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CNN Saturday Morning News

Both Candidates Strayed from Facts in Debate; Legal Briefs: Scott Peterson

Aired October 09, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: And from the CNN Center, SATURDAY MORNING. It's October 9, 8 a.m. in Miami, 7 a.m. in Houston. Good morning, everybody. I'm Drew Griffin.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erica Hill. Thanks for joining us this morning.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in the Persian Gulf today, meeting with fellow defense chiefs from 18 nations aboard a U.S. aircraft carrier. Rumsfeld is seeking more troops from those nations to support the Iraq elections, which are scheduled nor January.

In Iraq, the interim government said cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has struck a deal with the Iraqi government. A spokesman tells CNN al- Sadr's Mehdi Army will hand over its weapons on Monday. After that, Iraqi forces would enter the Sadr City area of Baghdad and take control of it from al-Sadr loyalists.

Officials now say British hostage Kenneth Bigley escaped briefly from his captors in Iraq shortly before he was beheaded. Abu Dhabi TV shows a video -- showed a video of Bigley's execution. The British foreign hostage had made pleas to Prime Minister Tony Blair to save his life. Britons are mourning his death.

It is day 10 of the Israeli crackdown in Gaza. Three more Palestinians have been killed. An Israeli helicopter fired a missile into a Palestinian refugee camp in northern Gaza. Earlier Israeli forces fired a rocket into a refugee camp in southern Gaza. Israel says it is seeking out insurgents. The offensive has killed about 90 Palestinians.

GRIFFIN: Ahead this hour, round two over. Political analyst Ron Brownstein in a few minutes, fact checking the second presidential debate.

The prosecution rested in Scott Peterson's defense trial. Now it's the defense's turn, and our "Legal Briefs" are coming up.

And on HOUSE CALL, the flu vaccine shortage. We're going to talk to a top medical official about how you can stay healthy.

HILL: Afghanistan's first-ever direct presidential election has been marred by allegations of flaws. At least 14 of the 15 opposition candidates say the vote was rigged to favor incumbent president Hamid Karzai. They're demanding a new vote.

One source of their complaint is ink. It was meant to keep Afghans from voting more than once and was supposed to be indelible. But officials discovered that at some polling places the ink actually washed off pretty easily. Getting new ink supplies delayed balloting for several hours.

Despite threats of violence by the Taliban, however, there were no polls closed with reports of bloodshed. No reports of bloodshed there. And we're going to bring you a live report from CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. She'll join us from Kabul in our next half hour.

GRIFFIN: We know a lot of you getting up this early in the morning may have missed the debates. We're going to review it here. First impressions of the second presidential debate make it a draw.

Both men remained civil, even while turning up the rhetorical heat. And here's one barbed exchange on John Kerry's political credentials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For awhile, he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom until the Democrat primary came along. And Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate began to gain on him. And he changed positions.

I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So he's really turned his campaign into a weapons of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Managing the national economy a big part, of course, of being president, both men sparing no words in describing the other as incompetent on that score. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen, and most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut. We wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. You know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America.

BUSH: When he talks about being physically conservative, he's not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate he voted to break the spending -- the caps, the spending caps over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative all of a sudden? It's just not credible. You cannot believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And abortion remains an important political litmus test for many voters. So it's not surprising the issue did come up last night. And here's a bit of what they had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy, religion has been a huge part of my life, helped lead me through a war, leads me today. But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, protestant, whatever. I can't do that.

BUSH: This is an issue that divides America, but certainly reasonable people can agree on how to reduce abortions in America. I signed the partial birth -- the ban on partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. It's one way to help reduce abortions. My opponent voted against the ban. I think there ought to it be parental notification laws. He's against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It generally takes a couple of days for the political ducks to settle a debate and then following that a consensus gradually emerges about who did the better job.

But we can't resist some instant snapshots of people who sat through last night's debate. It turns out they're giving a slight edge to John Kerry. The margin of error in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, though, make it a statistical tie.

An ABC News poll tells almost the same story, if you take a look there, the numbers giving Kerry a narrow win. But again, that margin of error makes it a draw.

