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State of the Union

Interview With Special Envoy Steve Witkoff; Interview With Former Vice President Mike Pence. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 17, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:47]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Reversal. President Trump rolls out the red carpet and makes new demands after meeting with Putin.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no deal until there's a deal.

TAPPER: What did they agree on behind closed doors? The man who joined that meeting, U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff, is live next.

Plus: hot seat. Trump endorses a big Putin goal for the war and ramps up pressure on Ukraine's leader.

TRUMP: Ultimately up to them.

TAPPER: As the men prepare for another Oval Office meeting tomorrow, did Putin get exactly what he wanted? Trump's former Vice President, who broke with him over Russia policy, Mike Pence is ahead.

And playing with fire. Five days left for Democrats to counter Trump's redistricting push in Texas.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We have got to meet fire with fire.

TAPPER: But with voters skeptical, will Democrats muscle it through? Our panel breaks it all down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, D.C., where the state of our union is gearing up for another big meeting.

President Trump wakes up today in Washington, D.C., where in just hours he's going to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and a coterie of other European and NATO leaders, including the leaders of the U.K., France, Italy, Germany and the E.U., presenting a united front along with Ukraine, coming on the heels of an extraordinary summit between Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin, where Trump warmly welcomed Putin back to the world stage, but did not clinch the cease-fire deal that he had demanded of Russia.

In fact, Trump did not divulge many details about what the two men discussed or accomplished, but the president now says he prefers a larger and more comprehensive peace agreement to end the war, which, unlike a cease-fire, would allow Russia to continue bombarding Ukraine for now, as they did overnight in an attack that killed five Ukrainians.

Yesterday, we learned Trump also passed along to European leaders another Putin demand, that Ukraine cede more of its land to Russia, including the entire Donbass region, which Putin has not been able to take full control of militarily.

That is sure to rankle President Zelenskyy, who's heading into what could be another charged Oval Office meeting with Trump and his vice president, J.D. Vance, tomorrow, along with those European allies, everyone eager to learn what exactly Trump and Putin agreed to in their almost-three-hour-long meeting in Anchorage, Alaska, Friday, and where Trump stands now on Russia's role in ending this bloody war.

Joining us now to discuss is U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff, who was in the room for the Trump-Putin summit. And it was a three-on-three, and he was one of the three. He has also met face-to-face with Vladimir Putin many times, including earlier this month in Moscow.

Ambassador Witkoff, always good to have you on. Thank you so much.

So, President Trump called this an extremely productive meeting and said many points were agreed to. You were in the room. Can you give us two specific points that were agreed to?

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: We agreed, Jake -- first of all, thank you for having me, and good morning.

We agreed to robust security guarantees that I would describe as game- changing. We didn't think that we were anywhere close to agreeing to Article 5 protection from the United States, legislative enshrinement within the Russian Federation not to go after any other territory when the peace deal is codified, legislative enshrinement in the Russian Federation, not to go after any other European countries and violate their sovereignty.

So we agreed to -- and there was plenty more.

TAPPER: Oh.

Here's what President Trump said going into the meeting about the need for a cease-fire. Let's roll that tape.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to see a cease- fire rapidly. I don't know if it's going to be today, but I'm not going to be happy if it's not today. Everyone said it can't be today, but I'm just saying I want the killing to stop. I'm in this to stop the killing. (END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Obviously, the cease-fire didn't happen. Last night, Russia launched more than 60 aerial attacks across Ukraine, killing at least five people, injuring 11.

President Trump had said, if he didn't like what he was hearing in the meeting, he would walk out. Why didn't he once it became clear Putin was not going to agree to a cease-fire, which would end the bloodshed now?

[09:05:01]

WITKOFF: Jake, the one thing -- we were there as a mediator, so we were obviously advancing the Ukrainian view.

The one thing that the president cannot agree to on behalf of the Ukrainians is any sort of land swap. That is for the Ukrainians. We have -- they have asked us or stated that to us, and the president is respectful of it. But that's why we're moving so quickly to a meeting on Monday at the Oval Office with President Zelenskyy.

That being said, we covered almost all the other issues necessary for a peace deal. So I describe the cease-fire as the interim move, where you would then negotiate towards a peace deal. We made so much progress at this meeting with regard to all the other ingredients necessary for a peace deal that we, that President Trump pivoted to that place.

