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State of the Union

Interview With Nadav Shoshani; Interview With Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI); Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired September 01, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:51]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Heartbreak. Israeli-American hostage Hersh Goldberg-Polin is dead, slaughtered, along with five others, by Hamas, found by Israeli forces. Hostage families demand a cease-fire now, but are the two sides any closer to a deal?

And sit-down. Kamala Harris sits for the first interview of her candidacy.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My values have not changed.

BASH: With just days until the first votes are cast, has she shared enough with voters to win? Democratic Senate candidate Congressman Adam Schiff is next.

Plus: damage control. Donald Trump sends mixed messages on abortion...

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have the whole thing brought back into the state.

BASH: ... and tries to contain the controversy after his visit to Arlington National Cemetery. Will the fallout hurt him with independent voters? An ally who is helping Trump prepare for the debate and was with him at Arlington, Tulsi Gabbard, joins me exclusively.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is grieving the loss of a fellow American.

We begin with the breaking news. Israelis are on the streets protesting, demanding a cease-fire agreement after defense officials said they recovered the bodies of six Israeli hostages murdered by Hamas, including Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin, who was 23 years old. An IDF spokesman said Hamas brutally killed the six young adults in an underground tunnel near Rafah a short time before Israeli forces arrived. Three of them would have been released in the early stages of a cease-

fire agreement to Israeli officials, told CNN, an agreement President Biden said last night was on the verge of happening, while Vice President Harris released a statement that reads in part: "The threat Hamas poses to the people of Israel and American citizens in Israel must be eliminated and Hamas cannot control Gaza. The Palestinian people too have suffered under Hamas rule for nearly two decades."

Here with me now is IDF spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani.

Thank you so much for being here. We are so incredibly devastated for Israel, for all of the families. It's just hard to even imagine how much pain everybody is in.

And as a spokesperson for the IDF, I'd like for you to explain exactly what happened when these six bodies were found.

LT. COL. NADAV SHOSHANI, IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Thank you, Dana. Thank you for having me.

This is a very sad morning in Israel, very sad news coming out of the Gaza Strip announcing today after we were able to talk to the families and inform them about finding the bodies of their loved ones. These were six people that were taken on October 7. And in our operations in Rafah, in an underground tunnel, we found their bodies and we brought them back to Israel.

We examined them and we found that they were murdered by Hamas recently. We were able to inform the families about it and share the news today, the very, very sad news about them. And...

BASH: And just to be clear, just because we're obviously trying to get information about exactly how this happened, were IDF soldiers actually looking for these six hostages, or did they find them as part of a separate mission?

SHOSHANI: Well, we have been operating above and under ground in that area, combating terrorists and searching in the underground tunnels, as we have done in recent weeks in Rafah.

And this is an area, I remind you, it's less than a mile from where we found Farhan Alkadi, the hostage that we were able to rescue alive a few days ago. So there was some idea of hostages being in the area, but this was not a specific mission to release hostages, but part of our ordinary combat missions against Hamas above and under ground.

[09:05:16]

BASH: So you said that you believe that they were murdered recently. Can you be more specific about how recently?

SHOSHANI: Well, we're still examining the information also operationally in the tunnel and also examining the bodies.

This is a process that might take a while. And we are firstly obligated to inform the families, and then we will have the information more public, but, according to our initial inquiry of the situation, they were murdered recently by Hamas terrorists.

They were taken alive from Israel. They were living in horrible conditions for almost 11 months. And, recently, they were murdered by the terror organization, and we were able to find them yesterday.

BASH: And do you have any idea -- and I realize this is early and obviously, understandably, very delicate, but do you have any idea, based on when and where these individuals and their bodies were found, that they were murdered after hearing or sensing that the IDF was close by?

SHOSHANI: Well, I -- we will be able to put that information later, but I think that's not the question.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that came to Israel, murdered thousands of people and abducted these innocent civilian, young people from a party, and they murdered them. And that is because they're a terrorist organization. I think I would not be the one looking for reasons for Hamas for why they did this.

BASH: Yes. No.

SHOSHANI: It's a terror organization killing innocent civilians, one of them an American civilian you all know of that was killed brutally in this tunnel.