GRIFFIN: Candidates typically surround lots of figures and statements; however, voters are advised not to take everything they say at face value. Do you believe that?

CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein has done some fact checking, and he's up early this morning in Washington with that.

Good morning, Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

GRIFFIN: Who did the better job of keeping to the facts?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, they both strayed. I don't think there were any real obvious howlers, but as always, the candidates tried to put everything in the best possible light.

For example, John Kerry repeatedly said that President Bush has lost 1.6 million jobs over his term and would be the first president since Herbert Hoover to suffer a net loss of jobs for a full presidential term.

In fact, Bush is on track to be the first president since Hoover to have a net loss of jobs. But the 1.6 million is only private sector jobs. The actual figure, including everything, government creating more jobs in the last four years, is probably closer to 600,000.

The president had his share. In particular, I thought, as he has done on the campaign trail, he really stretches it when he says that the Kerry plan on health care amounts to a government takeover of the healthcare system.

There's nothing in the Kerry plan that directly does that. It aims to increase the number of -- reduce the number of uninsured by expanding existing programs, Medicaid and the children's health insurance program that provide care for lower working class and lower income families, and it tries to reinforce the existing employer- provided care through a new program to reduce premiums.

It's hard to see what is in there to justify the president's characterization of it.

GRIFFIN: Facts aside, it seemed like the president was much more comfortable last night. Was it the format, or did he -- did his advisers really prepare him for this?

GRIFFIN: I think both. I think the president is comfortable in informal presentation. I also think he was clearly better prepared.

I thought it was a tale of two debates. I thought that the combination of a very good, very tough questions, better than we've seen in many town hall debates, and John Kerry's rather relentless prosecutorial brief kept the president on the defensive for the first half of the debate.

But in the second half of the debate, when we turned to domestic policy, supposedly the area of Democratic strength, I thought President Bush grew increasingly strong as the evening went on.

When they got to social issues, he was comfortable delivering a firm, unequivocal socially conservative message while John Kerry got kind of fuzzy and didn't really lay out exactly where he stands. I don't think he ever said in his answer on abortion, for instance, that he believes it should remain legal and that he was essentially pro- choice. So I thought it was really an evening with a sharp delineation in the middle. I give the first half to Kerry but Bush finished very strong.

GRIFFIN: And speaking of how forceful the president or how comfortable he was, he was comfortable enough even to interrupt the -- the questioner, Charles Gibson.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Let's -- let's take a look at that clip, because a lot of people may have not have seen the debate last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES GIBSON, MODERATOR: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...

KERRY: Let me just...

BUSH: I've got to answer this.

GIBSON: Exactly. And with reservists being held on duty...

BUSH: Let me answer what he just said about...

GIBSON: Well, I wanted to get to the issue of...

BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Good move?

BROWNSTEIN: Obviously, after the first debate he's careful about seeming angry or scowling or anything like that. At the very beginning of this debate, he seemed to be -- to me to be visibly struggling to hold his emotions in check.

But I do think that as it went on, he found a tone that was forceful and assertive without seeming irritated or peevish.

On the other hand, I thought John Kerry was also once again very effective through most of the debate. He had a lot of -- he had a strong command of facts and figures. He had a very fluid detailed critique earlier in the debate. But as I said, as it went on, I thought he reverted to some of the windy answers that we see sometimes on the campaign trail.

And I think we saw, Drew, something that we saw at the Democratic convention. Surprisingly, the Democratic critique of President Bush's foreign policy record is sharper, more crystallized and more firmly articulated than their critique of him on domestic issues.

And I don't think that came across very well, and it is a challenge for John Kerry, leading into that last debate, where they are hoping that issues like healthcare and the economy, where voters naturally prefer Democrats historically, will benefit him.

GRIFFIN: One more to go, Ron. We'll see what happens. Thanks for joining us this morning. And you can always read about Ron and read his work in the "Los Angeles Times." Thanks, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

HILL: One more to go. But we're still not done with this one yet. Our e-mail question this morning for you: who won last night's debate in your opinion, and why? E-mail your responses at WAM@CNN.com. We're going to read your replies throughout the program this morning.

And while you're online, head on over to our web site to cast your vote for a debate winner. You can do that at CNN.com. Just look under "Quick Vote."

