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CNN Saturday Morning News

Legal Briefs with Nelda Blair, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff

Aired December 11, 2004 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: I'm Tony Harris thanks for being with us.
"Now in the News": Bernard Kerik is walking away from the top job at the Homeland Security Department. Kerik withdrew his name for consideration after he discovered a nanny he hired had questionable immigration status. A live report is straight ahead.

Today, many will gather to remember the life of Margaret Hassan. A funeral mass for the aide worker is planned in the London today. She is the British/Iraqi hostage who is believed to have been killed by her captors in Iraq. She was kidnapped on October 19 in Baghdad. Her body has not been found.

And in Iraq, assassinated while driving to work. Two top officials in the Iraqi government are gunned down in southwest Baghdad. Officials say the victims were on their way to work at the Iraqi interior ministry when assailants sprayed their car with bullets.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: Also coming up this hour, you have seen them in James Bond movies. Iris scans, in "Golden Eye", or finger printing in "Gold Finger". Now, biometric technology that is so often dramatized in the movies is finding its way into every day life. How does it work? We'll have a special report.

And he's a veteran U.S. paratrooper who is now an Army deserter. Jeremy Hinzman is in Canada seeking refugee status and hoping to avoid court-martial and prison time right here in the U.S. We'll debate his case in this mornings "Legal Briefs".

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just good reflexes, I guess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Rapid reflexes and fast footwork saved one man's life. We'll tell you what happened after this out of control SUV skidded out of control right where a highway worker was standing.

HARRIS: Our top story this hour, a job opening and what you might call a want ad. President Bush is looking for yet another person to fill the job of Homeland Security secretary, after Bernard Kerik withdrew his name from consideration, to lead the department.

More on this story now from CNN's Elaine Quijano on the phone from Washington.

Good morning, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

The White House made the announcement late last night that Bernie Kerik was withdrawing his name for consideration for the Homeland Security post. The reason given by Kerik? The questionable immigration status of a nanny.

President Bush, in leaving the White House today, he was on his way to a physical and to visit wounded troops in at Bethesda Naval Medical Center, in suburban Washington, no comment.

But in a statement last night the White House said Kerik was withdrawing his name for personal reasons and the president respects his decision and wishes Kerik and his wife well.

Now, Kerik, of course is the former New York City police commissioner, whom the president nominated to head up the Homeland Security Department and replace outgoing Secretary Tom Ridge.

The initial reaction from New York Democrats was quite positive. Both Senators Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton issued statements at that time, applauding that choice. Saying they thought Kerik had leadership skills and firsthand experience necessary for the job.

But last night in a statement Kerik said that in the course getting together documents required for the Senate confirmation process he found information about that questionable immigration status of a housekeeper and nanny. And in his letter to the president Kerik said he was convinced that for personal reasons moving forward would not be in the best interest of the administration, the Department of Homeland Security, or the American people.

This, certainly a surprise, Tony, all day long yesterday, White House officials both on the record and off the record, said they were confident about the vetting process.

As you know there had been questions raised about Kerik's relationship with a TASER International, a stun gun company, for which he had stock options and Kerik sold and made millions of dollars from. But yesterday officials said they looked at that issue carefully. They had a high degree of confidence in the process and at this point all indications are that this came as a complete surprise, at least to the officials that talked to CNN about this -- Tony.

HARRIS: White House Correspondent Elaine Quijano, this morning.

Elaine, thank you.

Congressional investigators say efforts to secure the nation's ports and small private planes from terrorists are not good enough. The report by the Government Accountability (sic) Office, warns against focusing too much on commercial aviation. Investigators say the Transportation Security Administration also needs to send meaningful threat information to charter airlines and flight schools.

NGUYEN: One goal of the Homeland Security Department is to make sure the nation's borders are safe and secure. And one way outgoing Secretary Tom Ridge did that was by launching a novel system using biometric technology. So, what is it and how does it work? Here's CNN Technology Correspondent Daniel Sieberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From fingerprints to voice recognition....

(on camera): ...I am who I say I am.

(voice over): ... iris scans, to hand geometry, biometric measurements are used to gain access to offices, to get drivers' licenses, even to pay for groceries. What about homeland security?

PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIV. OF PITTSBURGH: In addition to verify name or verifying an address, or verifying a birth date or Social Security number, a biometric can potentially add another layer of verification.

SIEBERG: Outgoing Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has been a supporter.

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY: We launched U.S. Visit, a program that uses biometrics to expedite the processing of foreign travelers and stop known or suspected terrorists at our borders.

SIEBERG: At five U.S. airports, some frequent flyers bypass lines by becoming registered travelers. A fingerprint or iris scan confirms their identity, and security can spend more time screening higher risk passengers. But critics caution that high-tech tools can sometimes provide a false sense of safety.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: One of the things that is important to remember about biometrics is that it is not a complete security solution in any sense. You have to have information about the people to decide whether or not they are a threat. The 9/11 hijackers, several of them, flew under their true names and those names were checked. The problem was that we didn't know that those people were dangerous.

SIEBERG: Researchers say the uniqueness of a fingerprint or facial scan helps to screen for multiple identities.

LARRY HORNAN, IDENTIFICATION TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH: When someone enrolls in the system, and whether it be for border security or drive's licenses, that's the opportunity for that organization to say OK, is this person, for example, already in the system as someone else.

SEIBERG: But experts like Hornan cautioned against the use of any high-tech tools without proper legal and privacy safeguards.

HORNAN: To really go off and just design this biometric system, which is some fantastic technological solution and totally ignoring the other side is really a recipe for disaster.

SIEBERG: Any use of biometrics is a balancing act to help identify the bad guys without fingering the innocent -- Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: It has been in the headlines for weeks, the 9-11 intelligence reform bill. This morning on CNN, there's lot about the bill that you may not know. We will try to answer some of your questions at the 9:30, a special report on the new changes to the way the nation handles intelligence.

HARRIS: Here's the latest Iraq situation report. An insult to severe injury for an Army Specialist Robert Loria (ph). Loria (ph) left part of an arm in Iraq. The army sent him a $6,000 bill for pay he should not have received and for travel expenses to get treatment. Fortunately, Loria's (ph) senators and congressmen interceded and the Army dropped the foul up.

The company that retro fits U.S. Army HUMVEES with additional armor says it can increase production by 100 units early next year. The question of whether the vehicles are properly armored was raised by a soldier on Wednesday at the prompting of a reporter.

NGUYEN: And that gets us to our e-mail question of the day. Following this week's heated Q&A between Donald Rumsfeld and troops in Kuwait what would you ask Donald Rumsfeld about the war in Iraq? Send your comments to Wam@cnn.com and we'll read them on the air.

HARRIS: Look, when you don't have time to think just get out of the way. Walking away from what could be a horrific accident. And it is all caught, as you can see, on tape.

NGUYEN: Later, eating well for the holidays without overdoing it on calories. Boy, that's hard to do. That's coming up at the bottom of the hour, on "House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And "News Across America" this morning.

In Utah, the name hacking has been removed from the grave stone of Lori Hacking and replaced with her maiden name, Sorrus (ph). Hacking's husband, Mark, is charged with murdering her. Lori's mother says the name change was made because, quote, "Mark obviously didn't want her anymore."

And check out this scary scene, and SUV driver loses control on a rainy highway in Hampton Roads, Virginia. Watch the highway worker in the left lanes at the median. The driver was not serious hurt even though the vehicle crashed into the median and flipped several times. It just missed the highway worker, Bunky Johnson, by about a foot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUNKY JOHNSON, HIGHWAY WORKER: Just good reflexes, I guess. I heard the skid and looked up and I saw just the bottom of the truck coming at me and parts started flying and hit me and I just hit the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Bunky says, hey, look, it is just a dangerous job. Someone has to do it.

NGUYEN: Just another day on the job. And by the way, that driver walked away from the accident, as well.

HARRIS: Yes, unhurt.

NGUYEN: Whew, scary just even looking at those pictures.

HARRIS: Slick roads. We have rain and we have snow. We have everything out there this morning.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

NGUYEN: We do have a check of your top stories this SATURDAY MORNING. Bernard Kerik backs out. Just a week ago President Bush tapped him to head the Homeland Security Department. Now, Kerik has withdrawn after finding out his housekeeper has a questionable immigration status.

