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CNN Saturday Morning News

California Gunman Kills Four; U.S. Government Spying on Americans; Mandela Fighting Lung Infection; Interview with Miami Heat Player LeBron James

Aired June 08, 2013 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. So great to have you here with us on this Saturday morning. I'm Pamela Brown.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Always a pleasure, I'm Victor Blackwell, 8 o'clock on the East Coast, 5:00 out West. And thanks for starting your day with us.

We are starting this morning on the West Coast in California. We're still waiting to learn the name of the man who went on a shooting rampage; happened yesterday in the oceanfront city of Santa Monica.

Authorities now say the suspect killed four people, including his father and brother, and wounded five others before police killed him. Police say the shooting spree started at a home near Santa Monica College and then spilled onto campus, and that was just 10 minutes from where President Obama was holding a fundraiser.

Though we don't know the shooter's name, police say he was a white male between 25 and 35 years old and he apparently wore black tactical gear and was armed with pistols and an AR-15 assault rifle or semi- assault rifle with extra clips.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has the latest from Santa Monica.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A deadly rampage rolling through the streets of Santa Monica: 11:52 am, the first 9-1-1 call, a man wearing all black clothing and tactical gear leaves this house; inside, two victims believed to be the shooter's father and brother.

JERRY CUNNINGHAM, NEIGHBOR: He was coming out of the house, the gate of the house, across the street. And then I noticed that that house was on fire, and I thought he'd been firing into the house.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The gunman then jumped into a car, forcing the driver with him. Minutes later, he opened fire on a Santa Monica city bus -- no deaths thanks to a quick-thinking bus driver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened right in front of me. I mean, I was in my car and a guy on the left side of the street jumped out of a car with a big black gun and started blasting rounds at all of our cars and the buildings and the bus. MARQUEZ (voice-over): Then just minutes after that the gunman shot up a building at an intersection in Santa Monica, then forced his driver to take him to Santa Monica College, where the killing spree continued.

BETH TOPPING, WITNESS I heard a couple of gunshots and someone came running into our office and told us that someone had a gun and to said to get out. And so I instinctively ran into the hallway. And when I got out there, I saw a gentleman dressed in all black.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The incident cut a mile-long deadly path through the heart of Santa Monica, from the house that was set on fire to the library at Santa Monica College, packed with students studying for finals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just looked like he was standing there posing for the cover of an ammo magazine or something, it was really bizarre, very calm, not running around, not yelling, just looking around to target very casually.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Less than 15 minutes after it started, he was over, four victims and the gunman dead --

CHIEF JACQUELINE SEABROOKS, SANTA MONICA POLICE: The officers came in and directly engaged the suspect and he was shot and killed on the scene.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): -- his body moved from the library and taken to a sidewalk where he was finally pronounced dead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now a couple of things to update you on. Police do say even though they're not releasing the name of the suspect, that they do know who it is and warrants may have been served at more than one location overnight; if not, they will be soon.

And unfortunately, there was a fifth person taken to the hospital last night; police last night said that she was in extremely critical condition. She also went through surgery and it looks -- there are reports at the moment that she may not have made it, so that death toll may go up very soon by one.

Back to you guys.

BROWN: All right, Miguel, thank you so much. Keep us updated.

Well, Brett Holzhauer saw blood smeared on walls and floors after the gunman opened fire. He is a student at Santa Monica College and joins me now by phone.

Brett, great to have you here with us. If you would, just set the scene for us.

Where were you when the shooting happened? BRETT HOLZHAUER, WITNESS: I was about 100 feet away inside the library; my friends and I were studying for finals. Yesterday was going to be my last day at Santa Monica College and I had one final left. And around 12:30 pm I was studying with my friends; I said, hey, guys, I'm going to go use the restroom real quick.

And I was using the restroom and I heard a scream, and I really wasn't sure what it was. I thought, you know, I didn't really think anything of it. And then as I was walking out I heard a bang; again, didn't think anything of it. And then a second later, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and I knew exactly what it was.

And I ran and grabbed my stuff, grabbed my classmates, threw them into a study room. I told them look, guys, like this is exactly what's happening. We all need to remain calm right now. We all need to call 9-1-1, and just absolutely be as silent as possible.