GRIFFIN: The prosecution rests in the Scott Peterson case, but did it do enough to convince jurors that that man is guilty of murder? The week's legal highlights are ahead.

HILL: And just a bit later on HOUSE CALL, what the government is doing to get more influenza vaccine and what you need to do to stay flu-free this winter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: The glare of the spotlight, the pressure to perform, all the expectations. Living in the White House as a presidential pet. Questions we all have. Mo Rocca joins us live next hour to tell us what it's really like.

GRIFFIN: We're getting serious. Good morning, Little Rock, Arkansas. The first weekend of the Arkansas State Fair. Did you known that?

HILL: How about that?

GRIFFIN: Monster trucks, open mic karaoke and the crowning of the rodeo queen. Will that rodeo queen see fair skies? Rob Marciano is going to tell her in our weekend forecast. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back. Let's get right to the weather.

HILL: Rob Marciano standing by with a look at the weather for us here in -- around the country, Arkansas.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: What's going on in Arkansas?

HILL: Arkansas State Fair. First weekend, Rob. Come on!

MARCIANO: I should know that. I think we have to -- did we show live -- I'm sorry. Just changed the battery in my microphone.

GRIFFIN: Here's how we pitched it.

MARCIANO: OK.

GRIFFIN: The queen of the rodeo is going to be crowned today. Will it be fair skies for the queen? OK?

MARCIANO: Well, right now it's not fair.

HILL: Later on, perhaps?

MARCIANO: At the fair.

GRIFFIN: This is the forecast portion of our show! You can see what is there now.

HILL: He was changing the batteries, remember, Drew?

GRIFFIN: I'm thinking 3 p.m., time to put the crown on.

HILL: Do you need a little coffee there, buddy?

MARCIANO: No, I'm doing all right. Maybe a little too much at this point.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HILL: Could be a wet reign for the rodeo queen.

MARCIANO: Very nice.

HILL: I had my coffee.

GRIFFIN: You certainly have.

HILL: Yes, too much.

MARCIANO: See you guys later.

GRIFFIN: All right. Thanks a lot.

It is 8:16 here in the east, 5:16 out in west. Time for a check of our top stories.

Registered voters who watched last night's presidential debate are evenly divided over who did a better job. A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll found Senator John Kerry's narrow edge within the margin of error. President Bush made up significant ground from his first debate performance.

Prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case have released hundreds more pages of formerly sealed documents. They include police notes that say the accuser told her mother she was raped. The criminal sexual assault charge against Bryant was dropped last month. The woman is pursuing a civil case. And Lori Hacking will be buried today. The Utah woman's remains were discovered last week in a landfill. Hacking's husband is charged with her murder.

HILL: The Peterson prosecution wraps; a Colorado case calls organ donation into question; and a "New York Times" journalist faces jail for refusing to reveal her sources. All these stories coming up next in our "Legal Briefs."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: In this week's legal briefs, a dispute over a leak to the media goes to federal court in testimony. And Scott Peterson's murder trial switches to defense attorneys.

We'll talk those issues to our legal experts. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us live from Houston this morning, and civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is in our Miami bureau.

Good morning, ladies. We're going to get right to it.

Lida, we'll start with you. Prosecution wraps up, almost four months, more than 170 witnesses. How'd the prosecution do? What are we going to see from Geragos?

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL LIBERTIES ATTORNEY: Not with a bang but a whimper. That was what the end of this prosecution's saga that lasted four months was all about.

My goodness. What a boring case. What a boring prosecution. And, frankly, has a terrible display of putting on a case.

The prosecution basically helped the defense make their case. The prosecution allowed Geragos to travel all over them and prove they have not one strand of evidence to prove their case. Not one fiber. Not one hair. Not one spot of blood.

All that they managed to do was put on some salacious tapes of Scott Peterson, like a dummy, talking to his mistress. So basically Geragos should just do one week, in and out, and he's going to win.

HILL: Nelda, you're not exactly in line with that opinion, are you?

NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I'm not exactly in line with that.

HILL: What a surprise.

BLAIR: Lida, that's spoken like a true defense lawyer. I've got to tell you.

