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State of the Union
Interview With Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R-NY); Interview With Rep. Hillary Scholten (D-MI); Interview With Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN); Interview With U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins. Aired 9- 10a ET
Aired April 06, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:35]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Trade war. Stocks dive, and jitters rise.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): They're not only bad economically. They're bad politically.
TAPPER: As President Trump takes on the world.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The markets are going to boom. The stock is going to boom.
TAPPER: How long will the tariff disruption last? And how much more will Americans pay?
Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins joins me exclusively next.
And meet the moment? Protesters take to the streets and Democrats see an opening.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): We will do better.
TAPPER: My next guest is on a red state blitz.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): We got ourselves in this mess.
TAPPER: How does he think the party should move forward? Governor Tim Walz is here exclusively.
Plus: promises kept. From tariffs to deportations, health policy, and history itself, is this what voters wanted?
TRUMP: Promises made, promises kept. Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle join our political panel ahead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is a bit rattled. We're days into a fundamental shift in the global financial order, and
at least, as of right now, it's not going particularly smoothly. President Trump's 10 percent across-the-board tariffs went into effect yesterday, on top of what he calls reciprocal global tariffs to hit this Wednesday, which could deepen the worldwide shock that we have seen in our 401(k)s, a shock that sent Wall Street plunging to its worst week since the COVID pandemic hit these shores, a loss so deep and so sudden, it's only happened four times ever.
And that shock, we should note, wiped out $6.6 trillion in value right off the map. Trump's tariffs invited scathing coverage from traditional conservative allies. See here a devastating split screen from "The Wall Street Journal," as the president undertook days of golfing down in Mar-a-Lago.
He just arrived this morning, but not to worry. The White House put out a statement yesterday saying -- quote -- "The president won his second round matchup of the senior club championship today in Jupiter, Florida, and advances to the championship round tomorrow.'
That was yesterday, so that championship round is today.
Congratulations, Mr. President. I'm glad someone out there can relax. So many Americans are worried about changes to their retirement savings and their grocery bills and their cost of buying a car.
Millions of concerned Americans were demonstrating against President Trump in every single State of the Union yesterday over what they called an attack on American rights and freedoms.
Let's talk about these tariffs now with somebody who has had to deal very closely with the tariffs and the fallout from the tariffs. The secretary of agriculture, Brooke Rollins, joins us now.
Secretary Rollins, welcome to STATE OF THE UNION. Thanks so much for joining us.
Fed Chair Jerome Powell says that these tariffs could drive inflation back up and throttle growth. J.P. Morgan raised the likelihood of a recession by the end of this year from 40 percent to 60 percent. And take a listen to what Republican Senator Ted Cruz, a Trump ally from your home state of Texas, had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): If we're in a scenario 30 days from now, 60 days from now, 90 days from now with massive American tariffs and massive tariffs on American goods in every other country on Earth, that is a terrible outcome.
It's terrible for America. It will hurt jobs and hurt America.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, how long do you anticipate this tariff chaos is going to be going on, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? BROOKE ROLLINS, U.S. SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: Well, first of all,
Jake, thank you for having me.
I think it's really important to realize that last Wednesday was when the president announced this new American order, the new American economic plan. We're now two days in, right? You have got two days of data. Everyone, especially on your side, on the left, is freaking out.
TAPPER: I'm not on the left.
ROLLINS: But at the end of the day, listen, this whole concept...
(LAUGHTER)
ROLLINS: All right, Jake, thank you.
This whole concept is about rebuilding an American economy around American goods, around American industry. We do already live under a tariff regime in this country, but it's the tariff regime of China, of Mexico, of Brazil, of Australia, of countries that -- Mexico won't take our corn. Australia won't take our beef.
The country of Honduras takes more pork than the entire European Union does, American pork, I should say. So from our farming and ranching perspective, which is what I'm focused on, but happy to talk about anything, that it has to -- it is time for a change, and that's what this president evoked last Wednesday.
So I think we will see in short order a really positive outcome from this. We already have 50, 5-0, 50 countries that have come to the table over the last few days, over the last weeks that are willing and desperate to talk to us.
[09:05:01]
We are the economic engine of the world, and it's finally time that someone, President Trump, stood up for America.
TAPPER: You have said a lot about how this is a negotiation. You just mentioned it again.
Just yesterday, President Trump said -- quote -- "Big business is not worried about the tariffs because they know they are here to stay" -- unquote.
And take a listen to the commerce secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: I don't think there's any chance they're going to -- that President Trump's going to back off his tariffs. This is the reordering of global trade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So are these tariffs to be negotiated, or are these tariffs here to stay? I'm still not getting a clear message on that.
ROLLINS: Well, listen, this is a national security issue. This is about reshoring thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of jobs.
