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State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX); Interview With U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent; Interview With Gov. Andy Beshear (D- KY). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 06, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Deadly waters. Devastating floods sweep through Central Texas, leaving dozens dead and more than 20 young girls missing from summer camp.

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): Nothing more than extraordinary devastation.

BASH: What's the latest on the rescue efforts? Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro is next.

And tariff man. With three days until President Trump's tariffs ramp back up, now he's changing the plan.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can't sit down with 200 countries.

BASH: What will the president do on Wednesday? Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent will join me.

Plus: done deal. Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is now the law of the land.

TRUMP: There could be no better birthday present for Americans.

BASH: As states scramble to deal with the fallout, how will a Democratic governor confront what he calls devastating cuts? Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear is ahead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is heartbroken.

We begin this morning in Texas, where the situation looks increasingly dire after a torrential rainfall Friday that rapidly swelled rivers and in moments became a fast flood that swept away dozens of people, including more than 20 girls at summer camp. This morning, more than 50 people are confirmed dead. Local officials

say they are still focused on search-and-rescue, as President Trump sends his homeland security secretary and additional resources to the area.

Here with me now is Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro, whose district is under a disaster declaration.

Thank you so much for being here. We are just so sorry for what is happening in and around your district.

What is the situation like in the flood zone right now?

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Well, it's absolutely devastating.

And San Antonio is about an hour (AUDIO GAP) but Bexar County is part of that disaster declaration. There are about 15 counties that are. And San Antonio also experienced flash floods in June that took the lives of about 13 people.

So, right now, there are 51 people, it looks like, who have been declared deceased and still 27 young girls who are missing from Camp Mystic. And, most of all, I think people are coming together. They're rallying to support the community and the families who have lost loved ones.

It's been very heartening, I know, for everyone to see all the donations and the support that's come in, but just a complete tragedy.

BASH: I mean, beyond.

You mentioned the more than 20 girls still unaccounted for at Camp Mystic. It's a summer camp along the Guadalupe River and in nearby Kerr County. It was flooded after the river rose more than 20 feet in just two hours overnight.

What can you tell us about the search for those girls specifically, Congressman?

CASTRO: Well, I mean, the effort is intense. The state has sent incredible resources. The local governments from different places, Austin, San Antonio, many others have surged first responders, just everything that we possibly can to help.

I think, obviously, the priority is on making sure that those girls are found and are saved and anybody else who may be missing at this point. And then I think, after that, we have to figure out in the future how we make sure that it doesn't happen again.

BASH: And there is more rain in the forecast to come. How will that affect the rescue efforts?

CASTRO: Obviously, it does make it tougher if those rains start up again, especially if they're flash floods or just torrential rains.

As I mentioned, we had the same -- a similar issue in San Antonio with flash flooding a few weeks ago. And there were 13 people in a matter of hours whose lives were taken. And so it does make it tougher if that water starts to rise again.

[09:05:00]

But I know that there are hundreds and hundreds of folks out there who are searching. And, hopefully, their efforts will bear fruit.

BASH: What questions do you have for federal officials who are involved in this search-and-rescue and involved in predicting and preventing this kind of tragedy?

CASTRO: Well, look, we have to make sure that the resources are there to save people's lives, to prevent these kinds of tragedies, to make sure that the National Weather Service has all of the personnel and the resources that it needs to make the predictions and do the analysis that it needs to do to help local communities be prepared for things like this.

And then, also, I think the state government should take a look at (AUDIO GAP) surplus now (AUDIO GAP) fund, actually, that's got tens of billions of dollars at this point. I think the governor and state government should look at what they can do in terms of longer-term planning to be helpful in helping to prevent this kind of flooding, to the extent that is possible.

Again, this all happened very fast. You're obviously dealing with a natural body of water. And so -- but there are things that you can do to mitigate the chances that this happens again in the future.

BASH: Yes, I mean, that is one of the key questions. As you said, you want to be prepared and you want government resources to be in place so that there is preparation. But when something happens this quickly, the question is whether preparation is even possible.

And, on that note, how much do you think the changing climate is part of what we are seeing go on here, not just what we're seeing in the pictures that we're showing on the screen, but even the flood that you talked about in San Antonio in June?