And I kind of just took over a leadership goal. I'm an L.A. County lifeguard, and I've been trained to deal with times of stress and anxiety. I've dealt with CPR, heart attack, so I just took a leadership role and really just tried to comfort my classmates, because they were in absolute hysterics.

BROWN: Yes, sounds like that crisis management training really helped you, Brett.

Did you -- were you actually able to get a good look at the gunman?

HOLZHAUER: No, the only sighting of that -- of the gunman I saw was when he was dead on Pearl Street.

BROWN: How quickly did police respond to the shooting?

HOLZHAUER: They were there within minutes. It was incredible how fast they got there. I mean, from the time that I heard the rapid bang, bang, bang in the library and to the time they got us out, they evacuated us; it was 35 minutes so I'm sure they were there within three minutes.

BROWN: I bet your heart was jumping out of your chest. I can't imagine what that must have been like.

I have to ask you, Brett, you mentioned that it was the last day for you. You had one final left.

Are you going back to Santa Monica College in the fall after all this?

HOLZHAUER: Well, I was actually -- I'm transferring to Arizona State in the fall as a journalism major. So, I mean I have no problem going back to the school; I'm not afraid of it.

It's just one of those things; it's just so out of the blue. I mean, I don't -- I'm not scared of the school. Things like this happen, so I still love my college and I'm proud to say I'm a student athlete there. I play water polo there and I'll be more than happy to go back. It's just such a tragic event. BROWN: All right. Brett Holzhauer, thank you so much for sharing your story.

HOLZHAUER: All right. Well, thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: Now to South Africa, where their most beloved figures is in the hospital this morning. Nelson Mandela was rushed to the hospital from his home overnight. We're hearing that his condition deteriorated when a troublesome lung infection reoccurred.

A presidential spokesperson tells CNN that the 94-year-old anti- apartheid icon and Nobel peace laureate is now breathing on his own; that's good news. His wife is there at his bedside. We'll take you live to South Africa ahead this hour for the latest on his condition.

BROWN: Cleveland kidnapping suspect Ariel Castro has been indicted on 329 charges. The former school bus driver is accused of holding Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight in his home for at least 10 years. The indictment describes years of brutal assaults, from taping one of the victims to a pole, to chaining her to a car with a vacuum cord tied around her neck.

One charge accuses the 52-year-old Castro of aggravated murder, for purposely causing the end of one pregnancy.

Here's a more detailed breakdown of the indictment: 139 counts of rape, 177 counts of kidnapping, seven counts of gross sexual imposition, three counts of felonious assault. Castro will be arraigned sometime next week.

BROWN: And now to Texas, where a pregnant actress is accused of mailing ricin-laced letters to President Obama and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Federal investigators say she tried to blame it all on her husband. CNN's national correspondent Susan Candiotti joins us now from New York.

So, Susan, what is the FBI saying about this woman?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela. Well, to hear authorities tell it, this was one troubled marriage. And if the charges are true, you have a wife who went to extreme lengths apparently to get back at her husband.

Shannon Richardson, that is her name, she is also an actress, stage name Shannon Rodgers or Shannon Guess. In court papers, the FBI charges her with, in effect, setting up her husband, accusing him -- or accusing her, rather, of writing and sending letters tainted with ricin to President Obama, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the mayor's director of a gun control group in Washington, Michael Glaze.

In court papers the FBI says Richardson planted evidence in and around her house -- for example she also looked up ricin on the computer to create a history, put a Tupperware container with ingredients inside that could be used made to make ricin and scattered castor beans in the trunk of her husband's car. She allegedly mailed the letters in Texas, then drove to Shreveport, Louisiana, and met with the FBI to accuse her husband of sending the ricin letters.

The letters said in part, quote, "You will have to kill me and my family before you get my guns. Anyone wants to come to my house will get shot in the face. The right to bear arms is my constitutional God- given right and I will exercise that right till the day I die."

Now the FBI interviewed her husband; he blamed his wife. So it was he was he said/she said. She allegedly failed a polygraph and then told the FBI her husband made her do it. Now she's in jail and, according to the FBI, she's pregnant. And on Thursday, the other day, authorities say that her husband filed for divorce.

Pamela?

