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State of the Race with Kasie Hunt
Judge tells Trump to Answer Questions, not give Speeches; Judge Threatens to Excuse Trump from Stand; Donald Trump Takes Stand in Civil Fraud Trial; Trump Repeatedly Spars with Judge During Testimony; Biden Touts "Bidenomics" Amid Poor Poll Numbers; One More Thing. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired November 06, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST, STATE OF THE RACE: Trump takes the stand. It's already so drift -- in fact the judge told Trump's defense "If you can't
control him, I will" plus new polling from battleground states showing Trump beating President Joe Biden this as voters head to the polls for
tomorrow's off year elections we'll speak with former Democratic Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan.
Plus Joe Biden under pressure from progressive Democrats over the war in Gaza, they're saying don't count on us in 2024. Good day, everyone. I'm
Kasie Hunt. To our viewers watching in the United States and around the world it's 11 am here in Washington Monday, November 6th. Just one day
until this year's election two days until the next Republican Presidential Debate 364 days until Election Day. This is today's "State of the Race".
Right now high stakes and high drama in a New York courtroom; the Former President current Republican front runner in the 2024 election is on the
stand testifying in his civil fraud trial. It is the first time Donald Trump has answered questions under oath about allegations that he and his
co-defendants grossly inflated Trump's net worth in order to get better bank loans and insurance terms.
And he's already being reprimanded. The judge has told Trump's attorney they need to control their client and that this isn't a political rally.
This after the Former President essentially made a campaign speech before entering the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: So while Israel is a big attack while Ukraine is being attack, well, inflation is eating our country alive. I'm
down here. And these are all political opponent attack ads by the Biden Administration. Their poll numbers -- show what happened today, "The New
York Times" and "CBS" came out with a poll that I'm leading all over the place, but it's a very unfair situation. This is really election
We will go along and we will hopefully do very well in every regard. We will win the election then will "Make America Great Again", that's what
we're going to do. We're going to "Make America Great Again".
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes joins us from outside Trump Tower. Kristen, you have covered this man from quite some time -- for quite some time. It
really sounds like it's been a circus inside that New York courtroom. Bring us up to speed are you surprised? Is he doing this on purpose?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, I'm not surprised at all because he's answering the questions in full length these speeches
because he wants to get his narrative out there. Donald Trump is not going to answer your questions in a yes or no fashion.
He is going to answer questions in a way that he believes he can spin whatever he is saying to his benefit. That is what Donald Trump does. As we
have said time and time again, he does not want to fight these legal cases in a courtroom. He wants to fight them in the court of public opinion.
So what he is doing now is he is remaining calm. And he is answering these questions in lengthy phrases and speeches to walk through each thing, which
is clearly becoming frustrating to the Judge there who has tried to get him to answer and yes or no fashion.
Donald Trump, we were expecting to use the cameras outside of the courtroom to tell his version of the story. The fact that he says he is a victim that
everyone is against him that this is election interference because he is running for president in 2024. But now he's also using his seat within the
We actually heard him say or court reporters heard him say that this trial is very, very unfair, and that he hopes people are watching. He does hope
that people are watching Kasie because that is what Donald Trump likes the most as when people are paying attention.
And this is why he believes he can spin some of this in his favor saying that this is political because he has the attention of people right now. So
this is all part of a strategy. Now I do think it'll be interesting to see whether or not Donald Trump gets riled up. So far, he hasn't been yelling
If you're, you know -- what we're hearing from our court reporters is that he is just saying these lengthy answers to the questions that are far
beyond a yes or no. But there is a chance that Donald Trump will get worked up because this is something that makes him very, very angry. He has been
angry about this trial. And it goes to the core of who he is just personally and professionally and as a politician. This business is at the
center of who Donald Trump is.
HUNT: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you very much for that report. And you've got a long day. I really appreciate you starting us off here.
Let's dive into all this with today's panel. Miles Taylor, Former Chief of Staff the Department of Homeland Security he served in the George W. Bush
and Trump Administrations. Ashley Etienne is the Former Deputy Press Secretary to Vice President Kamala Harris also used to work for Nancy
Pelosi. Andrew Desiderio a Senior Congressional Reporter for Punchbowl News and CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams the star of our little show here this
Because Elliot, what on earth is going on in this courtroom? I mean, we've never seen anything like this. You and I've talked before about how this is
a bench trial. It's about the judge. It's not about the jury. He seems like determined to I don't know, like provoked the Judge?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, yes. And what it does not work out well for anybody when they get under the skin of a judge. And not to be
cute, but that's the fact that judges are the trier of fact and law. And if you get under on his nerves, you're going to lose. Here's the thing.
A lot of people are saying what will you do with Donald Trump? Can you sanction him or put him in jail or whatever else to make him stop? Well,
OK, maybe that doesn't matter, or effect Trump, what can happen is he could lose this trial.
And at the state of New York says, you are not allowed to operate business in the State of New York, it doesn't matter what you say, if you're Donald
Trump, you lose your business license, you lose $250 million here. And I think we're getting caught up in questions of what all voters think. And
that's all relevant and important.
WILLIAMS: But the Trump Organization may cease to exist, at least in the form that we know it today. And that's the big thing we're learning.
