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CNN Saturday Morning News

News; International

Aired October 08, 2005 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, strong aftershocks follow a major earthquake in South Asia. That quake, measuring 7.6, jolted Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan. Pakistani government officials say the death toll could reach the thousands. Right now, we're hearing it as at 746 so far. Homes, schools, and businesses, they are destroyed, and as it becomes night there, relief operations are being hampered.
In other news, former president George Bush makes three stops today on his post-hurricane tour. He flies through the Alabama Gulf Coast this morning, then to Mississippi this afternoon, and wraps up the day in Louisiana. Now, the death toll in the four-state hurricane zone rises to 1,239.

And in sports, the Chicago White Sox beat Boston, yes, beat Boston 5 to 3 to sweep the defending World Series champs out of the playoffs. It is the first time the White Sox have won a post-season series since 1917. Chicago will play either the New York Yankees or the Los Angeles Angels in the American League championship series. The Angels beat the Yankees 11 to 7 last night.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And as we continue with our coverage of the massive earthquake in Pakistan, take a look at this, new video in to CNN. There is the figure there on your screen of the most recent death toll numbers, 746 dead in Pakistan, in India, and Afghanistan.

We just heard from the prime minister, Prime Minister Aziz of Pakistan. As you can see here, mudslides are a major problem in Pakistan right now, the prime minister telling us that most of the deaths and injuries are going to come from the Pakistan-controlled area of Kashmir, where the homes there are not built to withstand anything like they're being asked to weather right now.

A 7.6 earthquake right now has devastated that community in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. But we can also tell you from our reporting this morning that the Indian side, India, India-controlled Kashmir, is also an area that has been heavily damaged by this aftershock, 5.3, it's 5.9 in the last half-hour or so. Earlier in the morning, another aftershock of 6.3. The main earthquake, 7.6, it struck in Pakistan at about -- well, Betty, what was it, about at 8:50 a.m. in Pakistan.

NGUYEN: And the good thing is, I guess, in all of this, though, is, yes, it happened during the day, so people had a lot of time to try to get into the areas and get the people out of the rubble that just really collapsed around them. That is the good news.

But the bad news right now is that night has fallen on this area, but rescue operations continue.

We want to get an update on the situation. Let's go now to CNN producer John Raedler with the latest on what he is seeing where he is. What can you tell us?

JOHN RAEDLER, CNN PRODUCER (on phone): Well, Betty, I'm calling in from New Delhi, the Indian capital. New Delhi has survived this earthquake with little more than just a severe shudder and shake on what was Saturday morning local time. There is no significant damage reported here, no significant casualties.

But to our north, of course, there is a much more grave disaster unfolding. As you pointed out, night has fallen over the affected area now, the South Asian subcontinent. That is making search, rescue, and recovery efforts just that much harder.

Most of the worst-hit areas are in remote areas. Probably the worst hit of the big cities has been Islamabad. And the difficulty now is trying to get earth-moving equipment to these small, remote areas. They don't have any such equipment, or very little of it, in their towns, their villages and communities.

And that's going to take time, and that is simply going stretch out the ordeal, because these poor people who survived the first of the quakes, the 7.6 initial quake, they've now had to endure three, four, five aftershocks, and some of those have been of a sizable magnitude.

And these people, of course, they have buildings, very often homes that, in most cases, very little more than mud shacks, some of them. They are built from very basic materials. They are not well structured. And so even if their buildings, their homes survived the initial quake, many of them were no doubt damaged and might not survive the subsequent aftershocks.

And that has caused people, our CNN stringer in Srinegar, the summer capital of Indian-occupied Kashmir, he's been able to get through to us a couple of times, and he reports that with every one of these aftershocks, people just pour out into the street. They pour out into open spaces, into paddocks, getting as far away from buildings as they can.

And he ...

NGUYEN: Well, that's something I wanted to ask you, because we're looking at pictures right now. They're carrying people to areas where they can get some medical help. But in an earlier shot, people were just gathered around in a open field, under a tree, which leads me to believe that they're fearful that these aftershocks, if they go back into their homes, those homes will collapse on top of them.

