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State of the Union
Interview With Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC); Interview With National Security Council Coordinator For Strategic Communications John Kirby; Interview With Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D-IL). Aired 9-10a ET
Aired September 29, 2024 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:52]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): On edge. More Israeli strikes overnight after the killing of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Could the U.S. be drawn into a larger conflict with Iran?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Time for a cease-fire.
TAPPER: White House adviser John Kirby is here next.
And dark days, heated rhetoric from Donald Trump...
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your town will be transformed into a Third World hellhole.
TAPPER: ... as he escalates false personal attacks.
TRUMP: Kamala is mentally impaired.
TAPPER: What might this mean for November?
South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham is coming up.
Plus: head-to-head. The folksy governor who's lowering expectations...
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had 24 kids in my high school class, and none of them went to Yale.
TAPPER: ... will debate an opponent who thrives on the fight.
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We don't need to prepare for a debate with Tim Walz.
TAPPER: What are the stakes for their face-off?
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Everything we care about, everything, is under siege.
TAPPER: Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker joins me exclusively.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is 37 days to go.
It's the final sprint of the presidential campaign and it's still anybody's race. Yesterday Donald, Trump offered Wisconsin voters a -- quote -- "dark vision" of the future, warning, in apocalyptic terms, about what his loss would mean and making the rather absurd claim that his opponent, Vice President Kamala Harris, is mentally disabled, after Vice President Harris gave a tough speech at the southern border in a remarkable policy and focus turnaround by the Democratic nominee.
But, this week, outside events overshadowed the presidential campaign. The Southeastern United States is still struggling from the -- quote -- "biblical devastation" wrought by Hurricane Helene, with dozens killed in six states and many lives still at risk because of rising floodwaters in North Carolina, and profoundly destabilizing news from the Middle East, where the Lebanese have just recovered the body of Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Iran-backed Hezbollah, which the U.S. government considers a terrorist group, who was killed by an Israeli strike on Friday.
President Biden said the killing gave Nasrallah's victims and their families a -- quote -- "measure of justice." But as Israel struck more Hezbollah targets overnight, President Biden also called for a cease- fire in the region, as U.S. officials watch carefully for Iran's threatened retaliation for Nasrallah's death and the possibility that Israel could move ground forces into Lebanon.
Joining me now to discuss, White House national security communications adviser Admiral John Kirby.
Admiral, thanks for joining us.
So, first of all, is President Biden glad that Israel took this action?
JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: I don't think anybody's mourning the loss of Mr. Nasrallah, a known terrorist, a guy with American blood on his hands, as well as Israeli blood on his hands. This is a terrorist organization. He was the leader of it. And I think people are safer without him walking around.
But they will try to recover. We're watching to see what they do to try to fill this leadership vacuum. It's going to be tough that much of their command structure has now been wiped out.
TAPPER: So the Israeli strike targeting Nasrallah flattened several large buildings in the heart of densely populated Beirut, the suburb of Beirut.
Do you have any indication at all what the civilian death toll might be?
KIRBY: I don't think we have an exact number, Jake.
What we certainly assume -- in fact, I can go so far as to say we know that there are civilian casualties here. There's no question about that.
TAPPER: I mean, dozens, hundreds, thousands?
KIRBY: I don't think we can quantify it right now. We're in touch with our Israeli counterparts about that.
Each single civilian death is a tragedy. And, certainly, while, again, nobody's mourning Nasrallah's death, we certainly do mourn any loss of civilian life.
TAPPER: So, before President Obama gave the order for SEAL Team Six to go in and take out bin Laden, there was talk of an airstrike against the compound. And the decision was made to not do so, A, because they weren't sure about the intelligence, and, B, because they were worried about -- Obama was worried about civilian casualties.
The Israelis went a different direction. Obviously, their intelligence was solid. But do you think Israel made the right decision doing it the way they did it?
KIRBY: Again, I think having decimated the command structure of Hezbollah certainly works to the Israelis' advantage. It's actually good for the region, good for the world.
[09:05:09]
I will let the Israelis speak to the decision-making process they made, why they chose to go this route. We are continuing to talk to the Israelis about what the right next steps are. And as you rightly said in the opening here, the president continues to believe that there needs to be time and space for diplomacy.
And that means we'd like to see a cease-fire in place, so that that diplomacy can breathe.
TAPPER: Iran condemned the killing of an Israel and said the U.S. is -- quote -- "complicit" in Israel's actions.
