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CNN Saturday Morning News

Rebels: Syrian Vice President Defects; Pregnant Leukemia Patient Dies in Dominican Republic Hospital; Salmonella in Indiana Fruit; Shooting Deaths In Louisiana; Election Debates on Medicare; American Fights in Libya; Focus on Rise in White Supremacists; Police: Handcuffed Man Killed Himself; Eat a Home-style Meal in Havana; The State of Education

Aired August 18, 2012 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye. It is 8:00. Thanks for walking up with us.

We begin with a big question mark right now about one of the most powerful man in Syria. Just where is Syrian Vice President Farouk al- Sharaa ? Syrian rebels say they are trying to help him defect to neighboring Jordan, but state-run media insists al-Sharaa has no intention of leaving his homeland.

All this is happening as the death toll in Syria is rising. At least 34 people have been killed across the country today. We'll have a live report in just minutes on the situation there.

Now, a heart-rending story to tell you about. A pregnant 16-year-old leukemia patient has lost her life in the Dominican Republic and now her grieving mother says doctors failed to put her daughter's health first and delayed critical chemotherapy treatment because of the country's stringent anti-abortion laws.

CNN senior Latin American affairs editor Rafael Romo has been following this story for us -- Rafael.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Randi, the teenage girl died from complications of leukemia according to authorities at the hospital in Santa Domingo where she was being treated. Doctors were hesitant to give her chemotherapy because such treatment could terminate the pregnancy, a violation of the Dominican constitution which bans abortion.

She was originally admitted at (INAUDIBLE) hospital in the Dominican capital in early July, but 20 days passed before she finally began receiving the chemotherapy that could have saved her life.

A hospital official told CNN that her condition worsened Thursday evening. She suffered a miscarriage Friday morning, followed by cardiac arrest. Her body rejected a blood transfusion and she died a few hours later.

The girl's mother reacted with great sadness, saying that she feels as if she's died as well and that her daughter was the reason of her existence. She also said, they have killed her. Doctors who treated the patient said that the chances of survival for the teenager were slim when she was admitted at the hospital, even without taking into account the fact that she was 10 weeks pregnant.

ROSA HERNANDEZ, GIRL'S MOTHER (through translator): When we first publicly spoke about her case, we said that she was a patient with a really bad prognosis, not so much because she was pregnant, but because of the characteristics of her kind of leukemia.

ROMO: The case of this teenage girl stirred debate in her country. The question many are now asking is whether she would have been able to survive had she been treated with chemotherapy right after she was admitted to the hospital. According to article 37 of the Dominican constitution, the right to life is inviolable from the moment of conception and until death. Dominican courts have interpreted this as a strict mandate against abortion. Article 37 passed in 2009, also abolished the death penalty.

Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE

KAYE: Rafael Romo, our senior Latin American affairs editor, thank you very much.

New this morning, health officials are warning people to throw out any cantaloupes from southwest Indiana because of a salmonella outbreak. At least two people are dead, 141 people sick from the tainted fruit. This is affecting 20 states seen highlighted here on your screen. The outbreak began in July. Health officials are warning people, don't try to wash the fruit because both the outside and the inside could actually be infected. Just last year 29 people died from a listeria outbreak in cantaloupe.

Now to the Pacific Northwest where a massive wildfire is closing in on a small town in Idaho. The western U.S. has been battling dozens of wildfires, fueled by drought and strong winds. Just look at this video from our iReporter John Cantrell (ph) from earlier this week, incredible scenes there. In Washington, some families are returning to their homes. At least 60 houses destroyed there. Firefighters are still working to contain some fires and people fear a weekend lightning storm could actually start even more.

Now to Louisiana where four men and three women have been arrested in connection with a shooting that left two sheriff's deputies dead, two others wounded. Listen to what the sheriff told one victim's family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MIKE TREGRE, ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST PARISH, LOUISIANA: I told them their loved one, their father, was a hero. The people that they lost their lives for that we have in custody, I believe, are some of the most violent, evil people in -- on the planet and they lost their lives. Their loved ones are heroes. Not us. Not the football teams, not the stars, it's the police officers that gave their lives so we all could be safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: You can see five of the suspects here. The shootings happened 25 miles outside New Orleans on Thursday. The suspects first attacked a deputy while he was directing traffic. Then they fled to their homes in a trailer park and later more deputies came to their homes to investigate and that's when the suspects opened fire.

