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State of the Union

Interview With U.S. Ambassador to NATO Matthew Whitaker; Interview With Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 10, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:41]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Arctic summit. President Trump announces a historic meeting with Vladimir Putin on American soil.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Putin, I believe, wants to see peace, and Zelenskyy wants to see peace.

BASH: But as Russia's military unleashes new attacks, can Putin be trusted to make a deal?

U.S. Ambassador to NATO Matthew Whitaker joins me live.

And hitting the road. As Democrats try to find their footing...

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): In many ways, the Democratic Party has turned its back on what was its space.

BASH: ... where should the party go from here? I traveled to deep red West Virginia for an exclusive interview with Senator Bernie Sanders.

Plus: Texas standoff. Lone Star Republicans threaten new arrests and removals, as Democrats flee in every districting fight.

STATE REP. GENE WU (D-TX): We will not be broken by these antics.

BASH: As more red and blue states jump in, who has the upper hand? My panel breaks it down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is praying for peace.

We begin this week on the verge of a make-or-break week for President Trump's foreign policy. He is set to welcome Russian President Vladimir Putin to the United States this Friday for a summit in Alaska. It's the first time Putin will be on American soil in a decade. The main focus of the meeting, of course, will be ending Putin's war

in Ukraine. But Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is already pushing back, saying no deal can be made without Ukraine's agreement and rejecting President Trump's suggestion that Ukraine will cede territory to get Russia to a cease-fire.

Meanwhile, in the Middle East, Israel's Security Cabinet approved a plan for a military takeover of Gaza City, despite pushback from the country's own top military leaders.

But we start on this high-stakes Trump-Putin meeting, which is now just days away.

Here with me now is the United States ambassador to NATO, Matthew Whitaker.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being here.

First, I want to just state the obvious, which is that there is a key player currently not slated to be in Alaska, and that is the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Is it possible he will attend?

MATTHEW WHITAKER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Yes, I certainly think it's possible.

And it's good to be with you this morning.

Certainly, there can't be a deal that everybody that's involved in it doesn't agree to. And, I mean, obviously, it's a high priority to get this war to end. The carnage and the dying is terrible. I think this direct engagement by President Trump obviously is leading us closer to a peace.

The two sides have been communicating. They have exchanged prisoners. They have exchanged bodies of the fallen. But this -- if we can get a deal done on terms that both sides agree, that will save thousands of lives. And, ultimately, I think that's worth at least seeing if there's a chance to get that done.

BASH: You say it is possible that President Zelenskyy joins President Putin and Trump in Alaska. Where do those discussions stand?

WHITAKER: Well, obviously, the decision is going to be made by President Trump. He agreed to meet with President Putin in Alaska on Friday.

And if he thinks that that is the best scenario to invite Zelenskyy, then he will do that. And, again, we have -- today's Sunday. The meeting's happening on Friday. There's time to make that decision. No decision has been made to this point.

BASH: I know that you have seen President Trump suggested that a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine would include -- quote -- "some swapping of territories."

But just hours later, the Ukrainian president rejected this idea of a land swap. He said he will not be -- quote -- "gifting" any land. Is ceding Ukrainian territory still on the table?

WHITAKER: Both sides, again, are going to have to agree to end this war.

And we have seen it in the past in other contexts where, to get a line that both sides can agree to, certain strategic pieces that benefit either side are exchanged in order to make sure that they can both defend their territory successfully.

[09:05:12]

So, the technical people are talking, which is good news, because those are the ones that are going to say if land and what land would need to be swapped or exchanged. Certainly, I think -- I took Zelenskyy's comments at face value, which is that no big chunks or sections are going to be just given that haven't been fought for or earned on the battlefield.

But I come back to where I started, which is, we need this war to end. We could save thousands of lives with a deal. And I think that, by both sides communicating, by President Trump meeting in Alaska on Friday with either one or both of the combatants, I think this is exciting.

And I think President Trump's really the only one that could make this happen. He's the sole reason that I think this meeting is happening on Friday. He's a peacemaker. He's averaging about a peace deal a month right now. We saw just this week where Armenia and Azerbaijan came together to settle their decades-long conflict. It's been a series of peace deals.

And so I think President Trump is best situated to see if a deal can be had and if both sides can agree to ending the slaughter.

BASH: You are the ambassador to NATO. NATO has been a very hot topic and much desired for Ukraine for some time.