How concerned is President Biden about the potential for a direct conflict, a direct military conflict between Israel and Iran and maybe even involving the United States? Iran certainly has tried any number of things, including recently hacking President Trump's campaign, talking about an assassination attempt on President Trump.
How concerned is President Biden about a possible direct confrontation between the U.S. and Iran?
KIRBY: We have been concerned almost since the beginning of this conflict about it broadening, widening, becoming a regional war.
That's why, again, the president and the G7 leaders just a few days ago talked about trying to put -- calling for a 21-day cease-fire. And everything else that the president's been doing, including, Jake, adding force capability, military forces to the region, is designed to prevent that exact outcome. Now, we will watch and see. We have seen the rhetoric coming out of
Tehran. We will watch and see what they do. We certainly will make sure that we have the capability to not only defend our troops and our facilities, diplomats and military, as well as Israel itself, if it comes to that. Hopefully, it won't.
TAPPER: There was a State Department spokesman the other day who said that he never -- he didn't know of any incident in recent history where escalation led to de-escalation.
And that is obviously a concern when it comes to these big strikes by Israel, no matter how abhorrent the targets, if there are civilians that are taken out in the process. Do you agree that escalation seldom leads to de-escalation, as the State Department spokesman said?
KIRBY: I think what we would agree on is that there needs to be an effort to de-escalate here.
Again, Israel has a right to defend itself and a responsibility to do so. I mean, Hezbollah, under Mr. Nasrallah, was a lethal threat to the Israeli people. They want to get their families back to those homes and kibbutzes in the north. We want to see that too.
We believe and continue to believe that an all-out war with Hezbollah, certainly with Iran, is not the way to do that. If you want to get those folks back home safely and sustainably, we believe that a diplomatic path is the right path.
TAPPER: The Biden administration, quite frankly, seemed caught off guard by the strike. We were told that the president didn't find out about it until planes were already in the air.
When the secretary of defense landed at Andrews, he seemed to distance himself from the strike. He said the U.S. was not involved in the operation. And, before that, the U.S. thought that there had been buy- in from Prime Minister Netanyahu as to a cease-fire with Hezbollah.
But then, ultimately, he was not on board. How strained are relations between President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu?
KIRBY: These are two guys who have known each other for 40 years, Jake, and they have never and I suspect they will never agree on every single aspect of foreign policy and what we're trying to get done in the Middle East.
But they do agree on the big thing. And the big thing is the safety and security of the state of Israel and trying to avoid an all-out war that would put the people of Israel at even greater risk. They agree on that.
They're going to continue to talk and they will be candid and forthright with one another. Israel -- I think, sometimes, it's easy to forget that it's a sovereign state. And it's a small state. And they live in a really tough neighborhood. And they suffered the worst terrorist attack in their history almost exactly a year ago. They're under a lot of threat. And we have got to make sure that they
know that America is going to continue to support them in beating back that threat, that we're going to keep the force capability we need to help defend them, if possible, at the same time have some tough conversations with them about how they do that and what the next steps they're going to take.
TAPPER: Well, when you say how they do that, what you're talking about is whether or not the Israeli government and Netanyahu do enough to protect civilian casualties...
KIRBY: Yes, sure.
TAPPER: ... whether or not they do enough to take into account innocent Palestinians, innocent Lebanese.
And it doesn't sound as though the Biden administration thinks that Netanyahu is taking that into account.
KIRBY: I would just say that we have had those tough conversations with our Israeli counterparts since almost the beginning.
And we have made no bones about the fact that we don't necessarily see the tactical execution the same way that they do in terms of protection of civilian life.
TAPPER: But the U.S. keeps giving them weaponry to carry out these attacks.
KIRBY: Our support for Israel's security is ironclad, Jake. That's not going to change. We are going to continue to make sure they can defend themselves.
Again, this is an ally. This is a partner. And they are under attack every single day. If we were here in the United States facing those kinds of missiles and drone attacks from neighboring countries, I can guarantee you the American people would want to make sure that we are doing what we can to protect them.
[09:10:02]
And we are going to continue to do what we can to protect the Israeli people. But that doesn't mean, back to your first question about the two -- the relationship, that these two men, who've known each other a long time, aren't capable of having tough conversations with one another.
And President Biden will continue to stand up for the right to protect civilian people and civilian infrastructure.
TAPPER: Admiral Kirby, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
We are weeks away from the presidential election, from Election Day, and Donald Trump is amping up his personal attacks and foreboding warnings. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham joins me next.
