Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Saturday Morning News
Plane Misses Destination; First Lady in the Hot Seat; Untangling a Taboo Topic; Tracking H1N1 Online
Aired October 24, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Got it there?
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: I made it.
NGUYEN: All right. All right.
Hello, everybody. Guess who's back?
HOLMES: Yes, and just in the knick of time. It's like I just walk in the door.
NGUYEN: Apparently. Right. You just button up your jacket and everything.
HOLMES: Yes, got it together.
Hello to you all. Good to be back with you after just a Sunday off last weekend.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: Appreciate you, Rob, for filling in for me last weekend.
But, yes, October 24th. And I am T.J. Holmes, and I'm back.
NGUYEN: Yes, you are. Glad to have you back, T.J.
HOLMES: Thank you.
NGUYEN: We're going to be talking about where you've been, what you've been doing and all that stuff a little bit later this morning.
In the meantime, though, hello, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. Thanks so much for starting your day with us.
You know, here's a big question for you. And a lot of people had been talking about this story.
Were they sleeping? Were they -- what were they doing?
HOLMES: Yes.
NGUYEN: So many questions after a Northwest Airlines plane missed its runway. Not, you know, by just a few feet, 150 miles, folks.
HOLMES: Yes.
NGUYEN: What were they doing? That's the question this morning.
HOLMES: And everybody's OK, so you kind of -- you know, everybody is making jokes and kind of laughing.
NGUYEN: Yes, they did for a minute. They didn't even know that the plane had been hijacked because they could not get any radio contact with the plane. So, yeah, what were they doing?
HOLMES: We'll be getting you through that this morning.
And on a totally different topic and a totally different turn here, we're going to be talk about hair this morning. Not mine, not Chris Rock's, but a movie that Chris Rock has put together that's actually causing a bit of controversy is talking about black hair. Black women's hair, specifically, and exactly what is good hair. It's starting a interesting conversation that some aren't too fond of having right now.
We'll get into that a little more this morning as well.
NGUYEN: All right. And First Lady Michelle Obama on primetime last night. We didn't watch it.
HOLMES: We didn't get a chance to see it.
NGUYEN: No. But she was asked what is her husband's most annoying habit.
Oh, yes, find out what she had to say.
But first, let's begin with some breaking news out of Pakistan.
A drone attack on the house of a suspected Taliban leader. It happened in the city of Damadola, and 14 people were killed, including three foreigners.
HOLMES: Some other stories we'll be keeping an eye on this morning. More bank failures to tell you about. We got four more specifically. We are now past the 100 mark. We're up to 106 bank failures this year. The latest three we know about. In Florida, another in Georgia, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois as well. The federal fund that covers bank failures. You know, ensures that money you have in there, that fund is now at $7.5 billion. A year ago, however, that fund was at $45 billion.
NGUYEN: Well, New Jersey police, they are searching for the killer of a priest this morning. Reverend Ed Hines was found dead in the rectory of St. Patrick's Church in Chatham yesterday. And investigators say that he was wearing his clerical robes. There's no word yet on a motive.
HOLMES: And a story Betty and I we're just talking about a moment ago at the top of the show. That commercial jet that overshot its destination by 150 miles. Well, some are coming to the defense of the crew now. Well, the first officer, he actually spoke to CNN, our affiliate KGW. He said that that flight, which was Northwest flight 188 left San Diego on Wednesday evening heading to Minneapolis. He said they were not sleeping as many have speculated, and the investigation certainly going on right now.
But listen to what he told our affiliate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody was asleep in the cockpit, and no arguments took place. But other than that, I cannot tell you anything that went on because we're having hearings this weekend; we're having hearings on Tuesday. All that information will come out then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: I don't know.
NGUYEN: What were they doing?
HOLMES: What do you do here?
They came out. And the first excuse that came out was that in fact they were in a heated argument about some kind of airline policy.
NGUYEN: Right.
HOLMES: Just totally lost track of things. OK, that's one thing. But now they're saying that's not even the case. So if you weren't asleep, you weren't arguing, what in the world else could you have been doing out there?
NGUYEN: Well, it is not like it was just a little bit of time that went by. It was an hour and 18 minutes where they could not get radio contact with this plane via text messaging, via the radio system, via cell phone, via anything. So, yes, the big question this morning, we want to hear from you. What do you think? What in the world could they have been doing to cause them to miss their runway by 150 miles?
Let us know. You can reach us on Facebook, you can reach us on Twitter. Also weekends@CNN.com. You can even go to our blog -- CNN.com/Betty or CNN.com/TJ.
I know you've got a lot to say about this morning, so let us hear it.
And the issue now is much more serious certainly after 9/11. If he can't get contact with the plane or pilot, you scramble jets. And Ian Powell (ph) is now in place to talk about who would make a decision to possibly shoot the plane down if you can't get in touch. So this is much more serious than scratching your head about what was going on.
NGUYEN: Right.
HOLMES: So much more about that this morning.
NGUYEN: But the good news is everybody is OK. And, you know, there was no accident or anything like that.
HOLMES: Thank goodness. Thank goodness.
NGUYEN: Yes, thank goodness.
HOLMES: We will turn to some weather here. Our guy Reynolds Wolf is not here with us, but that's OK. We are in very capable hands of Bonnie Schneider.
Good morning to you, Bonnie.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: All right. Not what we want to hear, but, hey, it's the reality of the situation today. And look at that map behind you.
HOLMES: And we want to get the game in.
NGUYEN: I know.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's all timing. Timing is everything.
HOLMES: Timing is everything. All right.
Bonnie, we appreciate it.
NGUYEN: Ain't that the truth?
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
HOLMES: We'll see you again here soon.
Well, what we saw last night, the First Lady was on Jay Leno. And, you know, in an interview like that, you know some things are going to come up.
NGUYEN: Oh you can ask her some fun stuff.
HOLMES: Yes.
NGUYEN: And so he asked about the president's flaws, of course. And specifically the most annoying habit that the president has, and she said not snoring, not any of these things that you would think, beating her at tennis.
HOLMES: I appreciate that, actually.
NGUYEN: Do you?
HOLMES: Sometimes you're supposed to just let the woman win.
NGUYEN: At tennis? HOLMES: They tell you sometimes, you're just supposed to let someone win.
NGUYEN: I know. Don't let me win.
HOLMES: You know, but some.
You're pretty competitive, certainly at bowling.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes.
HOLMES: But here's a little more of what she had to say to Jay Leno last night.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Question number 6, your husband just won the Nobel Peace Prize. Would he rather have world peace or have the White Sox win the World Series?
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, that's a tough one. And I think if you would ask him, he'd say he'd probably prefer world peace, but he wouldn't mind the World Series bit, too. But I think he'd choose world peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: I would hope so. World peace, you know.
HOLMES: I think he'd probably get world peace before the Sox end up in the World Series.
NGUYEN: You heard it from him, folks, not me. All right.
Asked what she whispers to her husband after speeches, in her words, quote, I usually asked him, "did he take out the garbage?"
