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State of the Union

Interview With House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi; Interview With Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani; New WikiLeaks Revelations; Donald Trump Denies Sexual Harassment Charges; Bob Dylan's Literature In this Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 16, 2016 - 09:00   ET




JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Avalanche.

One woman...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just put his hand up my skirt.

TAPPER: ... after another...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He began thrusting his genitals.

TAPPER: ... after another...

JESSICA LEEDS, TRUMP ACCUSER: He was grabbing my breasts.

TAPPER: ... accusing Donald Trump of sexual aggression.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These claims all fabricated. They are pure fiction and they are outright lies.

TAPPER: Are more charges to come?

Plus, conspiracy claims.

TRUMP: The election is rigged, rigged like you have never seen before.

What will Trump tell his supporters to do if he loses? Top Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani will be here live.

And friends of Bill.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nobody ever got anything from the State Department because they supported the Clinton Foundation.

TAPPER: But hacked and stolen e-mails show big Clinton Foundation donors seeming to get preferential treatment from the Clinton State Department, plus, a never-reported million dollar donation from a foreign government. How will Hillary Clinton explain the latest WikiLeaks revelations?

Plus, the best political minds will be here with insights from the campaign trail.


TAPPER: Nancy Pelosi

Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is eagerly awaiting to hear from you. We're just three weeks and two days away from Election Day.

How are you guys and gals going to vote? A new poll out this morning shows Hillary Clinton four points ahead of Donald Trump with just three weeks until Election Day. The ABC News/"Washington Post" poll shows Clinton at 47 percent, with Trump at 43 percent, Gary Johnson at five and Jill Stein at 2.

What effect did that leaked tape of Trump bragging about grabbing women have on the race? Sixty-three percent of voters say no effect. But after the platoon of women this week who came forward to say Trump groped them or forcibly kissed them, 68 percent of you say you do think Trump has made unwanted advances.

So, despite a whirlwind week on the campaign trail, not much has changed for voters. Could the final presidential debate on Wednesday move the needle at all?

Here with me to talk about it is House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi.

Leader Pelosi, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.


TAPPER: So, for the past 10 days, Donald Trump has been engulfed in this controversy about this 2005 "Access Hollywood" tape in which he seemed to boast sexually assaulting women. And yet, according to this morning's poll, Hillary Clinton is only four points ahead. And "The Washington Post" reports it only had a minimal impact on his overall support.

Are you surprised that the tape has barely moved the needle?

PELOSI: Well, I think what you hear that people say it has a minimal effect on their vote, it means they want to know about things that affect them.

What's on the ballot are his name and Hillary Clinton's name. But what's also on the ballot is Medicare. Medicare, we have a Republican Congress that would remove the guarantee of Medicare. Family planning, we have a Republican Congress that would defund contraception, family planning, et cetera.

Education, a budget on -- of the Republicans that would cut $185 billion from education, Pell Grants, et cetera, and we give tax breaks to the wealthiest people. So, that's really what the election should be about, about the economy.

I always say to my colleagues, show me your values, show me your budget. And if you have a budget that favors the rich, does not invest in education in a proper way, which does reduce the deficit, by the way -- nothing reduces the deficit more than education of the American people.

And then they want small government, except when it comes to your personal -- your personal life. So, they have a budget that is not a statement of our values, that we have a big contrast with, and that's what should be the subject. That does affect people.

If you're a senior or if you have a senior in your family, you do want Medicare to be a guarantee.

TAPPER: So, speaking of values, there's obviously been a lot of talk in the last week or so about sexual assault, sexual harassment.

PELOSI: Right.

TAPPER: And it was pointed out in a story in "The New York Times" today that here you have the first major party woman presidential nominee, and she's been relatively silent. And one of the reasons might be because of previous charges against Bill Clinton.

Vice President Biden was asked about this and about former President Bill Clinton's conduct. And this is what Biden had to say.


JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, I can't make an excuse for Bill Clinton's conduct. And I wouldn't attempt to make an excuse for the conduct. But he paid a price for it. He paid a price. He was impeached.


TAPPER: Now, we should point out that Joe Biden as a senator and Democrats voted against impeaching Bill Clinton.

PELOSI: That's right.

TAPPER: Make the case to the skeptical voter out there who believes all of the charges, the charges from the women against Donald Trump and the charges of the women against Bill Clinton, as to why there isn't a double standard when it comes to charges against Bill Clinton vs. Trump?


