Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Witness to Reno Air Show Crash Discusses Moment of Impact; The Case of Troy Davis; Interview With Reverend Raphael Warnock, Fighting For Release of Troy Davis; Interview with Anneliese MacPhail, Mother of Officer Mark MacPhail

Aired September 17, 2011 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: But right now, good morning to you all. We're at the top of the hour. I'll give you a look at the stories making headlines on this CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

Human rights groups protesting Wednesday's scheduled execution of Georgia death row inmate Troy Davis. He was convicted 20 years ago in the fatal shooting of an off-duty police officer. Supporters, though, say seven of the nine witnesses who testified against Davis have now recanted their testimony. Georgia hears Davis' request for clemency on Monday.

Also in Libya, rebel forces trying to stamp out the remaining two strongholds of former dictator, Colonel Moammar Gadhafi with new battles raging near Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte as Gadhafi himself remains in hiding.

Now, we start with that crash, that crash at this high-speed air race in Reno, Nevada. Three people dead, more than 50 injured, 12 of those injured listed in critical condition.

Look at the picture on your screen. This helps tell the story that words really can't describe. This is just moments before impact. You see the plane not far away from a crowded grandstand of people.

Now, even though the picture looks like this plane is coming down directly on them, we're told by witnesses he was able to veer off at the very last moment and he hit an area that was not packed with people. So this could have been a lot worse. Now let me roll a piece of video for you and listen to the impact.

Let me tell you. You hear the announcer trying to tell people to stay calm and stay where they are. The plane slammed into an area, the box seat area, but it just barely missed the crowded grandstand.

Now, the air race air show has been canceled for the weekend, but they will have a memorial there at the airfield for the pilot. His name is Jimmy Leward. Witnesses are calling him a hero. They believed he was able to maneuver his plane at the last minute away from are the crowded grandstand.

The video you're seeing right there, that you just saw, was taken by a man now on the line with me. He joins me now, David Wilson. Sir, we appreciate you taking the time with us. Sir, I assume you were just rolling on the air show. But how much time did you have before you realized something was wrong?

DAVID WILSON, SHOT VIDEO OF AIR RACE CRASH (via telephone): A split second. I mean, one second this was a fantastic flying event and the next second it's a horrific scene of debris with pieces of aircraft and people lying around you. You're in shock.

HOLMES: We're trying to get some perspective from this video we have been seeing. But just how crowded of an area would you say it was where the plane made impact?

WILSON: Where the plane made impact - look, it's hard to recall, but there may have been half a dozen people sitting right there at that point, approximately. Not nearly as crowded as what the grandstand would have been.

HOLMES: Sir, would you agree with a lot of others, other witnesses, who say they have no doubt that this could have been a lot worse and they believed that the pilot was able to maneuver that plane at the last second so he wouldn't hit that crowded grandstand?

WILSON: Yes, look, I would like to believe that. I think that is probably the case. A little bit hard to tell because it's only a split second of action that's coming straight down. But, yes, that is probably the case.

HOLMES: And sir, we're looking -- again, we are just going through the video we see. But tell us the scene afterwards. We hear that people were just bleeding, they were hit by all of this flying debris. Can you put into words the scene immediately afterwards?

WILSON: Just chaotic, basically. But initially just people were dumbfounded, you know, they were stunned. I think the video show that people standing around, (INAUDIBLE) grief and shocked. Until I realized the enormity of the event.

Have you ever cited how much experience you have at air races, if you're a regular at air shows and air races, but have you ever had fears of something like this happening before? Did you always have are those concerns even, that day that you never know, something could happen?

WILSON: Well, look, there's a certain amount of danger I guess in flying. I mean, things happen. This is just a most unfortunate accident. It really was. It's considered pretty safe really, by me. I can't see this as a dangerous pastime, but there is an element of danger. You've got to admit that.

HOLMES: All right. David Wilson. Sir, I appreciate you giving us the time this morning. It's a story certainly of interest to a lot of people and just of horror. Right now, a lot of people out there with their thoughts and prayers out to the victims there. But we certainly appreciate your time.

