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State of the Union

Interview With Gov. Chris Sununu (R-NH); Interview With Sen. Andy Kim (D-NJ). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired December 29, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:52]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): New year, new you.

Democrats stare down the first year of president-elect Donald Trump's second term.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Billionaires right now that seem to be in charge of Trump's policy.

BASH: How much will they resist and how much will they try to get along? New Democratic Senator Andy Kim is next.

And so long, farewell. A moderate purple state governor prepares to step down. Where does he see his party going in the age of Trump?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Trump is Trump. There's no Trump-lite. There's no Trump 2.0 coming up.

BASH: Outgoing Republican Governor Chris Sununu is ahead.

Plus: countdown. Weeks until he's inaugurated, Trump gives Congress a preview of his return to power.

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): They're going to need us Republicans to stick together.

BASH: What should you expect when he takes office in 22 days? Our panel of experts is here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is wishing you a happy new year.

In just a few weeks, president-elect Donald Trump will take office for the second time, working with a Republican majority in Congress that has a long to-do list, tax cuts, mass deportations, reshaping the Justice Department and FBI, and lowering consumer costs.

And how will Democrats navigate their role in the minority? How much will they resist Trump? How much will they try to find common ground?

Well, one of those Democrats is Andy Kim, the groundbreaking new junior senator from New Jersey. He joins me now.

Senator Kim, thank you so much for being here. I'm sure that still is taking some getting used to, right?

SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): I'm getting used to the title. That's right.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Called -- called senator.

You made history. You're the first Korean American senator in the nation. How does that feel?

KIM: It's -- it all feels still very surreal.

I mean, to -- I had my two little boys in the Senate Gallery, 7 and 9 years old. And to have that chance to be able to have them watch, it was a lot. I mean, this year is actually 50 years since my parents immigrated from South Korea to the United States.

BASH: Wow.

KIM: And the idea that we can celebrate our 50th anniversary of our family in America by me being sworn in as a United States senator, it's beyond anything that my family could imagine.

My mom called. We talked the night of my swearing-in, and she was just in tears about just how emotional it was for her. So, it's a lot to process, but I'm proud of this moment.

BASH: And then you were already sworn in when you found out that you were assigned to the desk of one of your heroes.

KIM: That's right. So, I didn't realize this initially, but you have the 100 desks on the floor of the Senate.

And the drawers, if you pull them out, you can actually see at the bottom, every senator that's used that desk has carved their name into it. And, as I was looking through, one name stood out to me, which was Inouye, Senator Inouye from Hawaii, who was somebody that I grew up watching.

I mean, that we haven't had very many Asian Americans in the U.S. Senate. I'm only the 10th ever. I'm the first from the East Coast of America. And for someone like him, who's a Medal of Honor recipient from World War II, served in the Senate for nearly 50 years, the idea that I get to use his desk was just so powerful and just, like, really one of those moments where it hits you.

You're like, this is happening. Like, I'm doing this work, so just a lot of history to comprehend right now.

BASH: And, obviously, he was a decorated veteran, as you said.

You have already introduced your first piece of legislation, which is bipartisan. It's with Montana Republican Senator Steve Daines. And it's called the Ernest Peltz Accrued Veterans Benefits Act.

Why was that important for you to do right out of the gate?

KIM: Well, this is something that I have been working on in the House of Representatives, really tried to focus in on our veterans.

[09:05:03]

I feel a deep, deep responsibility and duty in many ways. I told you my parents were born at the end of -- they were born during the Korean War. It was American service members that came to the defense of my parents when they were babies and their families. So, very well -- my family could very well not exist had it not been for American bravery and our service members.

So, my family has always felt like we owe a debt of gratitude to our service members and our veterans, something that is important for the freedom of our family.

And, right now, I just -- I get frustrated when I see the challenges that veterans are facing. And I just feel like, in this moment of deep division within our society, within our politics, surely, we can at least come together and say we want to support those who have defended our nation.

BASH: You obviously now represent the entire great state of New Jersey, but you mentioned that you were in the House. And, there, you represented a district that Donald Trump won twice, despite the fact that you also won as a Democrat.

