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State of the Race with Kasie Hunt
Hundreds More People Leaving Gaza Trough Rafah Crossing; Chris Christie Speaks to "State of the Race"; Christie: Voters will Reject Trump Closer to General Election; DeSantis: Conviction to be "Fatal in a General Election"; U.S. Congressman was in Israel when Hamas Attacked; Republican Senators Blast Tuberville over Armed Forces Freeze. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired November 02, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KASIE HUNT, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Political pressure on the President Joe Biden heckled at a private fundraiser by a protester demanding a ceasefire.
We'll show you the moment that pushed him to call for humanitarian pause. Plus, I'll speak with 2024 Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie
about how he would handle the conflict.
And does he think Donald Trump tolerated anti-Semitism. Then later this hour, House Democrat Dan Goldman, who was in Israel during the October 7th
attacks joins me live as the House prepares to vote on military aid for Israel. Good day, I'm Kasie Hunt to our viewers watching in the United
States and around the world.
It is 11 am here in Washington, Thursday, November 2, 6 days until the next Republican debate, just 368 days until the Presidential election. This is
today's "State of the Race". A second day of evacuations is underway from besieged Gaza into Egypt. Hundreds more foreign nationals and dozens more
injured Palestinians slowly progressing through the Rafah border crossing.
At least 400 foreign nationals are expected to leave today could take a few weeks to get everyone out. By then more than 7000 foreign nationals are
expected to leave. Israel's relentless air and ground campaign continues, the IDF saying ground troops have reached the gates of Gaza City.
A spokesman for the Prime Minister, spokesperson for the Prime Minister says Israel is resolute in wiping out Hamas and preventing any repeat of
the October 7th massacre that killed 1400 people. Melissa Bell has all the latest developments for us from Cairo, Egypt. Melissa, what's the latest?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kasie, what we're hearing is now 6 American citizens who have made it to safety through the Rafah crossing and
here into Egypt, we expect that of those many hundreds that are on the list that was published overnight of those foreign and dual nationals who are
allowed to get out today.
There are 400 names so expect many more Americans be making their way through that gate. But it is a fairly chaotic process you can imagine, not
only because of the communications issues, but just the sheer chaos that is on the other side of the Rafah crossing.
We do understand, though, that there's 7000 foreign and dual nationals will be making their way out sooner or later over the course of the coming days,
who we are hearing with those who've made it out already, Kasie, here pretty harrowing tales of what's been going on inside, the lack of
sanitation, the lack of food, the lack of water, the constant bombardment, by the IDF.
And I think the more we get these stories in his testimony, and who are we talking about essentially aid workers who found themselves trapped inside
Gaza, or Palestinian Americans or foreigners who were visiting family back in Gaza and found themselves on the wrong side of the border on the 7th of
October.
We're going to be getting more and more of these testimonies about exactly what's happening inside. And this even as the calls as you mentioned ago,
maybe to go for the humanitarian pause for growing louder, deaf, more -- , by the day, we've been hearing from UNICEF only today calling again for
that much needed humanitarian pause saying look, it is 400 Palestinian children.
They are being either wounded or killed every single day of this conflict and suggesting that those two days of airstrikes on the Jabalia refugee
camp could constitute war crimes given their disproportionate nature and, of course, the number of civilians that appear to have been killed.
We don't still have a definitive death toll on that, Kasie, but it continues to rise, the idea of how many lives might have been not many of
them, of course, children. That chorus of indignation growing louder every day as we start to get more and more details from those coming out of
exactly what's going on inside.
Again, not just the aerial and barbarians and Israel's campaign through town Hamas inside both its ground operation and its aerial campaign, but
also just the living conditions that ordinary Palestinians inside the Gaza Strip are having to endure, Kasie.
HUNT: All right, Melissa Bell, thank you for that update in Cairo. Let's discuss this with today's panel. "Washington Post" Columnist, Josh Rogin;
Cedric Leighton, the CNN Military Analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and CNN Political Analyst Jackie Kucinich, Washington Bureau Chief
for "The Boston Globe". I thank you all for being here.
And Melissa provided us with the kind of the on the ground context with this has of course, come into the U.S. political debate and has put
incredible pressure on President Joe Biden.
[11:05:00]
I want to show everyone a little bit of the moment at from last night's part of why this was so remarkable is that this was a closed door
fundraiser that attendees had to pay to be part of. And these events are typically places where the President or a Presidential candidate, depending
on the situation, can expect a friendly welcome.
Those people are there to contribute to the campaign to hear from them. This is what the President heard from somebody who bought a ticket to be in
the room last night, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to call for a ceasefire right now -- .
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So the President did respond to her there. And that's where he called for a humanitarian pause. Josh Rogan, what are your takeaways from this
moment?
JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST OF THE WASHINGTON POST: Right. Well, we know that President Biden and his officials have been privately urging for these
types of measures, a less aggressive invasion pauses on mass attacks and humanitarian corridors. But this is the first time that sort of popped up
into public in the President's mouth.
And it just shows that he understands that the popularity of his policy is not what it was four weeks ago. And as the images continue to pile up of
the tragedy in Gaza, now he's facing more and more pushback, especially from people inside of his own party. And he's a politician, he's vulnerable
to that.
But essentially, he's got the same position, which is that he wants more aid into Gaza. And the fact that only 6 Americans in my view have come out,
out of 604 weeks, and that we're still working on this humanitarian pause idea which they've been working on very diligently behind the scenes.
Fact that none of its work shows really how little leverage the United States has in this situation and how little successfully we've really had
an influencing Israeli policy decisions, much less Egyptian or Hamas related. So I think this is just the popping up the tip of the iceberg of
what is really frustrated effort inside the U.S. government to have a policy that lets Israel do what they want. But also acknowledges the fact
that the suffering of the Palestinians is getting out of hand.