In London, this morning, a funeral mass for aide worker Margaret Hassan. Who was apparently killed by insurgents in Iraq. Hassan's body still has not been found.

Back in the U.S., it is back to the dealer for thousands of car owners. DaimlerChrysler is recalling 600,000 Dodge Durango SUV and Dakota pickups. The government says a flaw in the vehicles can cause their tires to fall off.

HARRIS: On the run from U.S. military service. Canadian officials hear arguments from a former U.S. paratrooper who fled to Canada asking for refugee status. Could be he allowed to say?

NGUYEN: And on "House Call", enjoy holiday delights without paying the price around the waistline. All you need to know at the bottom of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: On the docket this morning, former U.S. paratrooper, Jeremy Hinzman is an Army deserter, who headed north to Canada last year after the military denied his application for conscientious objector status.

The veteran of "Operation Enduring Freedom" in Afghanistan, asked the Canadian government for refugee status in January. There was a hearing on the matter this week. If granted Hinzman would be allowed to remain in Canada and avoid a possible court martial and prison sentence in the U.S. The decision is expected early next year.

Plus, the same jury that convicted 32-year-old Scott Peterson of double murder is now deciding if he should be put to death.

Two cases on the docket this morning's "Legal Briefs". We toss these issues over to our legal combatants, former prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us live from Houston this morning. And civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is in our Miami bureau.

Good morning to both of you ladies.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. TEXAS PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Let's start with Scott Peterson.

Nelda, I want to start with you since you're the prosecutor here.

BLAIR: All right.

NGUYEN: The prosecutor in this case called him the worst kind of monster. How well did the prosecution do in trying to get Peterson a death sentence?

BLAIR: I think they did an excellent job. I couldn't agree more with the prosecutor that he's the worse kind of monster. They were perfect, they told -- they showed Laci. They showed the family. They showed what was lost. That's what the jury needed to see.

They also convinced the jury, I think, that you know this was a horrible murder. It wasn't in the heat of passion. It wasn't self- defense. It wasn't even -- it was premeditated. It wasn't even an accident. It was premeditated, cruel, horrible, cold, and calculated.

They did a great job of showing the jury that. I think the jury will come back with the death penalty.

NGUYEN: Lida, you agree, is he the worst kind of monster? And is he going to get the death penalty?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: He may very well get the death penalty. But no, he is absolutely not the worst of the worst. In order to be sentenced to die, the jury needs to look at aggravating factors and it needs to weigh them against mitigating factors.

In California every single one of those people has to vote for death in order for him to be sentenced to die.

One of the most interesting things that there was a lot of information and a lot of testimony from the two families, victim impact statements. You know, that's what the problem here is that what you have is a process that instead of being about aggravating and mitigating factors, has really become about whose family is more tragic.

It is not about reason, it is about emotion. It is about getting the Kleenex out and having a lot of tears shed. As a result, I think the prosecution did win the contest of the tears. And that's why he'll be executed but not because he's of the worst kind of murder.

BLAIR: Lida, let's not forget that this man killed two people at one time and one of them being a nearly born child. Let's not forget that. That is a major, major factor and the judge has told the jury not to use sympathy as their decision maker.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Yes, but Nelda, remember also that this man has absolutely no history of violence, no criminal history, no felony convictions. No reason, no aggravating reason why the jury should convict him to die -- other than the heinous nature of the crime. And the fact that Laci's family testified, loving people who are of course missing their child, testified about their loss. That's what's going to get him the death penalty. Not the evidence.

NGUYEN: So, Lida, you are saying that Peterson doesn't fit the mold for people who are on death row?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely does not fit the mold.

BLAIR: That is (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: He's wealthy. He's privileged. He's white. He does not fit the mold. And you know, Californians are very reluctant, unlike in the 37 other states that impose the death penalty, they are very reluctant to sentence somebody to die. But I think they will in this case.

BLAIR: I agree. I agree with that.

NGUYEN: All right. Well, on that agreement let's move on.

BLAIR: But that's all I agree with.

NGUYEN: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

NGUYEN: To the Hinzman case, if we shall. Should Hinzman get refugee status in Canada, Nelda?

BLAIR: Absolutely not. He has no legal basis whatsoever for refugee status.

