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State of the Union

Interview With Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV); Interview With Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA); Interview With Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC); Interview With Gov. Jared Polis (D-CO). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 21, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:46]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Isolated. With President Biden sidelined by COVID, many in his party try to move on without him.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): The data does not show a path to victory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks back here want a new leader.

TAPPER: What does a key lawmaker who has worked closely with Biden for years think? Senator Joe Manchin joins me next.

And tough talk. A troubling new admission by the U.S. Secret Service after the assassination attempt on former President Trump. Congress investigates as Trump moves on from calls for unity.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Laughing Kamala, she's not as crazy as Nancy Pelosi.

TAPPER: House Speaker Mike Johnson is ahead.

Plus: Path to victory? As more Democrats envision a future without Biden, is there any consensus about how they would replace him?

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): People are talking about this without having two eyes wide open.

TAPPER: Close Biden ally congressman Jim Clyburn and then Democratic Governor Jared Polis coming up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is unsettled.

We begin this morning with urgent questions surrounding the 2024 presidential race, some for the U.S. Secret Service, reeling from serious security failure surrounding the attempted assassination of Donald Trump eight days ago.

The agency is finally acknowledging it did indeed deny requests by Trump's team for additional resources and personnel over the past two years, after initially claiming those charges were not true.

Said Trump's campaign manager, Chris LaCivita -- quote -- "They lied," this amid serious questions for President Joe Biden, who is wrapping up his medical isolation period after a COVID diagnosis, though his political isolation continues, as more than 30 Democratic lawmakers are now openly calling on him to step aside, given his political weakness and unanswered questions about his health and cognitive fitness.

President Biden says he's not going anywhere, announcing plans to campaign this week and meet with the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday.

Still, as many agitate to push him out of the race, it's not clear exactly how Democrats would pick his replacement or if a new candidate would definitely perform better.

Joining us now to discuss all of this, independent Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

Thank you so much for being here.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (I-WV): Thanks for having me, Jake.

TAPPER: So, should President Biden step aside or keep running?

MANCHIN: Well, Jake, I haven't said anything for three weeks, a little more than three weeks, since the debate.

And I thought the first week was needed for the president to evaluate, to talk to his family, his staff, and make some decisions. And I thought that might happen. And then I -- the next two weeks, I was saying, well, let's see what my colleagues who are in very difficult races, whether it's in the statewide race as a senator or in a district or as a congressperson.

They have been speaking out pretty loud and clear-thinking, and it has an effect on them. And then seeing the donors, which campaign finance is the mother's milk of campaigning. You know that. Makes it very challenging.

With all that being said, my prayers are with the health and well- being of my friend the president.

And I believe that he has a chance, an opportunity, to finish the five months of his presidency with the way he has always basically overseen his office, whether it be as senator or as president, wanting to be that uniter, bringing this together, being able to bring peace to the Middle East, being able to support Ukraine in their fight for freedom, and also being able to show the whole world how the transfer of power can be done by the superpower of the world in a most respectful way.

I'm hoping for that, because I think it'll leave him with a tremendous legacy as one of the greatest leaders that we have had.

And I say this, and I came to the decision with a heavy heart, that I think it's time to pass the torch to the new generation.

TAPPER: And how would that be done, do you think? Do you think...

MANCHIN: I'm very -- hopefully, Jake, that it would be done in an open process.

I think that we have a lot of talent on the bench, a lot of good people, and I'm partial to governors, because a governor can't afford to be partial. They can't afford to be partisan strictly, because that pothole or that bridge doesn't have a D or an R on it.

I have got two tremendous governors right next door to me, in Andy Beshear in Kentucky and Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, who are operating with legislatures evenly split or completely opposite of their party affiliation.

[09:05:03]

They haven't divided their state. They haven't made you pick a side and demonize the other side. They have brought people together. This is what an open process would do, I think. It would bring more people out in a process that could bring Democrats like me back.

TAPPER: So, obviously, you're calling for President Biden to stop running for reelection.

MANCHIN: I want him to be the president in the last five months of this presidency of his term to do what he can do is unite our country, to calm down the rhetoric, and be able to focus attention to peace in the world.

