Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Death Of A Senior al Qaeda Commander In Pakistan; Katrina Evacuees Prepare To Attend Town Hall Meeting With New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin; Debate Over "Tookie" Williams; Bodies Found May Be Those Of Murdered Kids; President Bush Wants Tougher Borders; Animals Rule Online

Aired December 03, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this hour we do have a significant development to tell you about in the war on terror.
We are learning that a senior al Qaeda leader has been killed in a blast in Pakistan.

So, what does this mean for the U.S.?

Those among many of the questions that we're going to be asking today.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

NGUYEN: But we want to welcome you to the show on this Saturday, December 3rd.

Good morning, everybody.

I'm Betty Nguyen.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris.

Let's get you caught up now with headlines now in the news.

North of Baghdad, 11 Iraqi soldiers have been killed in an apparent ambush by insurgents this morning. The attack happened in the Diyala Province. Ten soldiers are said to have died in the attack. An eleventh was taken hostage and later found dead. U.S. military officials have predicted an up tick of insurgent violence preceding Iraq's December 15th elections.

In the Ukraine, more tests are underway with the discovery of bird flu. According to the country's agriculture ministry, chickens and geese were found infected with the H-5 strain of the virus. It's unknown if the birds in question actually have the deadly H5N1 type, which researchers fear could cause a worldwide bird flu epidemic.

The 50-year anniversary of Rosa Parks' Montgomery bus boycott is being commemorated this morning in Atlanta. It was 50 years ago this week, yesterday, to be -- the 1st of December, as a matter of fact, that Parks took a stand against segregation by sitting down and refusing her bus seat to a white passenger.

Dignitaries expected to speak in Atlanta include Mayor Shirley Franklin and former Ambassador and civil rights activist Andrew Young.

NGUYEN: Well, we begin this morning with a developing story, with word out of Pakistan that Abu Hamza Rabia, a senior al Qaeda commander, has died. And there is some uncertainty about exactly how he died.

According to Pakistan's information minister, Rabia was building a bomb when it exploded. Now, that happened Wednesday in a tribal area of northern Pakistan which is near the Afghanistan border.

Pakistani officials who track al Qaeda operatives say Rabia's death is a big blow to the terror group. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf says he is 200 percent certain Rabia is, indeed, dead. Pakistani officials add that four people were killed along with Rabia in that explosion.

So, who exactly is Abu Hamza Rabia?

Well, according to U.S. intelligence officials, Hamza was an Egyptian citizen in his mid-30s and his death is a very significant development in the war on terror.

let's get the latest now.

CNN's national security correspondent David Ensor joins us by phone -- of course, David, we are learning so much.

What do you know about Hamza and how big of a fish is he?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, intelligence officials are celebrating this morning. This is being called a big deal, a very significant development, a significant blow against al Qaeda. Abu Hamza Rabia was the operations chief of al Qaeda. That means he was the heir to the job that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed had until he was caught, then Faraj al-Libbi had it until he was caught.

So this was the man they really wanted to get. He was the guy who, if there was going to be more terrorism against the United States, this would have been the operational planner.

Now, who got him? as you reported, it's being said by Pakistani officials that he died in an explosion from bomb materials. That could be true. But that explosion may have been caused, according to some reports, by a Hellfire missile fired from an unmanned CIA Predator drone.

Now, U.S. officials are saying nothing about that. They are not saying anything about the U.S. role, if any, in this attack. But I've talked to a number of knowledgeable analysts who say that reporting about the CIA Hellfire missile, that has the ring of truth to them. That sounds like probably how this went down -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, David, we also spoke with a journalist on the ground there in Pakistan who said that's what witnesses saw.

But I have to ask you, if -- say that was the case. Would the U.S. government have to work with Pakistan to make that happen?

ENSOR: There would have to be cooperation and there is close cooperation in the war on terrorism between Pakistan and the United States, yes. But it's a delicate matter. The United States is not popular in Pakistan. Cooperating with the United States is not popular either. So it may not be in President Musharraf's interests to acknowledge that he's allowing, if he is, allowing an attack like this from a CIA aircraft over his air space.

NGUYEN: Well, and it may explain why we are learning from Pakistani officials the official word from them is that it was an explosion at Hamza's house.

So we're trying to gather information on both sides and figure out exactly what, indeed, went down there.