Now, we're not waiting a week for a meeting with President Zelenskyy and the European leaders or two weeks or three weeks. We're going into a meeting with them within 48 hours of ending this meeting in Alaska. So we are intent on trying to hammer out a peace deal that ends the fighting permanently very, very quickly, quicker than a cease-fire.

TAPPER: How would it be quicker than a cease -- I understand the idea of, like, a larger peace deal is an important point. But it was President Trump that had said that he wanted a cease-fire agreed to at the meeting on Friday. And he didn't get it.

And there are now five Ukrainians who are dead because the Russians continue to bombard Ukraine. I still don't understand how not getting the cease-fire deal is a win. I understand the idea of wanting this bigger package, of course. But a cease-fire would at least stop the bloodshed right now.

WITKOFF: Jake, the thesis of a cease-fire is that you would be discussing all of these issues that we resolved in Alaska. You would be discussing security guarantees.

There's not a person on the European team who didn't acknowledge that we made substantial progress at this meeting. We certainly did. So we cut through all kinds of issues that would be -- that would have to be discussed and agreed to during a cease-fire period.

What we are -- the land -- the fundamental issue, which is some sort of land swap, which is obviously ultimately in the control of the Ukrainians, that had -- that could not have been discussed at this meeting. We intend to discuss it on Monday.

Hopefully, we have some clarity on it, and hopefully that ends up in a peace deal very, very soon.

TAPPER: So Trump told FOX that he and Putin -- quote -- "largely have agreed on" -- unquote -- land swaps. And sources tell CNN that Trump, President Trump, told European leaders that Putin will agree to end the war and not attack Ukraine or other European countries, as you mentioned earlier, in exchange for Ukraine ceding the entire Donbass region to Russia, including territory that isn't even currently occupied by Russian forces.

Is that accurate? Is that what's on the table, but Ukraine has to agree to cede all of Donbass?

WITKOFF: I think -- I think, look, I don't know that we have -- we have the time now to go through all the different issues on these five regions. There are five regions here. It's always, in our view, been the crux of the deal.

Those five regions, the Russians have previously said that they wanted it at the administrative lines. That's a -- the administrative lines and the actual legal boundary lines, as compared to the contact lines. We made -- the Russians made some concessions at the table with regard to all five of those regions.

There is an important discussion to be had with regard to Donetsk and what would happen there. And that discussion is going to specifically be detailed on Monday, when President Zelenskyy arrives with his delegation and some of the other European leaders.

And, hopefully, we can cut through and make some decisions right then and there on that.

TAPPER: What more Russian concessions can you tell us about? Because obviously ceding land up to the administrative line is not a small thing for Ukraine to agree to.

You said that Russia would agree to legislatively saying they wouldn't seize any more land in Ukraine past the administrative line, that Russia agreed to legislatively assert that they will not attack any other European countries. What other concessions from Russia might there be?

WITKOFF: They made some other concessions on several of the regions. I'm not going to discuss it now.

The Ukrainians are aware of it, as are the Europeans, and it was significant. And that doesn't mean it's enough. But it was -- the point was that we began to see some moderation in the way they're thinking about getting to a final peace deal. And so we feel that that's encouraging.

[09:10:07] Now, we briefed the Europeans immediately after we were done with the summit. We -- first, we briefed President Zelenskyy directly. He deserved that. And the president got right on the phone with him. And then we had the Europeans on the phone.

And I think everybody agreed that we had made progress, maybe not enough for a peace deal, but we're on the path for the first time. We are seeing accommodation more than we have seen in the past, certainly more than we saw in the last administration. And that is -- that's encouraging.

Now we have to build on that. And we have to get a deal for the Ukrainians that allows for their self-determination, allows protection of their sovereign borders. We have to make sure that we achieve that. And the president is intent on getting to that place.

TAPPER: In terms of Ukrainian security guarantees, you mentioned the Article 5 guarantee of NATO, an attack on one is an attack on all. Russia would allow that to happen, that any more -- any further incursions into Ukraine, Russia would understand would be seen as an attack on all NATO members?

WITKOFF: No, Jake, that's not what I said.

What I said is that we got to an agreement that the United States and other European nations could effectively offer Article 5-like language to cover a security guarantee. So, Putin has said that a red flag is NATO admission.

TAPPER: Right.

