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State of the Union

Interview With Fmr. Rep. Susan Wild (D-PA); Interview With Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN); Interview With Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA); Interview With National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired April 13, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:43]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Fight night. The U.S. economy falters.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have lots of fights going around the world.

TAPPER: And the president blinks.

TRUMP: They were getting yippy.

TAPPER: But as he makes another big tweak to his plan, which advisers have the president's ear on policy, and can Americans handle what's coming next? Top White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett is here next.

And fighting back. She made her name pushing for consumer protections, so what does this senator think of Trump taking on China...

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): I actually been a big supporter of tariffs for a long time.

TAPPER: ... and about the future of her own party?

WARREN: Every Democrat is ready to go.

TAPPER: Senator Elizabeth Warren joins me ahead.

Plus: alive and secure. The administration stonewalls after being ordered to bring back a wrongly deported man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Kilmar Abrego today?

TAPPER: Why won't they bring him home?

Our panel of political experts will weigh in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is refraining from looking at our 401(k)s.

This week, President Trump followed through on one of his longest-held and most deeply cherished beliefs, tariffs, insisting he would not pause them at all. And then he did for most of the tariffs, though the 145 percent tariff on China and the 10 on the rest of the world and tremendous uncertainty remain.

Adding to the confusion this weekend, we learned yesterday that some Chinese tech, like smartphones and laptops, are now exempted from the tariffs on China, which is, of course, a relief for many Americans and American tech companies, no doubt, but not quite consistent with the goal of bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to the United States.

Amidst all this economic pain, Trump arrived to warm applause last night in Miami, as he became the first sitting president of the United States in American history to attend a UFC fight, as some of the influencers on the right whose support momentarily seemed wobbly quickly seemed to demonstrate some firm and steady support for him.

The next challenge for President Trump and for administration officials like my next guest is to negotiate deals with more than 100 countries before even more tariffs are scheduled to go into effect in fewer than 90 days.

And one of the president's top advisers on the economy joins us right now, the White House National Economic Council director, Kevin Hassett.

Kevin, good to see you again.

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Hey, Jake. Good to...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: So, the White House says everything that happened over the last week-and-a-half went according to plan.

Over the course of just a few days, the global market lost trillions in stock value, regained some of it, but not all of it. The strength of the dollar right now is plunging. Consumer sentiment is worse than at any time during the Great Recession.

Is all of this part of the plan?

HASSETT: Right.

In fact, let's talk about what the trade plan is, because I think that it's very, very important for people to understand why we're doing what we're doing and how we got to the point where this is the right strategy.

The bottom line is that, in the United States, there are these things called 232s. You have heard people talk about it. It's a trade action where the government decides that there's something that's a serious threat to national security if we don't do something about it.

And so an example, just hypothetical, would be suppose in order to protect ourselves from an adversary, we had cannons, but we had to buy the cannonballs from them. Well, then you could put a 232 tariff on the cannonball, and then we'd have to make it here, and then that would make it so that, if we ever did have a situation where we were in conflict, that we'd have everything we need to protect ourselves.

And so the 232 things were always excluded. They weren't covered by the new actions that you discussed at the opening. And so it's not like -- so for example, semiconductors are the key, important part of a lot of defense equipment.

And there's going to be a semiconductor 232 that studies those things carefully and decides what has to be onshored order to protect America. And so it was always the case in annex two in the reciprocal act that semiconductors were going to not be covered by that action because there's a 232 action that was announced in the executive order that is going to address it.

And so I don't think that the -- anything really should be a surprise if people stopped and studied, but it seems like a lot of the coverage, people are in a rush to get the coverage out, and didn't really think through the logic of it, which is why we have a longer- form show with you here, right, Jake, where we can talk about what exactly is going on.

And then, finally, why is it that people think that there is an emergency about this? Well, it's because, especially over the last four years, the influence of China into every little corner of our country has just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger.

[09:05:11]

And so it actually is the case that it's a very uncomfortable amount of Chinese input in our actual weapons systems, Jake, in our actual weapons systems. And so President Trump thinks it's urgent that we address these matters.

