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State of the Union
Interview With Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI); Interview With North Carolina Attorney General Josh Stein; Interview With Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR). Aired 9-10a ET
Aired September 22, 2024 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:47]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Damage control. Donald Trump tries to shore up North Carolina...
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We win this state, I think it's going to be over fast.
TAPPER: ... after CNN reveals lewd and disturbing posts by Mark Robinson, who Trumped back for governor. Could that put North Carolina in Harris' column?
Robinson's opponent, Democratic attorney general Josh Stein, gives his first major interview since this story broke ahead.
And the play for women. Vice President Kamala Harris leans into her case.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's clear that they just don't trust women.
TAPPER: And Trump responds.
TRUMP: You will no longer be thinking about abortion.
TAPPER: But are there new warning signs for Harris with men?
Michigan Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer is next.
TAPPER: Plus: boiling point. Israel pummel's terrorist group Hezbollah in Lebanon, already reeling from the exploding pager attack. Could tensions spiral into a wider war?
Key Trump ally Republican Senator Tom Cotton is ahead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is, frankly, thrilled to watch democracy in action.
We're 44 days until the election, and early voters have begun to cast their ballots. With perhaps the closest presidential election in modern history, the candidates are on the campaign trail making their cases, Donald Trump rallying voters in North Carolina yesterday, notably absent the man he's warmly backed for governor, Mark Robinson, after CNN revealed that Robinson called himself a -- quote -- "black Nazi" and made a host of other rather disturbing comments on a porn Web site forum more than a decade ago.
Vice President Kamala Harris' campaign is hoping that that scandal helps her eke out a win in North Carolina, which Democrats have only done on the presidential level once in the last 44 years. The Harris campaign is highlighting Trump's past effusive praise for Lieutenant Governor Robinson as she tries to lean into attacks on Trump's anti- abortion stance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: These hypocrites want to start talking about this isn't the best interest of women and children? Well, where you been? Where you been when it comes to taking care of the women and children of America?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Trump trying to counter those attacks yesterday, he argued that women are poorer, less healthy and -- quote -- "more depressed and unhappy" than they were four years ago.
And joining me now is Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who campaigned with Harris this week. She's also the author of a new book, "True Gretch: What I've Learned About Life, Leadership, and Everything in Between." We have interviewed her about that book before. It's a fun read.
Governor, it's crunch time. You're on a tour supporting abortion rights with Vice President Harris. Donald Trump was rallying supporters in North Carolina Saturday afternoon. I want you to take a listen to what he said would happen if he wins in a few weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Women will be happy, healthy, confident and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He says that's because it will be back to the states, where it belongs. What's your response?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): That's just ludicrous.
I think this guy just doesn't understand what the average woman is confronting in her life in this country. And how could he? He's not lived a normal life, unlike Kamala Harris, who has worked hourly jobs, who knows how important it is that women have health care and access to the medical care that they need.
And so he's just deranged.
TAPPER: We're learning about deaths in Georgia that are being blamed on the state's six-week abortion ban, one of the strictest in the country.
Republican Governor Brian Kemp, who signed that ban into law, he says the procedures that these two women needed were actually perfectly legal and the problem is Democrats spreading -- quote -- "egregious misinformation and propaganda that fostered a culture of fear and confusion" -- unquote.
What's your response to that?
WHITMER: Well, if Republicans would just stay out of our doctor's offices, we would all be better off. We would all be safer. We would all be able to make our own decisions about our bodies.
There's no question that. Donald Trump's appointees to the United States Supreme Court has ripped these rights away from so many American women. Women have lost their lives. And if Governor Kemp wants to clarify the law and make it easier for women in Georgia to access the health care that they need, I'm sure that a lot of women would be grateful for that.
[09:05:16]
But, at the end of the day, it's not his business. He should stay out of the doctor's offices and these important decisions that should be vested in, and only in, the women who they impact.
TAPPER: You're from Michigan, a big union state. For the first time in almost three decades, the Teamsters union has decided to not endorse a presidential candidate. They have traditionally endorsed the Democrat.
This comes after Donald Trump won the poll of Teamsters union members by 25 points. One pro-Harris union official told Politico that that poll is a red flag reminiscent of the 2016 election, when Hillary Clinton underperformed among union households and among white men and ultimately did not win.
Do you think this is all a red flag for Harris, especially in Michigan?
WHITMER: I can just tell you this. This election is going to be close. We have always known that. That's what happens in these presidential elections.
