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CNN Saturday Morning News

The Future of Proposition 8

Aired August 07, 2010 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A busy weather day with two tropical storms brewing. Heat, yes, that's still happening, gripping much of the country but nothing as severe as people in western Russia. What they're having to deal with. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras, you're watching it all, Jacqui. Where do you do you want to start first?

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, let's start with Moscow. There's some amazing pictures. And take a look at this behind me. This is satellite from NASA. And what you see right here, this outline, this is smoke. That's not clouds. It's smoke. There are about 600 wildfires that are burning impacting 10 million people in Moscow alone.

Take a look at the pictures. You know, the biggest concern is the health of these people because the smog and the smoke is so thick. It's like smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. Record breaking heat has been gripping the area. 104 degrees is possible tomorrow.

Flights have been diverted in the area and, unfortunately, no breaks in the forecast. Good news for us is that we've got some breaks in our forecast in terms of temperatures. Much better across the upper Midwest and the northeast. Heat persists across parts of the south. It is going to be building in the nation's midsection over the next couple of days, so beware of that.

Pretty quiet in terms of thunderstorms with the exception of the upper Midwest later on today. CNN SATURDAY continues right after this. Right now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This case for us is about how we as Americans just want to be treated equally by our government and under the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All we're asking the court to do is make sure we are protected under our Constitution like every American is supposed to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's such a terrific moment today because now we're a giant step closer to restoring that basic freedom to marry in California.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a great tragedy. It is a fantastic attack upon our nation, our children and our families. So hopefully we'll have to rely on the Supreme Court now to save the nation. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge has dealt a terrible blow to natural marriage, the voters' rights, the constitution. You mark my words, if marriage can mean anything, then marriage ultimately will mean nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

T.J. HOLMES, CNN, ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. I'm T.J. Holmes. It is time every Saturday we dedicate this 9:00 Eastern half- hour to one hot topic that's been in the news this week. Of course, one of the biggest topics, Proposition 8 in California.

A district judge this week ruled that Proposition 8 which bans same-sex marriage is unconstitutional, struck it down. But that didn't mean that same-sex couples could run out and immediately start getting married. Instead, he issued a stay on his own decision meaning it is not in effect while the case is being appealed.

Now the state of California is asking that judge to lift that stay and allow same-sex marriages to resume immediately. This half- hour I'm talking live with the same-sex couple in California that would like to get married. Also talking to live this hour a member of Focus on the Family who says that couple and others like them should never be allowed to marry.

But we're going to begin with our Ted Rowlands reporting for us from California about the big battle ahead on the streets and in the courts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In San Francisco's Castro district and L.A.'s West Hollywood and downtown, the party went late into the night. Lisa Bartoli and Anita Zubere were married two years ago.

ANITA ZUBERE, SUPPORTS GAY MARRIAGE: We're in to the end. It is going to go to the Supreme Court and I think Americans are going to understand that we are people. We lead exciting lives, boring lives, we love our family, our friends, our children. And so it is a great day.

ROWLANDS: David Boies and Ted Olson, the attorneys that faced off against each other in 2000 for Bush v. Gore, teamed up successfully to argue this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the man who did that.

ROWLANDS: They took the stage together at a rally in West Hollywood.

TED OLSON, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: We're a part of the way to the end, but it is a very, very important first step.

DAVID BOIES, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: We are a nation of a culture and that culture is the culture of equality. ROWLANDS (on camera): The mood (INAUDIBLE) here in West Hollywood but the bottom line is Prop 8 did pass in the state of California and there are a lot of people not only here but across the country that are very upset with the judge's ruling.

RANDY THOMASSON, SAVECALIFORNIA.COM: Mark my words, if marriage can mean anything, then marriage ultimately will mean nothing.

ROWLANDS (voice-over): In the ruling, Judge Vaughn Walker wrote that Prop 8, "does nothing more than enshrine in the California constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same sex couples."

MAGGIE GALLAGHER, CHMN, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE: Seven million Californians believed that we had a core civil right to organize, to donate, to vote for marriage. One federal judge in San Francisco has stripped us of that core civil right.