Right now, where the current situation is, President Trump hasn't publicly offered any kind of security assurances or arms sales to Ukraine. Let's just start there. Could that happen in any potential deal?

WHITAKER: Well, remember, a couple of weeks ago, we did agree to sell U.S. armaments, which are the best. And it's one of the reasons that, quite frankly, Vladimir Putin wants the meeting, is because U.S. equipment is now moving to Ukraine, being purchased by our European and Canadian NATO allies.

And that's a big step. And, obviously, the sanctions and the tariffs that were placed on India I think also brought Vladimir Putin to the table. But sort of what -- whether or not a member -- membership to NATO is on the table, the deciders of that ultimately is not Russia. The deciders that are the 32 members of NATO, who have to agree unanimously to admit anyone to membership.

And there's a lot of steps along the way before that would ever happen. But, at the same time, Russia doesn't have a vote on that, that I can tell.

BASH: Russia doesn't have a vote on it, but Vladimir Putin certainly has an opinion on it. What are you hearing from your counterparts there about the notion of that being any part of these broader discussions, that being Ukrainian membership to NATO?

WHITAKER: While we were at the NATO summit in The Hague a couple of months ago, President Trump expressed publicly that he was taken by how much the European allies especially emphasized the Ukrainian conflict as important to their own security.

And I think that kind of struck a chord with him. And I think he's been taking steps to -- one, to end this war, but at the same time to make sure that Ukraine can defend itself. And that's why we announced the deal with the sale of U.S. equipment.

But the Europeans are very seriously invested and interested in the outcome of this war. And they want to make sure that the deal, if done, is fair to Ukraine especially, who was invaded by Russia, but, at the same time, it's a deal that both sides can agree to.

And my European allies here at NATO have a very keen interest in this war. They're paying close attention. And a lot of them are writing checks to support Ukraine in many different ways.

BASH: Can I ask you a fundamental question? Do you believe, does President Trump believe that he can trust Vladimir Putin?

WHITAKER: You know, again, I think it's -- Ronald Reagan taught us you have to trust, but verify.

And so I think, in any situation with competing national interests, whether it's the United States, Ukraine, Russia, or any of our allies, you just can't take people at their face value. You're going to look at actions.

And I think that's one of the things that is -- President Trump has mentioned, is that he would have a good conversation with Vladimir Putin, and then, that night, rockets and drones would attack the major cities in Ukraine. And so it's going to be about actions. Words are cheap.

But, in this case, whether it's the Russians or the Ukrainians, both sides are going to have to take the actions to have peace and to continue to honor that peace. And I pay very close attention to a lot of the conflicts around the world. And in each case where President Trump has come in and helped negotiate a resolution of it, it has been a verification that the hostilities have concluded.

[09:10:13]

And whether it's India-Pakistan, whether it's the Congo and Rwanda or all the other peace deals that President Trump has been able to negotiate, there's always a verification. You cannot just completely trust words on a sheet of paper. But, right now, we're in the talking phase. And that's, I think, where we need to start having the technical experts on both sides actually putting a peace deal on paper. And I think this Friday could be an important step to get that done.

BASH: Certainly will be the test of all tests, certainly up to this point.

Matthew Whitaker, U.S. ambassador to NATO, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

WHITAKER: Thank you.

BASH: And up next:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING)

SANDERS: Thank you. What a great turnout.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Hitting the road with Senator Bernie Sanders as he launches his August swing of his speaking tour in a state you might not expect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:38]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

A key progressive voice in the reddest of red states. Senator Bernie Sanders is spending this congressional recess back on what he calls his Fighting Oligarchy Tour, trying to help Democrats find their footing among working-class Americans and reclaim power next November.

I hit the road with the senator in West Virginia as he took his message to the heart of Trump country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: It's good to be with you here. We're in Wheeling, West Virginia. And it's so fascinating that this is part of what you call your Fighting the Oligarchy Tour, because this is a state where Donald Trump got 70 percent.

SANDERS: Really?

BASH: Seventy percent.

SANDERS: Wouldn't have known that tonight.

BASH: Well, yes. And this was an auditorium that was packed. It was at capacity.

Still, what makes you think that your message tonight is going to resonate in such a red state?

SANDERS: Well, among other things, when I ran for president, I think here in West Virginia we won every single county.

