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CNN Saturday Morning News

Legal Briefs with Nelda Blair, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff

Aired December 18, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And now a Kansas woman stands accused of an unspeakable crime. We have a live report in just minutes.
And are prosecutors unfairly targeting Michael Jackson because he's a celebrity? His lawyers think so. We'll find out what our guest lawyers think in our "Legal Briefs".

Also ahead, problems with another popular pain killer. There are some new and very serious questions about the safety of Celebrex this morning. We'll have details on what it means for those of you who take the drug.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: But first up this hour on CNN, deciding how your money is spent. President Bush is hammering out the details for the first budget proposal of his second term and he is facing quite a few challenges. Rising deficits and falling tax revenues could all add up to some lean times ahead.

CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us live from White House with more on the president's spending plans.

Good morning, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

That's right, the White House does face some budget challenges, and the president has made clear there are going to have to be sacrifices. Now, the president most recently indicated that during his two-day economic conference, earlier this week here in Washington, there has, of course, been continued pressure by conservatives on the Bush White House to cut the deficit, curb spending, and all indications are that's just what the White House is preparing to do in the president's second term.

Although the budget details are not out just yet, we already know where the president's priorities lie. He campaigned, of course, on keeping America safer and with the administration's vow to keep fighting the war on terror, expect to see spending on defense and also homeland security to remain top priorities.

Yesterday, at the signing of the intelligence overhaul bill, the president reiterated his commitment to fighting the war on terror. And today as the president works to try and meet the pledge to cut the deficit in half in five years, that money is going to have come from somewhere, but no specific details, no official word on where those cuts might lie - Tony.

HARRIS: OK, Elaine Quijano at the White House for us this morning.

Elaine, thank you.

NGUYEN: Now to a story that hits close to home for millions of Americans. A consumer group is calling on federal authorities to ban the popular painkiller Celebrex. The drug maker, Pfizer, says a new study shows Celebrex can cause an increased risk of heart problems. Pfizer is reviewing the data, but the company says it will not pull the drug from the market.

HARRIS: With the new concerns about Celebrex, there are questions whether patients should stop taking the drug. And that makes us ask you, what are the concerns about the safety of Celebrex? Send your questions to HouseCall@cnn.com. Coming up at 8:30 Eastern, in a live edition of "House Call" a cardiologist joins us to answer some of your questions.

Two airport baggage screeners have been reassigned after clearing a fake bomb at Newark Airport. The bomb was part of a test by the Transportation Security Administration on Tuesday. A piece of luggage with the simulated bomb ended up on a flight to Amsterdam.

Stay tuned to CNN both day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And here's a look at other news across America.

The recount in Washington State's governor's race has landed in the state supreme court. A judge blocked a count of hundreds of recently discovered ballots. The uncounted votes are from Democratic- leaning King County.

Fire in Huntington, West Virginia, in a garage there, sends 2,000 toys up in flames. The toys were supposed to go towards the Toys for Tots program. Church and civic groups immediately pledged to replace the toys, valued at $7,000.

Thousands of new U.S. soldiers will get to be home for the holidays. Operation Exodus is allowing the fresh recruits to get some brief R&R from military duties. Most of soldiers have been traveling late night hours through the Atlanta-Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. Most of them are based at Ft. Benning or Ft. Gordon. USO volunteers are on hand with food and gifts for the soldiers as they make their way home.

An Alabama judge says he won't stop wearing a robe with the Ten Commandments on it. Is the case even worthy of being on the docket?

NGUYEN: And the Celebrex scare. A live edition of "House Call" takes your questions about the drug. E-mail us at HouseCall@cnn.com. We'll try to get those questions answered.

All ahead this morning on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: A baby kidnapped from her mother's womb has been found alive and the woman accused of taking her has been arrested. Bobbie Jo Stinnett (ph) was strangled to death in her northwest Missouri City home on Thursday. Her eight-month old fetus had been removed. Michelle Rooney from our affiliate KNBC joins us now live from the federal courthouse in Kansas City, with the latest on the arrest in this case.

What a bizarre case.

MICHELLE ROONEY, REPORTER, KNBC, KANSAS CITY: Oh, it most certainly is, Betty. Good morning to you and good morning everyone.