CASTRO: I think climate change is obviously a part of it. These floods are happening more often in more parts of the country and really all over the world. And so we have to face that reality and be better prepared for it and combat it.

BASH: And just talking about the federal government and even the local government, two Texas National Weather Service offices involved in forecasting and warning about flooding on the Guadalupe River are missing some key staff members.

A director of the NWS union told CNN that the Austin, San Antonio, office is missing a warning coordination meteorologist due to the Trump administration's buyouts. Do you have any indication whether those or other cuts helped play a role in the fact that the people in the flood zone were not prepared and certainly not evacuated?

CASTRO: No, I can't say that conclusively.

But I do think that it should be (AUDIO GAP). And I don't think it's helpful to have missing key personnel from the National Weather Service not in place to help prevent these tragedies. And when I say that we ought to do everything possible to help prevent a tragedy like this again, that's part of what I mean.

That's why there's an incredible value to the National Weather Service is because, on most days, obviously, you're not going to have a tragedy like this, but when you have flash flooding, there's a risk that you won't have the personnel to make that -- do that analysis, do the predictions in the best way. And it could lead to tragedy.

So I don't want to sit here and say conclusively that that was the case, but I do think that it should be investigated. And having -- not having enough personnel is never helpful.

BASH: Congressman Castro, thank you so much for being here. And, again, we're so sorry for the tragedy that is still ongoing in and around your district.

CASTRO: Good to be with you.

BASH: And we are following all the latest out of the flooding in Texas. We will bring you every update we get as we get them up next.

Up next: It is three days until President Trump's tariff deadline, so what is his plan? The Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, will be here live next.

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[09:13:46]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

President Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is now law. And as he hits the road to sell Americans on that new law, the president is also facing another deadline this week. More than 100 countries have only three more days to meet the deadline he set to make tariff deals.

Here with me now to talk about all of that is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent.

Thank you so much for coming in. I appreciate it.

Let's start with the new law and who it helps. The Tax Policy Center says the majority of the tax benefits will go to Americans making $217,000 or more a year. The Yale Budget Lab says the richest Americans will see their income rise by nearly 2 percent. The lowest- earning Americans will see their income drop by 3 percent when factoring in cuts to Medicaid and food stamps.

You argue that the benefits will really be aimed at the middle class. How does that square?

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, first, let's have a look at the Yale Budget Lab, because I was looking at their findings.

And, this week, I actually went on their Web site. They're all ex- Biden officials, so I think we can discount everything they say. I'd encourage all your viewers to look at the composition of both the board and the staff.

[09:15:02]

And it's just not right, that what we have here is a middle-class and working-class bill, that we -- we are going to see wages accelerate and we are going to see, just as we saw with President Trump's first tax bill, we are making permanent these tax cuts.

And what happened in 2017-2018 was, the highest wage earners went from paying 37 percent of all taxes to 45 percent. So that's going to be permanent now. So, permanently, the highest 10 percent will pay a higher percent of the taxes.

BASH: I should say that, taking the Yale Budget Lab aside, there are Republican senators who are worried about affordability and who this all is going to affect.

BESSENT: Look, I think affordability, safety and growth are the three things this bill is going to generate.

BASH: One of the tax cuts that are in here are for -- and the president talks about them a lot -- are on tips and overtime. Those are temporary. Why not make those permanent? They're only 2025 to 2028.

BESSENT: This is a big part of President Trump's agenda. So I -- we have what I call parallel prosperity here, that Wall Street has done great. Now it's time for working Americans to do great.

And this is President Trump's agenda, so we have got it in for the duration of his term, and we will see if the next administration wants to do that.

BASH: And just talking about the affordability, how is making cuts on Medicaid programs...

BESSENT: Well...

BASH: ... how does that -- and how it affects the people who are at the lowest ranking when it comes to income, how does that help with the affordability crisis in America?

BESSENT: Well, first of all, affordability and saving Medicaid, let's separate those.

And only in D.C., only in D.C. is a 20 percent hike over 10 years a cut. So, Medicaid funding will go up 20 percent over the next 10 years. The people who Medicaid were designed for, the pregnant women, the disabled and families with children under 14, will be refocused.