BROWN: Susan, as we mentioned she is an actress; she lives in Texas.

Have you been able to gather any reaction from the people that she worked with?

CANDIOTTI: Well, I'll tell you, we found on Twitter, of all places, some tweets from the former executive producer of "The Walking Dead," where she allegedly played a role as an extra, and also from someone else who used to work on that show, now works for "The Vampire Diaries".

Anyway, the former executive producer of "The Walking Dead" tweeted this, quote, "Some actress from 'TWD'" -- "the Walking Dead" -- "sent ricin letters to the prez? Never heard of her. Anyone know what role she played?"

And he gets the response from a woman who was the E.P. of "The Vampire Diaries," and she says, "If she played an equivalent part to one she supposedly played on 'the Vampire Diaries,' she was third background from the right or something."

Ouch.

BROWN: Ouch; I would say that's pretty accurate.

And you mentioned, Susan, that she was in a troubled marriage; her husband filed for divorce. You have to wonder if this was her way of setting up her husband, but now she's facing some pretty serious charges, right?

CANDIOTTI: They're very serious charges. In fact, this is a federal complaint. It might go on to the stage of being an indictment, but if she is found guilty of these charges, she could face up to 10 years in prison.

BROWN: Wow.

All right, Susan Candiotti, thank you so much.

And we've got more just ahead this hour.

BLACKWELL: Packed hour. Here's what's coming up.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN (voice-over): Tropical Storm Andrea may have been downgraded, but it's still causing big problems on the East Coast. More than 100 flights canceled, roads flooded, and now the rain that began in Florida is expected to reach as far as Maine.

SARAH MURNAGHAN, TRANSPLANT HOPEFUL: Whoo! Whoo!

BROWN (voice-over): A 10-year-old girl in desperate need of a lung transplant had reason to cheer this week when a judge stepped in with a ruling that could save her life. The latest efforts to save Sarah and next week's meetings that could save thousands more.

LeBron James out for revenge as the NBA Finals goes to game two. Our Rachel Nichols asked him how he plans to win and whether the limelight has just gotten too bright.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes, that's no fun, just stuck there in a tiny car in a flood, no fun at all, and it's going to be a soggy day in the Northeast.

Andrea is moving on up the East Coast, bringing rain and the potential for more of that flash flooding. Warnings have been issued for Maryland all the way up to Maine and coastal areas, well they're especially at risk.

The storm is considered a post-tropical cyclone and the National Hurricane Center is reporting maximum sustained winds of just 45 miles per hour.

BROWN: Well, you know what that means.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BROWN: That means all kinds of problems for travelers. Airports are warning about delays and cancellations as Andrea moves up the coast. So anyone flying need to check with their airline to make sure their flight is on time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And best of luck to you if you are flying. Good chance your flight is going to be delayed especially if you're going to be in the northeast area. BLACKWELL: 12:40 flight to North Carolina, this guy.

Meteorologist Alexandra Steele is here to tell us now what's going on up there.

ALEXANDRA STEELE, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, actually in North Carolina, over five inches of rain yesterday, so had record rain up and down the Eastern Seaboard.

So here's some good news. You heard it's post-tropical Andrea, meaning it has lost its tropical characteristics, although plenty of tropical moisture still in place. The good news, it is speeding northeastward, moving at 35 miles per hour, center of circulation about 35 miles east of the eastern tip of Long Island.

So it is moving quickly. Maximum sustained winds of 45 miles per hour; predominantly though, those are off the coast with some of the heaviest wind and rain bands. But we do have a high wind advisory for Nantucket, so Nantucket, the Vineyard, some of the areas east, you could see and will see the highest winds today.

Observed rainfall, look at this swath, kind of just where we thought we'd see it, anywhere between three and five inches; LaGuardia, record rain; New York, Kennedy all had record rain between three and five inches; the Carolinas as well.

So that's where the rain was. Where is it going?

Well, for the most part, it's done in the Northeast right now, Boston, Hartford, New York, it has all pushed north and eastward, although farther south, a lot of tropical moisture still here.

Washington, the clouds and the showers will come in toward you. You can see in West Virginia, Southwestern Virginia and kind of Eastern North Carolina, still some rain around, but a lot of moisture in the East and with that much drier conditions, incredibly warm here in the Southwest but dry air coming in from the Northwest.

