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State of the Union
Interview With Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-PA); Interview With Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA); Interview With Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT). Aired 9-10a ET
Aired October 20, 2024 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:37]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Detour. With just 16 days to go, Donald Trump veers off his closing message...
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Arnold Palmer was all man.
TAPPER: ... and attacks his opponent in vulgar terms.
TRUMP: Everything they touch turns to...
AUDIENCE: Shit!
TAPPER: Will it turn off the swing voters he needs to win? Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson is next.
And closing pitch. Kamala Harris ramps up her rhetoric about Trump...
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's becoming increasingly unstable and unhinged.
TAPPER: ... and calls in an unlikely sidekick.
FMR. REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Trump is not fit to lead.
TAPPER: Will undecided voters agree?
Independent Senator Bernie Sanders joins me head.
Plus: turning point? As Israel presses ahead in Gaza, Harris attempts to balance charting her own path...
HARRIS: Seize this opportunity.
TAPPER: ... while maintaining U.S. policy.
HARRIS: End the war. Bring the hostages home.
TAPPER: But is she risking alienating progressives? Our panel of experts is here to break it down. (END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is in the thick of it.
We're just 16 days from Election Day, and more than 11 million voters have already cast their ballots in what seems likely to be a tight presidential race until the very end, the very last vote has been counted.
In dueling swings day rallies last night, Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump offered voters sharply different closing messages. Harris kept the focus on Trump, questioning his fitness for office, while, in a major speech to the voters of Pennsylvania, Donald Trump went off on a 12-minute tangent about former pro-golfer Arnold Palmer, which included this bizarre anecdote about the athlete's penis:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But Arnold Palmer was all man. And I say that in all due respect to women, and I love women.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: But this guy -- this guy -- this is a guy that was all man.
When he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there. They said, oh, my God.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: That's unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Unbelievable, indeed, this to end a week where Mr. Trump called for the military to handle his domestic political opponents, said that infamous Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein got -- quote -- "schlonged," called Kamala Harris a quote "shit vice president," canceled scheduled interviews, continued to push lies about the 2020 election, including the notion that January 6 was a government-staged riot.
Also called January 6 -- quote -- "a day of love," compared the January 6 defendants to Japanese-Americans in internment camps during World War II, and at one rally decided to, instead of speak, dance and sway on stage for 39 minutes.
Joining us now is the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, who's in Michigan campaigning for the Republican ticket on his American Revival tour.
Speaker Johnson, thanks for joining us. Let's start with Israel. You spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu
yesterday. The U.S. is right now investigating a leak of highly classified intelligence documents posted online that appear to show Israeli plans for a retaliatory strike against Iran.
What's the latest on the investigation into this leak, and what did your conversation with Netanyahu go like? How did that go?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Yes, the leak is very concerning. There's some serious allegations being made there, investigation under way, and I will get a briefing on that in a couple of hours.
There's a classified-level briefing and then other, but we're following it closely. Look, I talked to my friend Bibi, Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday, to encourage him.
I mean, he's done an extraordinary job, I think, prosecuting that war, and if he had taken Joe Biden's advice, they'd be in a much weaker position right now. I think that the United States needs to stand unequivocally by our ally there right now.
There is -- really, we're on a precipice, I think, Jake, of a new era of security and freedom for Israel. And I think we're very close, I hope, I pray, to ending that conflict there. But we cannot equivocate. We can't appease Iran.
Now is the time for a maximum pressure campaign against the head of the snake. It's not Hezbollah and Hamas and the proxies that are ultimately the threat. It is Iran itself, and I think we need to recognize that right -- reality right now.
TAPPER: Is there any strike against the Iranians by Israel that you think would be too much, that would risk escalating matters so much that the United States is actually pulled into the war directly?
[09:05:08]
JOHNSON: It's not my place to second-guess their strategy or to try to micromanage it.
I think that we do harm to the overall cause if that's our position. And I think that's what the Biden/Harris administration has tried to do at too many points along the way. They have withheld weapons systems, when Congress in a bipartisan manner duly enacted that these things would be supplied.
And I have had many very serious, deep conversations with administration officials over the previous months, urging them to do what Congress has voted to do. And I think, in many ways, they have kind of empowered Iran.