BASH: Yes. Yes, and I just want to make no mistake about this. Hamas is a terror organization and they are the ones to blame for this.

I guess the reason I was asking that question is whether or not they were close to being rescued. That was the basis for my question.

SHOSHANI: Right.

We're operating, and we have a moral obligation and an operational priority to bring home. There's still 101 hostages, and we are working to bring them home, as we have been able to bring a few home, one just last week.

BASH: Right.

SHOSHANI: And we're operating for that. And that was part of our operations in that area, hoping to find hostages. And, sadly, we found them. We found bodies, but we're still operating in all parts of Gaza, hoping to find hostages.

There are still many hostages alive, and that's why it's important for us to continue this pressure and to try and bring them home alive.

BASH: Lieutenant Colonel Shoshani, thank you so much for being here.

And, again, we are just devastated by the news.

SHOSHANI: Thank you.

BASH: My next guests spoke forcefully at the Republican Convention in July leading the crowd and chance of "Bring them home."

Here with me now are Ronen and Orna Neutra, the parents of Israeli- American citizen Omer Neutra, held hostage by Hamas.

Thank you so much for being here this morning, particularly given the fact that I know how close you are to all of the hostage families, but particularly the Goldberg-Polins, the two, Hersh and Omer, almost the same age. Omer is going to turn 23 next month. And I can't imagine how difficult it must be to watch this news knowing that your beautiful son is still in captivity.

ORNA NEUTRA, MOTHER OF HAMAS HOSTAGE: That's absolutely right, Dana.

There are no words for us really to comfort all the families, but, specifically, we have become very close with the Goldberg-Polins. They're like our family. We have traveled the world. We have met together with leaders. And we're completely devastated by this news.

We were holding on to this vision that Omer and Hersh are together, that they would come out together. And it's just completely devastating and a stark reminder to the conditions that these hostages are being held in, that this is a terrorist group that is holding on to them and that things have to work much faster for them to come out.

BASH: Well, on that, Prime Minister Netanyahu said he is personally committed to achieving a deal to free the remaining hostages.

What is your message to him right now?

RONEN NEUTRA, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE OMER NEUTRA-ORNA: You know, Dana, we are just hoping that he's doing everything he can.

[09:10:05]

The situation is dire. It's urgent. We have seen him putting all kind of hurdles. We know the Israel people are going out in large numbers and calling the government to do what their job is, to bring the hostages home, 101 hostages left. And they're dying there.

And every day is huge risk for each one of them. So we urge him to do what he's tasked to do in Israel. But just as well, we are calling on our leaders here in the United States to do what they're tasked to do. We're calling on President Biden, on Vice President Harris to do everything in their power to reach a deal and bring the hostages back.

We were warning about that kind of situation. It's such a risky time for all those hostages. I mean, Hersh managed to survive 11 months in captivity. He lost his arm. And after all of this, to be killed few days maybe before a deal, it's really devastating, really is.

BASH: Of course it is.

Orna, finally, you say a verse from Psalm 23 every day, the Psalm of David, to send your son protection. Can you share what you say before we let you go?

O. NEUTRA: You know, I not only say the Psalm. I pray for my son every single day. I pray for the hostages, as did Rachel Goldberg.

We feel that we're doing our share and praying and advocating and speaking up for them. It's time for the leaders to get this done and get them out. Enough is enough. The families have been warning about this. The writing was on the wall, and this negotiation has been taking way too long. They need to come out.

The leaders need to do whatever needs to be done for them to come out.

BASH: Yes.

R. NEUTRA: And, Dana, I want to remind four American living hostages still in captivity. And I want to say their name real quick, Sagui Dekel-Chen, our son, Omer Neutra, and Keith Siegel, who is 64 year old.

We got to bring them home. The American administration need to come up with a plan to bring their own American home and the rest of the hostages.

O. NEUTRA: And, of course, the deceased hostages.

BASH: Yes.

R. NEUTRA: And, of course, bring the three deceased hostages, Gadi, Judy and Itay Chen. It's a must.

BASH: I hear the desperation and the pain in your voice. And what we hear, I'm sure, only pales in comparison to how you feel in your hearts; 331 is on your stickers, on your shirts. That is the number of days your beautiful son has been in captivity with others.

