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CNN Saturday Morning News
Sarkozy: "We are Intervening"; French Fighter Jets Flying Over Libya; Brazil Abstained from U.N. No-Fly Zone; NBA Team Helps Build Oklahoma City
Aired March 19, 2011 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: I just want to reset here for our viewers as we cross the top of the hour here on this CNN SATURDAY MORNING of what we have been watching.
We just saw the French President Nicolas Sarkozy step out just a few moments ago and tell the world that in fact, French planes are now -- French fighter jets are now in the skies above Libya right now apparently trying to impose that no-fly zone that in fact the U.N. Security Council voted on just Thursday night.
Also, the French President saying they will take any action necessary and take out the ground forces, or take out tanks on the ground that are going after Libyan people, innocent citizens, he says. And here's just a little bit of what he had to say a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS SARKOZY, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Participants agreed to use all the necessary means, in particular military means, to enforce the Security Council decisions. This is why in agreement with our partners, our Air Force will oppose any aggression by Colonel Gadhafi against the population of Benghazi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, the French President went on to say that, in fact, Gadhafi could still avoid the worst, also said that the diplomatic doors could be reopened if, in fact, Gadhafi did what the U.N. resolution stated, which is to impose an immediate cease-fire and stop attacking Libyan citizens. He said he could still come back to the diplomatic table.
Our CNN foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty is in Paris where she has been traveling with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Jill, hello to you once again. What will the U.S. role now be as it appears this no-fly zone and some actual a U.N. intervention is taking place?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Right. Well, it's easier to say in a sense what it won't be. And that is at this point, we understand that the UK, France and Canada will be carrying out these first air strikes. And that you can already see that French planes are in the air.
The U.S. provides critical support knocking out communications, coordinating, refueling; all sorts of very important thing to ensure that this mission is carried out successfully.
I can tell you, T.J. that this has been a very dramatic situation. In the room at the Elysees Palace in Paris, this emergency session, a summit that President Sarkozy called, all of the -- you know, representatives from Europe, the United States, Arab countries gathering together and in real time monitoring minute to minute what is going on in Libya. And watching that situation on the ground very carefully, getting reports from their military people and realizing that Colonel Gadhafi, as President Sarkozy said, has ignored all warnings.
So the French President is saying as of now, the their planes, the French planes are preventing the planes of the Libyans from attacking the town and that also their aircraft are prepared to intervene against tanks.
So right now it's a stand -- it's really, as I said, a dramatic situation where they are carrying this out and telling Colonel Gadhafi that there could be more to come, that he has to stop any movement against the population of Benghazi.
And then also, T.J., this noise you hear you may hear in the background --
HOLMES: Yes.
DOUGHERTY: -- we are preparing for Secretary Clinton to come in a few minutes and tell us her views on what the U.S. will be doing.
HOLMES: OK, if you have to hop off the phone, go ahead. But I have a quick question I wanted to ask. Because Sarkozy had some pretty strong words --
(CROSS TALK)
HOLMES: Are you still there, Jill?
DOUGHERTY: Yes, I am.
HOLMES: OK, well, the French President has some pretty strong words about Gadhafi calling it murderous madness of a regime that has forfeited all legitimacy. But then he came back and said the diplomatic door could still be reopened if he did what the international community wants him to do.
Is that the feeling of the United States as well, that this man could still possibly come back to the diplomatic table?
DOUGHERTY: Well, I think you have to really explain exactly what that means. I mean, they have stages here. Number one, primary thing is to stop the attacks on the civilian in Benghazi. Then based on what Colonel Gadhafi does, if he were to pull back, they might, you know, change tactics and strategy.
But at this point, those are two separate things. They need, they say, to stop the violence. Ultimately, there is no question that all of this coalition here, these countries that are cooperating, want to see Colonel Gadhafi step down. You heard from President Obama who said he's lost his legitimacy.
Now, ultimately if there were some type of negotiation, they would demand that he step down and they're also looking at human rights violations to prosecute him and the people who are around him.
But they're really two separate things. But they are not saying that he would be -- you know, the -- the leader, the legitimate leader with whom they would deal and it would be kind of the way it used to be. No. That bridge has been crossed. They still consider him to have lost any type of legitimacy.
HOLMES: Right, Jill Dougherty, an eye on the story for us in Paris. We appreciate you we'll be -- it sounds like a lot of activity there, you're standing by for the Secretary of State like you said to come into the room where you are. We'll check in with you again. Thanks so much.
We want to go ahead and turn now to Eastern Libya where so much activity has been taking place this morning.
Our Arwa Damon is in the Eastern part of that country right now. Arwa, we are hearing officially now that French planes are in the skies above Libya. I don't know if you are seeing any of that, any signs necessarily of that or that making any kind of a difference.
But tell me what exactly you are seeing in the reports from -- in particular Benghazi right now.