RAEDLER: Yes, that is exactly right. We are familiar with earthquakes in this region. Most people would be aware of the aftershocks and the effects that they can have. And yes, there is a great deal of fear, and people are trying to get as far away from manmade structures as they possibly can, because they know in the past they have seen those succumb to, if not initial earthquakes, then to the aftershocks.

NGUYEN: Have you felt any of these aftershocks? Because, as you mentioned, there was one that was 6.3, which is a sizable earthquake in itself. But then after that, there are ones that ranged from 5.4 to 5.9. We've counted six aftershocks so far that have crossed the wires.

RAEDLER: I have not felt any of the aftershocks in New Delhi. Bear in mind, we seem to be somewhat on the southern rim of New Delhi, the southern rim of the first initial quake. It's possible some others in New Delhi might have felt aftershocks, but they would have been very mild, and small compared to the effects here that I'm sure most people in the city of 14 (ph) million people felt with the initial quake.

That was certainly unmistakably an earthquake. It shook buildings, things rattled on table tops, on desktops, lights and so forth, plates. Those things rattled. And it lasted for what seemed like a long time, probably about 20 or 30 seconds. But we have not felt anything like that or experienced anything like that since the initial jolts.

NGUYEN: John, talk to me a little bit about these mudslides. Because it's one thing for a building to collapse, but we were just looking at pictures of entire sides of a large area that had just collapsed, the mud just sliding all the way down. That obviously has to be a big concern.

RAEDLER: Yes, Betty, any structure here, or certainly most of the structures are built very often any with basic materials, they are perhaps not built with the most modern trends in architecture. They are probably not built with any reinforcement to withstand earthquakes.

So pretty much every building in this affected area would be a candidate for damage. And certainly, in the -- close to the epicenter of this, they would all be candidates for significant damage. And then, as we've talked about, it's not only the damage from the initial shock, it's the cumulative effect of all the damage from the initial shock, and then the aftershocks.

NGUYEN: But also, these mudslides have to be causing a problem for rescue efforts. They've knocked out roads, so when people are trying to get to these remote areas, many of them are the ones that are the most heavily damaged, these northern villages, correct?

RAEDLER: Yes, exactly. That's going to be a big problem, and that is likely to continue and might even worsen with the aftershocks. There's no doubt a large amount of land and mud that has been shaken loose and is perhaps precariously placed and could be shaken down now and cut off more roads. And keep in mind that a lot of these roads are the only -- there might be a single road that is the only access to a particular district or a particular place. And certainly, for the next, say, nine or 10 hours that we have nightfall in this region, I expect there'll be very few military helicopters or planes able to do much in the affected area as well.

So all search, rescue, recovery efforts, I think, will dwindle significantly, except perhaps in the bigger cities that are affected, like Islamabad, for the next nine or 10 hours.

NGUYEN: And that's so hard to hear, with so many people in need of help right now. And obviously night is falling, that's hampering efforts. CNN producer John Raedler in New Delhi, we appreciate your time and your insight. And, of course, we are going to be coming back to you throughout the morning.

There is much more to come on the earthquake and the aftershocks that followed. As we know right now, there are 746 people dead in this earthquake that affected Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan.

Coming up, CNN's Tony Harris will be speaking with the U.S. Geological Survey about what's happened and what's to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We want to take a moment now and update you on our top story as we look at pictures in -- from Pakistan, mudslides, areas devastated, a major earthquake.

We need to talk about this in stages, actually. At first, there was the initial earthquake, that was of 7.6 magnitude. That struck, local time, 8:50 in the morning in Pakistan. And the epicenter was about 60 miles north-northeast of the capital city of Islamabad. And it is believed to have really devastated the Indian-controlled area as well as the Pakistani-controlled areas of Kashmir.

