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CNN Saturday Morning News

Twelve Killed in Theater Shooting; Suspect's Apartment Booby Trapped; No Known Motive for Massacre; James Holmes Suspected in Shooting; Hundreds Dead in Syria Fighting

Aired July 21, 2012 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Gary Tuchman in for Randi Kaye. It's 7:00 here in Atlanta, Georgia, 5:00 in Aurora, Colorado.

For those of you just joining us, I'd like to quickly get you up to speed. We're learning more now about the victims of the movie theater shooting. More names in fact. This is one of the victims, 23-year- old Micayla Medek. And then there's this man, Alex Sullivan. This is his Facebook page. Just moments ago we learned another name, another victim, Matt McQuinn.

We'll learn more about them all in a couple of minutes.

This was the scene last night in front of the theater where the shooting took place. Also we now know that the bodies of the victims have all been removed from the theater. It took hours for police to clear the scene.

And finally, the suspect, James Holmes, he's in police custody. We expect to see him for the first time Monday for his first court appearance.

Let's stay on the suspect for right now. Investigators are still waiting to get into his apartment. Looking through the window they found an arsenal and they found booby-traps.

Our Poppy Harlow is at the apartment complex this morning.

Poppy, good morning to you. How long will it be until police can get into the apartment? Do we know?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We now have an answer to that. This just coming into our Nick Valencia at CNN.

Frank Fania, he's with the Aurora Police Department, Gary. He tells us that the fire department here, along with ATF, will be returning to the residence of James Holmes, that's right behind my right shoulder here, at around 7:00 a.m. local time. That's two hours from now, in Colorado.

It's not clear whether they're going to be allowed or plan to go into the apartment but they will come back here on scene. We will certainly be trying to talk to them. The reason that we don't know whether they'll go in or not is because of how vexing, how perplexing a situation this is.

As I look at the apartment of James Holmes, it is lit up with sort of an orange glow. And there are many questions about what is in there, how intense these booby-traps are, whether there are indeed explosives as James Holmes, the suspected shooter, told police yesterday when he was arrested. Take a listen to the police chief, Dan Oates, talking about the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAN OATES, AURORA, COLORADO POLICE: It is a very vexing problem how to enter that apartment safely. I personally have never seen anything like what the pictures show us is in there. I'm a layman when it comes to bomb stuff. I see an awful lot of wires, trip wires, jars full of ammunition, jars full of liquid. Some things, things that look like mortar rounds. We have a lot of challenges to get in there safely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And, Gary, the way that they're seeing these pictures is it they actually sent in robots on Friday yesterday to assess the situation, take pictures of what was in the apartment and then the bomb disposal went through that video that the robots were able to capture to see exactly how bad it was and what they're dealing with here.

TUCHMAN: Now, Poppy, I don't know why Holmes told the police about the booby-traps. But I do know that if he would have died during all this that it's likely more people would have died going into his apartment because they wouldn't have known about this. Now are the --

HARLOW: Yes.

TUCHMAN: Are the explosives experts bringing in extra resources to help with the apartment search this morning? Do you know that?

HARLOW: They absolutely are. What we're hearing is that the federal government is sending people and resources to assess the situation, to help as much as they can. It's just so odd and unusual what happened. There was techno music blaring out of the apartment after James Holmes left. Apparently he had set it on a timer.

Take a quick listen to a neighbor who described what she was dealing with at the time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLYN FONZI, NEIGHBOR: I like kicked it and I was banging on, like, wailing on the door. Because I was mad. I mean that's just how I am. If somebody is going to be disturbing something I will just feel like, you know, I'll tell them. I never imagined something like this. I mean, who does?

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: No one imagined something like this. Gary, as I told you earlier, this building and the five around it were evacuated. What we also know is it's right across the street from the university medical school where Holmes attended. So a lot of the people, the neighbors in this building that had been evacuated were medical students and students studying health sciences. So you can suspect a lot of young people as well are trying to find out what the future of their homes is going to be.