Here behind me is the federal courthouse in Kansas City. This is where Lisa Montgomery will eventually face those kidnapping charges, and perhaps the death penalty in the homicide of Bobbie Jo Stinnett.

Now, Stinnett, as you said, was just a month away from giving birth when her when her eight-month-old fetus was cut from her womb, and Stinnett was strangled.

It was a 23-hour frantic hunt here in the Kansas City area for the baby. It has ended successfully. As you said, that child has been found. She is a little girl. She is hospitalized this morning and reportedly doing very well.

Now, it was an investigation that moved very quickly. Two things broke this case wide open. A TIPS called that came together simultaneously with forensics work on the victim's computer. The two women apparently met on the computer.

Authorities believe Montgomery told Stinnett that she was coming to look at the dogs Stinnett bred. Apparently saying that she may want to buy one of the dogs.

The FBI descended on Montgomery's house yesterday finding her and the baby, again, the baby alive and well.

The 36-year-old Montgomery in federal custody. We may see her making a first appearance in court as early as this weekend and certainly we will see her in court sometime this week. Back to you.

NGUYEN: Michelle, what do we know about the suspect here? Does she have a criminal history?

ROONEY: They have not released any information regarding any criminal history of the suspect, only to say that she did have other children.

That she went to Topeka, Kansas and apparently called her husband and said she had a baby. Went to a local restaurant there in Topeka and asked him to come pick her up with the baby. She was at this restaurant with this premature baby. That the husband came and picked her up and they went back to their house outside of Topeka. This investigation is ongoing, as you said, it is very bizarre. And the investigation continues right now. Montgomery is the only person charged. Whether or not we see other charges is still not known at this hour.

NGUYEN: A lot of questions still to be answered. Michelle Rooney, of KNBC, we thank you for that this morning.

ROONEY: Thank you.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

NGUYEN: If new evidence is introduced in the Michael Jackson case, what will it do to the pop star's defense? We'll ask our legal eagles when CNN SATURDAY MORNING returns.

HARRIS: But first, as we sent out our cameras this week to ask you how much you plan on spending for Christmas this year.

NGUYEN: Too much.

HARRIS: Yes. And what is your total debt. Here's what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just spent a lot of money on something, maybe $500.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $500, total? For everybody?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, maybe so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you don't plan ongoing into debt this year?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, definitely not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably around $500, $600.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, in terms of your debt. What do you think is your total debt? Everything you owe, school loans, house, car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $150,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Here's a look now at our top stories.

A California woman is pleading for the life of her ex-husband. Roy Hallums was one of five people kidnapped six weeks ago in Baghdad. He hasn't been heard from since. Hallums is a contractor for a Saudi company. A Kansas woman has been charged with a kidnapping resulting death. Police say she took an eight-month-old baby from her mother's womb. The baby girl was found Friday, apparently in good health.

The FDA is advising doctors to consider alternatives to popular painkiller Celebrex. This comes after the drug maker, Pfizer, said a new study Celebrex can cause an increased risk of heart problems.

Mall traffic gets a slight break every year from people who choose to do their Christmas shopping on line.

Listen up, you last-minute shoppers!

NGUYEN: That's me.

HARRIS: I'm scolding myself here. It's not too late for you to be let in on the Internet and let the Internet be your Santa's helper. The worldwide web, a procrastinator's friend, last minute shopping on the Internet, tomorrow morning on "Best of the Web", 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

NGUYEN: The attorney for Michael Jackson asked to have the child molestation charges against him dismissed. He claims prosecutors spend more time on the singer than on capital murder cases. So far more than 100 search warrants have been served.

Also this morning, a judge says he will not stop wearing a robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front. Alabama's Covington County Judge Ashley McCaffin (ph) says the Commandments represent the truth.

Now a lawyer filed a motion objecting to the robe, in a case before that same judge. Two cases on the docket this morning. Let's get right to the give-and-take over these cases. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us from San Antonio today. And civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is at her usual post in our Miami bureau.