But David, we appreciate your information.

ENSOR: A pleasure.

HARRIS: Arab news network Al Jazeera is broadcasting a new video that appears to show the four Western peace activists abducted in Iraq last week. And here's a quick look at the video, in which some of the hostages are shown eating. With the images come demands from the abductors that the Iraqi government free all prisoners in its jails or the hostages will be killed.

CNN is unable to independently authenticate the video or the accompanying statement.

NGUYEN: And be sure to join us tonight at 8:00 Eastern for our inside look into the world of terrorism. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor talks to those who have been on the front lines of the terror war years before 9/11. "CNN PRESENTS: Winning The War On Terror." That is tonight, 8:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

HARRIS: The New Orleans mayor is about to get an earful.

Ray Nagin is in Atlanta for a town hall meeting with former residents displaced by hurricane Katrina and Rita. He'll be on the firing line and could face some very tough questions from people who are angry and confused about the pace of recovery.

CNN's Renay San Miguel is live in downtown Atlanta with guests -- Renay, good morning to you.

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

And one thing that they won't be angry about is having to wait out in the cold. While we still have another hour before the town hall officially gets underway, they have allowed the folks to come inside. About 25 or 30 people are in the chapel here, the Martin Luther King Chapel.

And we do have some New Orleans residents here. We wanted to gauge the kinds of questions they were going to have for Mayor Ray Nagin and the other officials here.

I wanted to start off with Sykina Gaston.

Sykina, tell me what part of New Orleans were you living in before Katrina hit?

SYKINA GASTON, EVACUEE: I was living in eastern New Orleans, in Orleans Parish.

MIGUEL: Have you had a chance to go back and check out your home since then?

GASTON: I have gone back in about three weeks and my home was underwater. It had five feet of water.

MIGUEL: Tell me the kind of questions that you would have for Mayor Ray Nagin today.

GASTON: I would like to know more about the levee system. Have they made any decisions about are they going to start rebuilding? Because until they make that decision, then I can make a decision on what I need to do.

MIGUEL: Is there something that you are actually considering regarding whether or not you want to remain in New Orleans based on the kind of information you hear today?

GASTON: I really haven't really made a decision yet. I'm just waiting to get some answers today.

MIGUEL: But if you don't like the answers that you get, you would consider moving away from your hometown.

How would that make you feel?

GASTON: If I don't get the answers that I want to hear today, then I'm -- I have to make some decisions in reference to where I'm going to live and about employment, what I'm going to do.

MIGUEL: OK.

We want to move now to Deacon Melvin Jones with the Archdiocese of New Orleans.

You had two churches that were damaged by this.

What about the questions that you have regarding the status of New Orleans and the status of your parishioners?

DEACON MELVIN JONES, NEW ORLEANS ARCHDIOCESE: Renay, there were more than two churches. But the churches that I belong to, St. Jude and Our Lady's Odyssey, they were damaged, but not severely. I'm looking forward to getting back and serving the people there.

MIGUEL: What do you think needs to happen here? What kind of answers to you want to hear today from Mayor Nagin and the other officials?

JONES: I don't believe that the mayor could really give a lot of answers to a lot of the questions that a lot of the people have. I think that some of the answers will be questions that he probably really couldn't answer. Like, for instance, the president stood in front of the St. Louis Cathedral three days after the hurricane and said how the federal government was going to help us. And believe me, the federal government has done nothing.

And as a result of that, I think the mayor is kind of like put behind the eight ball, because the money is still in Washington. And, Renay, I think I hear and I feel like there is a movement on foot whereby the people of New Orleans are looking at doing a march on Washington to really bring out what's happening to us and to let Washington know that we need help.

MIGUEL: We certainly hope that both of you get your questions answered today and we wish both of you good luck and success with your futures.

Thanks so much for talking with us.

GASTON: Thank you very much.

MIGUEL: We do appreciate it.

GASTON: OK.

MIGUEL: This chapel here holds 1,500 to 2,000 people. We're already seeing more and more people coming in here. Who knows? We may, indeed, have a full house when things get going here at 12:00 p.m. Eastern time -- Tony, back to you.

HARRIS: OK, Renay.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

And that meeting is set to begin, as Renay just mentioned, in less than an hour from now. And we'll bring you some of it live right here on CNN.