Again, 7:00 local time, two hours from now we will have ATF on scene and we'll have more information for you then.

TUCHMAN: And it does appear, Poppy, a tense, stressful and dramatic morning ahead of us.

Poppy Harlow, you'll be there reporting it. Thank you very much.

Well, that is the story for now from James Holmes's apartment building. But still investigators seem no closer to knowing why this all went down.

I want to show you this eerie picture, it's the gas mask that we believe was worn by Holmes as he carried out the attack.

Our Drew Griffin has more on the suspect and what we've learned about him so far.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Gary, in cases like this, so many that you and I have reported in the past we look for YouTube rants, Facebook postings, the obvious things. Court cases, arrest records, old girlfriends who might have something to say about the suspect. But in the case of this man, James Holmes, there is nothing so far emerging that would point to anything as to why he would do this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): He'd been living not far from this movie theater for the the past year because it was also close to the University of Colorado Medical School where Holmes was a graduate student in neurosciences. According to the school, he was in the process of withdrawing as a student last month. The school frankly won't tell us much about his grades, the classes he took or anything else.

We do know he did give a student lecture this past March on something called micro RNA biomarkers. If you look it up, it's about an emerging area of neuroscience, the study of nerves that relate to cancer research. And the school says Holmes worked in a paid position there as well. But no details.

Before that it was a middle upper class upbringing in California. High school in San Diego, an undergraduate degree from the University of California in Riverside in 2010. School administrators there said he had an outstanding academic record. CHANCELLOR TIM WHITE, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, RIVERSIDE: Here's an honor student. So academically he was at the top of the top. You know, he really distinguished himself from an academic point of view during his four years with us, graduating with highest honors.

GRIFFIN: So how is this honor student, this Ph.D. candidate, this budding neuroscientist, suddenly becoming completely a different person dressed and, according to police, armed to kill.

OATES: The suspect was dressed all in black. He was wearing a ballistic helmet, a tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throw protector and a groin protector and a gas mask, and black tactical gloves.

GRIFFIN: Was the person delusional? Was there mental illness involved? As we try to piece this together I want to share with you what New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly had released on what he learned of the suspect that may have a tie to the actual movie.

COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE: We have some information. I believe most of it is public. Clearly looks like a deranged individual. He had his hair painted red. He said he was the Joker.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Gary, this is the third time I've been sent by CNN to a shooting almost exactly like this. The shooting at Virginia Tech, the shooting in Arizona of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. Young men, college age, going to college, secretly plotting and planning and carrying out these massacres. And right now we just don't have any answers as to why it happened -- Gary.

TUCHMAN: Drew, thank you very much.

And Drew brings up a good point. It's so depressing seeing these things repeat themselves over and over and over again.

Let's remember the victims now, the 12 people who lost their lives and 58 others wounded.

Nick Valencia has some new information. A fourth victim has been identified -- Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Gary, that's right. This morning new information into the CNN NEWSROOM. This attributed to the "Dayton Daily News." We're finding out the names of one of the 12 that perish at the guns of James Holmes. This according to "Dayton Daily News."

Matt McQuinn was killed, one of the 12 that were killed there on early Friday morning in Aurora, Colorado. His family, like many others of the victims, agonized for hours to find out that he was dead. He died while covering his girlfriend, Gary, while shielding her from the bullets at the hands of James Holmes. And in fact, if you can believe this, the hospital wouldn't confirm his condition to his girlfriend because they are not related. Another one of the victims of the four that we have -- that we're hearing are among the list of the dead, Alex Sullivan, who planned to reign in his 27th birthday on Friday with that movie, "The Dark Knight." Unfortunately he perished. And he also planned to celebrate his first year wedding anniversary on Sunday. Sullivan's uncle describes him as a funny guy, witty, smart, loving with just a big heart. You can tell right there in those photos there with his wife.

The Sullivan family released a statement saying, "The Sullivan family lost a cherished member of their family today. Alex was smart, funny and above all, loved dealer by his friends and family." They said today, Friday, when they released the statement, was his 27th birthday.