I mean, look, President Trump is right when he says on the campaign trail that none of this happened under his watch. It didn't because we did not empower it. The Biden/Harris policies did. They relaxed sanctions on Iran, which allowed them to have the resources and the time and the opportunity to do what happened on October 7, more than a year ago, that great atrocity, and to continue all of this.
So, look, we need to stand by Israel. This is a good-versus-evil conflict. It's not even close. Israel is a state. It is the most stable democracy in the Middle East. And Iran is a terrorist regime. And it works through terrorist organizations to do great harm to our allies and, ultimately, what they hope to do is to us. And that's a real threat to us right now as well.
TAPPER: Let's turn to the 2024 race.
You heard President Trump's remarks. Let me read you the lead of the Associated Press story about Trump's rally in Pennsylvania -- quote -- "Donald Trump's campaign suggested he would begin previewing his closing argument Saturday night with Election Day barely two weeks away, but the former president kicked off his rally with a detailed story about Arnold Palmer, at one point even praising the late legendary golfer's genitalia" -- unquote.
Mr. Speaker, you're crossing all over the country. You're working hard to get Republicans over the line in this election. You're talking about substantive issues. Is this really the closing message you want voters to hear from Donald Trump, stories about Arnold Palmer's penis?
JOHNSON: Well, listen, I think that the headline that I read about the rally in Pennsylvania yesterday was the big question, and it's the one that Kamala Harris has not been able or willing to answer, and that is, are you better off now than you were under the Trump administration four years ago?
And no one can answer that question with a yes. I mean no one. And that's why Kamala Harris herself avoids the question. Look, I have been traveling the country nonstop, Jake. I have been in over 230 cities and 40 states right now. And I'm spending this -- these final closing weeks in the swing states, in blue states, in toss-up districts for the House.
I'm absolutely convinced -- there's an energy out there right now. I'm convinced that we are going to win the White House, the Senate, and the House. And we're going to have a very aggressive agenda to get the economy going again, to help everyone.
Look, everywhere I go, Jake, everybody has the same concerns. They're fed up and they're fired up about the cost of living that's unaffordable now and the rising crime rates everywhere and the weakness on the world stage and the wide-open border.
And they know that Kamala Harris is responsible for those things. And they know that President Trump is offering alternatives. So, put the rhetoric aside. Look at the record of these two candidates. This shouldn't be about personalities. It should be about policy. And I think people are looking at that seriously, and that's why I'm convinced we're going to win.
TAPPER: I'm sure that you think that a policy debate would be better than a personality debate. But if President Biden had gone on stage and spoke about the size of a
pro-golfer's penis, I think you would be on this show right now saying you were shocked and appalled, and you would suggest it was evidence of his cognitive decline.
I wonder how Trump's remarks, not just the one about Arnold Palmer on his -- quote -- "manhood," but everything we have heard from Trump this week, how it fits in with the analysis that "The New York Times" offered a few days ago.
They looked at his speeches from 2015 and 2016 and looked at his speeches today and said -- quote -- "With the passage of time, the 78- year-old former president's speeches have grown darker, harsher, longer, angrier, less focused, more profane, and increasingly fixated on the past."
I know you want to talk about policy, and I respect that. But the reason that Donald Trump is not up 10 points is because of comments like that one, where people do have concerns about his fitness, his acuity, and his stability.
Why is he talking about Arnold Palmer's penis in front of Pennsylvania voters?
JOHNSON: Jake, you seem to like that line a lot.
Let me tell you that Donald Trump is doing rallies nonstop around the country.
TAPPER: I didn't -- believe me -- let me just say something. Let me just say something.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: OK. All right.
TAPPER: I don't want to be talking about this. Donald Trump is out there saying it. It is unstable.
JOHNSON: But you continue to. Let's talk about...
TAPPER: Because you won't -- because you won't address it.
JOHNSON: Wait a minute. Hold on.
TAPPER: You won't address it.
He is out there talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: No, I will address it.
TAPPER: OK. Go ahead.
JOHNSON: Let me answer it. OK, don't say it again. We don't have to say it. I get it. There's
lines in a rally. When President Trump is at a rally, sometimes, he will speak for two straight hours. You're questioning his stamina, his mental acuity?
[09:10:03]
Joe Biden couldn't do that for five minutes. That's how you started this segment. You said, what if Biden was in a rally like that? He couldn't fill the room. Donald Trump does. You know why? Because they see him as a change agent and they understand he has a record of performance.