HUNT: Do you think this is going to bubbled to the surface -- Antony Blinken is headed to Israel for meetings Friday as presumably to deliver
the message you're talking about?
ROGIN: Right now, this is the beginning of a very, very long effort. I don't think anyone thinks that this is not going to play out over months,
right, at least, if not longer. And so what that means is that they have to set a precedent by having a humanitarian corridor that all five parties can
agree to Israel, Hamas, Egypt, Qatar, and the United States.
And if they're able to set that there are examples of this, they do it in Ukraine, they've done it in Syria for 12 years, and everybody has to get
something out of it. Hamas has to get some of their people out, maybe not the fighters, but maybe some other people, Egypt has to get security
assurances that Israel is not going to bomb whoever comes in or out.
But the people won't be there forever. And so this is a very complicated thing. But it can be done. And what Blinken is there to do is to set the
basic rules of how this thing could work, because it's not going to be the first. I mean, it's not going to be the last and they're going to have more
bombing and more humanitarian needs for as long as we can tell.
HUNT: OK, the succinct understanding of exactly all of this is why we bring you here, Josh, thank you for that very helpful. Jackie Kucinich, let me
ask you, and I want to get to dig into the military stuff in just a second with you, Colonel. But I also want to show you and our audience, Jackie, we
heard for the first time in a formal press conference from the new Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.
And he talked about that a little bit about this in a way that will help illuminate some of these politics further, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Israel doesn't need a ceasefire, needs its allies to cease with the politics and deliver support now. That's what we're
doing. As Republicans plan to do that, we're going to do it in short order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So Jackie, there's a lot there.
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
HUNT: Because the reality is House Republicans are actually planning to put a bill on the floor that just funds Israel and couples it with a political
pay for basically a bunch of money from the IRS that you know, mux this up normally Congress doesn't pass emergency aid for basically anything with
things attached to it like that. What do you make of what the Speaker had to say there?
KUCINICH: It's so cynical. It's just a very cynical ploy. If you say that you want to get this aid through, he's trying to jam the Democrats, it's
owning the libs by you know, attaching this IRS provision, which actually makes it more expensive, which if you're a fiscal hawk conservative, like
the Speaker is, in theory, wouldn't want that.
But you know, and it also he's seeking to jam the Senate, who also the majority wants to fund this, wants to send aid to Israel, and also wants to
fund Ukraine, which is not included in this bill. And yet, they want to spin it so they're voting against this and can you know, run campaign ads.
[11:10:00]
And it we're at a point in the politics, you think that you know, perhaps they would go past this but we're not quite there yet maybe you know when
this fails and they go back to the drawing board.
HUNT: Yes.
ROGIN: They're politicizing Israeli aid, which is really bad, you know, and it's actually backfiring. Because if you're AIPAC or any of these pro-
Israel groups, you want Israeli to be bipartisan, you don't want it to attach to letting tax cheats off the hook. That's not a good thing.
OK. And as we go down this road that the Israeli will probably get through, it's probably just a show for the right wingers to say we fought for
something and then we lost valiantly to Mitch McConnell. But when it comes to Ukrainian aid, it's a different story.
KUCINICH: It is a really big political problem for Republicans, because their base and a lot of their voters don't want more aid going to Ukraine
for a litany of reasons that is very much real.
ROGIN: Mostly because they've lied to them and told them that there's no oversight.
KUCINICH: That's up to you.
ROGIN: And that the aid is going to fund Nazi do Zelenskyy or some other nonsense right out there.
KUCINICH: Right.
ROGIN: So they've conditioned their people to be anti-Ukraine, and then use that as a bludgeon against the Biden people. But meanwhile, Ukrainians are
fighting and dying, and they need the money they're about to run out.
HUNT: So jumping into effect.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: You know, general solution at the Head of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has said very
specifically that if aid does not come from the West, we're going to get to Ukraine is going to find itself in a war of attrition with the Russians.
And Ukrainians -- aid absolute disadvantage when it comes to that you look at the population ratios, you know, Russia has about four times as many
people as Ukraine does, has about the same number of in terms of ratios, same ratio in terms of armed forces, and weapons systems.
And they are also perfecting techniques that go after even the F 16. So the S 400 missile defense system, which was not effectively employed by the
Russians, is now getting ready to be in a place where it can actually be in place to go after F 16s as they come into the Ukrainian inventory.
HUNT: Right.
LEIGHTON: So this is going to be a major issue. And if we lose Ukraine, if the Russians getting a foothold there, that's going to be a significant
strategic problem for the United States, far more than almost anything else out there.
HUNT: Right. Well, in the fact I mean, all those things that you just talked about, right, that is conversation that we are currently not having,
because of what's gone on elsewhere. And briefly, Colonel, can you just bring us up to speed with the latest that we know in terms of the military
campaign that Israel is waging against Gaza right now, they say they're at the doors of Gaza City.
LEIGHTON: Right. So they're at the doors of Gaza City, they have said, Kasie, that they are moving the Hamas defensive line back, they will
basically reach that defensive line and forcing the fighters back. What that means, though, in real life is this, the Hamas fighters are going to
abandon that defensive line they are they played soldier up until this point, and now they're going to play guerrilla.
And what that means is they're going to go into the urban setting that they're in. They are going to use the rubble to their advantage, they're
going to use the burned out and bombed out buildings, they're going to put out IEDs, they're going to create a real mess for the Israelis, if the
Israelis aren't careful.
And so one thing the Israelis could do is encircled Gaza and kind of keep them there. Failing that, if they go in directly and move in, it's going to
be the potential is there, let's say for a bloodbath. So it's going to be difficult for both sides.