And Micayla Medek, 23, she was also among the dead. We learned that information from her father's cousin. She's described as being funny, outgoing and very spiritual, very tied to God. Her family took 19 hours to find out whether or now she was dead or alive. They learned that -- of her fate late Friday night. CNN confirmed that early this morning.

And Jessica Ghawi, the face of this shooting here, her brother Jordan has been very active on social media. Trending that #ripJessica. She was an aspiring sports broadcaster, somebody that no doubt would have had a tremendous impact on our field. Loved by many. She was shot in the leg, according to a witness, and then shot in the head. That fatal shot took her life.

She moved from Denver from Texas about a year ago to pursue her dream of becoming a sports broadcaster. She was also a survivor of that recent mall shooting, Gary, if you remember, in Toronto. It's incredible. Her mom spoke to our local affiliate San Antonio KSAT.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDY PHILLIPS, JESSICA'S MOTHER: I'll never have her to hug again or get a text message again or get a funny Facebook picture. That's the hard part right now. Just knowing those are things that I'm never going to get to experience again. I was blessed only for 25 years, but I was blessed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Just a tearful remembrance there from her mother. Just a tragic situation for all involved.

And of course, Gary, CNN is making calls this morning. We've got our national desk on assignment here. And we will update you with more names of the victims.

Just a little bit to remind you, the youngest of the victims that was shot at, a 4-month-old. Also we got this information yesterday from CNN's Barbara Starr, the Pentagon releasing a statement saying four servicemen, two sailors and two airmen also wounded in the incident, one of which is still unaccounted for -- Gary. TUCHMAN: And once again, Nick, the suspect in all these shootings, James Holmes. And what's so tragic for these families, not only are they lose -- they're losing their loved ones but they had to wait hours and hours and hours to find out. It's just unbelievably difficult to comprehend.

VALENCIA: It is heartbreaking.

TUCHMAN: Nick Valencia, thank you.

One man, three deadly minutes. That's all it took to kill 12 people and injure more than 50 others. I'll speak with a firearms expert about just how powerful those guns were.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TUCHMAN: One of the victims was 23-year-old Micayla Medek. Her family knew she had been shot at the rampage but did not know more than that. It took 19 hours before law enforcement confirmed to Micayla's family that she was among the 12 dead.

On the phone with us right now is Micayla's aunt, Jenny Zakovich.

Jenny, I know that this must be an excruciating time for you so I want to you how grateful we are that you're talking. Tell me how your family is coping right now.

JENNY ZAKOVICH, SHOOTING VICTIM'S AUNT (via phone): Not good. We're just taking it minute by minute. We just wish we could be out there with my brother right now. We're trying to arrange -- sorry. We're trying to put some stuff together to get my family, my -- Micayla's 81-year-old grandma here is in the Milwaukee area. And we want to get us all together and try to maybe rent a van, get out there to be with my brother.

She was a great kid. She was just finding herself. She would never harm anybody. She didn't deserve to die this way.

TUCHMAN: Jenny, I feel -- everyone in this building and all of our viewers feel so terrible for you and your family, and the families of the other victims. I think what made it so much harder, unfortunately, this is a necessity. We see this in the tragedies that we cover is that sometimes the authorities don't let you know right away.

ZAKOVICH: Right.

TUCHMAN: That your loved one was killed because they want to be, they want to be definitive. But it's very painful. And I want to know, 19 hours. This just must have been so excruciating for your family yesterday.

ZAKOVICH: It was terrible. We would get a call -- my brother got the call at 1:00 in the morning from Micayla's friend saying she had been shot. And he waited to tell -- I don't know what time it was in Colorado but here in Milwaukee it was almost 11:00 in the evening by the time we got the story that she was one of the dead laying in the theater.

And the thought of her laying there for almost 20 hours. He was beside himself. He was such a good dad. They were so close. And she's such a great daughter. Never gave any problems to him.