Look, this is a working-class state. It's one of the poorest states in the country. People are hurting. And they want candidates to come before them to stand up for the working class and take on the oligarchs, who have so much economic and political power.

So I think I think the message will resonate here. I think it will resonate in many red states throughout the country, because, at the end of the day, 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck. They don't want to see tax breaks for billionaires. They don't want to see the rich get richer. They want health care as a human right. They want to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.

They want to be able to live in housing that they can afford.

BASH: One of the things that you talked about here, as you have been talking about since even before it passed, is what the president calls his Big Beautiful Bill, cuts to Medicaid, other programs; 25 percent of West Virginians receive Medicaid; 15 percent rely on food stamps.

And yet, as I mentioned, West Virginians overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump. How do you square that circle?

SANDERS: Well, that's a longer story that has to do with the failure of the Democratic Party in general to speak to the needs of the working class.

This used to be, decades ago, one of the strongest Democratic states in the country. Now it's a strong Republican state, because I think, in many ways, the Democratic Party has turned its back on what was its space.

But I think our job and what -- the reason I'm here and the reason we go to red states all over the country is to make it clear that there are some of us who are prepared to stand up for the working class. And if we become -- if we stand together, if we're united, if we don't let Trump divide us up, there's no stopping what we can do as a nation in terms of improving life for ordinary people.

BASH: You said the Democratic Party has turned its back on the working class.

You said something pretty tough when you were speaking to this crowd about Kamala Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: One of the reasons, in my view, that Kamala Harris lost the election is, she had too many billionaires telling her not to speak up for the working class of this country. (CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Ouch.

SANDERS: Well, no, I think -- I mean, I don't think that that's -- I like Kamala. She's a friend of mine.

But she was -- her core consultants were heavily influenced by very wealthy people. How do you run for president and not develop a strong agenda which speaks to the economic crises facing working families? You have more income and wealth inequality today than we have ever had. You have 60 percent of our people living paycheck to paycheck.

You have got a health care system which is broken and dysfunctional. And despite spending so much, we're the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people. How do you not talk about those issues?

BASH: She talked about affordability.

SANDERS: Well, but in a vague -- I don't want to rehash that campaign.

BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: But I think the clue to Democratic victories is to understand that you have got to stand unequivocally with the working class of this country. You need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working people.

Is it a radical idea that we join every other major country on Earth and guarantee health care to all people? Is that a radical idea? You tell me how many people are talking about that. Is it a radical idea to say that we have got to raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour? Is it a radical idea to say that, in the midst of a competitive global economy, we need to make sure we have the best-educated work force, that all of our kids, regardless of income, should be able to get a higher education?

[09:20:13]

These ideas exist all over the world. They don't exist in America. And they don't exist because of the power of the oligarchs economically and politically. All right, let's be clear. In my view, the current political system in the United States of America is broken and corrupt.

Does anybody think that it makes any sense at all that Elon Musk can spend $270 million to elect Trump as president and then become the most important person in government? Billionaires should not be able to buy elections. And, by the way, that's not just a progressive perspective. Conservatives understand that too.

BASH: What makes you so sure that the solution that you're offering, which is a more assertive federal government, is something that is going to fly in places where people have been voting in recent years Republican and have an inherent distrust of government?

SANDERS: Well, they should -- and they should have a distrust, for a number of reasons. The government is too bureaucratic and not responsive.

But -- and let me tell you what I'm sure you already know, is that, if you look at the polling -- and I asked the people here today. You heard me ask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Anybody here think that the American health care system is vaguely effective?

AUDIENCE: No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Nobody in America thinks it's working. We spend twice as much as other countries, 85 million uninsured or underinsured; 60,000 people die a year because they can't get to a doctor on time.

Do you think that, in America, with all of our genius, all of our capabilities, we, spending so much money, cannot provide a high- quality system that guarantees health care to all people? And do you think people here don't know that? They know. They know we can do it.

Throughout Europe and other countries, you don't have to leave college $50,000, $100,000 in debt, or a half-a-million in debt if you go to medical school. That makes zero sense.

But, look, let's be clear on the message of tonight and what I will continue to give. You have a government today that is run by the wealthiest people in this country. They are extremely greedy people. They want it all. And we have got to stand up to them.

Unfortunately, for many decades, that has not been the Democratic Party, and that has got to change.