This is about moving our American farmers and ranchers into a new era of prosperity. This is about strong and bold leadership. And I will tell you, Jake, this isn't just some new sort of concept that just came up under the Trump years, under the last eight or 12 years. This started in 1791 with Alexander Hamilton, when he wrote a whole premise on the idea that Americans and the whole concept of America was founded on a fervent, positive protection of our goods out of America.
And for 150 years, that was the approach, 150 years. And that's when America went from basically a frontier country to the world's largest, most exceptional economic power. And it was the dawn of the progressive era, about 100 years ago, that began to move back toward this idea of America being a neutral arbiter on the world stage.
Well, listen, it's time to go back to our founding fathers' vision. And so as we move forward, this president is the chief dealmaker. He will ensure that America is put first, that all of these tariffs, a 300 percent tariff on our dairy products from Canada, I mean, it's absurd what our farmers and ranchers and our manufacturers have had to deal with over the last decades, and it's time to fix it.
TAPPER: Yes, the question was, are these tariffs here to stay, as Howard Lutnick and President Trump seem to be suggesting, or is there going to be room for negotiation, as you seem to be suggesting?
ROLLINS: Listen, we have got 50 countries that are burning the phone lines into the White House up and probably the president's cell phone as well and probably Howard Lutnick's as well.
And I have heard from some as well. This is the ultimate dealmaker who is a businessman at the head of our government, finally, that the American people said, all swing states, all the popular vote, tariffs were a part of his plan. We're going to put America first.
And he will do everything in his power all day, every day to do just that. Right now, we're two business days into this new American order. So I think we have a lot to be determined, but the president is resolute in his focus and his boldness and his fearlessness and in his relentlessness to ensure that we're putting America first by using these tariffs, along with deregulation, cutting taxes, energy dominance.
It's an entire package, but, right now, obviously, the tariffs are front and center.
TAPPER: I agree President Trump talked about tariffs on the campaign trail. I think probably a lot of voters thought that he was talking about the kind of targeted tariffs that he implemented in the first term, and not these global tariffs that have diminished -- wiped $6.6 trillion of wealth off of Wall Street.
But I have to say he didn't, when he was campaigning, talk about the pain that he is now acknowledging. And I have to say, we're getting a very Pollyannish view of what's happening from the Trump administration.
ROLLINS: I disagree with that, Jake.
TAPPER: Well, let me just finish the question. Let me just finish the question, and then you can answer it.
ROLLINS: I -- that's not right.
TAPPER: But there seems to be a lack of acknowledgement of the real pain and panic people are feeling right now.
And I don't know if you saw it because you were on TV, but there was a moment on Thursday. You were on FOX Business. You were praising President Trump's leadership, celebrating these tariffs, and all the graphics surrounding you -- again, this is on FOX business -- showed the markets in a nosedive.
And so you disagree that I'm saying -- I say there seems to be a disconnect between what you're saying and the reaction of the world. Tell me why you disagree.
ROLLINS: Listen, the president has -- even in a State of the Union, I believe, he said that there will be some uncertainty.
When we did the targeted tariffs in 2017, '18, '19 with China, I mean, listen, I was in the West Wing. I was helping run his domestic policy agenda. I was in those conversations. Secretary Sonny Perdue, the secretary of agriculture, put together a fund basically that allowed us to make whole farmers and ranchers that were immediately hurt and had to have some mitigation efforts.
That happened. So the idea that we didn't know that there would be some uncertainty just isn't true. We knew there would be uncertainty. But to take Thursday or Friday, and as we are basically laying out the vision that the president effectuated in the Rose Garden on Wednesday and to say, oh, the world is ending, the markets are crashing, the markets are adjusting.
[09:10:11]
Any time you have got a strong leader who's looking at the long term, not how do I make sure Jake Tapper says nice things about me on STATE OF THE UNION, oh, maybe I shouldn't do the tariffs today, that just isn't how this president operates.
He operates in, how do I save a country that for 100 years has been sliding toward decline, as we have moved all of our manufacturing out into the world, as we have bowed at the altar of other countries' tariffs, as we as we have watched our farmers and our ranchers -- again, can't get our corn into Mexico, can't get our dairy into Canada, have Honduras buying more pork and poultry than the entire European Union, have a 700 percent tariff from Japan on our rice.
This is not OK. And it is not sustainable. And for us to continue to build our agriculture, which is the backbone of our country, but also our manufacturing base, our energy, et cetera, for us to be able to do that, we have to put America first.
TAPPER: So...
ROLLINS: So, those tariffs, as the economy, the market begins to adjust, we will see a more positive -- as we move, I believe, very quickly.
TAPPER: So, just in point of fact, the reason that the European Union, even though they are our fourth biggest market for agricultural products, as you know, don't take as much American pork as you would like is because they have issues with hormones used in pork.
I don't want to get into a whole debate over that, but that's not -- it's not an issue about tariffs.
But let me ask you about the computation of these tariffs because conservative economists at the American Enterprise Institute...