The able-bodied Americans are not vulnerable Americans. So, a work requirement or a community service requirement, that's very popular with the public, and many state programs have that now.

BASH: It might be popular, but it's not with the president promised. The president promised that there would not be changes to Medicaid benefits.

And putting a work requirement is, by definition, a change to benefits.

BESSENT: No, there are no change in benefits. There's a change in requirements to get the benefits.

And what we are doing, we are bringing back manufacturing jobs. We are bringing back working-class jobs. By securing the border, we have seen, already seen working class wages move up. So we are creating jobs. People can get off Medicaid and get a job that has good health care benefits, Dana.

BASH: In theory, that works, but I'm sure you have seen and heard a lot of the concern, including and especially from Republicans who are the most vocal in Congress, about the fact that those work requirements are going to be very cumbersome to actually prove, and it will inevitably force the people who need that Medicaid coverage off the rolls.

BESSENT: Well, first of all, it's -- the Republicans are not the most vocal on this.

It is a group of Democrats who unfortunately seem to think that poor people are stupid. I don't think poor people are stupid. I think they have agency. And I think to have them register twice a year for these benefits, that -- is not a burden.

But these people who want to infantilize the poor and those who need these Medicaid benefits are alarmists.

BASH: Yes, but my impression of the Republican Party is that, historically, you wanted to cut through the red tape and not create more red tape.

But I do want to move on, because...

BESSENT: Well, no, no, no, but the -- we have also wanted to put in work requirements, which somehow was very popular under Bill Clinton, was popular under President Obama.

And this Democratic Party blew out the deficit in 2020, and they never want to bring it back. But work requirements even poll well with the median Democratic voter, maybe not the fringe.

BASH: Let's talk about tariffs.

President Trump gave countries a 90-day pause on the sweeping tariffs he put in place back in April. That pause ends in three days. What happens on Wednesday?

[09:20:02] BESSENT: We will see. I'm not going to give away the playbook, because we're going to be very busy over the next 72 hours.

We are going to -- President Trump's going to be sending letters to some of our trading partners, saying that, if you don't move things along, then, on August 1, you will boomerang back to your April 2 tariff level. So I think we're going to see a lot of deals very quickly.

And, Dana, we're going to send out probably 100 letters to small countries where we don't have very much trade. And most of those are already at the baseline 10 percent.

BASH: But you said August 1. You mean -- do you mean -- what's going to happen in August?

BESSENT: So countries will get a letter saying that, if we have not reached an agreement, then you will go back to the April 2 level.

BASH: Starting when, on August 1?

BESSENT: August -- on August 1.

BASH: OK.

So there's basically a new deadline?

BESSENT: It's not a new deadline. We are saying this is when it's happening. If you want to speed things up, have at it. If you want to go back to the old rate, that's your choice.

BASH: When you say that there's going to be a lot happening over the next few days and you don't want to give me the playbook, is there a playbook?

BESSENT: Sure.

The playbook is to apply maximum pressure. We saw that the E.U. was very slow in coming to the table. Three weeks ago, on a Friday morning, President Trump threatened 50 percent tariffs, and, within a few hours, five of the European national leaders had called him. And Ursula von der Leyen, the head of the E.U., was on the phone.

And the E.U. is making very good progress. They were off to a slow start.

BASH: The president said some countries could end up with tariffs as high as 70 percent. Which countries is he talking about?

BESSENT: I think you would go back and look at the April 2 levels. But, again, none of those are major trading partners. There are 18 important trading relationships that account for 95 percent of our deficit. And those are the ones we're concentrating on.

BASH: Are you close to any deals before Wednesday? I know you're talking now about August 1, but where are you on any of these deals? BESSENT: We are close to several deals. As always, there's a lot of

foot-dragging on the other side. And so I would expect to see several big announcements over the next couple of days.

BASH: Can you name names?

BESSENT: I'm not going to name names because I don't want to let them off the hook.

BASH: OK.

When you talk about these letters and you talk about kind of the 90 deals in 90 days, or at least the president did back in April, so far, we have seen three, and they're not concrete deals, the way that we're used to seeing trade deals. They're frameworks.