To politics now. Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan wrapping up a whirlwind week on the campaign trail today in Florida where he's expected to take on the issue of Medicare head on with a special guest, his mom.

Let's bring in CNN political editor Paul Steinhauser. He's at the Villages, a retirement community where Paul Ryan is set to speak this morning.

Paul, I guess he picked the right place, right? The Villages is part of a central Florida area that has the largest number of Social Security recipients in the nation. This is a pretty critical speech in a pretty critical spot.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Exactly, Randi.

Take a look at this behind me. You can tell Medicare is going to be a big issue today. Protect and strengthen Medicare on the banner just behind where Paul Ryan will speak.

This is Florida, of course, the biggest state when it comes to battle grounds. And four years ago Barack Obama narrowly won Florida. Four years ago seniors made up almost a quarter of the voters who cast ballots in the presidential election. That's why so much is at stake. That's why we're really paying attention to this speech.

Since Ryan was named, his budget plan, which would dramatically alter Medicare, has been a huge topic on the campaign trail. And Randi, while the Romney/Ryan ticket has come under attacks from President Obama's campaign, they're pushing back. Take a listen to Paul Ryan yesterday in Virginia on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL D. RYAN (R-WI), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:: We want this debate on Medicare. We want this debate, we need this debate and we're going to win this debate on Medicare. I'll tell you why. There's only one person who treated Medicare like a piggy bank and that's President Obama. He took $716 billion from that program to create Obama care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEINHAUSER: The politics here is simple. Listen, they're saying they're going to protect Medicare, which is a very popular program polls indicate and they're saying the president is taking money from Medicare to pay for the president's health care plan which voters are divided on. The president and his campaign say that's not true at all, that the Romney campaign has their facts wrong and they're battling back with this new brand new television commercial.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADVERTISEMENT ANNOUNCER: I'm Barack Obama and I approved this message. Now Mitt Romney's attacking the president on Medicare. The nonpartisan AARP says Obama care cracks down on Medicare fraud, waste and abuse and strengthens guaranteed benefits. And the Ryan plan? AARP says it would undermine Medicare and could lead to higher costs for seniors. And experts say Ryan's voucher plan could raise future retirees' cost more than $6,000. Get the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEINHAUSER: Two other quick notes. The mentioned the Villages. We're about an hour north of Orlando Randi. This is Republican country, no doubt about it. And also as you mentioned, Paul Ryan's mom will be here. She lives part of the year here in Florida and part of the year back in Janesville, Wisconsin Randi.

KAYE: I bet he's happy to have her on the trail. Let me talk about something else here, switching gears for just a second. We're also getting a look at Paul Ryan's book, so to speak, with the release of his tax returns. In 2011 Ryan and his wife reported a total income of just over $323,000. Of that the Ryan's paid almost $65,000 in taxes they say. That amounts to an effective tax rate of 20 percent. But it's not Paul Ryan's taxes that everyone, including the Obama campaign, wants to know about, right?

STEINHAUSER: Exactly, a couple things about that. When did they release his taxes? Last night, on a Friday night when often, if you don't want to make something get a lot of attention, that's when you release it. Secondly, the Ryans made more money than most middle class Americans and they paid a lower rate than most middle class Americans because of those investments. But you're right, it is the Romney tax returns. That's what the Obama campaign wants to see. This battle is not over yet Randi.

KAYE: Paul Steinhauser, our CNN political editor there in the area of Orlando. Thank you very much.

One of Paul Ryan's colleagues in the House, Democrat Nancy Pelosi, went for a few laughs in late night, talking to NBC's Jimmy Fallon about his selection as Mitt Romney's number two and Ryan's now famous exercise routine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": How about Romney's pick, Paul Ryan?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Yes.

FALLON: What are your thoughts on him?

PELOSI: He's a nice person.

FALLON: Yes.

PELOSI: I don't really know him well because I've never been to the gym.

FALLON: Have you seen him with his shirt off? It's pretty awesome. The guy is ripped. Yes, the guy is ripped.

PELOSI: It takes time.

FALLON: Yes, it's very tough. I got the DVDs. I made it to the first part and then just put on "Finding Nemo."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Very funny. The Curiosity Rover has only been on Mars a few days and it is already getting a new upgrade. That process should take about four days. Meanwhile, we're getting a new look at the surface of the red planet. This 360-degree color image was created from smaller pictures taken by the mass (ph) camera on the rover. Can't get enough of those. It was so cool to see.