WITKOFF: And so what we were discussing was, assuming that that held, assuming that the Ukrainians could agree to that and could live with that -- and everything is going to be -- is going to about what the Ukrainians can live with.

But, assuming they could, we were able to win the following concession, that the United States could offer Article 5-like protection, which is one of the real reasons why Ukraine wants to be in NATO. We sort of were able to bypass that and get an agreement that the United States could offer Article 5 protection, which was the first time we had ever heard the Russians agree to that.

TAPPER: Zelenskyy says he supports President Trump's plan for a trilateral meeting, Putin-Zelenskyy-Trump. Has Putin agreed to do such a thing?

WITKOFF: Well, my belief is that we are going to -- this is my view.

My belief, my view is that we are going to get to a trilateral. And what we're trying to accomplish on Monday is get some consensus from President Zelenskyy and his team. We had some really good, specific, granular conversation on the plane ride home with President Zelenskyy about what he would be seeking.

And we don't think that there are any obstacles in that conversation that we heard. And so I'm hopeful that we have a productive meeting on Monday, we get to real consensus, we're able to come back to the Russians and push this peace deal forward and get it done and stop the killing.

TAPPER: Did President Trump tell you at all what he and Putin talked about in their brief time just one-on-one in the Beast, the presidential limo?

WITKOFF: I did not discuss that with him, Jake, no.

TAPPER: Ambassador Steve Witkoff, always great to have you here. I think everybody here is praying for peace and hoping that this works.

WITKOFF: Thank you. Thank you. So are we.

TAPPER: Thank you so much, sir. I appreciate your time.

Coming up: He was Trump's vice president. The two split famously over how to approach and handle Vladimir Putin. So what did Vice President Mike Pence make of the Alaska summit? I will ask him live next.

Plus: Is Governor Gavin Newsom showing Democrats the path back to power?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:30]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

When Russian leader Vladimir Putin arrived on American soil on Friday. President Trump literally rolled out the red carpet -- or he didn't do it, but American service members did -- welcoming the Russian dictator with handshakes and applause and smiles, even a ride in the presidential limo.

Now, Trump says Putin wants peace in Ukraine. My next guest is not so sure.

Joining us now live is President Trump's former Vice President Mike Pence.

Vice President Pence, thanks so much for joining us.

You just heard Ambassador Witkoff say the meeting...

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thanks for having me on, Jake.

TAPPER: You just heard Ambassador Witkoff say the meeting was a big success. President Trump says the meeting was a 10 out of 10. What rating would you give it?

PENCE: Well, first, I think the president should be commended for pursuing peace in Ukraine. This president has already secured peace agreements in Africa, Armenia and Azerbaijan.

I think he deserves credit as leader of the free world for not giving up on Ukraine, particularly, Jake, since there are many voices in and around the administration that would have cut Ukraine loose months ago. So I want to commend the president for trying to make progress.

I must tell you, I would have liked to have seen a cease-fire, but the truth is that no deal is better than a bad deal. And what we heard Ambassador Witkoff describe is encouraging, that there was at least an assent in Putin's and Trump's meeting to the United States providing security guarantees.

[09:20:11]

And, clearly, the president didn't forfeit anything having to do with America's national security or with the security of our allies in Eastern Europe in the midst of this war.

But, at the end of the day, it's important remember the bad guy here is Putin. Putin launched an unprovoked, brutal invasion more than three years ago. I have traveled to Ukraine twice. I have literally walked the streets, seen the aftermath of that brutal invasion.

And now, more than ever, America and our allies need to stand strongly with Ukraine and create the conditions for a just and lasting peace.

TAPPER: You said last month that you thought President Trump was beginning to realize -- quote -- "Vladimir Putin doesn't want peace. Vladimir Putin wants Ukraine" -- unquote.

As you noted, there was no cease-fire agreed to. President Trump seemed to indicate before the summit that that was -- that had to happen or he said there would be various of your consequences. Since the summit, he's dropped -- he's dropped demands for an immediate cease-fire. Five Ukrainians were killed overnight.

He's telling people, you heard Witkoff say, a peace deal, a larger peace deal can be reached quickly if Putin's demands, which include Ukraine's ceding control of the entire Donbass region to Russia, are met. What do you make of all that?

I mean, there are observers out there, people who like Trump, people who are rooting for Trump, who think that Trump got played.