HOLMES: Right.
NGUYEN: Keeping it real. Love that.
OK. But, you know, a lot of people worry about the H1N1 flu, so how can you look to see how much it has actually spread in your specific area?
HOLMES: We'll be talking about H1N1 this morning. Also talking about hair.
Yes, Chris Rock. He's a funny guy, sure enough, and he's made a movie that's pretty funny, but it's also causing a bit of controversy. You'll hear my conversation with him. And also, Nia Long, one of the stars of the movie and why it's stirring up a bit of controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: All right. Well, have you heard of this toxic goop that's called "creamy crack?" Well, even if you haven't heard of that, maybe relaxers sounds more familiar. Weaves, this is all the language of hair. And Chris Rock decided to make a documentary about hair. He's calling it "Good Hair." Opens nationwide this weekend.
It comes, of course -- Chris Rock always comes with comedy, but this time around comes with a bit of controversy and criticism as well. This is the guy, of course, known for making people laugh, pulling back the curtain on the subject that some black women would rather not talk about and rather not be examined about.
Well, he talked to me, also Nia Long, whose featured prominently in the movie.
First take a listen to our conversation, and then I'm going to tell you about the controversy it's stirring up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS ROCK, ACTOR: What's your definition of good hair?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes it looks relaxed and nice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If your hair is relaxed, people look relaxed. If your hair is nappy, they're not happy.
HOLMES (on camera): Tell me first, you all just tell me, how would you all define good hair? Not the movie, actual hair. What is good hair?
NIA LONG, ACTRESS: All hair is good.
ROCK: There you go. All hair is good hair. You have good hair. She's got good hair.
LONG: As long as it's behaving.
ROCK: As long as it's not attacking you. It's not flesh-eating hair.
HOLMES: But some people need work to get it to behave. Would you agree with that?
LONG: Anything good takes work.
ROCK: Yes. Yes, it takes a little work, a little, a little ...
LONG: ...product
ROCK: A little TLC.
HOLMES: How much work for both of you, how much work and TLC did this take? How much work and TLC did that take?
LONG: Oh! HOLMES: I didn't mean to say it like that.
ROCK: This takes a lot less ...
LONG: This actually took, this morning -- 20 minutes.
ROCK: Twenty minutes, but 20 minutes with engineers and architects.
Just yesterday my daughter came into the house and said, daddy, how come I don't have good hair? I wonder how she came up with that idea?
LONG: Within the black community, if you have good hair, you're prettier or better than, the lighter, the brighter, the better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to go like this, like Farrah Fawcett.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are so many impressions just written in your hair.
ROCK: Look, my ring still there.
LONG: Black hair is a big issue. What's more beautiful, straight? Straight hair or curly kinky hair? And it's been a huge issue within the community and I think you look at sort of their journey of black women and their hair, we've tried to assimilate to the images of white women, where their hair has been straighter or blond or lighter, and this is a great film simply because it creates awareness.
It's really a conversational piece, this film and your hair, but ultimately if you're OK with who you are on the inside and you're OK with sort of your own spiritual sense of self, then it really doesn't matter what your hair is doing. That's why it could be looking crazy and it's still good hair.
ROCK: Has anybody ever tried to steal your hair?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ROCK: If you see some black women, just run the other way.
My daughters, I just wanted to -- I wanted this document to exist. You know what I mean? There hasn't been a movie about black women's hair. And it's such a rich, rich, rich topic that can be used educationally and comedically. And when I say comedically, I'm not making fun of black women with this movie at all, and I'm not judging anybody who happens to be doing anything to their hair. You know I'm -- there's lots of movies with me with a Jheri curl that exist. There's a few.
LONG: And that was by choice by the way.
ROCK: That was a choice. LONG: The Jheri curl was a choice.
ROCK: Choice. Pookie has a Jheri curl in "New Jack City."
Tell us how dangerous relaxer is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hydroxide will burn through your skin.
ROCK: So that can has got a good perm.
HOLMES: What do you tell your daughters? That was kind of part of the reason behind the movie. Had an incident, one of them saw another girl's hair and thought that was good hair or straight hair?
ROCK: Yes, my daughter was raving so much about her friend's hair (INAUDIBLE). It was like when my wife raves about somebody else's house, it's a really nice house.
Is your hair addicted to relaxers?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am on the creamy crack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Creamy crack.
ROCK: So what's in your hair now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a weave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a weave, two pieces here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know like extensions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like that.
ROCK: You know at the end of the day, it's fashion in a sense. You know, it's an accessory. And if you're changing it because it's an accessory, it's great. If you're changing it because you want to be somebody else, then that's a problem there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The black hair business is a $9 billion business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably $5,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well I have a layaway plan.
ROCK: So you can lay away the wig?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.
ROCK: Have you ever put your hands through a black woman's hair?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man no, not a black woman's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just don't touch it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not touch my weave.
ROCK: Does your wife let you touch her hair?
AL SHARPTON: The question is, do I let her touch mine?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: OK, yes. Well, you know, he's funny. He's going to put a comedic spin on anything.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: But some people are not feeling this movie.
NGUYEN: Really?
HOLMES: Being criticized a lot by a lot of black women, a lot of black journalists, a lot of black writers.
NGUYEN: Saying what?
HOLMES: Saying essentially that he's making a point that black women are doing this to look white as some of the criticism, because they want to look like white women.
They think he doesn't examine. White women, of course, do a lot to their hair as well, other cultures. They just feel like a bull's eye is on black women. They feel like they are being examined, put under a microscope, criticized and made fun of.
NGUYEN: But it's not a documentary. In fact, it's pretty comical, wasn't it?
HOLMES: He wanted to make ...
NGUYEN: I mean, he makes a point to make sure that this is funny, folks.
HOLMES: Yes. I want you to know what this is.
NGUYEN: Yes. This is not a true examination.
HOLMES: Chris Rock being funny. Some true themes in there, and he goes and he looks and traces it back so some informational stuff, but it's funny. And also, he was sued.
NGUYEN: Over this?
HOLMES: Someone tried to block the movie from coming out, claiming that he had stolen their idea. Another rogue movie that came out ...
NGUYEN: Not their hair, but their idea.
HOLMES: The idea. It's -- not the hair. It's called "My Nappy Roots" was the name of that movie several years back. A documentary film. So, it's funny, but there's some controversy surrounding it.
NGUYEN: The creamy crack and all.
HOLMES: The creamy crack, yes.
So, please, by all means, let us know.
We know we've been talking about this story this morning. But also ...
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: And that's not a weave, by the way, folks. That's the real deal.
HOLMES: Seriously, Betty, come on.
NGUYEN: I'm just saying.
HOLMES: Seriously.
NGUYEN: Just put it out there.
HOLMES: It's OK. It looks good.
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: No, I told you, it's mine. It is all mine.
HOLMES: It is. You paid for it. Of course, you have a receipt.
NGUYEN: It was not paid for.