Here's what's coming up this hour.

Now video emerges from the night of the fatal shooting of a man in Arkansas but will it answer the question, was it suicide or homicide? Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, the KKK, these groups aren't dying out, they're growing. All morning, we're putting hate in the U.S. in focus. And Later --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where I suspect you'll find me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Young, educated and American. So why did this 33-year-old Georgetown grad pick up arms against the Libyan government and why is he now heading to Syria?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back, everyone, 13 minutes past the hour.

Give a listen to this.

(VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That's exclusive video to CNN from the front lines of Libya shot by an American last year who went there alone to fight in a war zone. The Georgetown University graduate spent months in a Tripoli prison after being captured by Moammar Gadhafi's forces. And now, the American wants to go to the front lines of Syria to spend time with the rebels. CNN's Nick Valencia is joining me now to talk about this. So this isn't some thrill-seeker right? He's really got his eyes set on some sort of mission.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's what he says, that he's going with the right intentions, that his heart is in the right place and he feels like he knows what he's doing. He spent a lot of time Randi in this area. He went on a motorcycle trip a couple years ago, made a lot of friends with the locals there, has an understanding of this region. He has a master's degree from Georgetown University in Middle East security.

So it's not like he just threw a dart at the map and said, I'm going to Libya and now I'm going to Syria. He has some training, no formal military experience or prior U.S. military service, but he has some experience shooting guns, high-powered weapons. He has that experience there in Libya on the front lines.

You can question his sanity, but you can't question his commitment. Eighty-five days in a military (ph) prison there in Libya. It's sort is of incredible that he was able to psychologically withstand that treatment there.

KAYE: What exactly is his goal, though, in going to Syria?

VALENCIA: We've been talking to him back and forth this morning Randi, trading text messages. He says his goal in Syria is to be a film maker. He's not a journalist. He wants to make that clear, not to endanger other people, other journalists that are there. He has picked up weapons in Libya as sort of -- under the Geneva convention. As a journalist, once you pick up a weapon, you're no longer an objective observer.

But going to Syria, he's going to be a film maker there, focus on this documentary, be there for about four months, unconventionally fund this through kickstarter.com, an online fundraising site and he wants to bring attention to the Syrian rebels. He wants to sort of shed misconceptions about the movement there and highlight their work against the Assad regime.

KAYE: In all your conversations with him, did he say anything -- is he concerned that he could be captured?.

VALENCIA: I get the sense that he's terrified. There's that sort of underlying sense that he has this calling and this is his destiny and he feels like he has to go. He's meant to go. It's something that sort of calls people to certain areas and certain countries and this to him is his calling.

We talked to him in his interview. He doesn't like war tourists. He doesn't like people that just sort of parachute into a country and leave. He has every intention of stay there as he did to see the regime fall in Libya. He says he's going to be there for about four weeks in Syria, but he is reluctantly going. He's getting on this plane and he's going to go.

KAYE: His family, girlfriend, they all support him?

VALENCIA His girlfriend of six years still stuck with him believe it or not through that 85 days in prison.

KAYE: Amazing.

VALENCIA: -- not knowing whether he was dead or alive His mother, just like last time, drove him to the airport in Libya. She's planning on driving him again to the airport this time around.

He's from south Baltimore, Maryland. His family there very supportive and it's probably why he has that confidence Randi and sort of has that support system. You have that support system in place, you feel like you can do anything. He feels like now he's going to Syria and he's going to be just as successful as he was in Libya.

KAYE: We certainly wish him luck. Thank you for bringing us his story and I know you're going to stay on this.

VALENCIA: Absolutely.

KAYE: We'll see how he does and when he gets back and check in. Thanks, Nick.

What goes through the mind of a hater? How early is it actually learned? We'll talk with a former skinhead who says that he has had a change of heart. It is part of our focus on hate in the USA.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: All morning long we've been focusing on hate in the USA. Just what goes through the mind of someone who hates, hating to the point that they are willing to kill. That's what we wanted to find out. Brian Todd is on the case.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Randi, while law enforcement officials try to ascertain a specific motive for the shootings, we're getting some idea of the possible mindset, the lifestyle of the suspect from someone who says he's been in those shoes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Arno Michaelis never met Wade Michael Page but says he can identify with him.

