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State of the Union
Interview With Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ); Interview With Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC). Aired 9-10a ET
Aired August 25, 2024 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:01:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): New phase. Vice President Kamala Harris makes it official.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I accept your nomination.
TAPPER: Now it's a sprint to Election Day. With challenges ahead, can she keep the momentum? New Jersey Democratic Senator Cory Booker joins me next.
And counterprogramming. Donald Trump scores a big endorsement.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Throw my support to President Trump.
TAPPER: And with the focus on his opponent, Trump tries to make his case.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to get personal, don't I?
TAPPER: Can his friends and advisers get him back on track? Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is here exclusively.
Plus: missile barrage, an exchange of rockets between Israel and Lebanon, as Israel launches a preemptive strike and Iran-linked Hezbollah fires back. Ahead of more cease-fire talks this weekend, what are the chances of a wider war?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Hello.
I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is in the final sprint. The two candidates for the president are staring down 72 days until Election Day, with early voting beginning in just days, and both sides expecting an extremely close and likely acrimonious end to the campaign.
Vice President Kamala Harris may have the wind at her back a bit following an energetic national convention. Her campaign said this morning it has raised an impressive $540 million since the start of her bid, including $82 million last week.
But now, of course, Harris faces her biggest challenges, sitting for an interview perhaps as soon as this week. We're waiting for any announcement on a full news conference for her, and, of course, the presidential debate just over two weeks away.
Her opponent, three-time candidate Donald Trump, is trying to define Harris and largely brushing off the pleas of his advisers to focus on policy. And regardless of his undisciplined propensity for wild attacks that can occasionally veer into bigotry, Mr. Trump continues to lead with voters on some key issues, the economy and the border chief among them. With jobs numbers being revised downward by more than 800,000 last week.
Now, this morning, fears of a new foreign policy crisis after Israel launched what it's calling a preemptive strike against the Iranian- backed terrorist group Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah immediately fired hundreds of rockets into Israel, both sides signaling that today's attacks are over, but the violence is renewing fears of an expanding regional war in the Middle East.
Joining us now, Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator, let's start with the situation in the Middle East, if we can. Hezbollah is calling this rocket attack the first phase of its response to Israel's killing of a top Hezbollah leader last month. Do you believe that this exchange of fire is an isolated incident, or could this be the start of wider hostilities between Israel and Lebanon, perhaps even drawing Iran in directly?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Look, I think we know the most urgent issue right now is ending this awful conflict in the Middle East, bringing about a cease-fire and stopping this from expanding to a wider arena.
So, last night was really worrisome. It's perhaps the biggest exchange we have had since the start of this conflict. Now, there's a full- court press going on. President Biden has sent the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, C.Q. Brown, General C.Q. Brown, into the area.
We're working with our Jordanian partners, our Saudi partners, as well as Israel and some of the soft diplomacy going on with even the Iranians to try to keep this from escalating. But, obviously, this is tense. It's something we have to be concerned about. And this is why I'm grateful that we have an experienced president who's really at the helm right now.
TAPPER: Vice President Harris talked about the crisis in Gaza in stark terms at the Democratic Convention. She called the loss of Palestinian civilian lives devastating, heartbreaking. She emphasized Palestinians have a -- quote -- "right to dignity, security, freedom, and self-determination" -- unquote.
[09:05:03]
Do you think, politically, she did enough to satisfy the progressive wing of your party that is angry about the Biden/Harris administration's handling of the war?
And do you think it was a mistake for the DNC to not have featured a Palestinian-American speaker?
BOOKER: Well, I know politics is critically important, but I know Kamala, Vice President Harris, very personally. She's been anguished over this conflict from the first reports of the Hamas attacks.
She has felt urgently that we have got to bring about a cease-fire, get the hostages returned, and end the enormity of the ongoing suffering of the Palestinian people. I think that the convention did a good job of bringing up this conflict over and over again, from Vice President Harris herself, to my friend Raphael Warnock, to even past presidents all spoke to the urgency for us to end this conflict and bring about a cease-fire, end Palestinian suffering, get the hostages released, which includes American hostages.
So I'm a big believer when it comes to politics that good policy makes for good politics. And I'm very encouraged, as Kamala Harris is running for president right now, she is still part of an administration that is doing an extraordinary job trying to end this nightmare and stop it from expanding into the region.