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, T.J., we did hear overhead what we all -- this team, the CNN team that I'm with -- believe to be an aircraft. We did not see it. We were looking in the skies with binoculars. We couldn't see but we did hear what we believe to be an aircraft.
We're on the outskirts of Benghazi right now. The city is much, much quiet or sounding much quieter, sounding much calmer than it has all morning.
This morning the city came under heavy artillery bombardment. There were Gadhafi tanks firing rounds inside the city itself. We heard various reports of fighting going on inside the city. We spoke to a number of residents who had fled, many of them saying that they woke up to the sound of fighting and grabbed whatever they could and got out.
One woman telling us about how she woke up to her entire building being sprayed with small arms fire. Now it does appeared to have quieted down. A number of opposition fighters at check points on the outskirts flashing the victory sign saying that they have won. We keep seeing them firing into the air, celebratory gun fire, not fighting right now. It would seem the fighters telling us everything is 100 percent.
They were saying that they did manage to drive out Gadhafi's forces and that they did manage to regain control of the city. That we cannot independently verify at this point. But right now the situation does, at least from my vantage point, appear to be much calmer than it was this morning -- T.J.
HOLMES: All right, Arwa Damon reporting for us where she has been for us all morning in the Eastern part of the country. Arwa, we do appreciate you.
I do want to bring in now our partner and friend at CNN International, John Vause is going to be joining us here as we simulcast this big international story.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, it's a huge story. We've been waiting for this development for quite some time. The French President announcing that the planes are in the air, the no-fly zone is being implemented right now.
I want to go to Nic Robertson who is standing by in Tripoli. He's been there for quite some time over the last couple of weeks to get some reaction from there.
Nic, we've heard a lot of government officials talking over the last couple of hours, words of defiance. Now that the planes are in the air that this -- this no-fly zone will be operational, what is the reaction right now from Tripoli?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first reaction to President Sarkozy's speech was for us to be told that there would be an imminent press conference here, no doubt with another senior government official to lay out their response to President Sarkozy or put forward some other idea.
So that -- that, seems to be the very latest thing that we're hearing. The government here continues to reject the U.N. Security Council resolution. That's a flip-flop on what they said yesterday.
We're hearing there from Arwa Damon that things have gone quieter in Benghazi. That's the way that it would seem the government forces here operate over the past few weeks, that they will have an advance. They will stop, they will start again and perhaps there's a pause here to -- on the part of the Libyan side to give the appearance or indeed perhaps even to be observing what is being demanded of them by the international community.
The tactics that they've employed over the last couple of days since that resolution came into place, give the impression that they've been playing for time, trying to get effects on the ground, take control of the last few cities that they want to get control of, taken back from the rebels.
But clearly at the moment, that -- that it is very, very high stakes diplomacy is pushing to the limit that the Libyan government is doing. It seems in the words of President Sarkozy, they're to have reached the very edge of the limit with French war planes now actually over Libya -- John, T.J.
VAUSE: Nic, very difficult to answer this question, but I'll put it to you anyway. Is there a possibility now that the -- the Libyan regime of Moammar Gadhafi will do what it's been doing over the last couple of days? It will try diplomacy, it will try to engage the -- the United Nation whilst at the same time pushing on with its campaign in the east? Or has that door now well and truly closed?
ROBERTSON: John, I think we can say with some certainty at the moment that the Libyan government still wants international monitors here. That it's still trying to create diplomatic ties with the United States in particular and with other nations that it thinks will perhaps be sympathetic.
What it intends to do while it maintains those conversations is unclear. But listening to Wesley Clark, General Wesley Clark retired, just a few minutes ago there on our -- on -- during our broadcast, he outlined the difficulties that an air campaign would face here and -- and indeed, we don't know what's going through Colonel Gadhafi's mind at the moment.
But certainly there appears to be calculations that the U.N., that -- that an international force wasn't ready. And as we saw during the Kosovo conflict in 1999, an air force and a missile barrage that tries to stop troops on the ground, tanks, et cetera, as would perhaps be the case around Benghazi finds it very difficult to be effective.
The inability of NATO at that time to take out all the targets on the ground over a period of more than two months in the analysis after the war proved to show that -- that air power has its limits. And perhaps Colonel Gadhafi and his military forces will be making assessments along those lines or perhaps indeed choosing to go along with what President Sarkozy has said.
We just don't know right now -- John and T.J.
VAUSE: OK, well Nic, obviously, bring us that news as soon as you get it about coming out of Tripoli from the government's spokesperson. They have been talking a lot today for words of defiance. It'll be interesting to see if that changes in the coming hours. Thank you Nic.
HOLMES: All right, we are going to keep a close eye here at CNN and also CNN International. Joining us here as we simulcast this huge international story, the update being Sarkozy, the French President giving us an update that yes in fact, French planes are now patrolling the skies and ready to protect the citizens of Libya as he says.
Also, President Obama is traveling right now in Brazil but keeping a close eye on what's happening in Libya. We will check with our reporter, our senior White House correspondent who is traveling with the President.