And the Israelis are working against the clock, because they've got the exigencies of ceasefire calls, and you know other things that we've
discussed. But they also have the problem with, you know, how far do I go and when am I going to be told by external powers to stop?
ROGIN: And what happens the day after?
LEIGHTON: Exactly and day after is going to be critical? That's absolutely right.
HUNT: For sure. I mean, basically, the bottom line is you and I all of us are going to be having this conversation for weeks, potentially months to
come. All right Josh Rogan and Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you both for being here today. I really appreciate it, still to come, my interview with
2024 presidential candidate Chris Christie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:15:00]
HUNT: Welcome back to the "State of the Race". The Republican presidential field is narrowing with the next debate just 6 days away. Four candidates
have qualified for the stage so far, including Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and Donald Trump's campaign says he will not be there. I
spoke with Christie this morning about his campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUNT: Joining me now is Former New Jersey Governor and current Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie. He is in Keene, New Hampshire. As we
get into the heart of political campaign season with the fall leaves behind you. Governor thanks so much for being here.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kasie, thanks for having me in the fall leaves are beautiful up here in New Hampshire.
HUNT: For sure, let's start with more serious topics abroad though before we move to the campaign trail. President Biden called for a pause in Gaza
last night after he was heckled at a fundraiser. Antony Blinken, the Secretary of State going to Israel possibly to push for more restraint from
Israel.
Do you think President Biden is striking the right balance between supporting Israel on the one hand and advocating for innocent civilians in
Gaza on the other?
CHRISTIE: Look, I think that what we need to be advocating for completely is defensive Israel. Now, you know, the folks who are calling for a pause
and a ceasefire now are the same people who killed 1400 innocent Israeli citizens. In fact is -- if I were President, I'd be advocating three things
to Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government.
One, do whatever you need to do to protect Israel's territorial integrity and the safety and security of its citizens. Two, do what you need to do to
absolutely diminish Hamas's ability to be able to make an attack like this again. Go after their military capability.
But three, keep in mind that everything you do has to be geared towards when this is over, continuing to do what Israel had been doing very
effectively before this, which is to continue to isolate Iran. And the way you do that is to make -- continue to make agreements with other Arab
nations.
And so they have to find the balance. I think if these things are going to be advocated for by the administration, they have to be advocated for
quietly behind the scenes to give advice to keep things in the context of those three objectives, protect Israel citizens of their territorial
integrity, make sure that we diminish Hamas's capability to do this again, and to keep on track with isolating Iran who is the banker of terrorism in
the Middle East.
HUNT: So back here at home, Governor, we have seen just an absolute explosion of anti-Semitism in the wake of this war. But when Donald Trump
was President that ugliness it appeared in places like Charlottesville, where the former president said there were some very fine people on both
sides.
One of those sides was chanting Jews will not replace us. There were people at the U.S. Capitol riot who were wearing camp Auschwitz, sweatshirts. The
January 6 Committee, of course, heard testimony that Trump had said to get rid of the metal detectors because that crowd those people were not, quote
"There to hurt me".
What role has Donald Trump played in the rise of anti-Semitism in America?
[11:20:00]
CHRISTIE: Well, I think it's broader than that, Kasie. I think there's been a contribution by Donald Trump to intolerance generally, which applies to
everyone, including folks in the Jewish community, and that intolerance and that tone of vindictiveness and vengeance and retribution, is interpreted
by lots of different people in lots of different ways.
And that's why you shouldn't be going down that road. Because you don't know what disturbed or prejudiced people in our country will hear that and
hear that as a dog whistle to do something different.
Look, the other people who are responsible for this are the presidents and the boards of trustees of campuses across this country. This has been going
on campuses across the United States for quite some time, a decade or more, it's been growing. And I've seen it, because I've gone to those campuses
and spoken, both when I was governor and after I left the governorship. And those presidents of those universities and those boards of trustees need to
stop hiring anti-Semitic faculty. They have to stop giving them tenure.
And when they do speak out in an anti-Semitic way, there has to be ramifications for it. And there hasn't been. We're sending our 18 year old
children to these places to be taught, to be educated, and one of the things they're being educated in is anti-Semitism.
It's not right, and it's going to have long term awful ramifications for our country. And in the near term, it's scaring the hell out of Jewish
students that you know, just recently now, Cornell has canceled classes because of someone who was arrested for making anti-Semitic violent
threats.
These are not things that we can be putting up with. And there are a lot of people in this country who have responsibility for that.
HUNT: OK, just to focus in on Trump for a second though, just because you're running against him in this presidential primary.
CHRISTIE: That I am.
HUNT: I mean, this is somebody that there were very fine people among a crowd that was chanting Jews will not replace us. If he were elected
president again, how do you think that would make Jews in America feel, considering that history?
CHRISTIE: Well, look, I mean, I renounced that at the time, when he said those things in Charlottesville, and said that that was wrong and that it
was unacceptable. And I feel exactly the same way today.
And I think that there's a really mixed record when it comes to Donald Trump in this regard. But his language of intolerance is unacceptable for
all Americans, including Jewish Americans.
And I think everyone should be concerned about that level of -- when he says I will be your retribution, everybody hears that differently, Kasie.
And that's why that language just shouldn't be used, certainly shouldn't be used by a presidential candidate, and never should be used by a President
of the United States.
HUNT: So I'm glad you put it that way. Because I also wanted to ask, I mean, these threats against Jews are so violent, it is, as you say, also
part of a broader trend in that regard. There is more violent rhetoric now in our politics than there has been, and, you know, I saw that you had said
that your daughter was concerned about your safety because you've been so critical of Donald Trump.