TAPPER: Democrats made a clear effort at the DNC to frame Vice President Kamala Harris as the candidate of change. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Our nation with this election has a precious, fleeting opportunity, a chance to chart a new way forward.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So I don't know about you. I'm ready to turn the page on these guys. We're not going back.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America is ready for a new chapter. America is ready for a better story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: A new chapter? I mean, she's the incumbent vice president. Democrats have controlled the White House for 12 of the last 16 years. How can Democrats talk about a new chapter, turning the page? You guys are the ones writing the book.
BOOKER: Well, you know that that's not true, Jake, because you know politics like I do.
Right now, we see the MAGA Republicans in Congress killing all kind of pragmatic policies that we need to get done. On the most contentious issue, we had a bipartisan deal argued by -- excuse me -- settled on by Senator Lankford, a right-wing Republican, and Chris Murphy, a blue state Democrat.
And what killed that deal? What killed the pragmatic progress? It wasn't the sensible Republicans, but really people that were kowtowing to Donald Trump. His influence is egregious and incredible, from his appointment of three people to the Supreme Court that are now rolling back the most fundamental of our rights and freedoms, like bodily autonomy and reproductive rights.
So, to say that the MAGA Republicans are not still undermining commonsense, pragmatic, sensible politics is just wrong. And what I know this election can do is finally kill that strain of the Republican Party in a way that I think helps the pragmatic Republicans come back.
I'm one big believer we get a lot more bipartisan work done than people realize. I just can't stand this tribalism, this zero-sum game, us versus them. If there's any theme in this campaign that I loved -- and it was evident by how many Republicans spoke at this convention, people who are not Democrats, who will -- once we get back to sort of the McCain party or even the Bush party or the Reagan party, will probably go back to voting Republican.
This is really a binary choice. Are we going to have the politics of Donald Trump, which is smear and fear, denigration and demeaning, or are we going to have a page be turned in America, where we get back to coming together, meeting in the middle, showing that we can compromise and actually get big things done as a nation?
TAPPER: This time eight years ago, Democrats had had a successful convention. The nominee, Hillary Clinton, enjoyed a big polling lead, Donald Trump reeling from controversy after controversy, many of them self-inflicted wounds. And then he won.
Harris is expected to sit down for her first major interview soon, perhaps as soon as this week. She has the debate next month. Donald Trump remains a formidable opponent, and in many ways is more popular today than he was in 2020 or 2016.
How much harder do you think this race is about to get for Vice President Harris?
BOOKER: She's framed it right. We are in, a neck-and-neck race, the underdogs. It still is a Goliath out there that we're fighting.
I love Walz's football terminology, something that I know intimately as a former ball player myself. It is like they're up by a field goal. But yet this is a winnable election. We still have the momentum and the energy, and America is still getting to know sort of the pragmatism and the policy and the heart and the spirit of Kamala Harris.
[09:10:15]
I like our positioning. We're still behind. We're still dealing with somebody that we almost have to remind folks of how disastrous his term was. He thinks he's better on the economy and the budget. Well, he's the person that blew trillions of dollars of a hole in our deficit, giving overwhelmingly tax cuts to the wealthiest in America or our corporate -- wealthiest corporations. He's the one that met one of our biggest trials, COVID, by telling
people we should be injecting bleach. He's the one that played the politics of division and pitting one part of America against another part of America. The more people focus on this and his record of taking away individual rights, tearing down Roe v. Wade, his record, the more people realize that and listen to him -- just listen to him.
He can't even focus on policy. This guy is out there personally attacking folks. And it's so indiscriminate. I don't think Kamala Harris takes it personally, because he was just as demeaning and degrading to Nikki Haley, to DeSantis, to Chris Christie, to John McCain.
This is about the spirit of America. And I think the best thing about the convention, as Maya Angelou says, people will often forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel. The energy coming out of the Democratic Convention was about healing, about unity.
I know it was called the Democratic National Convention, but the reality is, with the Republican presence, with the appeals to America, with the chants of "USA, USA," I hope people understand that this is not about right or left. This is about a party now that wants to heal, bring people together and move all of America forward.
TAPPER: And for folks at home who didn't understand Senator Booker's football reference, he played for Stanford. Now, he was not a professional football player.