HOLMES: All right. Well, you can comment on our blogs, also on our Facebook, Twitter, about Betty's hair. Whatever questions you may have.
NGUYEN: It's real.
HOLMES: Whatever it maybe.
NGUYEN: Today's version, that is.
HOLMES: Let's go ahead and toss to Josh.
NGUYEN: Yes. Shall we do that?
We're going to move on from this, too.
Hey, why not the H1N1. No, because it's perfectly in line with what we're talking about.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, leave me with the transition.
Well, I'll tell you what. It's actually a good interaction. I'll show you guys later about black hair from iReport. We'll get to that. But we also have this for you today. Interactions about H1N1, including this that you can literally watch the spread of the H1N1 virus, anywhere, including in your city. Coming up, we're going to show you how you can zoom in right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Good morning, everybody. And welcome back.
We're going to check the top stories for you right now.
One of the pilots of that commercial jet that overshot his destination by 150 miles is defending the crew. The first officer, Richard Cole, spoke to CNN affiliate KGW and he said that he and his co-pilot were not asleep, and they were not arguing.
So what were they doing?
Northwest flight 188 left San Diego Wednesday evening en route to Minneapolis. Authorities at one point did believe the plane may have been hijacked.
HOLMES: Well, Iran saying just give us a little more time. The director of the International Atomic Energy Agency gave Iran until yesterday to decide whether it will agree to a deal that could help end the showdown over its nuclear activities. However, Tehran said it's studying the draft proposal and won't have a response ready until next week.
NGUYEN: Health officials say a 6-year-old who died, Sunday, tested positive for the H1N1 flu virus. And her school near San Francisco has been shut down for cleaning and is expected to reopen on Tuesday.
HOLMES: All right. Well, public health departments across the country are actually running out of the H1N1 vaccine. We've been waiting for this vaccine all this time, and now that it's out, not as much as we thought we were going to have. Actually, we're already running out of it. People are getting nervous.
NGUYEN: Yes, it's a big problem. And it could be an even bigger one as we go into this flu season.
Our Josh Levs is here to show us how to follow the actual spread of the virus online as if we needed to be worried about anything else.
LEVS: I know. Add to the fears, right? But this is interesting. We're talking about being a big concern. You can actually see how big a concern it is. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to show you all how to track this online. You don't need to write down the Web site, because at the end, I'll show you one place where it all is.
This is what it looks like. Anywhere in the world you can zoom into your area, and every place that you see a little mark, basically, is a reported case of H1N1. But what they have now is a new feature that I'll show you on this video here. Let's go to that. What happened is they've traced the progression. So I'm going to show you now what it looked like around the world -- October 6, October 7, October 8. And you can see as you follow this each day how quickly it's spreading. How many more reported cases there are, and it just keeps going all the way up to today.
This is all from the "New England Journal of Medicine." These are all cases in which is believed to be H1N1. And you can see it spreads and spreads and spreads.
And I pulled up on the screen right behind me just looking at the United States where things are right now. So if you come back to that, every place that you see one of these, you can actually click and get some information about what's being said there. You can even zoom in to your specific state, your city. Find out about these cases.
Now, there's a couple other links you should know about, too. Google flu trends is doing something interesting here. They have this theory that in a place where there's a lot of people who are getting H1N1 virus, there's going to be a lot of people searching for information about what to do.
So they're actually tracing how often people are searching. So let me actually use the keyboard on this. It's a little bit better. You can zoom in there. For example, you see North America is in red, Canada is, and so is the United States. Flu activity high.
They're basing that on the number of searches that they're getting. And we can zoom over east here, too. You can see that they're saying, OK, in this part of the world, different amount of searching going on right now.
One more key site to know about right here, Flu.Gov, which also has a lot of information directly from the government. But a lot of this you can get at CNN. And I'll show you this right here -- CNN.com/H1N1. It will take you right to this.
It will give you information about what to do, how to protect yourself. Where a lot of the latest cases are all right here CNN.com/H1N1, including understanding the virus and finding out what you should do to protect yourself. Key steps that you can take to protect yourself.
You can zoom in to that for a second so everyone can see some of the major steps that CNN and I and Dr. Sanjay Gupta and others are recommending people to take note.
All right, let's just go to the graphic, and what you'll see here is the link to absolutely everything. CNN.com/Josh, Facebook and Twitter. It has links to everything I showed you just now. So you'll be able to zoom in to your city. Find out how to protect yourself. Find out about other cases inside your area. All at the links we have for you right there, guys. So, hopefully, this will help give people information, Betty and T.J., that can help them protect themselves and maybe even prevent some spreading in there. NGUYEN: Yes. You may want to keep them inside the house, and I don't want to go anywhere.
LEVS: Wear a mask. Stay at home.
NGUYEN: You see a lot of them in their neighborhood. But, hey, information is key.
Thank you, Josh.
LEVS: Thanks, guys.
HOLMES: And we're going to be turning next to a militant hideout, which was attacked overnight in Pakistan. We'll be live in Islamabad to get the latest on a breaking story this morning.
NGUYEN: Also how the president is handling his job. A look at the approval ratings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, hello, everybody, on this Saturday morning.
Welcome back. I'm Betty Nguyen.
HOLMES: And hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes.
Glad you could be here with us this Saturday morning.
A few of our top stories. More bank failures to tell you about. Four more we can add to the bunch; the number now at 106 for the year. Three failed in Florida, one in Georgia, another in Wisconsin, another in Minnesota, another in Illinois. I said four you. Do the math and I think that's more like six, or so.
Well, the federal fund that actually covers the bank failure, the FDIC that insures your money in there, up to $250,000. That fund is up to $7.5 billion. That is down because it was over $45 billion a year ago.
NGUYEN: All right. Here's a story that has people talking this morning. One of the pilots of that commercial jet that overshot its destination by 150 miles, well, he is defending the crew. Northwest Flight 188 left San Diego on Wednesday evening en route to Minneapolis. There was speculation pilots may have been asleep, even arguing with each other.
Well, First Officer Richard Cole spoke CNN affiliate KGW.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIRST OFFICER RICHARD COLE, PILOT ON NORTHWEST 188: Nobody was asleep in the cockpit and no arguments took place. But other than that, I can't tell you anything that went on, because we're having hearings this weekend, we're having hearings on Tuesday. All that information will come out then. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No arguments took place? I mean, that's the statement that's out there all over the place.
COLE: There were no arguments at all in the cockpit. There was -- that wasn't even an issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: All right. So no arguments, no sleeping; what were they doing? They could not -- the tower did not have radio contact with this plane for an hour and 18 minutes. And, in fact, at one point authorities believe that the plane may have been hijacked.
All right, on to another story for you this morning. New Jersey police, they're searching for the killer of a well regarded priest. Reverend Ed Hynes was found dead in the rectory of St. Patrick's Church in Chatham yesterday. Investigators say he was wearing his clerical robes, there is no word on a motive.