And between cat ladies and false allegations of cat eating, what is likely to come up in Tuesday's vice presidential debate? That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:02]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
We are following all the latest news out of the Middle East, but also, here at home -- quote -- "biblical destruction" left behind by Hurricane Helene, scenes of absolute madness, with neighborhoods turned into lakes in some areas, as the death toll climbs to more than 60.
Joining us now, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, who represents one of the state's hardest hit.
So, Hurricane Helene left millions in South Carolina without power, dozens dead across six states, I think. In your state of South Carolina alone, there have been at least 23 storm-related deaths that we know of.
How bad is the devastation there, and is South Carolina getting everything from the federal government that it needs?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We had a conference call yesterday. I appreciate what the federal government is doing.
I think maybe DOD may weigh in a little bit more. Massive record- breaking, whatever adjective you can think of, 23 people dead. If you drew a line from Hilton Head to Charlotte, everything West Of it is pretty well wiped out.
I'm going home this afternoon with Governor McMaster in Greenville, try to get into my house. It's just bad, and we appreciate all the help and all the prayers.
TAPPER: And everyone in your world, your friends and family are OK?
GRAHAM: Yes, yes, yes, everybody -- everybody's going to make it.
TAPPER: OK.
Let's turn to the Middle East. Iran says that Israel's killing of the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah -- quote -- "represents..."
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: "... a serious escalation that changes the rules of the game" -- unquote. Iran also says the U.S. is complicit in Israel's actions.
How worried are you that this latest strike by Israel taking out Nasrallah and Hezbollah leadership could actually lead to a direct military conflict between the United States and Iran?
GRAHAM: Well, we're one missile away from civilians getting killed in Israel and maybe Israel having to hit Iran.
Blinken said the Iranian nuclear program was weeks away from having a weapon, potentially. I think what Iran's learning from all this, it's probably better to have a nuclear weapon than not. Their proxies have really been hurt. Hezbollah, Hamas have really been hurt.
So what I fear is, they will break out toward a nuclear weapon, thinking that's the insurance policy they don't have through the proxies. So that's what I worry about the most today. Does Israel go in on the ground? Do they try to push them back across the river by military force?
What's the day-after plan for Gaza? Why did this happen October the 7th? Bibi said in the U.N., Iran, through their proxies, Hamas, attacked Israel to stop normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And let me just put a fine point on that.
TAPPER: Well, let me just say that, if that's true, if Iran did the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7 to stop the normalization process between the United States -- I'm sorry -- between Israel and Saudi Arabia -- and, apparently, Blinken was meeting literally that day, literally -- then has Iran in some ways not succeeded?
Is this not kind of mission accomplished for Iran?
GRAHAM: If at the end of the day, the time passes, the window closes, there's no normalization between Saudi and Israel to end the Arab- Israeli conflict, what Iran feels -- fears the most, then, yes, they have had a strategic win in the middle of all this chaos.
So, to my friends in Israel, to my friends in Saudi Arabia, Bibi gave a great speech about the benefits of the deal. I have gone over since last April seven times trying to help this administration normalize between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Do not give up. Do not let Iran win. Do the deal.
TAPPER: So, let me ask you a question because you talked about a possible Israeli ground troop incursion into Lebanon.
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: No decision has been made, we're told. The last time Israel invaded Lebanon, nearly two decades ago, Israeli troops became bogged down...
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: ... ultimately withdrew with really not much to show for it, except high casualty counts on both sides, including a lot of innocent Lebanese civilians.
Would a ground invasion of Lebanon be a mistake? GRAHAM: I think a ground invasion to push them back across the -- I
can't remember the name of the river right now -- to create a buffer zone is the goal of the ground invasion so they can't do an October 7.
The Radwan elite brigade of Hezbollah, they need to be pushed back across that river. It's not going to be 2006, but how do you hold it? When you stop military operations in Gaza, who takes over? Without a normalization deal, the Arabs don't come in to reform the West Bank and take over Gaza.
Without some diplomatic solution, Israel is going to be occupying parts, 40, 30, 40 miles of Lebanon to create a buffer zone. That, to me, is not the outcome I desire. Really, in many ways, that's a win for Iran.
TAPPER: So, let me ask you.