ROWLANDS: The judge also issued a stay, meaning same sex couples will have to wait to be married until after the appeals process which both sides say they are looking forward to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: That's our Ted Rowlands reporting for us from California. Coming up, you will hear from both sides but up first, you're going to hear from someone who didn't really appreciate what the judge did this week, striking down Prop 8. A supporter of Prop 8 from Focus on the Family is going to join me live when we continue on this CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLSON: Well, the first thing to think about is that the right to marry is a fundamental right in the United States. It is a right that's protected by the Constitution. The Supreme Court has held over and over again that it may be one of our most fundamental rights to unite with a person that you love, to form a partnership.

ANDREW PUGNO, PROTECT MARRIAGE: Seven million Californians voted to preserve or restore what marriage has meant since the beginning of time and if they're not permitted to do something as basic as that, then there's something really wrong with our system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: A lot of people think this week's ruling in California striking down Proposition 8 could lead to a major step, the big step in legally redefining marriage in this country. Let me bring in Bruce Hausknecht, he is a judicial analyst with Focus on the Family, joining me this morning live.

Sir, I appreciate you being here. Let me just get your initial reaction when you heard the judge was striking down Prop 8 out there in California.

BRUCE HAUSKNECHT, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: Well, it was not unexpected, T.J.. We've known for months that the actions that this judge has taken since day one in the trial tilted in favor of striking down Prop 8. So we really weren't surprised but the breadth of the decision was - well, the only word I can use to describe it is overreach.

HOLMES: Overreach. Now, we often hear - and help us here - when a judge rules the way one side wants them to rule, then the judge got it right. If the judge ruled the way you didn't like the judge to rule, then the judge must have been up to something or he was leaning or he was favoring. Do you think possibly that good people and a good judge can possibly just see the law and see things differently from you?

HAUSKNECHT: There's no doubt that there are different judicial philosophies out there that view things like the 14th amendment differently. But this opinion really does not contain even one ounce of judicial humility. There's no doubt in this judge's mind about any of the evidence, about any of the history of 4,000 years of marriage.

He is convinced in his own mind that gender means absolutely nothing to either raising children or to the status of marriage and he says that with such confidence and with such arrogance that there's really no room to say anything other than it's quite breathtaking.

HOLMES: Now we talk about - and a lot of people talk about how long, the time, you mentioned just throughout time, thousands of years, we have known marriage as between a man and a woman. There are several states now, at least five, that recognize same-sex marriage as well as the District of Columbia. Is it possible that, you know, maybe we have been wrong all this time, that marriage doesn't have to be just between a man and a woman?

HAUSKNECHT: You know, if we want to have that debate, the proper place for that debate is in the state legislatures, it is on television, it's in public debate. It should not be in the courtroom of one federal judge in San Francisco. Our Constitution was never drafted to give that kind of power to federal judges and for him to make a decision that overrules seven million voters in California and decide for all of America really what the definition of marriage is, is just beyond belief.

HOLMES: Well, Bruce, let me make sure I have this right from you. It sounds like - I mean, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Iowa, just to name a few. But five states they did do this through the legislature. Do have you no problem with gay marriage in those states because a judge hasn't been involved and the legislature did it?

HAUSKNECHT: Well, actually those five states, the only ones that did it through the legislature is Vermont and New Hampshire, if I recall. Even in Vermont that all began with a court order from their Supreme Court saying you need to do this or else we'll do it for you.

HOLMES: But let me understand then. If a legislature, the state legislature, decides, yes, we're going to legalize gay marriage in our particular state, that is something you don't have a problem with as long as it is not in the hand of a judge.

HAUSKNECHT: Well, let me answer it this way, T.J., we have a problem with altering the definition of marriage but we really have a problem when one unelected and sitting-for-life judge decides what marriage is. We'd like to have the debate because we think in the court of public opinion and in those legislatures, that we can defend marriage and we can keep marriage the way it's been for thousands of years.

So it's not that we'd be happy with gay marriage if it came through the legislature, but that at least gives us a fighting chance to convince our fellow citizens what's best for marriage and best for kids.

HOLMES: Now, is your stance and the stance of Focus on the Family just against same-sex marriage, or do you have a broader objection to homosexuality in general?

HAUSKNECHT: Well, what we're really about is growing good families. We're about what's best for children. Children need a mom and a dad. That is instinctive to the species. We've known it as Americans for years. Decade's worth of social science research has said the same exact thing and now what we're seeing is a court overruling all of that and saying, look, for thousands of years we've been wrong about marriage, it's really been about subjugating women and now that we're more enlightened, we realized that gender doesn't play any part in it and therefore gender does not mean anything. Well, gender does mean something.