PENCE: Well, look, I served alongside the president for four years. I know his style in dealing with these dictators. It's the velvet glove, but I think the hammer needs to come, and it needs to come immediately.

I think the president, as he welcomes President Zelenskyy to the Oval Office tomorrow and a whole cast of our allies in Europe that are going to joining be him, I think, at the same time, he ought to pick up the phone and ask Majority Leader John Thune to immediately pass the secondary sanctions bill that is supported by virtually everyone in the United States Senate. I think the combination of engagement, but also making it clear to

Putin that we are prepared to take actions that would literally break his economy, even while we redouble our commitment to the security of Ukraine and to working closely with our European allies, is important.

Look, I said it before. I will say it again. In the long history of the last 25 years, Putin has made it clear. He launched an attack into Georgia when President Bush was in office. He attacked Crimea and Ukraine when Obama was in office. After that disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan, he crossed the border and started this war three years ago.

Putin's made it no secret of the fact that he wants to reassert the old Soviet sphere of influence, what we used to call the evil empire, in Eastern Europe. And I think Putin only understands strength.

So, while the president and his diplomatic team engage in this reapproach with Putin, and there seems to be interest, in my judgment, Putin's not going to stop until he's stopped and until he understands that there's going to be enormous cost to Russia and there's an unflagging commitment to defending Ukraine's sovereignty by the United States and our allies.

TAPPER: Is there any way -- I mean, can you explain or under -- do you understand at all how the summit could end without a cease-fire agreed to, and that would be acceptable? I mean, there are five Ukrainians who are now dead. I'm not blaming it on President Trump. It's obviously President Putin's fault.

PENCE: Right.

TAPPER: But if the cease-fire had happened on Friday, those five Ukrainians would be alive.

PENCE: Well, I just -- I -- your question in the last segment was relevant. There's a way that Putin can end the violence immediately, and that's with the cease-fire, but then move to negotiations.

But, look, when it ended and we all watched that press conference and it was clear there was no cease-fire, I must tell you that I was not surprised. I mean, we -- there was an agreement by President Zelenskyy to a cease-fire back in February. Putin refused it. He's managed to delay the game. All the while, his military has continued its brutal assault on civilian populations in Ukraine.

I think that's the reason why, look, let's have the dialogue tomorrow at the White House. I'm also going to be praying that it's a productive time and a unifying time among all the leaders in the West and the president and President Zelenskyy.

[09:25:08]

But at the same time, I have always said, the United States' posture on the world ought to be one hand extended in friendship and diplomacy, and the other hand resting comfortably on the holster of the arsenal of democracy. I think Putin is only going to understand that there are going to be

severe consequences, as the president promised, if there is no progress from here. The last thing we want to see is for Putin to use this latest delay as a reason to continue this war all the way until the winter hits and the fighting season essentially passes in that part of the world.

We can't allow Vladimir Putin to run out the clock on the war in this year and in this season. We literally have to do both things, and that is, the sanctions ought to be on the president's desk available for his signature while negotiations begin.

That's the most important way that we will ensure that there's real progress toward the peace agreement that the president has said is the ultimate conclusion.

TAPPER: Before you go, sir, here in Washington, D.C., President Trump has deployed the National Guard and other federal troops, ostensibly in response to an emergency of lawlessness and high crime in D.C.

I am curious what goes through your mind when you see the president aggressively pushing out the National Guard, when he didn't do so on January 6, 2021, as the Capitol was under attack, a mob was trying to lynch you, and your family was in danger?

PENCE: Well, January 6 was a tragic day, but I know we did our duty that day, and I wish the president would have done more.

But I welcome his decision to deploy the National Guard and essentially federalize the D.C. Police Department. I know that it's all now working in a very cooperative way.

Jake, if the District of Columbia was actually a state, it would have the highest homicide rate in the country. And this is where our national government has to be able to operate, where tens of thousands of people, you included, work every day.

I think it's important what the president is doing. I fully support it. And I think the American people welcome the president taking decisive action to ensure the streets of our nation's capital are safe and also continues to provide resources across the country to make all of our cities and towns and communities safe.

TAPPER: Former Vice President Mike Pence, thank you for joining us. Hope you and your family are thriving.

PENCE: Thank you. Thank you so much.

TAPPER: A big task for Democrats this week.

