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State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Interview With Former Chicago, Illinois, Mayor Rahm Emanuel. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 24, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:19]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tit for tat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House Bill 4 is finally passed.

BASH: The redistricting wars are on, as Democrats counterattack.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): They fired the first shot, Texas. We're giving the American people a fair chance.

BASH: What states are next? And who has the edge now in the critical midterm elections? House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me live next.

And to the streets, a widening military crackdown in the works for a key U.S. city.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chicago's a mess.

BASH: As President Trump steps up his so-called law and order agenda, how will the city respond? Former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel is ahead.

Plus: retaliation. Trump's administration investigates a political enemy and fires another official who contradicted the president. How far will it go? Our panel of experts is here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is trying to keep up.

President Trump is flexing his political might over his critics and over officials who contradict him. And, this morning, we're learning about detailed plans to exert Trump's will over another U.S. city in a widening military crackdown. Sources tell CNN the administration is deep into plans to send National Guard troops to Chicago, more akin to what the president did in Los Angeles in response to protests there. But, this time, the mission would be more broad and experts say

unprecedented, to combat crime, the president focusing on that as an issue as he makes his case to voters ahead of the midterm elections, while he pushes other states to redraw their congressional maps, trying to pad his House majority, while Democrats decide how and whether they can fight back.

Here with me now is House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, congressman from New York.

Thank you so much for being here, Mr. Leader.

You met with your governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, last month about possibly redrawing New York's maps. Is this something you can even do in New York? And, if so, how many seats could you gain? And could you do it before the midterms?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, good morning. It's great to be with you.

I have been in touch, of course, with Governor Kathy Hochul, as well as the legislative leaders. House Democrats are going to respond from coast to coast and at all points in between, as has been done in California, forcefully, immediately, and appropriately to make sure that Donald Trump cannot steal the midterm elections.

BASH: OK. Can you be more specific? Just -- let's just talk about New York, where you obviously have a window into what's going on there. We know what California is doing. They're going to try to get this on the ballot. What can you do in New York? Is it even feasible to redraw the maps before the midterms?

JEFFRIES: Texas acted in a way to try and rig the congressional maps, so they could add a couple of different seats to the Republican column.

Understand that Republicans right now have the narrowest majority, just a three-seat majority, of any party since the Great Depression, and they have no track record of accomplishment to be able to successfully run on, which is why they are running scared.

California responded forcefully, thanks to the leadership of the governor, the legislative leaders, the members of the California congressional delegation led by Zoe Lofgren and Pete Aguilar. And we will continue to respond when necessary across the country.

Right now, this has happened in Texas. California has responded. Let's see what comes next.

BASH: So is there not a plan yet in New York? Is that what I'm hearing?

JEFFRIES: There's a plan to respond as appropriately in New York and in other parts of the country as the circumstances dictate.

BASH: Well, speaking of circumstances, Republicans are already looking beyond Texas. And if you look at the map, they could, adding it all up, get about six to eight seats if, big if, they're successful in redrawing maps in other GOP-led states.

Are you worried that that could be enough right there to prevent you from retaking the House?

JEFFRIES: Not at all.

Listen, as Democrats, we're focused on making life better for the American people, driving down the high cost of living. Right now, America is too expensive. Housing costs are too high. Grocery costs are too high. Electricity bills are through the roof. All of this is happening on Donald Trump's watch. He promised to lower the high cost of living, in fact, to lower the high cost of living on day one.

[09:05:12]

Costs aren't going down. They are going up. As Democrats, we're going to focus as well on fixing our broken health care system and cleaning up corruption. So we have an affirmative agenda that is compelling that we will continue to present to the American people.

The Republicans have failed. That is why they are running scared.

BASH: I want to move on to other issues, but, first, I do just have to ask. You talk a lot about Texas, as do other Democrats. You supported a move in your state of New York where Democrats, you wanted to throw out congressional maps that were drawn by the state's independent redistricting commission.

You praised New York's state legislature for redrawing new ones. Is criticizing Texas hypocritical, given what you pushed for in your own state?

JEFFRIES: Yes, so let's go into the actual facts.

The map was not drawn by the independent redistricting commission. The map was drawn by a special master who was put into place by a random right-wing judge in Steuben County. That was problem number one. Now, the court then ordered a redraw so that the process could actually be completed consistent with the Constitution of the state of New York. And that is what occurred.

Third, what's important is that, in New York, the redrawn map that was actually adopted by the legislature was adopted on a bipartisan basis. Democrats and Republicans in the Assembly voted for the map because the redraw was fair.

That's not what's happening in Texas. In Texas, this is a racial, partisan gerrymander ordered by Donald Trump as part of an effort to rig the midterm elections. And we're not going to let it happen. And at the end of the day, we were 24 seats down during Donald Trump's first midterm election in 2018.

BASH: Yes.

JEFFRIES: We won 40 seats in 2018.

BASH: Well...