In his first administration, we had the greatest economy in the history of the world, Jake, not just the U.S. Everybody's wages were going up. Everybody had more jobs available to them. The pathway out of poverty was widened for more people. And that's what the American people are looking at.
We're going to have a demographic shift in this electorate, Jake. There's going to be -- when they count the votes and they do the math on the other side of this, I'm convinced you're going to have a record number of Hispanic and Latino voters coming into the Republican Party, a record number of black and African-American voters, a record number of Jewish voters and union workers and hardworking families, because they understand the Harris policies have destroyed their family finances.
They have made them less safe in their cities. They have a wide-open border with illegals and terrorists coming into our country. This is not working for the American people. And they want a change. And that's what they see in Donald Trump.
So he has fun at the rallies. He says things that are off the cuff. But I'm telling you, I have been in those events. I have been in those arenas and people have a great time at those arenas. So you can cherry-pick a few words or lines out of a two-hour event.
We could do that with Kamala Harris after a 20-minute event, because she does word salads, and she couldn't hold court like that without a teleprompter. We all know that.
TAPPER: So...
JOHNSON: These are the facts. The American people see it. And the media can pick it apart, but people are going to vote. They're going to vote what's best for their family and they see that in Trump.
TAPPER: In multiple interviews this week, Donald Trump repeatedly referred to prominent Democrats and others on the left in the United States, American citizens, as -- quote -- "the enemy from within" -- unquote.
And he suggested as president he would want to use the National Guard or military against them. Let me play some of that for our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're the big -- and it should be very easily handled by -- if necessary, by National Guard or if really necessary by the military, because they can't let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: One of the first things you did when you joined Congress was to create the Honor and Civility Caucus.
Does wanting to use the military against political opponents, would that pass muster with the Civility Caucus?
JOHNSON: That's not...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Jake, you know that's not what he's talking about there. What he's talking about is marauding gangs of dangerous, violent people...
TAPPER: No.
JOHNSON: ... who are destroying public property and threatening other American citizens.
TAPPER: No, he talked about Adam Schiff and the Pelosis.
He's not talking -- Governor Youngkin tried this with me too. That's not -- he was very clear.
Let me play -- because he was asked about this later on, because FOX always likes to give Donald Trump an opportunity to clean it up. And he always says, no, no, I said what I meant. Here's what he said when asked about it the next day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is the enemy from within. And they're very dangerous.
They're Marxists and communists and fascists and they're sick. I use a guy like Adam Schiff, because they made up the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. It took two years to solve the problem. Absolutely nothing was done wrong, et cetera, et cetera. They're dangerous for our country. We have China. We have Russia. We have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they can all be handled.
The more difficult are, you know, the Pelosis. These people, they're so sick, and they're so evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He's -- that's what he's talking about using the U.S. military against, not marauding gangs of Venezuelan... JOHNSON: Wait a minute. Wait. Hold on.
TAPPER: Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul.
JOHNSON: That's...
TAPPER: So, let me just say, if a Democratic presidential candidate said that you and your wife were evil and that the military should be used against you, I would say that's disgusting.
JOHNSON: Well, thank you. And some have said that about us, because they don't like my politics.
I did not hear President Trump in that clip say he's going to sic the military on Adam Schiff. That's not what he's saying. You have got two different clips in two different contexts.
What President Trump is talking about is that they have been attacking and maligning him from the day he came down that golden escalator. Everybody knows that's true. In 2015, 2016, that's when this began. He's been the most attacked, maligned political figure in U.S. history. They have tried to kill him twice in the last few months.
TAPPER: Who is they?
JOHNSON: This is real. And he feels that acutely.
And, Jake, you would too...
TAPPER: What do you mean they?
JOHNSON: ... if you were under attack like he is all the time, every day.
They, I mean Iran, who has assassination attempts out against him.
TAPPER: Sure. But that's not...
JOHNSON: I mean crazy, dangerous people in the country who get on rooftops and take shots.
TAPPER: But Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi are not trying to assassinate Donald Trump. There's this conflation of anybody...
JOHNSON: They're not, Jake. They're not.
But -- no, but the political attacks have been relentless and they have been baseless. And they made up the Russian collusion hoax. And they went after him and they have been going after him ever since. They tried to impeach him twice.