And you have worked under both Democratic and Republican presidents. Where do you think you can specifically work with soon-to-be-President Trump?

KIM: Well, look this is -- you're right. Yes, I'm a Democrat that won a congressional district that Trump won twice. I have learned how to be able to engage and also tried to build coalitions in that type of way.

And I'm -- you know, there definitely are some issues that I hope we can find agreement on and find to work together. For instance, my district in New Jersey was getting crushed by the opioid crisis. Fentanyl has been a major problem.

And as someone who worked in national security, we get so concerned about challenges abroad, but, right here at home, over 100,000 Americans losing their lives, a deep mental health crisis that we're facing, especially for our youth. As a father to a second grader and a fourth grader, I worry about their generation.

These are issues that I know we have talked through. I have worked in national security before, a lot of bipartisan concerns about American global competitiveness, about the United States and China, what that means going forward.

I helped pass the bipartisan CHIPS and Science ACT. I'd love to see a 2.0 version, something where we can invest maybe in artificial intelligence, other places where we can figure out how to be able to propel America going forward and make sure that the innovation of the future is one that we are able to generate.

BASH: We got a reminder of what it's like when Donald Trump is in charge. He's not quite there yet, but the reminder, of course, was when he blew up the bipartisan deal to fund the government.

You ready for the next four years?

(LAUGHTER)

KIM: Well, look, I at least feel better knowing that I have a vote, a vote of 100 -- one out of 100 in the U.S. Senate, a vote to be able to review the nominations for Cabinet, for judges, justices, others.

And so, I mean, look, it's a challenge. I was in the Congress for two years when Trump was president before. I have seen with my own eyes. I have understood and seen the challenges that are going to come that I'm worried about.

But I feel it's important to be able to engage right now, now more than ever. I have often been saying that I believe that the opposite of democracy is apathy. So, when I see these challenges, and no doubt there are challenges ahead, but I can't throw up my hands. I can't say, oh, I feel helpless in this moment. Here's a chance for me to try to make a mark.

BASH: Well, you mentioned that you will have votes on the president- elect's nominees. That is one of the many differences between in the House -- being in the House and in the Senate.

You were one of the first to say that you did not believe Matt Gaetz, your former House colleague, should be the attorney general. Is it possible, though, that you could vote for any of the big nominees, Kash Patel for DOD or Pete Hegseth -- excuse me -- Kash Patel for FBI, Pete Hegseth for DOD?

KIM: Well, look, I have had conversations with Congresswoman Elise Stefanik. I had to sit down with Senator Rubio. I'm still going through the process and I want to make sure I'm doing it right.

But those were good conversations, where we were able to dive in deep. And so I think that there are some nominees that are people I think I can work with.

But I also am deeply concerned about what I have heard Mr. Patel say in the past and about going after things. Like, he is being nominated for a role to lead an agency that he has talked about dismantling, talked about the deep state and going after.

I was a career public servant before in the federal government. I worked under both Bush and Obama. I served the country, not a party. And I worry about some of the tones there. With Hegseth, I hope to have a chance to be able to speak with him, but some of what he said before about not thinking that women should serve in combat, some of the other allegations that we have heard about, deeply alarming.

[09:10:11]

I have worked at the Pentagon before in the office of the secretary of defense. I know what that job is like. And I need to know whether or not he is up to the task. And, so far, I have real concerns.

BASH: We are coming up on four years since Donald Trump challenged what had been the peaceful transition of power on January 6.

You cleaned up trash in the Capitol Rotunda after the devastation. We're seeing a picture of that now. Are you worried the history of that day has already been rewritten by Donald Trump and his supporters?

KIM: Yes. Yes, I worry...

BASH: So, what do you do about it?

KIM: I worry about this a lot, because the way I sort of talk about it is that our country, we have this great motto of e pluribus unum, out of many, one.

And I have often kind of thought through, like, how does that happen? There's a missing verb there. How do you get from many to one? And it's so important that we have a shared sense of this country, its history, its definition.