There's information this morning about a hideout used by a senior Taliban leader in Pakistan that has been hit in a suspected drone- missile attack; 14 people reported dead. CNN's Ivan Watson is in Islamabad. He joins us now live from .
Ivan, who was this Taliban leader and what do we know about the strike on his suspected hideout?
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.
Yes. Two missiles, that local officials are telling us, struck this district of Bajaur. It's on the border with Afghanistan, a mountainous region that the Pakistani military said it cleared out in 2008 in an operation then. The target of this attack is described as a senior Taliban leader named Maulvi Faqir.
And among the 4 people, according to one local official, was one of Maulvi Faqir's nephews and one of his son in laws. Now, while this drone strike too place in Bajaur we are into the eight day of a Pakistani military offensive into another border district called South Waziristan. This is definitely a Taliban stronghold.
And today the Pakistani military, one senior military official tells CNN that a key village in that district was captured after eight days of fighting, the town of Kotkai, that is the home town of the leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Hakimullah Mehsud, Betty.
NGUYEN: All right. Let me ask you this, Islamabad. Any indication that perhaps it may even be under siege because there have been several militant attacks there within just the past two weeks. I mean, what do people on the street think?
WATSON: Betty, I just got back here after being away for five months. And there's definitely a different atmosphere here. There's a lot of fear and anxiety because this town has been hit no less than four times in the last two weeks. It's definitely a valuable target for the militants. This is not a one-sided war taking place far away in remote mountains on the border. It's come home to the key cities in the center of Pakistan. And we talked to some of the residents of this town, who have been affected by these attacks, by these waves of suicide bombings.
Let's take a listen to what some of them had to say, Betty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON (On camera): Do you think there will be more attacks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course. I think during that time when our army will not get completely control on those areas, at that time, till that time, many blasts --
DR. SERVA JAVED, PIMS HOSPITAL: Anyone can throw a bomb at us, any time. So we're all at risk. A lot of fear, a lot of psychological trauma, the emotional trauma, is going on in every city in Pakistan, my country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suddenly, all those warnings started. You can't come outside because of bomb terrorists. It's a lot of dangers to your life, so that's why we can't come out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: And just to give you a sense of the reality of this conflict, Betty. In the last two weeks, a senior army officer has been gunned down in broad daylight in the center of Islamabad. The general headquarters of the Pakistani military, the equivalent of the Pentagon, was attacked by militants. The United Nations' World Food program was attacked by a suicide bomber. And in addition to that a university here was attacked. And the government actually closed schools this week as a precautionary measure to protect resident of this city -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Goodness. Ivan Watson joining us live. Thank you, Ivan.
HOLMES: We'll turn to some presidential politics here now. The policies of president Obama may be taking a bit of a hit but Americans still seem to approve of the way he's handling his job, at least according to a CNN poll.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser runs down the latest numbers for us this morning. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning, Betty, T.J.
It appears that President Barack Obama remains personally more popular than his policies; 55 percent of Americans give Mr. Obama a thumbs up on the job he's doing in the White House, that according to our new CNN Opinion Research Corporation national poll.
That's pretty much in line with other recent surveys which put the president's approval rating in the low to mid-50s. But look at the issues Mr. Obama is dealing with.
On the economy, still issue number one. Our poll suggests Americans are divided, with 43 percent saying the president's programs are making things better, an nearly an equal amount saying they're not. Another 13 percent feel that Mr. Obama's plans are not making a difference yet, but will help the economy down the road.
How about another top issue? Health care reform. Our survey indicates the country slid dead even when it comes to supporting what the president is proposing. But a slight majority do say that passing Mr. Obama's plan is better than letting the current health care system remain the same.
Well, one things Americans agree on. They aren't happy with Congress. Less than three in ten people we questioned say they think lawmakers are doing a good job with both Democratic and Republican leaders getting poor grades. With a year to go before major congressional elections that could spell trouble for incumbents fighting to stay in office -- Betty, T.J.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: All right. OK, we saw some numbers there. There's a few more numbers for you this morning. The name that says it all, the Seven-Patty Burger. Look at that thing!
HOLMES: Oh, I love this thing.
NGUYEN: It's ridiculous.
HOLMES: Great. It looks delicious.
NGUYEN: I think it would take you a month to eat.
HOLMES: However, why not just make one big patty? Why you have to do seven?
NGUYEN: That thick, though?
HOLMES: This thing has enough calories to feed a whole family, but some individuals are taking this thing on. We're going to tell you exactly ...
NGUYEN: How can you get your -- yeah? You are you going to get that down?
HOLMES: We'll tell you where, and also why, this thing is being served. Stay here.
NGUYEN: Holy cow!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: This year's pouring rain could drive up prices on produce at the grocery store.
NGUYEN: Unfortunately, some farmers in Iowa say they have grown lots of soybeans and record amounts of corn. But the problem? The rain. Apparently it hasn't stopped long enough to dry the crops enough to be harvested.
HOLMES: Let's turn now, easy transition, to our Meteorologist Bonnie Schneider.
What's going on in the weather department?
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: Let's check the top stories for you right now.
One of the pilots of that commercial jet that overshot its destination by 150 miles is defending the crew. First Officer Richard Cole spoke to CNN affiliate KGW. He says he and the co-pilot were not asleep, and they were not arguing. So the big question to day is, what were they doing? Northwest Flight 188 left San Diego Wednesday evening en route to Minneapolis. Authorities at one point believed the plane may have been hijacked.
HOLMES: Health officials say a six-year-old who died Sunday tested positive for H1N1. Her elementary school near San Francisco has been shut down for cleaning. It is expected to reopen on Tuesday.
NGUYEN: Iran says it needs more time to consider a proposal to end a showdown over its nuclear activities. The International Atomic Energy Agency gave Iran until yesterday to decide whether it will agree to a deal. Well, Tehran says it is studying the proposal and will respond next week. Meanwhile Iran state media reports international officials will inspect a newly disclosed nuclear facility today.
HOLMES: Well, small businesses, of course, crucial to the economy. And the White House plans to free up funds for the small banks that support them.
NGUYEN: Yeah. President Obama talked about that this morning on his radio and internet address to the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over the past couple of years, small businesses have lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Many have struggled to get the loans they need to finance their inventories and make payroll. Many entrepreneurs can't get financing to start a small business in the first place, and many more are discouraged from even trying because of the crushing costs of health care. Costs that have forced too many to cut benefits, shed jobs, or shut their doors for good.
Small businesses have always been the engine of our economy, creating 65 percent of all new jobs over the past decade and a half, and they must be at the forefront of our economy. That's why the recovery act was designed to help small businesses expand and create jobs. It's provided $5 billion worth of tax relief, as well as temporarily reducing or eliminating fees on SBA loans and guaranteeing some of these loans up to 90 percent, which has supported nearly $3 billion in new lending to more than 33,000 businesses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, the president says the goal is to get credit, of course, where it is needed the most, the businesses that support families, sustain communities, and create the jobs that power this economy.