Campaigning -- I have been through statewide campaigns many times. It's an unbelievable challenge to anybody, to anybody, physically, mentally, every way, shape and form. And, right now, the country and the world needs our president, Joe Biden, with the compassion he's always had and the ability to bring people together, to use all of his forces and energy towards that.

TAPPER: Obviously, he's politically weak, and no president has ever been reelected with an approval rating as low as his.

There are other questions about him now, and this is sensitive, but we need to be realistic about what's going on, because Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts said that he's known President Biden for a long time, and that President Biden didn't seem to recognize him or know who he was at Normandy.

MANCHIN: Well, I was at Normandy too.

TAPPER: Yes.

MANCHIN: And I can tell you about President Biden. When he comes and he looks at me and he says, "Hey, Joe. Joe, how's it going?" I know we're in pretty good shape.

TAPPER: Yes. MANCHIN: When he looks at me and says, "Hey Joe, what's up?" I know he's a little upset, and we need to sit and talk. I have not had that problem whatsoever.

I think...

TAPPER: So you have not seen him have any cognitive issues with you?

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: I have not. I have not.

I know what you're seeing in the movements, and this and that, and the gait. But I'm telling you, that man has compassion in his heart. He has -- he's a patriot. And I think he can -- five months, he could help heal this nation. He could help bring the world together and show a better way, that we as a superpower can be looked upon around the world differently than what they might be looking at us now.

That takes a full-time 24/7 president, not being worried about where you got to go campaign, got to give a speech, got to go out and raise money, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

And I think his legacy will be one of the greatest legacies of any of our leaders.

TAPPER: You have known him for decades, though. Is he the same person now that he was 10 years ago?

MANCHIN: Well, none of us are the same person we were 10 years ago. You know, you lose -- you miss a step here and there. You forget a word or you forget a name of a person.

And -- but still yet, are you able to make the decision when it's brought to your attention? This is our problem. He knows the problems we have in the Middle East and how that can -- can amplify. He knows basically the challenges that Ukraine has right now and what they have been able to do, and, if they're able to be successful in Ukraine, what happens to our allies, our NATO allies.

He knows all the ramifications of not having world peace or having the superpower of the world be able to defend any country that has the love of freedom the way we do and be able to be with them.

TAPPER: You talk about the Democrats needing to have an open process. Does that mean an open convention? Does that mean a series of short primaries?

MANCHIN: I don't know the mechanics of that, because there's only three weeks to the convention. But I know, if it goes to the convention, everything changes.

And I think to have the talent that I spoke about and a lot of people out there -- and people keep talking about race and gender. It's not about race and gender. It's about positions. It's about basically who we are. I left the Democrat Party because it's not the Democratic Party I grew

up in, that I always knew.

TAPPER: Yes, for people who don't know, you left the Democratic Party, became an independent at the end of May.

MANCHIN: At the end of may. And here's why. I have come to the conclusion this.

I came from West Virginia, a little -- little coal mining community of Farmington, and my parents were lifelong Democrats and my -- and most of the people I knew. John Kennedy made a tremendous play through that in 1960 to win the election, to be president of the United States.

And I watched the excitement. And we are totally encapsulated in ask not what your country can do for you, what you can do for your country. And we're changing into a society, how much work can my country do for me?

That's not how I was raised. I was always fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. I never believed that government should be your provider. It should be your partner. And we always are willing to give people a helping hand, a hand up, not a continuous handout, make them dependent.

I'm -- we have lost that. And I think we need to bring that back. And that's the Democratic Party.

But let me explain what we're dealing with in the demographics; 51 percent of people registered to participate in elections are registered like me, as an independent, 51 percent. Only 25 percent are registered as Republican. Only 23 percent are registered as Democrats.

You can't win without the sensible, rational, moderated middle. They want sensible and moderation. They want that.

TAPPER: You would not run. You would not pursue if the -- if Joe Biden said he was not running for reelection, would you?

MANCHIN: No, I want to support a new generation.

TAPPER: A new generation.

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: A new generation.

TAPPER: Shapiro, Beshear?