WILSON: Yes.

HOLMES: All right. We're at four minutes past the hour here now.

I'll turn to a story out of New York state where police there are looking for a soldier. He disappeared into the woods near Ft. Drum. You see his picture there. That's Private First Class Russell Marcum. He was in what they call "unit custody" after being accused of burglary. He took off in his parents' car, led police on a high-speed chase. He crashed that car and took off into the woods. Police lost him there. He is considered armed and dangerous. He had served three months in Afghanistan earlier this year.

Also what could be a major developing story today, we are keeping a very close eye on. We are standing by for word on two American hikers. They have been jailed in Iran for the past two years, convicted of spying there. The attorney for the two - these are his words - "is very hopeful that they could be released as early as today."

This is coming down now to a paperwork issue, waiting for one judge to sign off on paperwork that would allow Josh Fattal and Shane Bauer to be released on a $1 million bail. They have been held there for the past two years.

We're just five minutes past the hour now. Let's say good morning once again to Alexandra Steele.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: We're six minutes past the hour. We want to turn it to a story next that is getting international attention.

Troy Davis, he is facing his fourth execution date. That is next Wednesday. A lot of people believe he has run out of options this time. A leading Atlanta pastor who will be testifying at the parole board hearing on Monday on Troy Davis' behalf will be here with me, explains why the execution should be stopped.

But also this morning, joining me will be Troy Davis, the man - he's convicted of killing an off-duty police officer, that officer's mother will be with me and explain why she believes Troy Davis should be executed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Ten past the hour now.

You've probably heard the name by now, Troy Davis. He is sitting on Georgia's death row. That's where he's been for the past 20 years, facing his fourth execution order on Wednesday but still hoping for mercy.

Davis was convicted of killing Savannah police officer Mark McPhail back in 1989. But several witnesses at his 1991 trial have changed their stories, claiming police have coerced them into lying. CNN's David Mattingly has more on this case that has attracted international attention.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): T.J., it's a death row case going on in the state of Georgia now for 20 years, and supporters of death row inmate Troy Davis are now finding some high- powered help.

(voice-over): Three times scheduled for execution, three times delayed, and now all legal appeals exhausted, supporters of convicted cop killer Troy Davis make a final push for clemency.

(on camera): What makes you think you still have a chance to stop this execution?

LAURA MOYE, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL USA: Can we be sure that this man is not innocent? Can we be sure that the conviction of Troy Davis, back in 1991, is still reliable, and the thing that's so difficult to understand is why the legal process has not asked that question.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Davis was sentenced to death for the 1989 murder of Savannah, Georgia, Police Officer Mark MacPhail. Seven of nine eyewitnesses have since recanted, changed their stories. Some say they were originally pressured by police.

DARRELL COLLINS, WITNESS: And I told them over and over, that this is-I didn't see this happen. They put what they wanted to put in that statement.

MATTINGLY: Others have come forward implicating another man. One juror who convicted Davis questions her decision.

BRENDA FORREST, DAVIS JUROR: If I knew then, what I know now, Troy Davis would not be on death row.

MATTINGLY: With only a week to his execution, critics against the case against Davis include 51 members of Congress, the Vatican, and former President Jimmy Carter.

JIMMY CARTER, FMR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that in this particular case there's enough evidence to the contrary to prevent this execution taking place.

MATTINGLY: An online petition supporting clemency for Davis exceeded 200,000 signatures in five days. But state and federal courts have all upheld Davis' conviction. The former DA who prosecuted Davis says, "The courts got it right."

SPENCER LAWTON, FMR. CHATHAM DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I'm just disappointed that so many people have been led to believe that nobody has paid attention to the recantations. It is as I explained earlier, simply not the case. It is just not the case. And on what ground are the recantations more believable than the testimony in court? None. None.

MATTINGLY (on camera): Supporters of Troy Davis delivered a massive petition containing over 600,000 names gathered from all over the world to members of the Georgia state pardons and patrol board, members of that board will literally decide if Davis lives or dies.