And in a state like Michigan or Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, we know that this is going to be a close race. We also know that it was the Biden/Harris administration that saved the Teamsters' pensions. We know that there is one candidate who understands why collective bargaining matters.
And that's why the rank-and-file members of the Teamsters have come out robustly in favor of the Harris/Walz ticket. We welcome and appreciate their support, but we're in it to earn the support of all Americans. And we're going to stay focused on an economy that creates opportunity for every person.
And I welcome all the local Teamsters who've jumped on board. They're the ones on the ground, and they're the ones who are going to decide the fate of this election.
TAPPER: Your state's attorney general, Dana Nessel, charged almost a dozen individuals from the University of Michigan over the anti-Israel protests, among the charges, attempted ethnic intimidation, assaulting or obstructing a police officer, and on and on.
These are pro-Palestinian protesters who are being punished and prosecuted. Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, who is Palestinian, she called the charges from Nessel, who is Jewish, shameful.
And Tlaib said -- quote -- "It seems that the attorney general decided, if the issue was Palestine, she was going to treat it differently, and that alone speaks volumes about possible biases within the agency she runs" -- unquote.
Nessel responded by saying -- quote -- "Rashida Tlaib should not use my religion to imply I cannot perform my job fairly as attorney general. It's antisemitic and wrong" -- unquote.
Do you think that Tlaib's suggestion that Nessel's office is biased was antisemitic?
WHITMER: Listen, Jake, you know what? All I can say is that I know that our Jewish community is in pain, as is our Palestinian and Muslim and Arab communities in Michigan.
I know that seeing the incredible toll that this war has taken on both communities has been really, really challenging and difficult, and my heart breaks for so many.
But, as governor, my job is to make sure that both these communities are protected and respected under the law in Michigan, and that's exactly what I'm going to stay focused on.
TAPPER: But do you think Attorney General Nessel is not doing her job? Because Congresswoman Tlaib is suggesting that she shouldn't be prosecuting these individuals that Nessel says broke the law, and that she's only doing it because she's Jewish and the protesters are not. That's quite an accusation.
Do you think it's true?
WHITMER: Like I said, Jake, I'm not going to get in the middle of this argument that they're having. I can just say this. We do want to make sure that students are safe on
our campuses, and we recognize that every person has the right to make their statement about how they feel about an issue, a right to speak out, and I'm going to use every lever of mine to ensure that both are true.
TAPPER: Some states such as Georgia are enacting last-minute election rules changes, and some local officials are refusing to commit to certifying local results.
Earlier this year, a small county in your state of Michigan refused to certify results in a local recall election. Are you worried about potential problems or delays in Michigan?
WHITMER: Well, I think we should all be concerned. There certainly is an effort to undermine our confidence in our democratic institutions. There is an effort to misinform people.
And we know that there is false information that is rampant in everyday conversation in this country. And so I do think that we all need to be on high alert. I will also say this, though. In Michigan, we have codified a lot of different ways for people to participate in this election. We have increased penalties against those who threaten election workers, and we're going to make sure that our votes are cast and counted.
[09:10:05]
And I'm not worried about the outcome. We may have some difficulties along the way, because there are nefarious people who are trying to undermine our confidence in our elections, but we won't let them win.
TAPPER: Only a few weeks left until this is all over. We have heard other Democrats in your position suggesting that they want to see more from Vice President Harris and Governor Walz in terms of not necessarily speeches in controlled environments, but town halls with voters, more interviews, mixing it up, press conferences.
We're only 44 days to the election. Do you agree? Would you like to see more of that?
WHITMER: I have incredible confidence in both the vice president and Governor Walz. They have shown that they are happy warriors, they are able to answer tough questions, and they are eager to get back into the debate.
I know that the vice president has already accepted your invitation for a debate. We will see if the former president has the guts to take her on.
TAPPER: All right, Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much.
WHITMER: Thank you.
TAPPER: My next guest has been floated as a potential secretary of defense in a second Donald Trump administration. I'm going to ask Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton what that second Trump term might look like next.
And then what does the scandal in North Carolina mean for Trump's chances there in November? The Democrat running for governor joins me for his first major interview since this scandal about his opponent broke.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:53]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.
President Biden will meet with world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly this week, with the Secret Service already on high alert after that second assassination attempt on former President Trump just one week ago. That's all as the simmering crisis in the Middle East begins to flare up even more and the terrorist group Hezbollah in Lebanon retaliates against Israel after the surprise attacks.