PELOSI: Well, it is a double standard. Bill Clinton is not on the ballot. He's not on the ballot. Hillary Clinton is the candidate for president that we are asking people to vote for, not because she's a woman and not because her husband was president and all the good things he did as well, but because she's the best person to be president of the United States, one of the best qualified in the history of our country.

But I'm curiously watching the behavior of Donald Trump, because he's always projecting. When his -- he knows that his temperament is not going over very well, he said: I have the temperament for the job.

When he knows that his stamina is lagging he says: I have the -- I have the stamina for the job.

TAPPER: Stamina.

PELOSI: When he knows that he has exposure in terms of women, he projects onto Bill Clinton.

When he knows that -- I don't know what this drug thing is, but I'm very suspicious that he is saying, she should take a drug test. What's he talking about there?

And when he says she's engaged in an international conspiracy, whatever he's describing it as, his own people -- people describe,it's his advisers are admitting to having back-channel conversations with the Russians. So, I think that every time he says something, you have to look to his vulnerability on those scores.

But let's get to what really matters to the American people, what really matters, forgetting politics, forgetting Democrats and Republicans. This is the election for the president of the United States, the biggest political event in the world. The world is watching. And we're engaged in these conversations not about policies that make a difference in people's lives, so they can clearly vote in their interest, and not in a way that honors the vision of our founders about this great democracy.

TAPPER: Well, let's talk about issues.

Hillary Clinton campaigned this week with former Vice President Al Gore in Florida, hoping to appeal to voters who care a great deal about the environment and about climate change.

But we now know from a hacked e-mail from WikiLeaks that in a private meeting with labor unions, Hillary Clinton appears to have said this in a meeting with labor unions about environmental activists, Hillary Clinton -- quote -- "They come to my rallies and they yell at me. And you know all the rest of it. They say, will you promise never to take any fossil fuels out of the earth ever again? No, I won't promise that. Get a life, you know?"

I mean, I think this is one of the reasons why there have been enthusiasm issues with Hillary Clinton is that, "Get a life, you know," that's kind of a harsh statement to say to environmentalists.

PELOSI: Well, again, I -- when I was speaker, my flagship issue was climate and energy dependence.

TAPPER: Right. PELOSI: And so the fact is, is, you cannot go to a place where you

say we're never taking another fossil fuel out of it, although we would like to, with renewables, get to a place like that. But there are plenty of uses for fossil fuels that have nothing to do with degrading the environment.

TAPPER: Right, but you don't talk that way. You don't. And even behind closed doors, I would have a tough time imagining you saying about environmentalists, get a life.

PELOSI: But the point is, is not this. The point is not, should we take fossil fuels out of the earth?

The point is this. The Republicans have been in total denial about climate -- the climate crisis that we're facing, total denial. For decades, they have opposed any enforcement or even study of the Kyoto agreement, to go back to the '90s, Montreal agreement and the rest of that. They are in denial of science and fact in relation to many things, including the issue of climate change.

So, I think that, if you want to talk about a contrast on these things, it's -- I think it's stunning that the Republican Party, a party that made great contributions to the environmental protection of our country, some great environmentalists, starting with Teddy Roosevelt, and now we have a Republican Party that rejects all science, fact and data.

TAPPER: So, that's the argument you would make to an environmentalist who comes to your office and says, I'm concerned that Hillary Clinton is saying get a life behind -- about us behind closed doors?

PELOSI: Well, in other words, I am progressive Democrat in the Congress. Now, I'm never good enough for the far left. And so, you know, I understand that.

But that is their role. They are advocates. And they must be relentless, persistent and dissatisfied. That plays an important role for our country. And, as leaders, we have to make decisions hopefully that are sustainable with the boldest common denominator, not the least, but the boldest common denominator.

We have a responsibility to future generations to protect this planet. It's a moral issue. That's why environment -- evangelicals work with us. They believe, as I do, that this is God's creation, and we have a moral responsibility to preserve it.

It's an economic issue to keep America number one with green -- new green technologies. It's a national security issue to -- well, we have had the generals testify over and over again the impact of climate change throughout the world being a national security issue, and, as I say, a health issue in terms of clean air, clean water for our children to breathe.


So, there's every reason to try to find common ground, especially with the party that led the way on environmental issues.

TAPPER: Last question, Leader Pelosi.