The president has a reputation, self-described dealmaker, so why haven't we seen the kind of deals that he promised in the last 90 days?

BESSENT: Again, he didn't promise this.

And when we send out the 100 letters to these countries, that will set their tariff rate. So we're going to have 100 done in the next few days. And...

BASH: But that's not a deal. That's a threat.

BESSENT: No, that's the level. That's the deal. If you want to trade with the United States, this is the...

BASH: But that's not a negotiation. That's just a declaration.

BESSENT: Well, many of these countries -- many of these countries never even contacted us.

So, that's the thing about being the deficit country, Dana, is, when you are the deficit country, you have the leverage. These are surplus countries that they have exported more to us than we export to them. So we have the leverage in this situation.

BASH: You know, when I talk to small business owners, both doing interviews with them and just in and around in my life interacting with them, I have not met one who has not said it's the uncertainty with the tariffs that is making it so hard for them to do business, because they're kind of frozen in place.

What do you say to those business owners?

BESSENT: Well, I'd say two things, is, the other thing they would probably have been telling you is, it was the uncertainty around taxes.

So, with the One Big Beautiful Bill, they now have great certainty on taxes.

BASH: No, they have said tariffs.

BESSENT: No, no, but let me finish.

When I'm out talking to businesses, they want trade and taxes. So we have certainty on taxes now. All businesses know that they will be getting 100 percent expensing for new plant and equipment. On tariffs, again, it is the 18 important trading relationships. And we're moving through those.

BASH: I want to ask you about the Fed and the Fed chair. Your name has been floated as a potential choice to replace Jay Powell. You aren't ruling that out.

[09:25:01]

If President Trump told you to cut interest rates as Fed chair, would you do it?

BESSENT: I think that the Fed chair does not cut interest rates. It is a committee.

So it's up to the Open Market Committee and the voting members to cut rates.

BASH: That's not how the president sees it.

BESSENT: Again, the president is probably the most economically sophisticated president we have had in 100 years, maybe ever. He has a view on rates, and he makes them known, just like Senator Warren makes hers known.

BASH: Before I let you go, it's not a big secret that you had your differences with Elon Musk when he was working in the administration. He announced this weekend that he is starting a new political party. Does that worry the Trump administration?

BESSENT: Look, the principles of DOGE were very popular. I think, if you looked at the polling, Elon was not.

So, I believe that the boards of directors at his various companies wanted him to come back and run those companies, which he is better at than anyone. So I imagine that those board of directors did not like this announcement yesterday and will be encouraging him to focus on his business activities, not his political activities.

BASH: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I appreciate your time.

BESSENT: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

And my next guest disagrees with the secretary. He says that the effects of President Trump's spending cuts will be devastating on his state.

Kentucky Governor and potential Democratic presidential candidate Andy Beshear joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:56]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

The bill that President Trump just signed into law has states across the U.S. grappling with what it means for them.

My next guest is a Democratic governor of a red state. Here with me now is Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky.

Thank you so much for being here.

We do have a lot to get to, but I do want to start with the devastating news that we're seeing in Texas, because, just a few years ago, you had more than 40 people die in your state with the worst floods in Kentucky history. What's your message to officials and residents dealing with this in Texas right now?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Well, to the people of Texas, Kentucky loves you. We know what you're going through.

In July of 2022, we lost 45 Kentuckians, each one a child of God, to devastating flooding. What these families are going through right now is just pure hell. And what they need is the entire country to wrap their arms around them, to show them just pure love.

And to everyone on the ground, we need your help in staying out of flooded areas so that first responders can get in. I know they're still searching for a lot of people. So we need to make sure that those in the boats and those in the helicopters have an unobstructed way to get to these places.

And then think about what these families are going to need in the coming weeks, months and years and do everything you can to be there for them. We went through it in July of 2022. We went through it in February and in April of this year. So our heart really goes out to Texas.

BASH: Yes, absolutely.

Governor, I do want to turn to the giant bill President Trump signed into law, what it would mean for Kentucky. One in four Kentuckians are on Medicaid, one in 10 on food stamps. How many will lose their benefits because of this law? And what, as governor, can you do to help?