Thank you so much for, on this very difficult day, coming on and continuing to press the way you have been so heroically for so many months. Appreciate it.

And may the memory of Hersh Goldberg-Polin be a blessing and the others.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: We will be right back with Democratic Senate candidate Adam Schiff.

Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:47]

BASH: It's Labor Day weekend, the traditional kickoff to the home stretch of the presidential campaign.

Here with me now is Democratic Senate candidate from California Congressman Adam Schiff. I want to talk to you about the campaign in one minute, but, first,

you are in Oakland, California right now. That is where the Goldberg- Polin family is originally from. And I want to get your reaction to the murder of Israeli-American hostage, Hersh Goldberg-Polin and five others.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, when I heard the news last night, I felt sick.

I am just absolutely heartbroken for Hersh's family, for the families of these other hostages that were butchered by these Hamas terrorists. And it just is hard to wrap your head around. I think we all came to know Hersh through his family. And it's just devastating.

And these sons of bitches who did this ought to be hunted down and brought to justice, no matter how long that takes. I hope and pray, I think as we all do, that there's a negotiated end to this war, and soon, and that not another innocent person loses their life.

And I just can't imagine how his family must feel right now.

BASH: Congressman, you just heard the Neutras, whose son Omer is also in captivity, call not just on Prime Minister Netanyahu, but President Biden, multiple times to do more to get these hostages, particularly Americans, home.

I mean, I asked her about a prayer that she says every day, and she's clearly done with prayers. She's frustrated, understandably. I'm hearing anecdotally from people saying, this is the United States of America, and the fact that the American president and American administration can't get American citizens held in these conditions back is very frustrating and a little bit -- they're flabbergasted by it.

[09:20:03]

How can the Biden administration answer those frustrations right now?

SCHIFF: Well, first of all, I think the parents of the hostages are doing exactly what they should be doing, exactly what I would be doing in their shoes, as difficult as it is to imagine the horror of standing where they're standing.

And that is pleading, advocating, doing everything possible to get the Israeli government to agree to an end to the war that releases their family members and also call upon the president and vice presidents to do everything they can.

And I think they are. I think President Biden and Vice President Harris are turning over every stone in their efforts to secure the release of the hostages and protect the lives of the hostages and achieve a cease-fire.

I don't think they go a waking moment without focusing on this. We're not putting boots on the ground in these tunnels under Gaza, so it is a very difficult situation in terms of our own ability to rescue these hostages.

But I really sincerely believe the administration is doing everything possible and is committed not only to an end to the war in which the threat from Hamas is eliminated and in which we are on a path at some point,and I pray soon, to a regional and two-state solution that achieves a lasting peace in the region. But I really believe they're doing all they possibly can.

BASH: Congressman, I want to turn back domestically to the presidential race, which is 65 days away, Election Day is.

I want you to listen to how Vice President Harris answered my question this week about a key issue in the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: In 2019, you said -- quote -- "There is no question I'm in favor of banning fracking."

Fracking, as you know, is a pretty big issue, particularly in your must-win state of Pennsylvania. Do you still want to ban fracking?

HARRIS: No, and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020 that I would not ban fracking. As vice president, I did not ban fracking. As president, I will not ban fracking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You're a co-sponsor of a House bill right now that would ban fracking. Are you disappointed that she supports it now?

SCHIFF: Well, I favor banning fracking, and I strongly believe that the pathway to attacking climate change is to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels.

But, look, I'm not the vice president of the United States. And I do think that, when you are representing the whole country, you have a different perspective. As the vice president pointed out, her values, though, have remained consistent. And that is she is a champion of moving ourselves in the renewable energy direction.

Her role in passing the Inflation Reduction Act, the most aggressive attack on climate change in our history, I think, speaks for itself. But, look, let's compare a situation where someone changed their position four years ago to Donald Trump, who's changed his position four times on abortion in the last 48 hours.