But we're losing sight of this idea that we're part of something bigger than all of us. And when I see what happened on that day, I mean, we saw it with our own eyes, those of us that were in Congress. The American people saw it. People all over the world saw it.

And the idea that it's being papered over and that the people that attacked the Capitol, rioted, that they're being talked as liberators, as prisoners now that are being unfairly treated, we are a nation of rule of law. And it just -- it does break my heart.

I -- every day that I go into the Capitol, I go to the Rotunda, I think about what we saw on that day and how we should always commit to never having that happen again. This nation is such a great nation. And we were brought to such a sad moment on that day.

We should commit ourselves to never letting that happen again. But, instead, we see that unfortunately being a different lesson that many are taking away.

BASH: Well, this coming January 6 will be different for many, many reasons.

We appreciate you coming on, and wish you a happy new year. Thank you so much. And congratulations.

KIM: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

BASH: He's been a Trump skeptic, but now, as Governor Chris Sununu leaves office, is there still a place in the GOP for people like him? That's next.

And a look at President Biden's legacy and how the events of the last few months may impact it. My panel is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:00]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

After Donald Trump's convincing win in November, where does that leave the skeptics and critics of Trump within his own party? Among them is the outgoing Republican governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu. He watched Trump take over his party. So will people like Sununu be involved in helping shape the party's future?

Joining me now, the governor of New Hampshire, at least for a few more days, Chris Sununu.

Thank you so much for being here.

SUNUNU: You bet. Thanks for having me.

BASH: It's no secret that, during the Republican primary in 2024, you were pretty critical of Donald Trump. Now you're on board. And you're especially interested in his push led by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to slash government spending.

I want to read for our viewers something that you wrote in an op-ed: "Trump's first term was marked by the overspending and poor debt management of a Congress left without disciplined guidance. If, in 2024, Republicans don't act on their promises from the past election, they risk repeating the failures of 2018 and 2020. Elon's leadership could be the catalyst needed to push them to confront America's biggest fiscal challenges."

OK, so there's that, and you have confidence in that. There's a lot of concern from some of your fellow Republicans on the Hill of how to make what they're promising and what they're outlining into a reality.

SUNUNU: Right.

And that's the real challenge, right, because previous presidents have talked about efficiency in government and where this all goes. You got to actually make it happen.

And my argument to the Republicans on the Hill here, are America has stood up in 2014 and say they want to break through the establishment, the traditional bubble of Washington, D.C. They want a little bit of disruption. They want some fiscal sanity.

And the way I put it is, they want to ensure that that compact with America, that families have to balance the budget, Washington has to balance the budget, and that reinstills some of the trust that this place has lost. Now, Elon, I think, is very unique, in that he's an engineer. I'm

obviously very partial to engineers. He's always looking for efficiency in redesigning a system. You have to know how the system works, right, to -- otherwise, you're just going to be a lot of talk and nothing's going to move on the Hill.

So he's got to build a team around him that understands what can be done with executive order, what can be done on the Hill. And it's about structural. If you just say, we're going to cut a program here and cut a program there and find efficiency in defense, that's fine, but it's fleeting.

What they want to do in their opportunity with the political momentum of this election is to build something lasting with a balanced budget amendment, taking on, maybe not tomorrow, but understanding the challenges of Social Security are real. I mean, everyone's Social Security benefits get cut 17 percent in eight years.

BASH: But Trump's already saying he's not going to touch Social Security.

SUNUNU: And that's the challenge, getting over -- getting over that political hump to get folks on the Hill to say, either we deal this in the crisis of eight years from now or we deal with it in a more constructive way today.

BASH: So, you think that the incoming president is wrong when he says take entitlements Medicare and Social Security, which, as you know, make up the vast majority of the budget, that they should be on the table?

[09:20:04]

SUNUNU: They should be on the table. It doesn't mean they have to do it tomorrow, but they at least have to think constructively, OK, we will set up a commission, we will set up guidelines, we will set up metrics to say we're going to achieve...

BASH: Commission? You -- wow, you're really sounding Washington.