HUNT: Well, so the Trump campaign is already fundraising off the testimony that campaign just sent out a big blast email to everyone. And I mean,
Miles Taylor, I guess my question here is maybe the argument, you know, and Elliott can also help us understand this. I mean, to a certain extent, he's
already been set.
The judge has already said, you're liable and one count here. So he's already had -- he's already gonna have some implications for his
businesses. Is it the political move to essentially go ahead, get convicted, embrace that and say, the system's after me is that the winning
message with Republican voters and he cares more about that?
MILES TAYLOR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, I think Donald Trump should be taking Elliot's advice that --
HUNT: We should all be taking Elliott's advice -- well let's be clear.
TAYLOR: He's been legally reckless. But Donald Trump doesn't care about that, because he thinks he's been politically savvy. And that's what he's
trying to do here. He's trying to run for president again, it's not just a stunt to him; the presidency is in his mind his way out of these other
legal fights that he's in.
So he wants that more than anything, even if that costs him a large chunk of his business. So he is trying to portray himself as sort of a man
fighting for his First Amendment rights, even though that's not what's legally at stake here. But most viewers don't understand that.
And to a lot of Trump supporters, he is a martyr. And so when the judge says, if you can't control your client, I will control him. It's almost as
if Trump wants that. He wants to show himself further victimized by the justice system. So we can say look, they are going overboard. They are
doing to me what we would never do to our opponents.
HUNT: Yes. So I have to tell you, Miles, I am with you. My instincts initially around this were lined up with your analysis right there. But
Andrew, I am curious. He does seem to be very emotionally invested more than anything in the Trump brand, right?
I mean, he stands to lose control of Trump Tower, this iconic property that represents his family that represents all this fortune that he built. And
he does seem to be doing some things that raise questions about his like, it seems like he's letting his feelings get in the way of his judgment, I
guess is what I'll say. What's your sense?
ANDREW DESIDERIO, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Right? Well, so this goes to the core identity of who he is? How he built his
business, and how he branded himself as a politician?
And the way you're seeing him react, I think is emblematic of what he's trying to do with his presidential campaign, which is make this argument as
you see many Republicans in Congress making as well, that the federal government or you know, state governments, in this case, are weaponized
against me -- against you, the people against our movement.
And that is his chief message is playing the victim as Miles said, and that is the thing that he thinks will get him the Republican nomination. And as
of right now, it's working.
HUNT: Ashley as sort of the Democrat at the table --
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY TO U.S. VP KAMALA HARRIS: Sort of. I said sort of.
HUNT: We're going to get -- yes, well as the Democrat at the table. We are going to get into the polling that shows the President is in no significant
amount of trouble. I mean, I think we can actually put it up now, because I do think it's relevant to our conversation here.
HUNT: These new battleground state polls from "The New York Times" Siena show that in four States, Trump is leading Biden. The way CNN frames this,
there are two States that are within the margin of error, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, noting they're both in the margin of error, Wisconsin is the
only place that they show Biden up 47/45. This is the backdrop --
HUNT: -- with that you know, the President is doing all of this on top of I mean, there's an argument to be made that what he's doing is working why?
ETIENNE: I mean that's really the question I don't have an answer to. I mean, that was the issue I was going to raise with you now. I mean, I think
from the camp -- from Biden campaign's perspective, you know, they're saying its still early polls are not predictive. There was never a poll --
ETIENNE: -- that predicted Trump was going to win in 16. Everybody stay calm, and let's keep moving forward, right? That's been his brand and it's
worked out for him very well which is keep your head down and continue working.
But you raise the question that has been at the top of my mind for some time, which is, why are the polls where they are with Donald Trump? I don't
think it's just a reflection, obviously, of Joe Biden, and how people feel about Joe Biden. So I think that is the real question.
What is behind these numbers? Is it disinformation? We're clearly all living in alternate universes here, where Trump is the victim and he's
winning the race, right? So that's I don't know the answer to that question. And I think it's -- it says more about where we are as a nation
and who we are as a nation?
That people are willing to back a man whose 19 counts for indictments, for overturning -- again, the most egregious offenses against American
democracy, trying to overturn the election, as well as causing irreparable damage to national security.
So that's really the question is, why are we as Americans investing in this guy? Why would we want this guy to, you know, to be our President? He was
an unknown commodity in 16. We know exactly well --
HUNT: Well, he was known enough through --
ETIENNE: No, I mean, as -- but as a presidential figure, right?
HUNT: Sure. Sure.
ETIENNE: -- we now know how he governs. So that's really the question that is not for Biden to answer but for us to answer --
HUNT: Let me ask you a question because one of the things I think that this type of behavior at these trials, and the existence of the trials does is
it does seem to galvanize Republican voters who love Donald Trump to support him more aggressively.
HUNT: And one of the things that Biden is having trouble with is getting Democrats to support him with the same levels of fervor that these
Republicans support Donald Trump. Is that what's going on here?
ETIENNE: Well, I mean, the campaign will make the case that they're not really fully engaging Democratic voters quite yet, right? They're not me --
they're being aggressive in terms of pushing their message forward and getting in these battleground states and ad campaigns earlier than they've
ever been before.