I mean, they have done real damage in the American psyche. What I'm talking about is the political attacks that are so over the top. Kamala Harris has used language saying he's so dangerous to the country.
[09:15:04]
I mean, I have had colleagues in the House say he must be eliminated, he must be extinguished.
TAPPER: He's literally talking about taking the military...
JOHNSON: I mean, this stuff is over the top. Now, you know my...
TAPPER: ... and using it against Democrats. I mean, he's literally talking...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: No, he's not. No, he's...
TAPPER: Yes, he is.
JOHNSON: No, he's not, Jake. No, he's not.
No, he's talking about using the National Guard and the military to keep the peace in our streets. In the summer of 2020 that my Democrat colleagues call the summer of love, it was crazy. It was mayhem. And Democratic progressive mayors and governors allowed it to go on, including Tim Walz, who allowed Minneapolis to burn and it's still not rebuilt.
Look, Trump is talking about restoring law and order. And I'm telling you, you can mock it. People in the media can mock it, but that resonates with the American people. They are sick of being afraid on the streets of their cities.
Donald Trump can bring order back to the chaos. They know that. So they're willing to give a little on his social media posts and some fun language he uses at rallies.
TAPPER: And he's -- he called January 6 a day of love. He said that the January 6 criminals, the prisoners who violently attacked your place of work, he compared them to the victims of Japanese internment camps.
And that guy is in favor of law and order?
JOHNSON: Yes, President Trump had and kept law and order.
When he says that the campaign rallies...
TAPPER: Except on January 6.
JOHNSON: ... that we didn't have hot wars around the globe during his administration -- no, look -- look, he's right.
Russia did not invade Ukraine under his watch. Israel was not attacked viciously by Iran and its proxies, because they were afraid to do so under our -- that commander in chief, under President Trump. They're not afraid right now. Our allies are nervous. Our enemies are empowered because they see an
opportunity. The only person that they fear less, our enemies abroad, the only person they fear less than Joe Biden is Kamala Harris. At the end of the day, when you go into the ballot box, I would just encourage everybody, ask yourself quietly, are you comfortable with Kamala Harris being the commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces at the most dangerous moment since World War II?
She could not handle that. Our enemies would have an opportunity there. And people think about those things. And that's why they're going to vote for Donald Trump.
TAPPER: It's like you were...
JOHNSON: That's why he's going to win and be reelected president.
TAPPER: ... answering questions from a completely different interviewer.
But, Speaker Johnson, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. And best of luck on the campaign trail in these last 16 days. I hope it is a peaceful and successful election and that all the ballots from legal voters are counted and that the actual winner takes office. That would be fantastic.
Good to see you, Speaker Johnson.
JOHNSON: You too, my friend. Thanks so much.
TAPPER: Is Kamala Harris moving to the middle? I'm going to ask independent Senator Bernie Sanders what he thinks next.
Plus, Harris and Liz Cheney are hitting the trail tomorrow. That's right, Liz Cheney. Is there anybody left to be persuaded?
Our panel on the campaign's closing strategy ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:22:18]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I remain Jake Tapper.
Tomorrow, Kamala Harris will make her case to a key group of voters, Republicans who are reluctant to vote for Trump, when she campaigns alongside former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming in the blue wall states of Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Joining us now is a senator on the other side of the aisle from Cheney who has been campaigning for Harris, independent Senator Bernie Sanders from the great state of Vermont.
Senator, thanks so much for joining us.
What does it say that Kamala Harris is starting this week, with only 16 days left, campaigning with Liz Cheney, a very conservative former congresswoman, daughter of Dick Cheney, obviously, but she has not yet held a public campaign event with you, arguably the leader of the progressive movement in the United States?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, first thought, what I think it says is that what the vice president understands is that there are millions of people really disgusted with Trump's constant lying, with his attempt to prevent the first peaceful transition of power, his undermining of American democracy. And that's what she's talking about.
Also, last night, Jake, you may have noticed Trump held a rally, and the big issue that he talked about -- and please forgive me if I mention this on television -- was apparently the size of Arnold Palmer's penis. That was the major issue that he discussed, and also referred to the vice president of the United States as an S-H-I-T.