John and I right back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: And welcome back to our continuing coverage of the situation in Libya. We've heard from French President Nicolas Sarkozy a short time ago that French fighter jets are now in the skies over Libya to protect citizens of the city of Benghazi. The civilians who have been the victims of the Gadhafi regime as it has pushed east during this campaign to reclaim territory lost during the uprising there.
Wolf Blitzer joins us now on the line for more on this story.
And Wolf, the situation for the United States, it finds itself in a very different situation compared to previous missions similar to this. The U.S. has made it very clear that it will be a participant in this. It will not be the leader of this campaign. Why is that?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM" (via telephone): They don't want there to be a propaganda tool for Gadhafi. In other words, the United States takes the lead and U.S. F-15s and F-16s and other fighter jets are directly immediately bombing targets, launching a sort of pre-emptive strikes against air defense systems, artillery batteries and stuff like that. Then Gadhafi might be able to say, look, this is the United States attacking yet another Arab and Muslim country.
If the French, the Italians, the British, the Spaniards and most importantly some Arab countries, some Arab air forces, air forces from Jordan or the United Arab Emirates or Qatar or even Saudi Arabia. If they're involved, then it is less of a propaganda tool. And so, the U.S. will be very significantly involved in terms of logistics, logistical support, air refueling, in terms of jamming electronic devices, whatever the Libyans might have. But it's going to be more behind the scenes than really in front of the cameras.
VAUSE: We also heard an interesting story in the New York Times today essentially saying that President Obama wanted any kind of military involvement to be a situation where it was limited to days not weeks. What is the concern that the U.S. has here?
BLITZER: The major concern is what the military calls mission creep, that one thing could lead to another. That starts off very quickly and just a very limited mission, to protect the civilians in Benghazi and some of the other cities where the rebels have been assaulted and where potentially there could be huge numbers of Libyan casualties.
There's really a great fear of Libyan atrocities by Gadhafi; and President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton and others, they don't want that to happen on their watch. But they also don't want to get involved in a long protracted ground war in Libya. The U.S. already has a (INAUDIBLE) in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past ten years, as we all knows.
So they've got really limited objectives. But in the end, even though they don't say it, the President's objective is regime change because Gadhafi must go. He says that publicly -- he's been saying that for the last few weeks.
But this is for a limited U.N.-authorized no-fly zone operation, that doesn't have the immediate objective of regime change or getting rid of Gadhafi. It's primarily -- it's supposed to be designed to protect the civilians and to avoid a blood bath and more Libyans getting killed.
It's a delicate diplomatic answer, if you will. But I think when all is said and done, they're sending a powerful message to Gadhafi that sooner rather than later he's going to be gone. The only question is how many Libyans will die in the process.
VAUSE: There's also some concern, Wolf, about just who makes up the opposition. We know that a lot of them are civilians, but there's been concern about just who has been involved in this uprising against Gadhafi. What have you been told about that? BLITZER: Well, you know, they're various groups. There are some legitimate democrats -- small d democrats, who are young people who are obsessed with getting some more freedom in Libya. They're very -- just like their counterparts in Tunisia and in Egypt were, you know, their social networking sites and all that. But there are others who are just haters of Gadhafi.
One thing I've been told is by U.S. intelligences sources is, you know, that the U.S. doesn't really have a great handle on all of these various rebel factions, whether in Benghazi or some of the other cities. It's a very disparate group. Some are, obviously, what we would call good guys, others maybe not such good guys.
And so that's one of the reasons why there's a hesitancy on the part of the Obama administration to support arming the rebels. They don't want a situation to develop where we're giving arms to people who in the end will turn against the United States, turn against the allies and be, you know, maybe just as bad as Gadhafi, perhaps even worse. So that's one of the problems right now.
When I pressed the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice yesterday on CNN and I asked her what about arming the rebels, arming the opposition, they're running low in weapons, they're running low in spare parts and everything else. She refused to say whether that was part of the deal.
It's certainly not part of the U.N. Security Council resolution 1973 that passed the other day. That it didn't authorize formally, arming the rebels. It did say "all necessary means" to help protect the civilians but didn't go as far as to say including weapons for the rebels.
VAUSE: And when we listen to what the French president had to say, he referred to civilians in Benghazi, not civilians in other towns like Zawiyah or Misrata which were being held by the rebels. Are we splitting hairs here? It seems that when world leaders speak they choose their words very carefully. Why are they only talking about Benghazi?
BLITZER: Well, I think that may have been just Sarkozy. But they're talking about other cities as well. The President of the United States yesterday when he spoke he mentioned three or four other cities specifically including cities that the Libyan army of Gadhafi had already retaken and basically saying, you know, you got to get out of these cities.
This is part of the ultimatum that President Obama gave yesterday if you read closely, carefully. He mentions three or four of these other places including somewhere the rebels were already defeated. But the President said they got to get out of there.