So it sounds like much of Kashmir has really been devastated by this earthquake. And then, Betty, we're talking about a series of aftershocks, as we've been learning throughout the day. Remember, the initial earthquake was at 8:50. It is, oh, 7:00?

NGUYEN: Nearing 7:00, yes.

HARRIS: Seven o'clock, coming up on 7:00 local time in the evening. The sun has set almost a couple of hours now, and the rescue efforts now are certainly going to be slowed by the fact that there is no daylight. But this is an area that has experienced a number of aftershocks throughout the day.

NGUYEN: We counted some six aftershocks, one ranging somewhere around the 5.3 magnitude scale, all of the way up to 6.3. So there have been a number of aftershocks, just walking an area where many people are trying to get in and rescue the folks who are already dealing with the first initial quake. So you see a number of tragedies on top of each other. As you look at these pictures, you see people have come out of their homes, and they're just huddling together in open areas, because many are still afraid of going back into their homes, feeling another aftershock, and that home collapsing upon them.

Now, here's the good news in all of this. We have seen that in some of the major areas where you see the high-rise buildings like this, many of them are still standing. The bad news is, there are several that have collapsed. But some of these buildings were built so that they could sustain a force of a magnitude 7.6 quake. But, needless to say, that doesn't help the folks who are trapped underneath that rubble.

HARRIS: Well, here's the thing, Betty. If you're trying to get to some of the areas in the north that you were just talking about a few moments ago, it is going to be very difficult. A lot of the roads in the area are just impassable right now. We're talking about debris, we're talking about mudslides in the area. Some of these roads have absolutely been washed out.

NGUYEN: Right.

HARRIS: So getting rescue teams into the area, getting the military into the area, getting... .

NGUYEN: And it's nighttime.

HARRIS: Some of these -- getting some of the folks from these non-governmental organizations, who do such good work at times like this, into the area to actually help these folks is going to be very, very difficult. We've heard reports that there are sort of these makeshift morgues springing up, where people who have died, perished in this are just, you know, they're just placing the bodies wherever they can, in just a makeshift morgue situation, until they can get emergency vehicles and other help into the area to move bodies and get folks who are injured to local hospitals.

NGUYEN: Yes, and speaking of that help, let's talk to Raphael Sindaye, now, from Oxfam, which is a relief organization. He joins us from Islamabad, Pakistan, to talk about what's being talked about on the ground there.

Raphael, I know the problem right now must be not only the aftershocks, but it's nighttime. How difficult is it for your group to get to the people in need?

RAPHAEL SINDAYE, OXFAM RELIEF AGENCY (on phone): It is very difficult indeed. There's all the reasons that you said about, but it's also the fact that it is -- we can't, and so inside, here in the north (ph) we're trying to (INAUDIBLE) on the ground (INAUDIBLE) we're working (INAUDIBLE) in those areas.

So Oxfam, for example, we have an office in Peshawar, and basically the team that is out in Kashmir helping to assist the situation is that team that is there, the team -- the other members of the team that we're sending from Islamabad will only be able to set off tomorrow morning.

NGUYEN: So where you are on the ground in Islamabad, tell me what you're seeing, what people are doing right now.

SINDAYE: Right now, in Islamabad, actually, the only area that was affected is this tower that collapsed completely. And the area is completely sealed back, sealed off. We are not allowed to access the area. But we having telephone reports from people that our staff know, and are saying that there are still a lot of people trapped into the collapsed buildings.

And the government is saying that they don't have equipment and skills to actually rescue those populations. So we'll see if they can find.

NGUYEN: So here's my question, though, quickly, though. Are you telling me that this building has collapsed, but they're not letting rescue crews go in?

SINDAYE: The NGOs are not allowed to get in, but the government military are the ones who trying to rescue people who are inside. And the place has been sealed off, yes.

NGUYEN: I see. OK, there's obviously a lot of work to be done, a lot of obstacles in the way. Raphael Sindaye, working for Oxfam, which is a relief organization over there. We wish you the best of luck. Hopefully, you can get to the people in need just as soon as possible. Thank you for your time.