But they will make an argument in the case that they have not yet fully engaged Democratic voters wherein the Republicans are actively in primary,
you know, season --
ETIENNE: -- they're campaigning. Donald Trump's on TV every day, constantly. So I think he has an advantage when it comes to that. And
that's how I think, you know, the campaign explains those numbers.
HUNT: All right. We've got so much more to talk about here thank you guys. We will be right back with much more of what is turning into a show trial
it seems although it is an actual trial for the Former President of the United States.
HUNT: Welcome back to "State of the Race" where we are watching every move that Donald Trump is making. Here he was just a moment ago, walking back
into the courtroom after they took a 15 minute break. He did not stop to talk to the cameras, but obviously flashed at that trademark thumbs up.
So Elliott Williams, let me come back to you here because you've been kind of following the breaking news. And these alerts read along with us. What
has stood out the most to you in terms of what the judge has been doing? I mean, it sounds like they've been questioning him on the facts.
HUNT: And then the President -- Former President has been taking the opportunity, the judge seems to think to make political speeches like what
are you -- what's your like summarization of what we've seen happen so far this morning and what it means?
WILLIAMS: I think the judge is either explicitly or implicitly saying that what works on the campaign trail, what works on FOX News, and CNN anywhere
does not work in a courtroom. And I think people don't really see the insides of courtrooms, and see how tightly controlled they are when a judge
is doing his job well.
And the kinds of things that get you in trouble are giving speeches, not answering the questions, attacking members of the court personnel and so
on. Those are the things and I'll say this, again, you can lose a trial over this, you can lose money over this.
And we talk about the $15,000 fines he's gotten for making statements of people. That's nothing, but there are huge consequences. And again, it
might work, people might still vote for him, he might still end up being President, but you can lose this trial.
HUNT: So what is really at stake here, in terms of his behavior today, when you say like this could make him lose a trial? Like how many millions of
dollars is that?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Up to $250 million --
HUNT: OK. And it's all up to the judge, because the judge is pissed off, he can just kind of say like, actually, what are the criteria?
WILLIAMS: Yes. So it wouldn't be as capricious, as I'm mad at you. So I'm going to make you lose. Now, there was a statement where the judges said
earlier today, I could dismiss this witness, because he's sort of being recalcitrant, and draw every negative inference from that.
What the judge can do is based on someone's not testifying, just as a rule, that is the opposite of whatever he would have said, in effect, drawing a
negative inference. And so the mere fact that the witness isn't on the stand means the other side wins, kind of.
You could do that. And just another way, you can do that, if he were to plead the fifth, you can also draw negative inference from that, and
basically just think, the worst of his possible or the opposite of his testimony. So it can be really bad if he ends up getting kicked out.
HUNT: And he did do that quite a bit in the deposition?
WILLIAMS: He did do that quite a bit in the deposition. And if the judge doesn't believe he doesn't find you credible, thinks that you're lying, not
telling the truth. These are all things that can count against.
HUNT: So this is a challenge Miles, because, you know, even in just trying to have that conversation with Elliot, I realized that I'm sitting here
wondering what's in the judge's head. I don't know the criteria. I'm not a lawyer, like Elliot is.
I don't know the criteria that the judge has to hold himself to in terms of professional standards. And, you know, making sure things are in order, it
seems very easy for a political figure to demonize the judge here as only doing this because of politics.
HUNT: And that's scary. I mean, this is another attack that Trump is making on the system.
TAYLOR: And I'm going to take you inside of his head, and I apologize in advance for putting you and the viewer's inside of Donald Trump's head.
HUNT: You spent more time there than I have.
TAYLOR: Well and here's what he's thinking, because I've seen him do this on a lot of issues in the White House and on the political campaign trail.
There are two words in his head right now. One is loser, and the other is victim. And Donald Trump is really, really conscious of optics.
And he knows that if he sits there, and he answers yes or no questions where a lawyer gets to make him look like a loser, then that's going to be
the outcome in his mind. But if he can protest this in his mind unjust trial, and be shut down by the judge be shut down by the Biden justice
system than he'll look like a victim.
And that's his key to keeping his cohort behind him on the campaign trail and in his mind, his key to winning this election to portray himself as a
victim of the American justice system and not as a loser as of that justice system.
And let me tell you, there were a lot of cases where on issues of great consequence, foreign policy, where the only way to convince Donald Trump
not to do something bad was just say look if you do option A you're going to look like a loser. If you do option B you'll look like a winner.
He thinks about everything in those terms. And that is exactly how he is operating in that courtroom.
WILLIAMS: Putting together both of your points. The public does not know the difference between the New York State Attorney General, the Special
Counsel working out of Washington, the U.S. Attorney in Miami, all of which you are prosecuting. These are all different sovereigns' different
entities. But I think --
WILLIAMS: -- to President Trump and the people who are hearing his messaging, it's just one oppressive Justice Department coming after him.
And that argument works. The public just does not understand the distinction in --
HUNT: In this case, the Attorney General is in fact a Democrat, which is not you know --
WILLIAMS: You know what --
HUNT: -- something to say about Jack Smith, right? So, Andrew, you cover Congress every day. And you know you and I have been through the hallways
under the Trump Administration when Republicans were all like, I don't know, its fine. Like I'm going to stick my head in the sand until obviously
DESIDERIO: -- I didn't see the --
HUNT: -- January 6th -- right, I didn't see the tweet. That's really.