NGUYEN: All right. This morning you're waking up, may be a little hungry? This may not be on the plate this morning, but think about it in the afternoon, perhaps. A seven-layer burger.
HOLMES: Seven patties.
NGUYEN: Check that out.
HOLMES: That looks good.
NGUYEN: Does it really?
HOLMES: I'd love that.
NGUYEN: No.
HOLMES: OK, that looks ridiculous.
NGUYEN: Look at how huge that thing is?
HOLMES: Sorry. How can you get this ...
NGUYEN: Oh, my goodness.
HOLMES: She works for us, folks.
NGUYEN: Yes. She does.
HOLMES: That's Kyung Lah in there.
NGUYEN: Look at the grease spitting out of that.
NGUYEN: Ate the whole thing, our reporter did. We'll explain, though, where you can buy this thing and exactly why.
NGUYEN: And how many calories are in it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: You know, some people say there's never too much of a good thing. Well, I don't know. Check this out. A whopper of a deal in Japan, if you're really, really hungry. HOLMES: Yes. Apparently our reporter, Kyung Lah, was pretty hungry. She eats a burger that's just about -- she's a little thing, but it's as big as her hand, but take a look and let her explain and show you how she ...
NGUYEN: Inhales it.
HOLMES: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This week Microsoft is launching, in Japan, Windows 7, its new operation system. In a promotional move it decided it wanted additional publicity so it decided to join with Burger King and launched the Windows 7 Whopper.
So there are seven patties on the Windows 7 Burger. And for this week at every single Burger King in Japan you can buy this for 777 yen, only the first 30 customers. That's about $8.50 U.S., about $9 U.S. That is about 791 grams of meat, which is just under a kilo, but also about 1.7 pounds.
In case you're wondering who would eat all of this, we actually found some people who are eating it, but not everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked good, but I don't know if I could keep all that down, so I went with the Double Whopper.
LAH (voice over): In Japan's economic slowdown, McDonald's has seen record profits, fast, big portion food at low prices. Burger King has a smaller market share, but hopes this joint promotion in tech-loving Tokyo will generate buzz and business.
(On camera): My turn. In case you're wondering, 2,120 calories. A whole day's calorie in take.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: I cannot believe she ate the whole thing.
HOLMES: Wow.
NGUYEN: A whole day's worth of calories.
HOLMES: In one sitting.
NGUYEN: Seven patties.
HOLMES: Might as well get them out of the way.
NGUYEN: Did you see that one guy when he was taking a bite into it? The grease was just coming down. And I heard someone say, and this was a quote after. It wasn't from Kyung Lah. It was from one of the persons who said it. Said, I need a shower. I've got grease all over me.
HOLMES: A good burger should be greasy.
NGUYEN: But should it have seven meat patties on it?
HOLMES: No, it's a promo -- we get it. We get it. What did she say, a pound and -- 1.7 pounds, I think.
NGUYEN: It's ridiculous.
HOLMES: That's impressive, Kyung Lah.
NGUYEN: Yes. Maybe she should join like the hot dog-eating contest. Going to give Kobayashi a run for his money, or something. Kyung, hey!
All right. We're going to move right along, shall we?
They say they were not asleep, OK? They say they were not arguing. What were they doing because two Northwest Airlines pilots insist they were actually in deep conversation.
HOLMES: That was the first excuse, after the fact.
NGUYEN: Yes. When they missed their destination, by how much?
HOLMES: Just a mere 150 miles. One of the pilots you will hear from, talking to a reporter saying, hey, we were just up there chilling.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: OK. We're playing the song "She Works Hard For The Money." And we're showing our guy -- the guy, the lone guy in the control room, in the back. Show him again. We only have what, two guys, working in the back. Say hello to him. There he is.
NGUYEN: There he is, Rick.
HOLMES: But we have a new control room here.
NGUYEN: An improved control room. Check that. Look at all those buttons. Rick, what do you do with all those buttons? Is there an eject button in there?
HOLMES: He uses about three of them.
NGUYEN: I'm sure. And there's our producers, they're sitting along that row. All right. Very proud of our new control room. We have some things actually coming on the way next year a far as ...
HOLMES: Do you want to give it away now?
NGUYEN: No, don't want to give it away. As far as toys we'll be having some the show which is very good, some new and improved things. But in the meantime, though, we want to give you some new details on that balloon drama that has captured the nation's attention last week.
HOLMES: Are we still talking about this thing?
NGUYEN: Yeah, unfortunately.
HOLMES: Turns out now according to documents there was a confession not from the six-year-old, who everybody thought was in that balloon. I say, everybody, at least the public thought. But one of the parents actually tipped off authorities that this whole thing was a hoax.
Adam Chodak with our CNN affiliate KUSA in Colorado has more, including how the plan was hatched and exactly why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAM CHODAK, KUSA REPORTER (voice over): The act was convincing.
RICHARD HEENE, ACCUSED OF PLANNING HOAX: I'm really sorry I yelled at him.
CHODAK: First there was the tear-filled, post-attic news conference. And then there was that expletive-filled home filmed video. And then to top it off you had the 911 call where quiet Mayumi Heene gave quite a performance.
MAYUMI HEENE (911 AUDIO): We've got to get my son.
911 OPERATOR: OK, hang on just one second, don't hang up.
CHODAK: Then on CNN, the story started to crumble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did this for a show.
CHODAK: The Larimer County sheriff then confirmed everyone's suspicion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been determined that this has been a hoax.
CHODAK: But Friday the hard evidence arrived. This is the paper work the sheriff's office put together to justify a search of the Heene home. At the very end of the affidavit, the investigator says Mayumi Heene came clean on the whole deal. Specifically, she said, she lied to police.
The investigator also said Mayumi admitted, quote, "The motive for the fabricated story was to make the Heene family more marketable for future media interest." And they had, quote, instructed their three children to lie to authorities, as well as the media, regarding this hoax."
9 News legal analyst Scott Robinson says the confession is key for prosecutors in this case, but has its limits.
SCOTT ROBINSON, LEGAL ANALYST: If Richard Heene goes to trial, neither her confession, nor her testimony, can be used against him if he invokes the privilege that spouses have.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Wow. The 911 call just got me.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes, the crying and all of that. And then go on and say we instructed our children to lie to authorities and the media.
All right, folks. You've got to have something to say about this. We know you do. Reach out to us, Facebook and Twitter. In fact, some of you have already left comments. I want to go to my Facebook site, really quickly.
Larissa Carroll says, "That is sick. Why would you involve your young children in this? It's teaching them do anything for attention, and that it is OK to lie and break the law? Great parents."
Then quickly let's go to Twitter, and Nicholas Gomez says, "That's just shameful? I mean, what else can you say about it? It is just shameful. When you listen to those 911 tapes, you just want to cringe."
HOLMES: Yes. But they're trained actors. Like they said, they went to acting school. And they were putting on an act for everyone. And everyone, unfortunately, everybody was concerned for this child, genuine concern about this boy.