That, to me, is a much more significant question, particularly as, when you're talking about abortion and you're talking about a right and freedom of the American people to be so pandering, wishy-washy, flip-flopping so disrespectful to the rights and freedoms of millions of American women, and do all that in a single day. That's the contrast here.

And what's more, Dana, that's a values issue. That's a values issue when, on something like the right to an abortion, you flip-flop every 15 minutes. That shows essentially he has no values.

BASH: Congressman, special counsel Jack Smith filed a new indictment against Donald Trump this week for election interference even after the Supreme Court ruling on immunity.

And it comes as two pro-Trump Organizations are slated to hold a January 6 awards gala at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster to pay tribute to all J6 defendants.

Now, Trump has been invited to speak. Organizers say he hasn't ruled it out. What's your response to the fact that he's -- whether he goes or not, that he's allowing his property to be used for this event?

SCHIFF: Well, first of all, the Justice Department is exactly right to be refiling these charges after that just absurdly dangerous Supreme Court decision attempted to give immunity to a president to commit crimes while they're in office.

[09:25:07]

So he's right to refile these charges. But for the president to allow this event to go forward, celebrating these people who beat, who gassed, who bear-sprayed, who were responsible for the deaths of police officers who essentially try to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power, the first time in our history, shows you that for Donald Trump he could give a damn about the country, about the Constitution, about the oath of office.

It's only about him. And to glorify these people also is a green light to further violence should he lose the upcoming election,so just another dangerous, disrespectful acquiescence in lawlessness by Donald Trump and his enablers.

BASH: Congressman Adam Schiff, candidate for Senate in the great state of California, thank you so much for being here this morning.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Dana.

And up next: She's helping Donald Trump with debate prep and joined him at Arlington National Cemetery this week. Former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:32]

BASH: We're counting down to the Harris-Trump debate. And my next guest is a former 2020 Democratic presidential candidate and congresswoman who endorsed Trump this week and is helping him prepare for that debate.

Here with me now is former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

Thank you so much for being here.

FMR. REP. TULSI GABBARD (HI): Thanks, Dana. BASH: Vice President Harris' campaign manager released a memo this morning saying they expect former President Trump to be a -- quote -- "formidable opponent" on the debate stage.

Do you think Kamala Harris will be a formidable opponent as well? And how is the former president preparing to debate her?

GABBARD: Yes, I think Kamala Harris has a lot of experience. She is not to be underestimated.

President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris have very different records. This is a unique situation where we have two candidates who have served at the highest offices in the land, President Trump four years as President Kamala Harris, now almost four years as vice president, working alongside President Biden.

And so this will be an opportunity for voters to look at and compare and contrast those records. If I can be helpful to President Trump in any way, it really is just sharing experience that I had with her on that debate stage in 2020 and, frankly, helping to point out some ways that Kamala Harris has already shown that she is trying to move away from her record, move away from her positions, and how that contradicts the positions and statements that she is making now that she is the Democratic nominee.

BASH: And it is a remarkable situation in that you are a Democrat who debated her at a Democratic primary, and now you are helping the Republican nominee to debate her.

And on that, I remember, in 2020, you attacked Harris for being too aggressive as a prosecutor, which is the opposite from what Donald Trump is saying about her, as weak on crime. So which is it?

GABBARD: What I pointed out in that debate stage in the 2020 campaign was her hypocrisy.

It was how she was saying one thing and doing another, how she was prosecuting people for smoking marijuana and laughing about it when she was asked about it on a radio show. And I think this goes to the heart of many of these different issues that we're seeing now that Kamala Harris is trying to hide from voters is how she says her position is one thing, but her actions and her record show exactly the opposite.

And you can point to that on issues related to the economy, issues related to freedom of speech. She says she stands for freedom of speech. And yet, as we have seen time and time again, her and Joe Biden have taken actions both directly and indirectly to censor free speech.

Most recently, I can point to my own experience of this of how the Harris/Biden administration have added me to a secret domestic terror watch list the very day after Kamala Harris was endorsed by Joe Biden and I was on TV and warning the American people about what I saw as the dangers of a Kamala Harris presidency, taking action that was clearly political retaliation. They have done this to a lot of different people, which points to how

dangerous it is to have people in power so willing to abuse that power to go after political opponents.