HUNT: But the reality is that, you know, there are there are Republicans in Washington who want to win elections. People like Mitch McConnell, who say
that the chaos that Former President Donald Trump sowed is the reason they don't control the Senate.
There are two Democratic Senators from Georgia, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What is the sense you get from Republicans who are looking at data
across the country? They're obviously seeing the same polls that we are, but are they nervous about this kind of behavior? I mean, what do they
think this means?
DESIDERIO: I think this is Exhibit A for why Senate Republicans in particular really want to be talking about the issues and why they think
President Biden is vulnerable in 2024. Inflation is still too high. The economy's in rough shape still. And you know, the crisis of the southern
border is just getting worse, and it's affecting, really the entire nation.
And that's what Republicans really want to be talking about policy wise, not all of these various legal challenges piling up for Donald Trump. And
look, I've heard -- I've talked to many Senate Republicans, those in leadership out of leadership, who just, you know, have this view that
Donald Trump cannot win a year out from almost a year out from today, as long as we are still talking about his mounting legal troubles.
Because in their view that takes the focus away from the issues that voters are they think voting on and that they believe makes Joe Biden vulnerable?
HUNT: Yes. I mean, I guess this is the whole -- the Biden campaign is looking at it and making the same calculation. But I mean, actually do
think there is a risk that they are being too complacent even in the face of all these issues.
ETIENNE: I do --
HUNT: The Biden campaign specifically I mean they're running a Rose Garden strategy, right now?
ETIENNE: I would -- I actually argue yes, to some degree, not necessarily the campaign, but the Democratic Party. What I've been most disappointed
with is that there's not any part of the apparatus that's actively pushing back and pushing forward a counter message to Donald Trump right now.
Why aren't there Democrats on this panel? Why are there Democrats on TV framing up Donald Trump constantly in a way that we did when he was
President? When Speaker Pelosi was the Speaker, then we hammered Trump every day, not just in Washington. But now you're seeing Jeffrey's
hammering him in those 18 Biden states those 18 districts that Biden won, right?
ETIENNE: So anyway, but I also challenge this notion that Donald Trump is winning, we keep saying Donald Trump is winning, he's winning. Only in his
own mind, is he winning?
HUNT: Whole numbers.
ETIENNE: No, no, only in his posts -- are not predicting winners --
HUNT: I understand but these --
ETIENNE: -- last three --
HUNT: -- significant.
ETIENNE: But he's lost the last --
ETIENNE: He's lost the last three cycles, right?
ETIENNE: I mean, the Biden campaign will point to the fact that that Biden was pulling lower than Romney at the same time before his reelection.
HUNT: Look at these numbers. OK, because put those back up if you don't mind Mark. We know this is going to be an incredibly close election, right?
HUNT: It's very unlikely to be a 10 point race in a state even like Nevada, that's very unlikely. I'm going to just say to the outset, but the fact
that it shows that kind of a spread in a state that actually, you know, voted for Obama, once upon a time seems like --
ETIENNE: Voted for Biden.
HUNT: Yes, voted for Biden.
ETIENNE: No, I don't disagree that the numbers are alarming. But the question is, is how does the Democratic Party process those numbers, right,
which are not showing there is the 20 percent that we're losing black men 20 percent of Donald Trump, that is an alarming number, not as hotline, not
the top line numbers, because you know, they're going to move and that's by state, you know, there's only going to be 10,000 or so --
HUNT: What are you talking about help us explain what you were saying.
ETIENNE: Absolutely. But the numbers that when you dig deep into the poll, what really should be the concern of the Democratic Party as well as Biden
is that number that you're losing black men, by 20 percent. And by the way, at the time, when you have black men running the party, the Head of the DNC
is a black man; Mr. Jeffries is running House, Democrats.
So for me it's going to be really the test is how do they respond? How they process those numbers, not the top line, but digging deeper, that's where
the problem is.
HUNT: All right. Well, we've got to keep having this conversation because we are watching Former President Donald Trump again in a New York courtroom
today. We're going to talk about what impact his testimony may or may not have on the presidential race. We've been talking about it all morning.
We're going to have more of it coming up.
HUNT: Welcome back to "State of the Race". I'm Kasie Hunt. We're live in Washington. We are following proceedings in New York where the Former
President Donald Trump is testifying today in his civil fraud trial. Of course, his businesses -- he has businesses and his adult children are
accused of grossly inflating Trump's net worth in order to get better bank loans and insurance terms.
My panel is back with me. So let's continue this conversation that we've been having here. We've been talking about the polls. We have also been
talking a little bit about what the chaos factor here in the questions, Elliot that voters may have about the differences between these various
trials, because this is obviously the first time we've seen him actively in court.
And these trials are going to continue to play out through potentially the election year with him as the nominee, how do you see this evolving? Like
how is what we're seeing today going to be different from what we're going to see next from what we're going to see after that? Because -- in just
moved up the proceedings in the Jack Smith instance.
WILLIAMS: Right. When we talk about Judge -- we're talking about Washington D.C., a federal case into interference in the 2020 election. I think it's
important every time you talk about one of these cases to sort of give that disclaimer because there are so many different cases.
