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State of the Union

Dump Trump?; Heat on Trump in Second Debate; Interview With Vice Presidential Candidate Tim Kaine; Interview With Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani; Donald Trump's Sexually Aggressive Comments Caught On Tape. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired October 09, 2016 - 09:00   ET




JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Dump Trump? Top Republicans now calling on Trump to drop out.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: Step down. Allow someone else to carry the banner.

TAPPER: Could Mike Pence actually take his place at the top of the ticket?

This just hours before Trump's second showdown with Hillary Clinton. We are live from the debate site, where the heat is on. How will Donald Trump respond to that leaked tape?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

TAPPER: Plus, another hack, this one revealing Hillary Clinton's secret speeches to Wall Street. What did she say behind closed doors? Her running mate, Tim Kaine, responds in an exclusive interview next.

And the best political minds will be here live from the debate hall.


TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper at Wash U, the site of tonight's here in Saint Louis, where state of our union is revolting.

Revolting is a word that both describes the content of this new tape of Donald Trump and the status of Republican officeholders across the country who are revolting against his candidacy.

GOP leaders calling on their nominee to drop out just days before the election, an unprecedented move provoked by the leaked tape exposing Donald Trump's vile language about how he treats women.


TRUMP: I've got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful -- I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And, when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything.

BILLY BUSH, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": Whatever you want.

TRUMP: Grab them by the (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


TRUMP: I can do anything.


TAPPER: We are now just hours away from what could be the most critical moment of Donald Trump's campaign, as he takes the debate stage with Hillary Clinton right here on CNN.

Her running mate, Tim Kaine, joined me for an exclusive interview.


TAPPER: Thanks so much for joining us, Senator. Appreciate it.


TAPPER: So, let's start with this new Donald Trump tape that came out on Friday, in which he exhibits a casual attitude towards sexual assault. Is Hillary Clinton going to bring it up at the debate Sunday night, and what's she's going to say, if so?

KAINE: Well, I don't exactly know what she's going to say about it during the debate.

I imagine some of the undecided voters who are part of this town hall forum will have questions about it. And I really think it's for Donald Trump to try to answer it and take responsibility.

His statement trying to say, look, I regret these words, it's not just words. It really is talking about a pattern of sexual assault. And so I just -- I can't imagine that undecided voters that are part of this town hall will not want to hear him explain why he thought that was acceptable behavior.

TAPPER: A pattern of sexual assault is what you said. And that certainly sounds like what he's saying, but do you know of any evidence that he actually acted in that way?

KAINE: My understanding is that there are stories in some papers today with individuals basically saying that they were subject to exactly the treatment that he describes on the tape.

So, you know, this would be a question for Donald Trump to answer. If he says, "I may have said those things, but I never did them," that's one thing. But I think the tape raises an awful lot of questions. And if you take that tape as Donald has accurately describing his actions, then, yes, it is a pattern of assaultive behavior, and it's much more than words.

And I think the issue, Jake, that it raises is not just a question for Donald Trump to address as he talks to the voters during the debate, but it's also something that candidates who stood with Donald Trump have to address.

If you are a GOP officeholder or candidate, and you stood with Donald Trump, people ought to be asking you now, do you still think he's qualified to be president and do you still support him? A number of people are withdrawing their support, but anybody who hasn't declared where they are on that question needs to be asked that question.

TAPPER: As you noted, a number of Republican lawmakers are withdrawing their support. A number of them are also calling on Donald Trump to step aside and let Governor Mike Pence be in the top of the ticket.

Without getting into state-by-state campaign and election law and whether or not that's even possible, do you think that would be the right move for the country?

KAINE: Well, I don't presume to give the GOP advice. The GOP had a nominating process, and they chose Donald Trump as their candidate.

You're right, Jake, that it is a complicated thing, the votes of all 50 states. I mean, my son, for example, is in the military. He is deployed overseas. He cast his vote a week ago.

There have been hundreds of thousands of votes cast in multiple states and by troops and Americans living abroad. So, it's complicated. But the question of who the GOP nominee is was resolved by the GOP in Cleveland. And if they regret it now, it's up to them to determine what they would want to do about it.


TAPPER: I'm sure you know Donald Trump put out a video message on Friday. He said -- quote -- "I was wrong, and I apologize."