So I think you have got a lot of Americans, whether you are conservative, whether you're progressive or moderate, who say, really? We have major issues facing this country. Is this the kind of human being that we want as president of the United States?
And there is a reason why Trump's own vice president, Mike Pence, terribly conservative, says he's not voting for Donald Trump. There is a reason why Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican candidate, not voting for Donald Trump.
So I think what Kamala is trying to do now is make it clear that, above and beyond issues -- and, obviously, Liz Cheney and I disagree on everything on the issues -- there are reasons to vote against Trump.
TAPPER: It does seem as though, including in these blue wall states, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Democrats are facing an uphill battle in these last two weeks, including to retain the Senate.
In Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, the Democratic Senate candidate is trying to appeal to voters by using their record working with Trump to appeal to voters.
Your friend Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, let me play a little bit of the ad he released yesterday.
[09:25:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Casey's leading the effort to stop corporate greedflation and price gouging. Casey bucked Biden to protect fracking. And he sided with Trump to end NAFTA and put tariffs on China to stop them from cheating.
So, in this house, we agree. It's Bob Casey who's doing right by Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: You think that's a bad sign for Harris that Democrats in places like Pennsylvania are highlighting their work with Trump?
SANDERS: Well, what I think is that, at a time when we have more income and wealth inequality in this country than we have ever had, when we have a health care system which allows us to be the only major country on Earth not to guarantee health care to all people, when we have a $7.25 minimum wage.
When you have got so many senior citizens who need to see an increase in their Social Security, I personally think that the winning issues are taking on corporate greed, and Bob Casey is talking about, and fighting for the working class against the people on top who have never, ever had it so good.
That would be my suggestion.
TAPPER: Well, let's talk about that, because let's take a -- let's -- let me roll some clips of a few positions you have taken on important issues in this presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: I am proud to announce today that I am an original co- sponsor of the Green New Deal proposal.
We need to move to a Medicare-for-all single-payer program.
If we are serious about combating climate change, we need to put an end to fracking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So I know you know this, but in addition to the Green New Deal and Medicare for all single-payer for health care, and ending fracking, in addition to those being positions that you hold, Vice President Harris used to be with you on all three of them and now is against you on all three of them.
Is she making a mistake having reversed those positions?
SANDERS: Look, Jake, I think what we're seeing is a coalition of people, more establishment Democrats and progressive Democrats and progressive independents -- I'm the longest serving independent in American history -- come together with the goal of defeating a very dangerous candidate. And that is Donald Trump.
In terms of Medicare for all, I personally believe that the current system is broken, dysfunctional. Its major goal is to make billions in profits for the drug companies and the insurance companies, and we end up spending twice as much per capita on health care of the people of any other country, while 87 million are uninsured or underinsured.
I think it's a broken system. I think we have to expand Medicare to cover every man woman and child. I happen to believe that -- unlike Donald Trump, who thinks that climate change is a hoax, I happen to believe that it is very, very real. And unless we lead the world away from fossil fuel to sustainable energy, I worry very, very much about the kind of planet that our kids and grandchildren will inherit.
Those are my views. That's what I campaign on in Vermont and what I have campaigned on nationally. Bottom line is, we need to move toward a government and an economy which works for all people, not tax breaks to billionaires and not being influenced by the big money that politicians -- that the billionaires are now putting into the political process.
One of the things, Jake, that we are not talking about, which I know, whether you're a Republican, Democrat, independent, people are really worried that you're seeing a handful of billionaires put huge amounts of money into the political process. Three billionaires over $200 million dollars into Donald Trump really is not the kind of democracy we want.
TAPPER: We know the election is going to be very, very close.
Michigan has a large Arab American and Muslim American population that traditionally votes Democrat, but there's a lot of concern among Democrats that a lot of those voters are either going to go to third party or not going to vote at all in protest of the Biden/Harris support for Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel.
What do you say to those voters who are thinking about sitting out this election or voting third party or maybe even voting for Donald Trump because they disapprove of Netanyahu and Biden/Harris' support for Netanyahu?
SANDERS: Well, what I say, in my own view, is, as I'm sure you know, I happen to believe that Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization that attacked Israel on October 7. Israel had a right to respond.
But it did not have the right to go to war against the entire Palestinian people, kill 42,000, injure 100,000, and destroyed almost all of Gaza. That, they don't have a right to do.
