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CNN Saturday Morning News

Major Earthquake Hits Pakistan, India, Afghanistan; Bill Nye Discusses Plate Tectonics; Pakistani Prime Minister Speaks

Aired October 08, 2005 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, as darkness falls in Pakistan, that country's government fears thousands may be dead, following a massive earthquake that registered 7.6 on the Richter scale. The quake hit approximately nine-and-a-half hours ago. Its epicenter near Islamabad. After shocks are still rippling through the area. We'll have much or on this in a live report in just a minute.
But in the meantime in Central America a natural disaster of another sort -- mud slides. Guatemalan rescue crews are searching for survivors buried under a massive mudslide more than two miles long. Days of flooding and rain have killed at least 370 people in Central America and southern Mexico. In Guatemala 30,00 evacuees are being housed in temporary shelters.

An urgent search is underway in Cincinnati, Ohio, police say this man -- take a look -- shown on surveillance camera may have kidnapped one or even two children outside a post office and driven off with them in the trunk of his car. Postal workers say they saw him put a screaming young girl into his trunk and police have since issued an Amber Alert.

The Associated Press reports this morning that Senior Presidential Aide Karl Rove told President Bush and others two years ago that he did not leak the identity of a covert CIA agent. That was a few months after the agent's name came out in the press. Rove is expected to testify for a fourth time before a grand jury investigating the outing of Agent Valerie Plame.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everyone. From the CNN Center in Atlanta I'm Tony Harris, it is 9:0 a.m. Eastern and 6:00 p.m. in Pakistan. This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

NGUYEN: Good morning, I'm Betty Nguyen. We want to thank you for starting your day with us.

HARRIS: And to our top story now. Pakistan's president is calling for calm in light of a massive earthquake. Its aftershock still rumbling. Local experts are calling it the strongest quake to hit the area in the last 100 years. The trembler struck a little more than nine hours ago. It was 60 miles northeast of Islamabad. Joining us from the city is Daniel Kemp on the phone. He is the Islamabad deputy bureau chief for the French news agency AFP and good morning to you.

DANIEL KEMP, AFP ISLAMABAD DEPUTY BUREAU CHIEF (via telephone): Good morning. HARRIS: Well, let's get an update. We've been talking throughout the morning and give us a sense of where we are now. I guess about 6:00 in the evening in Islamabad.

KEMP: That's right. Rescue workers obviously is well underway, although the -- it's getting very dark here now, and it's going to be difficult. As we've gone through the day the death toll has kept rising and rising and we now are told that the confirmed death toll in Pakistan, India and Afghanistan is over a thousand and that the death toll in Pakistan alone is likely to run into thousands. So it's still a developing situation. I think the Pakistani authorities have put a lot on their plate on the moment.

HARRIS: OK Danny, this is an earthquake that struck correct me here at 8:50 Islamabad time, in the morning?

KEMP: That's right. Most, a lot of people in Islamabad, particularly across Pakistan as well were still in bed when the earthquake struck. We've had witnesses telling us how they were shaken out of bed or awakened by the terrible shaking and the rumbling noise of the earthquake and, you know that's exactly what we experienced as well. We were woken up by the bed shaking and the whole -- the to see the trees wobbling and just ran outside and tried to get to a safe place.

HARRIS: And Danny, I guess what I'm trying to get at. Is there a sense that officials on the ground, people on the ground there have a sense, having worked throughout the day how wide a path of destruction we're talking about is there a sense of this devastation damage happening, boundaries yet?

KEMP: Yes I mean I think the area that they're really looking at is something of the worst damage. It's an area in Pakistani- controlled Kashmir quite close to India. The area is being completely cut off by road and the phone lines are all down. We've been almost impossible to get through to the area, which needs us to fear that there are very severe casualties there.

We've been told that by relief officials who are close to the operation, but we have been told there are at least 500 deaths in Pakistan's northwest frontier province borders Afghanistan. So we're talking about a big area in northern Pakistan that's been badly effective.

HARRIS: Danny do you have a sense or have you witnessed anything resembling a coordinated rescue effort underway, say with the military, maybe some of the non-governmental organizations that are in the area?

