way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Saddam, this is the investigation process.

HUSSEIN: And investigative process, before, from the legal standpoint you were notified that I have lawyers, right? Am I not supposed to meet with the lawyers before I come before you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you give me just 10 minutes. Let's finish the formalities. And I'll come to that. Then if you wait, you will see that you have rights that are guaranteed.

HUSSEIN: OK, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the law, Mr. Saddam, the investigative judge has to give the defendant, give him the charges that are levied against him. And then reading the rights of all the charges.

According to the law, Article 123, 124, 125, the first step is are these articles, were they not signed by Saddam Hussein?

HUSSEIN: Yes, this is the law that was '73. So, this -- then, Saddam Hussein was representing the leadership and signed that law. So, now you are using the law that Saddam signed against Saddam? Saddam was the people -- please, the constitution and mechanism, I'm not a lawyer, but I understand. I'm originally a man of law. Can you, is it allowed to call a president, elected by the people, and charge him according to a law that was enacted under his will and the will of the people? There is some contradiction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the judicial process -- let me answer this clarification. First, I'm not deliberating a case against you, I'm investigating -- I'm investigating with you -- interrogating you. Second, the president is a profession; is a position, is a deputy of the society.

HUSSEIN: That's true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And originally, inherently he is a citizen. And every citizen, according to the law and the constitution, if this person violates a law, then has to come before the law. And that law, you know more than I do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Saddam Hussein trying to gain control of the court and perhaps his fate, as well. Seven broad charges lodged against Hussein during his court appearance. We're going to replay that portion of the arraignment in just a few minutes. As you'll see.

But former Iraqi president has quite a lot to say about that.

NGUYEN: Indeed. Well, what laws will apply to Saddam Hussein's court proceedings, American or Iraq? I'll ask and international law expert about that.

GRIFFIN: Plus, first impressions of Saddam's physical appearance in court, ahead on this special edition of CNN SATURDAY MORNING: "Saddam Hussein In Court".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein's family has hired a team of 20 lawyers to represent him in court proceedings. None was present at Thursday's hearing. But in a telephone interview from Jordan, one of his attorneys gives us a glimpse at what the former president's defense might be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM HUGHES, LAWYER FOR SADDAM HUSSEIN (VIA TELEPHONE): There are two fundamental issues to be approached and tackled and decided upon before we can get to the substantive defense.

The first one is that we will be arguing on his behalf that any trial in Baghdad cannot be fair, because it will not have the openness and fairness that trials in due legal process demand.

And secondly we will be saying that in straight Iraqi law he remains the president of Iraq because he was overthrown by what we will be describing as an illegal invasion.

Therefore, he still has the immunity from prosecution afforded to the sovereign of the Iraqi state and therefore the legal proceedings being brought against him are invalid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Hussein isn't expected to go on trial until sometime next year, at the earliest. The former dictator was handcuffed and shackled when he was brought from a secret location to the court proceeding. But the shackles were removed for the hearing.

Now, joining me from New York to talk more about Thursday's hearing and the legal fight ahead, is Pamela Falk, a professor of international law & trade.

Good morning, to you. Thanks for being with us.

PAMELA FALK, CITY UNIV. OF N.Y., INTERNATIONAL LAW: Good morning, Betty.

NGUYEN: Let's talk about this. We just looked at some of the video from Thursday's meeting where Saddam remained defiant. Kept insisting that he is still the president of Iraq. Later when they talked about gassing of the Kurds, Saddam said, you know, that is something that I saw on television.

Is this man delusional or is this part of his strategy?

FALK: Well, clearly the trial of Saddam Hussein will be a bellwether for accountability. His view is that he is still the president and in some ways, because -- unfortunately, because he was able to have an open forum, he was able to say his point of view.

And that was that the criminal is President Bush and he was not responsible and that this was an illegal invasion, and to sort of turn the table a little bit, asking his interrogator, the judge, questions.

But the real question here is how much accountability can be shown by this trial? Saddam Hussein was a butcher. He was a tyrant. And the trial will be important to have a chilling effect on other tyrants around the world.

This is not a high art. This is a hybrid of Iraqi law, of international law, the crimes pretty much are taken from the Rome Statue of the International Criminal Court. And those are genocide, crimes against humanity. But this is a developing area of international law. Really because from World War II on, there is a new sense, it is called universal jurisdiction, that there is some crimes that there is no immunity.

But that will clearly be his defense. That he is immune because he was president of republic at the time.

NGUYEN: Right, which we heard.

Talk to us a little bit about how this is going to play out, because our viewers have a lot of questions about the judge. Who is this man? Why are the identities being withheld?

FALK: Well, we don't know who the judge is and that is for security reasons. All of the names of the prosecutors and the judge are being withheld. What we do know is that Salem Chalabi, who is the nephew of Ahmed Chalabi, and was also Salem Chalabi, himself, a 41- year-old member of the Iraqi Governing Council.

NGUYEN: Fairly young, yes.

FALK: Yes, he was Yale educated. He is very -- and he's a member of the American Bar Association. He is very well educated on international law and Iraqi law. The real issue here is that the perception is as important as the reality on the trial. And the perception has to cut between being seen as too long in giving him some kind of forum, like Milosevic got in Yugoslavia, where he was basically running elections from the trial -- and still is. Or the other flipside of that, something too short where he isn't seen as given justice by the Iraqi people.

NGUYEN: And speaking of justice...

FALK: Somewhere in between is the right mix, but it is very difficult.

NGUYEN: Pamela, our viewers want to know as well, and Saddam asked these questions. Who is controlling these procedures? Is it Iraqi law? Is it U.S. law? Where do they define this line? FALK: We'll see all of these procedures laid out and this is barely a courthouse, at this point. They're really starting in a pretty fast -- and by all standards, he probably should have spoken with one of those lawyers that he has, before he went to this pre- trial.