I think the biggest factor, and you see it here, well, you don't see it here because there are no cameras in the courtroom. And I think it's
entirely a different proceeding if people see it playing out. Even here, I'm sort of furiously reloading to see what's going on in the courtroom,
just because it's not being filmed.
WILLIAMS: I think a proceeding in Georgia down the road, whenever that comes, will be interesting because you're seeing images from inside the
courtroom that plays to the strength and is what we were talking about a little bit earlier about Donald Trump as a political candidate, and as a
person who can use the proceedings to sort of create a little bit of a circus.
And I think, you know, also more cameras show people this point that we were talking about earlier that courts are really constrained and you don't
-- it's slow. We were just talking in the break about how long these things take? How long a hearing take? How long someone sits on this -- ?
ETIENNE: Can I just add something too? I mean, I know we think that like these hearings and Trump playing victim plays right into his hands.
ETIENNE: And is going to galvanize Republican voters. I don't disagree with that. But here's another point that I think we haven't talked about, which
is, as these trials four trials continue to go on, if Donald Trump's not in jail by summer, I think it could have a depressive effect on the Democratic
Because it's going to be harder to make this argument that democracy is at stake and it actually works if only you can vote, but if Donald Trump is
not held accountable in court after being indicted on four different cases.
I think it's going to really depress, it could have the effect of depressing a Democratic turn.
HUNT: Yes, I mean, it's an interesting point, although I will say to play, I don't know if I'm playing devil's advocate or what. I mean, I still feel
a little bit out on a limb that we're having this conversation at all, which is just to do with the fact that we're living in a reality we haven't
But the fact that you can say, and it'd be real, if he's not in jail by summer. I mean, if he is in jail by summer, I can also see Miles, an
incredibly explosive situation on the right, I mean, if that were to actually play out.
TAYLOR: Yes. Well, and I'm glad actually brought that up, because I think the reason Democrats have been caught flat footed politically since 2016 is
a failure to anticipate the most chaotic outcomes. In 2016 they thought there's no chance Donald Trump can win. Donald Trump wins. It was as
chaotic as he had expressed his presidency would be in 2020.
Well, Joe Biden will beat him and Donald Trump will just see the presidency. No, he didn't. He contested the election. He put our country
into a state of turmoil that it's still in today. If you look at 2024, there are a lot of people watching right now that think, well, Donald Trump
will inevitably be convicted, he'll go to jail, and the Republicans will find some way to, you know, replace him.
Well, if we look at this logically, right now, Donald Trump does seem likely to be convicted on at least some of these charges. He does seem
somewhat likely to go to jail. But he also despite that seems very likely to remain the nominee. So let's put ourselves in that situation.
What happens when he's in jail as the nominee? I mean, we were talking in break to Andrew about how Republican Senators want to talk about the issues
and they don't want to talk about Trump's trials. But if he's in jail, and the nominee they will be forced to and I project that what they will do is
defend him, they will lean into him being a martyr, because they won't have any other option. And then we'll be trending towards potential
HUNT: And we've never seen them do anything else, Andrew?
DESIDERIO: Right, exactly. And I would add with the Senate on the line. Right now, the Senate is 51/49 in favor of the Democrats, obviously. But
Republicans have a number of favorable races all around the country. And they're going to need Donald Trump to help them get voters to turn out in
those states. States like Ohio, West Virginia, Montana, which are these ruby red states where you have a Democrat who's up for reelection in those
So this could also afford them for Senate Republicans hinge on their chances of reclaiming the majority, which right now are very high. But if
you don't have Donald Trump in your corner for that effort, it's going to be a lot harder.
ETIENNE: Yes I know I was just going to say I think for both of the parties the best -- outcome is an explosion. You do want an explosion on both
sides. You want both sides the base should be worked up and coming out and activate it.
HUNT: But it doesn't mean the explosion on the Republican side potentially mean violence? I mean, isn't that the -- of January 6th?
ETIENNE: Oh, no, absolutely. I mean, no, no, absolutely. I think you're absolutely right about that. And that's what makes us all very scary. But
the alternative is even scarier. I mean, the one thing we've not talked about here is if Trump actually doesn't win the primary, I think that's the
scariest dynamic for Democrats.
I mean, I think -- I feel, we feel very confident if Trump wins. We can out organize out fundraise and you know, he might likely be in jail, and we
could beat him. But if Nikki Haley wins, I mean, that's a whole another race. And to your point Miles, we haven't even thought about that still.
WILLIAMS: You know it's important to note, just to be clear, you can still definitely run for President from jail, and maybe even be President of the
United States from jail.
ETIENNE: No, not legally.
WILLIAMS: The questions never been tested. And this is part of the problem. And if we were to think of anywhere else in the world, that wasn't the
United States, Bolivia, somewhere in South America, or wherever else. The idea of someone running for President from jail actually isn't that
remarkable, and the idea of people rioting, and there being violence around it also wasn't that remarkable.
We as Americans don't have in our heads this notion that there actually can be significant unrest and problems with the system.