But then he called this a distraction, and he criticized Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Take a listen.


TRUMP: I have said some foolish things, but there's a big difference between the words and actions of other people. Bill Clinton has actually abused women, and Hillary has bullied, attacked, shamed and intimidated his victims.


TAPPER: I'm sure that Hillary Clinton is preparing for that charge to be leveled Sunday evening.

What's your response?

KAINE: Well, you know, there was some chance this was going to come up at my debate earlier this week, because Donald Trump, after he lost the first debate, went to the spin room and said, OK, now the Clintons' marriage is fair game.

And, you know, I can't -- I can't say how Donald Trump should run his campaign, but I can say this. The Clinton/Kaine campaign is not about this. It's not about the marriages of folks at the top of the ticket. It's about issues that voters care about.

And I know that those voters at the town hall forum tomorrow night are going to have a lot of questions. My gut is that most of the questions are going to be about really basic issues, like how to grow the economy and how to keep America safe in the world.

And, you know, if Donald wants to talk about something other than what voters want to talk about, that's his choice. But I suspect that Hillary Clinton is going to talk about the things that voters really care about.

TAPPER: Well, you also said just a few minutes ago that you think the voters are going to have questions about what Donald Trump says on this tape, so it's not as though the personal conduct of Donald Trump you think is something that voters are not interested in.

Is it not possible that some of them might also have questions about Bill Clinton's behavior and Hillary Clinton's response to Bill Clinton's behavior?

KAINE: I would find it unlikely, but, again, it's going to be those voters that ask about it.

Remember, Jake, this is a -- this actually part of a broader pattern, because, as I was getting into in my debate Tuesday, Donald Trump has run a campaign where he's perpetrated a bigoted lie that President Obama wasn't a United States citizen. He's gone after immigrants. He's gone after Muslims.

He's attacked military families and John McCain, a POW. He said many other deplorable things about women. There's a broad pattern of disrespect, both in word, action and policy, toward all kinds of people.

And that is, I think, why this issue on Friday just so galvanized people, because it's not something you can explain away as an aberration or hear something that: Well, this was me 10 years ago; it's not who I am now.

There's plenty of evidence that this is exactly who Donald Trump is today. And by this, I mean divisive and cavalier in his treatment of others.

And with respect to women in particular, what this shows, I think, at its base is that he cannot consider women as his equals. I think there's kind of a piece of the jigsaw puzzle missing in Donald Trump where he does not look at women and consider them as equal to himself.

TAPPER: There's a "Richmond Times-Dispatch" story from 2002, when the Republican speaker of Virginia House of Delegates, Vance Wilkins, was facing allegations of sexual misconduct.

And it says that you were quoted saying, "'If the allegations are true, he should definitely resign,'" Kaine said." And then it says that you held the same view about President Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal.

Is that describing your view accurately? And, if so, is that at all relevant, do you think?

KAINE: Not my feelings back in the '90s. We're in 2016 now. And there are two names on the ballot for president, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. And that's the choice that voters have to make.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the latest revelations from WikiLeaks.

We finally got a glimpse at excerpts from those famous paid speeches by Hillary Clinton that Bernie Sanders wanted released during the Democratic primaries. In one of them, in a closed-door 2013 speech to a Brazilian bank, Secretary Clinton said this.

Take a look -- quote -- "My dream is a hemispheric common market with open borders some time in the future."

Is that her dream? Is that what she wants, open borders, an open market?

KAINE: Yes, Jake, I'm glad you asked it that way, because I don't think we can dignify documents dumped by WikiLeaks and just assume that they're all accurate and true. Anybody who hacks into get documents is completely capable of manipulating them.

But you asked a question about, what is her position on policy? Hillary's position on policy, on markets and trade is very plain, which is, we will do trade deals, but only if they meet three criteria: Do they increase American jobs, do they increase American wages, and are they good for national security? And, if they are, and if we can enforce them, then trade deals are OK. But, if they're not, we can't embrace them.


And, as you know, when Hillary was a U.S. senator, she voted for some trade deals when they met her standards, but she voted against others when they didn't.

We're going to fight so that the only trade deals we will contemplate are ones that have the high standards that she set out.

TAPPER: Right.