MANCHIN: And I'm talking about people that I know have the ability, because they have shown their skill sets under fire.

TAPPER: Let me ask you a question. What was your response to the Republican Convention?

[09:10:00] MANCHIN: Well, I thought they put a magnificent show on for four days. I really did.

TAPPER: What about President Trump's speech?

MANCHIN: And everyone was looking for something different.

And the last hour of the convention showed that it hasn't changed. I'm as concerned today as I was that President Biden -- President Trump has not basically acknowledged that the insurrection was real, that they tried to overthrow our government. That was real.

He didn't accept the orderly transfer of power. And it's been more recounts than we have ever done in any other election, knowing that was valid, OK?

He's still attacking basically the rule of law and judicial system. And he gives no hope or faith whatsoever in our allies that we will be there for them. Those are considerations that I have that are very, very troubling.

And I would hope that other people would look at that too.

TAPPER: Let me ask you another question, because you're from Appalachia.

J.D. Vance, author of "Hillbilly Elegy," is the vice presidential nominee on the other side. Does he do a good job speaking to Manchin voters, Appalachian voters, West Virginians?

MANCHIN: I think he has enough of a flavor there in everything. I grew up in another era of Appalachia, but I can see it.

I have watched my state change like no other state. For 80 years, my state of West Virginia was a solid blue state. What happened? One of my colleagues asked me, Joe, what happened to the West Virginia Democrats? I says, nothing. They want to know what happened to the Washington Democrats.

Here's a little state of mine, West Virginia, who has done the heavy lifting in Appalachia. They mined the coal, made the steel, built the guns and ships, built the middle class, if you will. They're patriotic. They have shed more blood, lost more lives for the cause of freedom than any region of the country.

They have given everything that they have. And now, all of a sudden, we're not good enough, we're not smart enough, we're not green enough. My goodness, no one's given more than we have. Why did you leave them behind? That's what they believe.

So I told my friend, that's the problem. You can't leave anybody behind. And I will say this, that President Biden, he got that loud and clear, and he gave extra incentives. There's a lot of things that we have worked together on. And there's things that I disagree. And they know that, but we do it in a respectful way. Joe Biden has always been able to come to that middle. He's always

been able to make a deal. And that's who he is. And that's what this country needs, that's what the world needs in the next five months of his presidency.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat -- oh, sorry -- independent of West Virginia.

MANCHIN: Independent.

TAPPER: Independent of West Virginia.

MANCHIN: You know what? They need to win me back. They need to win me back.

TAPPER: I just have the muscle memory of saying, you know, Democrat of West Virginia. Independent of West Virginia.

Thank you so much for being here today.

MANCHIN: Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: Really appreciate it.

MANCHIN: Appreciate you.

TAPPER: A troubling new admission by the U.S. Secret Service. House Speaker Mike Johnson will join me after this quick break.

And coming up: Is one of the president's key allies still riding with Biden? Congressman Jim Clyburn is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:03]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Last night, former President Trump held his first campaign rally since last week's assassination attempt. He held this one indoors, as the agency sworn to protect him finally acknowledged that it had previously denied his team's request for more resources and personnel, only acknowledging after "The Washington Post" asked them some tough questions about it.

Joining us now is House Speaker Mike Johnson.

Speaker Johnson, the Secret Service is now acknowledging, after "The Washington Post," proved their initial statements false, the Secret Service's initial statements false, that they turned down requests for additional resources from the Trump team.

Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle is set to testify to the House Oversight Committee tomorrow. You have called for President Biden to fire her. You have also said you're going to set up a special task force tomorrow to investigate this. What do you want to know from Director Cheatle and what can you tell

us about the makeup of this task force?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Yes, thanks, Jake. Great to be with you.

The task force is important because we need precision. We need to act quickly. We need to get the answers and accountability for the American people. They deserve it. They are demanding it for good reason.

But people are concerned. This is unconscionable what we have seen out of this Secret Service. And this director has shown and proven in her public statements that she is not fit to lead that very important agency. We need the Secret Service to do one simple thing, protect our presidents and former presidents in these cases.