SINDAYE: Thank you.

HARRIS: Six-forty-seven in the evening in Islamabad right now.

We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll talk to Waverly Person with the U.S. Geological Survey out of Golden, Colorado.

First a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: The story we've been covering all morning long for you here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, a major earthquake, 7.6 magnitude, and that, Betty, is just the initial quake. It struck in Pakistan, the epicenter about 60 miles north-northeast of the capital of Pakistan, Islamabad. But the earthquake was felt in India, of course in Pakistan, also in Afghanistan. The current death toll 746, but everyone is telling us, everyone we've talked to this morning, is that they expect...

NGUYEN: Including the prime minister of Pakistan.

HARRIS: ... exactly. Prime Minister Aziz. Everyone telling us that they expect this death toll to rise exponentially during the course of this day. It is, oh, just about 7:00 in the evening in Islamabad, nightfall there, which will hamper the efforts of rescuers and the army and everyone trying to get to some of those affected areas to rescue people.

NGUYEN: And that's one of the biggest issues right now. People are trapped. There are mudslides, many mudslides. We've seen video of that in the area, which is hampering efforts of relief crews to get to the folks who are trapped underneath the rubble. Many of the northern villages, we understand, received the most damage. We even got word that some of them have even been wiped out.

Of course, we're going to bring you those pictures and get that information when it comes in to us.

HARRIS: And Betty, Waverly Person is on the line with us from the U.S. Geological Survey out of Golden, Colorado.

And Waverly, good to talk to you this morning.

WAVERLY PERSON, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY (on phone): Good morning.

HARRIS: I have to ask you, we know in our souls that this is a huge earthquake, 7.6 magnitude. But can you quantify that for us?

PERSON: Yes, this is what we call a major earthquake, on the high end of the major earthquake, and one of the things about the earthquake, it's a shallow-focus earthquake (INAUDIBLE) beneath the earth's surface.

HARRIS: What does that mean?

PERSON: That means that it's no more than several miles below the surface of the earth. When you have an earthquake of this size in a populated area, the death tolls rise considerably. And now we're seeing, because of the shallowness of the earthquake, we're seeing so many aftershocks. There are aftershocks that we have located, maybe more than 10 earthquakes, that have been in the 5 range, and the largest has been a magnitude 6.2, 6.3.

So it's a lot of aftershocks going on, and we expect them to continue to go on, because of the size of the earthquake, and the earthquake being very shallow.

NGUYEN: Waverly, let me clarify just quickly. You mentioned six. Actually, I mentioned six that we counted aftershocks. You just said 10, is that correct?

PERSON: Yes. Some of them, they haven't come across yet, because there people are in here working them now.

NGUYEN: My goodness. Now, is this going to continue? And are they going to be tapering off? Are we going see those who aren't so strong?

PERSON: I think they will be continuing, because of the size of the earthquake, and because of the shallowness, and shallow earth, earthquakes produced a lot of aftershocks. And these far ranging aftershocks could continue on through today. And, of course, the aftershocks from the earthquake could be weeks, months, or even longer.

NGUYEN: Goodness.

HARRIS: Waverly, what place are we talking about here?

PERSON: Well, what really caused this earthquake is as the Indian plate moves northward, it has been subducted or pushed beneath the Eurasian plate.

HARRIS: Oh, I see.

PERSON: And so this area where this earthquake occurred is a highly seismic area of Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, and Kashmir, all of those areas in there.

HARRIS: OK.

PERSON: And so this a highly seismic area, and they have a lot of earthquakes. The last earthquake in this vicinity, which was somewhat north of this one, was back in 1974. That was a magnitude 6.2 that killed more than 5,800 people in the area.

HARRIS: OK, Waverly, I'm hoping that we can carry you over to the other side, to the top of the hour, but if we can't, thank you for your expertise, and thanks for taking the time to talk to us.

We will take a break and come back with more CNN SUNDAY MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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