It is a striking...
BOOKER: Wow.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: I just don't want any of the fact-checkers to come at you. I'm just trying to help you here. You're a football player from college, from college.
BOOKER: I appreciate that, man. Yes. Yes. Yes.
TAPPER: Yes. Yes, not you -- it's not like you played for the New Jersey Generals.
Anyway, it is striking that we heard more about Trump's policies and Project 2025 at the Democratic Convention this past week than we did about specific policies Vice President Harris might implement as president, including from Harris herself.
Now, Democrats have been saying on background that Harris doesn't need to get too specific. She can keep things vague until after the election, especially with Donald Trump as her rival, not exactly Mr. Specifics when it comes to policy.
But do you agree with that? Or do you think that the Harris/Walz campaign owes specific Americans blueprints, policy details about what she would do as president sometime in the next few weeks?
BOOKER: Look, I don't understand where this so-called vagary comes from. She left really some pretty specific, detailed plan on a lot of her economic agenda, whether it's about trying to do specific things, like with tax credits and more to create more housing and to help to create more supply and thus lower the cost of housing.
She created -- she let out specific plans that really relate to like 40 other states' plans to stop price gouging -- excuse me -- 40 other states' actual laws to stop price gouging. She's spoken really to the heart of issues that Americans are concerned about, about their kitchen table economics and about their freedoms.
She's spoken very specifically about restoring reproductive rights and Roe v. Wade and the kind of legislation that she wants to see passed. So, from reproductive rights to lowering costs, she's been very specific. And as this campaign goes on, she will be sitting for more interviews. She will be engaging in debates. I think she wants to do more, if Donald Trump will actually show up to a debate.
So, again, I have been through a lot of cycles. hand this is, to me, a campaign that's putting it very much out there front and center the kind of policies they're going to pursue and the kind of effects they will have to expanding opportunity for Americans, in fact, making more of an opportunity economy.
TAPPER: Before we go, if you listened very closely to the convention, you might have picked up on a subtle theme at the DNC this week. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS EMHOFF, SECOND GENTLEMAN: Kamala is a joyful warrior.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: The joy of her laughter and her life.
WALZ: Thank you for bringing the joy to this fight.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Joy, joy, joy.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Joy in our hearts.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president of joy.
OPRAH WINFREY, PRODUCER/PHILANTHROPIST: Let us choose joy!
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: so I'm not accusing the convention of plagiarizing from you, but joy is kind of your thing. It was central to your 2020 presidential campaign.
That didn't work with Democratic voters then, at least not enough to make you the nominee. Why do you think it's working now?
[09:15:02]
BOOKER: I think it's fatigue in this country. I really do.
I think we're just tired of negative cynicism about America in general. There is not a country in the world -- and I have traveled through Europe and the Middle East and Africa just in the last months. There is not a place I go where people don't envy our nation. We have so much to be proud of.
That doesn't mean that we don't have real challenges and real problems. But energy begets energy. And negativity and darkness and doomsaying only creates more of that energy. It's time that we take pride in who we are again, that we feel the joy of our ancestors.
And we're our ancestors' wildest dreams, the life that we're living. We are capable of doing extraordinary things. And it's about time we start feeling that strength and that potential. Yes, weeping indoors through the night, but I think joy is coming now with a new day and the new horizon and especially I think what Harris and Walz are really offering.
It's a new energy for America, and it's about time that our country start plugging into that hopefulness and that joyfulness.
TAPPER: But true or false, you are O.G. joy?
BOOKER: I have -- definitely have been banging this drum for many, many years.
And a Republican pollster once told me that I ran a campaign a few years too early, but that the country was moving in this direction. And everywhere I went in that convention, everywhere I go as I campaign for my colleagues, from Nevada with Jacky Rosen, to campaigning for Tammy Baldwin, everywhere I go, I am seeing an energy of hopefulness and joyfulness, like a new horizon is coming to this country.
So I'm excited about it. I feel like I'm a good surrogate for her now, even better than before, because of where the country is. And I think America is ready to turn a page and embrace a new spirit.
TAPPER: New Jersey's own, Senator Cory Booker, thanks for joining us this morning. Appreciate it.
BOOKER: Thank you, Jake. Thanks so much.