That's not happening. And the initial excuses that she has given for the lapses that happened last Saturday are just unbelievable. So we're going to get down to the bottom of it. This will be a bipartisan task force with subpoena authority to strike quickly, get right to the heart of the matter and get the answers, accountability, make sure this never happens again.

TAPPER: Equal numbers of House Democrats and House Republicans? Do you have ideas of which vice chair and chair you want to have for it?

JOHNSON: We will be laying out the details of the task force tomorrow, Monday, when we return to the Hill.

Right now, I'm heartened and thankful that our committees of jurisdiction have already begun the work. Director Cheatle will comply with the subpoena, she has said, and show up tomorrow in our House Oversight Committee. Jamie Comer will be leading that inquiry. And I think that will be must-see TV.

She's got a lot to answer for. And these concerns are bipartisan, Jake. I mean, the Democrats are just as concerned as the Republicans are about this, because the agency is not a partisan agency. The fact that they have denied and now had to admit, been forced to admit, as you noted, to deny that they didn't give additional resources at the request of the Trump campaign is something that, to us, is just beyond the pale.

TAPPER: So the U.S. Secret Service faced problems for years. In 2015, the Republican-run House Oversight Committee issued a scathing report.

And one of their conclusions was that agents and the agency were stretched too thin. The former chairman of that committee, Jason Chaffetz, said this week that he was disturbed that the U.S. Secret Service seems once again to have too few resources to do the job. And he said he doesn't think any of the recommendations he put forward in 2015 were implemented.

[09:20:00]

Now, I'm not absolving the U.S. Secret Service of responsibility or accountability, but does Congress need to provide the Secret Service with the resources that Congressman Chaffetz was talking about they needed almost 10 years ago?

JOHNSON: Well, we have added additional resources, even in the most recent appropriations to the Department of Homeland Security. But the buck stops there.

Secretary Mayorkas is in charge of that agency. If he needed to allocate more resources to the Secret Service, then that should have been done.

I had him on the phone last Saturday several hours after the failed assassination attempt on Donald Trump, and I asked him some very basic questions. Mayorkas at that time did not even know whether drones were used for security, I mean, some very basic things. I won't get into the details of it much this morning, but much of that will come out in the coming days.

The point is that they have not managed the agency well. And I -- the reason I called on President Biden to fire Director Cheatle is because the buck ultimately stops in the Oval Office. I mean, this is an executive branch agency. And they have got to take care of business over there. They haven't been doing that.

TAPPER: A number of members of the Republican Conference have been attacking the Secret Service for -- on gender reasons, blaming the -- quote -- "woke DEI policies" for the hiring not just of a female director, but of female Secret Service agents.

The Secret Service has called these attacks disparaging and disgusting, saying -- quote -- "It's an insult to the women of our agency to imply that they are unqualified based on gender."

I should note some of the loudest defenders of the female Secret Service agents are the members of the Trump family and even the Trump campaign, not defending Cheatle, but defending the women Secret Service agents.

What do you make of your Republican members attacking the Secret Service this way?

JOHNSON: I think the response that you have seen was to a video that has been circulated and widely circulated on the Internet and elsewhere where Director Cheatle said her top priority would be to diversify the work force in Secret Service.

No, ma'am, that is not your top priority. We want the most capable officers regardless of gender. Their job is protection, not diversity. And I think that that was such a frustrating thing for people to see, especially in light of the lapses that took place apparently last weekend.

So that's the backlash. There's a lot of frustration. And, Jake, it's not just Republicans. It's people across the board who just don't understand why this -- why these basic tasks could not be taken. Remember, Director Cheatle also said the reason no one was on that

roof that day was because of the slant of the roof and she was worried about the health and safety of her agents. I mean, that makes no sense to us whatsoever.

I have got my own security detail through Capitol Police. Those guys would go on a roof that was a 90 degree angle. I don't understand what her responses are initially. They don't make sense to people, and she has a lot to answer for.

TAPPER: President Biden is facing rising calls to exit the race. Democrats are looking into potential legal hurdles to replacing their nominee so late in the process.