NGUYEN: Well, take all the frustration and outrage of those displaced residents and add some shock to the mix. That best describes the emotional state of New Orleaneans who are returning to their flood battered homes for the first time this week. They live in the Lower Ninth Ward, ground zero when the city's levees broke.

Here's CNN's Daniel Sieberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You've never experienced anything like this before. Can you imagine how it might feel? Can you imagine? JEANNETTE TRASK, NINTH WARD RESIDENT: It's shock, it's confusion, it's hurt, it's anger, it's everything. This just hurts so bad.

SIEBERG: Jeannette Trask anxiously waited three months for a journey home, a trip to uncertainty. Jeannette and her neighbors in the flooded out Lower Ninth Ward had been kept away.

TRASK: I just had to see it. And as soon as they let me in, I see I'm gone.

SIEBERG: Unlike many others in New Orleans, the residents in this devastated neighborhood have not been allowed back home because of safety concerns. Jeannette didn't know what she'd find.

Her day started early, at a military checkpoint where residents had to sign in. We drove with her to the home she lived in from the time he was 6 years old. Three generations have lived here, starting with her grandmother.

TRASK: Everybody knows 2323 Caston (ph) Avenue. This is where everybody liked to come.

SIEBERG: At 61, Jeannette is now a grandmother herself. She has been living in Texas waiting for three months, living out of a suitcase.

TRASK: Oh, this is the living room.

SIEBERG (on camera): Do you remember some of the moments you had in this living room?

TRASK : Oh, yes, good moments.

SIEBERG: There must have had a lot of times.

TRASK: Good moments. Fun times.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Decades of memories ruined.

(on camera): Does it help to come back here today, though? Does this help?

TRASK: Yes.

SIEBERG: Yes?

TRASK: Yes. I needed this. Because it's been on my mind and I just wanted to see for myself.

(voice-over): Then in the darkness and the muck, she finds a few of her favorite things.

TRASK: Oh, this is my grandmother's picture.

SIEBERG (on camera): Wow! TRASK: Oh, this is her pitcher she had.

SIEBERG: What would she have used that for?

TRASK: Lemonade.

SIEBERG: Lemonade.

(voice-over): Sentimental treasures unearthed from the mire.

But no time to linger. Residents here must look and leave and only during daylight hours. If the city eventually allows her to live here again, Jeannette wants to rebuild.

TRASK: Things are going to be better.

SIEBERG (on camera): As hard as it is right now?

TRASK: As hard as it is right now, I have the faith that things are going to be better. God didn't bring me this far to drop me off here.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Daniel Sieberg, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And while optimistic, seeing her house so damaged was devastating for Jeannette Trask. She called it one of the worst experiences of her life. But during an appearance on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," Trask insisted she's not giving up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRASK: I really would like to rebuild. I really need some help to restore this house. This is a family house. It's been in our family for generations now. And I really don't want to lose it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: With some neighborhoods in the Ninth Ward resembling war zones, is rebuilding realistic? We're going to talk about that with a newspaper reporter whose job it is to keep track of what's happening in the Ninth Ward. You want to join us for that. It happens next hour.

HARRIS: And still ahead, a controversial procedure this week. A woman receives a partial face transplant after her own face is badly disfigured in a dog mauling attack. Should reconstructive surgery have been tried first? We'll examine that issue ahead.

NGUYEN: And the controversy over gang founder Tookie Williams. He's now sitting on death row for murder. But he's also done work to keep kids out of gangs. Should he be killed? We're going to ask the men who nominated him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROMESH RATNESAR, WORLD EDITOR, "TIME": I think Pope Benedict, partly because of the tremendous anticipation that surrounded his rise to the papacy and the fact that he is following someone who I think most people would call one of the real giants of the 20th century makes him a great candidate for person of the year.

I think there's a tremendous amount of interest in him and the direction in which he's taking the church at a time when the church is facing a lot of issues that are difficult for, I think, the Catholic Church to take on in the world. And I think how this pope handles those challenges will be very central to not only the future of the Catholic Church and Catholics around the world, but also the way in which the world handles a lot of major problems.

And so Pope Benedict, I think, is a very interesting character, an interesting thinker and represents an important voice in dealing with moral questions, and, therefore, I think, would be a candidate for person of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: We have more on that face transplant surgery performed almost a week ago on a woman who was severely disfigured in a dog attack. The controversial case has sparked strong opinions throughout the medical community. Now the surgeons involved are talking about the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JEAN-MICHEL DUBERNARD, SURGEON (through translator): When you saw this person's face, how severely disfigured, you will understand why we had to take on this challenge.