BASH: I'm sure you have heard about some Democrats who are talking about embracing the so-called abundance movement...

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: ... the idea that liberal politicians have created too much regulatory red tape and it stops government from getting anything done.

I spoke recently to Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres, who said that Democrats shouldn't be the party of more government, but the party of better, cheaper and faster government. What do you make of that idea? SANDERS: Well, I think it is clear.

Look, I deal with bureaucracy every day at the federal level, the state level, at the local level. It's absolutely true. To build a house, to do this, do that, you have to go through all kinds of things. To apply for Medicaid, you have got to fill out 87 forms. Dealing with your insurance companies, you have got to fill out a million forms.

We live in a world which is much, much too complicated. So, if the goal is to make it sure that, within environmental safeguards, we can move forward much faster, the answer is yes.

But that is not the fundamental problem facing America. The fundamental problem facing America is that you have got a handful of oligarchs who have enormous wealth, enormous economic power, enormous political power, and they want even more. That is the fundamental issue.

Should we make government more efficient? Absolutely.

BASH: Just a couple of political questions.

President Trump suggested this week that the vice president, J.D. Vance, is probably the favorite to take over the so-called MAGA movement. He's from this kind of area. I mean, he's from Appalachia. He probably has appeal in red states and working-class areas.

Do you think him being an heir to the MAGA movement is something that should be concerning to Democrats trying to defeat MAGA?

SANDERS: Not my thing at all. I really don't know. I don't particularly care. I think he has nothing really -- neither Trump nor he, nor the Republicans of today have anything of significance to say to working-class people.

What they're trying to do is to divide us up. Oh, you're a Muslim. You're undocumented. You're black. You're gay. Let's divide everybody up so that rich can become richer. Our job is to bring people together. Doesn't matter to me who heads the Republican Party.

BASH: Redistricting.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: What's going on in Texas. Republicans are pushing to redraw the state's map to try to bolster the House GOP majority, eliminating Democratic seats.

I know you have been a very -- a longtime opponent of gerrymandering with redistricting, but you also say the Democratic governors should -- quote -- "fight fire with fire" and redraw...

[09:25:09]

SANDERS: Look, there are a couple of things here. BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: What is quite incredible, I mean, see, we are taking Trumpism kind of as normal.

Trump is the one who came up with the idea. He says, hmm, let's see. Texas, I think we can get five more seats. Do it. Oh, yes. Yes, sir. You're the great leader. We will do it.

And they're off and trying to do it. So everybody knows what's going on. It is undemocratic. It is outrageous.

BASH: And yet you think Democratic governors should try to push back and do the same thing?

SANDERS: I think it's sad.

I think they have no choice. I mean, what Trump is trying to do, he understands that there is a good chance that the Republicans will lose control over the House, I would hope the Senate as well. That will be a tougher fight. So he's trying to make -- in his authoritarian way, say, hey, I don't want to lose elections. Let's rig the system. Give me five more votes in Texas to me, maybe some other states.

So what should Democrats do, sit back and say, oh, gee, Trump is doing this terrible -- we can't do anything, let them win the election, when they should? So Democrats have got to fight back. I think it's pathetic, but I think that's what they have got to do.

BASH: Even though you have said that gerrymandering undermines the political process?

SANDERS: It does. Of course it does.

BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: It's -- what we have now is a terrible situation, and Republicans are making it worse.

But what do you do? If Republicans are doing it, you have to respond. It's pathetic, but I think you have to respond.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Up next, much more of my interview with Senator Bernie Sanders, including Bernie 2028?

Plus, the FBI is now getting involved as Texas Republicans escalate their redistricting fight. Our panel weighs in ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:53]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. As we enter a critical week on the foreign policy front for the White House, I asked Senator Bernie Sanders about President Trump's upcoming meeting with Vladimir Putin, as well as what he thinks the future might hold for him and his movement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: The president announced that Vladimir Putin is going to come to Alaska on August 15 and they're going to meet.

First, what's your reaction to Vladimir Putin coming onto American soil for this meeting?

SANDERS: Vladimir Putin is a really awful guy. When you talk about oligarchs, Putin is one of the richest guys in the world, running a kleptocratic society, and then he invaded Ukraine with incredible destruction.

I mean, tens and tens and tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have been killed. People in Ukraine are suffering terribly because this guy wanted to start the most -- the largest war since World War II in Europe. So, I'm not a great fan of Vladimir Putin.