ARNO MICHAELIS, FORMER SKINHEAD: I can identify with him because I was there. If it wasn't for things that -- very fortunate things that happened to me along the way and help I got from other people, many of whom I had claimed to hate, I could have very easily ended up where Wade Page ended up on Sunday.

TODD: You could have done those killings?

MICHAELIS: Well, it's important to understand that Wade Page was living in this reality of terror that he had created. TODD: A similar reality Michaelis says that he created for himself, for seven years as a white supremacist skinhead. Remnants of that life inked on his left arm.

MICHAELIS: The ruins below here are north ruins and it says (INAUDIBLE) which is a contraction of racial holy war.

TODD: Like Page, Michaelis fronted a supremacist band. His was called Centurion. There wasn't a single episode that drove him into that life, Michaelis says. He says his parents were not racist but that there was alcoholism and verbal abuse in his family which made him want to lash out. By age 16 he was moving in skinhead circles in Milwaukee. He estimates he violently attacked people of other races or religions about once a week for four or five years. What was the worst thing you did?

MICHAELIS: I've beaten people and then left them for dead.

TODD: Michaelis believes that if Wade Michael Page was anything how like he was, Page was suffering in his final days.

MICHAELIS: His day-to-day life was nothing but terror. Everywhere he looked in the world around him -- going to work, at work, getting home from work. Everything threatened him. And when you are in that environment, there is no room for happiness. There's no room for joy.

TODD: Michaelis says he attempted suicide twice. But in what can only be described as a twist in life, a seed was planted in Arno Michaelis to change. It came in a place he wouldn't have figured, from someone he never could have imagined. He'd started going to McDonald's on paydays. He says he came upon an older, kindly, African-American woman working behind the counter who greeted him warmly as she took his order.

MICHAELIS: I was really kind of disconcerted. It was -- it was hard when black people were very kind to me when I was trying to hate them.

TODD: Once after getting a swastika tattooed on his middle finger, Michaelis went back into that McDonald's. He found himself trying to hide the swastika from that lady, but she saw it.

MICHAELIS: She looked me right in the eye and she said, I know you're a better person than that. That's not who you are. And I -- I just said, I can please have my big Mac? I got my food. And I went and ate it. I never went back to that McDonald's.

TODD: Never saw her again?

MICHAELIS: Never saw her again. But 20 years later I haven't forgotten that moment.

TODD: It led him to eventually move away from those groups and to start his own. An organization called Life after Hate, dedicated to helping people transition out of that existence. I asked Michaelis what he'd say if a supremacist was sitting across from him now, contemplating a similar, horrific act? MICHAELIS: I was challenge them to think about what happens after that and to think about someone in their life who they love.

TODD: Michaelis says his real slap in the face moment came after a friend of his was murdered in a street fight. He's convinced the temple shootings in Wisconsin were a slap in the face moment for at least one person in a hate group somewhere. He says he desperately wants to help them start to climb out of that hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Michaelis says his real slap in the face moment came when a friend of his was murdered in a street fight. He's convinced that Sunday's shootings were a slap in the face moment for someone in a hate group somewhere. He says he's desperate to help them. He wants them to go to his website. It's called lifeafterhate.org so they can start to climb out of that hole. Randi.

KAYE: Brian Todd, thank you very much.

Coming up at 10:00 Eastern, we turn our focus to white supremacy groups on our military bases. We'll talk with a former Defensive Department detectives who investigated neo-Nazis and skinheads infiltrating the military.

Whereabouts unknown, Syrian rebels say they are trying to help Syria's vice president flee the country, but the regime has said he would never defect. We'll have a live report for you.

And John Lennon's killer is seeking freedom again. I'll tell you when the music icon's convicted killer will go face to face with a parole board.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. I'm Randi Kaye. Thanks for starting your day with us.

Just where is one of Syrian President Bashar al Assad's right-hand men? There are conflicting reports this morning that Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa has deflected as the country continues to explode in civil war. A rebel spokesman says al-Sharaa fled Damascus more than a week ago, but the Syrian regime seems to contradict that.

Let's get the latest now from CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in Abu Dhabi this morning.

So Nic, the question is just where is the vice president? Who is saying what?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the government is firmly saying that these are all rumors that he hasn't defected. The spokesman of the foreign ministry posted on his Facebook page denials of this.