Joining us now, top Trump ally Republican Senator Tom Cotton, a member of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services Committee who also served in the military himself.
Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
So, for almost a year now, Israel has been fighting on five different fronts, Hamas to its west, Hezbollah to the north, the Houthis to the south, Iran and its proxies in Iraq and Syria in the east and northeast. And just this morning, there was a new round of rocket fire and airstrikes between Israel and Hezbollah.
How concerned are you about a bigger, larger regional war and the United States being pulled in or voluntarily going into the war?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Well, if there is a larger war, it's not going to be by accident. Wars don't happen by accident. They happen because -- in this case because Iran and its terrorist network all around Israel, as you just laid out, Jake, are intent on destroying Israel.
A lot of attention has been focused over the last 11 months, rightly so, on Hamas to the south. But I think many Americans probably don't appreciate just how much Hezbollah from Lebanon has been striking into Israel. You still have 80,000 Israelis who have had to flee their homes in the north and be evacuated into friends or families' homes or hotels.
Just to put that in perspective, it would be as if the entire populations of Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont had to flee to Boston or New York or Philadelphia because we're having cross-border strikes from Canada. No civilized nations can tolerate that, can allow their people to live under those conditions.
Israel has every right to defend itself and to go on offense against a terrorist organization in Lebanon. And we need to give them the tools to defeat both Hamas in the south and Hezbollah in the north and defend their own people.
TAPPER: Is the United States not giving tools that Israel needs?
COTTON: No, not -- no, first off, they're not giving them the political and diplomatic support that they needed from the very beginning.
Rather than trying to put constant pressure on Israel, more pressure than we put on Iran and its terrorist networks, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris would simply adopt a policy to let Israel win and back them to the hilt, the war on Hamas probably would have ended a long time ago.
Earlier this year, there was a de facto partial arms embargo on Israel, not just the 2,000-pound bombs, which they do need to hit Hamas in its deep and buried tunnels, but mortar rounds and artillery shells and small-arms ammunition. Now they even have a tractor embargo in Israel.
So Israeli soldiers are going to be exposed to minefields that can't be cleared because the Biden and Harris administration wants to allow them to get access to the tractors and the bulldozers they need to clear those minefields.
TAPPER: So...
COTTON: Consistently, the Biden/Harris administration has put more pressure on Israel than it has put on Israel's enemies. That's probably had the effect of prolonging the fighting.
TAPPER: A lot of the protests against Netanyahu are coming from within Israel itself. You have seen hundreds of thousands of Israelis critical of how Netanyahu is waging this war, whether or not he's emphasizing too much going against Hamas, as opposed to rescuing the hostages.
I spoke, as I often do, with families of these hostages. And they said point blank that Netanyahu is not doing enough to bring their loved ones home safely. Here's just a sample of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN, FATHER OF HAMAS HOSTAGE: I think all Israelis are done listening to Prime Minister Netanyahu, because, clearly, there's a gap between what he says in terms of his commitment to getting the hostages home and his actions.
ADI ALEXANDER, FATHER OF HAMAS HOSTAGE: This pager "Mission: Impossible" action, it's like tweeting agony with more agony. This vicious cycle of violence needs to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So those were American hostages, four of them still alive and three of them represented in this group dead, but wanting these two individuals, wanting their parents and their sons' bodies to come home.
But this is a legitimate criticism from Israeli Americans and Israelis. What do you say to them when they say this escalation hurts?
[09:20:06]
COTTON: Well, first off, I express the deepest heartfelt sympathy for them and the agony they can go through. One can only imagine that.
But if you look at what's happened over the last 11 months, the only time Hamas has released hostages or hostages have been rescued is when Israel's putting maximum military pressure on Hamas. If the Biden/Harris administration had backed Israel from the beginning, not only would this war likely have already ended with fewer civilian casualties, but we would have gotten more hostages out earlier and alive.
What Hamas is doing, though, is continually moving the goalposts on any kind of hostage exchange for duly convicted terrorists that Hamas wants back. And the Biden/Harris administration keeps allowing them to move the goalposts.
I mean, remember, the current leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar, a bloodthirsty genocidal maniac, used to be in an Israeli prison. He was released in a previous swap. So while my heart breaks for any parent who has to live through this, I think the Israeli government understands that the only way these hostages might come back alive is to put maximum military pressure on Hamas, not to try to trust a terrorist organization to honor their word or to make any kind of deal.