KEMP: Yes. I mean, the military of Pakistan has a large army and it really seems to be running the rescue efforts here. It has resources in a lot of areas. It's has a lot of military helicopters that are particularly reaching these isolated villages where all other transport can't get at the moment. So we are seeing a lot of coordinated efforts, but obviously in the immediate aftermath we've had reports of people clawing at the rubble of buildings with their bare hands just to get the people in the minutes after the quake struck.

HARRIS: And is this a situation where we're probably looking at, as we look at folks digging through the rubble. Are we talking on the ground, makeshift morgues and that sorting of thing just sort of to contain the bodies and I guess as many emergency vehicles that can get through that area?

KEMP: I think so. I mean again in Islamabad where we had an entire block of flat collapsed like a pack of cards and there were a number of people dead, many, and many injured and trapped. I think there we have makeshift morgues and also people that have helped set up in the local park. It's really hard to tell because there's really just no access there.

HARRIS: Danny Kemp. Danny thanks for being with us throughout the morning and we'll be checking back with you throughout the day, I'm sure.

NGUYEN: Well as you just heard, it is a dire situation in the Asian subcontinent where the sun is setting on what's left of a massive earthquake. It registered a magnitude of 7.6 with after shocks almost as powerful as the initial quake. Raphael Sindaye from OXFAM, which is a relief organization, joins us now from Islamabad, Pakistan with the latest this morning.

Before we get to what you're doing to help out in the region tell me what you're seeing right now on the ground there.

RAPHAEL SINDAYE, OXFAM: The armed forces are launching massive relief operations -- .

NGUYEN: Rafael are you with us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half a dozen strong aftershocks.

NGUYEN: Rafael, are you with us?

Obviously, we have lost Raphael Sindaye with OXFAM, which is a relief organization on the ground there in Islamabad. They're helping to assist with the devastation there; people trying to reach loved ones who could be trapped in the rubble. We are looking at right now almost 400 people reported dead. That number is expected to rise of course. There is a lot of work to be done, we'll be checking in with him if we can get him back on the phone.

Also the region where the quake struck has seen its share of deadly shakers in the past. What is it about the terrain that makes it so quake prone? Well for that we want to turn it now over to CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano to answer these questions. Rob how do you begin to answer that?

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well Betty first I guess you got to think back to you know your the high school physics class or high school geology or geography class, and think about India, think about the Himalayas, those mountains, the largest mountains in the world that all has something to do with what's happening beneath the surface here in Pakistan and over in India and to the north in China.

I want to show you specifically and we'll zoom in a little bit and give you an idea of the topography using our Google earth map. We are setting up wide right now, just to give you an idea where the Himalayas are. They are right in through here, so here's India and basically in order for the Himalayas, the Indian plates for millions of years have absolutely slammed into the, Eurasian plates. So that is the reason we the Himalayas.

Let's zoom into Pakistan. You don't think about really Pakistan with tall mountains, but sure enough in the northern part of Pakistan up through here that is part of the Himalayas. As a matter of fact right about there, one of the tallest peaks in the Himalayas would be Keitu. If you're a skier or a climber you know all about that. It is right up there with Mt. Everest.

All right. So let's talk more about the topography of Pakistan. This area right here is a desert. The main river sliding right through here and then sliding the map just a little bit we'll give you an idea of where exactly the center of the quake was. Here is Islamabad. About 60 miles -- maybe that's an exaggeration, of 60 miles to the north of Islamabad, so a major city.

That's how close this original earthquake was with the magnitude 7.6 that happened around midnight Eastern Time last night. The death of which is 10 kilometers below the surface or about 6.2 miles below the surface. There have been a number of aftershocks since then and the latest of which came at 6:48 Eastern Time so just a couple of hours ago.

And then aftershock as Tony and Betty mentioned was 6.3 magnitudes. So even the aftershock are very strong, and there probably will be very several more. So just basically, right in through here is a fault that kind of mirrors where that Indian plates slams into the Eurasian plate and it is probably Betty and Tony the most violent geological area on earth.

When you think of how big the Himalayas are. And obviously that topography and that weakness go down underneath the ground. They do have earthquakes as frequent as California, but they can have earthquakes that are just as deadly, 1935 and 1974 come to mind as far as Pakistani earthquakes. So this one may very well go down in the history books.