And I will be leading the effort to make sure that we do not provide more offensive military aid to Israel. But to those people who are saying, well, I can't support Harris because she disagrees, Trump, on that issue, even on that issue, is worse. He will be closer to Netanyahu.
So,if we are able to elect Harris, I think we're going to have an opportunity to move her on that issue, to make it clear we cannot allow children in Gaza to starve to death. She will be open to that. I doubt that Trump will.
[09:30:08]
We can't even get Republican support in the Senate for humanitarian aid to feed starving children. You really want to vote for a Trump who holds that view? I would hope not.
TAPPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, always a pleasure to have you on, sir. Thank you so much.
SANDERS: Thank you.
TAPPER: So, about last night, Lizzo and Usher joining Harris, while Elon Musk tries to rally supporters for Trump.
Our panel breaks down the latest from the trail. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:35:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYA RUDOLPH, ACTRESS: I am not looking for a viral moment. See how I don't let men interrupt my answers?
(LAUGHTER)
RUDOLPH: Very demure, very mindful.
(CHEERING)
RUDOLPH: I am here to reach across the aisle. Hundreds of Republicans have endorsed me because, in the club, we all fam.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The remarkably, remarkably astute Harris by Maya Rudolph there.
Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
I am here with my fam, my panel.
So, let me just start with the question about where we are in the race right now. Democrats seem worried. What do you think?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Democrats are always worried. I mean, we are proverbial bed-wetters. We clutch pearls.
But I am also, like, off the poller-coaster, because I know people think that Election Day is November 5, but Election Day started a couple of weeks ago.
TAPPER: Yes.
SELLERS: And so we actually have -- people that are saying, well, let's follow the betting markets or let's follow the polls or whatever Jake Tapper or whatever a pundit may say.
And I say, disregard all of that, because, right now, you actually can tell who's voting, where they're voting, what that looks like, be able to formulate an opinion. And I think both Democrats feel they're doing well and Republicans feel they're doing well as well.
I'm excited about Pennsylvania, though.
TAPPER: What do you think? Because I hear Republicans...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I'm going to go to her in a second. I'm going to go to her in a second.
(LAUGHTER)
REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Nice try.
TAPPER: But what do you think about the state of the race? Because Republicans on the Trump campaign seem to be very confident.
BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it's all about North Carolina and Georgia at this point, because I believe Pennsylvania looks great for Republicans in both the Senate race and the presidential race. I think Donald Trump could win Pennsylvania by as much as two.
And I think Georgia and North Carolina are -- now Democrats have to pursue that Southern Strategy. Add one of those, with Nevada, that's their path.
TAPPER: You're from Pennsylvania, so you have a good read.
DEAN: Let me say that it feels very different in Pennsylvania than that. It's close, close, close.
But let me tell you three events I went to just recently, Berks County, Democratic dinner this week, 450 Democrats packed into a room that happened to have been built with ARPA dollars. Never have we had numbers like that in Berks County.
My other county, Montgomery County, we're about to have 450 at a dinner tonight. And that's including some Republicans and some independents. But how about Kamala Harris in Bucks County flanked by all those Republicans?
TAPPER: At Washington Crossing.
DEAN: At Washington Crossing, a poignant setting and a remarkable outreach. There's just a lot going on.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Bucks County actually flipped this year. Registration -- Republicans now lead in registration in Bucks County for the first time. I think it's actually maybe the county to watch, and I think it'll be very, very close on Election Day.
DEAN: We always call Montgomery County the key to the Keystone, but you're absolutely right. Bucks is going to be one to watch. And there's a really exciting race there, Ashley Ehasz running in the Pennsylvania First. Watch her. ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: But that's the interesting part
when we're talking about voter registration now, because of the shift in the dynamics for the parties overall that we have seen in the realignment in the last decade.
Republicans now are more lower propensity voters. They brought more of those into the fold when the realignment happened. Democrats have more high-propensity voters that sit there. So right, now you're seeing Kamala Harris. When she's doing events with Liz Cheney over the last few weeks, they have put out country over party, right? That's a new message. That's a persuasion message.
It's because right now Democrats are still trying to find votes to bring into the fold, try and get voters out there, persuading, instead of doing more get-out-the-vote efforts at this point.
DEAN: What's interesting is, Democrats are doing a game of addition.