TAPPER: OK, let's talk about the overall investment environment.

Nine days ago, President Trump announced to the whole world that those were the rules for doing business in America going forward, the tariffs were here to stay, his policies were not going to change. I'm just quoting him from his TRUTH Social messages.

And then, of course, on Wednesday, he issued this 90-day pause on most of the tariffs. And, in his own words, it was because the bond markets were getting queasy and yippy.

So here's what one small business owner told CNN about the impact that this whiplash is having on her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH WELLS, FOUNDER AND CEO, SARAH WELLS BAGS: A pause is better than no pause, but the uncertainty is still really chaotic for a small business like me. And now, even if I move out of China, how am I going to be certain that, if I place an order today, I won't find a new tariff tomorrow?

This up and down is just something, as a small business, I can't pivot to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's Sarah Wells from Sarah Wells Bags.

Well, what do you say to small business owners or even big business owners who say they're having difficulty making long-term business decisions because the country seems right now to be run by capricious whim?

HASSETT: Oh, I don't think at all it's run by capricious whim.

The way that I would think about it is that, in the previous administration, you can sort of say, if you're thinking about it in the football analogy, is that they were running out the clock. And what's going on now in the Trump administration is, across a wide array of policy areas, we're in a two-minute offense.

And the two-minute offense is pushing, as you have seen, the reconciliation bill through so that we get tax relief for American people, deregulation, and, of course, trade policy.

Now, on the trade policy, the whole point of the trade policy is to address the national emergency that we're too dependent on foreign products in the U.S., especially if we were at a time of conflict. And we're doing something about that.

And the reciprocal act was basically, guys, if you come to the table and negotiate us -- with us and treat us the same way we treat you, then we will get your rate really low. So, right now, 130 countries, 130 countries have responded, and we're negotiating with them, and they have got their rate down to 10 percent.

And so, really, it's kind of almost a two-world system. There's a process about China, and that's very, very nascent, if at all, and then the process for everybody else. So the process for everybody else is orderly, it's clear. People are coming to town with great, great offers. We have got Japan, Korea, India.

I was just talking to the foreign minister of India, and everything is moving forward very quickly. And so I guess that the bottom line is that the small business owner has experienced over the last few weeks the start of a process that's settling down really quite quickly. Again, 130 countries are at 10 percent now.

TAPPER: So let's talk about these 130 countries, because, as you know better than I do, it typically takes months, if not years, to negotiate trade deals.

Trump's signature trade deal from his first term, a great achievement, according to both Democrats and Republicans, NAFTA two, or the USMCA, that took 15 months to put together. How exactly are you and your team and the USTR team, how are you going to negotiate deals that actually deliver for the American people with more than 100 countries in less than three months?

HASSETT: Oh, yes, first of all, just a little bit of more clarification.

One of the things I like to ask people is, who's the chairman of the National Economic Council? And everybody thinks, oh, it's you, Kevin. Well, no, I'm the director. The chairman of the National Economic Council is President Trump.

And so what President Trump does is, he sets out a path for everybody, for Howard Lutnick, Scott Bessent, and for Jamieson, on how they would move forward on a particular policy matter. And then it's my job as director to make sure that the president's wishes are being fulfilled. I'm kind of there to help everybody succeed.

And I can tell you, I have been watching the people who are assigned to different assignments working really, really hard on getting trade deals forward over the last many weeks. And so one of the things that we were thinking about this week was that we had a few of these deals that are so close to baked that we could announce that we have a deal in principle.

You're right that getting the fine print out would maybe take a little longer. But we were thinking about announcing a deal in principle even this week. But then we were making so much progress so rapidly that the president decided to instead, instead of having one or two things right now, just go for the 10 percent pause.

And I think it was the right answer, given the massive amount of momentum that we have been seeing.

TAPPER: Yes, so let's talk about Lutnick and Jamieson Greer, because, last Sunday, the secretary of commerce, Howard Lutnick, was on a different show. He was talking about tariffs. And he was saying that these -- what these are going to do is, it's going to bring iPhone manufacturing to the United States.