NGUYEN: Definitely the are saying it's the worst in at least a hundred years and just a footnote here on what you mentioned. Not only were there 6.3 aftershocks, but there were four other aftershocks as well, all them at 5.4 or above. So this area is just getting rocked not only with the initial quake, but all of the aftershocks and a little bit more about Pakistan itself because the epicenter was near Islamabad, about 60 miles northeast of Islamabad.

Pakistan is essentially a little less then twice the size of California. It has 162 million people living there. There are a lot of people affected and the quake has done a lot of damage especially in the villages and the northern area, as what we are being told. But as of right now we understand there were 394 people dead, but unfortunately we do expect that death toll to rise.

HARRIS: We do and I think I'm hearing over my shoulder that we are getting shortly we'll have a new death toll number.

We continue to follow the story out of central Asia this morning. The massive quake and after shocks that have rocked the region. We'll of course bring you updates as we get them.

NGUYEN: Also you probably remember the theory E=MC squared right? Well but did you know that we use it all the time in everyday life? We will tell you how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And welcome back everyone to CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Tony Harris. Here's a quick check of the top stories in case you are just joining us.

A magnitude 6.3 aftershock has rippled through Pakistan after a massive earthquake struck near Islamabad. Hundreds are confirmed dead from the 7.6 quakes and Pakistan leaders fear the toll could climb into the thousands. Search and rescue efforts will be hampered as the sun sets this hour.

Indonesian police are still-hunting the suspected mastermind of last Saturday's suicide bombing attacks in Bali. They've dropped thousands of photos of two suspects over an area where one of them nearly escaped.

Lance Armstrong is getting the attention of the International Olympic Committee. President Jacques Roga is calling for an independent probe of the seventh time Tour De France winner. A French paper accused Armstrong of using a performance-enhancing drug in the past.

NGUYEN: Well, E = MC squared. We've heard of that, right? It's one of the things you haven't let behind from the physics class in high school. But believe it or not Albert Einstein's theory of relativity has stayed with you in pretty much everything you do. We are spending special attention to that equation know as E=MC squared because it just turned 100 years old. And who better to give us a refresher course than Bill Nye the science guy. He joins us this morning to talk about that.

But first of all, Mr. Science guy, I want to talk to you about this earthquake. Of course, that is in the news right now. With the death toll I'm just being told, has risen to 746 people who have perished in the quake so far. Give us a refresher course on plate tectonics and how earthquakes come about.

BILL NYE, "THE SCIENCE GUY": Well, Rob was talking about this. There was a recent discovery in human terms that the earth a surface is broken up into these enormous plates called tectonic plates, tectonic sort of a Greek word that means build or builder. So the earth is built of these enormous slabs of rock that slide around and bump into each other. Now when an enormous slab nudges another enormous slab -

NGUYEN: And we are looking at those plates right now as you are talking about it.

NYE: Yes so it is the -- what people call the Indian plate slamming into the Eurasian plate and as Rob said earlier that's where you get the Himalayas.

NGUYEN: But why is there so much action in that area? Why that particular area?

NYE: Well it is at the seam. It is where on plate is bumping into the other. You know it is fine to sit in the car but if you are sitting on the bumper that is where you really experience ...

NGUYEN: But there are other areas where these plates come together and you don't see as much. I mean ...

NYE: Well California --

NGUYEN: ... is known for many earthquakes.

NYE: Yes California and in Oceania (ph) and places like those, there are earthquakes quite often. Wherever you see volcanoes, traditionally that's getting to be pretty near within a few hundred nautical miles of the edge of a plate.

Now the thing is that people didn't been tectonic plates until quite recently, until really World War II people were probing the ocean floor to look for submarines and they discovered these mid-ocean mountains and they realized that the earth has this giant seam like the stitches on a baseball that run all over it.

So the collective memory or the tribal memory of people in Pakistan is such that a hundred years ago or so there was an earthquake about this big. But in the meantime all these buildings were built that maybe just looking at your video here and I'm not there and I'm not an expert on the blue prints of these buildings. But it looks like they've not very earthquake, they are not durable in an earthquake.

NGUYEN: Well the interesting thing as we look at an overall view, an aerial view you will see some buildings like that one right there that is still standing but those who aren't exactly made to handle such force as you see are just in a ruble right now.