I mean, have you experienced credible threats as you've been running against him in this primary?
CHRISTIE: Nothing that I would consider to be a credible threat that made me very nervous. But, you know, the fact is that there are folks out there
who say some awful things to you when you're criticizing Donald Trump, and whether or not they become violent or not, is something that unfortunately
you don't know until it happens.
But what I will say to you is it's not going to stop me from saying the things that need to be said. He's unfit for the presidency, Kasie. And if
you just look at some of the things that have happened with his legal issues over the last number of weeks, he's unfit to be our nominee, and
he's unfit to be the president of the United States.
HUNT: So one of your rivals, Ron DeSantis, who, of course, was considered, you know, the -- the primary -- the frontrunner in the race for second
place for quite some time, he said this morning that the indictments would be fatal in a general election. That sounds a little new to my ears. I'm
wondering your reaction.
CHRISTIE: Well, then I wonder why he raised his hand at the first debate and said that he would support him even if he was convicted, let alone
indictments, if he was a convicted felon, he said he would support him. Now, Governor DeSantis had to cheat off everybody's paper before he made
that answer on the debate stage and was the last to make a decision on that one.
But now maybe he's changing his mind. I don't know. We don't know which Ron DeSantis to believe. We don't know which Nikki Haley to believe. She raised
her hand and said she would support him even if he's a convicted felon. She said after January 6 that we should give him a break. Although previously
she had said history will treat him harshly.
Look, these folks don't know who they are. And they certainly know who they are as to Donald Trump. They don't know whether they're running against him
or running for a position on his ticket or in his cabinet.
I know who I am, and I know what I want this country to be. And I don't want it -- we -- us to be a country who is represented in the presidency by
someone who is a criminal.
[11:25:00]
And that is what he is going to be come this April or May, now that Mark Meadows, his former chief of staff, and one of the founders of the Freedom
Caucus, has decided to testify against him, and testify that Donald Trump committed crimes right before his eyes. That is going to be devastating
testimony, and it's going to lead to his conviction.
And Republican primary voters need to wake up and understand that if we nominate Donald Trump, we are going to lose the presidency again.
HUNT: Governor, points all taken and you have been the person in this field that has been out front running against Donald Trump. Now that said, your
polling in Iowa shows you at 4 percent, South Carolina under 2 percent. Why aren't you getting more traction?
CHRISTIE: Look, I think these things take time, Kasie, and when you're the person out front, when you're at the point of the spear, making the case
against the person who's been the nominee the last two times, there are going to be a lot of people who get offended by that.
But in the end, as we get -- the weather gets colder up here in New Hampshire and out in Iowa, and people start to focus on beating Joe Biden,
which is what our goal should be, then I think they're going to reject Donald Trump. And you didn't mention that I'm, you know, pretty
consistently running in second or close third in New Hampshire.
We intend to do very well up here. And I think that's going to change the entire race. And so I'm at 4 percent in Iowa. I'm tied with Vivek
Ramaswamy. And right behind Tim Scott, and I haven't spent one second in Iowa. So there's a couple of different ways to look at that Iowa number,
Kasie.
I have literally not been to the state in five years. And I am running tied with Vivek, who has been there constantly. And within shouting distance,
just two points behind Tim Scott. So, you know, there's a couple of different ways to look at all those numbers.
I think we're getting traction, especially in New Hampshire. But I'll tell you, we're going to do surprisingly well in Iowa, given that we haven't
spent one minute there.
HUNT: Fair enough, very quickly, sir, before I let you go, is there any chance that you would bow out of this race before New Hampshire voters go
to the polls?
CHRISTIE: No.
HUNT: All right, fair enough. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, thank you very much for your time, sir.
I really appreciate it.
CHRISTIE: Kasie, thanks for having me, always good to be with you.
HUNT: All right, up next, what does our panel think of Christie's comments on the rest of what's going on in the 2024 race? We'll talk to them up
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
HUNT: Reaction to that interview with Chris Christie and the rest of the 24 race. Let's bring in our panel, Jackie Kucinich is back. Also joining us is
Kevin Madden, Republican Strategist, former Adviser to Mitt Romney and Kate Bedingfield, CNN Political Commentator and former Biden White House
Communications Director.
So we had a couple laughs during that, as we were sitting and watching, the Chris Christie interview, he's always kind of an entertaining figure in
this race. But Kevin, I mean, the reality is, he hasn't, you know, gotten the kind of traction. I mean, it's kind of the same old; it's the same
story all over again, right?
Any Republican who has gone out and gone against Donald Trump can't find traction in the Republican base. He has been willing to go out there and
criticize Donald Trump, which is more than a lot of people are going to do. But as you were noting, like he also, you know, did a lot of work for
Donald Trump before January 6th.
KEVIN MADDEN, U.S. REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, I think he's a flawed candidate because he has a flawed message, right. And that, you
know, everything that he says about Donald Trump, you have to remember that he watched Donald Trump come down the escalator in 2016. And he endorsed
that exact Donald Trump is the same message that Donald Trump is talking about now.
And some of the intolerance that comes out of his messaging, Chris Christie endorsed. And you know, two months before January 6, Chris Christie was
preparing then President Donald Trump for his debate prep against Joe Biden. So he is just a flawed messenger on this.
And then I think the other thing is, he has a flawed candidacy in the sense that you can't just go all in on one state. It's a very diverse party. It's
a delegate hunt of 1236 delegates. And you can't just, you know, plant your flag in New Hampshire and think that all of a sudden, you're going to be
able to slingshot until all of these other states, so he's limited as a candidate, structurally, as well as on his message.