But the answer to the question is, Iraqi law. Iraqi law was established with an Iraqi special tribunal and that was a year ago, in December. A few months actually before Saddam Hussein was captured. For this very reason, it was established to try him.

There was also Iraqi interim law. The problem here is that it is still and interim government until it is elected at the end of 2005. And so it is very important to make sure that it seen as led by Iraqis not by the former U.S. occupation, which just ended.

NGUYEN: Quickly, we looked at the video and underneath it says, the U.S. military has cleared this video. Why is the military being involved in this if this is under Iraqi control?

FALK: Well, the U.N. resolution still gave the U.S. a role as part of the multinational force that has the U.N. stamp of approval. It is still run by the U.S. and therefore the U.S. troops are still guarding his security.

Security issues are obviously the biggest concern in this trial. That he is not killed -- or released -- during this trial. And so the U.S. is clearing it for purposes of some sense that there could be a revelation of who the judge is and therefore a death sentence to the judge. It is really for security reasons. That is also why the audio was withheld for a while, but that was ultimately releases.

NGUYEN: Yes, later released. All right, Pamela Falk, professor of international law, thank you very much.

FALK: You're welcome, Betty.

NGUYEN: Drew.

GRIFFIN: Saddam Hussein hears the list of possible charges brought against him, we'll have his reaction ahead. Plus, one man who says both he and his family experienced the wrath of Saddam's secret police. His thoughts on the former dictator's day in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein has his day in court. Welcome back to a special edition of CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Betty Nguyen.

GRIFFIN: I'm Drew Griffin at CNN Center here in Atlanta. More on our lead story after headlines at this hour.

A U.S. Marine has died a day after being wounded in western Iraq. The Marine with the First Expeditionary Force was attacked while on patrol in the Sunni dominated Al Anbar Province, that is west of Baghdad. Former Iraq hostage Thomas Hamill will be the grand marshal of a holiday parade in his hometown of Macon, Mississippi. The parade is dubbed the "Patriotic Praise Parade". Hamill, who is a civilian contractor, was held captive for three weeks before he escaped on May 2. He's already signed a book deal, that book due out in October.

One lucky person is holding the winning ticket in very shaky hands, I'm sure, for the record $290 million Mega Millions Lottery Jackpot. Crowds of people eager to become multi-millionaires gathered right there in New York last night for the live drawing.

The winning numbers: 10, 25, 38, 39, 50; mega ball, number 12.

The winning ticket in the 11 state drawing was bought in Massachusetts.

NGUYEN: And of course, neither of us have had that winning ticket, or we wouldn't be here right now.

Well, on to our top story. We return now to Saddam Hussein's court appearance on Thursday. In this portion, the judge reads the seven charges against the former president and tries unsuccessfully to get the defendant to sign them. And as you will see, Saddam, at times, seemed shocked at what he is hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The crimes that are charges, intended killing by using chemical weapons in Halabja. Second, intended killing to a great number of Iraqis in 1983. Three, intended killing to a number of members of the political parties without trials. Fourth, intended killing to many Iraqi religious people. Fifth, intending killing to many Iraqis in Al Fahl and without any evidence against them.

Four you have the right to defend and answer. These are the guarantees.

Now, we come to an important matter. You have heard the court read the crimes that you're charged -- or were attributed to the accused, Saddam Hussein. And according to the -- and you were told what the articles of the law that applies to those cases. And the court has read to you the rights and guarantees that any accuser is entitled to, which includes the rights of defense, and representation.

And also the right not to answer any question asked and that will never be used as evidence against you, against the accused. And the court also presented to the accused, the right argue the evidence. The accused asked, requested, to meet with a defense lawyer -- with defense lawyers. Yes, defense lawyers that are his private defense lawyers to be present with him in the investigative sessions.

And in light of that, the minutes were concluded, and the investigation is deferred, postponed until the accused is enabled to contact his representation, his lawyers, and another appointment for the next session will be decided. HUSSEIN (through translator): Yes, the charges were levied against Saddam Hussein ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead -- You should sign so that I can talk to you.

HUSSEIN: OK, let me sign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The arraignment was held at one of the former presidential palaces, not far from the Baghdad International Airport. That palace is now an important historic site, although perhaps not in the way Saddam intended when it was built.

Still ahead, an expert on Iraq on will join us to discuss Saddam's place in Iraqi history and culture.

GRIFFIN: And he says he saw Saddam's secret police murder his family. Now, 22 years after fleeing Iraq, one man's reaction to the former dictator's day in court. That is still to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER OF SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): Of course, I don't believe he'll receive a fair trial, because it will conducted by unrecognized party. The interim government is not recognized, internationally, nor in the Arab world. It has not been recognized by anyone. So, by what right will the trail proceed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regarding for Saddam Hussein. Let Saddam Hussein see the new Iraq, that he will face a trail. In the former regime, that he didn't allow anyone. Just hang them. Hang them without any trial.

So, for the new Iraq, they allow him to see the trail, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the TV, and others. And he has a right to defend himself. So, let's Saddam Hussein see what had never been seen in his regime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Voices from across Iraq. They had a lot to say after Saddam Hussein's court appearance Thursday. Some showing support for the former dictator, while others, like this rally in the city of Kasamia (ph), calling for his execution.

Iraq scholar Amatzia Baram is in our Washington bureau, he's testified about Iraq and Saddam Hussein, written books, testified before Congress.

Good morning to you, Sir.

AMATZIA BARAM, IRAQI SCHOLAR: Good morning. GRIFFIN: We have seen headlines, which say, a defiant leader, trying to establish his authority. You say, more than anything else this appearance in court was embarrassing for Saddam's supporters.