TUCHMAN: Jenny, Jenny, you are, you are her dad's sister. I just want to --

ZAKOVICH: Yes.

TUCHMAN: Our viewers aware o that.

ZAKOVICH: Yes.

TUCHMAN: That's how you know so well how her dad --

ZAKOVICH: He comes from -- my brother comes from a family of 11 kids. So he was one of the younger. I'm one of the older. And, you know, we're a pretty darned close-knit family. And something like this, you know, normally tears people apart. I think it's bringing us closer. But I just -- I just can't even imagine. I have five kids of my own. I can't imagine losing one of them. And he has two daughters. And this is his baby.

TUCHMAN: No parent can imagine something like that, Jenny. I -- and you're talking to me about being close. Tell me about the kind of young woman she was.

ZAKOVICH: She was just a free spirit. She was a happy person. She didn't -- she never criticized people. She just -- you know, she was just working at a subway trying to find her way. She was just a great kid. She has a very loving sister. And they were very close. Amanda searched all day yesterday hospital to hospital looking for her. Just devastated not finding out any news.

And I don't know what else to say about her other than she's going to be really missed.

TUCHMAN: Tell me, Jenny --

ZAKOVICH: It's just a senseless, senseless crime.

TUCHMAN: Jenny, tell me about --

ZAKOVICH: I feel for the family of -- I feel for the family of the shooter. I can't imagine what they're going through at this time. Just let them know we don't blame them for his actions. And my heart goes out to the mom and dad of that family, too.

TUCHMAN: Tell me, Jenny, how Micayla's father is doing right now in your opinion.

ZAKOVICH: I haven't talked to him since last night. And it was really hard for him to talk to anybody. He's having a hard time with it. He has a -- he's a very -- he has a strong faith, and this has really shaken him. TUCHMAN: You were saying --

ZAKOVICH: You know, to get a call at 1:00 in the morning and then you're on the edge of your seat for 20 hours waiting and waiting and waiting and not knowing.

TUCHMAN: Jenny, did --

ZAKOVICH: He held out hope until the very end.

TUCHMAN: Jenny, did you know or did her father know or did anyone know she was even at the movie?

ZAKOVICH: Yes. She updated -- her father talked to her before that and then she updated her Facebook page at about 8:00, I think, in the evening, saying that she was going to this movie with I think there was about 10 friends. And it would be a nice group of friends. They all were very concerned that everybody was accounted for except Micayla. And he searched for her and, you know, kept the family informed. And they knew that she was shot and that she went down.

And the way my brother explained is they ushered them out saying you can't help her now, you know, like they were going to get help. But I'm guessing she was too critical. I don't know any details about, you know, where she was shot or anything. But I'm hoping she didn't suffer too long because she didn't deserve this.

TUCHMAN: Micayla is a beautiful name and you've told us about a beautiful young woman. And you've done it very well. And I will tell you, Jenny, it's a tribute to your niece that you've spoken to us and let the whole world know about your niece, Micayla.

I wish you and your entire family, all of us here at CNN, wish you the absolute best.

ZAKOVICH: Can't --

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKOVICH: I can't wait to get our to Colorado to be with my brother.

TUCHMAN: We will be -- we will be -- you know, we will be thinking about you. So thank you for talking with us.

ZAKOVICH: All right. Thank you.

TUCHMAN: Jenny Zakovich, the aunt of Micayla Medek, one of the four victims whose names are now publicized.

We've heard the gunman was shooting people at random. What one eyewitness says there was a pattern. The suspect was spraying bullets like a sprinkler sprays water. We'll talk to that witness later this hour.

A dead man walking. That's what a retired military general has to say about Syria's President Bashar al-Assad as violence inside the country heats up. But he doesn't stop there. Major General James "Spider" Marks joins me in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TUCHMAN: More on the movie theater rampage in Colorado shortly. But first to Syria. There's word that Syrian forces have launched an all- out assault on opposition strongholds in the capital Damascus after what has been an incredibly violent week.