HUNT: Well, I mean, isn't that kind of what Trump was saying on his way into the courtroom? I don't know that we have -- I don't think we cut
actually that bite because I wasn't sure it would be best to give it more airtime. But he kept saying like, he kept trying. He's trying to convince
And you know I keep going back to this because there are so many people who are now convinced if you ask them in polls that Donald Trump won the 2020
election and that Joe Biden is an illegitimate President. They believe it because Donald Trump says it over and over and over again. And that was
what he said on his way in today. He said this is what happens in third world countries. It suggests that he's going to proceed exactly as you
WILLIAMS: And he has literally used the term saying the Justice Department is pulling the strings and staffing the New York State Attorney General's
Office and the New York DA's Office. Now number one, that's not true. Number two they're two entirely different entities.
But if you just say that sentence to most Americans, they're OK, that makes total sense. Merrick Garland is the one the Attorney General of the United
States is the one prosecuting him today. People will believe that kind of stuff and this narrative that have --
ETIENNE: And therefore Joe Biden.
TAYLOR: And why would he change his strategy? We look at those poll numbers and he is tightening the rust belt. He is tightening the rust belt and so
Trump is going to lean into this because in his mind he is winning in swing states right now in this strategy of being political in the courtroom is
how he's going to operate over the next few months, because in his mind it's a positive trend line to him being back in the White House.
ETIENNE: Well, so much -- disabused him of that only winning is on Election Day and you're in the way, you know, the Oval Office.
HUNT: Right. But if you can discredit the system on your way you can, as he has shown --
ETIENNE: He has been doing continue that, absolutely.
HUNT: -- continue to maintain political life. All right, we're going to press pause here. Up next, voters in swing states chime in about what
normally presidential races are about the economy. We're also going to dig a little bit more into those troubling poll numbers for Joe Biden. Former
Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan joins me to talk about that up next.
HUNT: All right. We have -- Joe Biden is trying to sell his economic plan to voters. But we know that many voters are not buying it with just under a
year left until the 2024 election. Pollsters asked registered voters in six key battleground states do you trust Joe Biden or Donald Trump to do a
better job on the economy?
The results as you can see Former President Trump 22 percentage points ahead of President Biden. Joining us now is Former Democratic Congressman
Tim Ryan. He also ran for President in 2020. Congressman Ryan, thank you very much for being here today.
FORMER REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): Hi, Kasie.
HUNT: I want to start actually -- I was supposed to show you at the beginning of this segment, the President of the United States selling his
economic message. He calls it Bidenomics. I want you to take a look at it, and then we'll talk about it watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's about your dignity. It's about pride. It's about respect. It's about being able to
look your kid in the eye and say, Honey, it's going to be OK. And mean it. That's the American dream. That's Bidenomics. It's written -- it's written
and what's always worked best for the country, investing in America, investing in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So Congressman, there's a lot there that I think helps explain why the Biden -- President Biden is trailing in polls and why the economic
message in particular may not be resonating. I mean, do you think he's on the right track with this Bidenomics message?
RYAN: No. I don't think it's a great message because people are still hurting. And they're not feeling like the economy is coming back. It's not
1996 are these moments in history where, you know, everyone was really feeling it. People aren't feeling it. And to put your name on that, I think
is a big mistake.
And I think it could end up hurting the President. But let me be very clear here, Kasie. I think this President does deserve a lot of credit because
he's the first President in decades that has been able to reindustrialize the United States with the Inflation Reduction Act, clean energy,
batteries, electric vehicles, the Chips Act.
Here in Ohio, we're seeing huge billions of dollars invested to return chip manufacturing to the United States. Add on that that bipartisan
infrastructure bill. So he's done a lot. But you can't have a message that's telling people they're doing better than they feel they're doing
because not only are you wrong, because they feel like they're not doing as well, because of inflation.
You also seem disconnected from their needs, their thoughts, their anxieties moment, the moment. And if you miss that, then you're going to
miss getting them to vote for you.
HUNT: What do you make of the polls that we have out over the weekend from "The New York Times" Siena that show Biden trailing Trump in a series of
swing states? How loud is that warning siren blaring for them? Or do you think they have plenty of time to fix it?
RYAN: Well, it scares the hell out of me, I can tell you that. Because those polls are matching what I hear on the ground here in Ohio, and what
my friends are hearing, you know, across the country, is that they want to new politics, they want to move in another direction. They don't want Biden
to run and they don't want Trump to run.
I think that's 70 to 80 percent of the country wants a new generation of leaders to come up. And I think it's going to be tough sledding because you
know people see the President is older and it's tough to get rid of that stigma. They don't feel the economic plan working and his name is on it.
And look, I voted for that stuff. I think its great stuff. But you can't message to somebody, you know, to feel differently than how they feel. And
I think that's what they're doing. And so people I think are a little bit more nostalgic about, you know, Trump being in office, because I'm not sure
things were better than, but they felt like they were maybe even a pre- pandemic.
And that's how they feel. And you've got to respect that. So the message is got to be we got a ton of more work to do. This is -- we've been
industrialized for 40 years. We've had globalization and automation. I know you're hurting. We're taking this brick by brick, step by step.
And we got to keep building on what we did. And then -- a little bit more of your futuristic agenda, but to just tell them, they're doing better.
Look, I'm a Democrat, but that's just not going to work.
HUNT: Dean Phillips launched a late campaign against President Biden, but there was really no serious has been no serious primary challenge. Do you
think Democrats are going to regret that? Do you regret on not running?