BARAM: Yes, we saw yesterday some footage. But mostly around Tikrit, his hometown and his tribe and neighboring tribes, friendly tribes. But most of his supporters are somewhat embarrassed by him.

And the best example of that is that you don't have pro-Saddam demonstrations in much of the areas where he was supported before. And not even one of the groups that kidnapped, you know, hostages -- these horrible cases -- not one of these groups ever asked for Saddam's release.

GRIFFIN: You're reaction to his appearance, his physical appearance in court, in which he looks somewhat different then he did as president?

BARAM: I would say he looks leaner and meaner. He's very self- assured. He's very argumentative. He knows what he's saying. He's trying educate the judge. He has this predilection to educate the nation.

He was always giving TV shows, TV speeches, educating the people. He even explained to children how to brush their teeth. And he educated how to keep their hygiene. He was a great educator of the nation.

And he continues to educate the judge, telling him, you shouldn't do this and you should do that. This is the Iraqi way, that is how you should behave. It is very interesting, he's himself.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Baram, is he trying to educate or convince himself that he's still somewhat the leader of this country?

BARAM: That is an interesting question. I think that he believes he represents the Iraqi people because in two election campaigns -- or actually he was the only presidential candidate -- he won 98.7 percent in the first one and in the most recent one, 100 percent.

On that one, I think, over time, convinced himself that the people really want him. It is not delusion. It is -- I would call it self-hypnosis over a very specific issue. Because the only way he justified to himself that he is legitimate, as the president of Iraq -- when he was still president -- was to get some people to vote for him.

Somebody would play with the results, of course, and then his lieutenants would say, you got 100 percent. And I think that he sort of convinced himself that this was really a proper public opinion poll. And yes, now I believe he believes in it. But he is not delusional. This "delusion", quote/unquote, is very, very important for his own self-confidence.

GRIFFIN: And that confidence, his defense basically is, that law of Iraq, which I made, says you can't charge the president with anything?

BARAM: Correct. This is another issue. Saddam has a Ph.D. in law -- he really doesn't -- but officially speaking. And he enacted laws that in order to feel that he was -- that he himself was acting within the law, that Iraq was a law-abiding state. It was a very important issue for his own self-image again, and the regime's self- image.

Often -- not often -- in certain cases, they enacted secret laws. Laws that nobody knew what they said. And when they were executing people, they were executing them according to that secret law, these people would never know what that law said.

So, it was mainly for their own self-image that we are acting within the law. And now, he's saying, actually there is a law, you cannot charge a president for doing something -- for which you disagree -- as part of his duty as president. Well, that's very convenient, but I think this is Saddam. This is really Saddam. Very legalistic, and he needed it for his own self-confidence and self- assurance.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Baram, we thank you for joining us this morning, very insightful, Sir. Thank you.

BARAM: Thank you, very much.

GRIFFIN: Betty.

NGUYEN: Fascinating, in fact.

Well, Saddam Hussein in court, realizing his fate. We will have much more of that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back to CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin. This hour, examining Saddam Hussein's appearance in court on Thursday. But first, a look at some of the headlines from across America on this morning.

Attorneys in Washington filing petitions to get nine Guantanamo prisoners their day in court. The Supreme Court ruling Monday that those held as terror suspects are enemy combatants in military custody, do have the right to challenge their detentions.

On the road for the holiday, Senator John Kerry making a July Fourth weekend bus tour through parts of the Midwest. He is making stops in Wisconsin and Iowa. He was in Minnesota yesterday.

The trip comes as Democratic sources tell CNN, Kerry may announce his choice for a running mate as early as this coming week.

Vice President Dick Cheney is taking a ride as well. His bus traveling through Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

A fugitive sex offender is being held now without bond in Arlington County, Virginia, after he was captured in Guatemala. Police launched a manhunt for the suspect on Monday after he failed to appear in a hearing in Virginia. He is accused of molesting a 17- year-old boy. He's already been convicted on sex offense charges in the state of Maryland.

And in Alaska, it is hot and dry and windy, fanning these flames of an incredible wildfire. Firefighting planes have been grounded because of the dense smoke. Hundreds of people forced from their homes. This fire is 30 miles northeast of Fairbanks. It has tripled in recent days, now at 215,000 acres.

NGUYEN: Back to our special coverage. Those who survived Saddam Hussein's regime have waited a long time to see the former leader in court, including one man who was victimized by the secret police. Still to come, his reaction to the dictator's day in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein's court appearance Thursday can be summed up in just one word, "defiant". As the session went on Saddam became more and more intent on setting the record straight, as he sees it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HUSSEIN (through translator): But you levied charges as -- in my capacity as the president of the republic. The talk about Halabja, I used to hear about that on the radio. Attacking Halabja and the regime of Saddam Hussein.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is only the legal the matters and you have the right to not an answer until the lawyer is present. This is for the previous review.

HUSSEIN: If you want to review, repeat it in the presence of the lawyers. And I don't sign then, yes. But if you want me to sign and then the lawyers come, then no. You have to hear me out.

Then -- and the occupation of Kuwait, the charge number seven, unfortunately, it is unfortunately that this is coming out of an Iraqi, but I know -- the law is there. Law, to charge Saddam Hussein, because Kuwait has said that Iraqis -- because the Iraqi women will come to the street for 10 dinars, and I defended the honor of the Iraqis.

Those animals, don't use foul language and attack. This is a legal session, yes, I bear responsibilities for everything. Anything outside of obscenity or outside the norms of the a legal session is not acceptable. Then forgive me, allow me, the seventh charge was against Saddam Hussein, as a president of the republic and the commander-in-chief of the army and the army went to Kuwait. OK?

Then in the former capacity, then is it permissible to charge an official title and the person is to be dealt with in violation with the guarantees that are afforded by the constitution. This is the law that you are using to use against me now. This is crux of the matter, Mr. Judge. Charges are levied because actions were taken in a system whose president was Saddam Hussein, but without guarantees, presidential guarantees. This is from the legal standpoint.