You see Donald Trump, and, honest to God, I don't know what they're doing, but it is a game of subtraction.
PERRINE: But the point is...
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Dehumanize, demoralize, so I can deport...
(CROSSTALK)
PERRINE: But he's picking up with white males. He's picking up with young Latino and black voters, those over 65 and those...
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Well, let me dispel a little bit of that, because what we have seen so far is, contrary to all the narratives that we have seen, black voters have been showing up at the polls in early voting in Georgia, in North Carolina.
I mean, we have been doing black male events around the country. And so I know that we think...
TAPPER: Black male events.
SELLERS: Black male events.
TAPPER: Not blackmail.
SELLERS: No. Yes. No, there's...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I just wanted to make sure.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Yes.
No, the blackmail events are what Elon Musk is doing.
TAPPER: Right, OK. So, anyway.
SELLERS: So -- but what's happening, though, and that kind of is a segue to my next point, is that the ground game of the Republican Party is nonexistent.
You talked about GOTV, and the reason being is because Donald Trump has abdicated that, and he's given it to Elon Musk and Charlie Kirk, who don't know what the...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Well, I have heard a lot about that. Is that true, that the ground game has been outsourced?
TODD: No, the ground game -- look, first off, look, Republicans are different from Democrats. Democrats are lemmings who take orders from Washington. Republicans are entrepreneurial, so we have our ground game is built state by state.
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: Oh, my lord.
TODD: Going to be a little bit different.
SELLERS: That was cute. That was cute.
DEAN: I have a question.
TAPPER: Yes.
DEAN: I don't know if you all read Anne Applebaum's article this week about the language that Trump and his acolytes are using...
TAPPER: Yes.
DEAN: ... using vermin, calling people to demoralize them, to other them, to say there's an enemy from within, that he would like to use the National Guard and the military.
This is stuff from the 1930s. This is Hitler stuff. I wonder why Republicans aren't calling it out, not to mention calling out the 12 minutes talking about parts of Arnold Palmer.
Why aren't Republicans calling that out as unhinged, absolutely unhinged?
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: If Donald Trump is smart, here's how he will close the campaign.
TAPPER: OK.
TODD: He will close the campaign -- if Donald Trump is smart, I will give you this. If he's smart, he will close the campaign talking about the positions Kamala Harris took in 2020 when she ran for president.
[09:40:03]
DEAN: He can't stay on that message.
TODD: When he talks about the fact that she was against fracking, against the internal combustion engine.
SELLERS: That's hopeful.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: That we ought to have...
SELLERS: But he's diminished, yes?
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: That's the campaign he needs to run.
PERRINE: Yes, but all the joy is out of the Kamala Harris campaign right now, right?
There was such platitudes about all the joy she was bringing. But now it's an aggressively -- it is an aggressively negative...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Let Erin finish.
SELLERS: Yes.
PERRINE: It's an aggressively negative message from her now against Donald Trump's, because here's the thing. Democrats know -- and as much as, every day, there is some level of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Donald Trump makes a comment. People get outraged. People talk about the outrage on panels, and then they turn around and do it.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: The joy is gone. The joy is gone. The joy is gone.
(CROSSTALK)
PERRINE: No, the joy is gone.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I'm agreeing with you because -- the joy is gone, because we had 20,000...
PERRINE: And you want to know why. Because Democrats are slipping in the polling.
TAPPER: Go ahead.
SELLERS: Because we had 20,000 people in Atlanta, Georgia, with Usher Raymond yesterday. The joy was absolutely not in that building.
I was like, what are you talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
PERRINE: Not when it comes to the ads that you're running right now.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: But I guess -- but Brad is acknowledging here, Brad is acknowledging that Donald Trump would be better not talking about pro golfer's genitals and talking more about policy.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: If he puts his spotlight on Kamala Harris' radical positions that she's said in her own voice, that's the way to win the election.
DEAN: But he's responsible for what he says. Why don't Republicans call him out?
TAPPER: Well, they're trying to win an election.
But do you think that will actually help you win the election when he says things that are rather unhinged?
DEAN: Yes, it's helping every single day.
PERRINE: I don't think...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: You don't think it matters?
PERRINE: I think it's so baked in at this point that everybody sees it every single day.