You're one of Netanyahu's most stalwart defenders in the United States Senate, and I know Israel has the right to defend itself. But when you see the images of dead Palestinian kids, babies in Gaza, when you see the images of flattened buildings in Beirut, in the suburbs of Beirut, I understand that Hamas and Hezbollah embed themselves within the populace and that Israel is defending itself. I understand all that.
[09:20:09]
But what's your emotional reaction when you see your ally carrying out -- Netanyahu ordering strikes that are killing innocent people?
GRAHAM: Well, my emotional reaction is, I go back to Iran that's causing all this.
It breaks my heart to see any child killed that's a victim of this conflict. I am focused like a laser. I talked to President Trump yesterday about this. We have got to change the game. There's nothing new about this game. You go into Lebanon. You beat them up. You leave. You go into Gaza. You go into the West Bank. It's different this time.
But what makes it different is, if you can get the Arabs finally to take over the Palestinian file, if you can put Iran back in a box -- Trump had them in a box -- this is a result of Iran running wild, having $80 billion of sanctions relief they used to build up Hamas and Hezbollah.
Nobody in Israel is even talking to the Biden administration. The Biden administration is paralyzed by fear of Iran. In the name of not escalating, the world is on fire. So I promise you, if Trump does win, we're going to fix this pretty quick.
TAPPER: Let's talk about the Trump campaign, because I want to say -- I want to play something Trump said yesterday in a speech ostensibly about Vice President Kamala Harris' visit to the border. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kamala is mentally impaired. Joe Biden became mentally impaired. Kamala was born that way.
If you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK, so first of all, there are actual people out there with mental impairments, and that's insulting to them.
Second of all, Vice President Kamala Harris is not mentally impaired.
GRAHAM: No, I just think she's crazy liberal. I don't question her...
TAPPER: But what do you think about that rhetoric?
GRAHAM: I just think the better course to take is to prosecute the case that her policies are destroying the country. They're crazy liberal; 400,000 people have been let loose in our country, 16,000 people convicted of being a rapist, 13,000 convicted murderers, and 400,000 people generally convicted of crimes released on her watch.
It's not going to get better.
TAPPER: OK, so I saw that statistic. We dove into it, our fact- checker.
GRAHAM: Yes.
TAPPER: That statistic is actually over decades. So, some of those people you're talking about are people that came into the country during Trump.
And, second of all, some of them are in prison. A lot of them are in prison, not ICE prisons, but federal prisons, for their crimes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: I can tell you this. The man who killed Laken Riley in Georgia was released by the Biden/Harris administration on parole because they had no capacity at the border to hold him.
That's not a reason to parole people. I promise you there are men -- women have been raped and murdered. People have been hurt by legal immigrants released into this country without detention. It is a nightmare. It is crazy.
It's crazy to boycott a speech by the prime minister of Israel to a joint session of Congress, thinking it won't embolden Iran.
TAPPER: Well, I don't...
GRAHAM: It's crazy to withdraw from Afghanistan hoping things will be different this time.
Medicare for all, Green New Deal, crazy stuff.
TAPPER: OK.
GRAHAM: I'm not saying she's crazy. I'm saying your party -- your policies are batshit crazy.
TAPPER: OK. Well, they're not my policies. And there's a whole lot of things you said.
I will just say, she didn't boycott Netan...
GRAHAM: She didn't show up.
TAPPER: She didn't show up.
But let's focus on Trump's rhetoric, because that's what I'm actually asking you about, because...
GRAHAM: The problems with the world are not Trump's rhetoric. They call him crazy.
Pelosi wanted to invoke the 25th Amendment. Why don't you ever talk about that?
TAPPER: So Donald Trump also said this at an event on Friday:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I lose, I will tell you what. It's possible because they cheat. That's the only way we're going to lose, because they cheat. They cheat like hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK. So, in point of fact, it is anybody's -- tell me if you disagree with any of the statements I'm about to make.
In point of fact, Harris could win or Trump could win.
GRAHAM: True.
TAPPER: It's anybody's race.
GRAHAM: True.
TAPPER: It's a -- it's razor-thin and whoever wins, in all likelihood, it will not be because they cheated. It will -- I mean, I haven't seen any evidence of any cheating.
GRAHAM: Well, mail-in balloting was a problem with COVID. I hope we fixed that.
I certified the last election because I listened to the allegations of cheating. I thought it fell short in terms of changing the outcome. I'm more focused on today and tomorrow. And here's what I would tell President Trump. When people look at the state of play, they trust you on the economy, the border, inflation, and foreign policy by wide margins. Focus on those issues. TAPPER: Focus on those and don't call Kamala Harris mentally
disabled. That's your advice.
