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CNN Saturday Morning News

Ayman al-Zawahiri May Or May Not Be Dead; Publisher of "A Million Little Pieces Being Sued For Consumer Fraud;

Aired January 14, 2006 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: There are some conflicting reports this morning after the CIA led an air strike in Pakistan. Was Osama bin Laden right hand man killed? We are searching for answers. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Our top story in just a minute. First a look at what is happening right now in the news. The U.S. military reports that an American marine was killed in combat yesterday. In the Iraqi city of Ramadi to date 2,215 U.S. troops have died in the Iraq war.

Parts of the country are cleaning up this morning from unusually violent winter weather manning, South Carolina, and Gastonia, North Carolina each hit by suspected tornadoes. At least nine people were hurt as a severe storm tore through mobile homes outs of Manning. Four of those victims were critically hurt.

Republican sources tell CNN that house speaker Dennis Hastert is moving to push embattled Congressman Bob Ney from committee chair post. A source close to Ney also tells CNN the congressman from Ohio is considering stepping down. Government sources have told CNN that Ney is the so called representative one that lobbyist Jack Abramoff has identified in court papers as accepting gifts in exchange for helping clients.

NGUYEN: As mentioned there are conflicting reports this morning about whether Osama bin Laden's number two man was killed in a CIA air strike. DNA tests are being conducted to determine if al-Zawahiri was in fact among the 18 killed in a remote Pakistani village yesterday. CNN military analyst General Spider Marks joins us now from Washington with his take on these reports. We have conflicting reports. How do you sort it out? Who do you think is right?

GENERAL JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well Betty, you know you indicated that there is an ongoing effort right now to do some DNA testing. That tells you that there is a body in hand which is a good sign. I don't have anything additional to confirm that in fact Zawahiri was present and that in fact the strike hit the very house where he was. But frankly if there's a report that DNA is ongoing that's a very good sign.

NGUYEN: How precise are these strikes in getting one person in particular?

MARKS: Yes, I got to tell you, Betty. This is a compilation, a real collection effort, and intelligence collection effort. You have to kind of work the environmental; you have to know you're in the right region. Have to have tremendous support from the Pakistanis.

Anybody who is not a local, somebody who is not a member of the tribe, who is not indigenous to that region, is going to be spotted. You can't penetrate very deeply into the region if you're an outsider. So there is a lot of local support. That sets the conditions. Then you have to very precisely, track, identify, confirm before you strike. Once you identified a location it is a matter of technology if you're firing hellfire. It's going to hit where you aim that thing.

NGUYEN: General, I have to tell you that CNN wire reports now that al-Zawahiri may not have been in the house which just goes along with the information that we're learning that he could have been there. He may not have been, but this DNA testing is ongoing. As we sort all of this out, talk to us. Give us some perspective. What was his role in this organization?

MARKS: Well, as the number two guy, Betty, he was really the chief ops officer. He was responsible for the mastermind of 9/11 and the ongoing efforts that al Qaeda is taking on right now. Clearly, Zarqawi in Iraq has taken the lead there. Zawahiri really is very close to Bin Laden. They have a brotherhood they linked up during the Jihad in Afghanistan in the '80s. They have what I would call shared scar tissue.

So he is very close to the guy in charge of al Qaeda. His departure is a tremendous blow to al Qaeda. It has to be. Now, one way to look at it, he could be martyred and so there could be an episodic spike in aggressive activity of the Jihad worldwide with his departure but if he's alive, then we're back to where we were before. It's a very severe blow to al Qaeda if he's dead.

NGUYEN: OK, say he's dead. Just in theory right now. Say he's dead. Are there plenty of people within the network ready to step up and take his place?

MARKS: Well there are folks who would step up. But you can't replace an inspirational leader, a leader who has that kind of connection with the overall network. That he has or he had. So, yes, the short answer is somebody will step up but it won't be a complete replacement. I mean this was an inspirational leader. This is or was a very brilliant man clearly a terrorist who needs to go away. There are guys who are waiting in the wings to step forward. It would not be a replacement in kind.

