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CNN Saturday Morning News

Amanda Knox Appeal Nears End; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Bank of America's New Fee

Aired October 01, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: As we come up on the top of the hour, giving you a look at some of the stories happening across the country.

One of the creators of Doritos will be buried today along with his snack chips. Arch West died late last month at the age of 97. "The Dallas Morning News" reports his family is planning a pretty unusual burial. They say they'll be sprinkling Doritos over his grave.

Also, out in San Francisco, over the Bay Area, a teacher is in some trouble for, listen to this, banning God bless yous after kids sneeze in his classroom. The health teacher says the ban here isn't about religion at all. He says the phrase isn't relevant and it disrupts his class time.

(MUSIC)

HOLMES: Top of the morning to you, folks, on this CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

Voters could be going from the shopping mall to the voting booth this holiday season. New Hampshire threatening to move its first in the nation presidential primary to December, why? Just blame Florida for it. I'll explain.

Also, more reported cases of infection and deaths related to that cantaloupe recall and an important warning for you. You could still get sick from tainted cantaloupes you ate two months ago -- important information for you this morning.

Also, do you have 60 bucks a year to just spare? Well, that's good if you're a customer of Bank of America, because they'll take it. And they plan to start charging customers to use their own debit cards.

People, as you can imagine, a little upset. We'll let you know if there's any way around those fees.

But, I'm T.J. Holmes. So glad you could spend part of your morning here with us.

And there is a new warning to tell you about. For a local law enforcement, while you were out last night, this is what you missed. Police across the country were being told that terrorists could be preparing to attack in retaliation for the government's killing of one of their leaders. We're talking about Anwar al-Awlaki killed in a CNN drone strike in Yemen. Now, we actually have that warning that the FBI actually sent out. Homeland security sent out your local police departments. It says that al-Awlaki's death caused a high level of interest on Web sites with, quote, "violent extremist content."

They say sympathizers right here in the U.S. could be motivated to attack because of al Awlaki's popularity. The CIA and others tracked him with drones for about two weeks -- much like they did with Osama bin Laden. He is blamed for inspiring the underwear bomber to try and blow up that plane over Detroit back in 2009.

Another part of this story is the question of whether it's legal to target a U.S. citizen. Al Awlaki was born in New Mexico.

That's our question Erin Burnett posed to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This individual was clearly a terrorist. And, yes, he was a citizen, but if you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. And that means that we have the ability to go after those who would threaten to attack the United States and kill Americans. There's no question the authority and the ability to go after a terrorist is there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: You'll be able to hear the entire interview with Leon Panetta on the premiere of "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT." That's Monday, 7:00 Eastern Time.

Three minutes past the hour now.

Cantaloupes, eating cantaloupes and dying from it -- that's according to the CDC. If you have a cantaloupes from Jensen Farms in Colorado, just throw it away. No questions asked. Get rid of it.

Fifteen people have died from an outbreak of Listeria that's linked to these tainted cantaloupes, 80 people have gotten sick. The CDC says you may already be infected with the bacteria but just don't know it yet. Pay attention to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS OF DISEASE CONTROL: It can take a week to three weeks after you eat a contaminated product before you become ill and it can take as much as two months to become ill. Furthermore, some people may still have the Jensen Farm cantaloupe in their refrigerators.

If you have a cantaloupe that's labeled as something other than Jensen Farm, then it's OK to eat. But if the label looks like this, that's what the Jensen Farm label looks like, then it is not safe to eat. Throw it out. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, Listeria bacteria usually causes flu like symptoms. But infection can also be deadly, as you know. Jensen Farms recalled its Rocky Ford cantaloupe more than two weeks ago. All of those are probably off store shelves now. Expect to see the number of cases of Listeria go up because it takes so long for some people to feel sick after eating these tainted melons.

Now, Listeria fears behind a recall of bagged lettuce from a California company. True Leaf Farms are recalling tens of thousands bags of shredded romaine lettuce shipped to 19 states and Canada. It had a "use by" date of September 29th.

HOLMES: Five minutes past the hour now.

Voting in 20912 presidential race could actually start this year. You heard me right. Why is this happening? Well, New Hampshire is now threatening to move its primary to December. Yes, you could be voting around the holidays.

They're doing this in response to Florida moving its primary to the 31st.

New Hampshire, as you know, traditionally the first primary of the season following the Iowa caucuses. They want to keep that way. They were originally scheduled to have the primary in February.

This decision could have a big impact on the candidates. They don't have as much time, of course, to go out and campaign. What about the un-committed candidates?