Look at these numbers. Opposition activists say more than 16,000 people have been killed since the crisis began more than a year ago. Nearly 1,000 last week alone.

Retired Major General James" spider" Marks joins me now.

General, thanks for joining us. Why are we seeing a spike in violence? Is it a sign that Bashar al-Assad's power is teetering?

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): It certainly is. In fact, violence is much like water. It goes where it can, it will flow down the path of least resistance. And that's clearly what you see. The opposition has momentum. It has arms. It has a capability. It has found a weakness in Assad's regime not only in terms of its military but also the -- what I would call the head of his advisory bodies, those defense minister, national security adviser equivalents.

And the fact that they could penetrate that tight-knit group, set off an explosion and kill a number of those folks indicates that Assad truly is on his way out right now.

TUCHMAN: General, the violence comes after the U.N. Security Council tried to slap a new set of sanctions on Syria but failed. Syria's allies and permanent Security Council members China and Russia, they keep saying no. Why do China and Russia continue to go against the U.N. Security Council? Will the the U.N. be able to do anything as long as Russia and China continue to veto sanctions? What do you say about that, General?

MARKS: Well, the United Nations has been able to do something. Frankly, it's minimal and it's essentially very hapless at this point. They still have 300 unarmed advisers. And essentially administrators in country under the head of a two star. There's an -- so there's an international body that's there to observe what's going on. They're essentially holed up at various hotels and protected and out of the way.

So they're achieving no in-state, although the United Nations did just extend their presence in country. So the United Nations is not going to resolve this issue.

What has to happen in parallel, and Secretary Rice indicated this will happen -- or Ambassador Rice has indicated this will happen, is that the United States will work with other partners outside of the United Nations charter to try to achieve some type of instate which would separate the forces.

Frankly, we don't see that happening unless there is some presence -- peacemakers as we call them as opposed to peacekeepers -- that can separate these warring parties.

TUCHMAN: General, three days ago, a critical day, a blast claims the lives of three top officials, Al-Assad's brother-in-law, also his defense minister and a security adviser. What kind of blow is this to Assad's inner circle?

MARKS: Oh, completely. It not only speaks to those individuals -- and we should cry no tears for their departure -- but it really speaks -- Assad now has to look around 360 degrees and try to determine where his weak points are. He's probably going to see that it is very, very weak in a number of places.

So my suggestion is -- and it's not based on any intelligence right now -- but if you're looking -- if past is prologue, what we can see Assad probably trying to do is to get spirited out of country. He's probably looking for some way to depart. Maybe Russia is facilitating that, maybe through proxies so that Assad and his family can disappear.

And then what you'll really see on the ground in Damascus is complete chaos in terms of revenge killings, old and new animosities coming out, opposition forces that have not -- that are galvanized at the departure -- for the departure of Assad but have not come together in terms of what they want Syria to look like moving forward.

So it's going to be an incredibly chaotic scene as Assad's former partners and his advisers try to strike their own deals to get out of there with their lives. They're going to have a hard time finding an exit.

TUCHMAN: A very critical time in Syria, James" Spider" Marks, thank you very much for your insight.

MARKS: Thanks, Gary.

TUCHMAN: The next step with the investigation into the Colorado shooting. The FBI has taken a role in that right now. What are they looking for? We will delve into that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TUCHMAN: It's 7:35 Eastern time, 5:35 Mountain time in Colorado. Welcome back, everyone. I'm Gary Tuchman. Let's get you back up to speed on the latest from Colorado.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Police are still about 30 minutes away from getting back to work on James Holmes's apartment. Actually, it's probably an hour and 30 minutes we're being told now, 7 o'clock Mountain time, 9 o'clock Eastern time.

Holmes is the suspect in that horrific shooting that killed 12 people at that theater in Aurora, Colorado. Investigators say the apartment is booby-trapped and that it may take days to get inside.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): This was the scene last night in front of the theater where the shooting took place. This morning the names of the victims are starting to come out. We'll have more on the victims throughout this morning. Let's get you out to Aurora right now where our Jim Spellman is standing by outside the theater.