There are two measurements. One, does he feel a well-founded threat of persecution back in the United States? Well, I'll tell you what, he has a well-founded threat of prosecution but not persecution, because of his religion or political beliefs. He ought to be prosecuted under military law to the full extent.

The second phase is whether or not he faces cruel and unusual punishment if he returns and therefore needs protection. Absolutely not. He may not go to prison, but that's not unusual for a deserter.

NGUYEN: Lida, do you agree? I mean Hinzman is saying he does not agree with the reason why we went to war, the U.S. went to war in Iraq. He doesn't feel that it was justified and therefore he has the right to stick up for what he believes in. And he didn't believe he should go.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: You know it is the holiday season, so I hate to agree with Nelda, but I absolutely must. The two-prong test, and way to turn a phrase, Nelda, it is truly about prosecution and not persecution.

The persecution he would have to show is persecution on the part of the U.S. government, not just because there are people who are going to be annoyed by what he did, and may come after him. It has to be government sponsored, or government sanctioned persecution. I don't think he can show this.

And with regard to the cruel and unusual punishment, one of the most interesting things is that there have been about 5,500 deserters so far in this war. The penalty for a deserter is death, in times of war, but the U.S. has basically treated deserters with kindness and has sentenced them mostly to a year in jail.

There doesn't seem to be way that he can meet the two-prong test. What he's relying on, is he's relying on the Canadian government making a finding that he disobeyed an illegal order, which means the Canadian government would have to find that the U.S.'s involvement in Iraq is illegal.

BLAIR: That's not going to happen.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's not going to happen.

BLAIR: No, that is not going to happen.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: And I completely agree with Nelda, here, why would our neighbor to the north, go sitting there, and making a judgment that the U.S.'s entry into the war as illegal.

BLAIR: Right.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: It would create a complete diplomatic disaster.

BLAIR: And let's not forget that this man bases his decision not go to war, not to do his duty, on media reports. On what he has heard, not on what his commander in chief decides, not on what his superiors have gained in intelligence, but what he saw on media reports. That is absolutely and excuse.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Nelda, you are absolutely right. One of the most interesting things is conscientious objectors are, of course, entitled to not serve in a war where they are in fact proven to be conscientious objectors.

BLAIR: Yes, but he's not one.

NGUYEN: We understand you both agree. And we know it's the holiday season when you agree not on one, but two things this morning.

Ladies, we thank you, as always. See you next weekend.

BLAIR: Thank you.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.

HARRIS: We have these follow ups on two of our recent "Legal Briefs". A Florida man has died after a Orlando court overruled his wife and ordered his life support removed. Alice Pinyet (ph), has power of attorney and had said her husband was getting better. His living will said he preferred to die if he faced the situation.

And in Rhode Island, a TV reporter is sentenced to six months of home confinement. Jim Taricani refused to disclose how he obtained a surveillance videotape of a Providence politician taking a bribe.

NGUYEN: And we want to get to our e-mail question of the day because we have some very interesting responses. The question is: What would you ask Donald Rumsfeld about the war in Iraq, if you were given the opportunity?

Jason writes, "As a Marine vet in Bosnia, Somalia, and Haiti, I have but one question to ask. Are we winning this war? Are we going to win this war? And if you call this winning, what would you call losing?"

HARRIS: And this from Roger, "I would ask Rumsfeld to drive a non-armored HUMVEE."

How about this one from Heather, this morning, "Will these deployments ever get shorter or less frequent? Or will my boys have to join the Army and get an assignment in Iraq to get to know their father?"

Thank you for the e-mails this morning.

NGUYEN: Absolutely, we'll be reading more of those throughout the morning in the 9:00 hour.

Will it be the largest overhaul of the intelligence community since World War II?

HARRIS: We know the key parts of the intelligence bill, but what about the parts that don't make the headlines? Next hour, intelligence reform, what you don't know. That is at 9:30 Eastern.