But, Senator, I mean, first of all, are you disputing the accuracy of this? Did Hillary Clinton not say to these Brazilian bankers that she had this dream?


KAINE: Jake, I have no way of knowing the accuracy of documents dumped by this hacking organization.

But I just -- I think it is really important. This hacking has been connected -- much of the hacking has been connected to the Russian government.

Yesterday, the director of national intelligence indicated that this kind of hacking has been traced directly to the Russian government, and there is a direct intent to influence the outcome of an American election.

If that is, in fact, true, you cannot accept as gospel truth everything that they might put in a document.

But you didn't ask about the document. You asked me what Hillary Clinton's position was.

TAPPER: Right. That's fair.

Is this document then -- is it accurate? Did she tell Brazilian bankers that her dream is...


KAINE: I have no way of knowing that. I have no way of knowing that.

TAPPER: Well, you could ask her.

KAINE: But the documents are in the thousands.

I haven't asked her. But you asked me about her position on trade. And her position on trade is very clear.

TAPPER: What about her position on borders? She says her dream -- in this document, her dream is a hemispheric common market with open borders.

Is that something that, in the Clinton/Kaine administration, we would see, open borders?

KAINE: We believe in comprehensive immigration reform that would -- with the pillars that we have described, where we would have more border security.

Jake, as you know, I voted for significant investments in border security in June of 2013 and continue to believe that's part of a comprehensive immigration reform plan, along with the value of keeping families together and providing a path to citizenship for those who work hard, play by the rules and pay taxes.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Tim Kaine, thank you so much. We always appreciate you coming and answering our questions. I appreciate it. KAINE: Yes.

TAPPER: And good luck on the campaign trail.

KAINE: Very glad to, Jake.


TAPPER: Trump and his advisers spent the weekend huddled inside Trump Tower. What is their strategy going into tonight's debate?

Rudy Giuliani will be here next.

Stay with us.



TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper at Washington University in Saint Louis, the site of tonight's debate on CNN.

As his campaign threatens to collapse around him, yesterday, Trump huddled with a few top advisers, emerging from Trump Tower only to wave at his loyal fans and, of course, to tweet -- quote -- "The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly. I will never drop out of the race, will never let my supporters down #MAGA," as in "Make America Great Again."

So, can we expect a defiant Trump at tonight's debate?

Let's ask one of the few advisers who saw him yesterday, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, I should say your fellow Trump adviser, Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey, was originally scheduled to be here, but the Trump campaign canceled that appearance and offered you instead. I did not expect to see you back here so soon, but welcome. We're glad to have you.


RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: Thank you. Thanks for having me back.

TAPPER: So, I have got to start, obviously, with this explosive audiotape of Donald Trump that came out on Friday. This tape, which was recorded in 2005, on it, we hear Donald Trump behaving in, I think it's fair to say, a vile and disgusting way.

It's not just the word he uses. He's essentially voicing a casual attitude toward sexual assault. What was your response when you first heard it?

GIULIANI: Well, I think it was the response of everyone else. They're horrible remarks. They're remarks you certainly don't want to hear from anyone, much less a presidential candidate.

Then, when you reflect on it, he apologized for them. He said he realized that he was wrong. That doesn't reflect the way he looks at things today. And I think he made a full and complete apology for it. He probably is going to do it again tonight.

So, then we have to factor that into all the other things that are involved in this election, which include what's going to happen with our economy, what's going to happen with us nationally, where we can have higher taxes or lower taxes. What kind of Supreme Court are we going to have?

All those things are going to -- are going to go on, no matter what. And the question, is this the one issue on which we should decide it? Apparently, Democrats don't think the one issue they should decide their election on is the fact that Hillary Clinton seems to have used the State Department as a pay-for-play operation of the Clinton Foundation, hundreds of millions of dollars, 20 percent of our uranium sold to Russia, and $200 million or so going to the Clinton Foundation.


GIULIANI: These are things that are, you know, equally as bad, in fact, criminal.

TAPPER: I -- I understand -- I understand...

GIULIANI: But the Democrats seem to overcome that. The Democrats seem to overcome that.

TAPPER: Yes, I understand...

GIULIANI: And the Republicans are, you know, panicking.

TAPPER: I understand you would want to change the subject. I would, too, were I you.