Well, answer to those charges. This is investigation, answer. You tell us formally, this is only for the minutes. If you read the minutes, we say that we postpone the investigation. Then, please, allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present. That is -- that is fine, but this is the ...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The next court date has not yet been set and Saddam Hussein, for now, remains in the physical custody of the U.S. military. But without doubt, one of the most fascinating chapters of Iraqi history is now unfolding before all of us.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: For many of those who suffered under Saddam Hussein seeing him called to account for his crimes was something they had only imagined, never thought they actually see in person. For one victim the experience was almost too much. Harry Smith of ITV has that report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, look! Oh, Saddam.

HARRY SMITH, ITV CORRESPONDENT (voice over): He was tortured by Saddam's secret police. More than 70 members of his family were slaughtered. As he watched his tormentor face justice, Sahib Alhakim could not hide the hatred.

SAHIB ALHAKIM, FORMER IRAQI PRISONER: Ah! Saddam, criminal. Ah! You should die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice should be done.

ALHAKIM: You don't deserve life.

SMITH: After the anger, the years of pain came flooding back.

ALHAKIM: I remember the people who have been buried in mass graves. I attend the excavation of many mass graves. I have seen the bodies without heads. And I know that Uday, the son of this dictator, have beheaded a lot of women because they are not loyal to the regime.

So, it came to my mind, when I saw these bodies have been buried, who are innocent because they open their mouth against the regime.

SMITH: Dr. Alhakim fled Iraq 22 years ago and as long as Saddam was in power he lived constantly under the threat of his assassins. His family have paid a terrible price for opposing the dictator.

ALHAKIM: All these are members of my family, Alhakim, have been arrested and killed by Saddam regime. This is my brother, Mr. Jabar Alhakim, who had been killed by Saddam. They used radium (ph) poisoning.

This is my cousin, Al Falamad Barkar (ph) Alhakim. He has been killed by explosion in Holy City Najaf.

SMITH: For Sahib Alhakim, this has been a day of extraordinary mixed emotions. From the pain of the past to the hope of seeing justice of the future.

Harry Smith, ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And this concludes our special coverage of "Saddam Hussein in Court".

GRIFFIN: The next hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING begins right now.

NGUYEN: Welcome, from the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

Good morning to you. I'm Betty Nguyen.

GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. We thank you for joining us on this holiday weekend.

Coming up this hour, anger at the workplace turns deadly. A man at a meat packing plant in Kansas City opens fire on his coworkers during a dinner break. We'll go live to the ConAgra plant for details on this.

Also ahead, firefighters in Alaska hoping cooler weather will help them as they are battling a fire that has scorched thousands of acres near Fairbanks.

And later, if you bought a lottery ticket in Massachusetts, check the number, please. Somewhere out there, in Massachusetts is one piece of paper that is worth mega-millions.

All that coming up this hour, but first we check this morning's headlines.

NGUYEN: Nine hundred million miles from Earth, NASA scientists have found something that looks likes smog. NASA experts say the images from the Cassini spacecraft show the surface of Saturn's moon, Titan

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Aired July 3, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: From the CNN Center in Atlanta welcome to a special edition of this CNN SATURDAY MORNING: "Saddam Hussein in Court". I'm Drew Griffin.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Thank you so much for being with us today.

GRIFFIN: Coming up this hour: Saddam Hussein's day in court. Thursday's half-hour session, extraordinary to watch. If viewers were expecting to see a broken and contrite man they were mistaken. We are going to replay much of that video this hour. So you can judge for yourself.

Also ahead, a small army of lawyers enlisted to aide the former dictator in his upcoming legal battle. Already they are gearing up for intense and vigorous defense. We will be speaking with a legal expert about the finer points of the arraignment.

And later, seeing him on TV unleashes a flood of bitter memories, raw emotions of those who suffered under his regime.

All of that coming up this hour, but first we check the headlines.

NGUYEN: At least one person in New England is now a mega- millionaire. That's right, officials say a single ticket sold in Massachusetts matched all the numbers in Friday's Mega-Millions drawing.

Ticket sales in the 11 states that play the game drove the jackpot to a record $290 million. And the magic numbers, here they are: 10, 25, 38, 39, 50. And the mega ball was number 12.

The previous record pay out was 239 million bucks, back in February.

U.S. soldiers in Iraq have shut down a network of bomb building factories in southern Baghdad. They also detained dozens of suspected militants. In a two-day operation troops recovered car bombs, grenade launchers, explosives and other weapons. Coalition officials suspect the group is responsible for attacks that killed two U.S. soldiers.

Police in Kansas City, Kansas, say an employee at a meat packing plant opened fire on his co-workers yesterday killing four before shooting himself. Three others were wounded. One is still in critical condition.

An employee at the ConAgra plant said that the man had a conflict earlier in the week with some of his co-workers.

And above it all, Titan is proving to be a murky place. The Cassini spacecraft is sending back the first pictures of Saturn's largest moon. One NASA scientist says it appears Titan is "covered in an organic goo, not unlike the smog in Los Angeles," he says.

The moon, bigger than two planets, is Cassini's first target since it began orbiting Saturn this week.

GRIFFIN: The last time the world saw Saddam Hussein he looked as though he had been hiding under a rock, which is pretty close to the truth. In December he was yanked from a hole in the ground, dirty, disheveled, a mere shadow of his former self.

But that was then, and this is now. On Thursday the world got to see him again for the first time since his capture. Although this video was cleared by the U.S. military, it left little doubt; Saddam Hussein had regained much of his old bluster and bravado.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. Saddam Hussein, Najeed (ph), the president of the Republic of Iraq, 1937.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Profession?