That same board denied him clemency back in 2008, but now there are three new board members there that have not heard this case before. And supporters of Davis are hoping that their votes will be what it takes to prevent Davis' execution, T.J.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: I want you to stay around for two conversations I'm about to have, one of them is with the mother of the officer killed. Also this morning, coming up next, Reverend Warnock, he is head of the Ebenezer Baptist and he will be in the parole board hearing telling them why they should spare Troy Davis' life. He's with me next. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We turn back now to the story of Troy Davis, getting national, international attention. People wanting to stop his execution because people believe Georgia is going to execute an innocent man in four days. You know the story by now, many witnesses recanted their testimony, changed their testimony, got members of Congress who are questioning the conviction.

Former President Carter questioning it, Desmond Tutu, the Pope even getting involved. Now Reverend Raphael Warnock, he is senior pastor of Ebenezer Baptist.

You will actually be in the room, the parole board is hearing this case on Monday. You'll be testifying and trying to explain to them why Troy Davis' life should be spared. Why?

REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, SR. PASTOR, EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH: That's correct. I will be in the clemency hearing on Monday. And let me say right at the outset that as a pastor I can only begin to imagine the pain that the MacPhail family must be feeling.

Here is a young man who at the age of 28 was out there defending the community, a hero by any account, and who tragically lost his life on that day. There's no pain greater than when nature is reversed and rather than the child burying the parent, the parent has to bury the child.

All of that notwithstanding, Troy Davis should not be executed. There's entirely too much doubt in this case, and the justice that the MacPhail family deserves will not be served by executing Troy Davis.

HOLMES: Now, are you going as far as saying, you personally here - others may have their opinion - should he be freed? Or you're just saying his life should be spared right now? WARNOCK: I'm saying that there's entirely too much doubt for an execution. The parole board will decide what it wants to do, but I will tell you this much. At each turn of this case, some sector of the Justice Department has pressed pause. This very board of pardon and paroles stayed the execution a few years ago, I believe it was 2007, on another occasion it was the Supreme Court who said too much doubt, let's pause. Then it was the 11th Circuit who said too much doubt, let's pause. In a meeting not long ago I met with the district attorney down in Savannah, Georgia.

HOLMES: The current one.

WARNOCK: That's right. He didn't try the case. And even he conceded that were he trying the case today, since it's based in circumstantial evidence, that this would not be a death case for him. And it should not be a death case. Here you have a case based completely in circumstantial evidence, eyewitness testimony, and not one witness, not two witnesses, not two, three.

HOLMES: But seven.

WARNOCK: But seven witnesses have recanted their story.

HOLMES: But the pause analogy you used there, but at each pause and some would say he's gotten more pauses than many others have but at each turn, he has lost in the legal system. So how many more pauses, some will question, before you know it, you've exhausted all the chances, we gave you every chance, it's time to see this thing through?

WARNOCK: That's an excellent question. The reason is, each time the criminal justice system has been focused on procedure. That's what happens in these appeals. They're focused on narrow arguments that lawyers are focused on around procedure.

But the very basic question about Troy Davis' innocence, that's the issue that needs to be addressed. And no wonder that in this case you have not just opponents of the death penalty but those who support the death penalty saying this execution should not go forward. Anytime Jimmy Carter and Bob Barr are on the same side of an issue, we need to pay attention.

HOLMES: Last thing to you here. We all know that people have their doubts, you certainly have yours. But will you acknowledge that there is a possibility that he is guilty?

WARNOCK: I think Troy Davis is innocent. I've met with him a couple of occasions on death row. He's maintained his innocence throughout these years. But the issue really is, is he guilty? That's the question when you're talking about executing a man. I think there's entirely too much doubt. We're better than this. People all over the world are watching Georgia. It's not only Troy Davis' life that hangs in the balance but our name. Because if the state executes him, they execute him in our name. We're saying, save his life and spare our good name. HOLMES: All right. Well, Reverend Warnock, always good to have you. Thank you. We'll be following this story throughout the weekend here.