But you know what? That is not the way the case was laid out. This is not TV, Lida. Don't forget. This case is real life.

This prosecution did exactly what they needed to do: laid out their case methodically, carefully, 174 witnesses, 19 weeks of testimony. They've got a great case against Scott Peterson.

It's circumstantial, yes. There's no smoking gun, no eyewitness, no confession, but that doesn't matter. In this country, a circumstantial case is just as good once it's proven.

And they've proven by what Scott Peterson said, what Scott Peterson did, that Scott Peterson is guilty. And all Geragos had is his usual SODI defense, some other dude did it. And it isn't going fly.

HILL: Well, we'll see that defense coming up and I'm sure we'll be talking about it with you ladies in the weeks ahead.

Meantime, though, let's move on to this issue with "New York Times" journalist Judith Miller, now being forced to -- to reveal her sources or spend 18 months in jail. We'll let you lead off on this one, Nelda.

BLAIR: You know, this is the same case that we had here in Houston not too -- a few years ago. Vanessa Leggett, who would not give up information to help solve a murder case.

The First Amendment is not absolute. These journalists need to quit whining about their First Amendment rights when they really are needed, their information is needed to help solve really important cases.

We're talking about leaks of CIA operatives' names. We're talking about that in the time of terrorism in our country. This is very important for national security. This lady needs to give it up.

HILL: Lida, you say, though -- well, you agree reporters don't have an absolute First Amendment protection. You also brought up earlier the case of, hey, this is really about what happened with a government leak?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this is exactly right. You know what this case should be about what is should be about is investigating why it is the government wanted to leak the name of a CIA agent in order to punish her husband for stepping out of line and questioning the government.

What this case has become, instead, is a witch-hunt of the press. Why? The government has turned the tables and basically is investigating the media's sources when even in a case -- Judith Miller never even wrote a story. And this judge ordered her to reveal her sources saying that, "Well, gee, you know what? You considered writing a story." It's absolutely outrageous.

This is actually a very serious matter that we need to be concerned about, because if this case stands, it will be much harder to ferret out corruption and government ineptitude and worse. It will be much harder to figure out whether or not the government is behaving properly, because people will be afraid to speak to the media.

BLAIR: Lida, not true. HILL: It's -- we're all going to have our eyes on this one, too, not going away any time soon.

BLAIR: Right.

HILL: So we'll have to check in with you guys. Hopefully, next week we can talk about that one.

We appreciate you both joining us. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair and civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, always a pleasure to you have here.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thanks.

BLAIR: Thank you.

GRIFFIN: We are still soliciting your e-mails. The presidential debate. Did you watch? And what do you think? E-mail us at WAM@CNN.com. We have got a couple more in.

HILL: We do. We're hearing from Chris in Chicago who tells us, "This second Bush/Kerry debate was pretty good. Much more spirited and impassioned. I think Kerry won on the issues but Bush managed to improve on his delivery." His advice, keep up the good work.

GRIFFIN: And you can keep writing to us at WAM@CNN.com. You can also take part in our flash poll, which had a bunch of Kerry people up early this morning watching this, because it was skewed in Mr. Kerry's favor. The actual poll results that we have show it was pretty darn near even.

All right, coming up next, the two big stories ahead on this week's HOUSE CALL. First a look at how we've ended up with another shortage of flu vaccine and what you need to do to stay healthy this flu season.

Plus, a week after Vioxx was pulled off the shelves, we're going to find out how safe the alternatives are. That's next on HOUSE CALL, coming up after a check of our headlines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Here's the headlines.

The U.S. presidential candidates back on the campaign trail today after last night's town hall debate in St. Louis, Missouri. Flash polls show George Bush and John Kerry did about equally well among those who watched. Kerry slightly ahead there.

Improving security on Iraq on the agenda today for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He's aboard an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. There he's huddling with defense chiefs of 18 countries, hoping to enlist more support for international troops in Iraq.

In Afghanistan, the polls are closed in that country's first direct presidential election. There were no reports of violence, but nearly all the opposition candidates have alleged the polling was rife with fraud. We'll get an update from Kabul at the top of the hour from Afghanistan.