TAPPER: Let's turn to the 2024 election, because at an event earlier this week ostensibly about combating antisemitism, former President Trump suggested that, if he loses, it will be the fault of Jewish voters. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Any Jewish person that votes for her, especially now, her or the Democrat Party, should be able to have their head examined.
If I don't win this election -- and I've been very good. You know, they say Trump's been right about everything. In my opinion, the Jewish people would have a lot to do with the loss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Are you comfortable with that, with Donald Trump saying, if he loses, preemptively it's the fault of the Jews, a group already experiencing a rise of antisemitism in this country, from the left and the right, but still, preemptively, it's the fault of the Jews?
COTTON: Well Jake, Donald Trump has been saying things like this for at least 11 months since the October 7 attacks.
I think the only reason the Democrats latched onto it this week is they see the polling that reflects Donald Trump winning record high amounts of Jewish voters who are Republicans.
The point he's been making all along is that any Jewish voter, Christian voter, any other kind of voter who cares about Israel, who cares about a relationship with Israel should not vote for Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. Joe Biden has not backed Israel very much over the last 11 months. Kamala Harris has been much worse.
She treats him like a school -- she treats Benjamin Netanyahu like a school child. She's an assistant principal who's constantly scolding him. She didn't even perform her constitutional duty to preside over the joint session of Congress when he spoke to Congress.
TAPPER: But I'm not talking about Israel. I'm talking about American Jewish voters.
The American Jewish Committee said -- quote -- "Whoever a majority of the Jewish community votes for, Jews, roughly 2 percent of the U.S. population, cannot and should not be blamed for the outcome of the election. Setting up anyone to say we lost because of the Jews is outrageous and dangerous. Thousands of years of history have shown that scapegoating Jews can lead to antisemitic hate and violence."
That's the nonpartisan American Jewish Committee. I have never heard you say anything like that: If we lose, it will be the fault of the Jews.
COTTON: But, Jake, Donald Trump, again, has been saying for months that anyone who cares about Israel, anyone who cares about the fate of the U.S.-Israel alliance should vote for him, they shouldn't vote for Kamala Harris, because Kamala Harris has consistently been the most anti-Israel voice in this administration.
TAPPER: You keep talking about Israel. I'm talking about Jewish voters who vote for any number of reasons on any number of issues.
COTTON: And he was at an event talking about combating antisemitism here and around the world. When was the last time Kamala Harris spoke at an event about combating antisemitism?
TAPPER: Her husband is Jewish and holds -- and is in charge of a group combating -- about combating antisemitism in the United States.
COTTON: But she's consistently been opposed to what Israel needs to win.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Again, I keep talking about Jewish voters in the United States and you keep talking about another country.
COTTON: A lot of Jewish voters, just like a lot of Christian voters, care deeply about the fate of the Jewish nation and the status of our relationship with Israel.
TAPPER: Are you comfortable with him blaming it on the Jews preemptively? COTTON: The point he is making is that anyone that cares about that
relationship shouldn't vote for Kamala Harris. They should vote for him.
And, again, he's been saying things like this, not just at antisemitism events, but speaking to Christians who care about Israel as well, for months. The only reason the Democrats have latched onto it is now is that poll shows he is winning a record number of Jewish voters.
TAPPER: No, no, no, this is the first time I've -- he has ever said: If I lose, it will be the fault of Jews.
This is -- believe me, I happen to have a pretty good ear for when people say things like this. And that's the first time he's ever said that.
Just yes or no, are you comfortable with him using that language?
COTTON: Jake, it's the same kind of language he's been using for months.
TAPPER: That doesn't mean it's OK.
COTTON: But it's -- his point -- his point -- Jake, he's the most pro-Israel president we have ever had. He has Jewish grandchildren.
Of course...
TAPPER: Kamala Harris has a Jewish husband. That doesn't mean anything to you.
COTTON: Of course -- well, it means something to you, because you brought it up.
[09:25:00]
TAPPER: Because you were talking about antisemitism and he's in charge of the group combating antisemitism.
COTTON: Jake, it's the Democratic Party that has a large and growing antisemitic wing. That's the party where antisemitism has festered now for years.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Let me just say, as somebody who has been at the receiving end of antisemitism from the left and the right, there's a lot of it out there. It's from the left and the right.
COTTON: Jake, do you think all those college encampments at Columbia and elsewhere, do you think those are conservative students? Of course not. They're radical left-wing students.