[09:10:02]

Five days ago, U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer told senators -- quote -- "The president has been clear with me and with others that he does not intend to have exclusions and exemptions" unquote -- to these tariffs.

But now we know about these carve-outs for electronics imported to the U.S. that we talked about -- you talked about at the top, smartphones, computers, chips. It's a contradictory message.

HASSETT: No.

TAPPER: I mean, I understand that you're saying that this was the plan, but Lutnick -- it seems like nobody told Lutnick and Greer. HASSETT: No, I disagree with that.

I think that, absolutely, the characterization that I gave you at the top of the hour is the thing that everybody understood all along. But I can see that, when you're getting interviewed here, interviewed there, that somehow, like, not having the time, like you and I have now, just show the big picture, can make it so that people don't have a complete picture of what's going on.

TAPPER: But Greer was in Senate testimony.

HASSETT: But, again, think about it this way. No, but think about this way again, that there are these 232s, which are coming, that are announced in the reciprocal trade act.

And the things that are going to be in the 232s, like the cannonballs that we need so that we can have something to put in the cannon, those things are in progress. And while those are in progress, these, say, 10 percent on most of the world tariffs will not apply to those things.

And so then there's a question, an interpretation, what you say, OK, if you're not applying a semiconductor to those things, then what does that exactly mean? Because the U.S. doesn't really import a whole lot of just semiconductors. The semiconductors are in things.

And it's very, very natural for the Commerce Department -- I think the secretary of commerce, Howard Lutnick, is one of the best commerce secretaries I have ever worked with -- that he had his team go through and say, well, what does it mean to comply with this order? And that's what came out. I don't think that it was rushed or disorganized at all.

TAPPER: So these exemptions are only for items that will help our Defense Department needs? It's not iPhones in general. It's not semiconductors in general for commercial use?

HASSETT: There's a long list, which you could put a graphic up, of the things that are -- that we're planning 232 actions on because they're necessary for national security.

And those things that are on that long list are things that will be exempt until those 232s happen.

TAPPER: But you understand how some people might look at this and say, this doesn't really make sense in terms of the president's larger goal.

If President Trump and you and your team are all trying to reshore manufacturing, so that American manufacturing for phones and computers is happening here in the United States, along with all these great middle-class jobs that would go with it, that you're exempting those items, while at the same time the reshoring and manufacturing of the production of sneakers and T-shirts would happen here.

And that seems to be completely the opposite of the goal, right? HASSETT: That's just a perspective. If you think that we're going to

fail to deliver on the 232s, then your question would be one to wonder about.

But the 232s will be successful. We have already got 232 steel and aluminum, for example. And so that wouldn't be covered by the reciprocal part. And we have got 232 on autos. That's not covered by the reciprocal part. So those other things are going to happen. And it makes a great deal of sense.

So the one final thing I want to say is going back to, why are we doing this in the first place, there's the national security matter. But there's also what it means for the American worker.

And so when we look at, say, the small business person who's concerned that the price of their goods is going to be higher when they sell it to their customers, the thing that they also have to remember is that these policies, which the president successfully enacted in the first term, are going to increase the demand for labor, increase wages, up by almost $6,500 in the first three years of the Trump administration.

And so what it means is that even if you accept the naysayers' perspective on what might happen to the price of a cup of coffee, that the person walking into the coffee shop is going to have a lot more money. In the 15 years after China entered the WTO, real wages went down.

So wages went down by more than prices, as we thought these cheap goods were going to revolutionize America. In fact, it was the opposite. Welfare went down. We had Angus Deaton write a whole book about the deaths of despair that were related to this.

And so I think we're very optimistic about the fact that people are going to have more money in their pockets and that they're going to have a higher standard of living.

TAPPER: Well, right now, I mean, wealth has disappeared from the market. And, as you know, the fears of a global recession or a United States recession have increased even among business supporters, business leaders who support President Trump.

HASSETT: Well, what you're seeing is that the survey data is what we call the soft data.

The survey data has been showing that people are anxious about the changes a little bit. But the hard data has been really, really strong. As you know, in fact, if you looked at the latest jobs report, it was way, way above even what I expected.