TAPPER: My next guest has a warning for Donald Trump, but is the former president listening? South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham is going to join me on the other side of this break.
And will Vice President Harris get a convention bounce in the polls? What we know -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:21:25]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.
The first absentee ballots of the 2024 election are getting sent out in just 12 days in the key swing state of North Carolina, as both Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump prepare for the final stretch of the campaign.
But, today, a new test for the candidates, as an escalation of violence between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon threaten to spill over into a wider war.
Joining us now, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham.
Senator, we have a lot to get to. Thanks for joining us.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yes.
TAPPER: I want to start with the news overnight that Israel's military said it launched preemptive strikes against the terrorist group Hezbollah. And Lebanon has followed launch strikes back towards Israel.
This comes as hostage and cease-fire talks are set to resume in Cairo today. How should the U.S. respond to what's going on in the Middle East? And what is your message to get the cease-fire and hostage release deal across the finish line?
GRAHAM: Well, number one, I think we have got to remember that October the 7th attack was generated, in my view, to stop normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
It's a nightmare for Iran and her proxies for the Arabs and the Israelis to reconcile and make peace and take the region in a different direction. So, as to the hostages, I would hold Iran responsible for their well-being.
If I were the state of Israel, I would tell the ayatollah, if these people do not come home alive, the ones that are left alive, and if we don't get the bodies of the fallen, we're going to blow up your oil refineries.
That's the only way you're ever going to get the hostages released is to put pressure on Iran.
TAPPER: Let's turn to politics.
The Democratic Convention generated a lot of energy this week. Millions of viewers tuned in, a bit more than tuned into the Republican Convention. It was disciplined. It was well-produced. It conveyed patriotism and unity. The Harris campaign says it's raised an eye-popping $540 million in 35 days. You are as close to Donald Trump as anyone. Is what he saw this week
making him and his campaign nervous at all?
GRAHAM: Well, I didn't see what you saw.
TAPPER: OK.
GRAHAM: If you're a Republican, you saw a hate fest. You saw a hate fest full of insults.
And Donald Trump said to Barack Obama, you're a nice man after President Obama insulted and jabbed President Trump continuously. It was designed to draw him into an exchange of insults. It was light on policy, heavy on insults.
So I told President Trump then and now, you're going to win this thing if you focus on policy. Americans are not joyful when they go to the gas station and fill up their car. They're not joyful when they make their mortgage payment. They're not joyful when they go to the grocery store. People are hurting.
And this whole joy lovefest doesn't exist in the real world. Gas was $1.87 a gallon when President Trump left office. We had the most secure border in the last 40 years. Inflation was down, not up, and the world was not on fire.
So, 60 percent of Americans are not joyful. They believe their country is going in the wrong direction. And I think President Trump offers the best solution to change the trajectory of the country. And, finally, if you're waiting on Kamala Harris to come up with new policies, you're going to die of waiting, because she will continue what they have been doing for the last four years.
That's why she has no new policies to offer, because they're going to keep doing the same old thing.
TAPPER: There certainly were plenty of attacks against Donald Trump. I'm not suggesting otherwise, absolutely.
[09:25:04]
(LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
TAPPER: Last week, former President Trump tried to respond to some of what was going on at the convention. He called into FOX News and said -- I'm not really quite sure what his message was in that.
But he posted "Where's Hunter?" on social media. He went after Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro as an overrated Jewish government who should be supporting him because of Israel. He attacked Georgia Republican Governor Brian Kemp. He called Vice President Harris lazy.
What do you say to the analysis that this really is Donald Trump's race to lose, but sometimes it looks like he's trying to? GRAHAM: Well, I think -- I think the point is that he went to the border to talk about a broken border.
We have repaired the damage, I think, between Governor Kemp and President Trump. Governor Kemp came out strongly for President Trump in Georgia. He's going to put his ground game behind President Trump and all other Republicans in Georgia. So that's a very underreported story.
If we don't win Georgia, I don't see how we get to 270. But I do believe Georgia's ours to lose. When you look at the right track/wrong track number in Georgia, it's really hard for Kamala Harris to tell Georgians that we're on the right track. They don't believe it.
So, policy is your friend, from my point of view, is how to win this race. Nothing's going to change with Vice President Harris. She's a nice person. Cory Booker is one of my best friends. She is lucky to have Cory to be a surrogate. But the truth of the matter, the policies of the last four years have been miserable failures.