HOLMES: And again, I want to go back. I understand what you're saying there but I want to be clear on Focus and the Family and what you're saying this morning, Bruce, is there a real objection on your part or the part of Focus on the Family to homosexuality, short of going towards gay marriage, just homosexuality?

HAUSKNECHT: Well, homosexuality is not god's best plan for the human race. His sexuality, his plan for human sexuality is set forth in the Bible. We stand behind that. It's work for thousands of years. We know that in practice, those relationships that are ultimately formed around the family are the best and so we want to urge people to do what's best. Do what's best for the family.

HOLMES: And last thing here, I really do have to wrap this up but do you think - I mean, there are a lot of people that aren't necessarily religious in this country. It sounds like a foundation of really a lot of your arguments have to do with religion. Should that be what it's based on? Certainly if not everyone prays to the same god.

HAUSKNECHT: Well, no. Actually the interesting part about Christians and public policy is that public policy always stands on its own even though behind the scenes it is simply following the advice, the counsel of, wisdom, of god. So public policy can stand on its own. We know what's best for children because we've been studying it for years. And to charge religion as this judge has done in his decision with being the problem that's very offensive to Christians and on appeal, I hope this thing really gets turned around.

HOLMES: Well, Bruce Hausknecht, again with Focus on the Family. Sir, we really do appreciate you being here and sharing your views. And there's been so much back-and-forth as you know this week, and a lot of emotion on both sides. But we certainly appreciate being able to have a good, reasoned and toned conversation with you this morning, sir. We thank you so much. And you enjoy the rest of your weekend.

HAUSKNECHT: Thanks, T.J., enjoyed being here.

HOLMES: All right. We're going to have reaction to some of what you just heard. We're going to check in with a same-sex couple out in California. They're founders of a group out there called NoH8. They have a no-hate campaign. There they are. Joining us this morning. We'll talk to them right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUSTIN NIMOCKS, ATTORNEY, ALLIANCE DEFENSE FUND: It's really disappointing any time a single federal judge takes it upon himself to cancel out the voices of over seven million Californians.

KRISTIN PERRY, PLAINTIFF: With this decision, the system worked. Our courts are supposed to protect our constitutional rights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, mom. We're getting married again and again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, until the judge decides whether or not to lift his stay, of this week's ruling, same-sex marriage remains pretty much in limbo, in California right now. But some protest groups believe they can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Joining me this morning, co-founders of NOH8, the campaigns going on out there in California. Jeff Parshley and fashion photographer Adam Bousa who have been together some three-plus years now. Gentlemen, good morning to you both. Thank you so much for being here and certainly being with us early. I know it is early out there in California.

I want to start by asking you, just some reaction to what you heard from the gentleman I just talked to from Focus on the Family. I mean how do you react oftentimes when you hear oftentimes the argument on the other side comes out a little more aggressive, meaner, even hate-filled. But still, your reaction when someone has a legitimate concern and gripe and about whether or not you two should get married.

ADAM BOUSA, PHOTOGRAPHER, CO-FOUNDER, NOH8 CAMPAIGN: To me it comes across as confusion. I mean, they use - I mean, he complains that the judge is using religion as - citing that as a source of his problem but he easily went to religion as the solution to his problem. So I think the issue there would be the separation of church and state. I mean he definitely has some - I think there is some confusion, honestly, when I hear that.

HOLMES: Jeff, tell me how much this decision this week by the judge to strike down Proposition 8, tell me, in your opinion, how much of a difference does it make since it seems that in the long run, this case is going to end up before the Supreme Court.

JEFF PARSHLEY, CO-FOUNDER, NOH8 CAMPAIGN: Yes, well I mean I think that it's important that we sent this message across the country. It is not just a California issue anymore. I think people are starting to realize that it is more about human rights here. And I think it was a good step in the right direction. A lot of people are celebrating the decision but I think they need to also realize that it is, you know, it's a step in the right direction down the right road. But there is still a long ways to go.

HOLMES: Do you two want to get married? How important is that to you?

BOUSA: Yes.

PARSHLEY: Yes, of course.