TAPPER: First of all, let me say that I don't know that a lot of people who saw the tape, who saw the apology thought it was a sincere apology. I have heard Trump supporters describe it as not seeming sincere.

In the tape, he goes on to say that -- he goes on to attack Bill and Hillary Clinton for their behavior. Normally, a full and contrite apology is just an acceptance that one did something wrong, and it's not just the...


GIULIANI: Which he did.

TAPPER: ... words he uses. I think it's this casual attitude, and then no deflection, just: I accept it. I did something wrong, and that's the end of it.

He went on the attack against the Clintons. And I think a lot of people thought, boy, this doesn't really feel like an apology to me.

GIULIANI: Well, first of all, it was an apology. I mean, that was -- he definitely apologized.

And I know, from talking to him, that he genuinely feels very sorry about this. And it's certainly not the views that he holds today. He's run for public office. He has spent the last year-and-a-half traveling around the country. He realizes the responsibility that he has to the people that follow him and that believe that we have to make a change in this country.

I think that alone has put a heavier weight of responsibility on his shoulders than he ever had when even he was an entertainment star and the star of "The Apprentice." It's a different man that emerges when you campaign around the country for a year-and-a-half and you hear the concerns and the problems of the American people, and you realize that roughly half of them believe what he believes and think this country needs a very big change. And he's the agent of that change. So, yes, he...

TAPPER: Right, but I guess the question is, he's talking about actions that are sexual assault. And he was 59 or 60 years old when he said it. This wasn't something that he said when he was 18 years old.

He is talking about a feeling of entitlement because he's a star. He can go up to women and grab them by the vagina, and it's OK, he won't get in trouble for it.

It's really offensive on just a basic human level.

GIULIANI: Yes, it is.

TAPPER: Who did he do that to?

GIULIANI: Well, first of all, I don't know that he did it to anyone. This is talk.

And gosh almighty, you know, he who hasn't sin throw the first stone here. I know some of these people dropping their support that...

TAPPER: I will gladly tell you -- Mr. Mayor, I have never said that. I have never done that. I'm happy to throw a stone.

I don't know any man...

GIULIANI: Oh, Jake...

TAPPER: I have -- I have been in locker rooms. I have been a member of a fraternity. I have never heard any man ever brag about being able to maul women because they get away with it, never.

GIULIANI: He -- well, we have taken it to an extra degree, but -- in any event, we have taken it to an extra degree of what he said.

But the fact is that men at times talk like that, not all men, but men do.

TAPPER: You have talked like that?

GIULIANI: He was wrong for doing it. I am not justifying it. I believe it's wrong. I know he believes it's wrong.

I believe the this is not the man that we're talking about today. And maybe the reference to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton is the fact that you're really upset about this, but, gosh almighty, there were an awful lot of things, particularly Hillary Clinton attacking the women who Bill Clinton sexually assaulted, sexually abused, and she was the leader of the attack against them.

So, maybe he felt that that at least put in context the kind of anger that there would be at him.

TAPPER: Well, I think a lot of those charges came out in the '90s, and I think they did offend a lot of people and continue to offend a lot of people. But, Bill Clinton, as we have discussed, is not the nominee.

GIULIANI: Well, I wasn't -- I wasn't...

TAPPER: Do we expect Donald Trump this evening to go after -- to go after the Clintons on this issue, on wanting...


TAPPER: ... that you're referring to?

GIULIANI: No, I don't expect him -- I certainly don't expect him to go after Bill Clinton.

And you're absolutely right. You're correct. Bill Clinton is not the candidate. But Hillary Clinton is the candidate. And Hillary Clinton, in many of those situations, was either leading or part of the attack on the women who were telling the truth. And...

TAPPER: I don't really know that that's factually accurate.

GIULIANI: Oh, that is -- that is factually accurate.

TAPPER: I mean, I know that she said nasty things -- she said nasty things about Gennifer Flowers, but I have gone through, and I have looked as to what she actually said and did. And I don't know that that's true, Mr. Mayor.

GIULIANI: Well, that is true.

I mean, all you have to do is read the books about those times, and all the things that had to be done when Governor Clinton was running for president, and the women that had to be visited. And you would have to be naive not to realize that that was going on, plus the things that she said about Monica Lewinsky.