And where we see this clash of air masses, unfortunately, this is the bull's eye for some severe weather today.

Kansas, Nebraska, some isolated tornadoes, hail, some very strong winds, straight line winds maybe some of the biggest issues.

Omaha, Wichita, toward West Texas, Amarillo and Lubbock, that's where you need to keep an eye out as we see this clash of air masses as a potential for tornadoes, guys, again today in Nebraska and Kansas, so we're keeping an eye on that.

BLACKWELL: All right.

Alexandra Steele, thank you very much.

Two very, very sick children, they are taking a step closer to getting the new lungs they need to survive.

BROWN: We'll have the latest on the ongoing battle over the nation's transplant policies.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH MURNAGHAN, TRANSPLANT HOPEFUL: "Twinkle, twinkle little star..."

BROWN (voice-over): We had planned to speak right now Janet Murnaghan; she's the mom of the 10-year-old little girl, Pennsylvania girl, who desperately needs a lung transplant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes but we just spoke to her and she just told us that Sarah struggled badly overnight and is doing, quote, "horribly."

And so, of course, Janet is not doing well either.

Janet's latest Facebook post tells the story, and here it is: at 3:20 this morning she wrote, "I'm up because Sarah's numbers, heart and oxygen, don't look good. Stressing but believing our good news will come soon in the form of new lungs."

And just a few minutes ago, "Sarah is still doing bad, worse, actually."

BROWN: Our thoughts and prayers are with Sarah --

BLACKWELL: Of course.

BROWN: -- and her family. And the news comes as the group that sets national rules for lung transplants is planning to hold an emergency meeting Monday to review and possibly change its policy on child organ recipients.

The meeting was called after a federal judge granted Sarah and another very sick child priority access to transplants is planning to hold an emergency meeting Monday to review and possibly change its policy on child organ recipients. The meeting was called after a federal judge this week granted Sarah and another very sick child priority access to transplants from adult donors.

CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll has that part of the story.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Javier Acosta's family is hoping he has a better chance at surviving. The 11-year old has cystic fibrosis and needs a lung transplant.

So, too, does 10-year-old Sarah Murnaghan.

SARAH MURNAGHAN: "Twinkle, twinkle little star..."

CARROLL (voice-over): She suffers from the same disease; both are at the same hospital in Philadelphia, each family praying a lung donor will come in time now, thanks to a federal judge's decision.

JANET MURNAGHAN, SARAH'S MOTHER: We sat down and explained the system a little bit and in a way that she could understand. She had a lot of hope last night when I explained that to her.

CARROLL (voice-over): Earlier this week, Judge Michael Baylson sent an order to (ph) the Department of Health and Human Services to temporarily suspend policy in Sarah and Javier's case, which had prevented all children under the age of 12 from receiving priority in the adult pool of patients waiting for transplants.

Lung donations from children are rare, but children can use a modified lung from an adult. And since there are more lung donations from adults, the Murnaghans say what should happen now is clear.

JANET MURNAGHAN: The system needs to be changed. It needs to be fair for everyone, for adults and for children. I don't want Sarah in front of anyone who is sicker. This should be the sickest person first.

CARROLL (voice-over): Javier's family knows the pain of waiting all too well. In 2009 his brother, who also had cystic fibrosis, died while waiting for a transplant.

The Murnaghans initiated the lawsuit against HHS and Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, urging her to change the so-called under-12 rule.

Sebelius was questioned about it during a budget hearing.

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: The worst of all worlds in my mind is to have some individual pick and choose who lives and who dies. I think you want a process where it's guided by medical science and medical experts.

CARROLL (voice-over): The HHS has declined to comment on the ongoing legal matter. On Monday the United Network for Organ Sharing -- that's the organization that manages the list and works with HHS -- will hold an emergency meeting to review its lung allocation policy.

The lawyer representing both families says the organization should do more than just review it.

STEPHEN HARVEY, ATTORNEY: I think the prudent thing to do would be to suspend the policy pending further review.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And suspending the policy is not entirely out of the question. In a copy of the letter from the United Network for Organ Sharing, written to Secretary Sebelius earlier this week, if says if their committee finds the available data, suggests a change is warranted, the committee would be able to approve it.