Now weekend HOUSE CALL with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 9, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: And from the CNN Center, SATURDAY MORNING. It's October 9, 8 a.m. in Miami, 7 a.m. in Houston. Good morning, everybody. I'm Drew Griffin.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erica Hill. Thanks for joining us this morning.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in the Persian Gulf today, meeting with fellow defense chiefs from 18 nations aboard a U.S. aircraft carrier. Rumsfeld is seeking more troops from those nations to support the Iraq elections, which are scheduled nor January.

In Iraq, the interim government said cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has struck a deal with the Iraqi government. A spokesman tells CNN al- Sadr's Mehdi Army will hand over its weapons on Monday. After that, Iraqi forces would enter the Sadr City area of Baghdad and take control of it from al-Sadr loyalists.

Officials now say British hostage Kenneth Bigley escaped briefly from his captors in Iraq shortly before he was beheaded. Abu Dhabi TV shows a video -- showed a video of Bigley's execution. The British foreign hostage had made pleas to Prime Minister Tony Blair to save his life. Britons are mourning his death.

It is day 10 of the Israeli crackdown in Gaza. Three more Palestinians have been killed. An Israeli helicopter fired a missile into a Palestinian refugee camp in northern Gaza. Earlier Israeli forces fired a rocket into a refugee camp in southern Gaza. Israel says it is seeking out insurgents. The offensive has killed about 90 Palestinians.

GRIFFIN: Ahead this hour, round two over. Political analyst Ron Brownstein in a few minutes, fact checking the second presidential debate.

The prosecution rested in Scott Peterson's defense trial. Now it's the defense's turn, and our "Legal Briefs" are coming up.

And on HOUSE CALL, the flu vaccine shortage. We're going to talk to a top medical official about how you can stay healthy.

HILL: Afghanistan's first-ever direct presidential election has been marred by allegations of flaws. At least 14 of the 15 opposition candidates say the vote was rigged to favor incumbent president Hamid Karzai. They're demanding a new vote.

One source of their complaint is ink. It was meant to keep Afghans from voting more than once and was supposed to be indelible. But officials discovered that at some polling places the ink actually washed off pretty easily. Getting new ink supplies delayed balloting for several hours.

Despite threats of violence by the Taliban, however, there were no polls closed with reports of bloodshed. No reports of bloodshed there. And we're going to bring you a live report from CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. She'll join us from Kabul in our next half hour.

GRIFFIN: We know a lot of you getting up this early in the morning may have missed the debates. We're going to review it here. First impressions of the second presidential debate make it a draw.

Both men remained civil, even while turning up the rhetorical heat. And here's one barbed exchange on John Kerry's political credentials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For awhile, he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom until the Democrat primary came along. And Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate began to gain on him. And he changed positions.

I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So he's really turned his campaign into a weapons of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Managing the national economy a big part, of course, of being president, both men sparing no words in describing the other as incompetent on that score. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen, and most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut. We wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. You know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America.

BUSH: When he talks about being physically conservative, he's not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate he voted to break the spending -- the caps, the spending caps over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative all of a sudden? It's just not credible. You cannot believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And abortion remains an important political litmus test for many voters. So it's not surprising the issue did come up last night. And here's a bit of what they had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy, religion has been a huge part of my life, helped lead me through a war, leads me today. But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, protestant, whatever. I can't do that.

BUSH: This is an issue that divides America, but certainly reasonable people can agree on how to reduce abortions in America. I signed the partial birth -- the ban on partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. It's one way to help reduce abortions. My opponent voted against the ban. I think there ought to it be parental notification laws. He's against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It generally takes a couple of days for the political ducks to settle a debate and then following that a consensus gradually emerges about who did the better job.

But we can't resist some instant snapshots of people who sat through last night's debate. It turns out they're giving a slight edge to John Kerry. The margin of error in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, though, make it a statistical tie.

An ABC News poll tells almost the same story, if you take a look there, the numbers giving Kerry a narrow win. But again, that margin of error makes it a draw.

GRIFFIN: Candidates typically surround lots of figures and statements; however, voters are advised not to take everything they say at face value. Do you believe that?

CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein has done some fact checking, and he's up early this morning in Washington with that.

Good morning, Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

GRIFFIN: Who did the better job of keeping to the facts?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, they both strayed. I don't think there were any real obvious howlers, but as always, the candidates tried to put everything in the best possible light.

For example, John Kerry repeatedly said that President Bush has lost 1.6 million jobs over his term and would be the first president since Herbert Hoover to suffer a net loss of jobs for a full presidential term.

In fact, Bush is on track to be the first president since Hoover to have a net loss of jobs. But the 1.6 million is only private sector jobs. The actual figure, including everything, government creating more jobs in the last four years, is probably closer to 600,000.

The president had his share. In particular, I thought, as he has done on the campaign trail, he really stretches it when he says that the Kerry plan on health care amounts to a government takeover of the healthcare system.

There's nothing in the Kerry plan that directly does that. It aims to increase the number of -- reduce the number of uninsured by expanding existing programs, Medicaid and the children's health insurance program that provide care for lower working class and lower income families, and it tries to reinforce the existing employer- provided care through a new program to reduce premiums.

It's hard to see what is in there to justify the president's characterization of it.

GRIFFIN: Facts aside, it seemed like the president was much more comfortable last night. Was it the format, or did he -- did his advisers really prepare him for this?

GRIFFIN: I think both. I think the president is comfortable in informal presentation. I also think he was clearly better prepared.

I thought it was a tale of two debates. I thought that the combination of a very good, very tough questions, better than we've seen in many town hall debates, and John Kerry's rather relentless prosecutorial brief kept the president on the defensive for the first half of the debate.

But in the second half of the debate, when we turned to domestic policy, supposedly the area of Democratic strength, I thought President Bush grew increasingly strong as the evening went on.

When they got to social issues, he was comfortable delivering a firm, unequivocal socially conservative message while John Kerry got kind of fuzzy and didn't really lay out exactly where he stands. I don't think he ever said in his answer on abortion, for instance, that he believes it should remain legal and that he was essentially pro- choice. So I thought it was really an evening with a sharp delineation in the middle. I give the first half to Kerry but Bush finished very strong.

GRIFFIN: And speaking of how forceful the president or how comfortable he was, he was comfortable enough even to interrupt the -- the questioner, Charles Gibson.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Let's -- let's take a look at that clip, because a lot of people may have not have seen the debate last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES GIBSON, MODERATOR: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...

KERRY: Let me just...

BUSH: I've got to answer this.

GIBSON: Exactly. And with reservists being held on duty...

BUSH: Let me answer what he just said about...

GIBSON: Well, I wanted to get to the issue of...

BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Good move?

BROWNSTEIN: Obviously, after the first debate he's careful about seeming angry or scowling or anything like that. At the very beginning of this debate, he seemed to be -- to me to be visibly struggling to hold his emotions in check.

But I do think that as it went on, he found a tone that was forceful and assertive without seeming irritated or peevish.

On the other hand, I thought John Kerry was also once again very effective through most of the debate. He had a lot of -- he had a strong command of facts and figures. He had a very fluid detailed critique earlier in the debate. But as I said, as it went on, I thought he reverted to some of the windy answers that we see sometimes on the campaign trail.

And I think we saw, Drew, something that we saw at the Democratic convention. Surprisingly, the Democratic critique of President Bush's foreign policy record is sharper, more crystallized and more firmly articulated than their critique of him on domestic issues.

And I don't think that came across very well, and it is a challenge for John Kerry, leading into that last debate, where they are hoping that issues like healthcare and the economy, where voters naturally prefer Democrats historically, will benefit him.

GRIFFIN: One more to go, Ron. We'll see what happens. Thanks for joining us this morning. And you can always read about Ron and read his work in the "Los Angeles Times." Thanks, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

HILL: One more to go. But we're still not done with this one yet. Our e-mail question this morning for you: who won last night's debate in your opinion, and why? E-mail your responses at WAM@CNN.com. We're going to read your replies throughout the program this morning.

And while you're online, head on over to our web site to cast your vote for a debate winner. You can do that at CNN.com. Just look under "Quick Vote."