HUSSEIN: Former president of the president of Iraq -- no present, current. It is the will of the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of the Ba'ath Party that is dissolved, defunct. Commander and Chief of the army, make between brackets make "former." Residence is Iraq.

You're mother's name?

HUSSEIN: Sabha.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stated the following? After positively I.D.ing the defendant, he was present before us.

HUSSEIN: May I have a clarification?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead, please.

HUSSEIN: You also have to introduce yourself to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Saddam, I am the investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq.

HUSSEIN: So that I have to know, you are investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court? Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi, that you are representing the occupying forces?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I am Iraqi representing Iraq.

HUSSEIN: But you are -- I was appointed by presidential decree under the former regime. So, you are reiterating that every Iraqi should respect the Iraq law. So the law that was instituted before represents the will of the people, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, God willing.

HUSSEIN: So, you should not work under the jurisdiction of the coalition and forces. This is an important point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a judge and the former regime I respect the judges and I am resuming and continuing my work. You, as any other citizen, you have to answer to any accusation or charge. That is true.

This is an arraignment, a charge, and if it can be proven then you will be convicted. If not, then everything is fine.

The judicial due process is to bring back rights. If there is evidence, you will be convicted. If there is not evidence you will not. Until now you are accused before the judicial system. So according to that...

HUSSEIN: So, please, let me -- I'm not complicating matters. Are you a judge? You are a judge? And judges, they value the law. And they rule by law, right? Right?

Right is a relative issue. For us, right is our heritage in the Koran, Sharia (ph), right?

I'm not talking about Saddam Hussein, whether he was a citizen or in other capacities. I'm not holding fast to my position, but to respect the will of the people that decided -- decided to choose Saddam Hussein as the leader of the revolution.

Therefore, when I say president of the Republic of Iraq, it is not a formality or holding fast to a position, but rather reiterate to the Iraqi people that I respect its will. This is one.

Number two, you summoned me to levy charges -- no, I -- you call it crimes. Then -- sorry -- the charges, the investigative judge -- if there is evidence then I'll defer to a court of jurisdiction.

Let me understand something. Who is the defendant? Any defendant when he comes to a court before that there should be investigation. This is not a court, this is an investigation now. Let me clarify this point, then I hope you remember you are a judge empowered by the people.

It doesn't really matter whether you convict me or not. That is not what's important. But what is important is that you remember that you are a judge. Then don't mention anything "occupying forces". This is not good. Then I judge by, in the name of people, then that's good. Then judge in the name of people. That's -- this is the Iraqi way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Saddam, this is the investigation process.

HUSSEIN: And investigative process, before, from the legal standpoint you were notified that I have lawyers, right? Am I not supposed to meet with the lawyers before I come before you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you give me just 10 minutes. Let's finish the formalities. And I'll come to that. Then if you wait, you will see that you have rights that are guaranteed.

HUSSEIN: OK, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the law, Mr. Saddam, the investigative judge has to give the defendant, give him the charges that are levied against him. And then reading the rights of all the charges.

According to the law, Article 123, 124, 125, the first step is are these articles, were they not signed by Saddam Hussein?

HUSSEIN: Yes, this is the law that was '73. So, this -- then, Saddam Hussein was representing the leadership and signed that law. So, now you are using the law that Saddam signed against Saddam? Saddam was the people -- please, the constitution and mechanism, I'm not a lawyer, but I understand. I'm originally a man of law. Can you, is it allowed to call a president, elected by the people, and charge him according to a law that was enacted under his will and the will of the people? There is some contradiction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the judicial process -- let me answer this clarification. First, I'm not deliberating a case against you, I'm investigating -- I'm investigating with you -- interrogating you. Second, the president is a profession; is a position, is a deputy of the society.

HUSSEIN: That's true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And originally, inherently he is a citizen. And every citizen, according to the law and the constitution, if this person violates a law, then has to come before the law. And that law, you know more than I do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Saddam Hussein trying to gain control of the court and perhaps his fate, as well. Seven broad charges lodged against Hussein during his court appearance. We're going to replay that portion of the arraignment in just a few minutes. As you'll see.

But former Iraqi president has quite a lot to say about that.

NGUYEN: Indeed. Well, what laws will apply to Saddam Hussein's court proceedings, American or Iraq? I'll ask and international law expert about that.

GRIFFIN: Plus, first impressions of Saddam's physical appearance in court, ahead on this special edition of CNN SATURDAY MORNING: "Saddam Hussein In Court".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein's family has hired a team of 20 lawyers to represent him in court proceedings. None was present at Thursday's hearing. But in a telephone interview from Jordan, one of his attorneys gives us a glimpse at what the former president's defense might be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM HUGHES, LAWYER FOR SADDAM HUSSEIN (VIA TELEPHONE): There are two fundamental issues to be approached and tackled and decided upon before we can get to the substantive defense.

The first one is that we will be arguing on his behalf that any trial in Baghdad cannot be fair, because it will not have the openness and fairness that trials in due legal process demand.

And secondly we will be saying that in straight Iraqi law he remains the president of Iraq because he was overthrown by what we will be describing as an illegal invasion.

Therefore, he still has the immunity from prosecution afforded to the sovereign of the Iraqi state and therefore the legal proceedings being brought against him are invalid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Hussein isn't expected to go on trial until sometime next year, at the earliest. The former dictator was handcuffed and shackled when he was brought from a secret location to the court proceeding. But the shackles were removed for the hearing.

Now, joining me from New York to talk more about Thursday's hearing and the legal fight ahead, is Pamela Falk, a professor of international law & trade.

Good morning, to you. Thanks for being with us.

PAMELA FALK, CITY UNIV. OF N.Y., INTERNATIONAL LAW: Good morning, Betty.