I don't know any polling expert who thinks that the Democrats are going to be able to recapture the House, but you are more bullish, I think.

PELOSI: Yes, I -- well, I believe that we would if the election were today. We would have a good chance to do so.

What I have said is, it depends on how big Hillary Clinton's margin is, A; B, that the concern I have is big dark money coming in, fossil fuel money, Wall Street money, special interest money, dark, coming in, in a big way.

But we have -- we're very proud our chairman, Ben Ray Lujan. We have great candidates. We have a great message. We're mobilizing on the ground to own the ground. And what I have said is, I think it will be a single-digit difference. Either they will be a little ahead by some, we will be a little ahead by some, but it is definitely within reach.

TAPPER: All right, Leader Pelosi, thank you so much. We appreciate your coming in.

PELOSI: My pleasure. Thank you.

TAPPER: Trump's latest message? Don't trust anyone. Is he laying the groundwork for a disputed election? That story next.


TRUMP: We have only the illusion of democracy, but are in fact controlled by a small handful of global special interests rigging the system, and our system is rigged.




TAPPER: Welcome back.

The final face-off between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump comes on Wednesday.

Trump this weekend is calling for a very different kind of debate prep.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should take a drug test prior, because I don't know what's going on with her.

But, at the beginning of her last debate, she was all pumped up at the beginning. And, at the end, it was like, oh, take me down. She could barely reach her car.


TAPPER: Joining Trump as he prepares for the debate today is former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, thanks for coming back once again.



TAPPER: So, last time you were on this program, we talked about whether Donald Trump had ever groped women without their consent, the way he described doing so on the "Access Hollywood" tape.

This -- this is a snippet of our conversation there.


TAPPER: Who did he do that to?

GIULIANI: Well, first of all, I don't know that he did it to anyone. This is talk.


TAPPER: So, that was -- that was Sunday morning.

Since you and I had that conversation, nine women have come forward and said, effectively: Yes, Donald Trump either kissed me or touched me sexually without my consent.

Their names are Jessica Leeds and Kristin Anderson...

GIULIANI: Right. Right.

TAPPER: ... Temple Taggart McDowell, Mindy McGillivray, Rachel Crooks, Cathy Heller, Natasha Stoynoff, Summer Zervos, and Cassandra Searles.

Mr. Mayor, do you believe every one of these women are lying?

GIULIANI: No, I believe my friend Donald Trump when he tells me he didn't do it.

I know Donald. I have been with him for 28 years. I have never seen him do anything like that. I haven't been able to focus on every single one of the things that they have said.

The one on the airplane, there's an independent witness who says it's not true. The involving the...

TAPPER: That guy who used to procure underage -- that former pimp guy you're talking about that...

GIULIANI: Well, look, you don't pick who the witnesses are to watch something.

I don't get to select who the witnesses are that are sitting around me. So far, no one has come forward to corroborate what she said. And this man has come forward on his own and said it's not true.

Second, one of them, I think it was a -- one of the contestants, was telling her cousin wonderful things about him up until the time he didn't go to her restaurant opening about three or four months ago. Then she turned on him and became very bitter. And he doesn't believe it's true.

TAPPER: So, you think the nine women are lying. You believe Donald Trump.

GIULIANI: I would not say it that way. I believe Donald Trump. I don't know about the nine women. I haven't studied the case.

I'm a lawyer. I would have to study each case to tell you -- to tell you about. I'm going to engage in Clinton-type conduct and attack them. I'm just telling you that I believe he's telling the truth.

TAPPER: What...

GIULIANI: I do not believe -- some of these things appear to me on their face to be kind of untrue.


GIULIANI: Fifteen minutes of groping in a first-class cabin of an airplane, it doesn't make sense. I have been in first class a lot, fortunately. Since I stopped being mayor, I can afford first class.

I have -- you see everything that goes on in first class.

TAPPER: So, Donald Trump -- you just kind of alluded to the fact that Donald Trump has condemned the Clintons for attacking Bill Clinton's accusers, the women who accused Bill Clinton of misconduct. You're kind of refraining from doing so, even though you're questioning some of these accounts.

But Donald Trump is out there on stages calling them liars and actually, in some instances, attacking how attractive they are, basically suggesting that they are not attractive enough for him to ever kiss or grope without consent.