And so what's happening is that people are racing to create jobs and to make stuff here in the U.S. If they make it in the U.S., they're not going to pay any tariff. And there's an explosion in the labor market that's really surprised me.

[09:15:00]

TAPPER: Right.

Well, but...

HASSETT: So you can't have a lot of new employment and then have, like, a recession. It's just, like, the opposite.

TAPPER: But you know the jobs data was from before the liberation day. I mean, it was before all these global tariffs.

HASSETT: Well, not all those. But, also, it was clear I think that the jobs data were in anticipation of something happening, something big. That would be only rational for firms to think that way.

TAPPER: All right, Kevin Hassett, thank you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.

HASSETT: Great to see you, Jake.

TAPPER: Senator Elizabeth Warren is calling for an investigation now into Trump's trade pause. Does she really think there was a big master plan? Does she have any evidence of wrongdoing? I will ask her next.

And why won't the Trump administration just bring back the man they wrongly deported to El Salvador by their own admission?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:08]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

Some Democratic officials are finding themselves walking something of a tight rope this week. Historically, many of them have backed targeted tariffs, but now they are slamming Trump's tariff approach.

My next guest is also calling for an investigation into Trump's abrupt reversal this week.

And joining me now is the top Democrat on the Senate Banking Committee, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

Senator, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.

You have called yourself a big supporter of tariffs. You have been a staunch critic of unfair trade practices from China. Less than a year ago, you praised President Biden's decision to slap tariffs on Chinese goods because he was, in your words -- quote -- "standing up for American workers" -- unquote.

So, specifically on China, can you detail what exactly you would be doing differently than President Trump?

WARREN: Well, let's keep in mind, tariffs can be an important tool in the toolbox when used in targeted ways. But, right now, what we have got is chaos and corruption. Donald Trump

has imposed a tariff on everyone everywhere, on all products. That's the 10 percent tariff. Of course, it was much higher earlier in the week, and now in this trade war with China that basically tries to shut down all trade.

And then, right out in plain view, as if the chaos weren't enough, he adds a nice layer of corruption for everyone to see. And that is a special, special deal for his CEO donor. And that is an exception to the China deal for iPhones.

Look, here's the problem. You can't get an economy strong and moving forward when it's loaded with chaos and corruption. Investors will not invest in the United States when Donald Trump is playing red light, green light with tariffs and saying, oh, and for my special donors, you get a special exception.

People make investment decisions that are years into the future if they're going to build a factory or they're going to rehab an old factory or buy a bunch of new tools. And, right now, with Donald Trump, nobody can figure out what the rules will be five days from now, much less five years from now.

That's a real hit to our economy and to developing more manufacturing here in the United States.

TAPPER: So, on Wednesday, the president announced a pause on most of the tariffs, a 90-day pause, except for the ones on China and except for the 10 percent across the board.

You called for the SEC to investigate whether President Trump intentionally manipulated the market or covered for insider trading. when he told Americans on TRUTH Social and in the Oval Office that they should go invest in the stock market before he announced that pause on the tariffs and the market soared afterwards.

Have you seen any actual evidence that insider trading was going on, instead of the just general advice he gave to -- for people to invest?

WARREN: Well, there are people who have looked at what happened to purchases and to calls just before he made that announcement that caused the stock market to skyrocket.

But let me be clear with the back-and-forth here. That's what investigations are for. And it's entirely appropriate to have an investigation to make sure that Donald Trump, Donald Trump's family, Donald Trump's inner circle didn't get advance information and trade on that information.

This is just kind of -- this is how the stock market works in order to make sure on a consistent basis that nobody's trading on inside information. And, by the way, Jake, the same thing should apply to Congress. And that is, we should have a rule that no one in Congress can trade on any -- trade in any individual stocks, no senator, no representative. I have had that bill for a long time. It's got a lot of support. In

fact, it's got some bipartisan support. I think now would be a good time to get it across the finish line and get our representatives out of the business of trading in individual stocks.

The American people should never have to wonder, when the president, when his Cabinet, when members of Congress are making a decision, whether it's for the good of the country or for the good of their own bank account.