SUNUNU: I know, right? It is, but they need to start somewhere, right? Nobody even wants to touch this third rail.

My argument is, the American people -- that's old way of thinking. The American people are saying, touch it, do it, fix this thing, because we don't want our benefits cut, we don't want Medicare to disappear.

BASH: Donald Trump added nearly $8 trillion to the national debt in his first term. What makes you think it's going to be different this time?

SUNUNU: A little -- I'm cautiously optimistic for a couple of reasons. Number one, I don't think he understood how Congress really fundamentally worked in 2017 and 2018.

And the reasons Republicans lost in 2018, because they talked a big game and got nothing done. I think there's a different team he's surrounded himself with, a little more professional of a team within the White House itself. He's built a lot of better coalitions. He's more established in terms of the political aspects of what he wants to do on the Hill.

And he has outsiders. And as much as people say, well, Elon is a billionaire outsider, first, I don't mind that they're billionaires. I like people that are successful. Where the difference is whether they're billionaire or broke, I'd rather have someone successful. And I like that it's an outsider and an engineer, and not a wild politician and not looking for anything out of the game.

BASH: Well, he's not that much of an outsider. In fact, one of the criticisms and the concerns is that he has billions of dollars tied up in government contracts. You don't see a conflict of interest here?

SUNUNU: Everyone has a conflict of interest at some level.

BASH: But that's like a pretty big one.

SUNUNU: True. The guy's worth $450 billion as of today and this month. So I don't think he's doing it for the money.

He's doing it for the bigger project and the bigger vision of America. He doesn't need the dollars. He really doesn't. So it's not about, oh, if I get involved in this, I will get another little contract here or there.

That's nothing to him. So I like the fact that he's -- in a way, he's so rich, he's so removed from the potential financial influence of it. But this is a car crash, if you will, of financial crises coming. We pay about a trillion in debt this year. It goes to about $1.8 trillion in 10 years because our rates are so high now.

So, when those interest payments come due, $1.8 trillion Social Security and Medicare -- but you have got to find efficiencies in government. You have got to deregulate. You have to -- they want to move Department of Agriculture out to the Midwest. I think that's great. They want to massively downsize the Department of Education and block-grant back to the states.

My big argument here is, states have already found all these efficiencies that Washington's talking about. We have already done it.

BASH: Yes.

SUNUNU: Just copy, repeat.

BASH: I want to sort of talk big picture...

SUNUNU: Yes.

BASH: ... more kind of philosophy.

You did not support Donald Trump in the primary, as I mentioned. You said he didn't represent the Republican Party. He's old. He says crazy things. He doesn't have a strong record. What do you think now?

SUNUNU: Yes, look, I mean, not my first choice and not my second or third or fourth choice within the primary process.

But, obviously, he won the primary. I don't -- I never take back a single thing I have ever said. I think, in terms of moving the party forward, there were a lot of other great candidates that were out there. He won the primary. He won the nomination. And he won the vote handily of the American people.

He's got to come through, right? At this point, it's about delivering. I think this term will be fundamentally different than the first term for a variety of reasons. He's not in his fifth year as president. He's kind of in his ninth, if you will, especially as leader of the party and the voice of the party.

And all of that centers around being that disruption. People didn't vote for him because of his policies.

BASH: Well...

SUNUNU: They voted for him because he's still seen as an outside influence to disrupt, to break the establishment.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: On immigration, I would think that maybe they...

(CROSSTALK)

SUNUNU: Oh, no, sure. I mean, but it wasn't -- that was more of a -- they were voting against Kamala's policies on immigration, on open borders, on defunding the police and all that kind of stuff.

BASH: How do you...

SUNUNU: And that's where the Democrats kind of have lost it.

BASH: How do you fit in with the sort of MAGA Republican Party? You're not MAGA.

SUNUNU: No, but I think most of the Republican -- I just -- I don't like those labels.

The vast majority of Republicans have galvanized around their candidate to break through this kind of establishment here in D.C. We have always been a spectrum in the party. We have had moderates. We have had fiscal conservatives and social moderates and social conservatives. It's a huge spectrum, and it's a big tent. And it will be.