Good morning, ladies.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. TEXAS PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Nelda, let start with you. Prosecutors want to introduce evidence in this Michael Jackson case that say that he committed sexual crimes over the years. Now this evidence, how can they admit it this -- first of all what evidence are we talking about and how can they admit it if he was never charged in these cases?

BLAIR: What we're talking about is evidence he's been accused of sexually molesting other young boys. We call it propensity evidence. In California it's sometimes admissible.

It shows a jury that if a person could have done these things in the past has a tendency to do it over and over and over that perhaps he's also guilty of what he's charged with currently, which is molestation of a young boy.

Whether the judge is going to let this in, we don't know. But in California, it is good evidence and the prosecutors, if they can use it, I think it could help their case tremendously.

NGUYEN: Lida, should the judge let it in?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Absolutely not. For three centuries, we have kept propensity evidence out of the courtroom.

In California in 1995, the California legislature passed this kooky law following a federal law that was passed in 1994, allowing propensity evidence to be admitted in sexual abuse cases.

The interesting thing here, though, is what you pointed out, Betty, is he's never been charged with these crimes. When the prosecution wants to put on evidence in the Jackson case that says he did it before, he did it again. How can they prove that he did it before? You're going to end up with a trial within a trial where the prosecution is going to have to put on evidence that he did it before. This is going to become an absolute circus. I very much doubt the judge will admit it. Even in kooky California, this would be unacceptable.

NGUYEN: OK, but what if the judge does let it in? Does this destroy the defense's case, Nelda.

BLAIR: Absolutely. It harms it greatly. Remember, the reason Jackson has never been charged is because he paid millions, millions of dollars to these at least two families, not to pursue the charges against him. The fact that he hasn't been charged does not mean that he's innocent. If the prosecution can use that at all, it will definitely hurt the defense's case, no question about it. Right now all they have is the word of a little boy. If they can get more evidence, it will help them.

NGUYEN: Let's move on quickly. Debbie Rowe, Jackson's ex-wife, she has been subpoenaed to testify. She's the mother of two of Jackson's children. What is she going to say in this case, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: She wants to kick up the dirt. This is a woman, let's not forget, that is trying to get custody of her children by arguing Jackson is an unfit father. The prosecution is taking full advantage of the fact this woman is looking for money and looking for her kids back.

They're looking for an opportunity to use her to provide them with al sorts of nasty, sordid evidence about Jackson and about his habits with children.

BLAIR: Now, Lida, isn't is it just possible that she knows a lot of things having been in the unique position of being his wife, being around him when he's around her children and other children? She has an obligation to sit on that stand, tell the truth, and to help the prosecution, if she knows evidence that's helpful to them. There's nothing more than that and nothing wrong with that. NGUYEN: Quickly before we move onto the robe case with the judge in Alabama, there have been over 100 search warrants in this Michael Jackson case. Is it simply because Michael Jackson is a celebrity? Are folks being unfair because he is a celebrity, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Absolutely. Not just because he's a celebrity, but you have a prosecutor who has a vendetta, who is out to get Michael Jackson, because he didn't get him before.

Yes, he's using his power as a prosecutor and using California tax money to prosecute this case.

BLAIR: Not so. They're in the limelight, the spotlight, being viewed under a microscope by all the nation. And therefore, they're very careful. I think they're doing a very good job.

NGUYEN: Let's move on to the south Alabama case where the judge is wearing the robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on it. Is he wrong, in this case, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course, he's wrong. This is a case about man who is on trial. This is a criminal defendant and every criminal defendant who appears before him. These are people who are on trial who have and deserve to have the law applied. Not the law that I believe in as a religious person, but the law that the people have voted on.

The Ten Commandments are not the law of the land. The law of the land is the penal code. What's happening here is he's passing judgment on these defendants and he's using his post to get out his own political message. And he can't do that, especially in a criminal case.

NGUYEN: Nelda?

BLAIR: Spoken like a desperate defense attorney.

(LAUGHTER)

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Oh, vicious.

BLAIR: This lawyer has no better argument in his case than he's going to appeal because of what the judge was wearing. What if he had on a Satan suit? It doesn't matter what the judge wears. What matters is how good this man's case is with and how well he argues it, not what the judge has on.

NGUYEN: But Nelda, will that robe cause jurors to be swayed one way or the other?