ROLLINS: But wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, Jake. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is really important. You can't just say that.
So here's the bottom line. They are using fake science and unsubstantiated claims to not take our products. So it isn't just that they have high tariffs. Thank you for making this point for me, by the way. I meant to make it. It's not just the tariff numbers. It's the way they have treated our products.
Oh, sorry, we can't take your beef since 2002 because you use a certain type of feed. That's just absolute bull. It is not correct and not appropriate. Our supplies, our farmers and ranchers, we produce the safest, the most secure, the best food in the world. And so to use that, for the E.U. to say, oh, oh, my goodness, we can't do it because of this reason, it's absolutely wrong and it's not based on sound science.
TAPPER: OK, you can take that up with the Europeans.
Conservative economists at the American Enterprise Institute say that when the Trump administration...
ROLLINS: I will.
TAPPER: ... came up with these tariff rates, you should have used as a basis the elasticity in the response of import prices to tariffs, instead of retail prices.
And AEI, a conservative group, says, because the Trump administration mixed that up, the entire computation is wrong and these tariff rates are set four times too high. They make a compelling case. Is that true?
ROLLINS: Listen, I'm from the think tank world. I ran multiples of think tanks. I built the America First Policy Institute in the intervening four years between Trump one and Trump two. I have a lot of good friends at the American Enterprise Institute.
I don't mean to throw all of them under the bus, but I will say this. AEI has never been a friend of the president's. They have never been a friend of an America first agenda. They have never come alongside and helped us effectuate what we believe is today's conservative vision for America.
TAPPER: Yes, but did you use retail prices, instead of import prices?
ROLLINS: And they're just wrong on this.
TAPPER: So they're -- you didn't? You didn't use...
ROLLINS: They're just wrong.
Jamieson Greer and Howard Lutnick and Scott Bessent, these are the smartest, most incredible economists, businessmen on our side, along with President Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and others. I have 100 percent faith in the formulas that they used and how they came up with these numbers.
TAPPER: All right, I mean, they say that you used retail prices, as opposed to import prices, and they make a compelling case. I'd ask you to check it out.
The reason I ask you is because...
ROLLINS: I have not read...
TAPPER: Yes. Well, I'd ask you to check it out. You should read it.
ROLLINS: I will. I will.
TAPPER: The reason I ask is because a lot of people are questioning the level of scholarship here behind how these tariffs were done.
For example, President Trump laid out with a giant graphic of all the countries where tariffs were going to be -- what he called reciprocal tariffs were going to be imposed. And you're imposing a 10 percent tariff on the Heard Island and McDonald Islands. The Heard Island and McDonald Islands have zero human inhabitants. They have zero exports. They have zero imports.
They do have a lot of penguins. Why are you putting import tariffs on islands that are entirely populated by penguins?
ROLLINS: Well, I mean, that -- come on, Jake. Obviously, here's the bottom line. We live under a tariff regime from other countries.
We have too long seen...
TAPPER: Not -- the McDonald Islands is not imposing...
ROLLINS: The idea that America goes first -- I mean, come on. Whatever. Listen, the people that are leading this are serious, intentional,
patriotic, the smartest people I have ever worked with. I did not come up with the formulas. I'm the ag secretary. I studied agriculture at Texas A&M. I was in a lot of conversations to make sure our farmers and our ranchers were part of that.
[09:15:03]
The president recognized the importance of inputs. We got potash and fertilizer to make sure they could do their planting. But I have no doubt that I speak on behalf of President Trump when he would say he has the utmost confidence in the team and what they have built and what they have put together.
And we are unleashing a new golden age, and we will see an economy that will benefit not just every corner of America, but our farmers and our ranchers and the people that have been left behind for far too long by both Republicans and Democrats.
TAPPER: So you say that America's farmers and ranchers understand there's going to be this short time of uncertainty, and there were obviously financial help for farmers and ranchers during the first Trump administration.
ROLLINS: Yes.
TAPPER: Take a listen to North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Anyone who says there may be a little bit of pain before we get things right need to talk about farmers, who are one crop away from bankruptcy. They don't have time.
So we have got to be crisp on this implementation. Otherwise, we could do damage that's irreparable to farmers and businesses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What's your response to Senator Tillis?
ROLLINS: So, the bottom line is this.
In the last four years, the cost of inputs for our farmers went up 30 percent. In the last four years, we had an agriculture export deficit that increased from zero when President Trump left to $49 billion. Our farming and -- our farmers and ranchers are hurting.
They are operating at profits of -- margins of profit that are thinner than they have in a really long time due to the policies of the last four years.
But, to Senator Tillis' point, we have to be prepared that, if there is longer-term damage -- and this president has been very focused on this, and I have been saying it pretty much ad nauseam for the last 50 days since I have been in office -- is that we will make sure that we have the funds in working with the senators and working with the appropriators that we can do what we did last time, which I think Secretary Perdue last time spent about $25 billion to $28 billion to mitigate some of the fallout from the last tariffs for the short term.