NGUYEN: When you have authorities chasing down this balloon, worried that a child is inside of it, you're going to go with what is real until you find out otherwise. So let us know what you think. Again, you can reach out to Facebook, Twitter, our blog, also weekends@cnn.com.
HOLMES: Meanwhile, though, we're at the top of the hour here; 7 a.m., where we sit here, in Atlanta, Georgia.
This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING. So glad you could be with us here, on this October 24. I'm T.J. Holmes.
NGUYEN: Good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. Thanks for starting your day with us. We we've got a lot coming up this next half hour.
The big question is what were those pilots doing to cause them to overshoot the airport by 150 miles? Yes, not a few feet, 150 miles. At first we thought they were arguing, perhaps even maybe even asleep.
HOLMES: That's what they say.
NGUYEN: One of the pilots says no, neither is correct. So, what is it? I'm going to talk to former director of the NTSB to try to get some information on this. Exactly what went down.
HOLMES: Also, coming up this morning, keeping an eye on what's going on in Afghanistan. There will be run-off elections that will happen there in two weeks. So, how will that affect U.S. forces on the ground? How will that affect the president's decision about possibly sending more U.S. forces to Afghanistan?
My interview with the retired general -- just two minutes away.
NGUYEN: But first, let's begin with some breaking news out of Pakistan. A drone attack on the house of a suspected Taliban leader, it happened in the city of Damadola. Fourteen people killed, including three foreigners.
Also, we're going to give you some other stories for you that we've been working on overnight. The number of failed U.S. banks is over 100 so far this year. Yeah. It stands at 106. The federal fund that covers bank failures now stands at $7.5 billion, which is down from $45 billion a year ago.
HOLMES: Also, we were just talking about a moment ago, the balloon boy's mom -- there she is -- admitting now they made the whole stunt up for publicity. This is according to court documents that have come out now. Her name is Mayumi Heene.
She has confessed to police, telling them that the plan was hatched in the week before and that they have told their kids to lie to the media and lie to police. Attorneys for the Heenes did not immediately return CNN's calls for comment.
NGUYEN: Well, international inspectors are in Iran today to inspect a newly-disclosed nuclear facility. The visit comes as Iran says it needs more time to decide on a proposal that could help end the showdown over its nuclear activities. Now, the International Atomic Energy Agency gave Iran until yesterday to decide on the proposal. Tehran says it will have a response next week.
And one of the pilots in that Northwest plane that overshot its destination, again, by 150 miles, says no one in the cockpit was asleep or arguing at the time when they didn't even have radio contact with this plane for an hour and 18 minutes.
HOLMES: What were they doing then, Betty?
NGUYEN: That is the big question. That's the mystery today.
HOLMES: The first one, when they say they weren't asleep, OK, maybe you could try to buy the excuse that they were in a heated argument and just kind of lost situation awareness, is what came out.
NGUYEN: For an hour and 18 minutes?
HOLMES: Yes. It was a heated conversation, Betty.
NGUYEN: It must have been heated.
HOLMES: But now, they're saying it wasn't even that. Flight 188, it was en route from -- Wednesday from San Diego heading to Minneapolis, air flight controllers cannot determine why the plane overshot its mark.
Our Tom Foreman is taking a look at this one for us. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the time it passed over Denver, Flight 188 had air traffic controllers in the dark for an hour and 18 minutes. There was not one radio call from the plane, not one response to calls from the ground. Tonight, one of the pilots said they were not asleep as some have speculated.
PILOT RICHARD COLE, NORTHWEST FLIGHT 188 PILOT: Nobody was asleep in the cockpit, and no arguments took place.
FOREMAN: But that leaves plenty of troubling questions.
(on camera): First, even with this plane traveling out of contact, more than 500 miles an hour, for more than an hour, military officials have now confirmed to CNN that they were not contacted by the FAA until the plane had passed over the city of Minneapolis. At that time, the military scrambled to launch at least four fully-armed F-16 fighters, but that was so late that they never got off the ground before the airliner was finally re-contacted.
(voice-over): Passengers like Anne Kroshus, who was in row 20 say throughout the process, the cockpit and cabin crew gave them no hint of any trouble, another curious revelation.
ANNE KROSHUS, NORTHWEST FLIGHT 188 PASSENGER: If any of us had known that was going on, I'm sure the entire flight would have been in a complete state of panic. But I think it's better that we didn't know. But I'm glad that they were at least trying to look out for us because I don't think the pilots were.
FOREMAN (on camera): Indeed, she says, for 45 minutes as they shot past their arrival time, passengers were told nothing at all, and when the captain finally spoke up again, he said they were just waiting to land.
KROSHUS: We were just, you know, completely under the impression that it was just air traffic and that Minneapolis airport was not giving us clearance to land and that basically we were just going fly around until they allowed us to do so. And that's what we all believed.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Air traffic controllers weren't sure what they believed. Authorities say when they had last re-contacted the pilots, the pilots' answers were so vague they were ordered to take the plan through a series of unnecessary maneuvers to prove it was under their control, not hijacked.
Investigators have seized the cockpit voice recorder even though they believe it only conversation from only the last 30 minutes of flight.
(on camera): And they are questioning the pilots. Police say both voluntarily took and passed breathalyzer tests. But for all of that, the central question remains: what happened on Flight 188?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: All right. Let's break this down a little bit more, shall we?
One of the pilots, Richard Cole, says he doesn't really know the other pilot that well and he calls the entire episode a nightmare. But as far as what happened in that unaccounted for hour and 18 minutes -- well, here's his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLE: Nobody was asleep in the cockpit, and no arguments took place. But other than that, I cannot tell you anything that went on because we're having hearings this weekend, we're having hearings on Tuesday. All that information will come out then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: OK. So, nobody was asleep, nobody was arguing. What were they doing?
Peter Goelz, the former managing director of the NTSB joins me by phone.
Peter, please tell me. You've got some kind of clue because we're scratching our heads here.
PETER GOELZ, FMR. MANAGING DIR., NTSB (via telephone): Listen, I don't have a clue.
(LAUGHTER)
GOELZ: This is -- this is perplexing and disturbing as anything, you know, I've seen in aviation safety.
NGUYEN: You know, hey, Richard, it's one thing if -- Peter, I should say, it is one if it was just, you know, for a minute or two, maybe 20 perhaps. But they had no radio contact with the tower for an hour and 18 minutes. The tower's trying to reach them not only by radio but by data message, by cell phone.
I mean, there are many avenues in which they tried to reach these pilots. What in your mind goes on in a cockpit that would keep them from answering any of these modes of communication?
GOELZ: Listen, this is -- this is completely inexplicable. And -- but it does -- you know, it does underscore the importance that air carriers train their -- and continue to train their cockpit crews in what they call cockpit resource management, which is that each pilot -- you know, each member of the crew has responsibilities, individual responsibilities, to see that the -- that the flight is concluded safely, that procedures are followed. It doesn't simply rest on the -- you know, it doesn't rest on the shoulders of the chief pilot, the person in the left seat. That everyone has to do it.