RYAN: I don't. I mean, I'm worried I'm very, very worried. But you know I'm coaching flag football and basketball for my nine year old, so I'm having a
ball. But I'm concerned for him in his future. And I do think -- look, I've said this Kasie, this is not breaking news. I don't think the President
I don't think Trump should run. I don't think President Biden should run. We have talent in the Democratic Party. There are some leaders in the
Republican Party who are willing to take on the insurrectionists and take on Trump. And I think those candidates should be considered as well.
But the whole country wants to move on. And I think that it would be the right thing to do for the President to not run for him to focus on what's
going on in the Middle East focus on what's going on in Ukraine. He's doing a good job, focus on the inequality, focus on the inflation, but spend the
next 14 months focusing on that and let new candidates emerge in the Democratic Party.
I think that would force the hand of the Republicans because any -- as that poll -- those polls that you showed a generic Democrat beats Trump 55/45.
So what's in the best interest of the country here and I don't mean to be so frank. I love Joe Biden. He's done a great service to this country. He
saved this country by beating Donald Trump, but now it's time for us to just take the next step.
HUNT: Do you think he's going to lose to Trump if Trump wins the Republican nomination?
RYAN: I don't know. But I think it's going to be he could. And I think it's going to be a hell of a lot closer than a lot of the Democrats inside
Washington D.C. think. I mean I'm just telling you I've been out of office now Kasie 9 or 10 months. I live in Ohio. You know, I'm at flag football
games, I'm at basketball games. I'm with average people.
And this is not working. And I think it's going to be the fact that it's even too close to the call. This guy is getting indicted in four different
states on 90 some different counts. I mean, he led an insurrection against the country to overturn our democracy, free and fair elections. He's been -
- he's disaster Donald Trump is.
And for it to even be this close, let alone he's winning in these blue states where we should, given everything that we've done, we should be up
huge. You know, I mean, that just shows I think, how bad the Democratic Party brand is and how unfortunately people are looking at President Biden
not quite connecting to them on the issues that are important to them.
And that's their economic anxiety. He's got a plan. Like I said, he should get all the credit in the world for being as pro-union as he is. There's
not been a more pro-union President in the country and the country's history, probably. There's been no modern President who's reindustrialize
the country like he has, he's done a good job.
He's managing two regional wars that both could spin out into larger conflicts. So like, you know, he's doing a good job, but it's not
resonating with the American people. And it's just to me, in my estimation, for me, my family, my kids, it's just too risky.
HUNT: Well, some tough love from you, Tim Ryan, thank you very much for spending some time with us today. I hope you'll come back on the program
RYAN: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. See you soon. All right, let's bring back my panel to talk about all that. Ashley, I hope you're able to hear it, because I'm going to
put you on the spot a little bit. That was -- he had some tough words for the President. What you hear from him that?
ETIENNE: No, he didn't. The Congressman didn't mince words. I mean, it was pretty powerful. And I to some degree, I agree with him. I think, you know,
the messaging; it doesn't align with how people feel. But that doesn't mean we should not continue to push forward you know to your point, take a
playbook out of Donald Trump's strategy.
And that is to just keep telling people until they're convinced of it, because it actually is based in fact. Here's the other point, though, I'd
like to make. There's a lot of pressure being put on Joe Biden to move out of the way and make room for the next generation.
You know I worked for Speaker Pelosi as her Communications Director; they made the same argument against her. But here's the thing, no one ever made
room for Barack Obama, no one made room for Bill Clinton, no one made room for Nancy Pelosi, circa the first time she ran when there was only 10 women
You know leaders that are meant to be in that Oval, they rise to the top. People don't make room for them. They make room for themselves. So if
there's an alternative, I'm you know, happy willing to entertain it. But I don't think there should be because the President has an incredible record.
But it's not -- he's obligated to move out of the way. Whoever wants to run should make their case and of the American people and the Democrats back
them then there it should be.
HUNT: I actually think that's a really great point. The idea that you know, you don't -- I mean, in theory, that'd be what people mad at you. There are
a lot of people that were not happy that Barack Obama rose to that primary the way that he did. But at the end of the day, he had what it took. Andrew
Desiderio -- sorry, go ahead --
ETIENNE: No, I was just going to say one thing. It's like what my old boss Pelosi used to say power isn't given, it's taken. You know, you want it you
got to get out there and take it, you know, no one's going to give it to you.
HUNT: Yes. It explains a lot about Nancy Pelosi -- have been so good at what she does and manipulating raw power. Andrew, what did you -- I mean,
Tim Ryan, obviously was a former member of Congress. He actually angered Nancy Pelosi, because he tried to run against her and he failed.
And he decided this time you know he wasn't going to run against Joe Biden, even though there were some whispers and some conversations. Well, maybe he
would. Isn't there somebody else other than Joe Biden?
DESIDERIO: Well, with a line that stood out to me from that interview, Kasie was when he said that he thinks President Biden has done a good job,
but that it's not resonating yet. And I think a lot of Democrats would just point to the fact that we're not really in general election campaign mode
And it's not really time for the Biden campaign to make that argument. But when you look to the first two years of Joe Biden's Presidency, you see a
lot of big bipartisan achievements that, you know, were accomplished only because enough Republicans in the Senate helped him achieve them.