NGUYEN (voice-over): That challenge? An unprecedented 15-hour operation transplanting the nose, lips and chin from a brain-dead donor to a woman who had been mauled by her own dog. She's a 38-year- old divorced mother of two who has chosen to remain anonymous. The attack, which happened in May, not only disfigured her, but made it difficult for her to speak and eat.

At a news conference, her doctors said they determined conventional plastic surgery wouldn't do enough for the patient, physically or aesthetically. But they say they knew the alternative would be controversial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There were some ethical issues and there was a point where we had to make a decision.

NGUYEN: They're now convinced the transplant was the right decision. They say Sunday's operation went smoothly and they're especially pleased that the texture and color of the donor's skin matched the patient's almost perfectly.

The final result, they say, will be a new face, not exactly like her old one, but not exactly that of the donor's either. Psychologists have been working closely with the patient, who will have to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of her life. She's also said to be pleased with the results of her surgery. The doctors say her first words were, "Thank you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And as we said, this operation has a number of people in the medical community talking, specifically about the role of medical ethics.

So joining us from Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee is Dr. Ellen Clayton, a biomedical ethicist, to weigh in on the issue.

Good morning to you.

ELLEN WRIGHT CLAYTON, BIOMEDICAL ETHICIST, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Good morning.

NGUYEN: We appreciate you being here.

You know, first of all, how groundbreaking and dangerous of a procedure is this?

CLAYTON: Well, the procedure itself is obviously extremely complicated, to take part of one's face and put it -- and transplant it to another. But among -- and that involves a lot of surgical technical -- technical complexity.

But the biggest issues are going to be the long-term immunosuppression to keep the face from being rejected. And so those are going to be the longer-term issues.

NGUYEN: And we've learned that she has to take drugs for the rest of her life to prevent her body from rejecting that. But say her body does reject this partial facial implant.

What is that going to do? What happens then?

CLAYTON: Well, there are two options, I suppose. One is to get another face transplant or the other would be to turn to the more normal reconstructive surgery to try to create a face in the place of where the face transplant was.

NGUYEN: You know, this leads to other procedures, bigger procedures. That was a partial facial transplant. A full face transplant is something that the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio is preparing to do. They've been given the go ahead to do that.

Is this a slippery slope? I mean are we headed toward people getting this done as a way of cosmetic surgery?

CLAYTON: I can't imagine it. I realize that one of the things about our movies and other public media like books and stories suggest that these kinds of technologies will be used freely and easily, like in the movie "Face-Off." The fact of the matter is that this is going to be a really big surgery with a lot of complicated medical care for the rest of your life. This is not something that someone would do lightly for cosmetic purposes. I really can't imagine that this is a slippery slope.

NGUYEN: Well, and you would think that these patients also will need counseling, because they're obviously going to look, if it's a full face transplant, like somebody else. I mean you talk about their counseling, what about their family, how their family is going to react to this new person?

CLAYTON: Clearly, before you go into a decision like this, you have to do a lot of thinking about the implications for yourself, for your family, potentially for the donor's family, if they were ever to run into the person. And it's going to be a major change because, after all, we recognize other people by the way they look.

But I think that with sufficient counseling over time that people can deal with some of these issues. I think the biggest...

NGUYEN: All right, well, quickly, Dr. Clayton, let me ask you a big issue that I think is going to come to the forefront is guidelines.

Where does it stop? Where are the guidelines on who can and who cannot get that? Are you expecting that to happen?

CLAYTON: Well, the way it will work in the United States is that so long as it's regarded as a research procedure, as it absolutely should be, most of the guidelines are going to come from individual institutional review boards, as in Cleveland, as in the University of Louisville, that has also been considering this.

We also would hope that professional organizations like that of plastic surgery will come up with some guidelines, as well.

NGUYEN: There's got to be some kind of guidelines. Well, we are out of time.

I appreciate your information and insight on this, Dr. Clayton. Thank you so much.

Of course, we'll be talking about this much more to come. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well, there is definitely no love in this next story. Check this out. A surveillance camera at a Florida Wal-Mart captured this Grinch, a man stealing a Salvation Army kettle.