Pamela? Victor?

BROWN: Thank you, Jason. And as Sarah waits for those new lungs, we're hearing this morning from her mother that she struggled overnight and is actually doing worse. So again our thoughts and prayers are with her and her family.

BLACKWELL: And there are lots of people across the country and really around the world who have followed her story after we began to tell it here, who are sending their best to Sarah and her family there.

And of course that includes everyone here at CNN.

At 10 o'clock this morning we're going to talk to Congressman Tom Price from Georgia about the judge's ruling and why he has suggested that if Sarah dies the nation's Health secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, will be responsible. We want to hear that conversation, of course.

BROWN: And coming up, a community in shock after a gunman opens fire, killing his father, brother and two others. A live report from Santa Monica ahead.

BLACKWELL: Plus what legal rights do Americans have over their e-mail and their cell phone records when it comes to government snooping? That conversation is ahead.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BROWN: Bottom of the hour now, welcome back, everyone. Thank you so much for being here with us on this Saturday morning. I'm Pamela Brown.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell; 8:30 here on the East Coast, now a respectable hour at least out on the West Coast, 5:30, people starting to wake up. Let's start with five stories we're watching this morning.

Number one now Cleveland, the kidnapping suspect, Ariel Castro, has been indicted on 329 charges, meaning he could get more than 3,000 years behind bars if he's convicted of all 329.

Now the former school bus driver is accused of holding Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight in his home for roughly 10 years. The grand jury indictment describes years of brutal assaults and accuses the 52-year-old Castro of aggravated murder for purposely causing the end of one pregnancy. In total Castro now faces the following: 139 counts of rape; 177 counts of kidnapping; seven counts of gross sexual imposition; three counts of felonious assault; and a single count of possession of criminal tools.

BROWN: And the number two, a presidential spokesperson says everything is being done to ensure that Nelson Mandela gets better. South Africa's first black president was rushed to the hospital overnight. His condition deteriorated when a persistent lung infection flared up again. We'll take you live to South Africa just ahead for the latest on how he's doing. BLACKWELL: Third story a Texas actress is accused of sending ricin- laced letters to President Obama and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. The FBI arrested Shannon Richardson and says she admitted sending the letters but she claimed her husband forced her to do it. Now her husband says she lied to the FBI. He's now filed for divorce. Richardson, who is pregnant, faces 10 years in prison if she's convicted.

BROWN: And at number four we have new information on a deadly building collapse in Philadelphia. City hall sources tell CNN that a crane operator working to demolish a building had marijuana and pain medication in his blood. He could face manslaughter charges. During the demolition a four-story wall fell on a Salvation Army Thrift store; six people died.

And five now and this is the big story this morning, we're still waiting to learn the name of the gunman who opened fire at Santa Monica College yesterday. By the time police had him in their sights he'd already killed four people including his father and his brother and wounded five more. He died in a shoot-out with police.

Authorities say the gunman was a white male between 25 and 30 years old. He was armed with pistols and an AR-15 rifle with extra clips. Police say the shooting spree started at a home near Santa Monica College. The gunman then reportedly carjacked the vehicle and headed to campus, this all ended outside the library where police shot the suspect. And it all went down just 10 minutes -- just a short drive from where President Obama was holding a fundraiser.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Santa Monica this morning. Miguel, what have we learned about the gunman? Because we learned a few hours ago that the two people inside that home that we saw burning yesterday were his brother and his father. What else do we know about him?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We know that investigators do know his name. We believe that they served warrants -- either they served them overnight or they will be serving them shortly and throughout the day, trying to learn more about who this guy is and figure out if there is any more concern that they need to have because of him.

I also want to update you on one of the victims. We may have a fifth victim in all of this. Last night police saying that the woman who underwent surgery at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, she also was very, very critical as they described it and there is some reporting this morning here in Los Angeles that she has expired unfortunately. So that victim count would go up to five.