And next...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

The saucers (ph) are an excellent give because you can take them on the road, travel. This is $20, all the way up to $200.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And get your pencils ready. Up next on "House Call": Healthy gifts for your loved ones. Healthy holiday food and gifts next on "House Call" with Elizabeth Cohen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired December 11, 2004 - 07:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: I'm Tony Harris thanks for being with us.
"Now in the News": Bernard Kerik is walking away from the top job at the Homeland Security Department. Kerik withdrew his name for consideration after he discovered a nanny he hired had questionable immigration status. A live report is straight ahead.

Today, many will gather to remember the life of Margaret Hassan. A funeral mass for the aide worker is planned in the London today. She is the British/Iraqi hostage who is believed to have been killed by her captors in Iraq. She was kidnapped on October 19 in Baghdad. Her body has not been found.

And in Iraq, assassinated while driving to work. Two top officials in the Iraqi government are gunned down in southwest Baghdad. Officials say the victims were on their way to work at the Iraqi interior ministry when assailants sprayed their car with bullets.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY MORNING: Also coming up this hour, you have seen them in James Bond movies. Iris scans, in "Golden Eye", or finger printing in "Gold Finger". Now, biometric technology that is so often dramatized in the movies is finding its way into every day life. How does it work? We'll have a special report.

And he's a veteran U.S. paratrooper who is now an Army deserter. Jeremy Hinzman is in Canada seeking refugee status and hoping to avoid court-martial and prison time right here in the U.S. We'll debate his case in this mornings "Legal Briefs".

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just good reflexes, I guess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Rapid reflexes and fast footwork saved one man's life. We'll tell you what happened after this out of control SUV skidded out of control right where a highway worker was standing.

HARRIS: Our top story this hour, a job opening and what you might call a want ad. President Bush is looking for yet another person to fill the job of Homeland Security secretary, after Bernard Kerik withdrew his name from consideration, to lead the department.

More on this story now from CNN's Elaine Quijano on the phone from Washington.

Good morning, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

The White House made the announcement late last night that Bernie Kerik was withdrawing his name for consideration for the Homeland Security post. The reason given by Kerik? The questionable immigration status of a nanny.

President Bush, in leaving the White House today, he was on his way to a physical and to visit wounded troops in at Bethesda Naval Medical Center, in suburban Washington, no comment.

But in a statement last night the White House said Kerik was withdrawing his name for personal reasons and the president respects his decision and wishes Kerik and his wife well.

Now, Kerik, of course is the former New York City police commissioner, whom the president nominated to head up the Homeland Security Department and replace outgoing Secretary Tom Ridge.

The initial reaction from New York Democrats was quite positive. Both Senators Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton issued statements at that time, applauding that choice. Saying they thought Kerik had leadership skills and firsthand experience necessary for the job.

But last night in a statement Kerik said that in the course getting together documents required for the Senate confirmation process he found information about that questionable immigration status of a housekeeper and nanny. And in his letter to the president Kerik said he was convinced that for personal reasons moving forward would not be in the best interest of the administration, the Department of Homeland Security, or the American people.

This, certainly a surprise, Tony, all day long yesterday, White House officials both on the record and off the record, said they were confident about the vetting process.

As you know there had been questions raised about Kerik's relationship with a TASER International, a stun gun company, for which he had stock options and Kerik sold and made millions of dollars from. But yesterday officials said they looked at that issue carefully. They had a high degree of confidence in the process and at this point all indications are that this came as a complete surprise, at least to the officials that talked to CNN about this -- Tony.

HARRIS: White House Correspondent Elaine Quijano, this morning.

Elaine, thank you.

Congressional investigators say efforts to secure the nation's ports and small private planes from terrorists are not good enough. The report by the Government Accountability (sic) Office, warns against focusing too much on commercial aviation. Investigators say the Transportation Security Administration also needs to send meaningful threat information to charter airlines and flight schools.

NGUYEN: One goal of the Homeland Security Department is to make sure the nation's borders are safe and secure. And one way outgoing Secretary Tom Ridge did that was by launching a novel system using biometric technology. So, what is it and how does it work? Here's CNN Technology Correspondent Daniel Sieberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From fingerprints to voice recognition....

(on camera): ...I am who I say I am.

(voice over): ... iris scans, to hand geometry, biometric measurements are used to gain access to offices, to get drivers' licenses, even to pay for groceries. What about homeland security?

PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIV. OF PITTSBURGH: In addition to verify name or verifying an address, or verifying a birth date or Social Security number, a biometric can potentially add another layer of verification.

SIEBERG: Outgoing Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has been a supporter.

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY: We launched U.S. Visit, a program that uses biometrics to expedite the processing of foreign travelers and stop known or suspected terrorists at our borders.

SIEBERG: At five U.S. airports, some frequent flyers bypass lines by becoming registered travelers. A fingerprint or iris scan confirms their identity, and security can spend more time screening higher risk passengers. But critics caution that high-tech tools can sometimes provide a false sense of safety.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: One of the things that is important to remember about biometrics is that it is not a complete security solution in any sense. You have to have information about the people to decide whether or not they are a threat. The 9/11 hijackers, several of them, flew under their true names and those names were checked. The problem was that we didn't know that those people were dangerous.

SIEBERG: Researchers say the uniqueness of a fingerprint or facial scan helps to screen for multiple identities.

LARRY HORNAN, IDENTIFICATION TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH: When someone enrolls in the system, and whether it be for border security or drive's licenses, that's the opportunity for that organization to say OK, is this person, for example, already in the system as someone else.

SEIBERG: But experts like Hornan cautioned against the use of any high-tech tools without proper legal and privacy safeguards.

HORNAN: To really go off and just design this biometric system, which is some fantastic technological solution and totally ignoring the other side is really a recipe for disaster.

SIEBERG: Any use of biometrics is a balancing act to help identify the bad guys without fingering the innocent -- Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: It has been in the headlines for weeks, the 9-11 intelligence reform bill. This morning on CNN, there's lot about the bill that you may not know. We will try to answer some of your questions at the 9:30, a special report on the new changes to the way the nation handles intelligence.

HARRIS: Here's the latest Iraq situation report. An insult to severe injury for an Army Specialist Robert Loria (ph). Loria (ph) left part of an arm in Iraq. The army sent him a $6,000 bill for pay he should not have received and for travel expenses to get treatment. Fortunately, Loria's (ph) senators and congressmen interceded and the Army dropped the foul up.

The company that retro fits U.S. Army HUMVEES with additional armor says it can increase production by 100 units early next year. The question of whether the vehicles are properly armored was raised by a soldier on Wednesday at the prompting of a reporter.

NGUYEN: And that gets us to our e-mail question of the day. Following this week's heated Q&A between Donald Rumsfeld and troops in Kuwait what would you ask Donald Rumsfeld about the war in Iraq? Send your comments to Wam@cnn.com and we'll read them on the air.

HARRIS: Look, when you don't have time to think just get out of the way. Walking away from what could be a horrific accident. And it is all caught, as you can see, on tape.

NGUYEN: Later, eating well for the holidays without overdoing it on calories. Boy, that's hard to do. That's coming up at the bottom of the hour, on "House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And "News Across America" this morning.

In Utah, the name hacking has been removed from the grave stone of Lori Hacking and replaced with her maiden name, Sorrus (ph). Hacking's husband, Mark, is charged with murdering her. Lori's mother says the name change was made because, quote, "Mark obviously didn't want her anymore."

And check out this scary scene, and SUV driver loses control on a rainy highway in Hampton Roads, Virginia. Watch the highway worker in the left lanes at the median. The driver was not serious hurt even though the vehicle crashed into the median and flipped several times. It just missed the highway worker, Bunky Johnson, by about a foot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUNKY JOHNSON, HIGHWAY WORKER: Just good reflexes, I guess. I heard the skid and looked up and I saw just the bottom of the truck coming at me and parts started flying and hit me and I just hit the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Bunky says, hey, look, it is just a dangerous job. Someone has to do it.

NGUYEN: Just another day on the job. And by the way, that driver walked away from the accident, as well.

HARRIS: Yes, unhurt.

NGUYEN: Whew, scary just even looking at those pictures.

HARRIS: Slick roads. We have rain and we have snow. We have everything out there this morning.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

NGUYEN: We do have a check of your top stories this SATURDAY MORNING. Bernard Kerik backs out. Just a week ago President Bush tapped him to head the Homeland Security Department. Now, Kerik has withdrawn after finding out his housekeeper has a questionable immigration status.