One last thing. He has not agreed to do another presidential debate. Do you think that he should? For example, Kamala Harris has accepted CNN's invitation if they want to do another presidential debate. He liked the debate we did last time. He thought we were fair. He thought the rules were fair. Obviously, that was a very consequential debate.
[09:25:00]
Should he do another debate?
GRAHAM: I'm going to leave it up to him, but I'd like to see it myself, because I think she's a mile wide and an inch deep.
Look what's going on in the world. The world is literally on fire. They don't have a clue. They're paralyzed by fear when it comes to Iran. The world that Trump left us when he left office was mortgage rates below 3 percent, a secure border, peace agreements, no war anywhere.
I would like to see her explain how she's going to change things, when she's been in charge for four years and hasn't changed anything. I'd like to know, from her point of view, what did happen in the Mideast? Why do you think the world's on fire? Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine? Have you not figured this out yet, that you're weak in the eyes of all of our enemies?
And here's what I would say to Trump. If you do debate her, she is a mile wide and an inch deep and you can prove that.
TAPPER: All right, Senator Lindsey Graham.
A strong defense there of former President Trump's policies, if not his rhetoric on the campaign trail.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: Tough talk from Kamala Harris out West, but is Arizona out of reach for her campaign?
My next guest is campaigning for the Harris/Walz ticket in Arizona, Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois. He's here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:45]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.
While the Democratic vice presidential nominee, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, is in Michigan right now preparing for his Tuesday debate, Vice President Harris is taking a quick break from the blue wall states for a swing out West, where he gave a tough speech on immigration at the southern border. Joining us now from Arizona, where he is campaigning for the
Harris/Walz ticket, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker.
And, Governor, obviously, Senator Graham, Lindsey Graham, has some strong views on this campaign, saying that Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris, is a mile wide and an inch deep, and that she has a belief in policies that are -- quote -- I'm quoting here -- "batshit crazy."
Wanted to give you an opportunity to defend the ticket.
PRITZKER: Well, thanks, Jake.
And they have nothing on their side to talk about that's good for everyday Americans, for working families. That's why they're just name-calling. That is what this is all about. You heard Donald Trump talk about mental impairment yesterday.
I think, whenever he says things like that, he's talking about himself, but trying to project it on others.
And all I can say is that, with a policy like a $6,000 child tax credit that will help young families, $25,000 to help people who are first-time homebuyers with a down payment, $50,000 tax break for people who are starting small businesses, those are real policies that are good for Americans everywhere. And they're economic opportunity- oriented policies.
Again, you hear nothing out of Donald Trump. Mostly, it's about a big tax break for the wealthiest Americans when you hear the Republicans talk. I don't think that's what everyday folks are looking for when they go to the polls over the next 40 days.
TAPPER: So, she -- Vice President Harris was in Arizona yesterday to try to shore up an issue where she is vulnerable, at least according to polls, immigration and border security.
In her speech, she doubled down on the issue of border security, said she would expand President Biden's crackdown on asylum seekers, which started earlier this year. That is quite a reversal from her position in 2019, when she was running for president, when she supported decriminalizing illegal border crossings entirely.
Why do you think voters who care about this issue should believe her now when she says she's going to address this border crisis as a moderate or as even center-right kind of position, especially when this crisis spiraled out of control on the Biden administration's watch?
PRITZKER: Well, remember, there's been massive migration all throughout the world, people literally moving from one country to another.
And that began to increase significantly over the last four years. So it's natural, of course, that you adapt your policies to meet the moment. And what Kamala Harris has put forward is that she would stand up for the bipartisan border security bill that Donald Trump torpedoed.
Let's get some perspective here. Forty years, we have tried to get some comprehensive immigration reform. It needs to be bipartisan because we haven't had a Senate that's had more than 60 members, which is the filibuster limit of either party. And the result is that we have had no bipartisan effort on immigration.
We finally, under Joe Biden, got Senator Lankford and a total of 75 senators behind a border security bill. And you know who torpedoed that? Donald Trump. So, we got to pay attention to the fact that Kamala Harris is actually trying to solve problems. Donald Trump has been all about Donald Trump and his election efforts.
TAPPER: So, that effort, the Lankford bill, et cetera, that was in the last year. I mean, this has been a crisis that started in the first year of the Biden administration.