Jim, are police expected back there this morning to keep going through the building?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and there's' police still here onsite in fact, Gary, surrounding this movie theater, still cars from patrons who went to see the Batman movie that night. Police had to go through all that and be sure none of that was involved in the crime scene.

Last night around 5 o'clock, they were able to get the last of the bodies out as they were able to sort of process the crime scene, and that was part of them being able to then notify the families. We know that they've notified all those families. We expect those names later this morning.

TUCHMAN: You know, we just saw some video, Jim, from the vigil last night. How is the community coping?

SPELLMAN: Well, you know, I'll tell you, after Columbine, this community here in the Denver area has really been very guarded about the legacy of Columbine and of being sure that that's become a positive thing. And I think you'll see the community here really come together as well.

Sunday night they're planning a big vigil. The governor will be there, something for the whole community to gather around. I think that will really be an important step on trying to move past thinking so much about this alleged shooter and thinking more about their community and how they're strong and resilient and how they're going to move past this, Gary.

TUCHMAN: And Jim, everyone talks about Columbine, remembers Columbine. That was 13 years ago, 1999, 13 people were killed at Columbine High School, 12 so far in this tragedy.

Jim Spellman, thank you very much.

Investigators are having trouble getting into the apartment of James Holmes, the suspect in yesterday's deadly shooting. Inside are trip wires and ammunition. And there's lots of ammunition. It is very dangerous. They will try to get in with the bomb disposal unit today.

We anticipate at about 7 o'clock Mountain time, 9 o'clock Eastern time. Joining me now Tom Fuentes, CNN contributor, former assistant director of the FBI.

Tom, thank you for joining us. What are the top priorities for the investigators who are on the scene right now? What are they doing first? TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Good morning, Gary. I think they're still assessing what they have inside that apartment to the best of their ability to do it from outside the apartment. They would have run optical devices into it, infrared scanners, any number of devices to try to analyze from the outside.

But at some point the only way to do that is going to be for a live person to go inside there. One of the other aspects that would be going on investigatively would be to determine did Holmes have the capability to make booby-traps, to do all of that.

He may have just strung a bunch of wires around and put containers with liquid in it that aren't explosives and not wired up to explode when somebody goes in there. So that they don't know. But they have to prepare for the worst that he did know. But investigatively they will be trying to look at how he would have learned how to do this.

Would he have obtained the information off the Internet? Would he have bought books or taken out library books on how to do various explosive constructions? The problem is that whatever literature or computer access he may have had is in the apartment with his computers and whatever printed material he may have.

So that's the problem is they're trying to figure out what his capability was. Does he have the expertise, what did he learn? If they could identify specifically that he did learn how to make explosive devices like that, what technique? What school of making bombs did he learn that from, which would help them identify how to try to safely neutralize the situation.

TUCHMAN: Tom, a very basic question, but you can give it a good answer with your expertise. Why would he do this in the first place? Why wouldn't it be just enough to do the evil thing that he did? Why is he doing this to his apartment?

FUENTES: Well, actually, Gary, I think that is beyond my expertise. We're talking about his mental condition, whether he's a psychopath or had some type of a seizure or breakdown or something in the last couple of months that caused him to want to go obtain these weapons and ammunition and devices and go forward with this attack. I think everyone --

TUCHMAN: Well, not the -- Tom, not the attack, but why would he do this to his apartment? What's -- from dealing with psychopaths in your career, what's the purpose of doing that? Was he trying to kill more people, trying to scare people? Why was he doing this?

FUENTES: Well, at the minimum, he's tried to scare people and he's done it. He's made the authorities very leery of going in. You have got several buildings, including that one, evacuated. So people are displaced and homeless at the moment because of him. So that's at the minimum.

If he, in fact, had the capability and did wire that up to explode, then obviously he's looking to kill the police and the agents who go to conduct the crime scene investigation. Then that would have been set up for them to be harmed or killed as soon as they entered that apartment. So that we don't know.