TAPPER: But you know what? When I was watching the Republican National Convention, I heard Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson speak. And Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, who is your party's nominee for governor in North Carolina, he has been saying antisemitic things for years, for years. He said that the movie "Black Panther" -- this is on his own Facebook under his own name -- the movie "Black Panther," created -- a character created by two Jewish comic book writers -- was -- quote -- "created to pull the shekels out of your Schvartze pockets by Jews."
And then in the last week, we have heard that he actually was in the past posting on a porn site calling himself a black Nazi, praising "Mein Kampf," saying that Adolf Hitler would have been better than Barack Obama.
That is your party's nominee for governor in North Carolina, who has been antisemitic for years. Do you like him? You think he should be the next governor of North Carolina?
COTTON: Look, I have seen these allegations, Jake, and they're concerning allegations. He owes the people of North Carolina...
TAPPER: The shekels thing was under his name on his Facebook page.
COTTON: He owes the people of North Carolina more answers about it.
But we're talking about the presidential race here that matters to everyone, not just the people in one state. Kamala Harris owes the American people a lot more answers, like, for instance, what she would do about the wars in the Middle East, not just in Gaza, but Hezbollah versus Israel, for that matter, the Iranian-backed terrorists in Yemen that continually target American sailors.
Kamala Harris owes a lot of answers to the American people.
TAPPER: Do you think that Trump should still support Mark Robinson in North Carolina?
COTTON: I will leave that to President Trump. And, most importantly, I will leave it to the people of North Carolina. That is one state.
We're talking about a presidential race that is going to affect every American at a time when a third of Americans can't even afford their groceries.
TAPPER: All right, I just want to thank you for coming on right now. And good to see you, Senator.
COTTON: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: I don't disagree that Kamala Harris should answer some more questions and do some more interviews. I will just -- for the record.
Coming up next: His opponent called himself a black Nazi online. The man running against Mark Robinson in North Carolina joins me for his first major interview after the scandal broke.
That's ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:31:45]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
North Carolina has not voted for a Democrat for president since 2008. But now Democrats in that state are feeling optimistic, especially after CNN revealed a host of truly disturbing posts on the pornographic site Nude Africa, posts made by the Republican candidate for governor, the current lieutenant governor, Mark Robinson, who's a Republican.
Joining us now for his first major interview, the Democrat running against Robinson, North Carolina Attorney General Josh Stein.
Attorney General Stein, so, obviously, on this online pornography message board, Robinson posted profane, racist, sexually explicit content. He called himself a black Nazi. He expressed support for slavery. He talked about peeping on women in the showers when he was a teenager. It goes on.
That's just the stuff, by the way, I can say on TV.
Robinson has denied the posts, saying -- quote -- "These are not our words and this is not anything that is characteristic of me" -- unquote. Do you believe his denial?
JOSH STEIN (D), NORTH CAROLINA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I don't. I don't.
If you look at what he said on the posts, it was in keeping on what he has said publicly on Facebook that are still on his Facebook page. Mark Robinson is absolutely unfit to be the governor of North Carolina. And that was true before your story broke last Thursday. The story has only served to underline and put an exclamation point on that fact.
I mean, he embraced Hitler. He compliments Hitler. He says he's a Nazi. He buys little toy S.S. soldiers. I mean, he says, slavery, he wants to bring it back, things that defy comprehension. But those only are in keeping with what he has said throughout his entire public life. He says women are not called to lead and they have abortions because they cannot keep their skirts down.
He says that gay people are filth and even more vile insults than that, teachers are wicked people. From a church pulpit this summer, he yelled: "Some folks need killing."
This man is utterly unqualified, unfit to be the governor of North Carolina, and we're going to do everything in our power to keep that from happening.
TAPPER: So, former President Trump was campaigning in North Carolina yesterday at a campaign rally. Lieutenant Governor Robinson was not there, even though, obviously, Trump has been a supporter of Robinson for years, supported him in the -- in his primary.
What do you make of Robinson's absence from the Trump rally?
STEIN: I -- look, Robinson exists because Donald Trump has lifted him up throughout.
And candidates up and down the ballot in North Carolina need to have -- they need to be held accountable for supporting Mark Robinson and being part of his entire campaign. They have been supporting him. And now it looks like folks want to run away from him, but they have lifted -- Mark Robinson could not exist without the support of Donald Trump.
TAPPER: Former Republican North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory, who lost reelection in 2016, told CNN that he thinks this controversy would work to the Democrats' advantage and probably does work against President Trump.