Can they convince skeptical voters, including skeptical Democrats, that the only way to beat Republicans is to take a page from the playbook of the Republicans that the Democrats have been assailing for years?

My panel's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have always had a fantastic relationship with President Putin, with Vladimir.

I think the meeting was a 10 in the sense that we got along great. The meeting was a very warm meeting. He's a strong guy. He's tough as hell. He's a very smart guy. I think President Putin would like to solve the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

President Trump laying on the praise for Vladimir Putin, even as both men left Alaska without much to show, at least publicly, for the much- hyped presidential summit.

My panel joins me now.

Let us start with you, Kristen Soltis Anderson. Obviously, nobody begrudges anybody trying to stop the bloodshed in Ukraine. The question is, is this the best way to do it? And is this actually a path to peace or just a path to helping Putin ultimately on the world stage and also extending the war?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's so interesting that Donald Trump, who for a long time has talked about America needs to kind of let the rest of the world deal with its own issues, has viewed himself as of late as somebody who can really play an active role, whether it is brokering peace deals and, in this case, sees himself as central to being able to solve this conflict.

And what I think is -- what I'm hopeful about is, on Monday, you have all of these folks coming to the White House coming from Europe. One, Donald Trump's base is actually more supportive of being tough on Russia than you might think.

In just the last couple of months, Donald Trump's sort of slight shift in posture toward being more sympathetic toward the Ukrainian cause has made a 10 percent jump in the percentage of Republicans who support financial sanctions, 20 percent jump in terms of those who support military aid.

TAPPER: We have the graphics there for all ready for you.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Yes.

It's remarkable in just a short amount of time that Trump signaling this tougher posture has made his base come with him. And I especially think that Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni being part of this meeting, she is very in sync with the MAGA base. She spoke at CPAC. For her to come here and say, this is why it matters to stick up for Ukraine, I think, is important.

TAPPER: What do you think, Bakari?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think Vladimir Putin is a thug. I think he's a war criminal. And I think he made Donald Trump look small.

I mean, I understand the minutiae of where -- I want a deal, like every other American wants a deal, or you should be praying for that deal. However, like I have said before many times, Donald Trump cannot perform on the world stage because he simply does not have the intellect to match up with these world leaders. He's not Barack Obama. He's not Hillary Clinton.

He's not even George Bush when it comes to being able to maneuver in these environments. And so what you saw was Vladimir Putin come and get what he wanted. I mean, the winner of this is Vladimir Putin. I don't know why we're trying to hide the ball.

[09:35:05]

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's what happened when he took Crimea. Obama gave him exactly what he wanted when he let Vladimir Putin have Crimea without so much as a shot or an objection.

I think we're also skipping past what happened a week-and-a-half ago. President Trump imposed a 50 percent tariff on India. Why does that matter? India gets 40 percent of its oil today from Russia. That was less than 1 percent just two years ago.

If you want to stop Vladimir Putin long term, long term, in his aggression, you have to shut off his oil dollars.

NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: So the irony about there with the oil dollars is that that same Friday is that sanctions were supposed to be imposed on Putin. And that came and went, and nothing happened.

And then suddenly Putin gets rewarded, but with a one-on-one meeting with Trump. And that starts the backpedaling of European phone calls educating Donald Trump on how Vladimir Putin works. And all of that ended up leading to, what, a one-on-one meeting where Russia was allowed on U.S. soil in Alaska, which many Russians still believe belongs to them or should come back to them, and bringing now Russia back.

And, literally, Trump acknowledged Russia as a superpower. Now, I mention this because the Crimea example you mentioned is what kicked Russia out of the elite group of U.S. -- of global economic powers. The G8 became the G7.

TAPPER: Right.

HAQ: And now Trump has elevated Russia back to this status of equal with all of the democratic powers, and to the point now where the United States has accepted a war criminal into the country, is not doing any more sanctions, and is not holding Putin accountable for the invasion.

That is the key thing. All of this started because Putin decided to invade a sovereign European country.

TAPPER: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: In 2014, when he invaded Crimea. Would we be here right now if Obama had stopped him...

SELLERS: The irony...

HAQ: Yes, because Russian imperial ambitions have not changed.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: The great irony of the Crimea example is, Barack Obama made sure that Russia was simply a barren country with a nuclear weapon and maybe a gas pump. Like, that was it.