The world is on fire. Your grocery bill is up. Your gas bill is up. Your mortgage payments are up. And the worst is yet to come if you reelect these people yet again.
TAPPER: You said last week that -- quote -- "Donald Trump, the provocateur, the showman may not win this election" -- unquote -- urging that he focuses more on policies the way that you are in this interview.
Mr. Trump responded to you. Take a listen.
GRAHAM: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, I like Lindsey. I don't care what he says, OK? Lindsey wouldn't have been elected if I didn't endorse him.
So, South Carolina -- Lindsey's my friend, but if I didn't endorse him, he would have had no chance of getting elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: "I like Lindsey. I don't care what he says," the president says.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: He doesn't seem receptive to your advice.
GRAHAM: Well, I talked to him a couple days ago.
Now, all I can say is that President Trump, when he was president of our country, we had the most secure border in 40 years. Gas was at $1.87. Russia was invading Ukraine. The Arabs were making peace with Israelis. He's got a lot to be proud of. And me and him are good. We're going to be together. I'm going to Georgia with him. We're going to try to have a unity event in Georgia to bring this whole party together. I will be by his side in this election. I am proud of what he did as our president.
I look forward to him coming back and taking over the ship of state that is floundering. And the best way to win this race is what I have been saying the whole time. Compare what you did as president to the life we're leading now and offer people some hope that change is coming.
It is not coming with reelecting Vice President Harris. Making her your president does not change anything in this country. Getting Donald Trump back in office is your best hope if you want things to change.
TAPPER: Let's turn to another important issue in this election, abortion.
Former President Trump made some news the other night. He posted on TRUTH Social -- quote -- "My administration will be great for women and their reproductive rights" -- unquote.
That's language that obviously sounds kind of the left.
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: The top editor of the conservative "National Review" said -- quote -- "Trump's abandonment of pro-lifers is complete" -- unquote.
Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said Trump is going to suppress his own supporters and -- quote -- "My advice is, when you're in a hole, stop digging" -- unquote.
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: What exactly is Donald Trump going to do to -- quote, unquote -- "help women's reproductive rights?"
GRAHAM: Yes. No, you need to ask him about that.
What I would say is that President Trump was a very good pro-life president. His position now, as I understand it, is that he's going to leave the abortion issue to the states. He doesn't believe there's a role for the federal government.
My position has always been to be against late-term abortion. It's a state issue up to a point; 47 of 52 European nations limit abortion from 12 to 15 weeks. I have a bill that says that 15 weeks, we limit abortion, we keep the exceptions in place, because the baby can feel pain.
He's not going to win or lose this election based on the abortion issue. His position of allowing the states to do it, I respect that. The pro-life community is organized around the well-being of the child, giving the mother options other than an abortion. That movement will continue after he's gone.
[09:30:01]
But I do believe, if you're pro-life, Walz and -- Harris and Walz are a nightmare for you, because they would nationalize abortion and wipe out every protection for the unborn at the state level. They would allow abortion demand up to the moment of birth. The exceptions they talk about in their bill do away with any limits.
And please ask Vice President Harris, if you see her again, at what point would you limit abortion, at what week, if any, and see what she says.
TAPPER: I -- there's a lot that you just said there that I'd love to dive into.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: But there is something else that's very important.
Two pro-Trump Organizations are hosting a January 6 awards gala at the Trump National Golf Course in Bedminster, New Jersey, next Tuesday. The event is supposed to pay tribute to all January 6 defendants and raise money for these defendants and, in many cases, convicted criminals who assaulted the Capitol, assaulted law enforcement.
Now, the Trump campaign says Donald Trump is not attending, although the organizers say they expect him to attend and that he's on the invitation as an invited guest.
Do you think it would be a mistake for him to go? And is it a mistake for this event to be taking place at Bedminster at all?
GRAHAM: Well, my view of January 6 -- I was actually there -- that the people who broke into the Capitol and assaulted police officers are -- should go to jail. They committed a crime.
There are people very upset about the outcome of the 2020 election. I get that. But Vice President Harris tried to raise bill money for people who burned Minneapolis. I didn't like that either. So, when it comes to the party's condoning violence, I would say we both should knock it off in that regard.