Is there a reverse coattail effect, do you think? Obviously, Robinson versus you, this is going to have an impact on that race? But do you think the Robinson controversy can actually help Kamala Harris win in North Carolina?
[09:35:05]
STEIN: Yes, I'm not a political scientist, but there has been incredibly exciting newfound energy for the Harris/Walz campaign here in North Carolina.
She had 25,000 people at a rally a week ago. So she's got momentum. I think she's going to win. But I am absolutely focused on winning my race, which is to defeat Mark Robinson. We have got a completely different world view.
I believe, fundamentally, that our democracy is based on equality. It's what drives my public life. Mark Robinson does not believe that. He thinks that there are some people who are good and acceptable and other people who are not. It's about hate, not hope.
It's about division, not unity. We have so much potential to do better here in North Carolina, but we have to win. My race is going to be incredibly close. Kamala Harris' race is going to be close.
If folks want to help or learn more, then go to JoshStein.org.
TAPPER: Vice President Harris is facing calls from even many Democrats to branch out in her public appearances, do town halls with voters, do more interviews, do a press conference, take more questions about her positions, not necessarily from the likes of Oprah, but maybe more like, I don't know, me or other network anchors.
Do you agree with that? Forget the me part of it. Do you agree with it, she should be doing more, mixing it up a little bit more?
STEIN: Well, I -- far be it from me to advise the vice president on how to run her campaign. She went from nowhere to neck-and-neck, so I have got nothing to advise her on.
All I can tell you is I'm here talking to you. I'm traveling the state. I'm going to be -- I'm in Rocky Mount right now, getting ready to go to church. I will be in Pittsboro later, Durham after that. My obligation is to get in front of as many North Carolinians as I can to talk about my vision for a brighter future, one that is positive, welcoming, forward-looking, as opposed to the vision of my opponent in this race, which is division, violence, and hate.
Ours is a brighter future. His is a darker past. And that's the choice voters of North Carolina are going to have, and I'm going to try to help them see that so that they can make the right choice. And I think, if voters know what's at stake, the crossroads where North Carolina finds itself, they will make the right decision.
TAPPER: Let's say I'm a conservative Republican voter in North Carolina and I really am uncomfortable with Lieutenant Governor Robinson. Why would I vote for you? You're a progressive Democrat.
STEIN: Because the issues I am focused on, continuing to grow the economy and make it work for more people, safer neighborhoods, stronger schools with well-paid teachers, where our personal freedoms are protected, these issues are not blue issues. They are not red issues. They are North Carolina issues.
And I have a track record of fighting for the people of North Carolina and delivering, whether it's tackling the opioid crisis or eliminating what had been the largest backlog of untested rape kits in the country, or fighting for our public schools.
So I think that conservative voters, moderate voters, progressive voters, they can see in me a candidate who will be dedicated every day to trying to help folks have a better chance of a brighter future.
TAPPER: All right, Attorney General Stein, thanks so much for joining us today. I appreciate it.
STEIN: Thanks.
TAPPER: The campaign is in the home stretch, but there's plenty of time for more surprises. We will take a walk down memory lane when the panel joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:43:15]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Twenty-four years ago, I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The stock markets suffer historic losses.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. TRUMP: You can do anything.
BILLY BUSH, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab 'em by the (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
They have discovered new e-mails.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was far more than merely a Supreme Court justice, has died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
A reminder that anything can happen in the 44 days between now and Election Day.
My panel joins me now.
Let's start with the two new polls out this morning showing that Kamala Harris is leading Donald Trump nationally. One of them, an NBC News poll shows 48 percent of voters have a positive view of Harris. Maybe even more significant than the head-to-head races is this improvement when it comes to positive versus negative view.
That's a 16-point jump from July. Are you surprised by that? Or...
BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, she had a good debate and she's had a good post-convention bounce.
But in the end, this race still comes down to Pennsylvania, secondarily North Carolina and Georgia. I think she's weaker than most Democratic candidates are in Pennsylvania. Polls show it. "The Washington Post" had it tied this there this week. And Republicans win North Carolina. We won 10 of the last 12 races there, 10 of the last 12 Senate races.
So that's Donald Trump's path, Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think a really important data point in that NBC poll, though, is that voters, by I think a double-digit margin, say that Kamala Harris represents change.
TAPPER: That's wild. I saw that.
BEDINGFIELD: Donald Trump does not, which -- that is -- to me, that is almost...
TAPPER: It's like 47 to 36 or something.
BEDINGFIELD: Yes.