NGUYEN: What?

HARRIS: Yes, yes. Police believe the suspect stole a kettle at the same stand two days earlier. NGUYEN: A repeat offender?

HARRIS: Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Three other kettles in the area have also been targeted, so the Salvation Army is now securing them, locking them down.

NGUYEN: Well, apparently you're going to have to. That's -- that blows my mind -- Bonnie Schneider, the weather outside is getting a little frightful.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, ATS METEOROLOGIST: It is. It is. Especially up toward Syracuse.

That was good, Betty.

NGUYEN: I try every now and then, you know?

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: All right, street gang founder Tookie Williams is scheduled to die for killing four people and he's also written books to help kids stay away from gangs. So, should his life be spared? That's the question.

And we're going to ask the man who nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize.

HARRIS: And, Betty, the bodies of two children found in Ohio. Will the discovery finally give an anguished mother a sense of closure?

That story when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: "Tookie" Williams, he is the Crips street gang founder now sitting on death row and he's the center of a growing controversy. Should his life be spared? We'll talk with the man who nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. It is Saturday, December 3rd. Good morning, everyone from the CNN center in Atlanta. I'm Tony Harris.

NGUYEN: And good morning. I'm Betty Nguyen. We'll have that story.

HARRIS: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Good morning Tony. How are you, although I've seen you for four hours. All right. We're going to give you those stories making news right now for you.

This developing story out of Pakistan, officials there say a major al Qaeda leader has been killed. They say Abu Hamza Rabia died in a blast while working with explosives in a house used for bomb making, but there are unconfirmed reports that the blast was the result of a CIA missile strike. We'll bring you the latest developments just as soon as we know them on that story. Now, north of Baghdad, a deadly ambush against an Iraqi patrol. U.S. military officials say 10 Iraqi soldiers were killed by small arms fire as they searched for insurgents suspected of planting roadside bombs. Iraqi officials say an 11th soldier, an Iraqi major, was kidnapped. His body was later recovered.

Al Jazeera is broadcasting new video that purports to show the four western peace activists taken hostages last week in Iraq. Now the alleged abductors want all Iraqi jails cleared of prisoners or they will threaten to kill the hostages. CNN cannot authenticate the video or the claim.

And three months after hurricane Katrina, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin can still sense the wrath of the storm from displaced citizens who are angry with response and recover efforts. Here's a live picture right now. The mayor is holding a town hall meeting in Atlanta. That will take place at the top of the hour and you want to stick with CNN for live coverage because we will bring you parts of that live when it happens.

HARRIS: Crips gang founder and convicted murderer Stanley "Tookie" Williams is 10 days away from his scheduled execution and death penalty opponents are lining up behind his plea for clemency. Williams last hope now rests with California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger who will decide next week whether to change Williams' death sentence to life in prison without parole.

Williams was sentenced to die after being convicted of four murders in 1981. Wednesday, California supreme court voted 4-2 not to reopen the Williams case, but many supporters point to Williams jailhouse redemption writing children's books with an anti-gang theme.

That work has earned Williams nominations for Nobel Peace and Literature prizes. Phil Gasper knows that "Tookie" Williams well. He is the man who nominated Williams for the Nobel four times and he joins us live from San Francisco with more. Phil, good morning to you.

PHIL GASPER, PHILOSOPHY PROFESSOR: Good morning.

HARRIS: Hey, let me start by having you make the best argument you can for clemency for "Tookie" Williams based on your knowledge of him.

GASPER: Well, I think Mr. Williams' case is really a remarkable one. He's somebody who's not only turned his own life around while he's been on death row, renouncing his gang past, apologizing for what he did as a gang leader.

But he's had an incredible impact through his children's books and his mentoring programs on thousands upon thousands of young people, helping keep them out of gangs and he's also helped negotiate gang truces in a number of cities around the U.S. So that's a very, very positive impact and I think that it's in the society's interests to allow him to continue doing that work.

HARRIS: But you know what, Phil? He's never apologized, for example, to Lora Owens, the mother of one of his victims, Albert.

GASPER: Well, he is in a kind of catch-22 situation on the crimes for which he was convicted because he's always maintained that he was innocent of those crimes and he says he can't apologize for something which he didn't do. But he has apologized for the things which he does admit to, which is founding the Crips and his life as a gang leader.