BESHEAR: Well, this law is devastating. It's the single worst piece of legislation I have seen in my lifetime.

And it is a congressional Republican and presidential attack on rural America. In my state alone, 200,000 people are going to lose their coverage. Those are 200,000 Kentuckians that deserve to see a doctor when they're sick; 20,000 health care workers are going to lose their jobs. And we have got up to 35 rural hospitals -- they're typically the second biggest employer in their communities -- that may close their doors.

And what that means is, our economy takes a huge hit. And then, whether you have private insurance or Medicaid, if you live in rural America, you have to drive hours just to see the doctor that used to be in your community. It is awful. And that is before we even talk about the cuts to SNAP, which means that seniors and children will go hungry at night and wake up hungry in the morning.

I cannot believe that Congress was willing to pass this. I mean, it's awful.

BASH: They did add about $50 billion for rural hospitals. You don't think that's going to help?

BESHEAR: No.

Based on the massive cuts that are here, based on the fact that a rural hospital may have 40 percent or 50 percent of their revenue coming from Medicaid, this will not help to keep those doors open. And so what you're going to first see are rural hospitals cutting specialties. You may have to drive several hours just to give birth in many parts of this country.

And just think about how the economic hit to these communities go. You lose 200 jobs from doctors and nurses and orderlies, and all of a sudden the coffee shop does worse, the bank doesn't have as many folks coming in. I mean, this is going to hit rural America right in the face.

BASH: Governor, this law adds work requirements for Medicaid on those who are able-bodied adults.

Kentucky Republican Congressman Hal Rogers says adding these requirements -- quote -- "protects the longevity of Medicaid benefits for our most vulnerable population and adds integrity and strength to Medicaid and SNAP assistance."

[09:35:06]

One of the first acts of -- as governor, yours, was to end Medicaid work requirements in Kentucky. Why shouldn't people who can work, work?

BESHEAR: Well, we want everybody that can work to work.

And, right now in Kentucky, we have the most people working, the most jobs filled and the largest work force in our history. And that is with our current Medicaid structure. That's because these work requirements really aren't about getting people back to work. They are about increasing the paperwork on everybody.

That's the senior, because 70 percent of our long-term care costs are covered by Medicaid. And that's children as well, with half of Kentucky's kids covered by Medicaid. These work requirements aren't just for specific people. Everybody else has to check all the boxes saying they're not able-bodied.

And what happens is, when somebody misses that one box, they are kicked off for six months or more...

BASH: Governor...

BESHEAR: ... meaning families have to take that parent or grandparent in. It means they have to cover all those other costs.

All this is, is more red tape meant to kick people who should get Medicaid off of Medicaid.

BASH: Governor, I just asked that very question to the treasury secretary about the increase in red tape. And his response is, Democrats think poor people are stupid.

BESHEAR: It's amazing.

Listen, I know a lot of people on Medicaid. These are our parents with special needs children that could have never covered it otherwise. These are busy people all working two jobs already to support that child. And now, if they miss a deadline, if they miss checking a box, look at what happens.

I mean, you can lie all you want about what's in this bill. But the numbers are the numbers. The predictions by the Congressional Budget Office are there. It's going to devastate rural health care, all while adding trillions of dollars to our national debt. And it's going to upend every state budget across the country.

You know what's sad is that, while Democratic governors are speaking out, we're not speaking out because we're Democrats. We're speaking out because we're supposed to be the best governors of our states that we can be. All these Republican governors that aren't saying a thing, where their rural hospitals are going to close, where they're going to see massive layoffs and people lose their coverage, that's pretty sad.

Our job is to stand up for and represent our people. And I wish people would get back to that.

BASH: Governor, you have committed to serving out your term as governor, which is slated to end December 2027. Your name frequently comes up as a contender for the 2028 Democratic primary for president.

You said you will think about it after next year. What will make you decide that that's going to be a yes, you will run for president?

BESHEAR: So my primary obligation and what I'm putting all my energy towards is to be the best governor of Kentucky that I can be.