BASH: I'm not familiar with the secret terror watch list. We're definitely going to follow up on that.

But I do want to move on to what is happening with regard to controversy after the former president visited Arlington National Cemetery this week. His campaign took photos and video of him in Section 60, where veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are buried, used it in a campaign video.

The Army also says that Trump staffers abruptly pushed aside a cemetery official who tried to enforce Arlington's rules prohibiting political activities. I know you were with Trump at least earlier in that day at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

Did you witness the altercation at Section 60?

GABBARD: I was there from the beginning with the laying of the wreaths with the family members, the Gold Star family members, and some of the survivors of that terrorist attack in that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.

[09:35:03]

I was with them at Section 60. And what I saw was a very grave and somber remembrance and honoring of those lives that were lost. And I saw President Trump spending time at the invitation of these Gold Star families with them. He was there for a few hours.

I did not see or hear about any kind of altercation until something came out in the news later on. The families were there grieving alongside President Trump. And it was a very special moment to really remember their names, remember their memories, and understand the true cost of war and the consequences of the decisions that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden made in the execution of that withdrawal.

BASH: Yes, and it is very clear that the former president was invited in his personal capacity, as you said, by a family of one of the service members who was killed about two years ago during the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

GABBARD: It was three years ago.

BASH: Three years ago. Thank you. Thank you for correcting me, yes.

GABBARD: Three years ago to the day on August 26.

BASH: Yes, three years ago.

The question is about the federal law and Arlington's rules that prohibit partisan or political activities at national cemeteries. And the military and also other members of other families who are buried right near there are upset about the campaign filming it and posting the video online.

Do you believe that was appropriate?

GABBARD: I checked with the campaign on this question, and they have exchanges with the officials at Arlington Cemetery. They were approved to bring a camera there to document this historic and momentous day that should not be forgotten by any American.

And to have a former president there and joining these Gold Star families, I know President Trump wanted to share that with others, especially given the fact that President Biden and Harris, I heard, were invited by some of these family members. They not only didn't come. They didn't even respond to that invitation.

And now to have Kamala Harris put this statement out yesterday saying that she stands with these families, she stands with the military and with veterans, you only have to look at the response that came from the Gold Star families of these 13 service members of how offended they were by that statement, given she has not made any effort, not on that third anniversary or any other time, to call them directly to offer her condolences and even apologies for their decisions that led to the loss of their loved ones.

BASH: Do you think that the campaign will release that communication that you're talking about? Because the Army is saying...

GABBARD: I thought they already had. But...

BASH: ... very clearly, very clearly that was -- that they broke the rules, because it was clearly put out online pictures, video meant as a part of his campaign.

GABBARD: I thought they already had. I was informed that they had come to an agreement, they could bring a camera there. And as far as I know, in the public statements I have seen from the Army is that the matter is closed.

BASH: I think the matter is closed about the altercation, alleged altercation, which you didn't see, but I'm not sure it's closed with the idea that they seem to have broken the rules and perhaps even federal law by putting out the campaign video.

I want to ask you about...

GABBARD: Here's -- I would just like to say one last thing on this, because I think it's important.

BASH: Please.

GABBARD: And I have seen a lot of the headlines and the stories and the concerns that people are raising about this.

But, to me, as a soldier and as someone who has been deployed to different war zones in the world -- and I have friends who are buried there at Section 60 -- what is more outrageous to me is that there wasn't universal coverage of the momentous day of the third anniversary of the loss of these 13 Gold Star families and the outrage that they feel that they -- that their loved ones are not getting the kind of coverage and memory that their great sacrifice deserves.

That is what everyone should be outraged about.

BASH: Well, yes, we have covered the horrible, horrible events three years ago, and have done so several times, over and over again. So I appreciate you also talking about their memories, because it is important.

Before you go, you said in an interview this week that you were interested in serving in a Trump administration, potentially as secretary of state, maybe secretary of defense. Have you discussed that with Donald Trump directly?

GABBARD: No, I haven't.