I don't -- I don't want to get into all that. But the reality is, you can't -- you can't sit there and say it's not true that Hillary Clinton was attacking these women. There are -- there are all sorts of quotes from her about it.

And every -- everyone who has dealt with him, even -- even in George Stephanopoulos' book, he talks about it.

TAPPER: You say that what really matters are the issues facing the American people today.

GIULIANI: And I believe...


TAPPER: But I have to say, even before this story came out, even before the story was out...

GIULIANI: I believe...

TAPPER: ... Hillary Clinton was winning in almost every battleground state.

We now have 16 Republican senators, 16, who say that either they cannot support Donald Trump or that he needs to reexamine his candidacy, possibly even drop out of the race.

What is your message to these Republicans, senators, governors, members of the House, who say they're not voting for Donald Trump, he should consider, for the good of their party, for the good of the country, to leave the race?


GIULIANI: Well, my message is that his presidency will be a heck of a lot better than Hillary Clinton's, from their point of view.

His presidency will reduce taxes. His presidency will end up putting us in a much stronger position with regard to radical Islamic terrorism. He's going to increase the size of the military. She is going to decrease it dramatically.

And I believe his approach to radical Islamic terrorism is going to help reduce and hopefully eliminate these attacks that we're now getting in America that now are the greatest number of attacks we have had since September 11 in less than a year.

TAPPER: So, the last question for you, Mr. Mayor, has anyone in this inner circle broached the subject of stepping down with Mr. Trump? Has anyone even raised it?

Is he even aware that 16 U.S. Republican -- U.S. senators who are Republicans...

GIULIANI: Of course he's... TAPPER: ... are saying they're not voting for him? And what's his response?

GIULIANI: Well, I don't know if he's -- he's aware of the exact number. I wasn't aware of the exact number until you gave it to me, but I was aware yesterday that there were various people asking for him to step down.

Yes, he is aware of the fact that a number of Republicans have pulled their support. And he is not going to drop out. He is going to remain. He is going to apologize for what he did. He is going to explain to people that that is not the man he is today. And he is going to count on the fact that the American people are fair and decent people, and when someone asks for forgiveness, they usually give it.

I mean, and the reality is, this is not the man then. There wasn't -- this is not the man that ran for president for a year-and-a-half and has learned the tremendous concerns the American people have, and really is the only one right now who is in a position to straighten it out.

TAPPER: Mayor Giuliani, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

GIULIANI: Thank you. Thank you very much.

TAPPER: Coming up: Melania Trump standing by her husband in a new statement. Will she be at his side this evening? What to expect inside the debate hall?

That story next. Stay with us.




TRUMP: I pledge to be a better man tomorrow and will never, ever let you down. Let's be honest, we're living in the real world. This is nothing more than a distraction from the important issues we are facing today. See you at the debate on Sunday.


TAPPER: That was Donald Trump apologizing? So how will we see a humble Donald Trump tonight?

Here with me in St. Louis at the site of this evening's debate, CNN political commentators Van Jones, a former Obama adviser. Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. Patti Solis Doyle, Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign manager, and Andre Bauer, former lieutenant governor of South Carolina, currently a Trump supporter. Andre, what are we going to hear from Trump at tonight's town hall? Is he going to be contrite or is he (ph) going to go on the attack do you say?

ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think this is a real opportunity to be a defining moment in this campaign.

I think he's got to come out very humbly and say, look, I have made mistakes in my life and I feel sure that Hillary Clinton's campaign is armed and they're going to throw other things at me, and you're going to see other things that I don't feel good about, but I can tell you I'm a different man than I was back then today. I have been influenced by the people of this great country as I've traveled and there are so many people that are reaching down deep to find solutions to real problems that Washington has not fixed in decades and I really can take a businessman's approach and turn this country around.

He's going to have to show a lot of humility, but it's a real opportunity. I think back to John King asking that opening remark in the debate primary to Newt Gingrich about him asking his wife for what had been out -- alleged open affair or something I can't remember how exactly it was phrased, and he knocked it out of the park. I think it won the primary in South Carolina. For me it was so powerful.