And it will continue to be. Trump is Trump. There's no Trump-lite. There's no Trump 2.0 coming up. I always say that Trump is who he is, and because he's built up himself in the American psyche for 40 years, I mean really since the '80s.

BASH: Has he permanently changed your party?

SUNUNU: Oh, no, no, definitely not.

BASH: You think it's going to bounce back to sort of regular conservatism and not the hardcore populism?

SUNUNU: I think there's a lot more of that hardcore regular conservatism already in there, frankly. That traditional conservatism is already in there.

He brings a different style to it, which I have a lot of issues with at times, to be sure. But, fundamentally, on principle, they're still right there. The bigger DNA problem is with the Democrat Party.

BASH: You were governor during Donald Trump's first term. You tangled a bit. As you leave and your fellow Republican Kelly Ayotte takes over, what's your advice to her on how to deal with him?

[09:25:06]

SUNUNU: Yes, I have never worried about dealing with Trump.

As governor, I focus on New Hampshire. We call it the 603, Live Free or Die State. Do right by the people in New Hampshire. Call the balls and strikes like you see them. Give credit where credit is due and call criticism where that's due as well.

And if you're fair and even-keeled about it, not mean-spirited and not doing it for political purpose, people -- people understand it, they will galvanize behind it, and you take care of what you got to take care of, which is the 1.5 million people in New Hampshire.

BASH: What's next for you?

SUNUNU: I don't know. I left a resume off at the front desk.

(LAUGHTER)

SUNUNU: No, I'm just kidding.

I don't know. Private sector. I'm excited to go into the private sector, but, believe me, I will still be itching to...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Oh, wait. Here it is.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Why is there nothing on it?

(LAUGHTER)

SUNUNU: I have done 1,000 national interviews. There's my resume.

(LAUGHTER) SUNUNU: No, I will enter the private sector and see what happens.

BASH: Yes.

Happy new year.

SUNUNU: Happy new year to you.

BASH: Thanks for doing this.

SUNUNU: Thank you.

BASH: A long list of promises from the incoming administration. Which will take priority and how many can pass a fractured Congress?

My panel joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:38]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost.

The establishment protected itself. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was Donald Trump in his inaugural address eight years ago. One of the big questions is, first and foremost, what's he going to say in this year's inaugural address and then, much more importantly, how he's going to govern. How is he going to govern and how will it be different?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, I think, this time around, you are likely to see him more emboldened.

He has been here, he has done this before, and he now knows exactly what obstacles stood in his way last time. So I think Trump 2.0 is going to be everything to the max. You have seen that with some of his Cabinet picks, many of them being people who are the people that he wants, not necessarily who perhaps an establishment Republican would pick.

So I think what I expect from Donald Trump is everything that we got four years ago, but just turned up an extra degree.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree.

And then the Supreme Court eliminating the guardrails of the presidency, him coming in and all of his friends telling him that this is a mandate, although it's the second smallest victory that we have had outside of Bush v. Gore, and so he's going to come in very emboldened.

And I don't think this Donald Trump is going to be similar to the last one at all. I think he realizes that he only has four years. The difference, however, the substantive difference and something we have to watch -- and I know that media and journalists will watch it more now than we did with Joe Biden -- is that he's 78 years old.

The presidency ages you. And so I'm interested to see how Donald Trump continues to look, act, if he has the same vigor over the next two, three, four years, because being an 80-year-old president, as we have just seen for the last four years, is a bit much.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think one of the differences -- I will let you have the last word on this one, Scott, because I know you got a lot to say.

(LAUGHTER)

FINNEY: But I also think -- I think America -- I think he knows he's actually got two years. And you have heard Susie Wiles talk about this, because you have got a midterm election.

And I do think he's going to -- he's coming in hot, right? He's going to be bolder and all of that. But as we have talked about before, he also has put a lot of unelected corporate billionaires in positions where they actually stand to gain financially. And I think Americans are going to get sick of it.