TAPPER: Yes.
BEDINGFIELD: So, look, that is almost -- to me, that is almost the ball game, not in terms of the election is done.
TAPPER: She's an incumbent vice president.
BEDINGFIELD: But the point is, her task here is to define herself as the change candidate.
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That's exactly where that comes in for the change candidate portion of this, because the American people still don't necessarily know where Kamala Harris stands on the issues.
So since there is a vacuum of information that exists, and polling is panning that out, that people are still asking questions about what her policy positions are. Of course, that's going to lead to her being the change candidate, because it's just a big question as this point, as to where she's going to land on fracking and the economy.
[09:45:16]
TAPPER: Yes, people can project what they view on her, whether or not that's accurate.
PERRINE: She's running as a generic Dem at this point.
TAPPER: Well, yes, kind of, yes.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Keep in mind, the only vice president in our history that we all thought of as really running things and being in charge was Dick Cheney, right?
No other vice president that we thought of has been somebody we thought was actually making decisions. The president always made the decisions. And I think that was true in this administration.
Look, the image...
TAPPER: That doesn't mean she represents change, though. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: No, but if people don't think that she was actually the one that was doing all the policy...
TAPPER: Sure.
SIMMONS: ... they may feel funny about, they're not going to make her responsible for all of that.
But if we do the image...
TAPPER: Yes.
SIMMONS: ... she -- Trump suffers just from the two-shot, right?
When you put the two of them up next to each other, she's young and she's female, and she's a person of color. TAPPER: She's almost 20 years younger than him, yes.
SIMMONS: And he's older and he's male. And he just really looks like the old days.
And what people remember -- and we have seen some of this week in the North Carolina story -- is, it all is kind of a mess. And I think a lot of people just want to get away from the mess and move on to something different.
TODD: No incumbent vice president is any fresher than yesterday's socks.
(LAUGHTER)
TODD: I mean, the fact that they're letting her run a change campaign, that's a real problem.
And if you're the Trump campaign, you have got to push back on that.
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I was just going to say, I mean, I think you give some credit to the Harris campaign for having navigated these last now six, seven weeks, since she went to the top of the ticket.
It was not a foregone conclusion that the campaign was going to go as well as it has been going for her. And I think they have really put a premium on driving this contrast between the politics that Trump has embodied for the last 10 years that people are tired of. They're tired of the hostility. They're tired of the incessant whining, the constant complaining, the threats to democracy.
Her team has been really smart about making that the jumping-off point for change, rather than allowing the change dynamic to be centered on President Biden's economic policy.
TAPPER: So, Erin, can I just -- I want to show something to you, because this is -- I was just on social media yesterday and I was just looking, what's the latest stuff that we can talk about with the panel?
Here is what Mr. Trump put on social media yesterday. It's about selling Trump coins for the low, low price of $100. This comes after previous $60 Trump Bibles, $99 NFT trading cards, $399 Trump shoes.
Take a look at this new message from the Trump team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are announcing the launch of Trump Coins, a true symbol of American greatness. Each coin comes with a certificate of authenticity with my signature to ensure you have purchased a real Trump Coin.
I have seen a lot of coins out there using my very beautiful face. I'm a very beautiful guy, I'm only kidding. But they are not the official coin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: All right, so, like, this isn't from like 30 years ago. This is yesterday.
(LAUGHTER)
PERRINE: It's not uncommon for the Trump team to do something different when it comes to fund-raising.
In the 2020 campaign, we had Trump straws.
TAPPER: Was that for the campaign?
PERRINE: My understanding...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I don't know that it was.
(LAUGHTER)
PERRINE: If it's not for the campaign -- it's not uncommon for Trump to try and do different sales tactics, even if it's the campaign or not. You look at him, he sold Bibles, he's selling coins, he sold the photo book about his time in the presidency, and they have done it on the campaign side as well with Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: This is -- Tom Cotton tried this earlier, which is just like, I note something odd, and he says he's been doing this for years.
Yes, that doesn't mean it's not odd.
PERRINE: I didn't say it's not odd.
(LAUGHTER)
PERRINE: I mean, that looks like an infomercial where he said there and was like, and you will get a certificate of authenticity.
TAPPER: Yes.
He also said they were limited edition, and they're not.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: It said on the -- you go to the page and it says unlimited supply.
BEDINGFIELD: Don't forget, he's also still raising money for his legal defense fund, by the way.