So it's a direct ultimatum to Gadhafi. My own sense is Gadhafi himself and probably his sons, they're living in their own world and they're not going to be heeding what the President of the United States is saying, what the President of France is saying, the U.N. Security Council, the Arab league is saying.
What the hope is on the part of these, this U.S./European/Arab coalition now that's being assembled, in the aftermath of the U.N. Security Council, the hope is that the military leaders, the generals, the colonels in Gadhafi's regime, they'll begin to see the light and they'll say, you know what? We're on a losing team right now, and if we continue to fight for Gadhafi, we're just going down. And either we're going to die or there are going to be war crimes trials but they're going to come after us.
What they're hoping is to get them to split away from Gadhafi and not fight and just sort of give up right now, lay down their arms. We'll see if that happens. That's certainly one of the goals of what the U.S. and the NATO allies and some of the members of the Arab league are now trying to do, just convince the military it's over. Give up, save yourselves.
VAUSE: Yes. Long road ahead. Wolf Blitzer on the phone there for us. Thank you, Wolf.
HOLMES: All right. It's 22 minutes past the hour here.
I want to remind our viewers, some that might just be joining us, that we have been watching action, a lot of fighting happening in Benghazi, that -- that rebel stronghold in the Eastern part of Libya this morning. We have our John King standing by on the line with me now.
John as I try to update our viewers here a bit who may just be joining us; did see the French President Nicolas Sarkozy come out of a meeting of other U.N. member nations and leaders in which he said and confirmed that, in fact, French fighter jets are now above the skies of Libya trying to impose that no-fly zone. And said they will do what they have to do to protect the Libyan citizens.
Again our John King from "JOHN KING, USA" joining me. John, thanks for hopping on the line here. We heard the French President say "murderous madness of Gadhafi" in one sentence during his statement, but then a sentence or two later say that there's still time and that the doors of diplomacy can be opened to Gadhafi if he complies.
Now, this doesn't sound like what we've been hearing from President Obama talking more s about regime change. So is Sarkozy, would you say, speaking necessarily for President Obama?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): He was speaking very carefully T.J. because of the delicate diplomacy of the moment. If you listened to what President Obama said yesterday, yes he is on the record saying he believes Gadhafi must go. But he said the specific goal of this military intervention involving the French and the British and to a degree the United States and the United Arab Emirates and Qatar also will be involved, Spain perhaps as well.
The President said the goal was to get Gadhafi to pull back from those cities in the east he's taken from the opposition over the last week to ten days and to stop the slaughter of civilians. The President has said Gadhafi must go, but he did not say he must go as the goal of this military intervention.
However a French government spokesman yesterday did say just that. That the goal was to stop Gadhafi and then allow the opposition to regroup and essentially march on Tripoli. And that angered the White House a little bit because of the diplomacy here that's keeping the Arab nations involved.
The Arab League has endorsed this operation. The White House believes it is critical. You will see jets of the United Arab Emirates as part of this no-fly zone very soon I'm told, perhaps from Qatar as well very soon, I'm told. Look, they want Gadhafi to go and they hope the opposition can regroup and that that is the outcome of this.
But publicly the goal of this military intervention is not regime change. They do not want whether it's Gadhafi's propaganda machine as Nic Robertson smartly noted or Iran's propaganda machine who say the West is coming in to the Arab world to topple another regime. They hope it happens on the ground but they don't want that to be a public declaration of the goal here.
HOLMES: OK. And you talked about there, how important that message is to get out. Now, the President had to have two different audiences if you will. You talked about the Arab nations being a part of this and certainly the United States doesn't want to be seen as taking the lead here.
But the President, he wanted to be so clear yesterday. And he was in saying there will be not -- you will not see any U.S. forces on the ground in Libya. That is not going to happen. That message is important for the world, yes; also for the United States to hear.
KING: There's no question. Look, this is a tough one for the President. And he's faced some criticism and T.J. he will within hours now face more criticism because the French president is out speaking for the world, not the United States president at the moment. So you can expect President Obama's critics to say what's happening here.
However, President Obama, number one, again does not want -- if this is a legacy of the Iraq war and to a degree a legacy of Afghanistan, he doesn't want in the region people to be able say here comes the United States again flexing military muscle. Number two, the President of the United States knows how tired the American people are of the financial and the human cost, two wars over the last decade. And so he wants to be part of this.
I'm told that U.S. AWACs jets are part of this coordinating with the French fighter planes. I'm told that U.S. naval assets in the Mediterranean are part of the command and control operation of this and there are refueling jets from the United States Air Force that are there to help.
They do not want U.S. offensive military capability involved if they can keep it that way. And that's a big if. We're at a very interesting moment here. French jets in the skies over Libya without, T.J. and at least not that we know of, any strikes against the surface to air missiles and the anti-aircraft batteries.