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, you've heard about him and his possible run though he says he's not going to. And also, Sarah Palin is still flirting with the idea. They would have to get in, make up their minds soon.

New Hampshire has moved up their filing date, now starts the in about two weeks, ends before the end of the month. Anybody who wants to get in the race, you have less time to make up your mind or the name of yours will not be on the ballot.

I want to show you something now that Casey Anthony's attorneys didn't want you to see or the jury to see but we are now seeing it for the first time.

Take a look. It's grainy surveillance video from a jailhouse medical facility. This video is from 2008. You see her there sitting down rocking back and forth in her chair.

Now, this, we're told, is the reaction she had after seeing the first news reports that a child's remains were found near the Anthony home. Those remains later identified as that of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee. It happened a week later that the ID was made. The judge in the case said initially it was too inflammatory to be played in court.

Casey Anthony was acquitted, as you know, of murder in the case. Her attorneys say Caylee died accidentally.

Now, a couple of high-profile trials we have been watching this week. One, the Michael Jackson death trial in Los Angeles, and the Amanda Knox trial in Italy. She is the American student convicted of killing her housemate back in 2009.

Her defense has summed up their case now. But the last thing the judges will hear before making a decision, they will hear from Amanda Knox herself. She'll plead her own case in court on Monday.

Let's say hello to our friend, Holly Hughes, joins me now, talk about this case. Is that going to be the key for her? All the attorneys can do all their talking, but when she opens her mouth, is that what might save her in this appeals round?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: I think it might, T.J., and the reason that I say that to you this morning is because initially one of the big things that played into her conviction was her odd behavior, what the Italian people viewed as inappropriate. She wasn't crying. She wasn't falling out. She wasn't grief stricken when her British roommate was found murdered.

Instead, she was kind of laughing and seemed a bit indifferent at times. Then she implicated a man who we find out later had absolutely nothing to do with it, her old boss. So, then, her diaries come out, right, and they're talking about her sexual escapades, and calling her "Foxy Knoxy."

So, a lot of her reputation was brought into that courtroom. And I think it weighed heavily against her. What we see now is a young woman who has grown up in the past four years. She is a lot thinner. She is a lot more drawn. She is no longer the -- you know, a beautiful girl that they all saw and wanted to call names.

And I think she has come to realize that her own behavior played a part in it. I think we're going to see a very, very different Amanda Knox when she testifies before that judge and jury on Monday.

HOLMES: When this appeal trial was different in that so much attention now -- so much attention on her reputation, now it seems it's on the evidence and we're talking about one knife, the DNA seems to be in question. It seems there's no physical evidence anymore.

HUGHES: That's exact hi right. It is a fair statement and what's really interesting -- this appeals process in Italy is not what the American public thinks of when they think of an appeal. When we have an appeal, what we do is the lawyers send their briefs, their written motions in and they say, you know, to the appellate court, we think the judge made a mistake based on some area of law, some ruling, keeping evidence in, keeping evidence out, and a panel of appellate judges hears that argument.

In Italy, she's actually got a jury, plus two judges who are rehearing all the -- it's like a whole new trial. And so, the judges themselves appointed those DNA experts. So, these aren't hired guns by the defense, which is a lot of the arguments we see in American courts, well, you can get somebody and you can pay them to say anything.

HOLMES: Yes.

HUGHES: The DNA experts appointed by the courts have said this DNA that you claim is the victim's could have come from rye bread. T.J., rye bread, that's the testimony.

And the knife that was in the boyfriend's apartment where Amanda Knox cooked. Of course, her DNA is going to be on the handle. Of course, it is.

HOLMES: All right. So, she testifies on Monday. If they rule that she can cut loose, is she free to go that moment and heading right to the airport?

HUGHES: Yes. You'd better believe it. She is getting out of dodge.

HOLMES: All right. Ten minutes past the hour.

Holly Hughes is going to be with me on the other side of this commercial break because I told you, that was one high profile case. The other, of course, Michael Jackson -- if you weren't able to keep up all week, maybe you're working, a lot of developments in that courtroom. We're going to get into it with her right after the break.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Twelve minutes past the hour.

Attorney Holly Hughes back with me. We're talking about Amanda Knox moment ago.

Now, let's talk to this other case that has the nation's attention. We're talking about Dr. Conrad Murray, the trial going on in Los Angeles -- as you know, accused of administering a lethal dose of drugs that killed Michael Jackson.