I think Americans are also going to get sick of kind of what we're going to see, which is a repeat of chaos on Capitol Hill. We have already seen sort of that clash with traditional conservative values around the budget, for example, and raising the debt ceiling with the president.

I think he's not going to be able to figure out how to make folks bend to his will at every turn. And I think Democrats will stay out of the way and let folks see. This -- if this is what you want, here's the full Trump. And I do think, within two years, when we get to a midterm, it's going to be too much, and I think you're going to see a backlash.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I will tell you what I think Americans are sick of, Joe Biden, uncommon nonsense that comes out of the Democratic Party.

And they're sick of feeling like this country has been running in place, stuck in quicksand for the last four years. Three-quarters of Americans think we're on the wrong track. But there are hints of optimism in the American people.

There was a CBS News survey that came out last weekend. And more Americans thought that Donald Trump would increase peace and stability in the world than that he would not. So you can start to feel the green shoots of optimism. And so when I look ahead to what he's going to do with the inaugural

and what he could do in the first 100 days of his administration, I hope he senses that from the American people, hits the ground running and strikes the optimistic notes, because I think people are tired of having weak leadership that has taken us off in the wrong direction.

He has a real opportunity here to do something amazing. And I hope he does it.

FINNEY: Yes, I guess I just think, again, unless he does something very quickly, he's already admitted on the most important issue, right, with the cost of eggs, that he's not sure he can do it. He can't promise he's going to do it. He can't promise that he's going to hold anybody accountable to do it.

I think unless he takes -- sure, he's going to take some big, bold action probably on immigration reform. I think it's going to be the biggest thing, these deportations he keeps promising. But from a performative stance, if Americans don't start to feel something is different very soon, I think it will feel like more of the same.

I think people are in a very cynical mood right now. It was a tough election. We have seen people are not as interested in politics right now, although I'm sure they're watching us. But -- so I think they have got to also recognize that you have got to deliver something very quickly for people that make them feel like their lives are getting better.

[09:35:19]

BASH: And there is a different sort of zeitgeist in and around Donald Trump now than there was eight years ago. There just is, as evidenced by the fact that all of these CEOs who have given to Democrats not only have given to his inaugural committee, but have also gone to kiss the ring.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think eight years ago, there was a lot of, whoa, what just happened and what is this guy going to do?

And I think now there's a sense of, we kind of get why this happened. Maybe it wasn't the landslide. As Bakari notes, it was maybe closer than a landslide when all the ballots are counted. But it was still a pretty significant win.

Republicans had every right to be feeling very good, feeling like they have the wind at their back at the moment. And it's not as though we're going into the first 100 days of a Trump administration, not knowing what he's going to do. He's been extremely clear.

And so I think that's another thing that's very different is, love it or hate it, the Donald Trump 2.0 is not a question mark. He has been very up front with the American people.

BASH: And how are Democrats going to -- I mean, it's really an open question how Democrats are going to approach it. Eight years ago, there was the resistance. SELLERS: Yes. No, I'm not doing that again.

(LAUGHTER)

FINNEY: That's done.

SELLERS: But, yes, I think that a lot of Democrats are going to -- a lot of Democrats have taken and a lot of the American people have taken this approach that, look, you voted for this. This is what we voted for, the green sprouts of justice and hope and optimism -- or shoots. Excuse me.

And so we're going to sit back. I mean, you have these articles. "The New York Times" runs these articles all the time about individuals who know that Donald Trump is going to have mass deportation efforts, and those efforts include them, right, and their families.

We have seen the articles in the clips with Tom Homan and the fact that they're going to deport mixed-status families, right, all as one. I mean, we have seen those things. And so I think the imagery that we see of people being deported to countries they don't know, they have never been to, whole families being deported, children -- ending birthright citizenship, upending that, labor shortages because of it, people may like the idea.

I mean, it's like fruitcake, right? Fruitcake apparently sounds like a good idea when you mix it all together, but it's a terrible dessert item, right?

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: When you dig into it, it is just an awful dessert item. And so I think that this first 100 days is going to be a lot like fruitcake.