Next year, I will also be the head of the Democratic Governors Association. And I think, especially in these rural states where Republican governors have not spoken up whatsoever to stop this devastating bill, we're going to have strong candidates. We're going to win a lot of elections. And, hopefully, that paragraph about who's speculated in '28 gets bigger because we have brought in more leaders. If you had asked me this question a couple years ago, I would have

said no. My family's been through a lot. But I do not want to leave a broken country to my kids or anyone else's. So what I think is most important for 2028 is a candidate that can heal this country, that can bring people back together.

So, when I sit down, I'm going to think about whether I'm that candidate or whether someone else is that candidate. I'm going to make sure we're putting the country first, because my kids deserve to grow up in a country where they don't have to turn on the news every morning, even when they're on vacation, and say, what the heck happened last night?

BASH: Governor, thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

BESHEAR: Thanks for having me.

BASH: And Elon Musk says he's really doing it, he's starting a third political party. How's that going to work?

And coming up: The tragedy in Texas, what we're learning about some of the victims.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:33]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

My panel is here now.

We got to start with the big news from Elon Musk. Here's what he said -- quote -- "When it comes to bankrupting our country and waste -- with waste and graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy. Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom."

Scott Jennings?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's harder than it looks to start a political party. And we will see where they go with it.

My humble advice to Elon, who I admire very much actually, is that you may be dividing the forces of people who want to save Western civilization, to the benefit of the people who don't. And so, to the extent that this effort would divide conservatives and Republicans against each other, that wouldn't be helpful, because it would leave the country to people who want unfettered immigration, who don't share your fiscal views and so on and so forth.

We will see where it goes. I sort of hope everybody puts the band back together the way they had it back in 2024, because when everybody was working together, things worked quite well.

BASH: Well...

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm just curious. If they're on the side of Western civilization, what's the other civilization that people want?

JENNINGS: Not Western civilization.

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS: OK, very interesting.

JENNINGS: Terrible. Not American values. Not Western civilization.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: I think there are lots of civilizations all over the world, and Western civilization is one of them.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: We're all very excited about seeing civilizations exist, Western and otherwise.

[09:45:00]

JENNINGS: OK. So you're against Western civilization.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: I didn't say that at all. I'm just not against the other civilizations.

JENNINGS: The left is not for Western civilization.

SIMMONS: I'm just not against the other civilizations.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: Here's what -- as I think about this. It's very hard to start a political party. It is also, though, they're starting at it, if they're going to do this, it's the right way, which is you start below the presidential level.

What's happened before is, people start presidential parties at a presidential campaign, and the question is, can you dig down deep? Now, is Elon Musk going to do the right work? Is he going to hire the right people? Who's he going to hire? I guess a bunch of consultants are going to make him a lot of money, try to help him do this if he is serious about it.

But if he wants to be ready for both '26 and '28, now's the time for him to get started and build something. A lot of people in America do want to see something different. Democrats and Republicans, they want to see people do something that's going to actually benefit more people, not cut Medicaid that's going to ruin rural hospitals or do things like that. JENNINGS: Not cutting.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: They want to see something that's going to actually work for the American people.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would also say to Elon, we do live in a democracy, and people do have the opportunity to make their voices heard.

And I actually think, yes, I think there is frustration across the board with our political system, no question about that, but I don't know that we want a billionaire who is frustrated about the way things have transpired over the last six months to be using his money and influence to start a political party. I don't actually think that that is -- that's not a way, a better way to represent working people across this country.

And I think letting people who have that kind of money wield that kind of influence over our political system, to me, that actually doesn't get to the end goal that he claims he wants to get to.

BASH: There was a billionaire who started a political party who did pretty well for a third-party candidate, and that is Ross Perot. And it was on the same issues, primarily the deficit.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BASH: I mean, Elon Musk is not saying, I want to start a third party to be in the middle. That's not his point of view.

He's been very upset about this new law, saying that it adds to the debt and deficit, and that's what spurring that.

SINGLETON: Well, remember what Ross Perot's impact was, that George H.W. Bush didn't win, and then many pointed out that it was Ross Perot's engagement that partially led to that.

Look, I don't agree with this. I think Elon Musk, to Scott's point, is absolutely going to take Republican, conservative-leaning, conservative-adjacent voters away from Republicans, who really need those voters next midterms to be viable, particularly in close districts.