And now, because you lifted sanctions, because you're weak on this thug, because you're weak on this war criminal, and you can't -- I mean, not you, but the president of the United States can't even call him that. I mean, we have to call a spade a spade and be able to dictate who and what Vladimir Putin is.

TAPPER: Yes.

SELLERS: And Donald Trump's afraid to do that.

TAPPER: So let me -- let's move on just because we have so much to discuss. There's this redistricting battle, very intense between Democrats and Republicans. In California, Governor Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, unveiled new California maps to counter the redistricting going on in Texas that will ultimately likely create five new Republican seats.

Let's play a little bit of what Newsom had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): They want to rig these elections, and they want the power that gerrymandering provides, because they know what Donald Trump knows. He's going to lose the midterms. Wake up, America. This is a serious moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you think?

TODD: Well, first off, let's -- five -- of these five seats that are proposed in Texas, four of them are majority Hispanic seats. Democrats are saying we can't win Hispanic seats, don't draw Hispanic seats. That's point number one.

Point number two is, Texas is currently less productive regarding relative to its whole overall vote than California and Illinois are. Currently, in Illinois, Democrats get maybe 56, 57 percent of the vote. They have 83 percent of the seats. In New York, they have 73 percent of the seats, also getting in about the mid-50s.

So Democratic states like Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Illinois, are gerrymandered to the hilt already.

TAPPER: Bakari is chuckling over here, Bakari from South Carolina.

SELLERS: I know.

The reason that I'm chuckling is, one, that's not -- Democrats don't -- it's not that we don't want to fight for Hispanic seats. I mean, it's the fact that you're rigging the election in the middle of the 10-year period. I mean, we have already gone through a census. That happens every 10 years. We don't change the rules in the middle of the game. That's one.

And, two...

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: I won 42, 43 percent of the vote in South Carolina. Bakari Sellers. It was because I was handsome, right? And we don't have 40 percent of the congressional seats. I mean, I hear that talking point all the time.

In Alabama, you win 40 percent of the vote. In Arkansas, you win 40 percent of the vote. Democrats win 40 percent of the vote here, there and everywhere else. That doesn't mean you get 40 percent of the congressional seats.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: But there's a lot of talk here about rigging the rules. In Texas, the rules do explicitly allow for this.

SELLERS: When was the last time it happened?

(CROSSTALK)

SOLTIS ANDERSON: In California, they do not. And, in California, that is why you have got someone like Gavin Newsom, who's going to have to sell to the voters of California, get rid of this independent commission. And he's going to have to get through folks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who originally advocated for that commission to do it.

TAPPER: By the way, just -- I'm coming right to you, but I just -- as long as she mentioned Schwarzenegger, he's a longtime opponent of gerrymandering. He -- an advocate for independent redistricting.

And this is -- he tweeted this out: "I'm getting ready for the gerrymandering battle."

(CROSSTALK) SELLERS: Is that how it sounded?

HAQ: Thank you for that.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: That's pretty good. Not bad. Anyway....

(LAUGHTER)

HAQ: Pulling back, listen, many Democrats are welcoming the idea that there are Democrats who are bringing a knife to the knife fight of redistricting.

[09:40:05]

But it points to this much bigger challenge, is that it's hyperpartisan. These -- you can be on the same block as somebody else and not be in the same district. The way our country has evolved to apportion voting power is fundamentally undemocratic.

SELLERS: Right.

HAQ: People are not -- one vote does not equal representation in Congress right now. And so this is part of the bigger political cronyism problem that we're seeing in the way America...

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Right. And I think a lot of Americans are going to reject that outwardly.

I mean, I think all four of us would agree that you should be -- you should have independent commissions drawing these lines. Is that correct?

TODD: I'm not for independent commissions, But I'm for saying...

(CROSSTALK)

HAQ: Because it works for the Republicans' advantage.

TODD: No, I'm for keeping counties intact. If Democrats would join me and keep counties intact, keep districts compact, I can go along with that. But Democrats don't want that.

They want to use the urban vote to spread it out in as many districts as possible.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks, one and all, for being here. Really appreciate it.

Coming up next: President Trump looked at Vladimir Putin in the eye and Alaska. Did he see the same thing that all the previous presidents came to ultimately see?