And we've also heard a statement from the government press agency saying that Farouk al-Sharaa a has been committed on working to help alleviate the crisis since the beginning. And that now the most recent thing they say is he sent his support -- or says his supports the U.N.'s choice of new envoy for Syria. So that seems to imply that he's still at his desk and still working. We're not seeing pictures of him.

And he had the Free Syrian Army telling us that he left Damascus a week ago. He's been trying to get across the border into Jordan. They've lost contact with their commanders on the ground so they don't know where he is. They're worried, they say, that some of his family members may have been captured by the regime and that may force him into surrender.

But they say quite clearly that he has defected. Of course this could just be -- just an escalation of the war on words, both sides here.

KAYE: And let me ask you about this because a state-run Syrian Arab news agency has actually removed al-Sharaa a's profile from its Web site. Is that significant?

ROBERTSON: I think it is. I mean I think as well the fact that we heard from the Syrian news agency today as well saying that the -- saying that there have been a reshuffle at the cabinet, that the health minister was gone, the justice minister was gone, the industries minister was gone, there's clearly trouble at the upper echelons of Bashar al-Assad's government. We had the defection of the Prime Minister just a couple weeks ago.

And the message that came across loud and clear there was, you can be a senior figure and you can get smuggled out of the country by the Free Syrian Army.

So, I think the fact that we have not seen him, the -- the Vice President, is a very big indication that something is not right. What is happening is unclear.

KAYE: Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in Abu Dhabi. Nic thank you very much.

Syrian rebels say they are trying to help Syria's Vice President flee the country but the regime insists that he would never defect. And we'll continue to follow this as well.

And here are some of the other stories making news this morning.

Paul Ryan taking his pitch for Medicare to the voters who probably matter the most, seniors; he will speak today at a Florida retirement community called The Villages, one of the largest such communities in the country.

Ryan will be joined today by his mom, a part-time Florida resident who happens to be a Medicare recipient.

John Lennon's killer is seeking freedom again. Fifty-seven-year-old Mark David Chapman is up for parole for the seventh time and could face the parole board as soon as Tuesday. His last quest for freedom was denied two years ago. Chapman's currently serving a sentence of 20 years to life for gunning down John Lennon in 1980.

A sad day for you Harry Potter fans out there. "The Hunger Games" trilogy has surpassed the J.K. Rowling series to be the best selling series ever on Amazon.com, that's including both paper prints and eBooks. Amazon also points out "The Hunger Games" is just a series of three books versus Harry Potter's seven.

In Arkansas, people say Chavis Carter shot himself while in the back of their squad car cuffed behind his back. And some are wondering how is that even physically possible? We're certainly wondering that. So police set out to prove it. You'll also hear what they say happened leading up to the shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Thirty-four minutes past the hour.

Jonesboro, Arkansas police say this man, 21-year-old Chavis Carter shot himself in the head while in a squad car handcuffed behind his back. Police just released a new dash cam recording of the officers explaining their version of the event shortly after the shooting.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: I patted him down. I don't know where he had it hidden. But we were talking with officers (ph) back to the car. We thought we heard a funny noise. We heard a pop. We go in. Smelled gun powder. He was leaning over.

QUESTION: Was he handcuffed or sitting --

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: He was handcuffed behind him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Some people remain skeptical about a person's physical ability to do what police say Chavis Carter did.

So Jonesboro Police released a video to prove how easy they say it actually is.

Apparently the same height and build as Carter. While handcuffed, you can clearly see this man re-enact shooting himself in the head as the video continues there.

CNN legal contributor, Paul Callan joins me now to talk about all of this. So Paul, good morning to you.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning Randi.

KAYE: We've talked about this case before. Missing from both dash cam recordings that police released is the moment that police say Chavis Carter shot himself. And that's because the squad cars were parked trunk to trunk and the dash cams weren't actually facing the backseat where Carter was.

But what are the police trying to do by releasing these videos do you think? And do the dash cam tapes even prove anything?

CALLAN: Well, I think they're obviously trying to push public opinion in favor of the Jonesboro Police Department. But frankly, I think it's an amateur hour operation here. Any law enforcement agency that's trying to objectively and fairly investigate an incident shouldn't be partially releasing pieces of evidence that they think exonerates their own police officers. They should be waiting until autopsy results are in, until GSR gunshot residue tests are in, if gunshot residue swabs were done on the other officers and on the suspect.