Right now, even with everything Donald Trump has said, to this point, voters are still moving more towards him than they are towards Kamala Harris.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: It's as though we have two athletes playing a very different set of rules. It's absolutely ridiculous.
We keep asking for more policy statements from her, while you celebrate 12 minutes of.. (CROSSTALK)
PERRINE: No, not a different set of rules.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: We got to go.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Can we finish during the commercial?
TAPPER: Thank you. You absolutely can, absolutely can.
Most important message that Congresswoman Dean just said, vote. No matter who you're voting for, vote.
Yet another conspiracy theory falling flat. The evolution of the latest crazy claim and the people who are giving this stuff oxygen -- that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:46:35]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have heard the reports of ABC whistle-blower. If it happened, it's disgraceful. It should be a national scandal. But it's one of those things where I'd like to see a little bit more information come in before I actually develop an opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What is the ABC whistle-blower that Senator J.D. Vance is weighing in on there?
Allow me to tell you. Two days after the ABC News presidential debate, an anonymous X or Twitter account called Black Insurrectionist leveled an outrageous and unsubstantiated claim that seemed insane on its face, that an ABC News whistle-blower that somehow this anonymous account knew about was claiming that ABC News gave the Harris campaign sample debate questions in advance and had assured Harris that only Donald Trump, not Harris, would be fact-checked.
Crazy. Despite the total lack of any verifiable evidence from this random anonymous Twitter account making this claim, the post racked up millions of views on X.
And then it got even worse. Elon Musk spread the claim to his 200 million followers. Donald Trump shared it on his social media, and then, in a speech a few days later, he said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I hear she got the questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: It's not a real person.
Senator Ted Cruz, who should know better, given the vile Internet rumors Trump pushed about him in 2016, Senator Ted Cruz tweeted about this nonsense. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene took it a step further, writing -- quote -- "The ABC whistle-blower who claimed Kamala Harris was given debate questions ahead of the debate has died in a car crash, according to news reports" -- unquote.
Nearly five million views. She later acknowledged that the story about the mysterious death of the whistle-blower was false, but she continued to demand an investigation. Pennsylvania Congressman Dan Meuser, a Republican, agreed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAN MEUSER (R-PA): We're going to do what we can to bring ABC in and have them answer some questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: There is no whistle-blower. This is all based on a random anonymous claim on the Internet, never backed up by any verifiable evidence.
ABC News, of course, has denied it all, saying that they followed their own debate rules, which prohibited the sharing of topics or questions with any candidates.
This isn't just a coincidence, a few random folks mistakenly, credulously repeating misinformation. This is now a feature of this movement. These are among the leaders of the effort to discredit news media and science and medicine and any expertise.
The trajectory is wrote at this point. A shit-poster invents a lie, puts it on social media, and soon the possible next president of the United States is spreading it to millions, if not hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Did you see where she did a town hall yesterday and she used a teleprompter?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: She didn't use a teleprompter for a town hall. The moderator of the Univision town hall had a teleprompter, not Kamala Harris.
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene just went on "Alex Jones," who has spread those horrific lies about school shootings not being real, she went on that show to spread wild stories about voting in this current election just a few days ago. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): So when this voter printed their ballot and they looked, it had changed. That's extremely concerning. It sounds similar to what we heard in 2020.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Something's extremely concerning, but it's not the story there.
[09:50:01]
Trump booster Elon Musk has been peddling something similar about voting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, OWNER, X: The Dominion voting machines, it is weird that the -- I think they're used in Philadelphia and in Maricopa County, but not in a lot of other places.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: They're not used in Philadelphia.
And, in point of fact, a hand count in Maricopa County, Arizona, after the 2020 election found zero variances between the hand count and the Dominion tabulation, zero.
There are questions that Musk is referring to because election liars keep pushing them. And we know where lies about elections can lead, to destruction and death and one of the darkest days in American democracy.
Jonathan Swift once said, "Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it." He said that in the year 1710. He did not know how much worse it would get with social media and A.I. and wildly irresponsible leaders with huge platforms. God, what would Jonathan Swift think today?
Buckle up. It's going to be a rough 16 days and beyond.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:55:53]
TAPPER: Tune in to our town hall with Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris. That's Wednesday night at 9:00 p.m. only here on CNN with Anderson Cooper moderating.
Thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us. "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.
I will see you tomorrow on "THE LEAD."