BLAIR: No, no, absolutely not. I mean, what if the judge was a cross dresser? It could be anything. It does not matter what the person sitting on the bench wears. What matters is the argument.

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course, it does. Nelda, you know it does. It also matters what the defendant is made to wear, as you know. In cases where defendants have been brought into court wearing shackles, the courts has repeatedly says it matters what the defendant wears.

BLAIR: Totally different.

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course it matters what the judge wears. If he wars a shirt that says, I hate all DUI defendants, do you think the jury is going to be swayed?

BLAIR: What I think...

(CROSS TALK)

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Go ahead.

BLAIR: What I think is this defense lawyer is a whiner. He needs to get on with is case.

NGUYEN: We have got to leave it there, Ladies. As always, good battle between you two. We'll see you next weekend, Nelda and Lida.

HARRIS: That is some good stuff.

All right. It won't be out in time for Christmas giving but Amber Frey has signed a book deal. In case it slipped your mind, Frey was Scott Peterson's mistress. Her publisher promises a chilling...

What am I listening to, here?

NGUYEN: The Von Trapp children. That's a totally different segment.

HARRIS: Should I -- all right.

Peterson has been sentenced to die for the death of his wife Laci and their unborn son. Frey's memoir is set to go on sale January 4.

NGUYEN: All right. Now, here we go.

CHILDREN SINGING: When the dog bites, when the bee stings, when I'm feeling sad, I simply remember my favorite things and then I don't feel so sad.

NGUYEN: Yes, you've heard the hit musical and the movie, "Sound of Music", right? Now meet the great-grandchildren of Captain Von Trapp. They have a new Christmas album out. And will join us live. Don't they sound great?

HARRIS: Sounds good.

NGUYEN: First, Elizabeth Cohen joins us with a preview of today's "House Call."

Hi, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi.

Coming up in just a few minutes, we're going to talk to experts who will take your questions on yesterday's big news about Celebrex. Send us your e-mail questions about Celebrex fears at houseCall@cnn.com. That's coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired December 18, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And now a Kansas woman stands accused of an unspeakable crime. We have a live report in just minutes.
And are prosecutors unfairly targeting Michael Jackson because he's a celebrity? His lawyers think so. We'll find out what our guest lawyers think in our "Legal Briefs".

Also ahead, problems with another popular pain killer. There are some new and very serious questions about the safety of Celebrex this morning. We'll have details on what it means for those of you who take the drug.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: But first up this hour on CNN, deciding how your money is spent. President Bush is hammering out the details for the first budget proposal of his second term and he is facing quite a few challenges. Rising deficits and falling tax revenues could all add up to some lean times ahead.

CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us live from White House with more on the president's spending plans.

Good morning, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

That's right, the White House does face some budget challenges, and the president has made clear there are going to have to be sacrifices. Now, the president most recently indicated that during his two-day economic conference, earlier this week here in Washington, there has, of course, been continued pressure by conservatives on the Bush White House to cut the deficit, curb spending, and all indications are that's just what the White House is preparing to do in the president's second term.

Although the budget details are not out just yet, we already know where the president's priorities lie. He campaigned, of course, on keeping America safer and with the administration's vow to keep fighting the war on terror, expect to see spending on defense and also homeland security to remain top priorities.

Yesterday, at the signing of the intelligence overhaul bill, the president reiterated his commitment to fighting the war on terror. And today as the president works to try and meet the pledge to cut the deficit in half in five years, that money is going to have come from somewhere, but no specific details, no official word on where those cuts might lie - Tony.

HARRIS: OK, Elaine Quijano at the White House for us this morning.

Elaine, thank you.

NGUYEN: Now to a story that hits close to home for millions of Americans. A consumer group is calling on federal authorities to ban the popular painkiller Celebrex. The drug maker, Pfizer, says a new study shows Celebrex can cause an increased risk of heart problems. Pfizer is reviewing the data, but the company says it will not pull the drug from the market.

HARRIS: With the new concerns about Celebrex, there are questions whether patients should stop taking the drug. And that makes us ask you, what are the concerns about the safety of Celebrex? Send your questions to HouseCall@cnn.com. Coming up at 8:30 Eastern, in a live edition of "House Call" a cardiologist joins us to answer some of your questions.