Remember Secretary Gates had said if U.S. jets were involved in the no-fly zone, he would insist on that. Because he did not want U.S. pilots put at risk. The French are essentially taking a bet here and they are testing Moammar Gadhafi. And if he were to fire at those French jets, then this would take on a very, very different composition very, very quickly.
So as we hear from President Sarkozy about the first French flights, we are at a moment of testing, not just for the international coalition, but for Gadhafi as well.
HOLMES: All right. And I want to explain to our viewers what you're seeing there as we talk about fighter jets flying over the skies. What you're seeing there is video earlier of what is believed to be a rebel, one of the opposition fighter jets over the town of Benghazi that went down earlier today.
So we can talk about fighter jets and French patrolling the skies, but what you're seeing there -- I want to make sure it's clear -- that this was an opposition jet, we believe, that was taken down. Don't know how it was shot down; we don't have clarity there. But this is earlier in Benghazi.
So our John King of "JOHN KING USA", we appreciate you this morning.
VAUSE: OK. We will take a short break.
We are still waiting for the U.S. President Barack Obama to make some comments on this. This is a live picture of the room where the President will be speaking. We're waiting for those comments at any moment now.
He's on a five-day tour of Latin America. Right now he is in Brazil. Brazil, of course, one of five countries which abstained from that U.N. resolution, making this somewhat of an awkward visit for U.S. President Barack Obama.
We will take a short break. We will continue to monitor the situation there.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We are at the bottom of the hour here as we simulcast with our partners at CNN International, bringing you the latest developments on what has been a morning of developments in Libya where we've seen the battle of Benghazi appears to be taking place, the rebel stronghold in the Eastern part of the country, where pro- government forces have been attacking and battling with some of the rebel forces there this morning.
And we just saw Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president coming out, talking about French planes now being a part of imposing that U.N. resolution that would impose a "no-fly" zone over Libya. And also, the French president coming out and saying they will take all action necessary including taking out tanks and ground forces of Gadhafi's if necessary, if they see those forces trying to attack innocent Libyan civilians.
This all comes as President Obama has said in no uncertain terms that, yes, they would like to see regime change, but that's not the point right now of this U.N. resolution and the point of the "no-fly" zone and action being taken by the U.N. the president is traveling right now to Brazil.
Our Ed Henry is traveling with the president today. We're standing by, are we not, Ed, to hear from the president, a regularly scheduled event he was supposed to have with the Brazilian president, but do we expect some comments from the president on what we're seeing in Libya play out?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We do, T.J. In fact, we're getting new information on U.S. officials saying they expect the president to comment on the situation in Libya. Obviously, you mentioned he's going to be having this event in just a few moments with President Rousseff of Brazil.
They've been behind closed doors and they were supposed to come out publicly a while ago. It's been delayed. So one would expect - and in my conversations with U.S. officials they are saying that the president has been getting information behind the scenes about what is happening over the skies of Libya.
We're also getting new information that the president was first briefed on the situation about these French fighter jets going over Libya back at his hotel. That was more than an hour or so ago before he met for these talks with President Rousseff.
So the bottom line is, even while he's here in Latin America talking about trade, talking about various economic issues, he is being briefed. He's having U.S. officials keep him on top of the situation on his own with U.S. officials, but then also in his conversations with the Brazilian president.
Let's not forget, Brazil is also a nonpermanent member of the U.N. Security Council. They were there for last Thursday night's vote in New York at the U.N. Security Council. Brazil was one of just a handful of countries that abstained from the vote. They were not one of the yes votes along with the U.S. and France and others.
We're told by Brazilian officials that's because, while they certainly want to see some sort of action taken to prevent innocent civilians in Libya from being killed, continue to be killed, they are concerned, however, the Brazilians are, as are some others around the world, that the U.N. resolution is written so broadly that this could go far beyond a "no-fly" zone, go far beyond that into wider military action.
Brazil, one of many countries, concerned about that going further. As you've been hearing and discussing, this is also a concern of the U.S. even though they supported that resolution for the U.N. They do not want this to be a protracted military action. And they certainly - President Obama has made that clear again and again in public and in private that there will not be any U.S. ground forces used in any sort of military action in Libya.
So you can expect to hear that again from the president in a few moments. We're also expecting a press conference in a short while from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She's in France on this urgent mission. She just flew from Washington late last night, landed in France, went right into talks as you've been discussing with the French President Sarkozy, the British Prime Minister David Cameron. She's going to make comments soon as well.
So you can see all around the world, whether in it's Latin America, France, back in Washington, the Obama administration is all over this right now - T.J.
HOLMES: Yes. We're keeping a close eye too and for our viewers here kind of switching back and forth between several podiums here. We want you to know we're keeping an eye, like Ed said, on what's happening in Paris, waiting to hear from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and also in Brazil where you are, Ed.
One more thing to you, Ed, we know that the president does not want the U.S. to look like it's taking the lead in another military action of some kind. The president, does he not want to, quite frankly, come out and have to speak too much and too often about this but, frankly, he just doesn't have a choice?