BOUSA: Of course. I mean, initially we didn't go into that, with that. It was the fact that the option wasn't there. But now that we do have that personal investment, I mean it does add a level of passion for to us get more involved into the issue, for sure.

HOLMES: Do you all find yourselves - and you just talk about it there. I know sometimes the objections to same-sex marriage can come out as awfully hate-filled, you could say. But you also mentioned there, Adam, a second ago that it was also confusion. So can you all in some way even do you respect the other side of the argument in some ways? You call it confusion there, but do you respect that sometimes good people can disagree, people that have nothing against you but be good people and just don't see it the way you see it?

BOUSA: Yes, I mean, yes. Everyone is different. But I mean, that's essentially what we're trying to teach people, that everyone is different. You don't have to impose your beliefs on someone else. I mean, essentially what came with Proposition 8 was a ban imposing someone else's beliefs on to someone else. So we're just trying to educate people that everyone is different.

PARSHLEY: And it's OK for people to have different views and different opinions on things but it comes down to why do I not have the choice to make my own decision? They don't have to agree with the decision that I'm going to make, but I deserve the choice to make that decision for myself. I don't need somebody else making the decision for me. HOLMES: And you all mentioned that it is just a matter of educating and informing people a little better. Do you think some work needs to be done to educate and inform many of our elected leaders, including now the president of the United States who says he is about expanding rights to same-sex couples but he, too, is against same-sex marriage?

BOUSA: I mean, he's done a lot for our community but honestly, I mean, it is our job to hold him to his position and I honestly feel like he hasn't done enough. I mean, the fact that there's still military soldiers openly - openly out, soldiers being fired from the military just for being gay.

He's the commander in chief of our Army, he should be standing up for them. Showing respect for our community by respecting same-sex marriage says a lot about - I mean being a role model to the community. So I mean I feel like that is a huge part of who he is as being a role model so I think that would be an important step.

PARSHLEY: There is a lot of determination in this world as well and back in, you know, 50 years ago I'm sure his family saw some discrimination as well. And we hope that people stood by him in those times and we hope that he would stand by us in the times where we're being discriminated against as well.

HOLMES: And gentlemen, last thing you talked about educating people. I know through that your NoH8 campaign. I think we have some photos, we can show people but give us an idea here. You have had plenty of celebrities even, I believe, Adam, have been a part of your campaign. I guess what message are you trying to send and is this part of that education that you speak of?

BOUSA: Well, yes. It is about raising awareness. Every photo creates dialogue. When somebody sees a photo that doesn't know about the campaign they ask about it. You'd be surprised how many people in California really still don't know about Proposition 8. So I think the photos, you know, it gives a way for us to take the photos and to send them out to a mass majority of people and to create dialogue with it.

PARSHLEY: And it's an easy way for people to get involved. I mean, it's not just about gay marriage. It is about equality overall. Because I mean, there is a lot of other issues that can pertain to this. I mean, there is adoptions in other states, there's again don't ask, don't tell. And still the majority of states you can just be fired for being gay. So I mean, discrimination exists in many forms and hate needs to be ended.

HOLMES: Well, Jeff, Adam, gentlemen, I appreciate you all being with us this morning and sharing your story and your views and being a part of our conversation this morning. And we will keep up with you guys and we'll see what happens down the road. All right. But good luck with your campaign. We'll talk to you guys again soon. All right.

BOUSA: Thanks for having us, T.J.. PARSHLEY: Thank you, T.J.

HOLMES: All right. It's 26 minutes past the hour. Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: I want to update you again about a breaking news situation we're watching out of Afghanistan where six Americans are among the dead. Ten people killed all together but six of them dead, not talking about soldiers here. These were aid workers. The group called the International Assistance Mission.

According to their spokesperson, this group was shot. These members were shot, pulled out of the vehicle and shot execution style. Shot methodically.

Again, six U.S. aid workers. This was a group of doctors who were supplying aid. They had been working in that country, this particular organization, for some 40 years but in fact today we're getting word that six Americans are among the dead. A German, a Brit and also two Afghans.

The Taliban has come out and said, in fact, that they are responsible for this, taking credit for it from a web site. We are trying to independently confirm that but it's been a fast moving, a developing story this morning. We will continue to follow that and bring you more live updates at the top of the hour.

Right now, we're going to hand it over to "YOUR BOTTOM LINE."