I mean, this actually goes to a really important point here, which is that the man is an adjudicated convicted criminal. And that is something that is registering in people's minds. And I think, when you see him out kind of like hawking shoes or coins, it's a good reminder. Why is he raising money? Well, in part for his own legal defense.
TAPPER: So let's go to...
SIMMONS: And the hundreds of millions of dollars of fines that he's facing.
BEDINGFIELD: That too. That too.
TAPPER: Let's go to what's going on in North Carolina, because I do want to get -- here's two responses. One of them is a Harris ad tying Lieutenant Governor Robinson to Donald Trump, and then we're going to get the Republican GOP committee in North Carolina response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think you're better than Martin Luther King.
LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON (R-NC), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We could pass a bill saying, you can't have an abortion in North Carolina for any reason. Abortion in this country, it's about killing a child because you aren't responsible enough to keep your skirt down.
TRUMP: I have been with him a lot. I have gotten to know him and he's outstanding.
NARRATOR: Donald Trump and Mark Robinson, they're both wrong for North Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, here's the tweet from the North Carolina Republican Party.
"The left needs this election to be a personality contest, not a policy contest, because if voters are focused on policy, Republicans win on Election Day. The left can try to smear Mark Robinson all they want, but when voters go to the polls on Election Day, they're going to be asking one simple question. Are you better off now than you were four years ago? The answer is overwhelmingly no. And that's why Republicans will win on November 5."
[09:50:03]
I understand why that's their message. I don't know that that's what people are going to be thinking.
TODD: I have never seen an election where someone below the presidential candidate influenced the top of it, much less Donald Trump, who's the most known, most polarizing person in American politics.
And we have an incumbent administration that's unpopular. This election in North Carolina is going to be between, were you better off four years ago than you are now?
BEDINGFIELD: I'm not sure I agree with that. I think this is a question of whether Robinson's comments, which are beyond the pale vile. I mean, this is not -- like, these are things that are appalling.
And I think we're talking about a question of voter turnout and suppressing turnout. I do broadly agree that there are probably not a lot of Trump voters who are going to say, Robinson's conduct impacts my decision to vote for Trump.
I do think there are voters who are going to say, Trump's chaos, plus this completely unacceptable, vile language from the gubernatorial candidate, I'm staying home. And, remember, Biden only lost North Carolina by a percentage point and a half, yes, 1.4.
TAPPER: One percentage point, yes. Crazy.
PERRINE: I mean, this is going to be very close in North Carolina.
And, to Brad's point, we have never seen where it's been reverse coattails to pull down on the ticket. But Republicans need to be looking at a couple of things now in the state. One, is there going to be depressed turnout for Republicans because they're just not excited about the fact that they might pull the lever for Mark Robinson?
And they need to be looking at what strategy -- Trump's going to tell you how he feels about North Carolina in the coming days. Are they going to be changing out their ads? Are they going to be going more negative on Kamala to try to drive up her negatives to keep her voters out of this?
That ad was cut very quickly, but didn't include any of the new reporting from CNN, which tells me they had that in the can ready to go and jumped at the news to be able to try to tie them together. So, this isn't necessarily a strategy shift for them, as it is accelerating putting that ad out because they saw the time.
So, the question is, can Donald Trump hold the Republican coalition together and bring in a few more voters, like he's been able to do in North Carolina, to keep the state to Republicans? Or is Kamala Harris going to be able to depress Republican turnout to be able to turn that state?
TAPPER: If you were advising Donald Trump, would you say stand by Mark Robinson or would you say cut or would you just say kind of like try to have it both ways, as he seems to be doing it now?
PERRINE: Well, Donald Trump's always going to do it where he's going to have it both ways. I would say cut and run your own race if you're any Republican in the state of North Carolina.
SIMMONS: Well, yes. Remember, there are also a lot of new voters in North Carolina that weren't there in the last election.
Domenico Montanaro from NPR has done an excellent piece where he actually chronicles the number of voters who have moved from other states into North Carolina and people who've left North Carolina to go to other states. So it's a huge change in the electorate.
So now the question is, are a bunch of people who don't have a lot of history there, they are going to be the first time encountering this, and do they really want to sign up with a party with Mark Robinson and Donald Trump at the head of it?
TAPPER: All right, we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:57:20]
TAPPER: Hillary Clinton would like a word. She's weighing in on the Harris/Walz campaign and another Trump run. Watch Fareed Zakaria's interview with the former secretary of state. That's next.
Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.
We will see you tomorrow on "THE LEAD."