Two airport baggage screeners have been reassigned after clearing a fake bomb at Newark Airport. The bomb was part of a test by the Transportation Security Administration on Tuesday. A piece of luggage with the simulated bomb ended up on a flight to Amsterdam.

Stay tuned to CNN both day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And here's a look at other news across America.

The recount in Washington State's governor's race has landed in the state supreme court. A judge blocked a count of hundreds of recently discovered ballots. The uncounted votes are from Democratic- leaning King County.

Fire in Huntington, West Virginia, in a garage there, sends 2,000 toys up in flames. The toys were supposed to go towards the Toys for Tots program. Church and civic groups immediately pledged to replace the toys, valued at $7,000.

Thousands of new U.S. soldiers will get to be home for the holidays. Operation Exodus is allowing the fresh recruits to get some brief R&R from military duties. Most of soldiers have been traveling late night hours through the Atlanta-Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. Most of them are based at Ft. Benning or Ft. Gordon. USO volunteers are on hand with food and gifts for the soldiers as they make their way home.

An Alabama judge says he won't stop wearing a robe with the Ten Commandments on it. Is the case even worthy of being on the docket?

NGUYEN: And the Celebrex scare. A live edition of "House Call" takes your questions about the drug. E-mail us at HouseCall@cnn.com. We'll try to get those questions answered.

All ahead this morning on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: A baby kidnapped from her mother's womb has been found alive and the woman accused of taking her has been arrested. Bobbie Jo Stinnett (ph) was strangled to death in her northwest Missouri City home on Thursday. Her eight-month old fetus had been removed. Michelle Rooney from our affiliate KNBC joins us now live from the federal courthouse in Kansas City, with the latest on the arrest in this case.

What a bizarre case.

MICHELLE ROONEY, REPORTER, KNBC, KANSAS CITY: Oh, it most certainly is, Betty. Good morning to you and good morning everyone.

Here behind me is the federal courthouse in Kansas City. This is where Lisa Montgomery will eventually face those kidnapping charges, and perhaps the death penalty in the homicide of Bobbie Jo Stinnett.

Now, Stinnett, as you said, was just a month away from giving birth when her when her eight-month-old fetus was cut from her womb, and Stinnett was strangled.

It was a 23-hour frantic hunt here in the Kansas City area for the baby. It has ended successfully. As you said, that child has been found. She is a little girl. She is hospitalized this morning and reportedly doing very well.

Now, it was an investigation that moved very quickly. Two things broke this case wide open. A TIPS called that came together simultaneously with forensics work on the victim's computer. The two women apparently met on the computer.

Authorities believe Montgomery told Stinnett that she was coming to look at the dogs Stinnett bred. Apparently saying that she may want to buy one of the dogs.

The FBI descended on Montgomery's house yesterday finding her and the baby, again, the baby alive and well.

The 36-year-old Montgomery in federal custody. We may see her making a first appearance in court as early as this weekend and certainly we will see her in court sometime this week. Back to you.

NGUYEN: Michelle, what do we know about the suspect here? Does she have a criminal history?

ROONEY: They have not released any information regarding any criminal history of the suspect, only to say that she did have other children.

That she went to Topeka, Kansas and apparently called her husband and said she had a baby. Went to a local restaurant there in Topeka and asked him to come pick her up with the baby. She was at this restaurant with this premature baby. That the husband came and picked her up and they went back to their house outside of Topeka. This investigation is ongoing, as you said, it is very bizarre. And the investigation continues right now. Montgomery is the only person charged. Whether or not we see other charges is still not known at this hour.

NGUYEN: A lot of questions still to be answered. Michelle Rooney, of KNBC, we thank you for that this morning.

ROONEY: Thank you.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

NGUYEN: If new evidence is introduced in the Michael Jackson case, what will it do to the pop star's defense? We'll ask our legal eagles when CNN SATURDAY MORNING returns.

HARRIS: But first, as we sent out our cameras this week to ask you how much you plan on spending for Christmas this year.

NGUYEN: Too much.