TAPPER: Let me ask you a larger philosophical question because the Democratic Party, obviously not in a great place right now. Democrats seem divided on whether to try to allow room for the belief that tariffs, as you say, targeted tariffs, can be a good thing or whether to reject all of Trump's tariffs outright.

[09:25:10]

We saw this play out with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer making headlines when she visited the White House. She praised tariffs as a useful tool. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I understand the motivation behind the tariffs. And I can tell you, here's where President Trump and I do agree. We do need to make more stuff in America, more cars and chips, more steel and ships. We do need fair trade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is there room for that kind of nuanced discussion right now, or do you think what she said was a mistake?

WARREN: You know, I want to put it slightly differently.

And that is, it is a mistake to have the president of the United States out there just playing red light, green light, and saying, oh, this morning, I woke up and think the tariffs should be this big. Now I think they should be this big. Now I think they should be somewhere else.

And I got to say, saying, well, I will continue to make those decisions, and I'm going to hold off on these tariffs for 90 days, that doesn't put the economy in a better place. That doesn't put investors in a better place.

Congress has a job right now, and that is to step up and take this authority away from Donald Trump. He has proven how he will use it. But, remember, the statute that he's now using starts with a declaration of emergency. And in that same statute, Congress has the responsibility to decide, is it really an emergency or not? Are we really in an emergency with Belgium right now? Are we really in an emergency with South Korea?

Congress can say, no, there's no emergency. It's a resolution. And if we do that, it takes Donald Trump back to the trade as we had it before. And tariffs are then decided with Congress having an important say in it. And that's an important signal to the rest of the world.

Right now, it's a no curbs on Donald Trump, and that means chaos and corruption. We have an opportunity in Congress to vote that down and to say, no, we are going to use tariffs in a far more targeted way. We're sure not headed in the direction he wants to go.

All of the Democrats are ready to support that. But we got to get the Republicans or at least some of the Republicans on board to make that happen. They have got to decide, is their job just to suck up to Donald Trump, or is their job to stand up for the American people?

TAPPER: J.P. Morgan says the odds of a recession are now 50/50. Goldman Sachs puts the odds at 45 percent.

You were one of the loudest voices warning about the 2008 financial crisis. What do you think the likelihood of a recession is right now?

WARREN: Well, it's the economists, it's Wall Street are all telling us there's a problem, and the warning lights are flashing red.

You know, though, Jake, the part I remember from 2008 is what a recession means family by family, small business by small business. I watched back in 2008 when 10 million people lost their homes, when millions of people lost their jobs, when millions of people saw their savings wiped out.

I also watched when little tiny businesses got turned upside down and never had a chance to recover. Recessions are something that people like to talk about. They talk about the stock market. They talk about the big numbers that move. But the reality is, they are experienced one family, one small business at a time, and they are hard to recover from.

So I am worried that the continued chaos, the continued corruption, the fact that Donald Trump is just out there shooting wildly is pushing our economy in the wrong direction. And the people who are going to feel it most are not the wealthy traders. It's going to be the families and the small businesses who get wiped out.

TAPPER: So, given all the chaos, given the fact that the president's approval ratings are declining, given all the uncertainty in the market, why do you think the Democratic Party has such a low approval rating?

I would think this would be an opportunity for Democrats to rise and present an alternative, but it doesn't seem like that's happening. And, as you know, your party's approval ratings are historically low.

WARREN: You know, look, the way I look at this is that Donald Trump has created a lot of chaos in his first three months in Washington.

Remember, he started out, made the promise that on day one he would lower prices for American families. Those were his words, on day one. By the time he gets two months in and he's told that his tariff plans will increase costs, his answer was he couldn't care less. I think that the Democrats have really coalesced around the central message. Our job is to fight to lower those costs for American families.

[09:30:17]

Our job is to fight against a Republican Party that not only doesn't care about those families, but is working hard right now while all this chaos is going on to give more tax cuts to billionaires and billionaire corporations, and to cut access to Social Security, to cut veterans services, to cut health care for little babies and for seniors in nursing homes, to cut help for our public schools, so that class sizes get bigger, so that little kids with special needs can't get an aide, so that after-school programs are canceled.