NGUYEN: Let's talk about this. We just looked at some of the video from Thursday's meeting where Saddam remained defiant. Kept insisting that he is still the president of Iraq. Later when they talked about gassing of the Kurds, Saddam said, you know, that is something that I saw on television.

Is this man delusional or is this part of his strategy?

FALK: Well, clearly the trial of Saddam Hussein will be a bellwether for accountability. His view is that he is still the president and in some ways, because -- unfortunately, because he was able to have an open forum, he was able to say his point of view.

And that was that the criminal is President Bush and he was not responsible and that this was an illegal invasion, and to sort of turn the table a little bit, asking his interrogator, the judge, questions.

But the real question here is how much accountability can be shown by this trial? Saddam Hussein was a butcher. He was a tyrant. And the trial will be important to have a chilling effect on other tyrants around the world.

This is not a high art. This is a hybrid of Iraqi law, of international law, the crimes pretty much are taken from the Rome Statue of the International Criminal Court. And those are genocide, crimes against humanity. But this is a developing area of international law. Really because from World War II on, there is a new sense, it is called universal jurisdiction, that there is some crimes that there is no immunity.

But that will clearly be his defense. That he is immune because he was president of republic at the time.

NGUYEN: Right, which we heard.

Talk to us a little bit about how this is going to play out, because our viewers have a lot of questions about the judge. Who is this man? Why are the identities being withheld?

FALK: Well, we don't know who the judge is and that is for security reasons. All of the names of the prosecutors and the judge are being withheld. What we do know is that Salem Chalabi, who is the nephew of Ahmed Chalabi, and was also Salem Chalabi, himself, a 41- year-old member of the Iraqi Governing Council.

NGUYEN: Fairly young, yes.

FALK: Yes, he was Yale educated. He is very -- and he's a member of the American Bar Association. He is very well educated on international law and Iraqi law. The real issue here is that the perception is as important as the reality on the trial. And the perception has to cut between being seen as too long in giving him some kind of forum, like Milosevic got in Yugoslavia, where he was basically running elections from the trial -- and still is. Or the other flipside of that, something too short where he isn't seen as given justice by the Iraqi people.

NGUYEN: And speaking of justice...

FALK: Somewhere in between is the right mix, but it is very difficult.

NGUYEN: Pamela, our viewers want to know as well, and Saddam asked these questions. Who is controlling these procedures? Is it Iraqi law? Is it U.S. law? Where do they define this line? FALK: We'll see all of these procedures laid out and this is barely a courthouse, at this point. They're really starting in a pretty fast -- and by all standards, he probably should have spoken with one of those lawyers that he has, before he went to this pre- trial.

But the answer to the question is, Iraqi law. Iraqi law was established with an Iraqi special tribunal and that was a year ago, in December. A few months actually before Saddam Hussein was captured. For this very reason, it was established to try him.

There was also Iraqi interim law. The problem here is that it is still and interim government until it is elected at the end of 2005. And so it is very important to make sure that it seen as led by Iraqis not by the former U.S. occupation, which just ended.

NGUYEN: Quickly, we looked at the video and underneath it says, the U.S. military has cleared this video. Why is the military being involved in this if this is under Iraqi control?

FALK: Well, the U.N. resolution still gave the U.S. a role as part of the multinational force that has the U.N. stamp of approval. It is still run by the U.S. and therefore the U.S. troops are still guarding his security.

Security issues are obviously the biggest concern in this trial. That he is not killed -- or released -- during this trial. And so the U.S. is clearing it for purposes of some sense that there could be a revelation of who the judge is and therefore a death sentence to the judge. It is really for security reasons. That is also why the audio was withheld for a while, but that was ultimately releases.

NGUYEN: Yes, later released. All right, Pamela Falk, professor of international law, thank you very much.

FALK: You're welcome, Betty.

NGUYEN: Drew.

GRIFFIN: Saddam Hussein hears the list of possible charges brought against him, we'll have his reaction ahead. Plus, one man who says both he and his family experienced the wrath of Saddam's secret police. His thoughts on the former dictator's day in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein has his day in court. Welcome back to a special edition of CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Betty Nguyen.

GRIFFIN: I'm Drew Griffin at CNN Center here in Atlanta. More on our lead story after headlines at this hour.

A U.S. Marine has died a day after being wounded in western Iraq. The Marine with the First Expeditionary Force was attacked while on patrol in the Sunni dominated Al Anbar Province, that is west of Baghdad. Former Iraq hostage Thomas Hamill will be the grand marshal of a holiday parade in his hometown of Macon, Mississippi. The parade is dubbed the "Patriotic Praise Parade". Hamill, who is a civilian contractor, was held captive for three weeks before he escaped on May 2. He's already signed a book deal, that book due out in October.

One lucky person is holding the winning ticket in very shaky hands, I'm sure, for the record $290 million Mega Millions Lottery Jackpot. Crowds of people eager to become multi-millionaires gathered right there in New York last night for the live drawing.

The winning numbers: 10, 25, 38, 39, 50; mega ball, number 12.

The winning ticket in the 11 state drawing was bought in Massachusetts.

NGUYEN: And of course, neither of us have had that winning ticket, or we wouldn't be here right now.

Well, on to our top story. We return now to Saddam Hussein's court appearance on Thursday. In this portion, the judge reads the seven charges against the former president and tries unsuccessfully to get the defendant to sign them. And as you will see, Saddam, at times, seemed shocked at what he is hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The crimes that are charges, intended killing by using chemical weapons in Halabja. Second, intended killing to a great number of Iraqis in 1983. Three, intended killing to a number of members of the political parties without trials. Fourth, intended killing to many Iraqi religious people. Fifth, intending killing to many Iraqis in Al Fahl and without any evidence against them.

Four you have the right to defend and answer. These are the guarantees.