HUNT: Yes. Kate Bedingfield, I want to play the moment that I asked Christie to respond to Ron DeSantis spoke this morning with the other
network about President Trump former President Trump's various criminal challenges and was singing a distinctly different tune than the one he
started his campaign. Singing, it's really an entirely different -- Handel. Take a look at what DeSantis said this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): So I signed a pledge, Willie and that pledge is what it is. Now do I think somebody under those circumstances could get
elected president? The answer is no. That will not happen. I think that Republican voters will understand that as we get closer to voting, but it
is, it would be fatal in a general election. I don't think the party should nominate in that situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Kate Bedingfield, does the White House agree with Ron DeSantis's assessment there? And also what's going on with him?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I mean, you're talking about a flawed messenger. I mean, this is somebody who as Chris
Christie pointed out in your interview had to sort of look around. And wait to see what everyone else did for his raised his hand in a debate to say
that being convicted of a crime would be a problem for Donald Trump.
So, you know, I'm not sure that like Ron DeSantis, as a vocal carrier of this torch really makes a ton of sense or is going to land with people.
Does the White House agree that a Trump conviction would be fatal? I would have to imagine they don't.
Because I think that we've seen all of the data up until this point, both in terms of polling and support for Trump. But also have people have
continued to turn out to vote for Donald Trump, even after some of the things that that he did.
No, I frankly, I don't think they think, I think that they believe that they have a dogfight ahead of them. I think they do have a dogfight ahead
of them. You know, I think the irony here is that for all of Trump's trashing of Biden's basement campaign in 2020, if Donald Trump can be in it
as a Democrat, I hate to say this. If Donald Trump can be a discipline version himself, if Donald Trump in effect can run a basement campaign?
[11:35:00]
MADDEN: If Donald Trump could not be Donald Trump.
BEDINGFIELD: He's got he's, you know, he's got a lane. So, so no, I guess the short answer is I don't think that the White House would agree with
that. But I also think seeing Ron DeSantis sort of tried to throw his arms around the idea that like Donald Trump's illegal behavior is problematic.
It does not pass the authenticity test for -- it's a little bit too little too late.
HUNT: Yes. I mean, it does feel like if he'd come out of the gate, you know, right after when he announced in the summer, maybe he could have
gotten somewhere with it.
KUCINICH: Well, and he's not alone, right. Nikki Haley was doing a lot of the same things where they were, they were trying to walk the line between
not alienating Trump supporters, and trying not to criticize him by doing that. But now they've realized that oh, my gosh, we're running against this
guy.
He's 30 points ahead of us. 20 points on the good polls, and time is running short. So they're trying to insert criticisms here and there. And I
think a lot of voters have already turned their ears off in these early states and aren't looking for a Trump alternative because they have him.
MADDEN: Yes, so one of the biggest mistakes that you can make in a campaign is thinking you have time. I mean, you have to set the message frame from
the very beginning and be very disciplined about how you build that up for the audiences as they start to tune in. So yes, it's just, it's I think
it's a huge missed opportunity.
HUNT: All right, so speaking of building messaging frames, we're going to take a second, -- about a lot of serious news lately. So I'm just going to
indulge for a second in the non-serious story of the campaign trail this week, which is the height of Ron DeSantis's shoes, which Nikki Haley was
asked about by Charlamagne Tha God last night. So let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, HOST: Are you wearing higher heels than Ron DeSantis next week at the debate, so you can look taller than him on the stage?
NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know. We'll have to, we'll have to figure that out. I can tell you, I've always talked about
my high heels. I've never, you know, hid that from anybody. I've always said don't wear him if he can't run on them. So we'll see if he can run on
them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So I will acknowledge I could not run in high heels so -- Nikki Haley for that. But I mean, Kate Bedingfield, it does kind of defy, I don't think
we produce the pictures of the heel boots. And that's probably on us. You can find them on, you know, just Google it. You'll see. He claims they're
off the -- cases. Do we believe it?
BEDINGFIELD: We don't, no, we don't. I am sorry. We watched him walk. We've seen the tape. We've seen the slomo, we've watched people on the platform
formerly known as Twitter breakdown. We don't believe that no. But the thing that's interesting, it is funny and everybody loves a stick burn, so
well done Nikki Haley in that moment.
But the thing that it actually goes to, I think for people is this question of authenticity inauthenticity. You know, it also goes a little bit to the
idea of, you know, alpha male masculinity, which we know is a real preoccupation for the Republican base.
But in all seriousness, it is an effective attack in the sense that it's the kind of thing people remember, it's silly, it feels trivial, but it's
the kind of thing that sticks with people and it goes to this question.
HUNT: Here's the boots you see.
BEDINGFIELD: It goes to this question.
HUNT: Thank you guys, excellent work in the control room.
BEDINGFIELD: Look, you know, it kind of looks like, you know, the feet in the Wizard of Oz with the like, I mean --
HUNT: I will say, I haven't heard of Luke cases that do have heels, like bad on them. I would have trouble running in those two. Jackie Kucinich, I
mean, the authenticity question really is what this -- goes to, right.
KUCINICH: It really does. And, and, and also, I mean, it just shows how non-nimble that campaign still is. You would think, at this juncture, if
you really were a candidate that can think on their feet --
BEDINGFIELD: Yes --
MADDEN: Yes --
KUCINICH: Sorry, sorry. You missed opportunity. But at this point, you should be able to parry, you should be able to somehow turn this into your
favor, and they haven't, they've gotten defensive, which has been his, his problem. This entire campaign of kind of coming off a little prickly and
defensive throughout and it shows.
MADDEN: Yes, I agree the case like relatability (ph) and likability here. When he's gotten asked about it, it's been cringe total cringe watching him
answer the questions about it. And so when Nikki Haley, when you look at the contrast and this is why she's doing much better than him, she's more
ascending in the polls, while he's tending to trend down.