It's important for us right now to point out the difference between Kamala Harris and President Donald Trump, what kind of president and commander in chief they would be. And really the leading concern that I have is about this, about the contrast between their positions and their records and the fact that, as we sit here today, President Biden and Kamala Harris have us embroiled in wars in three different regions of the world, have us closer to the brink of World War III and nuclear war now than ever before, according to the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

[09:40:14]

And this should be of concern not just to Republicans and Democrats. It should be a concern to all Americans, because what's at question is our ability to have a future and to live in a free society where we can be peaceful and prosperous.

It's as personal for me as it should be personal for all Americans because it is our future that's on the line here in this decision that we as voters have to make about who we want our commander in chief to be.

BASH: Former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, thank you so much for being here this morning. I appreciate it.

GABBARD: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: And Donald Trump tries to have it both ways on the issue of abortion. What do voters think?

My panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm very pro-choice. There has to be some form of punishment.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, FORMER HOST, "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS": For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes.

I'm also proud to be the most pro-life president.

A lot of women don't know if they're pregnant in five or six weeks.

The number of weeks now, people are agreeing on 15, and I'm thinking in terms of that.

I think the six week is too short. It has to be more time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

My panel is here to discuss many things, including that.

Scott Jennings, I'm going to start with you.

What's up with Donald Trump on abortion? And where do you think he actually stands right now? And, most importantly, how is this affecting the conservative base that he needs to be confident in his stance on abortion?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think his position is basically what Ronald Reagan's position was. He's generally pro-life. He believes in the three exceptions, rape, incest, and life of the mother.

He's been a strong supporter of IVF technologies. And is he as conservative on it as some pro-lifers want him to be? Probably not. And that is an issue he's going to have to solve with them, although he does have a record of being a pro-life president.

And is he more conservative on it than Democrats want him to be? Yes, I actually think his position that he's running on is pretty moderate and has been pretty successful for Republican for a long time, going all the way back to Ronald Reagan.

I think, if I were in his shoes, I would just say, I am generally pro- life. My administration would be directionally pro-life. The Democrats would be directionally the other way. But I do understand that there are exceptions that have to be made and there are technologies that have to be supported, period. It's a moderate position.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So he's playing the game that he played in 2016, where he's trying to say one thing in one audience so they kind of hear what they want to hear, and then another thing in a different audience so that they hear what they want to hear. So that's what was going on this week with this back-and-forth about

the Florida bill, where he said one thing and then his team walked it back and then he had to clarify. So -- but to Scott's point, he does have a record, and we should pay very close attention.

He put justices who are hostile to IVF on the court, Amy Coney Barrett and a federal judge in Ohio. He also has a record of making it harder for women to get access to the health care that they need. I mean, when he says he's going to have this government mandate around IVF, is that before after he takes away the Affordable Care Act, not to mention his record of making it harder for poor women to access Medicaid, which is both important for the full range of reproductive health care services, including pregnancy for poor women.

So the record does matter. He is anti-choice. He has appointed the justices that overturned Roe v. Wade. Three times, Republicans have tried to put forward legislation for a national abortion ban. Hard to believe he wouldn't sign that if it got to his desk as president.

BASH: And, Shermichael, I should sort of set the table here with there is going to be measure on the ballot in Florida which would extend what is now a ban on abortion up until -- or after six weeks of pregnancy, would extend that to 22 or 24 weeks.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, I think the former president clearly needs to moderate somewhat on this.

We have a lot of data over two years that suggests this is just not a very strong issue for Republicans. But I got to tell you something, Dana. I mean, as a black man, you look at the number of people who get abortions, ethnically speaking, the demographic breakdown, and I am concerned about the fact that you see a lot of people of color getting abortions as a conservative.

Then my question becomes for Republicans, then what do we need to do to support policies to prohibit this? We need to support families. We need to increase child tax credit. We need to do whatever is necessary, I would argue, to not have that as an ultimate choice or the first choice, I should say, for struggling people out there.

And so that's something that I think about. And if my Democratic friends want to support allowing people to get abortions whenever they want, then more power to them. But the Republican Party and conservatives need to be the party that supports families, that are pro-families, that are support and pro-sex education in schools again, so that this isn't the immediate choice for people, that they have alternatives.