The long term, the tariffs worked. I mean, the research shows that we had an increase in productivity, increase in jobs, et cetera, until, frankly, the Biden administration stopped enforcing some of those -- the deal once we left office in 2021.
TAPPER: All right Secretary Rollins, thanks so much for joining us today. We really appreciate your time and your expertise.
ROLLINS: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: Kamala Harris says, well, she warned you.
Her running mate, Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, is going to join us to weigh in on that and much more next.
And Republicans in Congress have pretty much walked away from their role as a co-equal branch of government, critics say. As tariffs start to bite, is that about to change?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:22:14]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because there were many things that we knew would happen, many things. I'm not here to say, I told you so.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Former Vice President Kamala Harris back with a little "I told you so" this week, as President Trump's tariffs are setting off global shockwaves.
So what does Harris' former running mate think?
Well, Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota has been on a national town hall tour through red congressional districts from Iowa to Texas to Ohio. And he joins us now from Columbus.
Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota.
You're the governor of an agriculture-heavy state, one of the top five in the country. I believe what's your reaction to what you just heard from the agriculture secretary?
WALZ: Yes, good morning, Jake. Well, I'm stunned. Your questions were spot on. It's very clear that
she talked about the people she's listening to. That is not the agricultural community. It is certainly not producers. It's not folks like Cargill, CHS, General Mills, who are out in my district.
Look, this is a really precarious time. And the flippant nature that we're just trying something new here is really dangerous. These markets took us years to develop, and we have to be dependable trading partners. They don't come back overnight.
And everyone knows, in the history of trade wars, agriculture gets hit the hardest. So I'm deeply concerned. It's our number one export. Adding the tariffs -- our two biggest export markets Mexico and Canada. They are great friends. This is just really, really terrifying.
I would encourage -- and I will call the secretary. I'd encourage her to come to Minnesota and see everything that she said is not what's happening on the ground. So, look, it's a precarious time.
TAPPER: So let me ask you, because another group you're in touch with are, the United Auto Workers union, you have a lot of -- that they have supported you for years and years and years.
WALZ: Yes.
TAPPER: They were excited to have you on the Democratic ticket. President Trump argues that these tariffs are needed to bring American manufacturing back and to help American workers left behind in places like Minnesota.
He has support from the UAW. The UAW called his auto tariffs -- quote -- "a long-overdue shift away from a harmful economic framework that has devastated the working class. It signals a return to policies that prioritize the workers who build this country, rather than the greed of ruthless corporations" -- unquote.
I have to say that sounds a lot like language you would use. What do you say to the UAW?
WALZ: Yes, it is what I would use.
And here's the thing that the Democrats have to figure out. Donald Trump's language around this, he's not wrong that we have had manufacturing gutted. He's not wrong that we saw an outshoring. People of my generation were told there aren't going to be any manufacturing jobs, so you need to go to college and rack up student loan debt.
The problem is, Donald Trump's solution to this is not the solution. Now, UAW is right. Certain tariffs, if they're on to steel or if they're targeted correctly, do make a difference. That's not what we're dealing with here.
[09:25:02]
So, just last week, 650 taconite miners are laid off. Those taconite miners are mining the taconite to make the steel to build the automobiles. So I don't disagree where they're at.
And I think this is the Democratic dilemma. Donald Trump talks about the things that are real in the angst of people's lives. He doesn't do a damn thing about it. In fact, he does just the opposite. And he pals around with the people that caused the problem. And we don't offer them a solution, so it looks like we're not hearing them.
So I disagree with Shawn Fain and UAW on this issue. I don't disagree with them on that we made decisions over the last 30 to 40 years that I don't think helped America. But this is not the solution to it. Isolating ourselves is not the solution. We need to make sure that we're focusing -- and, again, I would just end with this, Jake.
Donald Trump has not once ever cared about workers. This is why you need to support unions across the board, support the ability to have a living wage.
TAPPER: So you're in Ohio right now. You have been holding these town halls in red districts across the country. You're saying Democrats need to do a better job of reaching Trump voters.
WALZ: Yes.
TAPPER: I want to play something you said at an event in Texas last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: We let them define the issue on immigration. We let them define the issue on DNI -- DEI, and we let them define what woke is.
We got ourselves in this mess because we weren't bold enough to stand up and say, you're damn right we're proud of these policies.
(CHEERING)
WALZ: We're going to put them in and we're going to execute them.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I mean, the issues you identified there were immigration...
WALZ: That's right.
TAPPER: ... DEI and woke.
You think Democrats' problem was that you just didn't do a good enough job explaining the policies and not that voters simply didn't just reject what you were selling, particularly on immigration, I wonder?