For those voters out there, Mr. Mayor, who are inclined to believe all of these women, all nine of Trump's charge -- of Trump's accusers and Bill Clinton's accusers, and just say, you know what, I believe all these women, how are they supposed to reconcile this, given the fact that, empirically, Trump is attacking these women much, much more so than the Clintons ever did?

GIULIANI: No, that's not true.

TAPPER: Sure, it is.

GIULIANI: Oh, it is not. The bimbo squad.


TAPPER: Donald Trump is out there giving speeches attacking them, calling them liars and saying that they are not good-looking enough.


GIULIANI: I really don't want to dispute this with you. I mean, the four women who I met with told me that Hillary Clinton was engaged in all kinds of attacks on them both public and private.

But, in any event, should we be beyond that now? Should we be beyond Donald Trump's past and Hillary Clinton's past? And should we be talking about who is going to raise taxes and lower taxes, who is going to deal with ISIS, who isn't, who created ISIS, what are we going to do in Somalia, where, obviously, we have a -- we have a -- we have a ground war going on in Somalia? Although the president says no boots on the ground, we have boots on the ground.


TAPPER: Yes, these are things that Donald Trump is not mentioning in his speeches at all.

Donald Trump's speeches, as you know, are basically...


TAPPER: He goes out there and he attacks the women who are accusing him.

And, by the way, when you talk about shouldn't we be over this, Donald Trump -- the women that you have just referred to, the three who accuse Bill Clinton of sexual assault or worse and the woman who Hillary Clinton was a court-appointed attorney to represent her rapist, those four women, Donald Trump brought them to the Republican debate.

It's not the media making sexual assault this issue. Donald Trump is the one making sexual assault an issue.

GIULIANI: They asked to go. They asked to come.

But the reality is, can we get off it? Do we have to take the bait? I mean, why don't -- the fact is, I was with Donald Trump all day yesterday. He mentioned the women for about two or three minutes. And then talked about trade. In Maine, he talked about preserving their forestland. In New Hampshire, he talked -- obviously, in New Hampshire, you're going to talk a lot about taxes, live free or die, state of New Hampshire.

He talked about how he's going to reduce taxes to 33, 25 and 15 percent. She's going to raise taxes to 45 percent. If I become president, there will be more money in your pocket. If she becomes president, she is going to take the money out of your pocket, and she's going to do an expanded Obamacare.

He pointed out that, in WikiLeaks, she's told us what we have always known, that she prefers socialized medicine. I find WikiLeaks very refreshing. This is the Hillary Clinton I always knew existed. I just never had proof of it.

People would say to me, she's a socialist, and I would say, OK, but you can't prove it. Well, she was in Canada. She was talking to the Canadian bank or whatever. She says, I like your system, your socialized system of medicine a lot better than ours.

So, or, I say something private that's different than something public. I have always known she was a liar, and over and over and over again a phony.

So, those things are things that are being concentrated on also, not just -- not just these women.

TAPPER: Right. And we have been covering the WikiLeaks. I understand what -- I under...

GIULIANI: I know you have. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just explaining to you...

TAPPER: Donald Trump is talking...


GIULIANI: ... when Donald -- when Donald -- when Donald Trump gives a speech, he goes over what he wants to do with the Second -- he's in favor of the Second Amendment. She's against the Second Amendment.

TAPPER: I got it.

GIULIANI: He goes through all that, gives a long explanation.

TAPPER: Sure. I understand that.

Let me bring up something that Donald Trump is bringing up on the stump all the time. First of all, I mean, I think you would agree with the premise that our form of government has been strong because politicians accept the outcomes of elections, especially the most notable example in recent history with then Vice President Al Gore conceding after the very intense Florida recount.

I want you to take a look at what a Trump supporter, Dan Bowman of Ohio, told "The Boston Globe" -- quote -- "If she's in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot." He's a 50- year-old contractor. "There's going to be a lot of bloodshed, but that's what it's going take. I would do whatever I can for my country."

There are a lot of Republican officials who are very concerned about Donald Trump constantly saying that the system is rigged, saying that if he loses a state...


TAPPER: ... such as Pennsylvania, it's only because it will be stolen. And now we have a Trump supporter calling for bloodshed.

Are you not concerned at all about the tone and tenor of these remarks?

GIULIANI: Well, I have -- I have dealt with wacky jerks on my side and against me for too long to blame it on -- to blame it on the candidate.