We had a dramatic week of testimony. We heard from the doctor that pronounced him dead. We heard a phone call from Michael Jackson before his death. Also, we heard full details of the autopsy.

Is it clear to you, so far, for the first week, what the prosecution's case is going to be and what the defense is going to try to counter with? Can we already see this taking shape?

HUGHES: Absolutely and the reason we know is because the prosecution has the burden of proof. So, they go first, T.J. They have put up all these witnesses to try and establish elements of the crime. They have to prove to the jury certain things occurred or did not occur in order to meet that burden.

So, they have called a series of witnesses and they've been extremely important because what they did first was sort of set the stage. They played that horrible, horrible call where we hear for the first time ever a Michael Jackson we don't recognize. We heard this slurring, and this very slow, obviously impaired person. We don't know what he's impaired on but it is sad. It's heartbreaking this hear this man.

So, so they start with the argument that this doctor knew or should have known right up front this man had a problem. OK? And then what we find, that's a May 10th recording. They then proceed to say leading up to the time of his death what did Dr. Murray do and not do?

And the argument here is that his standard of care that he gave to Michael Jackson, his patient, was so deficient, was so negligent, that it rises to the level of criminal responsibility.

HOLMES: Now, you said leading up to care. Does it always come -- does it also come into play his behavior after we knew Michael Jackson was in trouble?

There's some question about whether or not the paramedics were called quickly enough and they're testifying that maybe Michael Jackson could have been saved.

HUGHES: Absolutely. There are a couple of different principles operating here. One is what we call totality of the circumstances.

So they are going to look at the behavior leading up to, the time surrounding that actual death when he passed away and what happens afterwards, what do you do? And the second legal principle is, consciousness of guilt. When you have a patient in serious distress, who may already be deceased, you know, are you going to still try and attend to the patient or, even more, there is testimony that this man was first introduced to Michael Jackson by attending to his children. His children had gotten the sniffles, had gotten sick out in Las Vegas it. They went to Dr. Murray.

So even if as a doctor, as a healer, a person who took the Hippocratic Oath, you believe there's nothing further you can do for your patient, tend to the children. What the prosecution has put in front of the jury this week is instead seeing through the children who were right outside that room, T.J., the testimony was so strong that Paris screamed out daddy and was on the floor in the ball crying.

Conrad Murray does not go to see about who are his other patients. What he does according to the state's witnesses is start gathering up evidence, gathering up Propofol, putting it in bags, taking down the I.V. drip, putting it in a bag.

And when the paramedics come and they say, what did you give him? What is he on in an effort to save his life? He does not -- it's a lie by omission. He doesn't say Propofol. He doesn't say it to the E.R. doctors trying to do something to save his life.

HOLMES: And that was absolutely needed to know that.

Holly Hughes, thank you so much on both of these cases. We are going to be seeing a lot more of Holly Hughes as the cases -- one winding down and one really is just getting started. So, good to have you back.

HUGHES: Thanks, T.J.

HOLMES: All right. We're at 16 minutes past the hour now.

And you have probably heard it by now. It doesn't matter how much you spend. You can use your debit card to buy a bottle of water that costs you $1 and then it's going to cost you $5 in a monthly fee for using that debit card.

You heard me right. The biggest bank in the country is soon going to start charging you to use your own money. Can you get around this?

Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Eighteen minutes past the hour.

If there was ever a Saturday morning you need to hear from this guy, it's this morning. Everybody is upset.

Clyde Anderson, they're not upset with you. But you'd better tell us something good here. We're talking about Bank of America now deciding starting next year they want to charge you $5 a month for simply using your ATM card.

CLYDE ANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Exactly.

HOLMES: First of all, the reaction. What have you seen?

ANDERSON: Oh, man. I mean, everybody is abuzz with this. This is what people are talking about. It didn't help they had outages yesterday early in the morning, the system was down. And so, now, they're making this transition, and this is what everybody is talking about, because it sounds like David and Goliath. Goliath is stepping again on the smaller guy, and people are feeling. And they got a lot to say about it.

HOLMES: Their explanation for why they -- they almost say they need to do this.

ANDERSON: Yes. Well, what's happened is regulation changed. They've been handed a new mandate that's come down to say that they cannot charge retailers as much as they used to charge them for the debit fees that they're used to getting.

HOLMES: So, they're saying they're out of money over here and we need to make it up.

ANDERSON: They're going to make it up with you and it's almost $3 billion that we're talking about here that they'll make up with this $5 charge that adds up to about $60 per person, per account. That's about $3 billion a year.