GRIFFIN: The prosecution rests in the Scott Peterson case, but did it do enough to convince jurors that that man is guilty of murder? The week's legal highlights are ahead.

HILL: And just a bit later on HOUSE CALL, what the government is doing to get more influenza vaccine and what you need to do to stay flu-free this winter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: The glare of the spotlight, the pressure to perform, all the expectations. Living in the White House as a presidential pet. Questions we all have. Mo Rocca joins us live next hour to tell us what it's really like.

GRIFFIN: We're getting serious. Good morning, Little Rock, Arkansas. The first weekend of the Arkansas State Fair. Did you known that?

HILL: How about that?

GRIFFIN: Monster trucks, open mic karaoke and the crowning of the rodeo queen. Will that rodeo queen see fair skies? Rob Marciano is going to tell her in our weekend forecast. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back. Let's get right to the weather.

HILL: Rob Marciano standing by with a look at the weather for us here in -- around the country, Arkansas.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: What's going on in Arkansas?

HILL: Arkansas State Fair. First weekend, Rob. Come on!

MARCIANO: I should know that. I think we have to -- did we show live -- I'm sorry. Just changed the battery in my microphone.

GRIFFIN: Here's how we pitched it.

MARCIANO: OK.

GRIFFIN: The queen of the rodeo is going to be crowned today. Will it be fair skies for the queen? OK?

MARCIANO: Well, right now it's not fair.

HILL: Later on, perhaps?

MARCIANO: At the fair.

GRIFFIN: This is the forecast portion of our show! You can see what is there now.

HILL: He was changing the batteries, remember, Drew?

GRIFFIN: I'm thinking 3 p.m., time to put the crown on.

HILL: Do you need a little coffee there, buddy?

MARCIANO: No, I'm doing all right. Maybe a little too much at this point.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HILL: Could be a wet reign for the rodeo queen.

MARCIANO: Very nice.

HILL: I had my coffee.

GRIFFIN: You certainly have.

HILL: Yes, too much.

MARCIANO: See you guys later.

GRIFFIN: All right. Thanks a lot.

It is 8:16 here in the east, 5:16 out in west. Time for a check of our top stories.

Registered voters who watched last night's presidential debate are evenly divided over who did a better job. A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll found Senator John Kerry's narrow edge within the margin of error. President Bush made up significant ground from his first debate performance.

Prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case have released hundreds more pages of formerly sealed documents. They include police notes that say the accuser told her mother she was raped. The criminal sexual assault charge against Bryant was dropped last month. The woman is pursuing a civil case. And Lori Hacking will be buried today. The Utah woman's remains were discovered last week in a landfill. Hacking's husband is charged with her murder.

HILL: The Peterson prosecution wraps; a Colorado case calls organ donation into question; and a "New York Times" journalist faces jail for refusing to reveal her sources. All these stories coming up next in our "Legal Briefs."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: In this week's legal briefs, a dispute over a leak to the media goes to federal court in testimony. And Scott Peterson's murder trial switches to defense attorneys.

We'll talk those issues to our legal experts. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us live from Houston this morning, and civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is in our Miami bureau.

Good morning, ladies. We're going to get right to it.

Lida, we'll start with you. Prosecution wraps up, almost four months, more than 170 witnesses. How'd the prosecution do? What are we going to see from Geragos?

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, CIVIL LIBERTIES ATTORNEY: Not with a bang but a whimper. That was what the end of this prosecution's saga that lasted four months was all about.

My goodness. What a boring case. What a boring prosecution. And, frankly, has a terrible display of putting on a case.

The prosecution basically helped the defense make their case. The prosecution allowed Geragos to travel all over them and prove they have not one strand of evidence to prove their case. Not one fiber. Not one hair. Not one spot of blood.

All that they managed to do was put on some salacious tapes of Scott Peterson, like a dummy, talking to his mistress. So basically Geragos should just do one week, in and out, and he's going to win.

HILL: Nelda, you're not exactly in line with that opinion, are you?

NELDA BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I'm not exactly in line with that.

HILL: What a surprise.

BLAIR: Lida, that's spoken like a true defense lawyer. I've got to tell you.