Look, I think our secret, super-duper strategy is, just tell the truth about what's going on. The American people will see pretty clearly who's fighting for the billionaires and who's fighting for them.

TAPPER: Senator Elizabeth Warren from the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts, thanks for joining us today.

WARREN: Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: It has been four weeks since a Maryland father of three was mistakenly deported to El Salvador, by the Trump administration's own admission. So why is he not back in the United States yet?

My panel is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president was asked and answered this yesterday. He said he's not considering an extension or delay.

There will be a 90-day pause on the reciprocal tariffs as these negotiations are ongoing.

PETER NAVARRO, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICE TRADE AND MANUFACTURING ADVISER: This is not a negotiation.

This was done in a beautiful negotiation.

HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: The president is not going to back off. Negotiate is talking. No talking.

Donald Trump is the best negotiator that there is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

The White House says this week went exactly according to plan. Really?

OK, well, my panel joins me now, as we're seeing in a brand-new poll from our friends over at CBS that 58 percent of the American people polled oppose the new tariffs.

Let me jump right in with our members of Congress here.

Congressman, how do you feel about all this?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I feel good about it. China has been a terrible actor, and the blame clearly lies with -- on Congress. We have sold our country out time and time again. Both parties have.

This president realizes it. And that's why the tariffs are going into place or he's negotiating them in. And I -- when you look at places like China that have just ripped us off considerably, our intellectual property, billions upon billions of dollars, they will take products that are manufactured during the daytime in China and then at night they will put them under another label or even the same label and then sell them on Alibaba at 30 percent less.

So I think it's a great move.

TAPPER: There's no question China is a bad actor. Do you think that this is the right approach?

FMR. REP. SUSAN WILD (D-PA): It's chaos.

No, it's not the right approach, because I'm hearing from businesses and industries everywhere. You know what they like? They like predictability, strategic predictability. So tariffs are not, per se, bad. And, yes, China is a bad actor and we need to bring manufacturing back to the United States. Joe Biden was trying to do that for four years.

But guess what we have done now? We have just injected this whole state of chaos. We have disrupted supply chains even more than they already were disrupted. And so what that means is, manufacturers are going to hurt, car dealers are going to hurt.

And while there might be a long-term benefit to the United States, maybe, this chaos is not a good state of being.

TAPPER: So let me read you from an op-ed, Brad.

"Americans have long harshly judged leaders who seem, fairly or unfairly, to lack competence, whether it was President Joe Biden's troubled withdrawal from Afghanistan, President George W. Bush's botched response to Hurricane Katrina, or President Barack Obama's introduction of a vaunted health care Web site that immediately crashed."

That's from "The Washington Post" on Friday.

Do you have any concerns about this, about not necessarily the goal or even the means to the goal, but how these tariffs are being implemented?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do.

And I think that you saw there -- just later this week, you saw a lot more clarity heading into the goal, which is get tough on China, be open to negotiate with other countries. If President Trump will sell this as a fairness issue, Americans are going to be with him. That CBS poll indicates a majority support his goals on this.

Germany shouldn't be taxing our cars at 100 percent when we tax theirs at a quarter of that. It's a basic level of fairness. And Democrats, for their part, this is a big chance for them. Like Elizabeth Warren, who you had on the show earlier, she's been for tariffs her whole life, but she hates Donald Trump more than she likes the things she believes in.

It's a big chance. Joe Biden added tariffs to electric vehicles and solar panels and steel and aluminum. Democrats need to work with Donald Trump to crack down on China.

TAPPER: They are historically a tool of the left, tariffs.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

TAPPER: What do you think of how your party is handling this? I don't really sense a consistent message.

And I do sense a message that Brad kind of was able to neatly characterize as, they like tariffs. They just don't like it when Trump does it.

ALLISON: I have been thinking about this a lot because I think Democrats have been blamed of just anti-Donald Trump.

I mean, you started your answer with saying, you don't like the way he's going about it. And I think that's what Democrats are saying.