I think the board of directors, Tesla investors -- I own Tesla stocks. I'd like to see him focus on continuing to grow and expand those companies, not getting engaged in politics in this way, particularly when it's Republicans that really came to Elon Musk's aid and rescue when Democrats were burning Teslas, not buying Teslas. It was Republican voters who stood with him.

Why divide the party in this way? I don't agree with it and would advise against it.

JENNINGS: Yes, also, this idea of having an independent political movement in this country, we have one. It's called Donald Trump., I mean, he is the head of the Republican Party, but in many ways he's really our first independent president.

I mean, he's not...

BASH: Tell that to the Republican.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: He is not -- but he has changed the orthodoxy of one major political party, and he sets the agenda of the other one.

He is an independent political force. And, yes, he sets atop at one major party. But a lot of people came to him who had never voted or rarely voted who don't consider themselves to be Republicans or Democrats. They just consider themselves to be commonsense-type folks. They were looking for something different. Trump was the answer to that.

BASH: Constitutionally, he's going to exit the stage.

BEDINGFIELD: But I would argue, though, that's an indictment of the Republican Party and Republican elected officials, who say repeatedly that they disagree with things that Donald Trump is trying to do, and then ultimately at the one-yard line cave and wind up voting for his agenda, because they have decided that it's more important to share in the political popularity of the Trump coattails than it is to stand up for the things they believe in.

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: That does generate a sense of frustration and a sense of cynicism among voters. And I think that is exactly why there's potentially this opening for this, what Trump -- Musk -- excuse me -- what Musk is suggesting, because people do feel...

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: Because people feel like their elected officials don't actually stand up and represent their interests, and that creates a real cynicism.

SINGLETON: But, in terms of electoral politics, I think the point Scott is trying to make, when you look at the makeup of the Republican Party today compared to, hell, when I was involved in engagement, this is a very different looking party, way more diverse, a lot of younger people.

There is ideological, disparate ideas in terms of what conservatism should look like moving forward, whether that's a little bit of nationalism, a little bit of populism. That certainly did not exist before. The old guard of the Republican Party and the establishment leaders, that's a bygone era. This is a new Republican Party.

It's way more independent, way more diverse, way more younger.

SIMMONS: I mean, we should reflect that also Barack Obama was considered kind of an independent president...

SINGLETON: Yes.

SIMMONS: ... when he ran in 2008. He got a lot of people who didn't normally participate to show up and participate. He wooed a lot of voters. Some of those voters ended up being Trump voters at some point.

JENNINGS: And he beat the establishment, yes.

SIMMONS: So the question -- he beat the establishment of the Democratic Party.

So the question is, there is a cohort of voters that seem to be moving around looking for somebody who's going to upset the apple cart and do something different.

[09:50:01]

SINGLETON: Yes.

SIMMONS: The Democrats have got to have an agenda that is also going to upset the apple cart, it's going to go at the institutions and make the institutions be responsive to the people.

I think we have got a Democratic Party that's making a very clear case about what's wrong with Trumpism. We do not yet have a Democratic Party making a very clear case about what the Democrats want to do that's going to make life different for working-class people in the country.

JENNINGS: Well, you have it. Mamdani. That's your answer.

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS: That's your answer. That's your answer.

JENNINGS: African-American leader Mamdani in New York City.

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS: That's your answer. Don't play games.

JENNINGS: That's your new guy.

SIMMONS: Don't play games.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

The latest from Texas and a glimpse of the devastating loss in this flooding. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:55:23]

BASH: We want to show you some of the people we lost in the Texas flooding.

Two sisters, 13-year-old Blair Harber, who was a gifted student, and her 11-year-old sister, Brooke, who lit up every room she was in, according to her father. Their grandparents are still missing.

Local high school soccer coach Reece Zunker and his wife, Paula, were also killed. The soccer team called Reece a role model. The Zunkers' two children are unaccounted for.

And here's 9-year-old Janie Hunt, a camper at Camp Mystic who passed away, according to her mother.

It's heartbreaking, all heartbreaking. May Janie's memory and that of all of those who have perished be a blessing.

Thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us. The news continues next.