You can find just as many wacko nuts on her side that write us horrible and awful things. So, when he talks about a rigged election, he's not talking about the fact that it's going to be rigged at the polls. What he's talking about is that 80 percent to 85 percent of the media is against him, that when you look at "The New York Times," when you pick it up every morning, on the top of the paper, there are three stories that are anti-Trump, some of them totally baseless, some of some silly.

And then, at the bottom, you get a little something about WikiLeaks or...

TAPPER: Well...

GIULIANI: Same thing with "The Washington Post." I mean, they're way out of control, "The Daily News," clown outfits of Donald Trump.

TAPPER: OK. But, Mr. Mayor, I understand that that's...


GIULIANI: And you know that. Please, let me finish. You let Nancy Pelosi go on for like two, three minutes without interrupting her.

Now, the reality -- the reality is that he makes it clear. He points right at you, at the press. He makes it clear who he thinks is rigging the election.

TAPPER: Then why does he call for people to go to elections -- to go to polling places to be election monitors?


TAPPER: Why does he say, if I lose Pennsylvania, it will be because that it's stolen, Pennsylvania, a state that hasn't gone Republican since 1988?


GIULIANI: There are -- there are -- there are a few places, and not many in the swing states, there are a few places where they have been notorious for stealing votes, Pennsylvania, Chicago. There have been places where a lot of cheating has gone on over the years.

I know that from my own knowledge of bussing people in from Camden. When I ran for mayor of New York City the first time, some people voted eight and 10 times. And the second time, I had -- I had firefighters and police officers outside checking on the buses, so we take down the number of the bus. The bus had voted 10 times. And then we wouldn't let the bus vote again.


TAPPER: So, you're...

GIULIANI: And when I asked Randy Levine, who is now the president of the Yankees, who did this for me, I said, how much of the cheating did we stop, he said, I think we stopped about 75 percent of it. We're still going to have to give them about 25,000 votes.


GIULIANI: I'm sorry. Dead people generally vote for Democrats, rather than Republicans.

TAPPER: So, he's not talking about elections being stolen, except, in some cases, when he is talking about elections being stolen.

GIULIANI: Yes, I would be talking -- you want me -- to tell me that I think the election in Philadelphia and Chicago is going to be fair, I would have to be a moron to say that.

I would have to dislearn everything I learned in 40 years of being a politician.

TAPPER: The Republican Party of Philadelphia would disagree with you.

They looked into the allegations from 2012, and they said that there was nothing irregular with what happened there.

GIULIANI: Well, maybe...

TAPPER: Yes, there are areas where people only voted for Obama, just like in Utah there are places that only voted for Mitt Romney.

GIULIANI: Maybe, maybe, maybe there are situations in which it's right.

I don't -- I remember a case when I was associate attorney general where 720 dead people voted in Chicago in the 1982 election. I remember, in my own election, about 60 dead people voted. So, I can't sit here and tell you that they don't cheat.

And I know because they control the polling places in these areas. There are no Republicans, that it's very hard to get people there who will challenge votes.

So, what they do is, they leave dead people on the rolls, and then they pay people to vote those dead people four, five, six, seven, eight, nine times.

(CROSSTALK) TAPPER: It's -- I have to -- we have to go, Mr. Mayor.

But just to put a button on this, it sounds as though you are saying that Trump is serious when he says that the election is going to be stolen.


GIULIANI: No, I'm not saying that.

TAPPER: You just laid out a whole case about how Democrats steal elections.

GIULIANI: Look, if she wins Illinois by 8 percent or he wins Illinois by 8 percent, then that cheating is going to make any difference.

If he wins Pennsylvania by 5, or she wins by 5, it will make no difference. If it's a one- or two-point race, it could make a difference in a few places. Not going to make a difference in Indiana. Not going to make a difference in North Carolina. Not going to make a difference in some -- a lot of other places, where they don't have this traditional cheating.


TAPPER: That's not an affirmation of the way our elections are held in this country. But we -- I'm sorry.

GIULIANI: Well, we do cheat. We have people who cheat in elections.


TAPPER: You're saying only Democrats, only Democrats cheat?

GIULIANI: I have found very few situations where Republicans cheat.

They don't control the inner cities, the way Democrats do. Maybe if Republicans controlled the inner cities, they would do as much cheating as Democrats. I think Republicans...

TAPPER: I think there are a lot of elections experts that would have very, very strong disagreements with you.

GIULIANI: Well, then they -- they never prosecuted election fraud.