NGUYEN: General Spider Marks thank you for that insight this morning as we wait to hear whether or not he indeed is dead. We appreciate your time.

MARKS: Thanks Betty.

HARRIS: Taking a look now at stories making news across America this morning. A suitcase containing human remains is found floating in the San Francisco Bay. Investigators say boaters discovered the suitcase. Saw what was inside then waited for the Coast Guard to arrive. Medical examiner will use DNA testing to determine the identity.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg called for investigation of the city's Child Protective Services following the death of a 7-year- old. Nixzmary was found dead in her family's home. Her face and body covered with marks and bruises.

The girl's mother and stepfather face numerous charges including murder and manslaughter. The city began investigating abuse claims about the couple last May but failed to pursue a warrant after the child's stepfather began denying social workers from visiting the home.

In Florida investigators say a middle school student carrying a pellet gun was suicidal. Police were called to Milwee Middle School yesterday after 15-year-old Christopher David Penley pointed a pellet gun at students and at administrators, a S.W.A.T. officer says the boy threaten to kill himself then pointed the gun at the officer. So the officer shot him. The 15-year-old is in the hospital this morning on life support.

NGUYEN: Well, Friday the 13th will be remembered in parts of the Carolinas for two suspected tornadoes including one in a mobile home park near Manning, South Carolina. Nine people were hurt there, four of them critically. Another suspected twister in Gastonia, North Carolina.

Now near the Gulf Coast a woman in Bellville, Alabama, was killed by a falling chimney as an apparent tornado moved through her neighborhood.

On the Pacific northwest, rain as far as the radar can see, Seattle saw its 26th straight day of precipitation yesterday. Forecasters expect more of the same for the next ten days. Which would tie a record set in 1953. That would put it at 36 days of straight rain.

HARRIS: Here's the thing. You've got so much warm weather on the map, and then you have a cold front or something. They collide and then you get all of this violent weather.

NGUYEN: Tony has been listening.

HARRIS: Good morning, Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: Watch out, Bonnie, he's learning a little too much about your department over there. May have some competition.

HARRIS: You know it is part of the job. It's part of the job.

NGUYEN: The all-knowing Tony Harris. All right. Bonnie, we'll check in with you shortly. HARRIS: Still ahead author James Frey says his memoirs are true, well mostly. And Oprah says that's good enough for her. Do readers feel betrayed any way? Talk about the man behind the fact-finding mission.

NGUYEN: And a time capsule carrying stardust. Signs like a good science fiction movie right? Well it is real and it will light the skies tonight. We have all those details straight-ahead right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Welcome back to CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Betty Nguyen. Here are some of the top stories that we are following for you.

There are conflicting reports about weather Osama bin Laden's right hand man was killed in a CIA air strike in Pakistan. U.S. forces say al-Zawahiri was the target of yesterday's strike which killed 18 people including women and children. But senior Pakistani officials tell CNN that the al Qaeda operative was not even at the site. We are working on clarifying those details.

Back in the U.S. several reported tornadoes tore through the south last night destroying homes in the Carolinas and Alabama. One woman was killed when her chimney collapsed and four people were critically injured at a trailer park. The same weather system is now moving through the mid Atlantic and New England region.

Flights are still suspended into Anchorage and Fair Banks, Alaska, because a volcanic eruption. Look at this picture. Scientists say the Augustine volcano has erupted at least eight times since Wednesday, sending more ash into the air. Before this week's activity it hadn't been active for 20 years.

HARRIS: A fact or fiction, that's the heated debate over one of the most talked about books in the country. "A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey. Oprah Winfrey endorsed the memoir for her inferential book club and sales went through the book. "The Smoking Gun" Web site claims parts of the book are exaggerated or made up.