And as I said, you won't know for sure until the explosives experts determine and they may find out the hard way, unfortunately, that he did have the capability and did, in fact, wire that place up to explode.

TUCHMAN: Tom Fuentes, your insight is important and appreciated. Thank you very much.

FUENTES: Thank you, Gary.

TUCHMAN: One man, three deadly minutes. That's all it took to kill 12 people and injure 58 others. I will speak with a firearms expert about just how powerful those guns were. That's coming up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TUCHMAN: Police say the suspect who opened fire on a crowded movie theater in Colorado was armed with four guns, all purchased legally. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): He made it inside the theater with an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, and two handguns, a gas canister. Police say he also bought more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition and he bought it online. Victims say the suspect fired off each gun steadily, stopping only to reload.

We've got with us Chris Robinson; he is a firearms expert.

Chris, thank you very much for joining us. We just showed the types of guns used in this shooting. And the question a lot of people want to know is, where would the guy have gotten all the stuff? Like could I buy these guns?

CHRIS ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT: Absolutely.

TUCHMAN: And how long would it take me to get these guns?

ROBINSON: Around two to three days. They just run a background check on you. As long as you pass the background check, you come in and buy the guns within two to three days.

TUCHMAN: So, I mean, I have a clean record, I could easily get the same weapons and ammunition that he had?

ROBINSON: Absolutely.

TUCHMAN: And he threw -- when he went into the theater, this gas canister. What kind of effect did it have on the people inside the theater?

ROBINSON: Well, the tear gas is very effective on your nose, mucous, sinuses, eyes. It even burns the skin to a certain extent. So if you're not used to it you would have a rash effect on the victims.

TUCHMAN: Now, we're hearing that the bullets were so powerful, the weapons were so powerful they actually went through the wall of theater 9 into theater 8, injuring some in that theater. I mean, were these excessively powerful weapons?

ROBINSON: They are 15 -- the bullet is traveling in excess of 2,200 miles per hour.

TUCHMAN: Twenty-two hundred miles?

ROBINSON: Twenty-two hundred miles per hour.

TUCHMAN: I mean, a baseball is pitched 100 miles per hour. That's 22 times faster than the fastest pitcher in major league baseball.

ROBINSON: That's correct. And then the energy of the bullet itself is about 1,200 foot pounds of energy. It's very devastating. That's what our military uses. So it's the same kind of weapon.

TUCHMAN: And it's all legal. Tell me about the ammunition you were talking about. I mean, that's -- maybe the weapons aren't as unusual as the ammunition that he bought.

ROBINSON: Well, the different types of ammunition, the magazine capacity, the drum was the different thing. It holds 100 cartridges in the drum magazine. So that would be a different -- you could purchase that easily from any magazine or any gun store if you know where to go.

TUCHMAN: Do you think this guy knew what he was doing?

ROBINSON: I think it was very clear and thought out. I think he had this well planned. The tear gas canister, the types of weapons, the Glocks, they're all designed to do excessive bodily harm.

TUCHMAN: Could different kinds of gun laws in this country have made a difference?

ROBINSON: I don't think so personally because if you made stricter gun laws, if you want to go buy a gun, we can go buy a gun in Atlanta anywhere right now. I could take you a number of places that I know of personally where I could go buy any gun that you would like on the street and I don't have to pass any gun laws to do that.

TUCHMAN: Oh, legally?

ROBINSON: No, sir. I would just buy them right off the street.

TUCHMAN: Oh, illegally?

ROBINSON: That's correct.

TUCHMAN: So you're saying the gun laws wouldn't make a difference because people would just break the law.

ROBINSON: (Inaudible).

TUCHMAN: Let's say everyone followed the laws. But you don't think that's realistic, you're saying?

ROBINSON: No, sir, I don't. I think it just puts a stricter -- you know, it would make it more strict for the people that are following the laws than the people who are going to break the laws to buy the guns anywhere they wanted to.