TAPPER: All right, Mr. Mayor thank you so much. Appreciate it.

GIULIANI: Thank you.

TAPPER: Trump is fighting back, as his accusers pile up, with a ninth woman coming forward this weekend. Are there more to come? That's next.


[09:32:23] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When you looked at that horrible woman last night you said, I don't think so. She would not be my first choice that I can tell you. Man. You don't know. That would not be my first choice.


TAPPER: Donald Trump saying at least one of the women coming out against him isn't attractive enough for him to have groped on an airplane. Nine women have now accused the Republican nominee of unwanted touching or kissing since a leaked tape revealed him talking about grabbing women. Are more to come? Does it matter to voters?

Joining me now Paul Begala, CNN commentator and senior adviser to Hillary Clinton, pro-Clinton super PAC. Republican Congresswoman Renee Ellmers of North Carolina. Alice Stewart, CNN political commentator and former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. And Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter.

Let me start with you, congresswoman. I guess the point of saying that these women are not telling the truth and these charges are false is one thing. Saying, look at her. There's no way I would ever grope someone that looked like that. I mean I'm guessing that that's not what you would recommend to him.

REP. RENEE ELLMERS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: No, absolutely not. And, you know, first I'll just say tissue of groping when we're talking about this issue, this is sexual assault. So we're accusing a man of sexual assault here. And I'm not going to debate who is telling the truth but it is a she said/he said situation. What I will say is --

TAPPER: Just to correct you. She said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said situation.

ELLMERS: Well, let's be fair. We have the same situation with the Clintons both with Bill Clinton of course and then of Hillary Clinton defending and attacking those women as well.

You know what? Let's move on. If we're going to talk about the issues that affect women in this country let's talk about the fact that there are 2 million more women who are in poverty today than when Barack Obama took office, 3.5 million more people all together.

Let's talk about the issues that affect women. Let's talk about health care for women. Let's talk about how poverty plays a role in cardiovascular disease which is the number one killer of women and is also the most for women of color. Let's talk about the real issues moving forward and let's move on.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, we would like to talk about the real issues moving forward. It's not as if Hillary Clinton began this debate.

In fact if you remember just last week at the Republican debate you had a quote-unquote -- "press conference" where Donald Trump trotted out the alleged excusers of Bill Clinton and sat there and wanted to talk about it. And it's as if we have to believe Bill Clinton's accusers when they say something but not believe the accusers of Donald Trump. That's first.

And second, Hillary Clinton -- I mean, the audacity of some people to tell Hillary Clinton how she should treat the women with whom her husband cheated with I think is just beyond the pale.


Hillary Clinton is on the ballot not Bill Clinton. We will have a discussion and Democrats will have discussion with you all day long about women's rights, about reproductive rights. Let's get there. But it's really hard to get there when we're having this discussion that Donald Trump keeps digging the hole for.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENATOR: I think it's also important too as you say Bill Clinton is not on the ballot. And even as a Republican it's difficult to grasp the reality of the fact we have the "Access Hollywood" tape where Trump is bragging about doing despicable things to women and then followed what I view credible living breathing examples of exactly what he's talking about.

So it's difficult to accept his denials in that and it's just not defensible. If I were advising him, I would say, look, get off this topic this is not a winning topic. Go back to what helped you get the Republican nomination. Talk about your plans. He has a good plan for jobs and the economy. Talk about those issues and drive that. Don't continue to talk about this other topic. It's not a winning -- for either one of them.

TAPPER: You're still going to vote for Donald -- you're still planning on voting for Donald Trump?

STEWART: I'm a Republican. I'm going to support the Republican nominee (ph) --

TAPPER: And it looks as though -- let's just show this tape. I mean this graphic in this new poll. Do Trump's comments on this tape make you more or less likely to vote for him?

No difference 63 percent. Less likely 35 percent. More likely one percent. And no opinion one percent.

I guess, they polled Jared (ph) Fogle in prison.


Paul -- but what's your reaction to that?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a couple of things. First, 68 percent of the same poll, this is the "ABC News/Washington Post" poll, 68 percent say that in fact they believe that Mr. Trump made unwanted sexual advances. I think for the reason Alice states. The most damning witness here is Donald Trump who said he did these things and now accounts have come forward with contemporaneous corroboration --


TAPPER: But, Paul, let me ask you this. I mean, the fact is -- and this was this piece in "The New York Times" saying, the first major party woman nominee is pretty quiet on this and one cannot help but conclude that it's because she knows that there are credible charges against her husband.