A lot of things should be done before you do a re-enactment. So I'm a little shocked that they would take this tact. People are going to have a hard time accepting any conclusion that they reach in the end --

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: Yes.

CALLAN: -- because they're prematurely releasing evidence.

KAYE: It is awfully strange. And the FBI is watching this whole case, so that makes it even more bizarre. But on the dash cam video, Paul, you can hear the officers talking about their plans to take Carter to the county jail, even when his aunt comes by the scene. You can hear the officer actually telling her she can get him from jail, maybe in the next day or so.

Do you think that helps the officer's case and maybe speaks to their intention a bit?

CALLAN: Well you know, I have to say overall, and I've looked at a lot of the releases so far, most of it would seem to exonerate the officers. I mean as bizarre as this fact pattern is with a man in handcuffs allegedly self-inflicting this wound, you have to say, what would be the motivation of these cops?

And frankly, you know, the tone of the audio, when you hear the cops talking to the suspects and everybody else, they're sort of speaking in a calm, measured way. It's not anger or high emotion -- the kind of thing that you might expect if they're about to kill a suspect who's handcuffed in the back of the police car.

So I think the overall tone and tenor would support the claims being made by the Jonesboro Police that this is a bizarre, maybe accident that happened, maybe an accidental discharge of the gun. I don't know what they're going to say, ultimately suicide by the suspect. Hard to say what they're ultimately going to claim.

But -- that's my preliminary take on the audio and video that I've seen.

KAYE: Yes, there are also some interviews of witnesses that police released more information. Now we don't know, of course, if these witnesses were hand-picked by police or how many others they might have spoken with. But listen to what one witness told a detective about where the officers were when she heard what she thought sounded like a gunshot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They put him in the backseat of the police car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then about 10 or 15 minutes after that we heard a loud pop. I'm like, what is going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You heard a pop?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounded like a gun going off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So where were the police officers when you heard this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were standing on the outside of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you heard the pop, the doors were open? On the police car?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The one he had in the back seat wasn't open.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were closed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That's pretty important stuff right there. What do you make of that? I mean, she puts the police officers outside the car when she heard that shot.

CALLAN: It really exonerates them in terms of having fired the fatal shot. I mean obviously if the doors to the squad car are closed, no evidence of damage to the window, nobody else inside except the suspect, so this has to be a shot from the interior of the vehicle. And she exonerates the police officers.

KAYE: Yes.

CALLAN: Now, she won't exonerate them from the big thing of they obviously botched a search of the suspect, if he was carrying a gun. And he somehow struggled and it went off, causing this injury. But she certainly would exonerate the police officers as murderers in this case.

KAYE: Yes.

CALLAN: And that's a really important piece of evidence.

KAYE: Well, we will continue to watch this case, Paul Callan, along with you a lot of folks have some really strong opinions about it.

Everybody is tweeting me this morning. You can continue to do that. You can find me on Twitter @randikayeCNN.

Paul Callan, thank you very much.

CALLAN: Thank you Randi. It's always nice being with you.

KAYE: You as well.

Most people know Cuba for its cigars. Bus as we find out from CNN's Patrick Oppmann, the food is something to rave about too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The think that people always ask me is where to eat in Cuba? And I always say Palodars, those are -- that means people's home, private restaurants the Cubans are able to have in their homes. So let's go into one of my favorites Cafe Laurante here in downtown Havana -- really one of the best Palodars that I go to.

Buenas. Como estas?

Hola. Como estas? Gracias.

We're in Cafe Laurante and before you go to a Palodar in Cuba and it looked like what it was, someone's home. Here you going to see they have a bar man here making mojitos. It's really set up like a restaurant. But it's not a government restaurant. It's actually someone's business.

And until recently, that's not something that was very common in Cuba. But laws have been changing, allowing people to have their own businesses. And this Palodar is famous for its seafood so I think that's what we're going to try today.

So they just brought me this really beautiful plate of lobster and shrimp and fish. And it looks great. I have to say, sitting out here on this terrace where you have an incredible view of Havana and there's really nice breeze. It's just a really relaxing place to be. I can't think of a better place to be right now. And this looks fantastic.