BASH: I think fruitcake would like a word.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: I do want to quickly talk about Mitch McConnell, because he at the end of this year stepped down as -- is stepping down as Republican leader, even though he's still going to be in the Senate.

Let's watch what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We have had divided government here most of the time I have been in this job. Neither side has owned the place. You have a choice,do nothing or try to find things you can agree on and do them together.

The Senate has no claim on greatness unless its power is put to great ends.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: Scott, you're very close with the senator. This is going to be the first time in 17 years that he is not the Senate Republican leader.

JENNINGS: Yes, I saw him just before Christmas and just after he made that speech, and it was an emotional time.

I mean, he's been in this job for a long time and he's seen massive upheaval in American politics. But I think one thing he believes about the Senate is that it is a rock. It is an institution. And so no matter what undulations we have in our politics, the Senate and the rules that govern the Senate and the way it operates is -- it's a rock on the beach.

The tides come in and out, but the rock doesn't really move, and he still very much believes in the Senate's role, no matter whether the president is of your party or not. I suspect he and President Trump are going to have some disagreements on national defense and foreign policy in the years ahead.

But make no mistake, he's not going anywhere. He's got two years left and I know he's got some big things on his mind.

BASH: All right, everybody, stand by, because we are going to talk next about President Biden and how his four-year term is going to be remembered after a very long career.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:40]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must restore the soul of America.

Not just to build back, but to build back better.

Vaccines are safe. There's nothing political about them.

I was not going to extend this forever war.

Putin chose this war.

Israel has the right to defend itself and its people, full stop.

The best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back.

Look, it is going to be really just days from now that Joe Biden will no longer be president. How will his time in office be remembered? I think there's a short -- probably a shorter-term question and then a longer-term question.

FINNEY: Sure. I agree with that.

Look, I think, in the longer term, we will remember that this is a president and vice president who helped us come back from the brink during COVID, when people were dying by the hundreds of thousands on a daily basis, and we were in our homes, and companies and small businesses were falling off a cliff. And he helped to get the -- get vaccines, get us out of our homes, get us back to work, and invested in this country.

I think one of things that you will see him doing with the time that he has left is more around investments in the CHIPS and Science ACT. I think that's actually going to be transformational in communities around the country. I think Donald Trump will take credit for it, but I -- but Joe Biden's record with regard to the things that he's accomplished, I think, will stand the test of time.

[09:45:06]

Now, what my dear friend Scott and others will talk about, and, quite frankly, I'm going to say this on it rightfully so, it was very disturbing to learn late in the year about just how bad -- how poor his health has become.

And, like many, I did not realize that it had gotten to that point. That being said, I think he still -- look, he showed up for the job. He got the work done. I think some of the accomplishments also in the Middle East and foreign policy will also stand the test of time.

JENNINGS: You think the Middle East is in better shape today than when he took office?

FINNEY: Well, I think he got our hostages home. I think that's a big deal. I think it's important to...

JENNINGS: I'm sorry, which hostages?

FINNEY: He's gotten a number of people home.

JENNINGS: There's still 100 people over there...

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Well, there were more than that.

JENNINGS: ... including some Americans.

Look, I think he's going to leave office in disgrace. The Hunter Biden pardon was disgraceful. He's going to be remembered largely for inflation and for the disastrous Afghanistan pullout. And I think as we continue to -- we're just getting the first draft of this now.

But as we continue to learn about the massive cover-up that went on, not about his health, but about his mental acuity, to cover that up, the efforts that were undertaken by the White House staff, by his family, not in the last couple of months, but for all four years, I think it's going to be a really ugly chapter.

It's a diminished presidency because of it. And I think we still don't know the full extent of what they did to try to hide what they have been doing over in the West Wing.

SELLERS: Well, I think leaving in disgrace is when you have an insurrection at the state -- at the Capitol. Like, that's leaving in disgrace.