BASH: What about the idea of this summit or meeting?

SANDERS: Look, we -- I -- you know, it's -- the bloodshed and the suffering is terrible. If, in fact, an agreement can be negotiated which does not compromise what the Ukrainians feel that they need, I think that's a positive step forward. We all want to see an end to the bloodshed.

BASH: Do you trust a Donald Trump-Vladimir Putin deal?

SANDERS: Well, it's not -- it can't be Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. The people of Ukraine obviously have got to have a significant say. It is their country.

So, if they feel, the people of Ukraine feel that the agreement is positive, that's good. If not, that's another story.

BASH: Let's talk about Israel.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: Israel's Security Cabinet approved a plan to take control of Gaza City. Your response?

SANDERS: Look, Israel had a right, of course, to defend itself from the terrible terrorist attack from Hamas, but what they have done since then is gone to war against the entire Palestinian people.

There are now some 60,000 who are dead, most of whom are women, children, and the elderly. You have got 18,000 kids, kids who have been killed, 3,000 children who have had one or another limb amputated. And now, on top of all of the destruction, human destruction, incredible destruction of their housing, of their schools, of their universities, of their health care systems, on top of all that, what Netanyahu does is impose a blockade preventing food to come in, and people are starving to death.

So I think the good news is that we are making some progress. I offered a resolution, as you know, a couple of weeks ago. We got 27 votes from Democrats to stop military weapons going to Gaza, no Republican support.

But you know what I think? I think Republicans at the grassroots level are also catching on that it is not a great idea to provide billions to a government that starves children.

BASH: Would you say Hamas has some culpability in people starving?

SANDERS: No.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Why, when they spent so money building tunnels and everything under...

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: So, right now, right now, what is going on is a slaughter, all right?

And right now, Israel is -- with few exceptions, is in control of the military situation. It is not Hamas. Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization, all right? And I certainly hope they have no future in a new Gaza or Palestine.

But the fault right now is 100 percent on a Netanyahu government, who has waged an all-out war, committed just -- I mean, it is war crimes. They are war crimes. Netanyahu is a war criminal, just as the guy who is head of Hamas is a war criminal. And the United States taxpayers should not be funding Netanyahu.

[09:35:00]

BASH: You have been critical of Benjamin Netanyahu for a very long time.

But I want to ask you just about something that sometimes gets lost, especially right now, when this debate is so emotional and so raw, which is -- especially on the left -- which is, take Netanyahu out of this.

Do you believe in the notion of Israel as a Jewish state?

SANDERS: Yes, I do, for a lot of reasons.

But, right now, what Netanyahu has done, what the Israeli government has done is become almost a pariah state. And I fear very much that Israel now is looked in very, very unfavorable light by people all over the world, all over the world, not just in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I was told that West Virginia was a conservative state. Somebody got it wrong.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Something that I'm sure you have seen, a Gallup poll. Did you see this Gallup poll?

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: And what the Gallup poll found was that you are one of the most widely admired Americans. And I believe you're only second to the pope.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: You want me to declare my candidacy for pope? Is that what you're asking?

BASH: I don't think -- I don't think that you're eligible, for a lot of reasons.

SANDERS: All right. Then I won't do that.

BASH: I watched you tonight. I have watched you for a very, very long time. You're obviously still full of vigor and intensity for the things that you're passionate about and have been for decades.

Is there another presidential run in you?

SANDERS: Oh, God. Let's not worry about that. I am going to be 84 years of age next month, as a matter of fact. So I think that speaks for itself.

But, right now, what is more important, in my view -- and I want to see, obviously, the most progressive candidate that we can have -- is to rally the grassroots of America. A moment ago, you asked me about West Virginia and why people vote for Donald Trump.

Our job is to turn that around. Our job is to educate and organize and give people, working-class people, an agenda which understands that, in the richest country in the history of the world, we can, in fact, provide a decent standard of living for all of our people.

BASH: But, Senator, you know better than I that you could have a very hungry and energized base with an idea of what they want, but if they don't find leadership or find the person that can articulate that, it doesn't change.

SANDERS: Well, you're asking a complicated issue.

I think strong grassroots movements will bring forth the appropriate leadership. I think, when people give up on the political process, when you have a handful of billionaires deciding who will run, which is the case right now...