I mean if you look at for example -- the bipartisan infrastructure bill, Mitch McConnell champion that. He appeared with Joe Biden in Kentucky to
champion it. I mean, that is a significant moment, right? And voters love infrastructure, they love to hear about it.
They love to hear about how it's impacting their localities. And I think we're not yet in the mode of this campaign, where Democrats and the Biden
campaign in particular can start to make the case about those accomplishments and point to them and say look, this wasn't just President
Biden actually; Republicans helped him do this.
HUNT: Miles, do you think that this is going to shift if in fact Donald Trump does win the nomination and this becomes a very real thing for
I mean if he becomes the nominee -- in many ways -- if the referendum on the incumbent President right, Biden likely loses if it's a referendum on
Trump, this is their theory of the case than Democrats are likely to win? I mean, do you see that balance shifting you know six months from now or not?
TAYLOR: Well I mean it could shift even sooner than that, Kasie. I mean, my message to Democrats would be take Tim Ryan seriously. You know, I'm from
the Midwest and so goes in the Midwest, so goes the nation. That's what this election is going to be about. That rust belt and blue collar workers
are going to be the pathway to the presidency.
And you know Tim Ryan is not just pointing out a smoke alarm that's going off. He's pointing out a five alarm fire here for Democrats. And I think
we're hearing that right now for more and more people. I mean its amazing hearing it from actually hearing it from Tim Ryan.
And then we just saw I think, a few hours ago, David Axelrod, Former Senior Adviser to Barack Obama saying that these poll numbers out of these swing
states are sending shivers down the spine of the Democratic Party and it's time to look another direction. I mean, for a while this year, for the past
few months it's kind of been tremors about whether something's going to change.
But this seems to be heralding a full on political earthquake, more and more pressure from Democrats to the Biden White House to consider some sort
of dramatic change. Because there's a fear that he cannot beat Donald Trump, even the many times indicted impeached damaged Donald Trump. It's
just not happening and the polls show it's not happening. So something's got to give on the Democratic side.
HUNT: Of course, the President's belief that he's the only one who can beat Donald Trump a big part of why we are here today. All right, coming up, you
guys are going to come back and the panel is going to rejoin me with "One More Thing" don't go anywhere.
HUNT: Welcome back to "State of the Race". My panel rejoins me now. And before we go, we always like to ask for "One More Thing" on the campaign
trail or in Washington that you're watching for in the coming days. We'll do quick wrap around 30 seconds each. Ashley, let me start with you.
ETIENNE: Yes, I'm going to be watching what happens in Virginia. You know, I was just in Chicago; we were celebrating 15 years of Barack Obama
winning. I was in that state 15 years ago, when we flipped it for Democrats the first time in three decades.
It's a bellwether. It's really going to, in my opinion give us a sense in the Democratic Party, a sense of what issues are resonating with voters,
especially those in the suburbs, disaffected Republicans and those that are trying to find a home separate and apart from Donald Trump.
So that's really what I'm looking at to see what's going to resonate there. And it's going to really give us an indication, the depth and the degree to
which Joe Biden has a problem.
HUNT: It was barely been able to talk about the voters voting on the first Tuesday of November tomorrow because of Trump in court. So I'm glad you
raised that. Miles, what's your "One More Thing"?
TAYLOR: Well look, I'm going to be looking at the curveballs Kasie. The curveball that's happening right now was going to be more Democrats coming
out and pressuring the White House either to have Joe Biden stepped down and replaced by another candidate or potentially to replace his Vice
President. That's a big curveball.
There's a curveball on the horizon of a potential third party unity ticket being announced by no labels. It's kind of been at the periphery of the
news cycle. I think going into next year that could potentially really up end to this race.
And then the thing not enough people are talking about is we have not seen the big disruptive potential of artificial intelligence yet on this
election. But trust me, 2016 and 2020 will look like a cakewalk by comparison, when it comes to misinformation and disinformation, it could
really upset this race.
HUNT: That is a cheerful note to end the show on, Miles. We'll have you back to talk more about that. Andrew, what's your "One More Thing"?
DESIDERIO: Well Kasie, it's on a topic that you know very well. It's Senator Tommy Tuberville's unprecedented month's long blockade of senior
military promotions. Republicans are starting to sour on it. And they're starting to put pressure on Senator Tuberville to relent. The Republicans
will have a special conference meeting tomorrow at 3.30 pm. I will be sticking it out and trying to get as many nuggets as I can from that room.
As you know very well, the process of doing that and see if Republicans are going to support this effort by Democrats to go for a temporary change of
the rules to circumvent this unprecedented blockade.
HUNT: An incredibly important question for our military. I am also going to be watching Virginia to Ashley's point, but for another reason, I'm
interested to know if Republicans do, do well in Virginia. What does Glenn Youngkin do the day after? Because he has said, many people have been
trying to push him into the presidential race and that it all hinges on what happens tomorrow night.
Thank you all for being here with us today. I'm Kasie Hunt. That is the "State of the Race" for today, Monday, November 6th. You can always follow
me on Instagram and on the platform formerly known as Twitter. Don't go anywhere. "One World" is up next.