HENRY: Well, certainly he has to comment on it over time, but yes, he doesn't want this to be certainly the chief thing that he talks about here in Latin America. We saw the same back in Washington. He wants to make sure the American people realize it's business as usual for him on all of these other important economic issues that matter to them, but also the situation in Japan is something else he's been briefed on. So it's not like the president of the United States can't stay focus on any one big issue at any one time. He's got to sort of juggle all of these balls at once. But I think the reason why you're seeing the U.S. try to take a less of a public role, as what John King was talking about, as well as Wolf, is that the bottom line is the U.S. does not want to be seen as driving further military action around the Arab world. They've got so much backlash after Iraq, Afghanistan, the U.S. wants to make it very clear from the beginning here that this is a multilateral operation and that there will be Arab countries involved as well. We're hearing about the UAE and other - others maybe offering planes to institute this "no-fly" zone. So that's the bottom line.
On one hand, the president wants to make sure he's staying on top of all these other crises. But - but perhaps more importantly, he wants to show that this is not the U.S. driving it, that there are many nations involved here. And we saw that in the U.N. vote on Thursday - T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Ed Henry, standing by, like we all are, waiting to hear from the president. Again, it has been delayed so it can happen at any moment. But when it happens, we'll certainly bring that to our viewers live.
Ed, we appreciate you this morning.
VAUSE: T.J., clearly it seems that the French government is taking the lead on this along with the British Prime Minister David Cameron. We know that French fighter jets are now flying over the skies of Libya.
Also, it has been noted that France was one of the first countries to recognize this Transitional National Council in Benghazi as a representative of the people of Libya. We've also heard that the British government is moving tornado and typhoon fighter jets into position to be used as part of this no-fly zone. But any military action over Libya will be reliant upon U.S. firepower as reluctant as U.S. may be to be part of this.
Our Barbara Starr joins us now with more on the U.S. side of the military intervention. And, Barbara, exactly what happens from here? There's a big U.S. military presence in the region. What will they be doing?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, John, that's really - that is really the key question, because what you're seeing in these opening hours, of course, is a lot of diplomacy from various world capitals. A lot of big picture statements. But practically on the ground, in the skies over Libya, how does all this translate into a military operation that can really achieve what they're talking about, which is making Gadhafi's forces pull back from Benghazi, pull back from the other cities they hold.
So you have a number of U.S. Navy warships in the region, in the Mediterranean, but that's some pretty significant firepower. For them to fire their missiles into Libyan cities to try and affect Libyan forces and avoid civilians is very problematic. You have what the French, of course, this morning beginning to fly their war planes. How do you, however, organize and control such a massive air operation and - and set a strategy that again will really achieve that objective as making Gadhafi pull his forces out of the city?
The U.S., as everyone has pointed out, it says it's going to try to take a back seat on all of this provide some command and control. Jam Gadhafi's communications, provide support. But make no mistake, you know, John. This is now a full blown combat operation. You don't go into these things by halves. So it's - it's going to be very tough.
The two key problems on the ground in a practical sense is that command and control, how do you pull so many countries together and really enact a strategy here and how do you target? How do you target Gadhafi's forces, those tanks, those anti-aircraft, artillery pieces when they're mixed in possibly in those cities with civilian populations?
The way the U.S. typically does it is they put Special Forces on the ground and they - they provide precise locations for those targets. The president is saying no U.S. forces on the ground in this operation, John.
VAUSE: And also, that U.N. resolution, one thing that it does actually rule out is the presence of foreign troops on Libyan soil, which essentially means that everything has to be done with air power. And as we heard from Nic Robertson earlier, there's a very limited - there's a very big limit to what air power can actually achieve. And you - sorry. Go on.
STARR: That's absolutely right. I mean, that's absolutely correct. If the U.S. learned anything over the years that's certainly a lesson we've learned, as the U.S. has learned as a military force in both Iraq and Afghanistan, haven't they? You know, in Afghanistan, we have seen the growth of a ground force in order to move against the Taliban and the insurgents because it can't be done from the air. We saw the same thing in Iraq for many years.
And - and targeting from the air into the cities, into those mixed populations, again, it's very tough. The Libyan forces are Soviet trained from years ago. They follow a Soviet doctrine, so they engage in a lot of practices that we did see in Iraq, mixing in with the cities, mixing in with populations. You know, how long before Gadhafi potentially moves some of his military close to mosques, close to hospitals, close to those red lines where, you know, coalition forces will not bomb? He knows all of these practices. He knows what to do.
And I think what one - what one has to anticipate is in these opening hours, again, you see the great diplomatic statement on the ground, on the scene on a practical military level. It's going to get a lot tougher. It always does.