WALZ: No, on immigration, what we were asking for is a bipartisan policy that strengthens immigration control, that recognizes that we need a work force here, that they should be allowed here legally, and that, when they get here, they're part of the American fabric. And that is the bipartisan bill we had. Donald Trump snatching up
college grad students and sending them back or sending folks to El Salvador illegally, that's not the policy. But for us -- for them to say we don't care that violent criminals come in, we most certainly do.
What we were asking for is the resources to make sure they don't get here,and the same thing with the other policies. It's not a woke policy to provide food for children to get breakfast and lunch, and we get better outcomes from that. They defined things on their terms that weren't true.
And what I'm saying is, are we going to turn away from being a country of legal immigration? Are we going to turn away from a country that thinks diversity and making sure that we don't have gaps in income between blacks and whites? Those are policies that have strengthened America.
And I think what we allowed ourselves to do is, we got timid. And then, when we got power, we didn't pass things that improved people's lives. This whole idea -- I think the Democratic Party gets theoretical. We talk about food insecurity. People are hungry. Get them food. People don't have a house. Make sure they have a living wage.
That's the point that I'm saying is. FOX News will glorify, oh, he's for DEI. Not your definition of DEI. My definition is rule of law that's fair, that everybody gets an opportunity. And that's the point I think we have to make.
Now, look, I will be the first to tell you, Jake, I'm out here doing what I can do. I don't know if I'm the best spokesperson to do it after just losing an election. But what I know is, the public -- and you saw it across the country this weekend -- they're rising up and asking their leadership to do something.
TAPPER: So we heard your former running mate Kamala Harris say she's not here to say I told you so, although obviously that's what she was saying about all the Trump chaos.
We're seeing -- I have to say, though, what does I told you so really mean here? I mean, people heard her message. They did not vote for her.
WALZ: Yes.
TAPPER: She lost every battleground state. You yourself have criticized the Harris/Walz campaign for being too cautious.
She may have told the American people -- she may have warned the American people, but she didn't do it compellingly enough to win.
WALZ: That is the absolute point.
And, look, when I criticize, I'm criticizing myself. I own this. I'm part of the ticket. And somebody has to come up with a strategy. I think this is exactly right. This is the thing. Look, Democrats, it was a good night in Wisconsin. I was over there. We saw that happen.
Donald Trump's doing this. Just to be clear, nobody on the Democratic side is celebrating this. And those folks in the street are not celebrating that Donald Trump's making all these errors. I think what the vice president saying is, that was pretty self-evident that he was going to do that.
I do think the challenge for Democrats -- and this is, I think, a structural problem that's going to take a lot more thinking. Why, with all of that out there, did they not think we were any better than that? And they didn't. And I'm very concerned with the folks who stayed home.
And these are folks that I will say once again Donald Trump has identified their angst. They can't buy a house. They can't afford to get a good education. They're concerned that their economic future is so precarious it could slip out from under them. Less than half of Americans have $1,000 in savings.
[09:30:02]
And I think, why was it not so compelling? It should have been a slam dunk for us to say, we're the party that cares about that. We're the party that's going to protect Social Security and Medicare. We're the party that thinks the ACA is a good start, but we need to do more on health care. And we didn't do that.
So I'm concerned. Democrats do well in special elections and off-year elections, but the electorate that comes in presidential election years is different. When I was young, it was easy to know what a Democrat was. They stood with the working class and labor. Republicans were country club and for the rich.
Today, you ask people, they don't -- we have a 29 percent approval rating.
TAPPER: Yes.
WALZ: It doesn't help us any that Donald Trump ends up with a 25 percent approval rating. We have to get back to the core issues that this is about making America prosperous and stable and innovative for everybody.
TAPPER: Well, what do you make of the criticism that the reason -- one of the reasons why your party was so resoundingly rejected last November is because Democrats were gaslighting the country, saying that inflation was not a big deal, heralding Bidenomics, not only Biden, but Kamala Harris was heralding Bidenomics...
WALZ: Yes.
TAPPER: ... pretending that there wasn't a problem at the border?
And then fundamentally this idea that President Biden was up for another four years of the job, while Americans in poll after poll for year after year were saying, he's too old to do the job, your party stood against all of those.
WALZ: Yes, look, Joe Biden and coming in and doing COVID, and being a governor through COVID, did a hell of a job.
But I think one of the things that we didn't do was is, we assumed that we said -- and it was true -- that we were going to have a soft landing and our economy was better than the rest of the world. Better for who? Better for the working class, who was saying groceries were too expensive, as they are now and going up?
They got to see us talk about things. Again, I go back to this. Don't talk about food insecurity or housing type of issues. Talk about people being hungry and wondering where they're going to live or about their children's future, about real security. And so I think your question is spot on.
I think we got intellectualized on this. I think the fact of the matter is Joe Biden did soft-land the economy. He did usher us through COVID. None of us are saying we should be soft on the border. But we allow a vacuum, and Donald Trump fills it, the 800-pound gorilla, and their narrative starts to stick, and we look weak.