So I'm going to go ahead and dig in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Budget cuts are forcing school districts to scale back on teachers and staff. A new report from the White House this morning says that the country has lost 300,000 education jobs since 2009, that's resulted in larger class sizes and fewer school days.

President Obama says the trend has to be reversed if America is ever to compete.

For the last several weeks we've been looking at education and the state of our schools. Earlier this month the former head of the D.C. public school system Michelle Rhee joined us on this show. She argued that students in the U.S. aren't making the grade compared to students in some other countries.

Her solution? Merit pay and taking a better look at how our tax dollars are being spent in schools. Listen.

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MICHELLE RHEE, FORMER HEAD OF DC PUBLIC SCHOOLS: There are hundreds of thousands, millions of teachers in this country who are absolutely amazing. They do incredible things for children. And they should be recognized and rewarded and valued for their work.

And there are other teachers who are not making the grade. They're not producing the gains and student achievement that we need for our children. For those teachers to be paid the exact same amount as our effective teachers makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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KAYE: After that interview, a lot of you weighed in. Diane Ravitch even wrote an opinion piece about it on our blog. She is research professor of education at NYU, the former assistant secretary of education, to President George H.W. Bush and author of the "Death and Life of The Great American School System: How testing and choice are undermining education".

I spoke with her earlier and here's what she had to tell me.

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KAYE: Diane in an article that you wrote for cnn.com, you said, quote, "The only valid measure of academic performance in our schools is the federal test called National Assessment of Education Process. The NAEP test scores of American students are at their highest point in history, for black students, white students, Hispanic students and Asian students. So would it be safe to say that you think education in our country has never been better than it is right now?

DIANE RAVITCH, RESEARCH PROFESSOR, NYU: I think right now our kids are achieving at a higher rate than they've ever achieved and that education is under assault. It's not because of the teachers or the principals. It's because there is a massive movement under way to privatize our schools. This whole narrative about the failure of American schools is a phony narrative.

KAYE: Let's talk about the ACLU because it filed a lawsuit on behalf of nearly 1,000 students attending public schools in Highland Park, Michigan. You're probably aware of this. They say the school district is failing to teach students how to read.

I want to show you this letter written by an eighth grader. Try and read it to you. It says, quote, "You can make the school gooder by getting people that will do the job that is pay for, get a football tame for the kinds maybe a basketball tame get a other jam teacher for the school get a lot of toche."

All right, now I know the test scores in Reading among 8th grades has increased by a point and overall in the state of Michigan, but isn't this disappointing to you? What is your take on that?

RAVITCH: Well, you know, it said that one student can't read but that says nothing about American education. I mean you can always find one example. An anecdote is not a trend. There will always be some kids who are doing very poorly, for whatever reason. But an anecdote doesn't mean anything.

What you look at, which is why I said in the very beginning of my article, the only valid measure is the National Assessment of Educational Progress, which has been counting academic achievement since the early 1970s. On that measure, American students today have the highest test scores in History, in Reading and in Math -- white students, black students, Hispanic students and Asian students. I might also add that the graduation rate today is the highest it's ever been and the dropout rate is the lowest it's ever been.

KAYE: Let me just point out what you said there because you said that that's one student who can't read or write there, but this lawsuit filed by the ACLU is on behalf of 1,000 students, not just one student.

RAVITCH: Well, you know, I think it's terrible that that student and those students didn't get a good education. Wherever that happens, the state has an obligation of remedying it. What Highland Park, Michigan is doing instead of remedying that student's education is to privatize their schools. That district has been handed over by the state of Michigan to for-profit charter corporation, a corporation that will make a profit because the district has a $12 million deficit.

That corporation will now take $12 million in profits out of the district. Whether they'll do a better job, we can't say because they haven't started. What we do know is that all of their other schools in Michigan are very low performing.

KAYE: But when you talk about how we're doing better than ever, and then you look at this case filed on behalf of a thousand students, how do you make sense of that? How does that square with we're doing better than ever?

RAVITCH: The way you make sense of it is that's a district that has very high levels of poverty, that is very underfunded. And the state of Michigan has an obligation to step in and make sure that teachers are properly trained, that they have the resources they need, that they have the curriculum and the tools that they need to do a better job.

Instead, the state of Michigan is privatizing that district and giving it to a for-profit corporation.

KAYE: So, you're saying that this is because of poverty. What about the responsibility of the teachers?