In London, this morning, a funeral mass for aide worker Margaret Hassan. Who was apparently killed by insurgents in Iraq. Hassan's body still has not been found.

Back in the U.S., it is back to the dealer for thousands of car owners. DaimlerChrysler is recalling 600,000 Dodge Durango SUV and Dakota pickups. The government says a flaw in the vehicles can cause their tires to fall off.

HARRIS: On the run from U.S. military service. Canadian officials hear arguments from a former U.S. paratrooper who fled to Canada asking for refugee status. Could be he allowed to say?

NGUYEN: And on "House Call", enjoy holiday delights without paying the price around the waistline. All you need to know at the bottom of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: On the docket this morning, former U.S. paratrooper, Jeremy Hinzman is an Army deserter, who headed north to Canada last year after the military denied his application for conscientious objector status.

The veteran of "Operation Enduring Freedom" in Afghanistan, asked the Canadian government for refugee status in January. There was a hearing on the matter this week. If granted Hinzman would be allowed to remain in Canada and avoid a possible court martial and prison sentence in the U.S. The decision is expected early next year.

Plus, the same jury that convicted 32-year-old Scott Peterson of double murder is now deciding if he should be put to death.

Two cases on the docket this morning's "Legal Briefs". We toss these issues over to our legal combatants, former prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us live from Houston this morning. And civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is in our Miami bureau.

Good morning to both of you ladies.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. TEXAS PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Let's start with Scott Peterson.

Nelda, I want to start with you since you're the prosecutor here.

BLAIR: All right.

NGUYEN: The prosecutor in this case called him the worst kind of monster. How well did the prosecution do in trying to get Peterson a death sentence?

BLAIR: I think they did an excellent job. I couldn't agree more with the prosecutor that he's the worse kind of monster. They were perfect, they told -- they showed Laci. They showed the family. They showed what was lost. That's what the jury needed to see.

They also convinced the jury, I think, that you know this was a horrible murder. It wasn't in the heat of passion. It wasn't self- defense. It wasn't even -- it was premeditated. It wasn't even an accident. It was premeditated, cruel, horrible, cold, and calculated.

They did a great job of showing the jury that. I think the jury will come back with the death penalty.

NGUYEN: Lida, you agree, is he the worst kind of monster? And is he going to get the death penalty?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: He may very well get the death penalty. But no, he is absolutely not the worst of the worst. In order to be sentenced to die, the jury needs to look at aggravating factors and it needs to weigh them against mitigating factors.

In California every single one of those people has to vote for death in order for him to be sentenced to die.

One of the most interesting things that there was a lot of information and a lot of testimony from the two families, victim impact statements. You know, that's what the problem here is that what you have is a process that instead of being about aggravating and mitigating factors, has really become about whose family is more tragic.

It is not about reason, it is about emotion. It is about getting the Kleenex out and having a lot of tears shed. As a result, I think the prosecution did win the contest of the tears. And that's why he'll be executed but not because he's of the worst kind of murder.

BLAIR: Lida, let's not forget that this man killed two people at one time and one of them being a nearly born child. Let's not forget that. That is a major, major factor and the judge has told the jury not to use sympathy as their decision maker.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Yes, but Nelda, remember also that this man has absolutely no history of violence, no criminal history, no felony convictions. No reason, no aggravating reason why the jury should convict him to die -- other than the heinous nature of the crime. And the fact that Laci's family testified, loving people who are of course missing their child, testified about their loss. That's what's going to get him the death penalty. Not the evidence.

NGUYEN: So, Lida, you are saying that Peterson doesn't fit the mold for people who are on death row?

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Absolutely does not fit the mold.

BLAIR: That is (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: He's wealthy. He's privileged. He's white. He does not fit the mold. And you know, Californians are very reluctant, unlike in the 37 other states that impose the death penalty, they are very reluctant to sentence somebody to die. But I think they will in this case.

BLAIR: I agree. I agree with that.

NGUYEN: All right. Well, on that agreement let's move on.

BLAIR: But that's all I agree with.

NGUYEN: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

NGUYEN: To the Hinzman case, if we shall. Should Hinzman get refugee status in Canada, Nelda?

BLAIR: Absolutely not. He has no legal basis whatsoever for refugee status.