We look weak like we don't care. We look like we -- look, Jake, I'm not going to say, you know, what we need to do is, we need to just arrest people and ship them to El Salvador. No, what we need to do, invest the money on border. We need to make sure that we have the judges necessary to adjudicate things faster. We need to make sure, if you're going to be in this country here legally, when you are, you're going to be uplifted, celebrated and part of this great American tapestry.
We didn't do that. And then they -- it fills them. They will find the example that is horrific, where you have someone who's not here legally and they commit a crime. That is horrific.
TAPPER: Yes, don't you...
WALZ: But we don't do a good job of telling that.
TAPPER: Don't you think your party needs to acknowledge that President Biden was not up for the job of running for reelection and that this was a major mistake by the...
WALZ: He made that decision.
TAPPER: I know.
WALZ: Yes. Well, he made that decision.
TAPPER: But you all went along with the idea that he was up for it. And he wasn't. And everybody saw it, and the country rejected it.
WALZ: Yes, well, I -- look, history will tell us to go back on that. That very well could be the case, Jake.
What I'm concerned about is learning from those lessons. I would hope we would never do it again, make a mistake. Make sure we go through and get someone. But I don't know where it helps us going forward.
I certainly am deeply concerned that Donald Trump is going to lead us down a horrific -- look, thank God it's tariffs that he said -- Donald Trump listens to no one. Remember, Donald Trump has statements about, I don't think nuclear war would be that bad.
I guess we're lucky that he went after tariffs, instead of that route. We have an issue in this country that is going to impact us. And if there is not a loyal opposition, if there's not some soul-searching on our side, if there's not reaching out to those folks who are in the streets, they're leading right now.
TAPPER: So, quick question...
WALZ: I would tell everybody, you better get with them. Yes.
TAPPER: Quick question, because we got to go.
But you said you're not going to run for the Senate seat there. Are you going to run for a third term for governor? Are you possibly going to run for president in 2028?
WALZ: Well, I'm certainly thinking about running again in Minnesota, if that's what they want. I am not thinking about running in 2028.
And my advice to folks is, if in this moment you're planning for 2028, you're going to get rolled by the people in the streets. You just need to be out there making sure you're helping and doing things like Cory Booker's doing, doing things like Bernie Sanders, AOC, things that we see people out talking to folks.
So, for me, I'm going to get through this legislative session. If the folks in Minnesota want me, I'm kind of inclined to do that. And I just want to play my part to make sure we cannot afford to allow Donald Trump or his successor to go forward, because you're seeing the pain.
TAPPER: Good to have you back here, Governor Walz.
Oh, and happy birthday, 61 years young today. Congratulations.
WALZ: Sixty-one. Thanks so much.
TAPPER: Good to see you.
How worried are Republicans getting about President Trump's trade war? Well, I'm going to ask one on my panel next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:39:22]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I win the election, we will immediately begin a brand-new Trump economic boom. Vote Trump, and your incomes will soar, your net worth will skyrocket.
Groceries, cars, how -- everything, we're going to get the prices down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
President Trump making a lot of promises on the campaign trail. Is the reality today different from what his voters expected?
My panel joins me now.
And let me talk to one of the two Trump voters we have at the table, Congresswoman Malliotakis.
Do you think that there are Trump voters who might have some regret today, given what's going on in the markets with their 401(k)s?
REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): Well, I think people are coming into this looking, look, the president has secured the border. Border crossings have down 95 percent. He is deporting tens of thousands of people who have been dangerous, including murderers from New York City.
[09:40:05]
He is also making sure that, look, we have seen mortgage rates come down, inflation has come down, egg prices have come down. These are things you cannot ignore. It's been -- he's brought home over -- or around a dozen hostages, people who were held overseas.
And he, within two months, was able to get them back. So is there a little concern about the market? Absolutely, there is. I think it is a little bit of an overexaggeration by the market at this moment, and I would equate it to a little turbulence as you move to smooth skies.
But you have seen trillions of dollars in investment. You have seen companies saying that they're going to expand operations here, and, of course, a great jobs report the other day, nearly a quarter-of-a- million new jobs.
TAPPER: So, Congresswoman Scholten, go ahead.
REP. HILLARY SCHOLTEN (D-MI): A jobs report that came out before the market started crashing.
And Americans lost $4 trillion in savings. You can't ignore -- you're talking about giving subsidies to farmers because you know how bad this is going to be. America is losing under Trump. The American people are losing under Trump.
TAPPER: So let me just bring this up. Here's Trump's message to voters, if we can bring that up.
"This is an economic revolution, and we will win. Hang tough. It won't be easy, but the end result will be historic."
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
TAPPER: Now, that is not the same message that we heard during the campaign.
URBAN: A little bit, though, Jake.