That's what I think the conservative message should be.

BASH: I'm want you to jump in, but I want to welcome you to STATE OF THE UNION, Meghan Hays.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Thank you.

BASH: Go ahead. I don't think this is necessarily about abortion and the weeks that

they wanted, six weeks, 24 weeks. This is about reproductive freedom. This is about taking away health care rights for women to be able to make their own choices. So it doesn't matter if you're black or white. This is about you deciding to take away -- or Republicans wanting to take away health care choices that women can take or that women can make on their own.

[09:50:01]

So I just think that we -- we can get like wrapped around the axle on the weeks and the different things. But this is about health care choices and freedoms that women get to make about their own body.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: I would just add to that, though, for black women, this is -- actually, numbers are going down.

SINGLETON: They're still up.

FINNEY: But also -- they're going down.

But part of the reason that in the black -- in the black community for women, we have higher maternal mortality rates. We have higher rates of pregnancy complications, which mean, to exactly Meghan's point a woman has to be able to make that decision, no matter how many weeks it is.

If you're for health, life of the mother...

JENNINGS: Even late term?

FINNEY: Health or life of the mother, yes, in some instances, that may be what is required, because that's -- in some instances, that may preserve this woman's ability to have children in the future.

And every single human being has a different health care situation, biology, that their doctor should be making those decisions with them, not politicians jumping in the bedroom telling them what to do.

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: I don't necessarily disagree with Karen's point about the differences in terms of health care and people's bodies requiring different levels of advisement.

FINNEY: But your party does.

SINGLETON: But my thought process is, again, I would not prefer for this to be the number one choice. And, oftentimes, it is the number one choice, when I don't think it has to be the number one choice.

And conservatives can support alternatives, Dana, which is my argument. I think that's...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Let me get Scott back in.

JENNINGS: I think the late-term question is important to voters.

I mean, look, Trump has preferred some kind of limitations on abortion. And I think Harris may not want any. And I do think a great many Americans think there are some reasonable limits that could be had, particularly around the late-term issue.

So I don't know if it's going to be the top issue in the election. It is for Democrats. But, to me, the late-term question is a big deal.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Let me just...

BASH: Go ahead.

FINNEY: Quinnipiac, though, just to say, reproductive freedom actually is ranked very high in terms of concerns people have.

BASH: I want to get your take on a moment that I have found fascinating in my interview with Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, which is her take on Donald Trump's recent comments about her race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: He suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes, questioning a core part of your identity.

HARRIS: Yes.

BASH: Any...

HARRIS: Same old tired playbook.

Next question, please.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: That's it?

HARRIS: That's it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Preview of the debate?

FINNEY: Sure, and a reason why Donald Trump's team is terrified of him having hot mics, because God only knows the things he's going to be saying.

As somebody who's biracial who has been -- has said, oh, you're not black enough my whole life, it is such a trope. And he knew it exactly what he was doing. But it's a distraction. And she understands that. That's not the

conversation that we need to be having in this election. It's got to be about how do we lower costs for people? How do we have more affordable housing? How do we support the middle class? And she, rightly, I think -- I thought it was an important question to ask, because it is something that's on the table.

And I thought she rightly said, "Next question."

SINGLETON: I feel like she pivoted to the issues she should have. I tip my hat to her there.

My advice for the former president, Dana, would be stick to the economy, immigration, and foreign policy. We're leading as a party on those issues. You win on those issues. That's what the voters want to hear.

HAYS: It's just -- it's just drawing a contrast between her character and his character. So I think that that's plain and simple for the voters that we will see at the debate.

JENNINGS: I don't know. I think the most important thing is somebody told her it was a change election. So she showed up with you and changed all of her positions.

What will be remembered from that interview was the word salad mess on your question about day one priorities and the fact that she changed supposedly everything she used to believe in. That will be the focus, I think, of Trump, along with her record as vice president in the debate.

BASH: All right, everybody, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it. Hope you have a nice rest of your holiday weekend.

Don't go anywhere, though. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:33]

BASH: What are the presidential candidates really promising voters? See what their records reveal about how they will lead. "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" premieres tonight at 8:00 p.m.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.