HOLMES: How many other banks are doing this right now? ANDERSON: Well, we've seen the trend is here. We've seen Sun Trust, we've seen Wells Fargo kind of trying it out. And we're seeing these people kind of bring it in, $5, you know, is a little higher than we've seen in some of the other banks, but we're seeing the trend happening.

HOLMES: OK. Is there any way you can get around this?

ANDERSON: Well, I think one of the ways -- they talk about online. For $8.95, Bank of America we can do all e-banking. You need all your statements online, you can do all your banking online. But also that you can go to the ATM.

So, what they're seeing is you only get charged a fee if you use the debit card at a store.

HOLMES: You can't walk around with that much cash. We just don't do it.

ANDERSON: We don't it. It's not realistic for a lot of people depending on what you're doing. Everyday purchases it may be normal. I mean, sometimes, we only spend $100 a day and less in a lot of cases. So, if that's the case, you may be able to be prepared.

HOLMES: Here's our other problems. Some people say, all right, I will give up the debit card. I'll use my credit card.

ANDERSON: Exactly.

HOLMES: All right. But your problem there, you might get hosed interest as well.

ANDERSON: You're paying interest on it. So, it's almost like what you really have to look at it and people are saying it's a smaller bank.

You know, a lot of people aren't realizing a smaller bank, you know, we're talking about less than $10 billion in assets, and do a majority of the loans anyway right now.

HOLMES: OK.

ANDERSON: And so, this maybe something to look at right now. Your community banks, smaller banks, maybe even your credit union don't charge you.

HOLMES: But they're not doing it now. But could they eventually?

ANDERSON: Could in the future. But right now --

HOLMES: Is it a bad sign? Is Bank of America is the biggest dog on the block doing it, everybody is going to follow.

ANDERSON: Well, you know, with the big banks. And that's why I think a lot of people have problems because they got bailed out. They got this money from the government. They got the bank bailed out and now we're paying for it.

Our tax dollars helped them to get out of this mess and now they're hitting us again with this fee. So, a lot of people are having a hard time swallowing it.

HOLMES: OK. The other thing people are saying, you know what? I'll just switch banks. I'll stick it to Bank of America. That's not easy to do.

ANDERSON: It's not easy to do, especially if you have direct deposits and accounts already set up. It's not easy to do. So, it's a lot of red tape and hurdles that you have to jump to.

Now, Bank of America also introduced a new account, enhanced account, as well as a premium and a platinum account. And so, platinum account is pretty much for people who have investments with the bank. And then the other accounts, we have to have certain minimums.

So, they're ruling these things out --

HOLMES: Most of us don't have that.

ANDERSON: Majority of Americans don't have it.

HOLMES: So, what they're telling me -- carry cash or look into smaller banks, credit unions.

ANDERSON: That's what I say right now.

HOLMES: We just don't carry that much cash.

ANDERSON: We just don't carry that much cash.

HOLMES: All right, my man, always good to see you.

ANDERSON: The pleasure is mine.

HOLMES: Thanks so much.

Twenty-one minutes past the hour now. In the race to be first in the nation, voters in one state may start casting ballots this year for the 2012 presidential election. We'll explain where and why when we come back.

Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, at 25 past the hour.

Some of the stories making headlines:

Police across the country being told that terrorists could be preparing to attack in retaliation for the government's killing of one of their leaders. Anwar al-Awlaki was killed in a CIA drone strike in Yemen. The warning sent by FBI and Homeland Security to your local police says al Awlaki's death cause add high level of interest on Web sites with, quote, violent extremist content. They say sympathizers here in the U.S. could be motivated to attack because of his popularity.

Also, the 2012 presidential race may begin earlier than ever. That's because New Hampshire is now threatening to move its primary to December. It's in response to Florida moving up its primary to January 31st.

Also, the CDC says 15 people have died from a Listeria outbreak traced to cantaloupe grown on a Colorado farm. Eighty-four more people have gotten sick. Meanwhile, the FDA is recalling more than 2,000 the cartons of lettuce harvested in California over concerns of possible Listeria contamination. The chopped or shredded romaine lettuce were shipped to distributors in 19 states and Canada.

I'm right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, this kind of work is going to continue for the next several weeks. These daredevil engineers looking at earthquake damage on the Washington Monument. They've been checking it out. Some of the pictures are incredible, they have been taking up there. But this work will continue for the next several weeks. We'll keep a close eye on them.

For now, thank you for being with us. I'll be back with you top of the hour with more live news.