But it is not clear who this person was aiming for or what set it off or what the motivation was. One witness we spoke to saw him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH TOPPING, WITNESS: He looked very official to me. I thought maybe he was SWAT. He was in paramilitary gear and he was sort of walking casually down the hallway and had a rifle across his chest. I was waiting for some instruction from him as to where to go or what to do and he didn't say anything. He was just walking towards me and so I ran with a colleague down the hall and when we got to the outside door, he was still walking in our direction and I paused to look back at him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now police say that they are looking at nine different crime scenes here because of this one incident or series of incidents. There are six or seven different locations across Santa Monica where this person opened up and fired on people, buildings, buses and the like and they are just getting through all of that today. We hope for another press conference around 1:00 p.m. Eastern today out here in Santa Monica that will have more information. The big news at the moment though is it sounds like that death toll unfortunately may go up by one. Back to you guys.

BLACKWELL: Really large crime scene there, we see the tape behind you, more than 15 hours after this started. Miguel Marquez in Santa Monica for us -- thank you.

BROWN: With each shooting the possibility of ending these tragedies seems more remote.

BLACKWELL: And we're left trying to learn from each shooting to prevent of course the next one. And for more we're joined by Harold Copus a former FBI special agent. I know it's early but we've been talking just before we came back from break about this and some of the things that stand out to me, to Pamela, what stands out about this shooting, if anything?

HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I guess it was -- you would think it was planned. You'd think that what this guy was doing, he had it all mapped up and then you have that crazy shooting of the two ladies where he tries hijacking a car. It just seems astounding.

BLACKWELL: Yes that to me when you walk out of your house with the weapons in this black gear and go to the home where your father and brother are, allegedly he did this -- because we're still waiting for all the information and then you just wait for a car to come by to take it to the campus, it makes it seem as if the second half wasn't planned. Does that seem that way to you?

COPUS: I agree. It appears that the -- that what he was going was his family and then after he's done that, my gosh, what am I going to do next and that was just a random act. And unfortunately it led to something far more serious.

BROWN: And Harold we've seen mass shootings in practically every part of the country, especially recently we've seen it in Newtown, Connecticut, Denver, Colorado, Santa Monica, California, is there a particular part of the country that's more vulnerable to these types of shootings or not?

COPUS: Well you'd like to think so but unfortunately it's not. It can be anywhere, as we've seen that. So the only common thread appears to be someone who has an issue and the type and choice of weapons they're using.

BROWN: Do you think though that -- it seems like and tell me if I'm wrong that with each shooting it might sort of galvanize someone else, another shooter to go and act perhaps. I mean why are we seeing all of these shootings in such a short span of time?

COPUS: Well, the simple thing I believe is it is copycat. I've seen it one time, I have a beef, I'm going to do the same thing.

BLACKWELL: We're still waiting to find out if there was a beef and what that beef would have been especially with his father and his brother, but I want to read you something that Joe Orcut said, and we spoke with him this morning he works at the University. "The gunman was very calm, not running around, looking around for targets. He looked like he was standing there posing for the cover of an ammo magazine or something. It was very bizarre."

And we saw something similar at the shooting at the theater in Aurora. Is this something -- some type of profile that each of these guys that they're going after, this kind of heroic look as they're going to kill these people?

COPUS: I think what you'll find and that may be an easy way of saying it and another way of saying it is this person is going to a zone that none of us or most everyone else would never enter and so I'm not thinking rational. I'm about as cool as I can be. Look what I've done. I'm ready to face death.

BROWN: You think in this case in Santa Monica, perhaps the shooter was emboldened he allegedly killed his brother and dad and --

COPUS: What else do I have to lose?

BROWN: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BROWN: All right Harold Copus thank you.

BLACKWELL: Well reports say the NSA has been gathering phone and computer data from its citizens.

BROWN: But now many are wondering about the legality of government data mining.

Up next we're going to talk to our legal expert Paul Callan about your privacy rights.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When it comes to telephone calls, nobody is listening to your telephone calls. That's not what this program's about. As was indicated --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That's the President's response to critics of the NSA's monitoring program. It was revealed this week that the U.S. government is secretly spying on millions of Americans by collecting vast amounts of phone records and e-mails. Also access to the servers of some of the top U.S. technology firms like Microsoft, Google and Facebook, among others. And it's been happening for years, but the big question, is it legal?