NYE: As we say earthquakes don't kill people. Buildings kill people. So we have to take steps to make structures that can withstand earthquakes. In this part of the world it is going to be a lot of trouble for a long time. You said it was a 7.6 to start with.

NGUYEN: Seven point six to start with.

NYE: That's enormous.

NGUYEN: Here's the thing though and I want to know a little bit more about the aftershocks, too, because there were four aftershocks which was 5.4 magnitude or higher and the largest aftershock was a 6.3. Are these going to continue throughout the day?

NYE: Usually they do because image the plates being shaped like a wedge. So one plate slams into the other, rides up a little bit when then it settles back down or maybe it folds a little bit and then unsprings and these motions jiggle and shake themselves out for hours and hours and days and days.

There's nothing that's we can do as humans to stop earthquakes. These are plates on top of the earth surface jostling around. What we have to do is be ready. And I encourage everyone who lives in an earthquake join for example in the United States and Canada and Mexico to carry stuff in your car.

NGUYEN: Right.

NYE: So that you can ...

NGUYEN: Just to be prepared.

NYE: Now this doesn't help people in Pakistan. We have to get over there and help people out.

NGUYEN: Well we want to get an update on Pakistan. So I'm going to have to cut you short Bill Nye.

NYE: Sure.

NGUYEN: I'm sorry about that. And we really wanted you to get to the E=MC squared theory and how that applies to everyday life. If we have some time throughout the morning we'll try to get back with you. But of course we appreciate your insight.

NYE: It's a big story. I understand.

NGUYEN: It is a big story and we use it in everyday life. The E=MC squared.

NYE: No, they ...

NGUYEN: Right now the most pressing story is the earthquake and we'll have to get some more information on that, but thank you for your time. Tony.

HARRIS: Well Betty, we have Pakistan's prime minister on the line with us. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is with us from Islamabad. Mr. Prime minister are you there?

SHAUKAT AZIZ, PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: I'm there, yes.

HARRIS: OK I just wanted to get a sense from you of what you've seen on the ground, in your country throughout the course of this day.

AZIZ: Well, as you know, we had a severe earthquake this morning, 7.6 on the Richter scale and the aftershocks are still continuing. There is widespread damage in the northern parts of Pakistan, which is hilly, and snow bound in the winter. We are getting reports of lots of casualties.

Many houses have collapsed and relief workers started. The government and the various arms of the government have all jelled together. We move very fast. We've been at it since morning. The government, the armed forces and the police, everybody is evacuating people.

The casualties in the hundreds and may cross into the thousands. So we will have a better idea in the next 24 hours. I have toured the area and so has the president and we have seen aerial views of what's going on. This is a severe earthquake and in the city of Islamabad where I'm speaking to you from, one apartment building collapsed. We have several here.

One collapsed and that is now being -- they're evacuating people from there and there are people stuck in the rubble. It's a major catastrophe, but we're hanging in there and relief effort started minutes after the incident happened. I'm very pleased with the way everybody has jelled together.

HARRIS: Mr. Prime Minister do you expect that rescue efforts will continue into the night? I understand that the sun is setting in your country.

AZIZ: The sun has set and the relief efforts will continue all night. The major damage is the area of Kashmir and in the northern parts of Pakistan.

HARRIS: OK so Mr. Prime Minister when you say that the major damage is in that area the Pakistan-controlled area of Kashmir. Give us a sense, if you've had buildings collapsing in Islamabad where you are, how much worse is the situation in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir?

AZIZ: Well, in Kashmir there are no high-rises. Maximum you have two-story houses or buildings, but many of them have collapsed and there are hundreds of causalities and then in the villages a lot of people have houses made of mud brick and sort of feelings, so they have collapsed. And many children in school because school has to start early in the morning, roofs of school fell down so they are being adjourned in time -- some have even expired.

So it is a totally different scene there of course, the logistics are not as good as (INAUDIBLE). The roads are closed in many places, they are using choppers and we have used all the sources at our dispose. So the higher casualty figures will come from Kashmir.

HARRIS: How concerned are you, Mr. Prime Minister about the fact that you're still experiencing aftershocks at a time when a lot of the people in these areas are trying desperately to find loved ones, recover loved ones and rescue the folks that are injured?