Gingrich was prepared and he didn't back down. And he went forward and he went a third time at that and said, boom, boom, boom and he had his remarks prepared and he crushed it and the people saw that he was passionate about what he was doing and this is a chance for Donald Trump to do the same thing.

TAPPER: But, Amanda, it seems quite obvious that a lot of Republicans think it's over. You see the defections coming. You see people -- Republican senators et cetera leaving in droves. Rudy Giuliani the only one willing to go out to defend him this morning. Chris Christie and Kellyanne Conway would not do so.

Do you think a strong, contrite performance the way our friend Andre who is a gentleman just delivered, do you think that could turn things around or no?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a matter of mitigating the damage at this point.

Listen, the GOP will suffer for doing the right thing and also doing the wrong thing. The suffering is coming. Only one way leads to healing.

I think a lot of Republicans are hoping Donald Trump will maybe melt down on stage and then they can declare that the wicked witch had died and then vanquished, no. The party has to fix this. The only way of maintaining any credibility against Hillary Clinton on the ticket even if she's president is to distance yourself from Donald Trump.

He is not going to withdraw. He is never withdrawing throughout the entire primary process. Someone has to take control. The RNC should be holding meetings. It's nice that people are issuing statements. There's no action there. If they want to have credibility, they have to be going through -- be willing to go through the pain of doing the right thing or it's just only going to get worse from here.

TAPPER: Here is the thing as Andre alluded to, there's more coming. And over the weekend, in fact, our team K-File here at CNN, Andrew Kaczynski, going through old Howard Stern tapes found some stuff about Donald Trump talking about his daughter Ivanka from 2004/2006. Let's roll that tape.


HOWARD STERN, HOST, THE HOWARD STERN SHOW: Did your daughter get breast implants?


STERN: She looks more voluptuous than ever.

TRUMP: No, she didn't them.

STERN: And she got thinner.

TRUMP: She's actually always been very voluptuous.


My daughter is beautiful. Ivanka she's --

STERN: By the way, your daughter --

TRUMP: She's beautiful.

STERN: Can I say this a piece of ass.



TAPPER: Patti, I mean, what?


TAPPER: I mean, the thing is like -- like dads and moms and daughters across America are going like --

DOYLE: And sons. Let's not forget the sons. This is repulsive to everyone. It is not gender neutral. I mean, this is not gender neutral.

I want to talk to what Andre said. He could very well have a very strong performance tonight but it's doubtful. I mean, he has blown two opportunities to apologize for this. Blown them twice. One with the written statement where he, you know, likened it to locker room banter and then one in a video where he looked like he was being held hostage, you know, forced to apologize. There was no contrition. There was no remorse. And whether or not he survives this, maybe -- but I don't think there's enough time, Jake. There's more and more stories coming out. People are voting as we speak.

TAPPER: Right.

DOYLE: I don't think there's enough time to overcome this (INAUDIBLE).

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, this is a shocking kind of moment I think for the country but I want to say a couple things.

First of all, this is the law and order candidate. Let's not forget, this is Mister Law and Order who is now on tape confessing to a crime. He's confessing to sexual assault. This isn't locker room talk. The problem isn't the talk, the problem isn't the bad word, the problem is the bad deeds.

He's saying that he feels he has the right as a star to sexually assault women. Now, the irony here is this for me -- this man came on to the scene politically in New York city attacking five innocent black boys accusing them of what -- sexual assault. That was the central part of -- that's right, I'm sticking up for my country. That's right. He comes on the scene. He says these five boys committed sexually assault. They were innocent. He never apologized.

Then he comes on the scene and says, Mexican immigrants, are what? Rapist, sexual assaulters. And it turns out that the sexual assaulter, the super predator is the man running for president. We have a super predator running for president and his name is Donald Trump.

And I want to challenge the media now, put up the pictures of those five young innocent black boys and Donald Trump and ask America who is the thug here? Who is the thug? It's Donald Trump.

CARPENTER: Here's the thing. I expect Bill Clinton to be brought up tonight because Donald Trump is very desperate at this moment in time. And it makes me sad to see a lot of Trump's defenders -- I mean, this election has been watching invasion of the political body snatchers. People I have known and respected have gone down a very ugly road.


CARPENTER: They still have a chance to do the right thing. But if you're going to bring up Bill Clinton, there is a standard and the standard is that Republicans impeached him and tried to remove him for his transgressions. If you don't try to remove Donald Trump too, you have lost your morals.