Is there she gets a question like that, she seemed very likable and relatable and asking, she didn't take too much a heart of a dig against Ron
DeSantis. And instead, she sort of used it to reinforce some of her most positive attributes.
HUNT: Right.
MADDEN: That's why she's winning right now. And on the way up, and he's on the way down.
HUNT: Yes, I mean, I will say I am reminded to of, you know, what happened in 2016, where, you know, one candidate after the other tried to take on
Trump who just is kind of Teflon around this kind of thing and sort of the contrast between the way he presents and the way a candidate struggling to
answer questions like this presents, makes it a lot harder to run against him.
All right, coming up next here, the House is going to vote today on an aid package that includes funding for Israel, but not for Ukraine. I'm going to
speak with a member of congress who was in Israel on the day of the Hamas attack.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
HUNT: Welcome back. The House is expected to vote on a $14 billion funding package for Israel later today. But something that used to be very
straightforward aid for a close ally is looking much more difficult. The House Republican bill doesn't include funding for Ukraine. That's something
that White House and Senators from both parties want.
And there's also conservative priorities added in. Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman was in Israel with family on October 7 during the Hamas terror
attacks. And he joins me now. Congressman, it's always great to see you. Thanks for being here.
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): Thanks for having me, Kasie.
HUNT: So let's start with you were in Israel on October 7, obviously, just a horrific day in history, truly for Israel, for Jewish people around the
world. You have seen very quickly, public opinion start to evolve in the wake of the bombing campaign from the IDF in response against Hamas.
And I'm just interested in your sentiments. I'd like to understand how you feel about that day, how Jewish people feel about that day and the things
that perhaps you want to encourage people to remember as this continues to unfold.
GOLDMAN: Well, thank you for asking that question, because it's a very important one that seems not to be asked very much anymore. It was an
incredibly traumatic experience for my family as rockets were coming in our direction and we had to shelter in a stairwell.
We're very lucky that the United States has provided a missile defense system of like the Iron Dome, which may have very well saved my life. My
family is still dealing with the trauma from that day. We're almost four weeks later. And that's nothing compared to the trauma that the -- and all
of the people of Israel are feeling, having seen the absolute brutal horrific attack on Israeli simply for being Jews.
[11:45:00]
240 hostages were taken and are still being kept in Gaza without any attention from the International Red Cross as is required by international
law. We cannot forget what happened on October 7th that was initiated solely by Hamas, whose singular objective is to eliminate Jews and the
State of Israel.
And that is what started all of this. This is a war against Hamas. It is not a war against the Palestinian citizens, who would be much better off if
Hamas were eliminated as well. Our only path toward a peaceful two state solution is to eliminate Hamas. And that is what Israel is trying to do.
And that is what the United States supports.
HUNT: So speaking of United States support, we are expecting a vote today on a package to send billions of dollars to Israel in emergency aid. The
new House Speaker has coupled that with a provision related to the IRS saying that he wants to use that to offset the cost of what's going on with
the Israel money.
Can I ask you where you stand on this package? I know at least one of your colleagues has said that this is a political trap, and he's not going to
fall for it. He's going to vote for it. Anyway, what's your view of it? What do you plan to do?
GOLDMAN: Well, I think it's important to document a couple things. First of all, you will find no one in the House of Representatives who is more
supportive of Israel than me. Second, the "Offset" doesn't actually offset anything. It actually increases the deficit beyond what it is right now.
And that's why this is a pure political ploy, where the Republicans are trying to divide the House of Representatives at a time when the United
States needs to be unified in our support behind Israel, by conditioning aid to Israel. For the first time in history, the Republicans are setting a
terrible precedent that cannot be supported.
And I will therefore be voting no on this bill, because I will not allow my Republican colleagues to play politics. This is personal for me. It's no
political game. Israel needs our full support. And I will not engage in this political theater with them when we need to be unified behind Israel.
I look forward to the Senate passing a clean bill to support Israel. And I look forward to voting on that when it comes back over.
HUNT: Congressman, have you heard any rumblings or personal discussions from conservative pro-Israel groups, such as APAC about their frustration
with the speaker and his move here?
GOLDMAN: Yes, I think privately APAC is upset because APAC realizes that this is a bad long term precedent. It is bad to condition aid to Israel on
anything, including domestic spending; it has never been done before. And it will make it harder and harder to support Israel going down the line.
And those of us who care about Israel's long term survival and security are very concerned that once you open this dam, then the water will just flood
through it. And all of Israel aid will then have to be conditioned. And if it's IRS now, it could be social security next. It could be food stamps, it
could be whatever the games, and the Republicans want to play.
Israel cannot be a political game; we must be unified in our support. And that is why I think even APAC recognizes that this is not good for the long
term future, even though Israel, of course, needs the aid immediately. And we support that, we want the aid immediately.
And that's why we're looking forward to the Senate swiftly passing the president's supplemental request, which also will include Ukraine aid. And
very importantly, humanitarian aid, both to Israel and to Gaza and to Ukraine, we must be supporting the innocent civilians around the world who
are collateral consequences and casualties of these awful wars.
HUNT: So, Congressman, speaking of those who are casualties of the war, obviously, there have been -- there's been a devastating human toll in
Gaza. Thousands of children killed. One of your colleagues wrote on Twitter, that what has gone on here amounts to ethnic cleansing on the part
of the Israelis.
Now I know you voted to table a resolution against your colleague, Rashida to leave yesterday, these comments about ethnic cleansing came from
Congresswoman Cori Bush. What do you have to say to Congresswoman Bush?
GOLDMAN: Well, that's just incredibly misinformed. And it's disappointing to hear because there is no such thing as ethnic cleansing going on. Israel
is fighting in its own self defense against a terrorist organization Hamas.