Now, we come to an important matter. You have heard the court read the crimes that you're charged -- or were attributed to the accused, Saddam Hussein. And according to the -- and you were told what the articles of the law that applies to those cases. And the court has read to you the rights and guarantees that any accuser is entitled to, which includes the rights of defense, and representation.

And also the right not to answer any question asked and that will never be used as evidence against you, against the accused. And the court also presented to the accused, the right argue the evidence. The accused asked, requested, to meet with a defense lawyer -- with defense lawyers. Yes, defense lawyers that are his private defense lawyers to be present with him in the investigative sessions.

And in light of that, the minutes were concluded, and the investigation is deferred, postponed until the accused is enabled to contact his representation, his lawyers, and another appointment for the next session will be decided. HUSSEIN (through translator): Yes, the charges were levied against Saddam Hussein ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead -- You should sign so that I can talk to you.

HUSSEIN: OK, let me sign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The arraignment was held at one of the former presidential palaces, not far from the Baghdad International Airport. That palace is now an important historic site, although perhaps not in the way Saddam intended when it was built.

Still ahead, an expert on Iraq on will join us to discuss Saddam's place in Iraqi history and culture.

GRIFFIN: And he says he saw Saddam's secret police murder his family. Now, 22 years after fleeing Iraq, one man's reaction to the former dictator's day in court. That is still to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER OF SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): Of course, I don't believe he'll receive a fair trial, because it will conducted by unrecognized party. The interim government is not recognized, internationally, nor in the Arab world. It has not been recognized by anyone. So, by what right will the trail proceed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regarding for Saddam Hussein. Let Saddam Hussein see the new Iraq, that he will face a trail. In the former regime, that he didn't allow anyone. Just hang them. Hang them without any trial.

So, for the new Iraq, they allow him to see the trail, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the TV, and others. And he has a right to defend himself. So, let's Saddam Hussein see what had never been seen in his regime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Voices from across Iraq. They had a lot to say after Saddam Hussein's court appearance Thursday. Some showing support for the former dictator, while others, like this rally in the city of Kasamia (ph), calling for his execution.

Iraq scholar Amatzia Baram is in our Washington bureau, he's testified about Iraq and Saddam Hussein, written books, testified before Congress.

Good morning to you, Sir.

AMATZIA BARAM, IRAQI SCHOLAR: Good morning. GRIFFIN: We have seen headlines, which say, a defiant leader, trying to establish his authority. You say, more than anything else this appearance in court was embarrassing for Saddam's supporters.

BARAM: Yes, we saw yesterday some footage. But mostly around Tikrit, his hometown and his tribe and neighboring tribes, friendly tribes. But most of his supporters are somewhat embarrassed by him.

And the best example of that is that you don't have pro-Saddam demonstrations in much of the areas where he was supported before. And not even one of the groups that kidnapped, you know, hostages -- these horrible cases -- not one of these groups ever asked for Saddam's release.

GRIFFIN: You're reaction to his appearance, his physical appearance in court, in which he looks somewhat different then he did as president?

BARAM: I would say he looks leaner and meaner. He's very self- assured. He's very argumentative. He knows what he's saying. He's trying educate the judge. He has this predilection to educate the nation.

He was always giving TV shows, TV speeches, educating the people. He even explained to children how to brush their teeth. And he educated how to keep their hygiene. He was a great educator of the nation.

And he continues to educate the judge, telling him, you shouldn't do this and you should do that. This is the Iraqi way, that is how you should behave. It is very interesting, he's himself.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Baram, is he trying to educate or convince himself that he's still somewhat the leader of this country?

BARAM: That is an interesting question. I think that he believes he represents the Iraqi people because in two election campaigns -- or actually he was the only presidential candidate -- he won 98.7 percent in the first one and in the most recent one, 100 percent.

On that one, I think, over time, convinced himself that the people really want him. It is not delusion. It is -- I would call it self-hypnosis over a very specific issue. Because the only way he justified to himself that he is legitimate, as the president of Iraq -- when he was still president -- was to get some people to vote for him.

Somebody would play with the results, of course, and then his lieutenants would say, you got 100 percent. And I think that he sort of convinced himself that this was really a proper public opinion poll. And yes, now I believe he believes in it. But he is not delusional. This "delusion", quote/unquote, is very, very important for his own self-confidence.

GRIFFIN: And that confidence, his defense basically is, that law of Iraq, which I made, says you can't charge the president with anything?

BARAM: Correct. This is another issue. Saddam has a Ph.D. in law -- he really doesn't -- but officially speaking. And he enacted laws that in order to feel that he was -- that he himself was acting within the law, that Iraq was a law-abiding state. It was a very important issue for his own self-image again, and the regime's self- image.

Often -- not often -- in certain cases, they enacted secret laws. Laws that nobody knew what they said. And when they were executing people, they were executing them according to that secret law, these people would never know what that law said.

So, it was mainly for their own self-image that we are acting within the law. And now, he's saying, actually there is a law, you cannot charge a president for doing something -- for which you disagree -- as part of his duty as president. Well, that's very convenient, but I think this is Saddam. This is really Saddam. Very legalistic, and he needed it for his own self-confidence and self- assurance.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Baram, we thank you for joining us this morning, very insightful, Sir. Thank you.

BARAM: Thank you, very much.

GRIFFIN: Betty.

NGUYEN: Fascinating, in fact.

Well, Saddam Hussein in court, realizing his fate. We will have much more of that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back to CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin. This hour, examining Saddam Hussein's appearance in court on Thursday. But first, a look at some of the headlines from across America on this morning.

Attorneys in Washington filing petitions to get nine Guantanamo prisoners their day in court. The Supreme Court ruling Monday that those held as terror suspects are enemy combatants in military custody, do have the right to challenge their detentions.