HARRIS: Yes. And what is your total debt. Here's what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just spent a lot of money on something, maybe $500.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $500, total? For everybody?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, maybe so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you don't plan ongoing into debt this year?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, definitely not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably around $500, $600.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, in terms of your debt. What do you think is your total debt? Everything you owe, school loans, house, car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $150,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Here's a look now at our top stories.

A California woman is pleading for the life of her ex-husband. Roy Hallums was one of five people kidnapped six weeks ago in Baghdad. He hasn't been heard from since. Hallums is a contractor for a Saudi company. A Kansas woman has been charged with a kidnapping resulting death. Police say she took an eight-month-old baby from her mother's womb. The baby girl was found Friday, apparently in good health.

The FDA is advising doctors to consider alternatives to popular painkiller Celebrex. This comes after the drug maker, Pfizer, said a new study Celebrex can cause an increased risk of heart problems.

Mall traffic gets a slight break every year from people who choose to do their Christmas shopping on line.

Listen up, you last-minute shoppers!

NGUYEN: That's me.

HARRIS: I'm scolding myself here. It's not too late for you to be let in on the Internet and let the Internet be your Santa's helper. The worldwide web, a procrastinator's friend, last minute shopping on the Internet, tomorrow morning on "Best of the Web", 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

NGUYEN: The attorney for Michael Jackson asked to have the child molestation charges against him dismissed. He claims prosecutors spend more time on the singer than on capital murder cases. So far more than 100 search warrants have been served.

Also this morning, a judge says he will not stop wearing a robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front. Alabama's Covington County Judge Ashley McCaffin (ph) says the Commandments represent the truth.

Now a lawyer filed a motion objecting to the robe, in a case before that same judge. Two cases on the docket this morning. Let's get right to the give-and-take over these cases. Former Texas prosecutor Nelda Blair joins us from San Antonio today. And civil liberties attorney Lida Rodriguez-Taseff is at her usual post in our Miami bureau.

Good morning, ladies.

NELDA BLAIR, FMR. TEXAS PROSECUTOR: Good morning.

LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Nelda, let start with you. Prosecutors want to introduce evidence in this Michael Jackson case that say that he committed sexual crimes over the years. Now this evidence, how can they admit it this -- first of all what evidence are we talking about and how can they admit it if he was never charged in these cases?

BLAIR: What we're talking about is evidence he's been accused of sexually molesting other young boys. We call it propensity evidence. In California it's sometimes admissible.

It shows a jury that if a person could have done these things in the past has a tendency to do it over and over and over that perhaps he's also guilty of what he's charged with currently, which is molestation of a young boy.

Whether the judge is going to let this in, we don't know. But in California, it is good evidence and the prosecutors, if they can use it, I think it could help their case tremendously.

NGUYEN: Lida, should the judge let it in?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Absolutely not. For three centuries, we have kept propensity evidence out of the courtroom.

In California in 1995, the California legislature passed this kooky law following a federal law that was passed in 1994, allowing propensity evidence to be admitted in sexual abuse cases.

The interesting thing here, though, is what you pointed out, Betty, is he's never been charged with these crimes. When the prosecution wants to put on evidence in the Jackson case that says he did it before, he did it again. How can they prove that he did it before? You're going to end up with a trial within a trial where the prosecution is going to have to put on evidence that he did it before. This is going to become an absolute circus. I very much doubt the judge will admit it. Even in kooky California, this would be unacceptable.

NGUYEN: OK, but what if the judge does let it in? Does this destroy the defense's case, Nelda.

BLAIR: Absolutely. It harms it greatly. Remember, the reason Jackson has never been charged is because he paid millions, millions of dollars to these at least two families, not to pursue the charges against him. The fact that he hasn't been charged does not mean that he's innocent. If the prosecution can use that at all, it will definitely hurt the defense's case, no question about it. Right now all they have is the word of a little boy. If they can get more evidence, it will help them.

NGUYEN: Let's move on quickly. Debbie Rowe, Jackson's ex-wife, she has been subpoenaed to testify. She's the mother of two of Jackson's children. What is she going to say in this case, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: She wants to kick up the dirt. This is a woman, let's not forget, that is trying to get custody of her children by arguing Jackson is an unfit father. The prosecution is taking full advantage of the fact this woman is looking for money and looking for her kids back.