BASH: Are there people out there who will -- that you feel comfortable and confident will take up the Bernie Sanders mantle and run in 2028?

SANDERS: Well, that's not the Bernie Sanders -- will they stand up and fight for economic and social and racial justice? Absolutely. There are some great young people.

BASH: Want to name names?

SANDERS: No.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Thank you so much.

SANDERS: Thank you.

BASH: It's nice to see you here.

SANDERS: OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And our thanks to the Capitol Theatre, the beautiful Capitol Theatre, in Wheeling, West Virginia, for hosting us.

Coming up: As President Trump hits the 200-day mark, his economic agenda locked in place and his foreign policy goals on the line, my panel is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:57]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will be meeting very shortly with President Putin. Europe wants to see peace. The European leaders want to see peace. President Putin, I believe, wants to see peace. And Zelenskyy wants to see peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

One of President Trump's key foreign policy goals, ending the war that Russia started against Ukraine, that will be put to a key test this week. And it comes as the bedrock of his economic agenda finally fell into place. The president's sweeping tariffs officially were nailed down with many countries.

My panel is here with me now.

I do want to start, though, on Russia and Ukraine. Governor, nice to see you. Nice to see you all.

What are your thoughts on the stakes here and what really is possible?

FMR. GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI): Well, I think they're high.

But I think this is one of those -- you almost think like Reagan in Reykjavik decades ago, where he was willing to walk away in that instance from what happened. And that -- historically, at the time, it was looked like as a media debacle.

But, historically look back, and that was one of the key moments in the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think this -- even though it was abruptly put together, I think this could be the beginning of peace. The key question is, what does that peace look like?

My guess would be -- Putin went into Ukraine under Obama and then under Biden. He didn't under Trump first term. My guess is, we probably end up with something like the boundaries as they were when Donald Trump first came into office.

BASH: Ashley?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think we have to just start with it's interesting to hear Vladimir Putin say he wants peace, when he was the one that started the war. We could have had peace without invasion. And that's the first premise that I hope that our president goes in and understands as well.

I think this is risky business. Like, Russia -- Vladimir Putin can't be trusted on his word. Even if he were to agree to a cease-fire, who is to say that a week, a month, a year later, he wouldn't backtrack on it? And what standing does that then put for -- let's forget about politics here -- just our country on the global stage? And so this is risky.

[09:45:00]

You also cannot negotiate a peace deal without the other person at war in the room, I believe. And so, sure, maybe you have your initial conversations with Zelenskyy, you have a conversation with Putin, but, at some point, they're going to have to come together and come to a consensus. And I'm just not sure that Putin and Zelenskyy see the world the same way.

BASH: So that's the week ahead. That's foreign policy, which is huge, as we have established.

But I don't want to lose sight of what we saw this past week, which is, the tariffs that the president has wanted for his adult life are pretty much set.

And, Kristen, you talk to voters all the time. What is your sense of the trepidation, even and especially among people who voted for Donald Trump? KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, right now,

the tariffs are not necessarily creating the kind of economic chaos that I think was forecast back in April around liberation day. There was a lot of panic, oh, no, this is going to create disaster.

And the backing off and the saying, let's negotiate, I think voters have given him a little bit of time and space to say, let's sort this out. What's going to matter most is, what does it look like in the checkout line? That's what this is all going to come down to.

It is hard to message your way out of a situation where people's shopping carts, if prices are really going up, if these retailers are saying, we have been absorbing some of this for a little while, but we're going to have to stop. There is a real potential for political blowback.

But I think the Trump administration and Republicans are feeling a little emboldened right now, because they were told the sky was going to fall back in April and it hasn't fallen yet.

MO ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AND PUBLIC SERVICE: But it also hasn't gotten into effect yet.

And that's to your point. Now the proof's going to be in the pudding. We're already starting to see some of it, right? We are already -- people are already beginning to feel a pinch at the checkout counter. I have less money in my wallet today than I did yesterday.

We're starting to see it in our retirement accounts, the volatility that's been there for months, will he or won't he? We're starting to see it. The market closing a little bit down, right? I have got less money in my retirement account today than I did yesterday.

Unless that turns around, if this is the new trajectory as these actually come into effect, if small business owners are really now starting to make those tough calls that they have been worried about for so long, he cannot -- he cannot overcome that.

WALKER: Well, if you get to the point where trade, if they level the playing field, I think we're in good shape going into next year.