TUCHMAN: Well, it's certainly the basis for an argument that a lot of people will have in the days, weeks and months to come after this horrifying incident. Chris, thank you for talking with us.

ROBINSON: Thank you very much, sir.

TUCHMAN: I appreciate your time.

A witness to the Aurora, Colorado, theater shooting says she had five short seconds to determine whether she lived or whether she died. We'll talk to that witness in a moment.

But first meet the man who is making magic with fully interactive art canvases on "THE NEXT LIST." That's tomorrow at 2:00 pm Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEPHEN BARTON, COLORADO SHOOTING VICTIM: After I got hit, I fell to the ground. I was just waiting for the shooting to stop. And it was the thought that passed my mind that, like, this is not actually happening. It was hard to believe it even when it was happening.

And so, I mean, on some level, I guess I realized, there's a shooter in the theater, and he's killing people. But on another level, I guess I really didn't want to believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: The story in Colorado is about more than a troubled young man who opened fire in a movie theater. It's about the people he killed -- we want to emphasize that, the victims and the victims' families who have suffered so much. The victims are still being identified and their families are being notified. The very first name that came out of the chaos was Jessica Ghawi. Poppy Harlow has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A fiery redhead, passionate above all else, in her personal and professional life, her brother, Jordan, tells us. Just 24 years old, Jessica Ghawi, beginning life on her own, an aspiring sportscaster who lived in Denver and went by Jessica Redfield on the air.

What do you want to tell the world about Jessica, your sister, who lost her life far too young?

JORDAN GHAWI, VICTIM'S BROTHER: I want her story to be told. I want her to be remembered and not this gunman. It's a tragedy, but we need to focus on the victims.

HARLOW (voice-over): Jessica's grieving mother:

SANDY PHILLIPS, JESSICA GHAWI'S MOTHER: I'll never have her to hug again or get a text message again or get a funny Facebook picture. That's the hard part right now. Just knowing those are the things that I'm never going to get to experience again. I was blessed. Only for 25 years, but I was blessed.

HARLOW (voice-over): She moved from her Texas home to Denver after begging her parents to let her pursue her dream job.

JESSICA GHAWI, SHOOTING VICTIM: It looks like you got hit with a puck.

HARLOW (voice-over): She'd been looking forward to this big night. Jessica's close high school friend, Brent Lowic, was visiting her to, quote, "share a special screening of this Batman movie together," Brent's stepfather, Dan Green, told us.

"Brent and Jessica were very close," he said. Brent was shot in the backside and also suffered shrapnel wounds. His stepfather says he's undergone surgery, but still has major injuries, though is not in critical condition.

Active on Twitter, Jessica's last tweet came around midnight, saying, "Movie doesn't start for 20 minutes." She had narrowly escaped tragedy just a month ago. A sad irony, her brother and friends tell us, she was at the Eaton Center Toronto Mall, visiting her boyfriend, Jay, a minor league hockey player, when a shooting broke out in the mall food court, just three minutes after Jessica left it.

She recounted the horror on her blog. "I was reminded that we don't know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath. I say all the time that every moment we have to live our life is a blessing. I know I truly understand how blessed I am for each second I am given."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: That's CNN's Poppy Harlow.

We've got much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING about the shooting in Colorado right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just watching the movie. Everything was all quiet. There was something thrown across the room. And in the bottom right, we see -- I saw flashes of light followed by loud noises. I'm thinking someone is just playing around and it's firecrackers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are shot. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All you hear is just gunfire, left and right. Any time somebody would try to just get up and run away, he would just shoot them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt the pepper in my throat and everything and then I realized that it was gunfire. I heard, "Get down, get down."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't have a specific agenda; he was just shooting people left and right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You couldn't see anything. Like, you couldn't see the pepper spray that was in your throat. You just felt it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gotcha.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then from there, I just tried to help the girls that I was with get out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was shooting little kids, you know, like 6- year-old kids, 3-year-old kids, and moms, you know? And I'm like 22 years old and I didn't get shot, and it's like, you know, why didn't he take me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)