They're looking for an opportunity to use her to provide them with al sorts of nasty, sordid evidence about Jackson and about his habits with children.

BLAIR: Now, Lida, isn't is it just possible that she knows a lot of things having been in the unique position of being his wife, being around him when he's around her children and other children? She has an obligation to sit on that stand, tell the truth, and to help the prosecution, if she knows evidence that's helpful to them. There's nothing more than that and nothing wrong with that. NGUYEN: Quickly before we move onto the robe case with the judge in Alabama, there have been over 100 search warrants in this Michael Jackson case. Is it simply because Michael Jackson is a celebrity? Are folks being unfair because he is a celebrity, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Absolutely. Not just because he's a celebrity, but you have a prosecutor who has a vendetta, who is out to get Michael Jackson, because he didn't get him before.

Yes, he's using his power as a prosecutor and using California tax money to prosecute this case.

BLAIR: Not so. They're in the limelight, the spotlight, being viewed under a microscope by all the nation. And therefore, they're very careful. I think they're doing a very good job.

NGUYEN: Let's move on to the south Alabama case where the judge is wearing the robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on it. Is he wrong, in this case, Lida?

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course, he's wrong. This is a case about man who is on trial. This is a criminal defendant and every criminal defendant who appears before him. These are people who are on trial who have and deserve to have the law applied. Not the law that I believe in as a religious person, but the law that the people have voted on.

The Ten Commandments are not the law of the land. The law of the land is the penal code. What's happening here is he's passing judgment on these defendants and he's using his post to get out his own political message. And he can't do that, especially in a criminal case.

NGUYEN: Nelda?

BLAIR: Spoken like a desperate defense attorney.

(LAUGHTER)

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Oh, vicious.

BLAIR: This lawyer has no better argument in his case than he's going to appeal because of what the judge was wearing. What if he had on a Satan suit? It doesn't matter what the judge wears. What matters is how good this man's case is with and how well he argues it, not what the judge has on.

NGUYEN: But Nelda, will that robe cause jurors to be swayed one way or the other?

BLAIR: No, no, absolutely not. I mean, what if the judge was a cross dresser? It could be anything. It does not matter what the person sitting on the bench wears. What matters is the argument.

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course, it does. Nelda, you know it does. It also matters what the defendant is made to wear, as you know. In cases where defendants have been brought into court wearing shackles, the courts has repeatedly says it matters what the defendant wears.

BLAIR: Totally different.

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Of course it matters what the judge wears. If he wars a shirt that says, I hate all DUI defendants, do you think the jury is going to be swayed?

BLAIR: What I think...

(CROSS TALK)

RODRIGUEZ-TASSEF: Go ahead.

BLAIR: What I think is this defense lawyer is a whiner. He needs to get on with is case.

NGUYEN: We have got to leave it there, Ladies. As always, good battle between you two. We'll see you next weekend, Nelda and Lida.

HARRIS: That is some good stuff.

All right. It won't be out in time for Christmas giving but Amber Frey has signed a book deal. In case it slipped your mind, Frey was Scott Peterson's mistress. Her publisher promises a chilling...

What am I listening to, here?

NGUYEN: The Von Trapp children. That's a totally different segment.

HARRIS: Should I -- all right.

Peterson has been sentenced to die for the death of his wife Laci and their unborn son. Frey's memoir is set to go on sale January 4.

NGUYEN: All right. Now, here we go.

CHILDREN SINGING: When the dog bites, when the bee stings, when I'm feeling sad, I simply remember my favorite things and then I don't feel so sad.

NGUYEN: Yes, you've heard the hit musical and the movie, "Sound of Music", right? Now meet the great-grandchildren of Captain Von Trapp. They have a new Christmas album out. And will join us live. Don't they sound great?

HARRIS: Sounds good.

NGUYEN: First, Elizabeth Cohen joins us with a preview of today's "House Call."

Hi, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi.

Coming up in just a few minutes, we're going to talk to experts who will take your questions on yesterday's big news about Celebrex. Send us your e-mail questions about Celebrex fears at houseCall@cnn.com. That's coming up after the break.

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