TODD: What I said is concern.

ALLISON: Concern. OK, well, I will say. I don't like the way he's going about it. I will take it to the next step,because there was no need to do the blanket tariffs the way he did.

[09:40:02]

There was no need for some people in his Cabinet to say one thing, some people in his Cabinet to say another thing. If you're the president of the free world, you should have an actual plan. You should be able to communicate that to the American people. Instead, what is being communicated to the American people is that, I actually don't care about your 401(k)s. I don't care about the working-class people.

And that is what Democrats are concerned about. I have said ever since he applied these tariffs, if he would have done it in a more strategic way, if he was clear that this was actually towards China -- but now we're in a war back and forth with -- we're still at the end point, but people feel -- our allies, our foreign allies feel very disrupted in this approach, as well as the American public.

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: But a united front -- if Democrats would join Donald Trump and a heavy united front to say, we demand fairness in tariffs in the way we treat trade, there's no telling what kind of good deal we could get from every country in the world.

ALLISON: Well, he needs to say that first.

TAPPER: Well, can I just say one thing that -- and I apologize ahead of time to the Democrats at the table, because I don't mean it aimed at you.

WILD: Yes, sure.

TAPPER: But one thing that seemed to symbolize kind of the weird place that Democrats are in is this photograph of Governor Gretchen Whitmer standing in the White House. Can we bring that pickup?

It's a picture of Gretchen Whitmer hiding her face while standing in the newly goldified Oval Office. She's there to make deals for Michigan and talk about tariffs that she supports in a targeted way, et cetera, et cetera. But a photographer comes in, all of a sudden, she's like trying to hide behind a notebook.

I mean, you didn't do this, so you don't need to justify it, Congresswoman, but what's going on with your party? Like, what is that?

WILD: Well, that begs the question of what she was doing there anyway.

And she -- it's been reported that she thought she was having a private meeting with the president, and then she called into this press conference.

TAPPER: Yes.

WILD: So you know what I would have done if that was me? I would have said, I'm not going in there. Or when the press came in or the cameras came in, I would have been out of there.

It was cringey. It's cringey.

TAPPER: It's still the same problem, though. You -- but it's -- but...

WILD: Well, but she doesn't -- remember the state that she represents...

TAPPER: Yes.

WILD: These tariffs for the automakers... TAPPER: Which -- a state that Donald Trump won.

WILD: The automakers are happy about the -- the American automakers are happy about these tariffs. So I understand why she went.

TAPPER: Yes.

WILD: But that was the ultimate cringey move right there. That was right out of "Veep."

TAPPER: Historically, the...

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Historically, the Republican Party has not been in favor of tariffs.

BURCHETT: That's correct.

But I think you're seeing a shift in that. But we have a short memory of tariffs. If you remember, I'm a motorcycle guy. Harley-Davidson was about to go under, and President Ronald Reagan boldly stepped up and said, 1000cc motorcycles and above that the Japanese are dumping on the American market cheaper than they can produce, we're going to stop that by putting an enormous...

TAPPER: But that's targeted. That's a targeted tariff.

WILD: Yes.

BURCHETT: Yes, but China -- but it's past that.

And if you think Congress is going to go along with any of that, because Congress is in bed with K Street lobbyists, let's just be honest.

TAPPER: Sure, in some cases literally.

(CROSSTALK)

BURCHETT: And literally, literally.

WILD: Oh.

(LAUGHTER)

BURCHETT: And that's why they are -- yes.

WILD: It's Sunday morning.

BURCHETT: Yes, well, sorry. All the good folks that are in church won't hear this.

WILD: Right.

(LAUGHTER) BURCHETT: But the truth is, it worked. It was targeted. And if you go to Harley-Davidson Museum today, and the man bun crowd that runs Harley-Davidson now has hidden that in the -- in the corner of their museum. But that was a strategic move.

TAPPER: Sure.

BURCHETT: And Ronald Reagan saved Harley-Davidson. As a matter of fact, Willie G. Davidson, the grandson of one of the founders, when they said Washington saved Harley-Davidson, they said, no, Ronald Reagan saved Harley-Davidson.