And I know just from having covered it that the White House was rather dismissive of it and thought that this was just repeating right-wing talking points, et cetera. Vice President Kamala Harris was in charge of going to the Central American countries, addressing the root causes.
[09:35:01]
But she's only been to the border -- before yesterday, she'd only been there once. It does seem as though the administration just in the last year has realized, oh, we need to really do something about this. But what about before? What about 2021, 2022, 2023?
PRITZKER: Well, as you know, I'm from Chicago. I'm from Illinois. We saw an influx of migrants there. And you heard me talk about that over the last two years.
One of the big challenges...
TAPPER: Yes.
PRITZKER: So I have been intimately in discussions with the White House about what to do.
Look, it's a challenging issue to resolve without legislation. And that's been the problem for 40 years, Republicans, Democrats not working together. So in order to do it without legislation, you have got to go negotiate with all the countries that are south of us from which those migrants are coming to make sure that there are policies in those countries that will keep them from moving north and steadily toward the border and then piling up against our border.
That is a problem, because the president does not have the power to shut down the border. That could have been something in the border security bill that became law, but a president doesn't have that. So you can only do it with a combination of policies and working with those countries. That is not an easy thing to do.
You can't just overnight announce that you're going to do it. You have got to actually get those countries to agree. So it took a couple of years, frankly, for the administration working behind the scenes to get that done, while they were also trying to get bipartisan legislation. And they came this close.
And, again, it was Donald Trump that torpedoed it.
TAPPER: So, you're in Arizona, and much of your focus on the campaign trail there is abortion rights.
A "New York Times" poll this week found that 58 percent of Arizona voters plan to vote for a ballot measure that would codify a constitutional right to abortion, up to 24 weeks. The poll also showed, however, that the economy remains the top concern for voters in that state.
And they preferred Donald Trump over Kamala Harris on that issue by 17 percentage points. Are you worried that support for abortion rights in Arizona will not translate to support for Harris in this critical state?
PRITZKER: Look, people -- no one is really a single-issue voter, right? They have got a number of things they go into the ballot box thinking about before they pull the lever for one candidate.
Abortion rights is going to be a very important one. I helped to get that on the ballot here in Arizona through Think Big America. Very important that abortion rights are protected across the country. The economy also matters. And that's why the policies of the Harris/Walz campaign and the administration that they will put together are about creating opportunity for everybody.
We call it an opportunity economy because, once again, we're trying to help people, everyday Americans, working families who just need a little hand up, a little help to get by. And the Trump administration while they were in office did absolutely nothing except give a massive tax break to the wealthiest Americans.
Kamala Harris and Tim Walz plan to put dollars into the pockets of everyday folks, people who are hardworking Americans, and to help the most vulnerable. I think the policies that they have put forward -- and, again, she's only been the candidate for, well, frankly, four or five weeks since the Democratic Convention, but if you take it all the way, maybe 10 weeks total since the beginning.
And so getting the message out about the opportunity economy that she's advocated for, I think, has been the key. And I see it on the ground. I have been here. It's 117 degrees outside. And, yesterday, I was at -- during that heat at a canvass that 100 people came out to a canvass in 117-degree heat to knock doors, to make phone calls, to advocate for the Harris/Walz campaign.
She's going to win in Arizona. And when she wins in Arizona, that, frankly, torpedoes the entire Trump campaign.
TAPPER: We will see. Polls have her down right now.
Governor Pritzker, thank you so much for joining us from Arizona. We really appreciate it.
PRITZKER: Thank you.
TAPPER: "Saturday Night Live" is back from summer hiatus, and "Saturday Night Live" has entered the chat.
And we will roll the tape when my panel joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYA RUDOLPH, ACTRESS: It's like I say to my husband, Doug, when he leaves his phone at the Chili's.
(LAUGHTER)
RUDOLPH: We are not going back.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:44:15]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM GAFFIGAN, ACTOR: I got to be honest here, folks.
When Kamala Harris called me and asked me to be her vice president, I said, uh, yeah!
JAMES AUSTIN JOHNSON, ACTOR: My running mate, J.D. Vance, people are saying he was a bad pick. And, in many ways, he was.
BOWEN YANG, ACTOR: How much do we love Donald Trump? And just this afternoon, he told me: "J.D., you're like a son to me, because I don't like you. I'm stuck with you."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back, "Saturday Night Live." We definitely -- we definitely missed you, so a little bit of a preview there of this week's vice presidential debate.