Do you think that whoever emerges from the Democratic Convention as that party's nominee for president and vice president, do you think those people should be on the ballot in all 50 states? Or would you support efforts to sue to keep those nominees off state ballots, assuming it's not President Biden and Vice President Harris?

JOHNSON: Look, I'm a former litigator, a constitutional attorney. I just made note in some comments over the last week that they have real problems.

I mean, every state has their own election system. That's our constitutional system. That's the way it's done. And in some of these states, it's a real hurdle. They have a real problem of replacing the nominee at the top of the ticket.

Remember, Jake, I mean, Joe Biden was chosen after a long small-D democratic process by 14 million people emerging through that primary. It will be very interesting to see if the so-called party of democracy, the Democrats, go into a back room somewhere and switch it out and put someone else at the top of the ticket.

I mean, I think they have got legal hurdles in some of these states, and it'll be litigated, I would expect, on the ground there and they will have to sort through that. They have got a real problem.

It was interesting. I listened to the -- Joe Manchin's interview, which was compelling, at the opening of the show. And he made the point that this is not his father's Democrat Party. It's not the party he knew as a young man. He wanted them to be sensible and moderate, and they aren't anymore. And that's why he left the party.

We're seeing that across the board. We have a demographic shift going on in the country right now with a record number of Hispanic and Latino voters and black voters, African-American voters, the Jewish community coming into the Republican Party because they're looking for answers to all these great challenges facing the country.

And they feel like the woke progressive left has taken the Democrat Party way over the edge. They have. And Joe Biden and Kamala Harris helped engineer that. And I think they're responsible for it.

TAPPER: When some states, Colorado, Maine, tried to disqualify Trump from the ballot last year, you said that every American citizen registered to vote should not be denied the right to support our former president.

[09:25:06]

Could it not be argued that every American voter also has a right to vote for whomever the Democrats nominate?

JOHNSON: Well, yes.

I mean, the comparison between the two last cycle and this one is apples to oranges. What they're trying to do, a handful of people in the party including some of the top elected Democrats in the country, are trying to push Joe Biden out.

It's an interesting question, Jake, if he's incapable of running for president, how is he capable of governing right now? I mean, there is five months left in this administration. It's a real concern, and it's a danger to the country, because, on the world stage, our adversaries see exactly what all of us see. And that's a problem.

We're projecting weakness on the world stage, and that's why our adversaries are acting so provocatively. This is of great concern to all the American people.

TAPPER: You have had interactions with the president privately. Has he seemed cognitively impaired?

JOHNSON: Yes.

I mean, look, I didn't want to come out and talk about personal interactions with the president, because I have been concerned about what I just said, about this projection of weakness on the world stage at a very dangerous time.

But now that the cat is out of the bag, you can hear from the Republican speaker to affirm what everyone else has known and seen. They -- the Democrats have been involved in a big cover-up here. They have been trying to prevent the people from seeing what all of us in close proximity have seen.

He's not the Joe Biden of even four years ago when he ran for office. He's not capable of doing it now. And it's not his fault. I mean, no one can help how they age, how quickly they age and how their faculties diminish.

But that's clearly happening here, and it's something that must be contended with.

TAPPER: Well, calling it a cover-up, that's pretty strong words. Are you suggesting that there's something that needs to be investigated in a serious way by Congress or even law enforcement?

JOHNSON: Well, that's something we have discussed. I mean, you have seen even in recent weeks, until the debate three weeks ago, I mean, top Democrats in Congress and elsewhere were coming on to television regularly and saying, Joe Biden's running circles around us, he could -- he could compete in the Olympics. I mean, it was just comical.

They all knew that wasn't true. I mean, anybody who interacted with him over the last couple of years knew that that was not true. And it was -- every time I would see one of those statements, I couldn't believe they were doing it.

And that is why they went through the process and got him through winning the primary, because they put up a false pretense about his capabilities. Now the whole country sees it, and they have painted themselves into a corner because they did that.

TAPPER: House Speaker Johnson, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it, sir.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: President Biden is self-isolating at home. What is his current thinking about the race?

I will ask his close ally Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Elections are not about rewarding you for what you have done. They're about what you're going to do next.