For that we bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan. Paul we've been hearing over and over again from politicians, Senator Dianne Feinstein and others, saying that this is a legal program but does the government have the legal right to secretly collect phone data from ordinary law-abiding U.S. citizens?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's not an easy question, Pamela, because there are complex rules and they differ from state to state but on a federal level they do, because the system has something in place called the FISA Court. It's a special secret court that was permitted -- it was actually set up in the 1970s and as part of the Patriot Act.

The government was given wide powers to gather data and to see if that data provides links to terrorists and I think what's happening now is, we're kind of surprised at how sophisticated the feds have gone about this. They've got a system in place apparently that will show who calls whom on the telephone, domestically and in foreign places and they also have the ability to see who is looking at certain Web sites and gathering information from those Web sites and then on the basis of that raw information, they go to a federal judge and say we want a search warrant now to go into a specific person's account.

So it's very Orwellian in the sense that Big Brother is watching everything now and I think it's disturbing to a lot of people that our privacy has been compromised like this. But of course on the other hand, if you talk to a lot of Americans, ordinary people and I'm not talking about people in the press and the media, who are all uptight about this. I talked to a lot of people here in New York who say "Hey, if it's going to stop them from you know detonating a nuke in Times Square, be my guest. You can look at what I'm looking at on the Internet. I don't care about it."

So I think there's a real dichotomy here that Americans are looking at, giving up privacy rights for safety.

BROWN: Yes it brings up that protection versus privacy debate. And on that note, Paul, what safeguards do Americans have if any that their privacy rights are being abused?

CALLAN: Well, I think the first major problem that we have is we don't know what's going on. This is -- these revelations have been shocking to most experts in the field that there's been such a sophisticated ongoing program of what they call data mining of virtually everything on the Internet being so closely monitored by federal authorities.

And I think first we need a congressional investigation to find out what's going on, and then we have to see if we need new legislation to make sure the judges are looking at this and that privacy rights are protected.

BROWN: So Paul, where is the line drawn between the government overreach and national security? Where do you draw that line?

CALLAN: I could answer that question 20 years ago and say you know something? Unless -- and I want to talk about a concept that lawyers and judges have always had in this country, it's called individualized suspicion. They have to suspect that you are a criminal and they have to start gathering evidence against you and then they go to a federal judge and they get a warrant to get more information -- individualized suspicion.

But we now live in a world where the government is saying we can't operate under that premise. We have to be able to monitor anybody who might have a connection to terrorism, anyone who might have a link to al Qaeda. They want to investigate and gather data on a broader basis because they say the terrorists are so sophisticated, we can't afford to make a mistake.

And there's one critical piece of information that we don't know at this point. How many terrorist attacks has the government stopped that we don't know about? Have there been serious attacks on major American cities that have been foiled by this privacy, you know, violation -- massive privacy violation that's been going on. We need to have that information to be able to measure how much of our privacy should really be protected.

BROWN: That is the big question and would that justify the use of this program. Paul Callan, thank you so much.

CALLAN: Nice being with you.

BROWN: And we're following new news this morning on Nelson Mandela. He was rushed to the hospital overnight. We're going to have an update on his condition live from South Africa, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Welcome back. Ten minutes before the top of the hour.

And former South African president Nelson Mandela, he is back in the hospital. He's 94 years old, civil rights icon, he was rushed to the hospital overnight. CNN's Robyn Curnow is monitoring the situation for us. She's in Johannesburg in South Africa. Robyn, I know they're not saying a lot. But what do we know about Mr. Mandela and his condition?

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, you're right about that, we don't get a lot of information, very limited information coming from the government. What we do know is that at 1:30 a.m. South African time this morning, Nelson Mandela's condition deteriorated seriously enough for his doctors who live with him to take him to hospital.

They say that he's again suffering from that recurring lung infection which is essentially pneumonia and just remember his home is like an intensive care unit so the fact that they felt that his condition was so bad he had to go to an actual hospital is indicative of the seriousness of this.

That said we have heard in the last hour or so from the presidential spokesperson that he is breathing on his own which, of course, is good news.

BLACKWELL: Who is there with him? We see in this video from April that he's surrounded by family members, maybe some close friends but who is with him today?