But Vice President Harris went on to -- tweeted out, raised money to get these people out of jail who burnt Minneapolis and killed a police officer. So what I would say is that this election is not going to be decided based on the 2020 outcome, but how people are living in 2024.
So, no, I have no sympathy for those who broke into the Capitol, destroyed the place and hurt police officers.
TAPPER: So you don't think that Donald Trump should allow this fund- raiser at Bedminster?
GRAHAM: Well, I will let him -- there are people being held, I think, that have had their due process rights violated. Quite frankly, they haven't been brought to trial yet. I don't like that very much.
But I will leave it up to him as to what causes to support. I am supporting him because my country, your country, our country is hurting. And he offers policy changes that we desperately need.
TAPPER: All right, Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate it.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
TAPPER: The next test for Kamala Harris, we will get into it when my panel joins us next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:37:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: This will still be a tight race.
M. OBAMA: This is going to be an uphill battle. A handful of votes in every precinct could decide the winner.
B. CLINTON: We have seen more than one election slip away from us.
WALZ: We have got 76 days. That's nothing. There will be time to sleep when you're dead. We're going to leave it on the field.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
At the Democratic Convention,Democrats, they're cautioning their base to avoid the sugar high and keep their eyes on Election Day. And, without question, this is anticipated to be a neck-and-neck race.
My panel's with me now.
So let's start with a Democrat.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: It's tough.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
TAPPER: This is not -- this is -- I mean, it was all hope and joy last week in Chicago.
FINNEY: Right.
TAPPER: But this is -- this is going to be a dogfight from now until November.
FINNEY: A hundred percent. I have been saying to my fellow Democrats, we have got to go take that joy into victory. And so we have got to work hard every single day.
I think we were very happy with some of the numbers that the campaign put out this morning about continuing to fund-raise, continuing to see the enthusiasm for doing the ground game work, knocking on doors.
But I think everybody's very clear, this is going to be hard. And we have got to keep doing the work. And it's -- we're going to have to win the win.
TAPPER: And, I mean, do you agree with the assessment that still Donald Trump has the edge, I mean, that it is still right track/wrong track numbers, it's still a change election, and Vice President Harris is the incumbent?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I totally agree with that.
And that's the one thing about the convention that I think they couldn't wash off. And they're trying. And with this new TV ad from Kamala Harris, there's just a complete ignoring of the fact that she's the sitting vice president, that she's been at the center of American public affairs for a number of years, that she has a voting record, that she has public statements, and that she has a record for the last 3.5 years.
I don't know how they plan to cure that. I suspect at some point she's going to have to look into a television camera and answer this question. Can you name one or two things that you think Joe Biden has done wrong? And she's going to have to decide whether to answer that question or not.
It's hard, because the most consequential decisions he made, she was either the last person in the room on Afghanistan, her words, or she went up to the Senate and cast a tiebreaking vote. So I don't know how she's going to break with him. But if she wears him for the rest of the election, it will be very difficult to win.
TAPPER: Do you agree with that?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, but I think you already actually see some encouraging signs for her on this. I think there was a University of Michigan poll this month that showed that voters actually trust her on the economy, by a point, by a percentage point, more than Donald Trump, which is a huge inversion of the dynamic that we saw that was partially dragging Biden down.
So I think, in this first month since she's taken on the mantle as the nominee, she's done a really good job of threading this admittedly challenging needle of saying, here are the things that I have done, that I have been successful on, but here's how I'm going to carry that forward in a new way, and here's how -- now that I'm at the top of the ticket, here's how things are going to feel different.
And I actually think people are responding to that. And that's not an easy messaging needle to thread. But I think she's done it quite effectively so far.
[09:40:02]
BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, I don't think we have ever seen a vice president run for president basically renouncing everything about the administration.
The Democrats are betting that the voters are gambling -- or that the voters are lying when they say it's on the wrong track. They're lying that they won't hold them accountable. It's like they think the voters believe America is on the wrong track for some other reason, other than the policies of this administration. I don't know if it's going to work, but we will see.
BEDINGFIELD: But she's not. Now, wait a minute.
FINNEY: Yes. Correct.
BEDINGFIELD: She's not renouncing everything that the administration has done. She's talked about the fact that they have been able to bring inflation down. She's talked about policies that are going to continue to bring costs down.