No wasted time, no underutilized resources and no regrets the day after the election that we could have done more.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

PELOSI: Are you ready for a great Democratic victory?

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to Democrats in North Carolina last night, not exactly putting to rest questions about President Biden's candidacy.

Joining us now, one of President Biden's closest allies, Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

We're at a real moment of crisis for the Democratic Party. We're approaching 40 members of the House and Senate who have called on President Biden to step aside. We just heard Senator Joe Manchin do so a few minutes ago.

Behind the scenes, Democratic leaders of the House and Senate, not to mention former Speaker Pelosi, have all privately told President Biden they're concerned that he can't win.

Is it in the best interest of the Democratic Party for President Biden to remain the Democratic presidential nominee, do you think?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me.

You're right. This is a very, very significant time for us in this great country of ours. In fact, on today, I'm celebrating the 45th anniversary of my 39th birthday.

(LAUGHTER)

CLYBURN: And this is a great way to remember this 84th birthday of mine.

Let me say this. Joe Biden has been through a process, along with Kamala Harris, and they have received over 14 million votes to be our standard-bearers. That's where we are.

There's a process in place. It's been in place since the spring of the year. Our Rules Committee did a great job of putting together a process for us to go through on our way to the convention. And it's still there.

I said some time ago that process lends itself well to us getting to the convention as a unified party. And that's what we need to do.

I support Joe Biden. He is still in this race. He will be our nominee if he stays in the race. And I think all of us should look for ways to coalesce around that candidacy.

Now, I have said, when I have been asked, what will it take for you to change your mind, it will take him changing his mind. And if he were to change his mind, then I will change mine.

But until that time, we, as Democrats, should honor this process and should do what is necessary to preserve our democratic principles and our Democratic Party, with a big D.

[09:35:02]

TAPPER: I appreciate your loyalty to President Biden, but the question I asked was, is it in the best interest of the Democratic Party for him to be the nominee?

CLYBURN: It is always in the best interest of the Democratic Party to follow the rules.

I heard -- I like Joe Manchin the whole lot. And Joe Manchin said this morning that this is not the Democratic Party of his father. And that is a great thing, because my father -- I remember when my father got the right to vote or cast an effective vote here in South Carolina.

It was not until 1948 that the Democratic Party opened itself up to African-Americans. No, this is not the Democratic Party of my father, and that is a great thing.

And so let's go forward with these improvements that we have been making in this party, opening this party up to everybody, and keep it open to everybody. So the process is there. And I think we ought to utilize that process and go to Chicago and, when we open on the 19th of August, do so on one accord.

So, whatever is going to happen, all these people who are interested in getting into the process, the process is open. Get into it. Look at the rules. It's there. And I have said, you could use this process to effectively have a mini-primary, if that's what you are interested in having.

But if you go to the convention, have an open process in the convention, it will come out the same way it came out in 1968, 1972, and 1980, when we had contested processes on the floor of the convention. And, in 1980, we lost an incumbent president. And, in 1972, we carried one state, Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, and all of us know what happened in 1968, when we took -- we ran Lyndon Johnson out of the race.

What a great record Lyndon Johnson had. We got rid of him over one issue, the Vietnam War. Here we are now using one issue to get rid of a president. The result would be the same.

TAPPER: Do you think that President Biden's legacy would be better served with him running, with all the polls indicating that the race is where the race is, or with him doing what Senator Manchin suggested would be best for his legacy, to pass the torch to a new generation?

Which do you think would be better for him and his legacy?

CLYBURN: I have no idea.

Just because he's running two or three points behind today doesn't mean he will be running two or three points behind come November. We will compare these two candidates going forward.

There's three years difference in their ages, and there are three years difference in my age and years. I'm three years older than Joe Biden. So we can't tell anything about what the campaign will be like. Who knows what is going to happen going forward?

I do know this, that Joe Biden has been a great president. He has a great record to run on. And as I always say, the best predictor of future performance is past behavior. And if you want to know how 45 will perform in the future, look at what he tried to do to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.

What would that have done to our children and our senior citizens and others? We know what's in his Project 2025 for his future. He can claim all he wants to that he doesn't know what's in it, he doesn't know the people who put it together.