There are two measurements. One, does he feel a well-founded threat of persecution back in the United States? Well, I'll tell you what, he has a well-founded threat of prosecution but not persecution, because of his religion or political beliefs. He ought to be prosecuted under military law to the full extent.

The second phase is whether or not he faces cruel and unusual punishment if he returns and therefore needs protection. Absolutely not. He may not go to prison, but that's not unusual for a deserter.

NGUYEN: Lida, do you agree? I mean Hinzman is saying he does not agree with the reason why we went to war, the U.S. went to war in Iraq. He doesn't feel that it was justified and therefore he has the right to stick up for what he believes in. And he didn't believe he should go.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: You know it is the holiday season, so I hate to agree with Nelda, but I absolutely must. The two-prong test, and way to turn a phrase, Nelda, it is truly about prosecution and not persecution.

The persecution he would have to show is persecution on the part of the U.S. government, not just because there are people who are going to be annoyed by what he did, and may come after him. It has to be government sponsored, or government sanctioned persecution. I don't think he can show this.

And with regard to the cruel and unusual punishment, one of the most interesting things is that there have been about 5,500 deserters so far in this war. The penalty for a deserter is death, in times of war, but the U.S. has basically treated deserters with kindness and has sentenced them mostly to a year in jail.

There doesn't seem to be way that he can meet the two-prong test. What he's relying on, is he's relying on the Canadian government making a finding that he disobeyed an illegal order, which means the Canadian government would have to find that the U.S.'s involvement in Iraq is illegal.

BLAIR: That's not going to happen.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: That's not going to happen.

BLAIR: No, that is not going to happen.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: And I completely agree with Nelda, here, why would our neighbor to the north, go sitting there, and making a judgment that the U.S.'s entry into the war as illegal.

BLAIR: Right.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: It would create a complete diplomatic disaster.

BLAIR: And let's not forget that this man bases his decision not go to war, not to do his duty, on media reports. On what he has heard, not on what his commander in chief decides, not on what his superiors have gained in intelligence, but what he saw on media reports. That is absolutely and excuse.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Nelda, you are absolutely right. One of the most interesting things is conscientious objectors are, of course, entitled to not serve in a war where they are in fact proven to be conscientious objectors.

BLAIR: Yes, but he's not one.

NGUYEN: We understand you both agree. And we know it's the holiday season when you agree not on one, but two things this morning.

Ladies, we thank you, as always. See you next weekend.

BLAIR: Thank you.

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Thank you.

HARRIS: We have these follow ups on two of our recent "Legal Briefs". A Florida man has died after a Orlando court overruled his wife and ordered his life support removed. Alice Pinyet (ph), has power of attorney and had said her husband was getting better. His living will said he preferred to die if he faced the situation.

And in Rhode Island, a TV reporter is sentenced to six months of home confinement. Jim Taricani refused to disclose how he obtained a surveillance videotape of a Providence politician taking a bribe.

NGUYEN: And we want to get to our e-mail question of the day because we have some very interesting responses. The question is: What would you ask Donald Rumsfeld about the war in Iraq, if you were given the opportunity?

Jason writes, "As a Marine vet in Bosnia, Somalia, and Haiti, I have but one question to ask. Are we winning this war? Are we going to win this war? And if you call this winning, what would you call losing?"

HARRIS: And this from Roger, "I would ask Rumsfeld to drive a non-armored HUMVEE."

How about this one from Heather, this morning, "Will these deployments ever get shorter or less frequent? Or will my boys have to join the Army and get an assignment in Iraq to get to know their father?"

Thank you for the e-mails this morning.

NGUYEN: Absolutely, we'll be reading more of those throughout the morning in the 9:00 hour.

Will it be the largest overhaul of the intelligence community since World War II?

HARRIS: We know the key parts of the intelligence bill, but what about the parts that don't make the headlines? Next hour, intelligence reform, what you don't know. That is at 9:30 Eastern.

And next...

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The saucers (ph) are an excellent give because you can take them on the road, travel. This is $20, all the way up to $200.

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HARRIS: And get your pencils ready. Up next on "House Call": Healthy gifts for your loved ones. Healthy holiday food and gifts next on "House Call" with Elizabeth Cohen.

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