HARRIS: And what else? I mean, that's a gang that is responsible for murder, for killing folks, for crimes ravaging south central Los Angeles. Has he apologized for all of that?

GASPER: Absolutely. I mean he says that the worst mistake that he ever made was founding the Crips and since he came out of solitary confinement about 12 years ago, he's devoted his life to trying to do something about stopping that gang violence.

HARRIS: Hey, Phil, is he saying to you that he has never been directly responsible for someone's death, that he never killed someone?

GASPER: He says that he has never been directly responsible for a murder.

HARRIS: Does he say that he ordered a killing?

GASPER: So far as I know, he doesn't say that either. I mean he knows the kind of damage that the Crips have caused in Los Angeles and other cities. And that's what he takes responsibility for, directly or indirectly.

HARRIS: Phil, I want you to listen to Lora Owens, the mother of one of the victims, Albert, and then I'll have you respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORA OWENS, VICTIM'S STEPMOTHER: "Tookie" likes to pretend Albert doesn't exist, which is why I like to come out and let people know ,this was a fine young man who was out there making an honest living and "Tookie" killed him execution style. He killed him. No, he's not apologized because he wants people to forget. He likes to refer to this thing as a mistake in his youth. It's called murder, Albert's not -- his death was not a mistake. It was a murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Phil, respond to that and this question of due process. What is "Tookie" saying, that he's been denied due process all these years?

GASPER: Yes. He expressed sympathy for the families of the victims of the crimes for which he was convicted, but his original trial had all kinds of problems with it and he was convicted basically on the basis of testimony from people who were granting immunity, who were facing serious felonies and did deals with the prosecution to have those felonies set aside, so that very, very unreliable basis for his conviction.

HARRIS: OK. Yes, but you know what? I don't even know why I asked that question because that gets us into retrying and that's something we can't do and I don't want to do. Let me ask you why you nominated him four times for Nobel prizes.

GASPER: Well, I told you something about, you know, what he's managed to do over the past dozen years and I think that that is a very remarkable story and one that requires some kind of recognition. He's an example about how somebody can change their lives and how they can have an enormous positive impact on the society around them.

HARRIS: OK. Phil Gasper, thanks for your time. The hearing is Thursday. You have a prediction?

GASPER: I don't know which way it's going to go. I think the governor is still thinking about it.

HARRIS: OK, Phil, thanks for your time.

GASPER: Thank you.

NGUYEN: A New Hampshire mother's two and a half-year quest to give her children a proper burial may be close at hand with the discovery of two bodies in Ohio. CNN's Keith Oppenheim has more on one woman's terrible loss and what may be a long-awaited resolution.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As snow fell in Hudson, Ohio, police uncovered a grave. The question, are the two bodies discovered here those of two murdered children, 14-year-old Sarah Gehring and her 11-year-old brother Philip?

DAVID ROBINSON, HUDSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: They are together in what appears to be the same shallow grave.

OPPENHEIM: Investigators said the discovery was made by a woman who'd been walking her dog.

JEFFREY STRELZIN, NH ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: My understanding is that her dog keyed in on the sight and she went up to it, took a look at it. And she started digging herself and once he unearthed the garbage bags, she stopped.

OPPENHEIM: While the bodies have not yet been identified, the location closely matched details of a description police had been trying to pinpoint. Still, Terry Knight, the two children's mother, didn't want to make assumptions.

TERI KNIGHT, MOTHER: I'm not going down the road yet that this is definitely it because it just sets yourself up for disappointment so I'm just going to wait and take it one step at a time.

OPPENHEIM: In July of 2003, Sarah and Philip Gehring were last seen with their father Manuel near their New Hampshire home. Bitter about a custody dispute, Gehring drove cross country and was arrested in California a week later.

He admitted to murdering his daughter and son, but on tapes made by the FBI, gave a general description, not a precise location of where he buried his victims. Seven months later, Gehring hanged himself in a New Hampshire jail, but the details he gave were enough for his ex-wife Teri to do everything she could to find the bodies.

KNIGHT: Hi. I'm Teri Knight and two years ago my children Sarah and Philip Gehring I don't know if you remember the case. They were murdered.

OPPENHEIM: Last summer, exactly two years after the crimes were committed, Knight spearheaded a drive to get volunteers throughout the Midwest to search for Sarah and Philip.