But this -- this is just completely inexplicable. And, you know, the co-pilot is right. We're going to have to sit and wait and see what the FAA and NTSB have to say.
NGUYEN: Well, the good thing in all of this is that the plane was able to land safely, even though it overshot its destination by 150 miles. But let me ask you about that in itself -- how dangerous is that considering that the plane may have just been on auto pilot? I mean, is that something that's fairly safe to do? Or does it ...
GOELZ: Well, sure. I mean...
NGUYEN: ... really put the folks on the plane in a precarious situation?
GOELZ: Yes. I mean, the plane -- even though they were out of communications with air traffic control, air traffic control knew where they were. The transponder, the device that identifies to air traffic controllers what flight it is, what altitude they're at...
NGUYEN: Yes, Peter, but if you don't know exactly what is going on inside that cockpit, why are you overshooting your destination -- I mean, they could have scrambled jets and there could have been a possibility of the plane being shot down.
GOELZ: Yes. Air traffic control is going to keep other planes away from, but it's going to raise the anxiety level, and at some point -- and apparently, they were getting close to that point, the air traffic control starts to declare that it is a hijacking event or that they are fearful that that the flight crew no longer has control of the plane, and that triggers a whole set of activity.
So, it is -- it is -- it is just inexplicable. It was -- and it was -- I mean, there was no immediate danger, but certainly, there was some long-term -- you know, there was -- it was not a correct situation.
NGUYEN: No, not at all. And sometimes, words don't even explain what could possibly have been going on in there. So, we're going have to wait. We're going to wait for these hearings. We're going to wait to find out exactly what these pilots have to say.
But Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB, thank you so much for your time and your insight this morning. We do appreciate it.
GOELZ: Thank you.
NGUYEN: OK. So, I know you at home have something to say about this story. So, let us know. Reach out to us on Facebook, Twitter. You can also go to our blogs, CNN.com/Betty, CNN.com/TJ. We want to hear from you today and we will be reading your responses on the air.
But, you know, we've already gotten a few of them -- well, several, in fact.
HOLMES: Yes.
NGUYEN: Keep them clean, will you, please? HOLMES: Please, please.
NGUYEN: We've already heard, you know, mile-high club and all that other stuff. Yes.
HOLMES: Come up with something else, please.
NGUYEN: Yes, something new, OK?
HOLMES: Thank you.
All right. Coming up here next, we're keeping an eye on elections happening over in Afghanistan. Not done just yet. We have a runoff to go through.
So, what does that mean for U.S. forces? Will this continue the delay the decision about possibly sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan? I'm going to be talking to a retired general right after the break.
NGUYEN: Looking forward to that.
And an unexpected hurdle for homeowners who are trying to get out of debt. I'm going to talk with our money man, Clyde Anderson -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Everybody is waiting to hear whether President Obama will send 40,000 additional U.S. forces into Afghanistan, but he might likely hold off on that decision until we know who'll be leading the country. The presidential election now in limbo, a runoff election set for two weeks from today. On the ballot is the incumbent, Karzai, and also the rival, you see there on the right, Abdullah Abdullah.
Abdullah served as foreign minister in Karzai's interim government, and not really a lot of love loss there.
Take a listen to what he told our John King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: President Karzai has been asked about the possibility of a negotiated settlement and he has said that that's simply not possible. He said it would have no legitimacy. But he also did tell our Fareed Zakaria that -- and it sounds like he means after the election because of the confidence in his voice. But that he is more than willing down the road to invite you into the government.
I want you to listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. HAMID KARZAI, AFGHANISTAN: If he was to come and work in my government, he's most welcome. I'm known for consensus and building it, and for inclusivity, and that's a good trademark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Is he, Dr. Abdullah, known for consensus and coalition- building and would you welcome a spot in a Karzai government should he win this election?
DR. ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, AFGHAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. I think I left Mr. Karzai's government some 3 1/2 years ago. And then since then, I have not been tempted to be part of that government. And my trust in becoming a candidate was not to be part of the same government, part of the same deteriorating situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Karzai may be widely favored to win that rematch. Take a look at this analysis by U.S.-based election monitoring group. In the first vote after fraudulent ballots were tossed out, Karzai had 48.3 percent of the vote. Abdullah received about 31.5 percent of the vote. Sorry, we don't have that graphic for you, but you get the point just me telling it to you here.
But if the first election was tainted by fraud, who's to say the next round -- there it is -- who says the next round won't be any different? And also, more importantly, for us here in the U.S., how does this affect U.S. troops?
Well, former NATO commander, retired Army General George Joulwan joins us now this morning.
How much does this complicate things, sir? Do we -- do you think it's wise, we need to wait to see who's going to be leading the country before we make a decision about sending more U.S. forces there?
GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I think so. Absolutely. It's important that when we do commit these forces that there's a legitimate government to work with. That's part of the overall strategy of McChrystal and I think of the United States, and by the way, of NATO.
So, you need a legitimate government. And if this election is run fairly without any fraudulent voting, et cetera, and then, I think we could say that whoever wins has won legitimately.
HOLMES: But, General, at the same time, could it possibly do more harm than good given that the situation as we know, we see day in and day out, seems to be deteriorating in a lot of ways in Afghanistan and any further delay just gives that situation more of a chance to really just keep rolling down the hill and building momentum in a bad way?
JOULWAN: I agree with you that, I believe Taliban does have the momentum and delay does favor them to a degree. But it's important we get the clarity right in the mission. We haven't done that for eight years. And I think it's important that that clarity come through of what is our mission, what is our purpose.
The meeting in Bratislava yesterday with all the defense ministers of NATO who, by the way, have the responsibility, along with the United States for Afghanistan, McChrystal briefed them. This gets the consensus you need. This gets the other things besides troops. All those other developmental agencies that build capacity in government, development -- all those things are important. And to do that, you need to get NATO and the international community involved.
So, I think it's important to get the mission right. And if that takes a little bit more time, so be it. But I think it's important.
HOLMES: Well, sir, explain to our viewers here, to the American public, how -- you know, this is the general on the ground. He says what he needs. Why doesn't he just get it? Why won't -- the policy makers just give this guy on the ground what he needs?
And you're used to having to deal with some things like this. So, explain if you can, right quickly, just how this is kind of a delicate dance and why, for a lot of people say, "Hey, this guy is in charge, he says this is what he needs to win, give it to him"?
JOULWAN: Because there is a process here of battle plans coming forward and believing to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the chiefs and the political side in the White House and elsewhere in Washington. And this has to be a political decision, not just a military decision. And sometimes that's not understood.
I think it's important for military commanders, like McChrystal, to get the clear military advice. He has done that. He's given his assessment. And what he has called for, he says, if you agree with that assessment, this is what I need do it.
So, they're trying to get the clarity in terms of a mission that I think is so important here. We haven't done that before. It's important to do it now.