BEGALA: Well, I would say stay tuned. She raised similar issues directly with Donald Trump in the first debate.

TAPPER: Correct.

BEGALA: She talked about Alicia Machado which was very different. It wasn't a sexual advance. I want to be clear. But he was mocking a beauty queen's weight which a lot of people found really offensive. So she did raise it in the first debate.

I expect you'll probably see some of this in the third debate. But the truth is -- Napoleon said, never interrupt your opponent when he's destroying himself. First I wouldn't want her to -- I don't advice her you know (INAUDIBLE) super PAC. I wouldn't want her to jump in the middle of this because this gives partisans on the Republican side who are falling off a place to hang on if Hillary's in the story.

TAPPER: What (ph) about (ph) Bill -- right.

BEGALA: And there's no better advocate for Hillary on these issues than Michelle Obama. I think a hundred years from now -- I think Hillary will win and that would be a big deal in the history books, the first woman president. Michelle Obama's speech will be one of the things people study 100 years from now. It's that powerful. And that's far better for Hillary than for her to run around personally and talk about it.

TAPPER: Congresswoman, let me just ask you removing the politics of this for a second.


TAPPER: What -- the issue of sexual assault and the issue of women coming forward, I have been surprised to hear from so many women friends and so many people in my family, yes, this happens all the time. Not as a commentator...


TAPPER: ... but just as a human being don't you think this is a moment for our country?

ELLMERS: As a woman, as a mother, I will tell you -- and as a nurse that over 60 percent of sexual assaults go unreported.

So that gets back to the issue here. Why now? I understand that these things happen. SELLERS: You're questioning the timing...


SELLERS: ... now?

ELLMERS: I'm not questioning what these women are saying but I do believe that we have due process in this country and three weeks before an election how can this man defend himself? So let's not pretend -- but you also said another comment that I found was interesting. You said women in this country -- their bodies and their reproductive rights. That is right out of the Democratic playbook. We as women care about every issue. It is not just about our bodies. It is not just about --

TAPPER: I will come to you first after the break, Bakari. Just stay there.

Coming up Hillary Clinton keeping a low profile as her campaign secrets are revealed by WikiLeaks. What will she say about them at the next debate? Stay with us.




TRUMP: And by the way, WikeLeaks just came out with lots of really unbelievable things. Just minutes ago. In fact, I almost delayed this speech by two hours. It's so interesting.


TAPPER: Donald Trump talking about the WikiLeaks' hack into Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta's private email server. Reuters is reporting the emails show the Qatari government appearing to pledge a million dollars to the Clinton Foundation while Hillary Clinton was still serving as secretary of state just despite Clinton's agreement that the foundation would not accept foreign government money without state department review beforehand.

The panel is back with us. Bakari, let me start with you. Doesn't Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton don't they owe an explanation at the very least on this seeming skirting of the rules?

SELLERS: Well, the first thing is when I read the Reuters article what it doesn't show is the Clinton Foundation actually got the million dollars. What it doesn't show is that there was any ethical breach. I mean, that is -- we're trying to make something out of nothing here.


All the email does show is that they wanted time with Bill Clinton and they wanted to present a check. We don't know what happened after that point.

So I think we're actually missing the larger issue here though. After we talk about what's in these emails people want to just legitimatize and normalize this emails. What we're talking about is a government -- an outside government, the Russian government attempting to undermine our democracy and would normalizing that. We're acting as if that is something that should happen in today's America and it should not.

We know that these hacks come from the Russian government. We know WikiLeaks is acting as a foreign agent but we're still normalizing it and it makes (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: Let me just ask you this, Alice, because the -- forgetting whether or not the Russians are trying to play a role in this and that is a serious issue. I don't want to belittle it. But aren't Republicans playing with fire here by accepting and applauding WikiLeaks because at some point they're going to run a WikiLeaks and the Russian hackers or whomever are going to run out of people to hack for Democrats and they're going to say, well, let's take a look what Rudy Giuliani has got going on.

And at that point it will be impossible for Republicans to say, wait a second these are stolen documents we can't give credence to them.

STEWART: Well, clearly. I mean, the source of it and the timing of it does indicate that Russians have a hand in this and that they are trying to influence the outcome of this election without a double. And, yes, I think embracing them too much is a risk for Republicans.