AZIZ: Well it's a traumatic experience for people because this trauma continues. And we have provided for a lot of alternate housing. Luckily, the weather is not that cold yet so people are living in tents, sleeping bags, blankets, water, food and a lot of help is coming from all over the country and over seas also. The government has moved quickly and we hope that we can minimize the losses.

HARRIS: Has the government received any indication from the American military that it is standing by willing to offer assistance?

AZIZ: No, I think you haven't and there's no requirement for it also. Pakistan's military army is very well equipped. It's a first class professional army and they're very capable of coping with it. I think we appreciate all of the help, but I think army will be able to take care along with the local administration.

HARRIS: Let me just follow up with this, we are getting a note that the American military is offering assistance to your army providing supplies and assistance and also, I understand, helicopters. Can you verify whether or not that offer has been expended?

AZIZ: No as of 30 minutes ago we have not received the offer, but if it comes we'll take a look at that time. We've received offers from any other countries. We have not received offers from the United States yet.

HARRIS: And Mr. Prime Minister give us the latest information that you have and I understand these numbers are still changing and perhaps the number you're about to give us is a conservative number. What is the current death toll, as you know it to be at this moment?

AZIZ: Well I would say it's in the hundreds. I cannot give you an exact number because I want to give you accurate numbers.

HARRIS: Sure.

AZIZ: And I think it the go into the thousands. It was cross a thousand.

HARRIS: And we were just getting word of another aftershock, a 5.3 as we take a look at some aerials of wow of some of the devastation we are seeing land erosion, I'm not going to suggest mudslides, but we are certainly seeing land erosion in brand new pictures that are coming to us right now. And we just received word of a 5.9 after shock. Is that something that you have felt where you are?

AZIZ: Just now, I haven't felt anything. Thirty minutes ago we felt something.

HARRIS: You felt an aftershock thirty minutes ago.

AZIZ: Oh, yes. Yes.

HARRIS: OK.

AZIZ: We have a lot of mudslides, which are blocking local roads.

HARRIS: OK.

AZIZ: And we're moving all of the equipment.

HARRIS: Give me a sense of what the rest of this evening is going to be like for you, President Musharraf and the other officials of your country?

AZIZ: Yes, President Musharraf and I were together. We took an aerial view of this high rise which you may have seen on television, and then we went and visited, we walked through the rubble, we saw the relief efforts and we are coordinating all the relief efforts from the Prime Ministers office and we have a 24 x 7 set up here. And we have a permanent relief agency, which is part of my office, which is working naturally.

We are at the moment, just so you know, we're dispatching lots of trucks to the affected areas, full of tents and blankets and the phones are ringing and people want to know about their loved ones from overseas, too, so we are trying to coop.

HARRIS: But you are going to have a difficult time, I think you mentioned that a few moments ago, you are going to have a difficult time getting supplies into those areas. The most effected areas.

AZIZ: Most are (ph) using choppers now. Where the roads are blocked there will be choppered in and seems to be the only logical way to do that now.

but in the other parts of northern Pakistan the roads are open. The earthquake also took place, so there we had are dispatching the trucks right now.

HARRIS: Mr. Prime Minister I have to ask you this is a region of the world as we're learning that is prone to earthquakes and do you feel that because everyone knows that you're prone to this and you're living through that that you are particularly prepared to handle a situation like this or is there any way, really to prepare for an earthquake of this magnitude?

AZIZ: Well, as I said, disaster relief agencies part of the prime minister's office and they're pretty equipped and then our army and police are very well organized. So, you know, it's always difficult to say one is prepared for something you can't predict, but under the circumstances we are doing the best we can. It's a traumatic experience for the people who have gone through this. And psychologically it is a difficult time for most Pakistanis.

HARRIS: OK. Thank you for your time. Pakistan's Prime Minister Aziz with us this morning from Islamabad. A massive earthquake, 7.6 at 8:50 this morning in Pakistan and throughout the day aftershock after aftershock.

NGUYEN: So far we counted six aftershocks that have crossed the wire. The latest one, a 5.9 on the Richter scale and as we have been mentioning, so far the death toll 746 people but that is expected to rise into the thousands. Of course, we're going to keep you up to date with this. Don't go anywhere. CNN has continuing coverage.

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