Now wire reports say a Chicago law firm is suing the publisher, alleging consumer fraud. The firm says it is acting on behalf of a reader who now says she feels cheated. Publisher Doubleday is offering a refund to any reader who wants it. Frey defended his book on "Larry King Live" earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES FREY, AUTHOR, "A MILLION LITTLE PIECES:" My side is that I wrote a memoir. I never expected the book to come under the type of scrutiny that it has. I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to say I've conned anyone. The book is 432 pages long. The total page count of disputed events is 18. Which is less than 5 percent of the total book. That falls comfortably within the realm of what appropriate for a memoir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Joining me now from New York is William Bastone, editor of "The Smoking Gun." Again that's the Web site that made the allegations in the first place. William good morning, good to talk to you.

WILLIAM BASTONE, "THE SMOKING GUN:" Good morning Tony.

HARRIS: I just mentioned there are allegations. Are they allegations any more or is this fact?

BASTONE: Well, I think when went on Larry King he acknowledged pretty much everything that was in our story. There were a couple of stray pieces that didn't get addressed in the interview that he said every chance to claim were incorrect and he hasn't done it. So, no, they are not allegations anymore. Everything in our story is backed up by contemporaneous police reports and court documents involving all the incidents.

HARRIS: Why the scrutiny on this book? Is it because Oprah got involved?

BASTONE: Yes, I would say it would not have been on our radar had she not endorsed it and had not millions and millions of people gone out to buy it and pass it on to their friends and try to get their husbands and significant others to read it. It has become a phenomenon. We're now headed for a week after we posted the story and we cannot keep up with the e-mail that is pouring into our site about it.

HARRIS: How did it reach your radar? What brought all this scrutiny?

BASTONE: Well we hadn't been looking at anything. One day in late November we got an e-mail from a visitor to the site who suggested that we should try to go out and get a mug shot for James Frey, the author of "A Million Little Pieces" the book Oprah had picked. We have a large section on our site that is devoted to booking photos of well-known people.

We attempted to do that because we thought Mr. Frey was someone who our audience would have been familiar with and might have gotten a kick out of seeing one of the photos from his 13 or 14 arrests. That led us down a path where we didn't find anything initially and then our curiosity got piqued.

HARRIS: That's good. I'm curious, like I told you a moment ago, on the fence like this. Maybe you can move me way or the other. Why does this matter? Frey says he sent the book in as a memoir and that memoirs generally speaking aren't absolute truth. They are the facts of your life, as you know them. Why does this matter?

BASTONE: I think that's a relatively fair statement. But what went and did was create entire fictional accounts likely he created fictional characters, as well. And the thing I think has gotten a lot of people and evidenced by the e-mail we received and the feedback people calling our audience.

When the book was published he went out and promoted it initially as a hard cover. As a true account of his life, he has done dozens and dozens of interviews over the intervening two and a half years where he said this is straight nonfiction.

He told Matt Lauer to his face that everything in the book happened. He promoted this book as the true accurate account of his life. He needed to do that because if you believed that the thing was fictionalized, the narrative power of the book evaporates. Frankly the marketing -- one of the chief marketing points of the book go away. People buy it because they believe it happened to somebody.

HARRIS: All right. Let's -- Oprah was on Larry King the other night. Did you hear about that?

BASTONE: I was watching.

HARRIS: You were watching. OK. And here is Oprah calling in to Larry King and here's her take on the whole brouhaha. Let me have you respond to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: I feel about "A Million Little Pieces" that all though some of the facts have been questioned and people have a right to question because we live in a country that lets you do that, that the underlying message of redemption in James Frey's memoir still resonates with me and I know that it resonates with millions of other people who have read this book and will continue to read this book.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: All right. William what do you think?

BASTONE: Listen, she has to do what she has to do. She went out on a limb. She supported this book, she has promoted this book. You know, the fact that she chooses to abet a liar, that's her business. I think it's kind of unfortunate. The fact is he promoted this thing at every turn as the truth. He did it because at the core of that -- the reason he did it there was a financial motivation. And there are a lot of people; Oprah can say it's a tale of redemption that's fine.

But you have to ask yourself a question, if he lied and fabricated the portions of the book for which a contemporaneous paper trail exists why would you think the rest of the book for which you have to rely solely on his word is true? Why would anyone possibly think that the only fake stuff is the stuff that you have -- there are documents attached to? The real stuff is the stuff that you have to rely on James Frey to be telling the truth.