But up next - a side of the story maybe you don't hear a lot of or maybe enough of. Like Reverend Warnock was mentioning, there is another young man here still to be talked about, a young man, a young police officer who was killed, Mark MacPhail. His mother is here with me next. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Twenty two past the hour.

We have been talking this morning about Troy Davis. He is the Georgia man, the convicted cop killer Troy Davis, who is set to be executed in four days. There has been an outpouring of opposition, people saying there's too many questions that so many witnesses have recanted their testimony, that you just can't execute this it man.

But now we want to talk about the man he's convicted of killing, Mark MacPhail, the police officer. You're seeing his picture there. His mother, Anne MacPhail, is with me this morning.

Ma'am, thank you so much for taking the time. Anne MacPhail, we appreciate you being here.

A lot of people talking about they have doubts about the guilt of Troy Davis. Do you have one bit of doubt that he is the man that killed your son?

ANNELIESE MACPHAIL, MOTHER OF MARK MACPHAIL: Not one minute because of a couple reasons.

HOLMES: Yes, ma'am. Go ahead.

MACPHAIL: If you want me to -

HOLMES: Yes, ma'am - yes, please.

MACPHAIL: Troy Davis had shot Michael Cooper several hours before he killed my son, and nobody ever mentions this. He shot him twice in the face. Then he proceeded to go down there to the Burger King parking lot. The bullets from the first shooting and from the shooting of my son are the same casings. Now, if that is not some kind of sign that that is the same thing, then I don't know what. I know we did not find the gun.

HOLMES: Yes, ma'am, I was going to say, you have no doubts right now, it sounds like. Did you ever have any doubts?

MACPHAIL: Never. Not when I saw him and when I heard the facts, I never.

HOLMES: Why do you think so many people are coming out, I mean, including the former President Carter and the Pope and other people are saying that Troy Davis didn't do this? Why do you think they don't know what you say you know?

MACPHAIL: Because they do not know everything. They were not in the courtroom. A lot of lies have been said about the case. A lot of things have not come out in the public that came out at the trial. So this is why they believe. And a lot of people don't even know what it's all about.

HOLMES: Do you think a lot of these people are death penalty - they're just against the death penalty or they think specifically that Troy Davis is innocent? Which do you think it is?

MACPHAIL: I think it's more against the death penalty because I don't think they know anything about Troy Davis. We have asked some people, and they don't even know why they were out there. They were told to be out there. But I think it's a death penalty - god, I can't even think.

HOLMES: That's OK. You're fine.

MACPHAIL: That's what they're against because most of them don't even know what all happened.

HOLMES: Ma'am -

MACPHAIL: And I tell you that he shot that guy before and the casings are the same. Now, I think those are pretty good evidence.

HOLMES: Ma'am, do you plan on being there if this execution goes forward?

MACPHAIL: No.

HOLMES: Why not?

MACPHAIL: Part of my family will be there. I don't need to be there. I'm going to be at the hearing on Monday, but I will not be there Wednesday.

HOLMES: Ma'am, I want you to take a moment. I'll give you a moment. You describe - because so much attention has been paid to that side and saving Troy Davis' life and his four execution dates he has had now, this is the fourth. But what has it been like you the past 20 years waiting for justice, certainly, in your eyes and having to go through four execution dates yourself? What has it been like for you in the midst of losing your son?

MACPHAIL: It has been hell. Because I would like to have some peace. I would like to have this situation over with. We are the victims, and those people that recanted, why did they wait 17 years before they recanted? They should have done it if they felt that way earlier. Not when the final time has come now. I do not believe that - if they think they would have been coached, I think they coached by the wrong people.

HOLMES: Justice only comes for you -

MACPHAIL: (INAUDIBLE)

HOLMES: Justice and closure only comes for you when Troy Davis is finally executed?

MACPHAIL: I will never have closure because that can't be, but I may have some peace, which I hope for. I certainly need it.

HOLMES: All right. Anne MacPhail, ma'am, we appreciate you taking the time with us. This has been a tough 20 years for you and your family as well but important for you to share your story. Thank you so much for your time.

MACPHAIL: You're very welcome.

HOLMES: All right. Twenty seven minutes past the hour. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)