On the road for the holiday, Senator John Kerry making a July Fourth weekend bus tour through parts of the Midwest. He is making stops in Wisconsin and Iowa. He was in Minnesota yesterday.

The trip comes as Democratic sources tell CNN, Kerry may announce his choice for a running mate as early as this coming week.

Vice President Dick Cheney is taking a ride as well. His bus traveling through Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

A fugitive sex offender is being held now without bond in Arlington County, Virginia, after he was captured in Guatemala. Police launched a manhunt for the suspect on Monday after he failed to appear in a hearing in Virginia. He is accused of molesting a 17- year-old boy. He's already been convicted on sex offense charges in the state of Maryland.

And in Alaska, it is hot and dry and windy, fanning these flames of an incredible wildfire. Firefighting planes have been grounded because of the dense smoke. Hundreds of people forced from their homes. This fire is 30 miles northeast of Fairbanks. It has tripled in recent days, now at 215,000 acres.

NGUYEN: Back to our special coverage. Those who survived Saddam Hussein's regime have waited a long time to see the former leader in court, including one man who was victimized by the secret police. Still to come, his reaction to the dictator's day in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Saddam Hussein's court appearance Thursday can be summed up in just one word, "defiant". As the session went on Saddam became more and more intent on setting the record straight, as he sees it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HUSSEIN (through translator): But you levied charges as -- in my capacity as the president of the republic. The talk about Halabja, I used to hear about that on the radio. Attacking Halabja and the regime of Saddam Hussein.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is only the legal the matters and you have the right to not an answer until the lawyer is present. This is for the previous review.

HUSSEIN: If you want to review, repeat it in the presence of the lawyers. And I don't sign then, yes. But if you want me to sign and then the lawyers come, then no. You have to hear me out.

Then -- and the occupation of Kuwait, the charge number seven, unfortunately, it is unfortunately that this is coming out of an Iraqi, but I know -- the law is there. Law, to charge Saddam Hussein, because Kuwait has said that Iraqis -- because the Iraqi women will come to the street for 10 dinars, and I defended the honor of the Iraqis.

Those animals, don't use foul language and attack. This is a legal session, yes, I bear responsibilities for everything. Anything outside of obscenity or outside the norms of the a legal session is not acceptable. Then forgive me, allow me, the seventh charge was against Saddam Hussein, as a president of the republic and the commander-in-chief of the army and the army went to Kuwait. OK?

Then in the former capacity, then is it permissible to charge an official title and the person is to be dealt with in violation with the guarantees that are afforded by the constitution. This is the law that you are using to use against me now. This is crux of the matter, Mr. Judge. Charges are levied because actions were taken in a system whose president was Saddam Hussein, but without guarantees, presidential guarantees. This is from the legal standpoint.

Well, answer to those charges. This is investigation, answer. You tell us formally, this is only for the minutes. If you read the minutes, we say that we postpone the investigation. Then, please, allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present. That is -- that is fine, but this is the ...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The next court date has not yet been set and Saddam Hussein, for now, remains in the physical custody of the U.S. military. But without doubt, one of the most fascinating chapters of Iraqi history is now unfolding before all of us.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: For many of those who suffered under Saddam Hussein seeing him called to account for his crimes was something they had only imagined, never thought they actually see in person. For one victim the experience was almost too much. Harry Smith of ITV has that report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, look! Oh, Saddam.

HARRY SMITH, ITV CORRESPONDENT (voice over): He was tortured by Saddam's secret police. More than 70 members of his family were slaughtered. As he watched his tormentor face justice, Sahib Alhakim could not hide the hatred.

SAHIB ALHAKIM, FORMER IRAQI PRISONER: Ah! Saddam, criminal. Ah! You should die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice should be done.

ALHAKIM: You don't deserve life.

SMITH: After the anger, the years of pain came flooding back.

ALHAKIM: I remember the people who have been buried in mass graves. I attend the excavation of many mass graves. I have seen the bodies without heads. And I know that Uday, the son of this dictator, have beheaded a lot of women because they are not loyal to the regime.

So, it came to my mind, when I saw these bodies have been buried, who are innocent because they open their mouth against the regime.

SMITH: Dr. Alhakim fled Iraq 22 years ago and as long as Saddam was in power he lived constantly under the threat of his assassins. His family have paid a terrible price for opposing the dictator.

ALHAKIM: All these are members of my family, Alhakim, have been arrested and killed by Saddam regime. This is my brother, Mr. Jabar Alhakim, who had been killed by Saddam. They used radium (ph) poisoning.

This is my cousin, Al Falamad Barkar (ph) Alhakim. He has been killed by explosion in Holy City Najaf.

SMITH: For Sahib Alhakim, this has been a day of extraordinary mixed emotions. From the pain of the past to the hope of seeing justice of the future.

Harry Smith, ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And this concludes our special coverage of "Saddam Hussein in Court".

GRIFFIN: The next hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING begins right now.

NGUYEN: Welcome, from the CNN Center in Atlanta. This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

Good morning to you. I'm Betty Nguyen.

GRIFFIN: And I'm Drew Griffin. We thank you for joining us on this holiday weekend.

Coming up this hour, anger at the workplace turns deadly. A man at a meat packing plant in Kansas City opens fire on his coworkers during a dinner break. We'll go live to the ConAgra plant for details on this.

Also ahead, firefighters in Alaska hoping cooler weather will help them as they are battling a fire that has scorched thousands of acres near Fairbanks.

And later, if you bought a lottery ticket in Massachusetts, check the number, please. Somewhere out there, in Massachusetts is one piece of paper that is worth mega-millions.

All that coming up this hour, but first we check this morning's headlines.

NGUYEN: Nine hundred million miles from Earth, NASA scientists have found something that looks likes smog. NASA experts say the images from the Cassini spacecraft show the surface of Saturn's moon, Titan

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