HARRIS: William Bastone, he's the man behind the investigation of this book by James Frey with "The Smoking Gun" Web site. William thanks for being with us this morning.

BASTONE: Thanks Tony.

HARRIS: And we'll talk more about the James Frey controversy throughout the day. Several guests will be joining us. You can also watch Larry King's exclusive interview with James Frey again tonight in which Oprah Winfrey called in. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

NGUYEN: Yes you don't want to miss that.

Well, streaking across the sky with a handful of stardust. No, it's not a UFO. Up next a capsule that could unlock some mysteries of the solar system.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD LUI, CNN.COM: Believe it or not, but this little, blue, iridescent cube right here can protect me from being burnt by the common blowtorch. Can't find it in a home improvement store, only on a spacecraft like Stardust. Stardust is the first space probe dedicated to comet exploration.

You can also check out highlights of the Stardust mission on this timeline. Almost five years after its 1997 launch the probe collected interstellar dust particles from the tail of a comet using aero gel to trap it. This substance has two NASA applications: one is an insulator, the other as a space butterfly net. Learn more about aero gel in this gallery; for instance, it's 99.8 percent air and 39 times more effective than fiberglass. And Stardust will return to earth ...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Betty we've been trying to get all morning long more information on the situation in Pakistan now. And the reports that Ayman al-Zawahiri may be dead.

NGUYEN: Conflicting reports.

HARRIS: A CIA attack. Sheikh Rashid Ahmad is on the line with us. He is Pakistan's information minister. Good morning, to you, sir.

SHEIKH RASHID AHMAD, PAKISTANI INFORMATION MINISTER (via telephone): Good morning to you, also.

HARRIS: Can you in any way give us an update, the latest information you have, first of all, on the CIA attack, I understand, in Pakistan, that was targeting al Qaeda's number two?

AHMAD: You know, we are going to summon the American ambassador on this issue and make strong protest on the killing of these 16, 18, civilian people. Regarding this, we have no information. This we are saying the very first day from Friday. And CIA, we are not responsible for their statement. And if they have given this statement, they can give better comments. HARRIS: Well, Sheikh, I have to ask you. Our understanding is from sourcing here in the United States is that this attack was carried out based on intelligence provided by Pakistanis. Can you confirm that?

AHMAD: I don't think so. That this kind of information was from Pakistan but I have no information regarding this.

HARRIS: We also understand that there are active protests on the ground in your country, is that true?

AHMAD: Of course, of course. There must be. Maybe he some protests. I have news there is a protest in that area.

HARRIS: Are you telling me that the government of Pakistan is planning to file a formal protest with the United States?

AHMAD: That's right.

HARRIS: And can you give us a sense of what that protest will entail? Are you going to be --

AHMAD: I don't know, the foreign office is going to give a short statement within ten to 15 minutes.

HARRIS: In 15 minutes we'll get a statement?

AHMAD: Yes, foreign office statement.

HARRIS: OK. We will wait for that. Any additional information? Let's leave it there and wait for the statement in 15 minutes.

AHMAD: OK.

HARRIS: OK, Pakistan's information minister on the phone with us as we try to get more information on the attempt to take out al Qaeda's number two in Pakistan.

NGUYEN: Yes, conflicting information. Some saying that he was killed in that attack. Other information saying that he wasn't even in the area. So we understand that DNA tests are being conducted on the identity of those killed.

As you heard from the Sheikh some 16 to 18 people on the ground were killed in that. Of course we're working our sources. International desk is working its sources. We'll bring you the latest information as soon as we have it. Stay tuned for more news right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, the USTOA, United States Tour Operators Association, cited Croatia as this year's top hot spot. Founded on the ruins of the Roman Empire. The central European country is rich in history and cultural heritage. Boasts breath taking architecture and a coastline of over a thousand islands. The most expensive time to visit is in July and August. But if you want to save some money consider traveling in April, May, June, or September when it's still warm and sunny.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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