TAPPER: Well, here is the thing also, we know that Donald Trump retweeted Juanita Broaddrick who accused President Clinton of having raped her in the 1970s. She accused him in 1999 of having done that.


TAPPER: Including Juanita Broaddrick tweeting, "How many times must it be said? Actions speak louder than said. DT said bad things. HRC threatened me after BC raped me."

What is the way to respond do you think, Patti?

DOYLE: Look, I don't think she's going to take the -- I don't think she's going to go there. I don't think she's going to respond directly to that.

Look, Jake, I'm not going to sit here and defend Bill Clinton's infidelities of the 1990's. They're indefensible.

TAPPER: Well, that's -- this was a rape also. I mean, the accusations any way. It's not infidelity.

DOYLE: Yes. But Bill Clinton is not on the ballot. He's not on the ballot. And Hillary Clinton was one who was cheated on. She was the victim. She was the one who was betrayed.

TAPPER: Well, I think Juanita Broaddrick would say she was the victim if this happened not --

DOYLE: We don't know what happened. It was never proven that it happened. But Bill Clinton is not on the ballot. And to try and blame the wife for the sins of the husband, for me for a lot of women out there, it's its own for of sexism. And I just don't think that kind of strategy is going to work particularly when you're trying to get women to vote for you.

TAPPER: All right. We're going to take a quick break. We still have a lot more to talk about with mounting calls for Donald Trump to drop out. Is the Republican Party scrambling for an alternative? Is that even possible? Who might the alternative be? Stay with us.




CECILY STRONG, ACTRESS: You must admit, this is bad for you.

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: The only person I need is my running mate Mike Pence. I love Mike Pence. I respect Pence. I'll always have Pence.

STRONG: Well actually today he said he can't condone your remarks and then he cancelled his campaign events.

BALDWIN: Mike Pence is a loser.


BALDWIN: I hate his guts. I call him puny Pence.


TAPPER: That was "Saturday Night Live" last night, a joke of course, but there are some very really defections going on. There are 16 U.S. Republicans who say they cannot support Donald Trump or that he should reconsider even running. The panel is back with me.

Amanda, 16 senators, take a listen to Senator Mike Lee, who to be honest has never been a big Trump supporter, but this is pretty surprising.


SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: You, sir, are the distraction. Your conduct, sir, is the distraction. Step aside. Step down. Allow someone else to carry the banner of these principles.



TAPPER: Trump says, Amanda, that he will never quit. Is there anyone in this inner circle that could even broach a subject like that with him, do you think?

CARPENTER: I don't think so because he likes to surround himself with the yes men.

I mean, look at the people who are defending him today. Rudy Giuliani is the only one. Do you think he is actually saying, you should consider dropping out? If you want to talk about Mike Lee you remember him from convention, free the delegates, vote your conscience. He was fighting that fight and it was an amazing thing.

And there has been a lot of talk this election about beating back the rigged system, the rich and the powerful. The convention was rigged for Donald Trump by the party. Those people need to be held accountable and those people aren't showing up on set today. They won't defend what they did and how it was wrong and they should be held accountable for it.

They can turn it around. There is a system that they could vacate the nominee. It's complex, but they need to have those meetings. The fact that people think they can run and hide and cower in the sand from this question is reprehensible.

TAPPER: The RNC rules are one thing but then there's the state by state ballots and getting on the ballots and the fact is that that is almost impossible if not impossible. People are already voting.

CARPENTER: The people on the ballot are indicative of the party's preference. They could hold a meeting and change their preference. You cannot change the ballot per se. It's essentially shorthand bait and switch but they would have to do it.

(CROSSTALK) CARPENTER: It would be very controversial but they should be talking about it. If they recognize that Donald Trump is talking about sexual assault and criminal activity.

JONES: Can I say something? What you just described is a full employment program for every election lawyer in the country. There would be a blizzard of law suits. Every single person who voted for Trump then had their vote switched against their will to Pence, everybody who -- so you're basically saying because your party nominated this person, the entire country has to be plunged into chaos.

I think you should not be allowed to have a late term abortion of your candidate. You are late in the term. You have to go ahead with this process.