You see her build on that with the price gouging stuff. I mean, she's not -- it's just not true.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDINGFIELD: ... that she's standing up to say, I reject everything we have accomplished.
She's saying, here's how I'm building on it, and here's how I'm going to make your life better in the next four years.
JENNINGS: And, first of all, inflation is not down.
BEDINGFIELD: It is down. That is objectively true.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: No, no, false. The rate of inflation has dropped, but inflation is still going up. So let's tell the truth about inflation.
BEDINGFIELD: OK. The rate of inflation has come down. Wages also continue to outpace inflation. So that is a fact.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: If you buy a truck, if you buy a pickup truck today, it's $40,000. It was $30,000 when Joe Biden took over. If you get a mortgage, it's twice as high. Prices are up. Inflation has cost...
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: The administration...
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Can we talk a little bit about, though, the economy that Joe Biden inherited from Donald Trump, which was a disaster? And we were in the middle of COVID, by the way.
I mean, this post-COVID economy is very different than how the economy looked before COVID. We have -- the way we work has changed dramatically since COVID. But...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I just want to read this from "The New York Times"' deputy opinion, Patrick Healy. He -- in an op-ed called "Joy Is Not a Strategy."
He says: "She hasn't been tested, really tested since Biden stepped aside. She hasn't given a single interview or news conference to face hard questions. But it's really the debates that will be her test. Her advisers think she might get away with doing just one against Trump. I think they underestimate her challenge in earning voters' trust. She needs to start proving herself outside her comfort zone."
Do you disagree?
BEDINGFIELD: I do disagree, actually. She is proving herself outside of her comfort zone. She has spent the last month -- it was thrust upon her, this moment, where she had to rise to the occasion to take on the mantle of being the Democratic nominee, which is a huge moment.
And she's done it successfully. You have seen -- you see momentum. You see people excited. So this notion like joy isn't a strategy, joy is actually what people want. This is what they want to feel right now. And they're feeling it from her. She's also laying out substantive policy proposals, which she did in her nominating speech.
FINNEY: Yes.
BEDINGFIELD: So the idea that these two things are somehow mutually exclusive, I don't think that's true. And what she's doing right now is good politics.
JENNINGS: The joy will continue until morale improves.
People don't want to feel joy. They want to feel relief. The economic anxiety is real. And it is -- you can say inflation is down. And I know that's what the Democrats are going to argue. Not a single person who has bought a single thing in the last four years or in the last four minutes believes that.
And I think you get in trouble in politics when you tell people something that does not match their lived experience.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: So, everyone, stick around.
BEDINGFIELD: Republican strategist says, people do not want to feel joy.
FINNEY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Everyone, stick around.
BEDINGFIELD: Interesting. That's an interesting message.
TAPPER: We're going to keep -- we're going to keep talking.
What effect might RFK Jr.'s endorsement for Donald Trump have on the election? We will get into that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:47:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Bobby has run an extraordinary campaign. He also went after me a couple of times. I didn't like it.
KENNEDY: We talked about -- not about the things that separate us, because we don't agree on everything, but on the values and the issues that bind us together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
Third-party candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. officially suspended his campaign and endorsed former President Donald Trump, a Republican. His family is not happy. My panel is with me.
Do you think that this will, could have an effect on the race?
TODD: Well, first of all, it's a very close election, so every little bit helps.
TAPPER: Sure.
TODD: And if you don't think he might help Trump, then why did Democrats sue to block him from running to get him off ballots? Why did they lock him out of debates, try to keep him off media platforms?
Democrats know that RFK is a potential threat to them in this election. And here's where I think it is, Jake. One of the groups that matters is low-prop younger men. They lean towards Trump, but they also are kind of fascinated with RFK.
TAPPER: When you say -- just to -- low-prop, I mean, low-propensity voters, they don't -- they're not reliable.
TODD: They don't vote a lot. They don't vote a lot.
TAPPER: Yes.
TODD: It's not that important to them. Politics is not a high priority in their life, maybe men 18 to 30 who don't really engage in politics.
RFK is kind of a fascination for them. And so I do think it does matter because he brings an imprimatur that's outside partisan politics. And I think that it could accrue to Trump's benefit, not a lot. Don't want to overstate it, but it will help him some.