But at the end of the day I think what we have seen in these email leaks further confirms what we knew from other email there was evidence of pay for play and a conflict of interest between Hillary Clinton's secretary of state department and the Clinton Foundation. And this just goes to show that the Clinton Foundation should have been shut down while she was secretary of state and certainly should be shut down if she were to win. Because there are clearly conflicts seen in this latest email dump and as we've seen in the past.

TAPPER: I don't want to the end panel without talking a little bit about the charges about a rig election. We heard Mayor Giuliani basically saying if it's a close election in some states there will be questions about whether or not it was rigged lending credence to what Donald Trump is saying. You're from one of the battleground states, North Carolina, where it's likely going to be close, and it could be one or two points either way.

Do you have any concerns about Mayor Giuliani, Donald Trump, others calling into question election results?

ELLMERS: Well, I think we do have to look at this issue and we have to be vigilant. And I think that's what Donald Trump is saying. I think he is saying that especially in states that it's going to be close, be out there and aware of what is happening through the election. Look we can't deny fact that there's collusion happening here. You know, the WikiLeaks' emails, all of the scandals, the Department of Justice, the FBI, you go on and on and on and it's all starting to come out in these WikiLeaks' email leaks. And of course cyber security is so important. So that's another issue that we have to address.

But we cannot dismiss the fact that this is just a little bit too strange that all of this is happening at the same time and we're about to have this very, very important election.

BEGALA: Well, what's undermining our democracy is Russian influence. They play this game all around the world, right? They went into Europe. They go into other countries. They try to destabilize the Democratic system and that's what they are trying to do here.

And Rudy maybe unwittingly is feeding into the Russian's goal here to undermine faith in our democracy. Far better men than Rudy Giuliani or Donald Trump gave their lives for this democracy. And the notion that politicians like them for their own narrow interest and helping Putin's interest would undermine our faith in our democracy is despicable.

As a matter -- empirical data, the Brennan Center for Justice has looked at this voter fraud almost never ever occurs. The Bush Justice Department had a whole task force on this and I think they had like a dozen cases out of hundreds of millions voters. So in actual fact voters need to know this is the greatest democracy on the face of the earth and cleanest and it has been proven even by the Bush Justice Department.

And for Rudy and for Trump to undermine that is despicable (ph).

SELLERS: The Trump campaign and Trump supporters and something that the congressman just said, they are encouraging this behavior where we're going to go out and watch and be vigilant and see what happens.

And when you read some of the quotes that have been made by his supporters at his rallies it even gets to the point we're going to intimidate. We just want them to (INAUDIBLE). One guy said, I want to go out and I'm going to find all the Muslims and African-Americans and Hispanics and people who don't speak American and I don't want to do any harm to them.

TAPPER: That's a quote -- "speak American."

SELLERS: Yes. I just want to make them nervous. We've come too far in this country where we've intimidated the polls for this (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: We have to leave it there unfortunately. Great panel. Thank you one and all for being here.

Coming up, Bob Dylan, political pundit, how the new Nobel laureate's lyrics reflect the campaign.



TAPPER: Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize for literature this week, which got us wondering what the bard might have to say about this campaign or if he has already had some things to say. It's the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."


TAPPER (voice-over): Bob Dylan has never shied away from politics.

BOB DYLAN, ARTIST (singing): Come senators, congressman, please heed the call. Don't stand in the doorway, don't block up the hall.

TAPPER: But what can you say about politics this year? And a campaign in which the size of a candidate's -- um -- manhood was discussed on stage at a debate.

DYLAN: For the times they are a-changing.

TAPPER: Wind has been a favorite Dylan motif.

Blowing through songs from "Subterranean Homesick Blues" to "Idiot Wind."

A song that has lyrics Donald Trump might identify with.


DYLAN: Someone's got it in for me. They're planting stories in the press. Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out. When they will I can only guess.

TAPPER: Over in the halls of Congress, House Speaker Paul Ryan is trying to run from Trump.

DYLAN: How does it feel to be on your own with no direction home?

TAPPER: While Hillary Clinton's campaign claims they cannot authenticate whether emails exposing her politics tactics are authentic.

DYLAN: No, no, no it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe.

TAPPER: But perhaps the Dylan prose were most thinking about today have to do with how most Americans might be feeling at this point in the election.

DYLAN: It's not dark yet but it's getting there.


TAPPER: Thanks for watching. "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" is next.