Actually, you know what? We actually have some sound from Walz and, what's his name, Vance, Walz and Vance. Sorry. My -- Sunday morning.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's OK.
TAPPER: And let's play that. This is what we actually anticipate the debate Tuesday might be like.
[09:45:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALZ: I can't wait to debate the guy, that is, if he's willing to get off the couch and show up.
VANCE: We don't need to prepare for a debate with Tim Walz.
WALZ: People like J.D. Vance know nothing about small-town America.
VANCE: Everything that comes out of his mouth about his military service is at least 25 percent a lie.
WALZ: These guys are just weird.
VANCE: Talk about weird with Tim Walz.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, I have to say I don't think I can recall a time that the two vice presidential nominees really seemed to dislike each other this much, even though I don't think they have probably ever even met.
But, like, I -- going back, I can't think of it. Biden, Palin, no. Cheney, Edwards, no. I mean, they really seem to...
FINNEY: But just look at the tone and tenor, though, of where we are in 2024 and this campaign. And when you have Donald Trump at the top of the ticket, I think that adds to the dynamic.
TAPPER: Well, also -- but that's also one of the reasons why these guys were picked.
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes.
TAPPER: I mean, both of them are fighters.
PERRINE: They are, but you have seen a really interesting strategy by J.D. Vance leading up to this. He is using his rallies not just for stump speeches, but to start taking questions from reporters.
And he's using the crowd as well to try -- and if they're asking on any number of -- to get into this kind of combative back-and-forth with reporters. This kind of worries me a little bit going into the V.P. debate for him, because is he going to be overly combative with the moderator or with Governor Walz?
Because we have seen, at Donald Trump's first debate in the last cycle, if you get too combative, it can really get off the rails. And he's not going to have that crowd feedback the way that Trump really likes that. Will that be an advantage or a disadvantage for him when he's trying to deliver the strong message?
Because he has been absolutely one of the strongest surrogates and voices for Donald Trump.
ASHLEY ETIENNE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think what I have noticed about all of this is, there's never been a time that I can recall before now where the vice presidential picks have been so consequential to the actual top of the ticket.
You look at J.D. Vance, who was supposed to somehow expand Donald Trump's reach. Instead, he actually has done more damage, harm than good. But you look at Governor Walz, the reason why it's a smart, smart pick, the reason why he was picked, is to bridge that cultural divide, to reach out to constituencies at the Democratic parties had problems reaching, moderate Republicans, disaffected Republicans, independent Republicans.
He's signaling to a constituency that, you can vote for this ticket. So he's incredibly consequential to Kamala Harris.
TAPPER: I heard a chortle from your friend Scott Jennings over here.
(LAUGHTER)
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm sorry. I'm sorry..
ETIENNE: Well, it's typical. It's what would you expect from Scott.
JENNINGS: I just...
TAPPER: What are you chortling about?
JENNINGS: Oh, well, first of all, I don't find them to be consequential.
Second of all, Walz is a buffoon. I'm sorry. This guy, he's the only schoolteacher in America who brags that none of his students can get into an Ivy League school. He's had one consequential press interaction with our Dana Bash, who asked him about the fabrications in his own resume.
And his answer was essentially, me no understand words good. I mean, he is a buffoon.
FINNEY: Scott.
JENNINGS: He's on a free ride for running under Harris.
FINNEY: Scott.
JENNINGS: He gets very little press. They don't let him talk to the press for a reason.
I want one thing out of this debate. I want J.D. Vance to go out there and get under his skin. He has legendary hot, short temper. A lot of governors do, but -- he apparently he does. I want J.D. Vance to go out there and have him explain why he is denigrating J.D. Vance's story.
Small-town America, ends up making something better out of his life, which is something we should want for every kid.
(CROSSTALK) ETIENNE: Well, what I hope Walz will do is to use J.D. Vance's words
against him.
Remember, he used to tell the truth about Donald Trump. He called him America's Hitler. He said he thoroughly failed to deliver on an economic plan, that he's a cultural heroin. So, that's what I expect him to do, which is to make this point about J.D. Vance. You can't trust this guy. He's a fraud. Now he's singing a different tune, just like Donald Trump?
You can't trust him.
TAPPER: So, one thing I just want to bring up on the same topic is that, for whatever reason, Tim Walz has a notably higher positive rating than -- favorability rating than Vance does.