[11:50:00]
Hamas uses innocent civilians as human shields by putting their military installations command centers weapons and their leaders within the civilian
community. Israel must abide by the laws of armed conflict, which means that they must do what they can to protect the innocent civilians. But
there is no intention on Israel's part to target any Palestinian civilians.
Contrary to what Hamas did on October 7, when they specifically went after innocent civilians, tortured them, burn them, beheaded them, rape them and
killed them. That is what ethnic cleansing is not what Israel is doing.
HUNT: Do you think, would you say that Congresswoman Bush's remarks were anti-Semitic.
GOLDMAN: I don't know whether they're anti-Semitic or not. I think people look at this from a misguided lens when you just talk simply about the
oppressor versus the oppressed. There is an ongoing conflict in the West Bank that needs to be resolved. But that is entirely separate from what is
going on in Gaza.
Hamas has controlled Gaza for 15 or 16 years entirely. Israel has not been in Gaza at all. And Hamas has taken the billions of dollars that they
received in order to build a government to build an economy and they've used it for their terror tunnels to pursue their single objective of
killing Jews and eliminating Israel.
That is what this is about. It's not about the Palestinians. It's not about an ongoing peace process or conflict. It is about a terrorist group trying
to eradicate Israel.
HUNT: Congressman, can I ask you, how does it feel inside the Democratic caucus right now, with the progressive wing of the party, obviously, being
feeling very emotional about what is going on? As well as of course, the vast majority of members of Jewish members of Congress are Democrats and
are also going to be in the room, including yourself other staunch supporters of Israel?
GOLDMAN: Well, look, I think one of the things that we have been very intentional about doing is continuing to have conversations. And I
certainly am continuing to have conversations, because I think we need to make sure that everyone understands the historical context here.
Jews were killed by the millions in the Holocaust had been booted out and kicked out of almost every country around the world had no place to go. And
so a Jewish state was created where Jews had lived for millennia. This is the only Jewish state; this is the only place that is always going to be a
safe haven for Jews around the world. And Israel has a right to exist and it must exist. And the idea of a two state peaceful solution is supported
by all of us.
But we need good faith partners on the other side in order for Israel to have peace and security and to have a two state solution. And when you have
in 2000 at the Camp David Accords, the Palestinian authority declined an offer that gave them more than 90 percent of what they want.
It's hard to see who the good faith partner would be. And so we need to keep working on that. And I'm optimistic that, frankly, this war, if there
is a silver lining, it's that if we can eliminate Hamas, we can then start rebuilding Gaza with a viable government that was interested in a peaceful
two state solution.
HUNT: All right, Congressman, Dan Goldman, thank you very much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I hope you come back.
GOLDMAN: Thank you, Kasie. HUNT: Welcome back. The House is expected to vote on a $14 billion funding package for Israel later today. But something
that used to be very straightforward, aid for a close ally is looking much more difficult. The House Republican bill doesn't include funding for
Ukraine. That's something that White House and Senators from both parties want.
And there's also conservative priorities added in. Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman was in Israel with family on October 7 during the Hamas terror
attacks. And he joins me now. Congressman, it's always great to see you. Thanks for being here.
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): Thanks for having me, Kasie.
HUNT: So let's start with you were in Israel on October 7, obviously, just a horrific day in history, truly for Israel, for Jewish people around the
world. You have seen very quickly public opinion start to evolve in the wake of the bombing campaign from the IDF in response against Hamas.
And I'm just interested in your sentiments. I'd like to understand how you feel about that day, how Jewish people feel about that day, and the things
that perhaps you want to encourage people to remember as this continues to unfold.
GOLDMAN: Well, thank you for asking that question, because it's a very important, one that seems not to be asked very much anymore. It was an
incredibly traumatic experience for my family as rockets were coming in our direction, and we had to shelter in a stairwell.
We're very lucky that the United States has provided a missile defense system like the Iron Dome, which may have very well saved my life. My
family is still dealing with the trauma from that day. We're almost four weeks later. And that's nothing compared to the trauma that the -- and all
of the people of Israel are feeling, having seen the absolute brutal horrific attack on Israelis simply for being Jews.
[11:45:00]
240 hostages were taken and are still being kept in Gaza without any attention from the International Red Cross as is required by international
law. We cannot forget what happened on October 7th that was initiated solely by Hamas, whose singular objective is to eliminate Jews and the
State of Israel.
And that is what started all of this. This is a war against Hamas. It is not a war against the Palestinian citizens, who would be much better off if
Hamas were eliminated as well. Our only path toward a peaceful two-state solution is to eliminate Hamas. And that is what Israel is trying to do.
And that is what the United States supports.
HUNT: So speaking of United States support, we are expecting a vote today on a package to send billions of dollars to Israel in emergency aid. The
new House Speaker has coupled that with a provision related to the IRS saying that he wants to use that to offset the cost of what's going on with
the Israel money.
Can I ask you where you stand on this package? I know at least one of your colleagues has said that this is a political trap, and he's not going to
fall for it, he's not going to vote for it. Anyway, what's your view of it? What do you plan to do?
GOLDMAN: Well, I think it's important to document a couple things. First of all, you will find no one in the House of Representatives who is more
supportive of Israel than me. Second, the offset doesn't actually offset anything. It actually increases the deficit beyond what it is right now.
And that's why this is a pure political ploy, where the Republicans are trying to divide the House of Representatives at a time when the United
States needs to be unified in our support behind Israel, by conditioning aid to Israel. For the first time in history, the Republicans are setting a
terrible precedent that cannot be supported.