It's kind of interesting for him to already be talking about one of the authors of this thing as being in his Cabinet going forward. And he doesn't know who they are?

TAPPER: Yes.

CLYBURN: Come on.

That is what we're faced with here. Are we going to have a future that we will continue toward making this a more perfect union, or are we going to regress, retrogress and have a Redeemer form of government?

The history is clear. I know what's going on here. It's what happened in 1876. When they failed with their insurrection January 6, 2021, they were trying to replicate what happened in 1876, when this country took a bad turn toward Jim Crow. And you know what that got us.

That is exactly what they're trying to do now. And I'm saying to everybody, get -- no matter what meeting you go to...

TAPPER: Yes.

CLYBURN: ... have on your agenda Project 2025, and you will see what Trump has in store for you.

[09:40:08]

TAPPER: So, it sounds like you think the stakes are very, very high in this election.

And I think the concern that I'm hearing from Democrats, it's not so much about age. And happy 84th birthday to you, sir. It's about President Biden's performance and cognitive abilities, perhaps related to age or perhaps something else. I don't know what's going on there.

And I wonder, if the stakes are so high, then it seems incumbent on the Democratic Party to put their best nominee forward. And, again, I will ask, is that person President Biden? Is the best person the Democrats can put forward President Biden?

CLYBURN: I believe he is as good as they get. I have been saying that over and over again.

Is he the only one? No, he's not the only one. And he is among the best that we can put forward. And I stand with him until he changes his mind, if he should change his mind.

I think the record is very clear here. We have got great candidates out there. Some of them ran,some of them still on the sidelines. They're great. I agree with Manchin, great governors. He's mentioned some of his neighbors. I know Josh Shapiro, a good guy. I know Andy Beshear as well. I know Roy Cooper up in North Carolina, a great guy.

These are great governors. But none of them is any better than Joe Biden. And let's listen to his doctors. He has doctors who are telling us and him what his health is. Why do we put ourselves into that professional relationship between the doctor and his patient, rather than listen to the doctors?

And so I don't understand why those of us who look at what may have happened in that debate and says that foretells of what the next debate was going to be. That's like the people who said he was going to crash at the State of the Union. Did he crash at the State of the Union? No, he did not.

And maybe he had a bad night. I watched that debate. It was a bad night. But does that foretell that the next night is going to be a bad night? We don't win every time that we step up to the plate.

We -- after -- sometimes, we have to walk through these processes and then hope that we do better the next time out.

TAPPER: Congressman Jim Clyburn, always an honor to have you with us. Thank you so much, sir. I hope you enjoy your Sunday. And happy birthday.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

TAPPER: And happy birthday. Happy 45th anniversary of your 39th birthday.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much. It just so happens that I was born on a Sunday. Well, I was born on a Sunday. So this is -- makes this birthday very special.

TAPPER: Well, thank you so much for honoring us on this special day. Appreciate it.

CLYBURN: Thank you.

TAPPER: Some internal Democratic polling shows President Biden losing ground in key states.

I will ask the governor of one of those many states what he thinks President Biden should do. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:47:52]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

With President Biden facing rising scrutiny, what are Democratic governors saying behind closed doors about his continued candidacy?

Joining us now, Colorado Democratic Governor Jared Polis, the new chair of the National Governors Association.

Governor Polis, thanks so much for joining us.

You have said that, if the election were held today, Joe Biden would lose, and you have called on Democrats to -- quote -- "change something." And to continue the quote, you said -- quote -- "That could mean changing the message, the strategy, the candidate" -- unquote.

You heard Senator Manchin say that President Biden should step aside as the Democratic nominee just a few minutes ago on this program, Congressman Clyburn keeping the door open for that possibility.

What do you think? Should President Biden step aside as the Democratic nominee? Would that be best for the Democratic Party, for him, for the country?

GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, look, first, wish -- strong wishes for President Biden's full recovery from COVID. That can be nasty at any age, particularly in your 80s. And I think that I join all your previous guests and the world in wishing him a speedy recovery from what he's facing now.