CURNOW: Well today we understand his wife Graca Machel is by his bed. Again, also probably some close family members but this is a high care unit in this hospital. He's going to be very, very closely monitored. His doctors are not going to want a lot of people coming to visit or coming in and out. They're going to be very nervous of infections, of any other complications.

So I think there're going to be very few people with him, most crucially is his wife because she is obviously a soothe, a balm to him and, you know, those close to him feel that, you know, if he knows that she is there, that will help in his recovery.

BLACKWELL: And we have several times over the past few months over the last year reported on Mr. Mandela going into the hospital. How many times has he been in recently?

CURNOW: I was trying to count before we came on air. But from what I understand and if my calculations are correct it's been four times in the last six months that he's been in hospital for lung infection. He spent Christmas and Easter in hospital, both were quite long stays, 18 days and then ten days, so he has very much been on the decline this year.

Many people close to him say that first hospitalization in December really stuck him back, really hit him hard and he's never really gotten on top of his health in the last six months. And so many people are keeping a very close eye on him. The fact that he's back again, of real concern, but again we know that the doctors are paying such close attention to him, that he's receiving the best medical care. And I think that, you know, that is some, you know, soothing balm to other people as well, not just his wife and his family.

BLACKWELL: Certainly Mr. Mandela turns 95 next month on the 18th I think it is, yes, the 18th of July.

CURNOW: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: Robyn Curnow thank you so much.

CURNOW: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: So we're going to change gears here, NBA finals full gear now, with the Heat finding a way to bounce back from Thursday's game one loss against the Spurs. Will they be able to do it? That's the question. An interview with the one and only LeBron James, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: All right, let's do it.

BROWN: Yes. Let's talk some sports, sure.

BLACKWELL: NBA finals -- did you catch Thursday's game? Did you watch it?

BROWN: I did not, did you?

BLACKWELL: Yes, I did. And just seconds on the clock, Tony Parker sank this game-ending circus shot to put his team up against the defending champs.

BROWN: But the Miami Heat, well, they've been here before. CNN's Rachel Nichols sat down with LeBron James -- James rather -- and asked him how he expects to keep bouncing back from game one playoff losses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, MIAMI HEAT: One thing about our team and me we get better as the series goes on and we figure out ways we can exploit our competition. Do better the next game and you know, guys kind of live for that moment. We hate being down 0-1. We don't like being down 0-1, but we've been able to come back and come back even stronger in all those next games.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have always been the guy the entire rest of the team is keying on, the opponents keying on. I remember watching you in your senior year of high school. It has been that way your whole career. So after thousands and thousands and thousands of these opportunities and then you get to game one of the finals it's that way again.

Do you ever get the feeling -- hey worry about someone else. Do you just want to play one of these games where the whole defense isn't built around stopping you?

JAMES: I mean it is what it is. I put myself in a position to have that attention and I think it's great that I'm able to draw attention away from my teammates to kind of put them in a position where they could be successful. But you know, you wish you could go out there and you're not the key guy that everyone looks at, but that's what I'm in and you know, I have to figure out ways I can be great even with that going on.

NICHOLS: Because when you played the Spurs in 2007 in those finals the entire game plan was about stopping LeBron. In Game one we saw -- a lot of the game plan seemed to be just stop LeBron.

JAMES: Yes, and I'd seen that. And I'd seen a lot of that. They loaded the box. They put a lot of people in the paint and dared a lot of our shooters to make shots. That's how we got here. A lot of teams have put a lot of emphasize on stopping me from getting the pain or not allow me to do what I do and my team always come up for me. And that's why we're here in the finals. And I know they'll come up for me again.

NICHOLS: Now, winning the series would certainly have an effect on LeBron's legacy. There's a much more prominent spot, of course, in the history books for multiple time champions.

Of course, no one knows that better than one of the players on the other side, the Spurs' Tim Duncan. Duncan already has four very shiny NBA championship rings and now at 37 years old he told me that he realizes this is likely his last shot for another one. He said that is giving him a greater sense of urgency and that no doubt he intends to battle LeBron and the Heat every inch of the way these next few weeks.

Pamela, Victor?

BROWN: All right.

BLACKWELL: All right Rachel. Thank you.

All right. Thanks for starting your morning with us.

BROWN: More just ahead on "CNN SATURDAY MORNING" starting right now.