And I will therefore be voting no on this bill, because I will not allow my Republican colleagues to play politics. This is personal for me. It's no
political game. Israel needs our full support. And I will not engage in this political theater with them when we need to be unified behind Israel.
I look forward to the Senate passing a clean bill to support Israel. And I look forward to voting on that when it comes back over.
HUNT: Congressman, have you heard any rumblings or personal discussions from conservative pro-Israel groups, such as APAC about their frustration
with the speaker and his move here?
GOLDMAN: Yes, I think privately APAC is upset because APAC realizes that this is a bad long term precedent. It is bad to condition aid to Israel on
anything, including domestic spending; it has never been done before. And it will make it harder and harder to support Israel going down the line.
And those of us who care about Israel's long term survival and security are very concerned that once you open this dam, then the water will just flood
through it. And all of Israel's aid will then have to be conditioned. And if it's IRS now, it could be Social Security next. It could be food stamps,
it could be whatever the games the Republicans want to play.
Israel cannot be a political game; we must be unified in our support. And that is why I think even APAC recognizes that this is not good for the long
term future, even though Israel, of course, needs the aid immediately. And we support that, we want the aid immediately.
And that's why we're looking forward to the Senate swiftly passing the president's supplemental request, which also will include Ukraine aid. And
very importantly, humanitarian aid, both to Israel and to Gaza and to Ukraine, we must be supporting the innocent civilians around the world who
are collateral consequences and casualties of these awful wars.
HUNT: So, Congressman, speaking of those who are casualties of the war, obviously, there have been -- there's been a devastating human toll in
Gaza. Thousands of children killed. One of your colleagues wrote on Twitter, that what has gone on here amounts to ethnic cleansing on the part
of the Israelis.
Now I know you voted to table a resolution against your colleague, Rashida, to leave yesterday. These comments about ethnic cleansing came from
Congresswoman Cori Bush. What do you have to say to Congresswoman Bush?
GOLDMAN: Well, that's just incredibly misinformed. And it's disappointing to hear because there is no such thing as ethnic cleansing going on. Israel
is fighting in its own self-defense against a terrorist organization Hamas.
[11:50:00]
Hamas uses innocent civilians as human shields by putting their military installations command centers weapons and their leaders within the civilian
community. Israel must abide by the laws of armed conflict, which means that they must do what they can to protect the innocent civilians. But
there is no intention on Israel's part to target any Palestinian civilians.
Contrary to what Hamas did on October 7, when they specifically went after innocent civilians, tortured them, burn them, beheaded them, raped them,
and killed them. That is what ethnic cleansing is, not what Israel is doing.
HUNT: Do you think -- would you say that Congresswoman Bush's remarks were anti-Semitic?
GOLDMAN: I don't know whether they're anti-Semitic or not. I think people look at this from a misguided lens when you just talk simply about the
oppressor versus the oppressed. There is an ongoing conflict in the West Bank that needs to be resolved. But that is entirely separate from what is
going on in Gaza.
Hamas has controlled Gaza for 15 or 16 years entirely. Israel has not been in Gaza at all. And Hamas has taken the billions of dollars that they
received in order to build a government, to build an economy, and they've used it for their terror tunnels to pursue their single objective of
killing Jews and eliminating Israel.
That is what this is about. It's not about the Palestinians. It's not about an ongoing peace process or conflict. It is about a terrorist group trying
to eradicate Israel.
HUNT: Congressman, can I ask you, how does it feel inside the Democratic caucus right now, with the progressive wing of the party, obviously, being
-- feeling very emotional about what is going on? As well as, of course, the vast majority of members of Jewish members of Congress are Democrats
and are also going to be in the room, including yourself, other staunch supporters of Israel?
GOLDMAN: Well, look, I think one of the things that we have been very intentional about doing is continuing to have conversations. And I
certainly am continuing to have conversations, because I think we need to make sure that everyone understands the historical context here.
Jews were killed by the millions in the Holocaust, had been booted out and kicked out of almost every country around the world, had no place to go.
And so a Jewish state was created where Jews had lived for millennia. This is the only Jewish state; this is the only place that is always going to be
a safe haven for Jews around the world. And Israel has a right to exist and it must exist. And the idea of a two-state peaceful solution is supported
by all of us.
But we need good faith partners on the other side in order for Israel to have peace and security and to have a two-state solution. And when you have
in 2000 at the Camp David Accords, the Palestinian Authority declined an offer that gave them more than 90 percent of what they want, it's hard to
see who the good faith partner would be.
And so we need to keep working on that. And I'm optimistic that, frankly, this war, if there is a silver lining, it's that if we can eliminate Hamas,
we can then start rebuilding Gaza with a viable government that was interested in a peaceful two-state solution.
HUNT: All right, Congressman, Dan Goldman, thank you very much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I hope you come back.
GOLDMAN: Thank you, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Welcome back. We close today with a remarkable confrontation on Capitol Hill on the Senate floor on Wednesday. Several Republican senators
lashed out at fellow Republican Tommy Tuberville for holding up hundreds of military promotions in protest of the Pentagon's abortion policy.
[11:55:00]
Senator Dan Sullivan of Alaska argued the Tuberville holds are "Hugely disruptive to military readiness. And they come at a dangerous moment in
geopolitics".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): Xi Jinping is watching this right now; I can't believe they're not letting these guys command. I'm scared to death of
subs. He loves this so as Putin, they're loving it. How dumb can we be man?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Worth noting Dan Sullivan, former Marine, Tuberville former football coach disagrees his stalling effects military readiness and says he has no
plans to change course. I am Kasie Hunt. That is the "State of the Race" for today, Thursday, November 2nd; you can always follow me on Instagram
and the platform formerly known as Twitter. Don't go anywhere. "One World" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:00]
END