Look, yes -- look, I believe in facts. I believe in data. You look at the polls, we are down. You have got to admit that. You can't pretend like you're ahead when you're down.

Can we come back? Absolutely. Probably four or five points down nationally. It might be a little bit harder than that, because I think we probably need to win by at least two or three to win nationally, depending on where the votes are.

So, yes, look, we need to change something about what we're doing. If we keep repeating the way that we have been campaigning, we're likely not to see a good result. The good news is, there's a very weak candidate on the other side, convicted felon.

I think, more people learn about his economic plan that would raise taxes on every American family by $2,000 to $3,000 with his tariff plan, as well as destroy jobs, people are really looking for that alternative. And it's up to us to provide that forward-looking alternative about what the Democrats would do if we have the opportunity to govern for the next four years.

TAPPER: Is President Biden the best -- quote -- "forward-looking alternative" -- unquote -- that the Democrats can put up there to defeat Donald Trump?

[09:50:00]

POLIS: I would say at this point that the burden is really on the president to show that he is, right?

There's a lot of very reasonable skepticism out there. I mean, a lot of us are holding our breath when he gives a speech: Will he get it right? Will he make a mistake, right?

We all saw the debate. You can't unsee that.

I think only he and -- knows where he's at and what he can do. I know that he and his family and Jill and Hunter are hopefully having these discussions. I think he's really trying to figure out, is he better off just being

and focusing on being the very best president of the United States that he can for six months, or does he have the energy and the ability to be a candidate for the United States presidency for the next three- and-a-half months?

TAPPER: Well, it's been three weeks and three days since that Democratic -- I'm sorry -- since the debate.

And it seems to me that, if somebody said your future depends on whether or not you can ride a bicycle, the American people don't think you can ride a bicycle, then you would go out the next day and ride a bicycle.

And it just seems like President Biden in three weeks and three days has not been able to come forward and provide the kind of presentation that would convince the American people that he is up to the job and that he is cognitively who they need a president to be.

I don't -- I mean, I respect that you're giving President Biden the space, but -- to make his decision, but, I mean, wouldn't he have shown that he can do this by now if he could?

POLIS: Well, the guy can definitely ride a bike. The guy is capable of being president of the United States, and he's doing a fine job at it.

I think the question, is he capable of running a winning campaign over the next three-and-a-half months? And the evidence so far is, we're down against a very weak Republican candidate, who's a convicted felon, whose economic policies would be devastating, who's threatening to take away our freedom. So we should be up, and we're down.

And, again, President Biden, the burden is on him to really show, hey, I'm the guy with the plan for the next four years, I can turn it around, and you don't need to hold your breath every time I talk, because we got this. And he hasn't done that yet.

Again, I -- right now, he's obviously recovering from COVID. And that can be very serious when you're in your 80s. And I wish him well, and I hope that he recovers and come back full strength.

TAPPER: Yes, thank you for the second reminder that he's in his 80s.

Before we go, I know that you're working on a new national initiative called Disagree Better. At the RNC, Former President Trump called for Americans to come together, even as the rest of the speech was not exactly what I would call unity material. He called Nancy Pelosi crazy. He repeated his false claims about the 2020 election.

What did you think of President Trump's speech? Did it signal any real change or a commitment to unity and a new tone?

POLIS: Well, Jake, I have to be honest and admit I didn't make it through it. That was a marathon of a crazy speech. And it shows why the Democrats should be 10 points ahead. Look, we need to be the party with a plan for a prosperous future, right, how we can grow the economy, make sure that everybody does well, enhance educational opportunity, protect our freedoms, and make sure that America remains a center of innovation and entrepreneurship that we are.

I don't suffer crazy well. And after 20, 30 minutes of crazy, I just couldn't get through the rest.

TAPPER: It was an hour and 32 minutes, longer than "Shrek."

Thank you so much, Governor Polis. Appreciate your time.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:08]

TAPPER: After the attempt on former President Donald Trump's life, where does America go from here?

That's tonight on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER." "Political Violence: America's Bloody History" airs tonight at 10:00 on CNN.

Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us. "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.

I will see you tomorrow morning on "THE LEAD."