RAVITCH: Well, of course teachers are responsible, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the teachers are bad. You know, without doing an evaluation, you have no way of knowing. You can't just automatically say the scores are low, you have bad teachers. There are all kinds of things that play into low test scores.

I might add, the ACLU didn't blame teachers. The ACLU blamed the state of Michigan and said they were suing the state of Michigan and many, many other actors and not just -- they didn't just say that the teachers were solely responsible for the situation in Highland Park, Michigan.

KAYE: You mentioned in your article that because our public schools educate 90 percent of the population, we should give public schools some credit for our nation's accomplishment as the greatest engine of technological innovations in the world. But recently the American Electronic Association said that our school system was failing to provide strong science and math education to students. Because of that, companies now outsourcing jobs to more qualified technology workers in other countries. How do you explain that? What do you say to that?

RAVITCH: I think they're outsourcing jobs because they're sending them to nations where the workers are cheaper. There are plenty of people here in this country --

KAYE: You're saying it has nothing to do with education?

RAVITCH: Absolutely not. There are plenty of unemployed people who have excellent education in Math and in Science and they can't find jobs because American workers want too much money. That's why these corporations are outsourcing to India and China because they can get engineers who are less well-trained, less well-educated but get them much, much cheaper inspect. This is about the cost of labor and the corporations not wanting to pay the cost of American workers.

KAYE: In many lines of work, the best performance -- best performers get better pay. I know how you feel about merit pay for teachers, but why shouldn't the same be true for teachers and award those who consistently inspire and enlighten our children?

RAVITCH: Teachers don't want merit pay because they understand that merit pay will force them to teach to bad tests. They don't want to compete with one another for test scores. Teachers understand, and this is -- I've talked to literally a couple hundred thousand teachers.

KAYE: You're saying they don't want more money?

RAVITCH: They want more money but they don't want merit pay. They want to be paid more for doing more but they don't want to compete based on test scores. Test scores are not a measure of who's a good teacher. It can be a measure of who's a very bad teacher who simply drills the kids in test prep. Teachers want to work as teams, they want to collaborate. They understand that if a child gets a high test score, it can be the result of cheating. It can be the result of drilling to the test, which are both bad, but basically what makes the schoolwork is teamwork and collaboration. Teachers want that kind of a culture of teamwork. They don't want to compete with one another for test scores and to be treated like donkeys where they're competing for a carrot.

KAYE: Obviously, this is a very -- it's a pretty heated debate. You know, there's a lot of folks on both sides of this. I want to share some of the comments that your article generated; a whole lot of comments, both good and bad.

Let me read you this one from Lucas. He says "I'm a teacher in a low income school. Teachers can and do make a profound difference and they can overcome the intimidating obstacles created by poverty. Some of my eighth graders attend school regularly but cannot read even on a first grade level. This is a scandal. Merit pay need not be done in a way that makes teachers compete within their school. Offering a bonus for a job well done is not a 'war on teachers'."

How do you respond to that?

RAVITCH: I respond to it that New York City tried giving merit pay to the whole school and that failed. Nashville offered a $15,000 bonus for higher test scores and that failed. Chicago tried another form of merit pay and that failed. It simply doesn't work.

Of course, poverty can be overcome. Of course, teachers make a difference. But you can look at any testing program, whether it's the SAT or the SAT or the international test or any state test, they all show that the high income kids are at the top and the low income kids are at the bottom because poverty makes a difference.

KAYE: All right. Diane Ravitch, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

RAVITCH: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: New video released in the case of a handcuffed man who was shot in a police car. Investigators hope to put to rest questions about whether or not it was self-inflicted. You'll get your chance to weigh in, in just moments.

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KAYE: Earlier we asked you what you think happened the night that Chavis Carter died. Arkansas police say the 21-year-old shot himself in the head after he was searched, handcuffed and put in the back of a police car. Carter's family and others suspect foul play.

Robin tweeted us asking, "Is there residue on his hands? End of story. If not, you know the answer." And the answer to that, by the way, Robin is that we don't know yet because forensics haven't come back yet. And Shadow Warrior says this, "I say the cops assassinated the punk. No cop is going to admit to be so incompetent as not to search a bad guy." In fact there were two searches, according to the chief, and the gun was missed both times.

A bizarre murder mystery at a California mansion; police say this boy's death was an accident. But his mother says she has proof it was not.

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