If you go back, look at Donald Trump 35 years ago. Look at him on Oprah 35, 40 years ago. Listen, Congresswoman, you can shake your head as much as you want. I'm from Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. I invite you to come to my hometown. I invite you to come. I invite you to come to see where my dad worked, which is now a brownfield site.
So what -- who are we to blame for those jobs being offshored over the past 40 years?
SCHOLTEN: And, David, I...
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Hold on. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You don't have to lecture people from Michigan about brownfields.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLTEN: Listen, you don't have to tell a congresswoman from Michigan about brownfield sites. I invite you to come to my district and listen to Republicans in my district, who are saying they regret their vote.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Let me finish.
Donald Trump is trying to rectify bad policy, Republican and Democratic policy, over the past 40 years. So it's going to be a little painful to get these jobs to come back. We have had policies which has encouraged, which has encouraged manufacturing to go overseas.
What do we have to do to encourage manufacturing to come back? That's what Donald Trump is trying to do. I guarantee you, if you told Americans, would you be willing to pay a dollar more for tube socks if we made them in America, they would say, sure, we will take that pain. And that's what's happening.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Maybe you and I would, David. I don't know that...
(CROSSTALK) URBAN: Jake, I think every American -- I think every American would do it because we want to make...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: Well, you and I can afford it. We can afford it.
URBAN: We want to make things. Listen, we want to make things in America. And if you explain to people, Jake, that that $1.50 would go to their neighbors who are working in factories in America, they would take it day in and day out. I promise you, Congresswoman.
TAPPER: Congresswoman?
SCHOLTEN: Again, I invite you to come to my district.
URBAN: I will go. Let's go. We will go. We will go together. I will come with you. You come to Aliquippa.
SIMMONS: Let her finish.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHOLTEN: The town halls that we have been doing, where we are seeing Republicans and Democrats alike -- I went to a county that Trump won by 20 points, hundreds of people showing up and saying, I'm a Republican. I voted for Trump. And this is not what I voted for.
TAPPER: Let me just -- one thing that's interesting, tech billionaire Elon Musk, first buddy, big Trump booster, he joined Italy's far right League Party rally this weekend to give his take on the new Trump tariffs. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: I hope it is agreed that both Europe and the United States should move ideally, in my view, to a zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone between Europe and North America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He also on tweets this weekend, Jamal, seemed to be taking shots at Peter Navarro, who is obviously one of the masterminds of this tariff strategy, beyond President Trump, of course.
Is he diverging from the administration, you think?
SIMMONS: Well, it seems like Elon Musk is -- he has got sort of a funny position inside. We have heard about other conversations he's had with secretaries that haven't gone very well. He's usurping his powers and going -- dipping into other people's departments.
I think no one elected Elon Musk, the billionaire, the richest man in the world who paid as much money as anybody's ever paid into a presidential campaign. SCHOLTEN: Trump's top campaign donor.
SIMMONS: Right, Trump's top campaign donor.
(LAUGHTER)
SIMMONS: I think nobody elected him. And people are kind of worried about this.
What's happening right now is the uncertainty that the president and his administration are putting into the markets are creating -- are wreaking havoc all over the place. We don't talk about this because we think about the richest people who own so much stock.
Most Americans have stocking mutual funds, have stocks in their 401(k)s.
TAPPER: Yes.
SIMMONS: If you're about to retire, you see what's happening right now, this does not make you more confident. And I think there are a lot of people who are worried about it.
TAPPER: So, Congresswoman, obviously, this is a very real issue for everybody, of course, but you're on the ballot in 2026. You have a little bit of time.
But listen to Karl Rove, who wrote in "The Wall Street Journal": "If this Democratic enthusiasm edge persists in 2026, many swing district House Republicans will be in danger in the midterms. It'll be even worse if Mr. Trump and Republicans repeat one of Democrats' principal mistakes in the Biden presidency, insisting a bad economic policy is actually fine. Unfortunately, for Republicans, with Mr. Trump's unrelenting emphasis on tariffs, he will own all that flows from jacking up levies on imports."
You're in a battleground district, as I know I don't need to remind you. How concerned are you about this lasting longer than 30, 60, 90 days?
[09:45:08]
MALLIOTAKIS: Look, I think people should see that this is the long game that he is trying to play here.
He is trying to fix what has been broken for decades. Nancy Pelosi warned about this in 1996. She said very clearly. And, at that time, you had a 35 percent trade deficit. It is now 10 -- 30 -- now it's -- $35 billion. Sorry. Now it's 10 times that.
And so they did nothing then. Politicians have always worried about the next election, instead of doing what was right to get this country on track. And so he's trying to fix something that will be prosperous for this country in the long run. As I mentioned, oil prices down, egg prices down, mortgage rates down.
This is only two months of him being in office. And he has already corrected a lot of wrongs.
URBAN: Yes. And there's going to be -- and, look, there's other things coming, right? There's going to be tax relief coming. There's continued deregulation coming.