HOLMES: And to wrap here, sir, you mentioned earlier, it's important to see a government there that is legitimate. Are we better off -- is the U.S., you think, better off with Karzai, quite frankly, because we've been dealing with him for quite some time? And you can argue the U.S. government knows him and knows what they're getting.
But -- I mean, how much do we know about Abdullah? How much would it really affect the U.S. mission if we have to almost start anew with a new leader and see which direction he wants to go?
JOULWAN: The key is legitimacy. If there is -- as we would call it -- a fair election, whichever one of them gets elected, I think we should be able to deal with them. I mean, that's the will of the Afghan people, and we ought to respect that. I think we could deal with either one.
So, I think it's a question of getting this election done fairly with international observers done correctly, and get that legitimacy that's so important in a counterinsurgency, or indeed any strategy that you come up with.
HOLMES: General George Joulwan, sir, we appreciate always your expertise, your insight, and your experience that we can lean on oftentimes. And as we were saying, I think you have a birthday coming up next month. I hope you don't mind me saying.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: He's going to be 70 and he looks great. So, sir, happy birthday to you. We appreciate you being here with us this morning.
JOULWAN: Thank you. My wife will appreciate that.
HOLMES: All right. You all have a good weekend.
NGUYEN: He does look fantastic.
HOLMES: He looks great.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: He looks great.
NGUYEN: All right. So, you just got back from a little training, shall we say, speaking of Afghanistan?
HOLMES: Speaking of Afghanistan, and this is going to be very important, quite frankly, to the mission. Fort Irwin out in California -- this is a place where they train U.S. troops to go to Iraq.
Well, look at this scene now here, folks. They're in the middle of the Mojave Desert. And as you look around...
NGUYEN: It looks like Iraq.
HOLMES: This looks like -- and that's the point. They have actors out here who recreate scenes. And what you're seeing here is -- these are actors. That's an attempted suicide -- I mean, this is detailed like you wouldn't believe to make these forces feel like they're in an Iraqi city.
I spent the week out there, camping with them literally in the Mojave Desert. You see this -- this is supposed to feel like Iraq.
NGUYEN: Oh, that's intense.
HOLMES: Just came back from this. You all -- we'll be doing these reports over the next days and weeks. Stay tuned for them.
But this is where I was for the week. Really, remarkable, something they're doing. But they might have to switch it up and start training more forces to get ready...
NGUYEN: For Afghanistan. HOLMES: ... for Afghanistan instead of Iraq. So, Fort Irwin, a very important place. So, I appreciate all that hospitality from the First Brigade, Third Infantry out there.
NGUYEN: So, you had endured a lot. Not only that, but sand storm, sleeping in tents, eating MREs. I guess that's why you brought me an MRE for breakfast this morning, right?
HOLMES: I appreciate you. You still brought me breakfast though, as always, Betty.
NGUYEN: I sure did.
HOLMES: I appreciate that.
NGUYEN: All right. Well, you know, you looked a little skinny after that assignment.
A government program that is supposed to provide mortgage relief -- it could actually hurt your credit score. We're going to show you how. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
NGUYEN: All right, folks. It is the curve ball most homeowners never expected. They take advantage of programs to lower their mortgages, government programs, mind you, and then end up trashing their credit. What?
Housing expert and author Clyde Anderson is here to sort all of this out for us.
All right. So how exactly does that work? This is a government- backed program. So, you're assuming that this is something that's pretty good for me. You know, I can get in on it. I can get some relief when it comes to my mortgage. But, actually, you're hurting your credit score?
CLYDE ANDERSON, HOUSING EXPERT: Well, a lot of times, the credit is already damaged.
NGUYEN: OK.
ANDERSON: I mean, this is a good program. I wouldn't, you know, say it's not a good program because it's helped a lot of people lower their mortgage payments that were in trouble. And that's what it was supposed to do, keep it from imminent danger. That we're getting ready to default...
NGUYEN: But is there imminent danger with your credit score?
ANDERSON: Well, it can be. And what happens is, the way they had it set up in the computer system, the way they're coding it a lot of times is a partial payment. And when they code it like that, they have to report it and it hurt your credit score. It could hurt it 140 points in some cases.
NGUYEN: So, what do you do?
ANDERSON: You really got to ask questions. In November, they're supposed to be changing it.
NGUYEN: OK.
ANDERSON: And so, they're supposed to really be coding it different, but we still don't know how that's going to affect your credit because they still may view you as some sort of a risk. So, you really just got to be careful, ask questions.
Find out how they're going to code it. How will it show in the system when they do this modification? You know, will they continue to report you late when you're starting out the programs? So, you really got to be careful with it.
NGUYEN: Yes. And we're talking about loan modifications specifically here.
ANDERSON: Right.
NGUYEN: So, should people just wait until November then?
ANDERSON: Well, you know, that's a hard one because it depends on where you are.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Yes. It's really close but it depends on where you are. But, again, in November, you're still going to want to make sure how that's going to affect your credit, because even though they changed the code, it may still affect it. It may not affect it as much...
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: You know, a lot of people when they go in for, you know, a loan modification, they're not thinking codes. They may not know what the code is.
ANDERSON: Right.
NGUYEN: So, I guess that's why it's important to watch the show.
ANDERSON: That's it. That's why we're here, you know? But, it's important, because they got to understand what they're getting into it and it is. A modification is going to lower their interest rate and make it more affordable for them to be on that house and just keep the house. That's the whole goal.
So, the government was doing something great by doing this. But a lot of times, when you're rolling out something like this, you've got so many moving parts.
NGUYEN: Right.
ANDERSON: You got lenders. You got the credit bureaus. Everybody needs to be in placed. And right now, there's a little bit of a backlog because people are still learning the program.
NGUYEN: All right. So, if you want that, a long modification, go ahead and get it, or you can wait until November when things are going to be changed a little bit as far as the codes go.
But, the key question is: how will this be coded, and I don't want it coded as a partial payment because I don't want it to hurt my credit score.
ANDERSON: Exactly. Exactly. And a lot of people that are going through this have already affected their credit score but not everyone. And that's a misconception. Now, people think, well, you have bad credit already that's why you needed the modification. Some people going through this had a great credit.
NGUYEN: Right.
ANDERSON: You know, they just needed to get that payment down before it adjusted or something happen when they did loose it.
NGUYEN: Got you. I'll tell you what, information is key.
ANDERSON: That's it.
NGUYEN: Clyde, thank you so much.
ANDERSON: My pleasure, Betty.
NGUYEN: T.J.?
HOLMES: All right. I'm still going through, I'm just listening. It's important stuff you all talked about this morning.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: Not that you don't talk about important stuff every weekend, Clyde.
ANDERSON: I appreciate that.
HOLMES: All right. Well, I know Clyde -- I'm not sure about you, Betty, but the baseball, the playoffs are going on right now. The Yankees, of course, are the biggest bank roll out there, but is it enough to buy a World Series Championship? We're talking money and baseball with our Rick Horrow in the next hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