CARPENTER: They should look at all options possible. This is a crisis.

BAUER: And again, I know the establishment is against him and the media is against him. But the folks like this that are out there, they are fed up. And if you did that, it would destroy the Republican Party.

There are too many people that came out in primaries, there are too many people that engaged in the process that would feel like they were stripped of their voice. Whether you like him or not, he was the nominee. And he is the nominee. And he's going to be on the ballot and it's down to two candidates. So who's going to be president?

And you would absolutely send the Republican Party back three decades as to being ever able to get people to come out and engage in the process again.

DOYLE: I agree.


DOYLE: Yes. The party has made their bet. And now they have to lie (ph) in it. I'm sorry, Amanda, but it's true.

Look, the people behind us are supporting Trump and his steadfast supporters I believe will continue to support Donald Trump, but he needs more than his steadfast supporters. He needs black people. He needs Hispanics. He needs women. And right now there is no chance he can get these people. I think this election is lost for him.

TAPPER: So, Amanda, let me ask you, do you think that these 16 Republican senators except for the ones who were already against Donald Trump like Mike Lee and a few others, do you think they are now opposed to him because they are so horrified by these remarks or do you think, oh my god, this is going to be a landslide for Clinton and we need to try to mitigate the disaster so that we don't lose the House and Senate?

CARPENTER: A little bit of both because they are political animals. But the thing that this video brought to light, you are forced -- if you haven't asked yourself constituents are going to ask you, was Donald Trump talking about sexual assault? Is that a crime? Will you enable that behavior because if you say I'm going to support him, I'm going to endorse him, you are complicit in what he is talking about.


JONES: Look, I want to take a bigger step back. This is a big moment and we're focused on it. But I want to take a bigger step back here.

How did we get here?


JONES: How did you get a Republican Party willing to nominate someone like this? Let's not forget that you have a failure on the part of the Republican leadership on the one hand but we can argue about what that was. I would argue as a Democrat, President Obama put forward completely moderate proposals. He put forward proposals of Obamacare was Romneycare. Cap and Trade was for the Heritage Foundation. The American Jobs Act was tax cuts for small businesses, things that Republicans found acceptable until he got there.

We've had eight years of complete obstruction from the Republican leadership all blaming President Obama when he was trying to do moderate things and calling that socialism. So you now create a situation where you've sown the seed for extremism inside your own party and now you're reaping those truths.

BAUER: It's not just the Republican Party like Van said. This is the Democrat Party, too. Because if Hillary hadn't stolen this, Bernie Sanders would be the nominee and two folks that ran against the establishment that are absolutely fed up with the system, people want drastic change because of what the United States Congress, Republicans and Democrats have done for too many years.

TAPPER: Andre Bauer, I'm sorry. That was all the time we have. It was a great panel, everyone. Thank you so much. Coming up, Donald Trump has mentioned Bill Clinton in both of his quote unquote apologies for his disgusting talk.


Will he bring Bill Clinton up tonight?



TAPPER: Welcome back to Washington University in St. Louis where Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump will face each other down tonight on CNN.

Trump fending off calls to quit the race and told "The Wall Street Journal" -- quote -- "I never ever give up.

So tonight will he pull his punches or will he try to land one? The debates are the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."


TAPPER (voice-over): Hillary Clinton has been excellent at getting Donald Trump to take the bait. To punch down when criticized by less powerful generally sympathetic real people, the Muslim Gold Star parents.


TRUMP: She had nothing to say. She probably maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say.

TAPPER: The Latina beauty queen.

TRUMP: She gained a massive amount of weight and it was a real problem.

TAPPER: One wondered who they will come up with next, a Jewish doctor, an African-American cop, a disabled journalist -- oh, wait.

TRUMP: I don't know what I said. I don't remember.

TAPPER: Then of course the question, how will Donald Trump respond post-debate? Will campaign manager Kellyanne Conway confiscate his smartphone? Have a great debate, and post-debate, everyone.


TAPPER: Stay with CNN throughout the day as we get ready for tonight's debate. Special coverage begins at 4:00 p.m. tonight for the second match-up between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Thanks for watching. I'll be back at 4:00 p.m. Eastern today for a special edition of "THE LEAD." I'm Jake Tapper in St. Louis.