It's a part of a broader plan. I think Americans will give the president -- they will give him some time. I don't know how much time, but they will give him some time.
TAPPER: Yes.
One thing -- I want to just bring this up because I have several books here, "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou, "The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan" by Jenny Nordberg, and "My Vanishing Country: A Memoir" by our own Bakari Sellers.
What do they have in common? They were all removed from the shelves at the U.S. Naval Academy Library, along with 400 other books, by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.
You have probably read this, I would...
(LAUGHTER)
URBAN: So, Jake, so I have got pretty strong feelings about this as a graduate of a United States military academy.
The singular focus of our military academy is to fight and win America's wars. If you want to be a poet or a lover, you can go to Amherst. You can go to Bowdoin. You can go to Bates. There are plenty of places.
You know what they should be reading at Naval Academy? Sun Tzu, "The Art of War." They should be reading "On Naval Strategy" by Alfred Mahan. They should be reading Jim Stavridis. We don't -- listen, Bakari's got a nice book. The students at the Naval Academy -- and, if you disagree, then the Chinese can just laugh as we study these things, as opposed to strategies.
SCHOLTEN: Listen, these are options, OK? So these men and women can die for our country...
URBAN: They can still read. They can still read.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Let her...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLTEN: They're removed from the shelves. They're removed from the shelves.
URBAN: I got a phone.
SCHOLTEN: Listen, these men and women can die from our country, but they can't decide what they're going to read?
URBAN: This is...
SCHOLTEN: And, also, let's be honest, right?
TAPPER: Yes.
SCHOLTEN: This is Trump 101. This is a distraction, plain and simple.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: But this is not a distraction. This is not a distraction.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLTEN: The markets are tanking. The markets are tanking.
TAPPER: Yes.
SCHOLTEN: Maya Angelou is not the problem. Elon Musk and Donald Trump are the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: You don't think the resistance in Afghanistan is relevant to American's fighters?
MALLIOTAKIS: Actually, I will argue that Maya Angelou is not the problem. I agree with you there. But it's communist China is the problem.
URBAN: Exactly.
MALLIOTAKIS: And I applaud President Trump, though, for focusing on improving...
SCHOLTEN: Maya Angelou is from communist China? Where -- how did we get there?
URBAN: No, no, no, no, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MALLIOTAKIS: No, but President Trump is focusing on building our Naval ships, on our submarines, which is what's needed to compete with communist...
SCHOLTEN: He's focused on dictating what people...
TAPPER: Jamal, any thoughts? This is Bakari Sellers' -- it's autographed. This one is autographed.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLTEN: These are college students. They can decide for themselves.
SIMMONS: Oh, that's right. It's autographed. It's autographed.
Listen...
(CROSSTALK)
MALLIOTAKIS: I don't have an issue with the books.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: We actually do want military officers who are thinking broadly and thinking about the world.
I went to school with a bunch of them. And when they go out into the world, they have to negotiate. Many of them are like diplomats when they land into a country. We don't...
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: No, no, no, Jamal, that's where you're wrong. That's where you're wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: No, because there's not a State Department because you guys are cutting USAID. And so if we're going to be a strong...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: ... nation, that's all we're going to have?
URBAN: Jamal, you're misreading it.
SIMMONS: What we're witnessing right now is an informational ethnic cleansing.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Only one guy here went to a military academy. That's all I'm saying, Jake.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLTEN: Leave Maya Angelou, just like you should have left Dr. Seuss.
TAPPER: All right.
All right, so how did she pull 100 percent cashmere over the eyes of so many of New York's elite? I will sit down with Anna Delvey. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:52:00]
TAPPER: New York's elite thought Anna Delvey was one of them. How did she manage to con banks and hotels and even friends?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was able to walk into a hotel without a credit card, convince them that she would pay them in the future, and she was granted access to a hotel room. She was able to walk into a bank and say, I promise you I have money. It's not here, but it's on this bank document, and I will give it to you down the road. Just give me a loan first, and they did.
TAPPER: Before her grift was up, Anna had conned banks, hustled lawyers, and stiffed restaurants and even friends to the tune of more than $275,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there's something about the absolutely bonkers, delusional self-confidence that it requires to pull off something like this. People wouldn't want to admit it, but they begrudgingly respect it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I sat down with Anna Delvey. You don't want to miss the latest episode of "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL." That airs tonight at 9:00 p.m.
What caught our eye in this week's funny pages? We will look at some of the standout editorial cartoons next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:56:44]
TAPPER: This week's Sunday funnies.
Mike Luckovich shows RFK Jr. as a listless lifeguard, saying: "I'm not concerned water causes drowning. I'm not convinced water causes drowning," as people struggle in the pool.
The cartoonist Banx has two people on a deserted island who've just learned there's a new tariff on bottles. By Nick Anderson, Cory Booker giving his 25-plus-hour filibuster this week, with Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, asleep in the crowd.
Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.
"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.