Right now, it's the question mark. That's the big question out there. But I think back, it does have an impact on prices. Last year in the campaign, there was no doubt about it.

I said repeatedly on your show and elsewhere. When I pointed to four years earlier paying a buck and a quarter more at QuikTrip when I filled up every gallon of gas I got in Wisconsin, or when I could get one grocery cart full of groceries for what I could get for two four years earlier, that had an impact, that will have an impact going into the midterm elections, not necessarily in the next week or two, but by not next fall, but by next spring.

If people are paying more, they're going to feel it. If things level off, we're in good shape. ALLISON: I will just say that there's a second piece to this

situation, and that's the budget bill that was always passed.

Now, Republicans were smart, and a lot of the provisions that actually will cut social safety net programs go in after the midterms. But Democrats have a challenge. Can they say, your prices are getting higher and higher under a trifecta of Republicans, and, if you keep them in office, your Medicaid is going to be gone, your SNAP benefits are going to go on, your veteran affairs benefits are getting cut, it's only going to get worse?

Can they get that narrative out and make Americans understand it and really feel that impact? We will see.

BASH: OK, speaking of the midterms, we have got to talk about what the president is pushing Republicans to do ahead of the midterms, which is just find more seats. And what's going on in Texas is obviously just the beginning.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: And part of the reason why we're even able to have a conversation about redistricting in Texas that could net Republican a lot of seats is because Donald Trump did so well with Latino voters and took a state like Texas that Democrats have been eying for a while saying, maybe this is the year we turned Texas purple, and really made it just solidly red.

That has changed the political geography within that state. It's made places that used to be safe Democratic now very available and winnable for Republicans. And that's why he feels so emboldened to say, this state, let's do this, let's change this right here.

ELLEITHEE: This is such a terrible story on so many different levels, right, like, the gaming of the system that we're seeing, the escalating redistricting wars that now you're going to have Democratic governors -- I mean, this is bad for politics. This is bad for democracy. It is bad for the country.

And it is exactly what Donald Trump said he was going to be fighting against. He said he was going to be fighting against a rigged system. Instead, what he's doing is further rigging it, now pushing the other side to try to rig it back. This is exactly what people said they didn't want, what they hoped he would get us out of. And, instead, he's just pouring gasoline on the fire.

[09:50:03]

WALKER: Well, the irony is, Texas Democrats went to Illinois, the most gerrymandered state in the nation...

BASH: Yes.

WALKER: ... probably in the history of the nation. So the talk is -- this rigging has been on it for years out there, and there's pushback here.

I think the lesson I gave -- I wrote about this in "The Washington Post" this morning. My friend Greg Abbott and Republicans in the legislature should push back on two things. One, number one job of a lawmaker is to vote. If you're a surgeon, you belong in the operating room. If you're a teacher, you belong in the classroom. If you're a cook, you belong in the kitchen.

These folks have abandoned their job if they're indefinitely in Texas -- or not in Texas, but Illinois or other states. And, secondly, make the case about why clean, concise districts they're proposing make sense. You got to explain the why, not just the what, as opposed to the politics here.

ALLISON: Well, they did make sense before this aggressive push to gerrymandering.

Here's the thing, I think voters just want you to say what you're actually doing. If you're trying to rig the system and you want Republicans to win, just ten toes down say it. Don't pretend like you're trying to do this -- because those lines were agreed on a bipartisan manner already.

The reason why they're changing it is because Republicans don't know if they can take the House. And if they can't keep the House in 2026, Donald Trump's agenda stops and could be reversed.

BASH: Thanks, one and all. Appreciate it.

After nearly 150 years, a historic first for women on the baseball diamond.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:59]

BASH: It was a barrier-breaking night at the ballpark.

For the first time in 149 years, a woman umped a regular season MLB game; 48-year-old Jen Pawol took her place at first base last night in Atlanta. She was greeted with a standing ovation worthy of a star player from about 35,000 fans. It was a moment years in the making for Pawol. She spent the last decade umping more than 1,200 minor league games.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PAWOL, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL UMPIRE: I always wanted to umpire. Like, I knew I had the bug. I had it in my DNA. The dream actually came true today. And I'm still living in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Her time at the show is only beginning. She will be calling balls and strikes later this afternoon from behind home plate.

Thanks so much for spending your Sunday morning with us. Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.