But you know what? That is not the way the case was laid out. This is not TV, Lida. Don't forget. This case is real life.

This prosecution did exactly what they needed to do: laid out their case methodically, carefully, 174 witnesses, 19 weeks of testimony. They've got a great case against Scott Peterson.

It's circumstantial, yes. There's no smoking gun, no eyewitness, no confession, but that doesn't matter. In this country, a circumstantial case is just as good once it's proven.

And they've proven by what Scott Peterson said, what Scott Peterson did, that Scott Peterson is guilty. And all Geragos had is his usual SODI defense, some other dude did it. And it isn't going fly.

HILL: Well, we'll see that defense coming up and I'm sure we'll be talking about it with you ladies in the weeks ahead.

Meantime, though, let's move on to this issue with "New York Times" journalist Judith Miller, now being forced to -- to reveal her sources or spend 18 months in jail. We'll let you lead off on this one, Nelda.

BLAIR: You know, this is the same case that we had here in Houston not too -- a few years ago. Vanessa Leggett, who would not give up information to help solve a murder case.

The First Amendment is not absolute. These journalists need to quit whining about their First Amendment rights when they really are needed, their information is needed to help solve really important cases.

We're talking about leaks of CIA operatives' names. We're talking about that in the time of terrorism in our country. This is very important for national security. This lady needs to give it up.

HILL: Lida, you say, though -- well, you agree reporters don't have an absolute First Amendment protection. You also brought up earlier the case of, hey, this is really about what happened with a government leak?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, this is exactly right. You know what this case should be about what is should be about is investigating why it is the government wanted to leak the name of a CIA agent in order to punish her husband for stepping out of line and questioning the government.

What this case has become, instead, is a witch-hunt of the press. Why? The government has turned the tables and basically is investigating the media's sources when even in a case -- Judith Miller never even wrote a story. And this judge ordered her to reveal her sources saying that, "Well, gee, you know what? You considered writing a story." It's absolutely outrageous.

This is actually a very serious matter that we need to be concerned about, because if this case stands, it will be much harder to ferret out corruption and government ineptitude and worse. It will be much harder to figure out whether or not the government is behaving properly, because people will be afraid to speak to the media.

BLAIR: Lida, not true. HILL: It's -- we're all going to have our eyes on this one, too, not going away any time soon.

BLAIR: Right.

HILL: So we'll have to check in with you guys. Hopefully, next week we can talk about that one.

We appreciate you both joining us. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair and civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, always a pleasure to you have here.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thanks.

BLAIR: Thank you.

GRIFFIN: We are still soliciting your e-mails. The presidential debate. Did you watch? And what do you think? E-mail us at WAM@CNN.com. We have got a couple more in.

HILL: We do. We're hearing from Chris in Chicago who tells us, "This second Bush/Kerry debate was pretty good. Much more spirited and impassioned. I think Kerry won on the issues but Bush managed to improve on his delivery." His advice, keep up the good work.

GRIFFIN: And you can keep writing to us at WAM@CNN.com. You can also take part in our flash poll, which had a bunch of Kerry people up early this morning watching this, because it was skewed in Mr. Kerry's favor. The actual poll results that we have show it was pretty darn near even.

All right, coming up next, the two big stories ahead on this week's HOUSE CALL. First a look at how we've ended up with another shortage of flu vaccine and what you need to do to stay healthy this flu season.

Plus, a week after Vioxx was pulled off the shelves, we're going to find out how safe the alternatives are. That's next on HOUSE CALL, coming up after a check of our headlines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Here's the headlines.

The U.S. presidential candidates back on the campaign trail today after last night's town hall debate in St. Louis, Missouri. Flash polls show George Bush and John Kerry did about equally well among those who watched. Kerry slightly ahead there.

Improving security on Iraq on the agenda today for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He's aboard an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. There he's huddling with defense chiefs of 18 countries, hoping to enlist more support for international troops in Iraq.

In Afghanistan, the polls are closed in that country's first direct presidential election. There were no reports of violence, but nearly all the opposition candidates have alleged the polling was rife with fraud. We'll get an update from Kabul at the top of the hour from Afghanistan.

Now weekend HOUSE CALL with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

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