That's after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:29]

TAPPER: I am sure most of you watching the Alaska summit on Friday, no matter what you think about President Trump, I'm sure most of you hoped that he was going to be able to pull off what he seemed confident he could, to get Putin to agree to a cease-fire and then ultimately on a path to end this horrific war on Ukraine.

I know that I was hoping that. I mean, who wouldn't want to end this bloodshed, hundreds of thousands dead, all of it prompted by Putin ordering the invasion of this sovereign nation, Ukraine, in early 2022?

Even Trump's nemesis and 2016 rival, Hillary Clinton, said that, if Trump were able to pull it off, she personally would nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If he could end it without putting Ukraine in a position where it had to concede its territory to the aggressor, if we could pull that off, if President Trump were the architect of that, I'd nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, let's be honest. Secretary Clinton didn't say that thinking that she would ever have to do such a thing. When and if there is a peace deal, Russia will almost certainly get something.

And it could be argued that one can't fault President Trump for hoping for the best and for trying for peace. He's following in a proud presidential tradition of reaching out to Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that the United States can do business with this man.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was able to get a sense of his soul.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have called for a reset in relations between the United States and Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: All of them inevitably running into the brick wall of the former KGB officer who thinks the fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Did you misjudge him earlier, or were you just trying to open a door?

BUSH: Vladimir Putin changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump thought that his relationship with Putin was different. He thought he could call Putin and end the Ukraine war just like that. On the campaign trail, he pledged to do so in his first 24 hours as president. He was not able to.

Last month, it did seem that President Trump was finally understanding the truth about his Russian counterpart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin, you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless.

I'd get home, I'd say, first lady, I had the most wonderful talk with Vladimir. I think we're finished. She will say to me one time, wow, that's strange because they just bombed a nursing home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Exactly. Exactly.

And four days ago, President Trump said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Will Russia face any consequences if Vladimir Putin does not agree to stop the war after your meeting on Friday?

TRUMP: Yes, they will, yes.

QUESTION: What will the consequences be?

TRUMP: There will be consequences.

QUESTION: Sanctions? Tariffs?

TRUMP: There will be -- I don't have to say. There will be very severe consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Very severe consequences.

Now, President Trump tried carrots in addition to threatening sticks. The summit was, of course, a welcome back to Putin from exile into the United States, Navy jets escorting Putin's plane, American service members literally rolling out a red carpet. Trump applauded. He shook Putin's hand. He invited him into the presidential limo. But nothing concrete was announced after the summit, certainly no

cease-fire.

So what about those very severe consequences, since Putin didn't agree to stop the war? Friday night, Trump said, never mind, at least for now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I don't have to think about that. Now, I may have to think about it in two weeks or three weeks or something, but we don't have to think about that right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And based on recent White House communications, it seems that Trump is now on Putin's page, saying that he wants the goal of a larger peace deal.

That allows Russia to keep fighting, instead of the immediate cease- fire deal that Ukraine and Europe and just a few days ago Trump had considered vital.

Here's the big question. Did President Trump, whose desire for this bloodshed to end is no doubt sincere, did he actually just make peace less likely?

[09:50:01]

Carl Bildt, the co-chair of the European Council on Foreign Relations, former prime minister of Sweden, posted on X -- quote -- "It's official. Trump has capitulated to Putin by dropping the demand for a cease-fire. Instead, the fighting will go on until there is a peace agreement that satisfies Putin. This was a hugely successful outcome for Putin. We are heading towards a longer war" -- unquote.

Now, we do not know if that will happen. But those who have been skeptical of Putin have a close-to-unblemished track record. If Carl Bildt proves correct, and this ultimately means a longer, bloodier war, well, the summit might in retrospect seem catastrophic.

Red states say they're sending National Guard troops into Washington, D.C. I'm going to tell you what we know about how many and what they will be doing. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:35]

TAPPER: President Trump's self-described crackdown on crime in Washington, D.C., is about to get more manpower. The Republican governors of West Virginia, South Carolina and Ohio are sending some of their National Guard troops to the city, at least 650 more troops in total, to support D.C. police.

The White House said Saturday those troops might now be armed, as President Trump signals he will focus on crime ahead of the midterm elections and openly mulls sending the National Guard to other Democratic-led U.S. cities.

Thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us. Former Biden adviser Jake Sullivan joins Fareed Zakaria next.