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: September 19 to 22, CNN poll of registered voters, Walz favorable 36 percent, unfavorable 32 percent. That's net plus-four. J.D. Vance favorable 30 percent, unfavorable 42 percent, that's a net negative-12. That's a margin of error of three.
FINNEY: Yes, look, and actually, yes, his negative also ABC has shown 11 points since he began the nominee, an 11-point increase.
TAPPER: What is -- is that because of the cat lady thing?
FINNEY: I think it's because of a number of things. He's basically saying -- he's denigrating women by saying, if you're -- if you don't have children, you shouldn't have a role -- you should have less of a say in government if you -- and, yes, the cat lady thing is very derogatory.
And his instinct is to dig in harder, rather than just say, you know what, I shouldn't have said that. Here's what I really meant.
ETIENNE: How about the made-up story about the cats, right?
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Oh, the cat-eating, yes.
FINNEY: But here's the thing -- no, here's the thing about that, though. I want him to have to answer tough questions about that, because that is actually dangerous.
We're talking about elevating this man. I mean, given Donald Trump's age, I think it's very fair to look at him and say he could be president. And he literally said to Dana Bash he made that story up. We have reporting that shows his office knew that it wasn't true.
[09:50:10]
And he used it anyway to essentially demonize and denigrate Haitians. And here's the problem, Jake. It has put children's lives in danger, not just in Springfield. There's reporting this morning about how this is now spreading to Indiana and Florida and other parts of the country where you have Haitian migrants or -- in many cases, they're -- these children are Americans.
TAPPER: Erin?
PERRINE: I think, in this instance, what we're going to be looking at is the fact that J.D. Vance needs to be on his game.
He is -- the reason he was selected was to be the MAGA heir apparent. He was the one who was going to continue on the MAGA. So, of course, he's combative, he's aggressive. That's the style. He is reflective of the top of the ticket.
And I think that's true for both of these. You see that Tim Walz is a little more soft-spoken, and you see that J.D. Vance -- but the big thing here is going to be the policy conversation, because there is still a large set of voters who want more from Kamala Harris. They aren't hearing it. Can Walz be able to deliver that?
TAPPER: So, Ashley has a new op-ed out this morning.
And you offer some advice to Kamala Harris. You say: "First, cut back on the incessant focus on Mr. Trump. By now, almost everyone who could be persuaded by the case against him has heard it. Second, trade the massive rallies for a series of smaller town-hall style events in battleground states. Third, she should launch the party's first large- scale paid social media influencer campaign.
"And, finally Ms. Harris needs to do more interviews. I rarely agree with Republicans, but this is essential to close voters' knowledge gap about her."
That's actually not the final op-ed.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: I knew -- I did that one for you, Scott.
JENNINGS: Thank you. Oh, wait, you're saying that's not in "The New York Times"?
ETIENNE: No, it's not.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: They took it out.
ETIENNE: It's fine.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
ETIENNE: Nevertheless, only because it was more than just Republicans that were making the point. So here's what I think. One, let me just start by saying I just humbly
offer these suggestions. She's been doing really a remarkable job. I mean, it's unprecedented the impact that she's had in such a short period of time, $500-plus million. She's closed the gap with Trump in six weeks and in some polls is outpacing him.
But here's the thing I think the question that the vice president has to answer, which is, why? Why her? Why now? Why is she the leader for this moment? And I'd like to hear her do it without even mentioning Donald Trump. The reason why I suggest to not mention him, he's like a fire. How do you put out a fire? You suffocate it. Don't give it any oxygen.
The second point is, she needs to be put into more intimate settings. I was in those rooms with her in the White House.
TAPPER: Town halls.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: Yes, I was in those rooms with her in the White House. She's compassionate. She's funny. She's warm. She sees people. She has a heart for their circumstances.
And they need to put that on display in those settings.
TAPPER: Very quick, Scott.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: I still got two other points.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Unscripted interactions very dangerous for your former boss. I understand why they're doing what they're doing.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: Her town halls were record-setting in 2019, record-setting town halls.
JENNINGS: Record? She didn't even make it to 2020.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: I said 2019.
(CROSSTALK)
ETIENNE: But, anyway, nevertheless.
TAPPER: Point, counterpoint.
We will be right back.
FINNEY: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:56:40]
TAPPER: The nominees are preparing for their one and only debate. And you can watch that debate simulcast right here on CNN Tuesday, along with all the best reporting and analysis.
I will see you right back here Tuesday night for that. But, before that, obviously, I will be on "THE LEAD" tomorrow.
Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.
"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