VAUSE: Yes. And when we start talking about Gadhafi moving his forces into the cities, well, Arwa Damon was reporting a few hours ago that Benghazi has been under attack and there's also this belief that Gadhafi has moved his artillery and his tanks into the streets of Benghazi, which, as you say, will make it very, very difficult to hit if the air. And then, of course, the longer this air campaign goes on, the more support Gadhafi builds within Libya because he can portray this as us against them against the foreign intervention of Libya.
STARR: Well, I think that's right. I mean, again, this is the model that Saddam Hussein followed for so many years. And this is - as John King and Wolf were saying, this is one of the key reasons that the U.S. strategy at the moment, the diplomatic strategy is to try and include Arab nations and Arab military forces in this operation. But, you know, I think most people probably - most strategists probably anticipate that Gadhafi and his forces will hunker down. Getting - if the resolution is to get them out of the cities, they're already there. They're already there, they're on the streets, they're mixed in with the civilians.
VAUSE: Just very quickly, Barbara. What - have we heard anything else about which Arab nations are going to take part in this? We know that there's Qatar, the UAE, maybe Jordan, that doesn't seem like a very significant presence.
STARR: Well, you know, the Arab nations militarily have a long tradition of staying very quiet about what their plans are and especially if they go act in other countries. We are already seeing some other forces, of course, move into Bahrain and try and help them with their situation. So there's going to be a lot of caution in the Arab League.
Again, the statements, their diplomacy is one thing, but actually sending forces, putting their own forces at risk in the skies over Libya, that remains to be seen as who actually does take to the skies.
VAUSE: Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent, on the line there, of course. Thank you, Barbara - T.J.
HOLMES: All right, John. We are standing by for comments, two live press conferences to take place or statements at least we're expecting to get from the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who has been in Paris this morning. You see that on the right side of the screen there. There's where a top level meeting took place a little earlier in Paris including the French president and including the Secretary of State and others as they discussed trying to put into place and enforce that U.N. resolution that would enforce that - or put into place a no-fly zone. Expecting to hear from her soon.
Also expecting, on the left side of the screen there, to hear from President Obama. U.S. President Obama who is on a three-nation Latin trip right now. But in Brazil, expecting - this was already a planned event. He was supposed to come out and make some comments with the Brazilian president, but now this has taken on a new urgency, if you will. Many people expecting him to make comments about what we have been seeing play out in Libya over the past several hours, even the past several weeks, in fact.
So we're standing by for both of those live events.
Meanwhile, we did hear from the French President Nicolas Sarkozy just a short time ago explaining kind of what happened in that meeting and his country's role now in implementing that no-fly zone. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICOLAS SARKOZY, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Today, the leaders of the League of Arab States, the European Union, U.S. and Canadian representatives met in Paris, France, (INAUDIBLE) of France and the U.N. Secretary-General.
Together, we have decided to ensure the application of the Security Council resolution demanding an immediate cease-fire and an end to violence against civil populations in Libya. Participants agreed to use all the necessary means, in particular military means, to enforce the Security Council decisions. This is why in agreement with our partners, our Air Force will oppose any aggression by Colonel Gadhafi against the population of Benghazi.
As of now, our aircraft are preventing planes from attacking the town. As of now, other French aircraft are ready to intervene against tanks, armored vehicles threatening unarmed civilians. As of yesterday, France, the United Kingdom, the United States and Arab countries sent Colonel Gadhafi and the forces he's using the following warning. If there is not an immediate cease-fire and withdraw of the forces that have been attacking civilian populations in the last few weeks, our countries will have to resort to other means. This warning was endorsed by all participants at the summit that has just concluded.
Colonel Gadhafi has totally ignored this warning. In the last few hours, his forces have stepped up their deadly offensives. Arab peoples have chosen to free themselves from the enslavement in which they have felt trapped for too long. These revolts have given rise to great hopes in the hearts of all those who share the values of democracy and human rights. But they're not without risk. The future of these Arab peoples belongs to them. Amidst the many different difficulties and ordeals, they must confront, these Arab peoples need our help and support, and it is our duty to provide it.
In Libya, a peaceful civilian population demanding nothing more than the right to choose its own destiny is in mortal danger. It is our duty to respond to their anguished appeal. The future of Libya belongs to the Libyans. We do not seek to decide for them. Their fight for freedom is theirs. Our intervention alongside Arab peoples is not with a view to imposing any specific outcome on them, but in the name of the universal conscience that will not tolerate such crimes.
Today, we are intervening in Libya under a United Nations Security Council mandate alongside our partners, in particular, our Arab partners. And we're doing this in order to protect the civilian population from the murderous madness of a regime that, by killing his own people, has forfeited all legitimacy. We are intervening in order to enable the Libyan people to choose its own destiny. It must not be deprived of its rights by violence and terror.
There is still time for Colonel Gadhafi to avoid the worst by complying immediately and unreservedly with all the demands of the international community. The doors of diplomacy will open once again when the aggression stops.
Our determination is total. I say this with all solemnity, all those concerned must now face up to their responsibilities. It is a grave decision that we have come to take. Alongside its Arab partners, European partners, North American partners, France is resolved to shoulder its role before history.
Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: That is the French president speaking there a short time ago in Paris after a decision was made to enforce that no-fly zone. We are still waiting for U.S. President Barack Obama to come out and make a statement on Libya.
HOLMES: And when that happens we'll bring that to you live. We're going to try to get in a quick break here, and when the president - let me stay for just a second. I just see a little movement, people coming out of that room here. But he is of course on his tour of Latin America right now.
We're going to try to sneak in a quick break, but you wouldn't miss a moment. When the president steps out, we'll bring that to you live. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time the Thunder takes the floor, the home crowd cheers, not just for the team but also for the remarkable transformation it represents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love what I've seen. I think it's been great. It's been great.
FOREMAN: For almost two decades, through targeted use of a voter approved one-cent sales tax, Oklahoma City has been rebuilding itself with a new ballpark, new attractions, refurbished entertainment centers, museums, schools and more.
MAYOR MICK CORNETT (R), OKLAHOMA CITY: We're creating a city where your kid and your grandkid is going to want to live.
FOREMAN: Mayor Mick Cornett -
CORNETT: The past paradigm has been that people went to where the jobs were, and what I believe is that in the future, the people are going to go to the cities where they want to live, and the jobs are going to follow the people.
FOREMAN: The acquisition of the Thunder three years ago was a milestone in the process of making this a prime place to live, and a coup for this town that is one of the smallest (INAUDIBLE) an NBA team. It was made possible in large part because that same tax money was used to build an arena, with no loans to hang over the profit- making potential of the new franchise.
GARY DESJARDINS, REGIONAL GENERAL MANAGER, SMG: There's no debt on the building. It's paid for.
FOREMAN (on camera): That's pretty unusual.
DESJARDINS: Extremely unusual.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Thunder coach Scott Brooks calls it teamwork.
COACH SCOTT BROOKS, OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER: It's important that we all get behind each others' endeavors.
FOREMAN: So today, Oklahoma -
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
VAUSE: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world.
President - U.S. President Barack Obama now just stepping up to the podium there. He's on a visit to Brazil, part of his trip to Latin America. He will make some comments, it's expected, about the no-fly zone which is now being enforced over Libya by French fighter jets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
DILMA ROUSSEFF, PRESIDENT OF BRAZIL: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
VAUSE: This is the Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff, who is greeting President Obama. This of course could be a very awkward visit to Brazil for the U.S. president.
Brazil abstained from that U.N. resolution. They complained it was in fact way too broad.
HOLMES: And kind of an awkward image here. This trip - certainly, they didn't know things were going to play out the way they did. But to see these two leaders who are trying to have partnerships in so many areas, certainly on the - the economies of the world, and trade and partnerships in that area, and clearly these two standing and there's a bit of a difference of opinion when it comes to at least Libya.
We are working here, trying to get the translation here for many of our viewers, so we apologize for that. When we get it up, we'll have it for you, but we're still - many people waiting to hear what the president is going to say. He has to say something, many would say, about what we're seeing in Libya now.
VAUSE: Because this has been a stunning turnaround from the U.S. point of view when it comes to Libya because there has been this deep reluctance for many, many weeks to get involved in the situation in Libya. And Libya was not seen as being a strategic company, apart from the oil reserves, but that was not seen as being a vital interest to the west and to the United States.
But yet, suddenly at the beginning of this week there was signs that the position was changing, and then of course we had that stunning U.N. vote on Thursday. You have to go back 20 years before the first Gulf War to see a resolution with that much teeth also being supported by the Arab league as well.
HOLMES: And you talk about the teeth that that resolution has, but, at the same time, we're - we're watching a woman here, a - the head of a country that said it was just a little - it was a little too broad and a little too far reaching, and we had five countries at least abstain on that Security Council who did not want to participate, if you will. But still, it passed easily, the 10 - the 10 nations that did vote.
But also, you talked about the U.S. reluctance to get involved in what was happening in Libya. Certainly didn't want to take the lead, but they have been very - as diplomats always are, very careful in their language.
The president has come out and made some statements. The president - U.S. President Obama, making statements that, yes, we would like to see regime change in Libya, but that's not the point of the action that this U.N. resolution is taking or this what is in fact now military action in Libya, as military jets, French jets, are flying right now, trying to impose that no-fly zone. But, at the same time, how much can it really do?
We've had that discussion today as well.
VAUSE: Yes.
HOLMES: There's only so much you can do from the skies. And they have said, clearly, not going to be any foreign troops on the ground.
VAUSE: There's a lot of feeling out there when you talk with our correspondents, Arwa Damon and Ben Wedeman, who've been with the - the rebel forces in the east, there was a feeling there amongst these opposition groups that somehow this no-fly zone will be a - a magic bullet, that somehow all of their problems will be solved. If only they could get this no-fly zone in place. But the experts tell you that it's just not that simple.