KNIGHT: They don't deserve to be buried on the side of a road. I don't deserve to have them buried on the side of the road and we need to find them and bring them home.

OPPENHEIM: It seemed like an impossible task, but Teri and her husband Jim were determined.

KNIGHT: I'm going to be successful in making sure that when I leave, someone else -- and many other people, are going to be looking.

OPPENHEIM: Her efforts may have paid off. While police didn't identify the person who found the bodies, they did say she was a volunteer searching for the Gehring children. If they are positively identified, then Teri Knight will be able to fulfill the one thing she could hope for, to give her children a decent burial. Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: OK. And take a look at this next piece of video. Hit men on tape confessing to terrible crimes. They appear beaten but by whom is the question. The details when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, good morning and welcome back. President Bush is pushing a plan to toughen security along the southern border. He promised more manpower and high-tech equipment like unmanned flying drones to strengthen border patrols. In his weekly radio address, he also addressed the issue of crime and illegal immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In communities near our border, illegal immigration strains the resources of schools, hospitals and law enforcement and it involves smugglers and gangs that bring crime to our neighborhoods. Faced with this serious challenge, our government's responsibility is clear. We're going to protect our borders.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: Drug trafficking is one of the factors leading to increased violence along the U.S./Mexico border. CNN's Casey Wian reports there are now allegations that former Mexican commandos are involved in the recent upsurge of violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a video shot by hostage-taking terrorists in Iraq, but apparently this is the work of rogue law enforcement officers just across our border in Mexico. These four men, badly bloodied and bruised sit handcuffed and tell investigators how they served as hit men for the Zadas (ph).

They're the group of former Mexican military commandos who defected to work for the Gulf drug cartel. Zadas are believed to be responsible for dozens of killings in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, even some across the border in Texas.

This man talked in detail about the killings of a Mexican police chief and a well-known journalist. Others spoke of their alliances with Mexican law enforcement. The men appeared terrified, often looking off camera at their captors. At the end of the DVD video, a pistol appears. One hit man is shot in the head. The video was sent anonymously to a small newspaper in Washington state, which passed it on to the "Dallas Morning News" and the FBI.

Law enforcement sources in the United States and Mexico say they've been aware of the video for months, but only after it became public this week did Mexican authorities arrest 11 Federal agents on charges of murder and kidnapping.

JOSE LUIS VASCONCELOS, MEXICAN ASST. ATTY. GEN. (through translator): We are able to determine the participation of some investigative Federal agents in what we originally thought was a kidnapping.

WIAN: Vasconcelos says the video is an effort to discredit Mexico's efforts to fight violent drug gangs. Meanwhile, Mexican President Vicente Fox appeared in a news conference, but Mexican journalists failed to ask him about the video or the arrests of Mexican Federal agents.

(on-camera): Now that the video is public, law enforcement officers on both sides of the border are preparing for a new round of violence. Many suspect the video is part of a dispute between rival drug gangs that is now likely to escalate. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And if you've just joined us, here are some of the top stories that we're following today. Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf says an explosion in a northwestern tribal area has killed a top al Qaeda operative. The man Abu Hamza Rabia was among five people killed in that blast. One report says the explosion stemmed from a missile launched from an unmanned drone. That has not been confirmed as of yet.

In Iraq, 11 Iraqi solders are killed in an ambush north of Baghdad, some graphic video right now. The attackers used roadside bombs and small arms. Ten soldiers died in the initial strike and the body of the 11th who was kidnapped was found later.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin wants displaced New Orleans residents to go back home. He'll make that call in a town hall meeting. They get started about 15 minutes from now in Atlanta. A number of Katrina evacuees came to Atlanta after hurricane Katrina hit.

HARRIS: Stick with us. We will bring you live coverage of that town hall meeting with the mayor. It'll get started at the top of the hour and we'll bring you bits and pieces, parts of it right here on CNN.

You know now curiosity almost killed the cat, Betty?

NGUYEN: I have heard.

HARRIS: Well, we've got the proof. It's one of the day's hot web stories. That and more when CNN SATURDAY MORNING returns.

NGUYEN: Watch it, she'll bite.

HARRIS: Come on now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: I'm so scared what we're about to hear but let's go for it. If you went to bed early on December 1st, you may have missed two talk show hosts going head to head on late night television. Veronica de la Cruz is here to bring us up-to-date on exactly what happened here.

VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not really head to head, I wouldn't say head to head.

NGUYEN: OK, what would you say?

DE LA CRUZ: Did you see Oprah?

NGUYEN: Bring me up to speed Veronica.

DE LA CRUZ: Well, you know, she finally made appearance on the show after 16 years.

NGUYEN: Yes. After the Oprah-Uma thing.

DE LA CRUZ: Yes, exactly and I'm going to tell you what happened.

NGUYEN: All right.

DE LA CRUZ: Not yet though. How is that for a teaser? Let's get to some of those animal stories. NGUYEN: The panda dog.

DE LA CRUZ: Right, exactly, not just yet. This feline for a penchant for foreign travel. This cat Emily, she made the way from Wisconsin to France. She got stuck in a shipping container at a paper factory near her house and was shipped to gay Paris. Because she had a name tag however, the people at the factory kindly shipped her back. Now, Continental Airlines caught wind of the situation and flew this VIC or very important cat back to Wisconsin first class, so a situation where curiosity didn't kill the cat.

NGUYEN: Good thing.

DE LA CRUZ: Lucky for Emily. Animal lovers, it is your day today. More animal stories now and Betty's favorite story by the way.

NGUYEN: This is wild. Watch very closely.

DE LA CRUZ: Actually, we're not there yet Betty. Hang on.

NGUYEN: All right. I'm ready.

DE LA CRUZ: Baby panda cub Tai Shan she's finally walking. Tai Shan will be on display the National Zoo starting December 8th. Take a look at this. He's black. He is white. He appears to be a panda bear, right, all over.

NGUYEN: Except the tail.

DE LA CRUZ: Right. Well, he has the rings around the eyes, but this is a dog in panda's clothing.

NGUYEN: No.

DE LA CRUZ: Yes. Apparently, the owner dyed his coat to make him look like this and he like to get his belly rubbed. Did you see that?

HARRIS: Yes.

DE LA CRUZ: You know what, I got the goods on this Betty. It was a Maltese poodle mix named Colombo. The owner dyed his eyes because he had stains around his eyes, so his owner dyed him to make him look like a panda.

NGUYEN: OK. You know? I don't even want to know. Is that permanent dye? Is he spray painted. What is up with the panda dog?

DE LA CRUZ: I don't know.

NGUYEN: Who does that?

DE LA CRUZ: A lot of upkeep there, a lot of upkeep. That's all I have to say.

And I have one more story. We're going to go back to the Oprah- Dave Letterman story, right? All right. I don't know if you caught it the other night, Tony, I know betty didn't. After 16 years, Oprah Winfrey finally agreed to play guest on "Late Show with David Letterman." The talk show host had been refusing to come on, because she said after her last few appearances, she always felt like the butt of his jokes. So Letterman on his best behavior pulled in the highest ratings in a decade.

NGUYEN: Of course, it's Oprah.

DE LA CRUZ: Nielsen reports 13.5 million viewers tuned in watch which is three times what he normally sees.

NGUYEN: The point is, the friend Oprah. We need her on the show apparently Tony. Did you see it, Tony, by the way? Did you see it?

HARRIS: I did not. I saw the extended clips on it, but it was very good, very funny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Well, cnn.com video, cnn.com/video if you missed it.

HARRIS: OK.

NGUYEN: Thank you Veronica. All right.

HARRIS: Let's get a check of weather now. Bonnie Schneider upstairs at the CNN weather center. Hi, Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: Bonnie, thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

HARRIS: The reason for the season alive and well in the hearts of New York volunteers who are making operation Santa Claus come to life in the big apple. The program is sponsored by the U.S. Postal Service, counseling customers to help fulfill the wishes of needy children who penned their Christmas wishes to Santa. So far, 165,000 letters - wow -- have been addressed to the big guy.

There you go. And we'll see you back here tomorrow beginning at 7:00 Eastern. And you don't want to miss it. We're going to introduce you to one tough U.S. Marine colonel who volunteers to track down some stolen arts in Baghdad.

NGUYEN: It's a fascinating story. You don't want to miss that. CNN SUNDAY MORNING off at 7:00 Eastern tomorrow. CNN LIVE SATURDAY is up next. It stars Fredricka Whitfield, Have a good morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com