TAPPER: Ronald Reagan did.

I just want to ask you very quickly, Brad, about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland man that the administration admits they mistakenly deported to El Salvador. The Department of Justice told the district judge yesterday that they have found out that he is alive and secure in a prison there, but they're not doing anything that we can tell to bring him back.

Congressman Mike Lawler was here Thursday at a town hall, said the administration should follow what the judge is saying and bring him back. Why aren't they bringing him back?

TODD: I think they're going to wait, because there are other cases that are going to come after this. I think they will work the way -- all the way through the court system on this case, and I think they will follow up what the eventual Supreme Court decision is on it.

He's a person who's a citizen of El Salvador. The judge had ruled that he had a withholding of removal to El Salvador. The administration's admitted they sent him there inaccurately. And I think once this legal process plays out, that he will -- they will end up using leverage to get him back.

ALLISON: Yes, we talked about this the other day. I think this is a matter of due process. This man is not convicted of a crime, and this is -- these are trial balloon cases that the Trump administration is doing to push the limits on immigration.

What I will just say to the question about our party is that we cannot just be against Donald Trump. We have to be for something. So, if you're going to go to the White House, you need to be very clear of what you are actually fighting for and be able to push back on him on the things you do not like and confidently be able to say the things you do agree with him on.

My concern is that people are not sure on what they agree on and what they disagree on, except for just be against Donald Trump.

[09:45:01]

TAPPER: We're almost out of time. Last word for you, Congresswoman.

WILD: Well, I would agree with Ashley on that you need to be very specific.

And it's OK to agree with the president. I was -- I'm in a district, or I was in a district, representing it, where I often did bipartisan things, worked with Tim Burchett at times. Imagine that.

TAPPER: The devil, you say.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

WILD: But -- but I will say you have got to be very deliberate about it, and you have got to be very explicit about it, about what it is you agree with...

TAPPER: Yes.

WILD: ... and that it's not just a wholesale agreement with the president that has created chaos.

BURCHETT: I think that follows up on what Elon Musk and DOGE have said all along, that departments of government are not communicating.

And I would wish all my Jewish friends out there a very blessed Passover and my Christian friends a very happy Easter.

TAPPER: All right, we will leave it on that note.

Thanks, everybody, for being here.

A lot of people consider Washington, D.C., to be a political swamp. You heard from a couple of them just a second ago. How did D.C. get such a bad reputation? I will tell you one reason next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:33]

TAPPER: How did the D.C. swamp get its notorious reputation?

Well, one reason, notorious D.C. lobbyist Jack Abramoff, known as a wheeling, dealing D.C. operator, but in the early 2000s, we learned that Abramoff was involved in crime so extensive, it shocked not only those in Washington, D.C., but across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jack Abramoff is a chameleon. Sometimes, he's very religious and caring. Sometimes, he's an absolute crook.

TAPPER: Jack was able to alter or block bills for his clients by plying lawmakers with free meals, Super Bowl tickets, exotic vacations, and, of course, massive campaign contributions.

By the early 2000s, Jack Abramoff was Washington, D.C.'s most powerful man that you had never heard of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It is a brand-new episode and the season finale of my show "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL" tonight at 9:00 p.m. only on CNN.

Up next, the Sunday funnies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES AUSTIN JOHNSON, ACTOR: I also got rid of money last week, but instead of one temple, I did whole country.

(LAUGHTER)

JOHNSON: Maybe even the globe. Many people are even calling me the messiah because of the mess I made out of the economy.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:35]

TAPPER: Before we go: Late-night comedy tried to find some humor in this tumultuous week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": I have no idea what Donald Trump is doing with these tariffs, something, apparently, I have in common with Donald Trump.

SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": President Trump privately acknowledged that his tariffs could trigger a recession, but chose to issue a 90-day pause because he didn't want to cause a depression.

Too late, said therapists.

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": The tariffs he put on China have gone from 20 percent to 104 percent to now he says at least 145 percent. He's calling out numbers like he's working a bingo hopper or something.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us. And happy Passover to those who celebrate.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.