Being impeached twice is leaving in disgrace. So that's a difference. I think Joe Biden's going to be remembered in the short term for what you were talking about, whether or not he had the capacity to lead, who knew what when. I mean, there are many people -- outside of the very small network of Anita Dunn and Valerie Biden Owens and Jill Biden and Hunter, there aren't many people who knew the concerns that were there or whether or not he was up or fit for the job.

And so those questions will be asked. Over the long term, this is somebody a lot like Mitch McConnell. You don't necessarily have to agree with everything they stood for. You don't have to agree with every vote. But you always knew they put the American people first. You always knew that.

We had different paths of getting there, but that's what they believed in. They believed in this country. They believed in these institutions, and they did their best to strengthen them from different perspectives and different purchase.

Tangibly, Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, putting Ketanji Brown Jackson on the Supreme Court, I mean, these are things -- you have prescription prices that are capped, things that Donald Trump's going to take credit for emerging from COVID. Tangibly, from a political perspective, bipartisanship, that's what Joe Biden means.

BASH: Go ahead.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think, in the short term, he will be remembered in part by the sense of buyer's remorse that a lot of voters, I think, felt, that there was hope when he had come into office in the wake of January 6 and what have you to say, I want to be a president who's going to be unifying and I'm going to be a president who's going to set up the next generation of Democratic leadership.

And I think a lot of voters feel like they did not come away from these four years with a world that feels more stable, an economy that feels better. And so, in the short term, it's that buyer's remorse that they didn't get the Biden presidency they were perhaps hoping for.

And that's why we have Donald Trump coming back, which leads into this longer-term legacy of he could have been someone that could have said, I am representing this past era of leadership, I'm going to do it my way, and then I'm going to hand over the reins.

The fact that he gave that speech saying it's time to hand over the reins in January of 2024 and not pretty early on in his presidency, especially with what we know now about how long he's been experiencing these challenges, I think that's the long-term challenge of the legacy he will face.

BASH: All right, before we go, a quick whip-around, very quick, predictions, 2025.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I'm feeling somewhat optimistic about the way things are going in a lot of global hot spots. So whether it is in the Middle East, where things seem particularly unstable and chaotic, or whether it's this long and drawn-out conflict with Russia and Ukraine, I do think that, even though Donald Trump and I are not always on the same page when it comes to foreign policy, I'm optimistic that his new approach can bring about something.

FINNEY: OK, so I'm going to go a little bit more fun.

If you may have noticed the last couple of weeks, though, members of Congress, when they show up on television, they're in like their flannel shirts, they're in like a shirt and a vest. I think we're going to see members adopt this sort of John Fetterman modality.

BASH: I was just going to say, is it the Fettermanization?

(LAUGHTER)

FINNEY: It's the Fetterman effect, yes, and try to be like, hey, I'm a real person. I'm in my flannel.

BASH: You didn't adopt that this morning.

JENNINGS: No, no, no, what am I, a hobo?

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: I'm going to come on television. I'm a broadcast professional.

BASH: You know why you're not? Because it's not 1960.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Republicans and Democrats, I should say.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: I have two, one on the domestic front.

I think Republicans are going to pass a few bills between the 3rd and the 20th for Donald Trump to sign on day one. And, number two, I'm going to try to make a prediction for the hope of bringing this into reality. I hope the hostages and believe the hostages will be released, the ones that are still there. We need them back.

[09:50:01]

There are a lot of families that have been waiting for a very long time. So I'm going to predict that they're coming back, and as soon as possible.

SELLERS: I believe the hostages are coming home. I believe they will come home on Joe Biden's watch. I know they have been working diligently to do that. And that's my prayer.

The second thing is, I think that the most anticlimactic political event that we're seeing is this race for DNC chair that absolutely nobody cares about.

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: I hope that somebody else emerges as a candidate.

BASH: How about you?

SELLERS: Well, let's go to commercial break.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Thank you. Appreciate it. You don't need me anymore.

Happy new year, one and all. Thank you so much for a terrific 2024.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:12]

BASH: Join the party as Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen ring in the new year with celebrations from all over the United States and all around the world. It's all going to start at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday right here on CNN.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us and 2024. Happy new year.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.