TAPPER: What do you think about that argument? Because Joe Rogan didn't endorse RFK Jr., but did say he was the most -- like, he found him really interesting.
BEDINGFIELD: Right.
TAPPER: That Joe Rogan audience, people can sneer at them all they want. That's a sizable group.
BEDINGFIELD: And there may be a subset of those men who are kind of captured by the idea of RFK Jr.
But I think what's actually most telling about this dynamic is the reason RFK Jr. had the win kind of sucked out of his sails is the double-hater universe has shrunk since Kamala Harris -- since Kamala Harris went to the top of the ticket.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Explain what a double-hater is.
BEDINGFIELD: The double-haters, people who didn't want to vote for Trump and didn't want to vote for Biden. And so we're looking at third-party options. We're looking at RFK.
That universe has dropped dramatically, has shrunk dramatically since Harris went to the top of the ticket. So people who didn't find Biden to be an acceptable alternative to Trump do see Harris as an acceptable alternative to Trump. And that's part of the reason that RFK Jr. doesn't have any gas left in the tank here.
So that's, I think, what is actually the most kind of telling in terms of the political dynamics of what's going on here.
TAPPER: What do you think?
I know you're not a huge fan of RFK Jr.
JENNINGS: I mean, I -- look, I have been holding a grudge for 20 years. He claimed after Bush/Cheney '04 that we hot-wired the voting machines in Ohio and stole the election. And so...
[09:50:05]
TAPPER: Wild. Yes, wild and false stuff.
JENNINGS: Yes.
I mean, he's been a -- he used to a liberal conspiracy theorist. Now there are people on the right that love him. Look, I agree with Brad. I think there's a subset of low-propensity male -- young male voters. Trump's got to maximize turnout among that group.
By the way, he is a Kennedy. If this guy were just Bob Johnson from Idaho wearing a sandwich board and carrying a megaphone, we wouldn't care. But he's a Kennedy. And so if he -- if he campaigns, he will draw a crowd. And if he draws the kind of crowd that wouldn't ordinarily vote, I get the mathematical piece of it for Trump.
I -- my caution, my advice would be, the downstream effects of this, you now own anything he might do or say for the next couple of months. And this may or may not inure to your benefit. So I would just caution, careful, careful.
FINNEY: Yes. If you want to have that endorsement, I'm perfectly happy for you too, because that's fine. I mean, people who take dead bear cubs to Central Park, if you want that vote, go for it.
Look, I think the key strategy, though, they have got to keep Donald Trump on message. I mean, he even said at his events, he likes doing the personal attacks, right? That's more comfortable for him.
TAPPER: But -- in fact, all right, let me let me run that sound bite and come right back to you, because here is Donald Trump saying -- and, like, obviously his advisers are saying, please stick to policy, please stick to policy, the way that Lindsey Graham was just urging the other minute.
And, here, former President Trump responded to them in the middle of an event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I call up my people. I say, they're knocking the hell out of me, and you say I shouldn't get personal.
I have to get personal, don't I? I have to get personal.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Then they say to me, sir, please stick to policy. Don't stick to personality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I kind of love it, by the way. I mean, just like -- he's, like, talking about conversations he had.
But go ahead.
FINNEY: Right.
No, but the point is, folks like Brad and Scott here keep saying, please, sir, stick to policy. And we can see what he thinks about that. And yet we have a candidate who in her acceptance speech talked about immigration reform. She talked about America on the world stage. She talked about the economy and her economic plans, how she differs a little bit from Joe Biden on things that she would do.
She talked about -- with immigration, border security. She talked about protecting Social Security and Medicare. That was all policy. And she's got the next several days to continue to lay out her policy agenda and where she would differ from Joe Biden.
TAPPER: Sir, I will give you the last word.
TODD: This campaign is simple. Kamala Harris told us in 2020 exactly what she would do if she was president. It's the furthest left platform any candidate has ever expressed for national office.
It's very easy. Donald Trump just has to feed her words back to her from 2020.
TAPPER: You hear that, sir?
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:56:25]
TAPPER: National parks such as Yellowstone attract millions of summer vacationers, but are more and more rule-breakers spoiling the fun for everyone else?
A new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" airs tonight at 8:00 p.m., only on CNN.
Thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us.
"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.