JEFFRIES: There's no way that Republicans can mathematically gerrymander their way to an artificial victory next year.

BASH: Speaking of math, I do want to ask about a "New York Times" investigation showing that Democrats are losing registered voters in all 30 states that track party registration.

We're putting on the screen the data. It shows altogether Democrats have lost 2.1 million voters. Republicans have gained 2.4 million. That's a deficit that you have of 4.5 million voters. Why are voters turning away from your party? What is the problem?

JEFFRIES: Most of that activity, as I understand it, has occurred in Florida and Texas. And, certainly, it is the case that, nationally, we're going to have to invest more in these two red states.

At the end of the day, it's also going to be important for us to continue to make clear to the American people what we stand for as Democrats. We believe in a strong floor and no ceiling. In this country, you work hard. You play by the rules. There should be no ceiling as to what success you can accomplish for yourself, for your family, for your children, for your grandchildren, and your community.

At the same period of time, we do, as Democrats, believe in a strong floor. That's a strong floor that is anchored in Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, veterans benefits, nutritional assistance, and the Affordable Care Act, the things that Republicans are actually trying to detonate.

That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats. And the more we can lean in to what we stand for as a party, the better off we will be moving forward.

BASH: There is new reporting this morning that President Trump has a detailed plan, it's been in the works for weeks, apparently, to send National Guard troops into Chicago.

What is your plan as the Democratic leader in the House to fight that?

JEFFRIES: Well, I strongly support the statement that was issued by Governor Pritzker, making clear that, one, there's no basis, no authority for Donald Trump to potentially try to drop federal troops into the city of Chicago.

There's been no request from the state of Illinois, no request at all for federal assistance. I support the Chicago Police Department. I support the New York Police Department. These are men and women who have taken an oath to protect and serve these communities, and they do a great job of that.

And we should continue to support local law enforcement and not simply allow Donald Trump to play games with the lives of the American people as part of his effort to manufacture a crisis and create a distraction because he's deeply unpopular. The one big ugly bill is deeply unpopular. Ripping health care away from millions of Americans is unpopular. Enacting tax breaks for their billionaire donors is deeply unpopular.

[09:10:23]

And that's why a lot of this is taking place, Dana.

BASH: Do you think it's manufactured that Americans even likely in the city of Chicago are worried about crime?

JEFFRIES: Of course people are going to be worried about public safety all across America.

I represent a community that for decades has had to deal with the crack cocaine epidemic, the failed war on drugs, gunshots going off at different points in time in communities. So, of course, all of us will continue to focus on making sure we can drive down crime whenever and wherever it is taking place.

This is not about the American people. The American people understandably want safer communities. As Democrats, we want safer communities. We want to continue to make sure that crime can go down, as it's doing in Chicago, in New York, in Washington, D.C., and other places.

And, to do that, we should support local law enforcement. We should make sure that the flood of guns into these communities is cut off. We should make sure that we're dealing with the mental health crisis that exists all across the United States of America, and, by the way, which Donald Trump is exacerbating by cutting funds to actually help people who are dealing with emotional distress.

BASH: I want to ask you about something that President Trump is doing here in Washington, which is, he's launched a review of the Smithsonian Museums because he says -- quote -- "Everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was."

You're the highest-ranking African-American in the U.S. government. What do you think?

JEFFRIES: There is no good aspect of slavery. And so Donald Trump is once again behaving like a racial arsonist.

And it's extraordinary that he would make such a historically ignorant statement. The Smithsonian should continue to hold the line and make sure that this very painful part of American history is not erased, but is understood by everyone across this country and throughout the world.

BASH: Is there anything that you can do from your perch in Congress to protect the way that you describe the Smithsonian and how they describe history?

JEFFRIES: Donald Trump does not have control of the Smithsonian as an institution. Actually, the chair of the Smithsonian Board, as I understand it, is

Chief Justice John Roberts. And so we're going to continue to support the Smithsonian, and we're going to continue to make sure we fight back against any effort to erase our history and, as Democrats, continue to make sure that, at this moment in time, we are fighting hard to make life better for the American people in this country.

Work hard, play by the rules, live the good life, good-paying job, good housing, good health care, good education for your children, and a good retirement.

BASH: You have yet to endorse Zohran Mamdani, who, of course, your party elected about two months ago to be the Democratic candidate for mayor of New York City.

As a New Yorker, what does he need to do to secure your endorsement?

JEFFRIES: Well, we had a very candid and constructive and community- centered conversation a few weeks ago before he went off to Africa. I have, of course, been on the road for the last several weeks dealing in part with the Republican effort to try to rig the midterm elections through their gerrymandering scheme.

But Congresswoman Yvette Clarke, the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, and myself are scheduled to sit down with him in the next few days. I look forward to that conversation.

BASH: What do you want to hear from him? What's missing? I mean, it's pretty -- just for context, it's pretty unusual for a high-ranking Democrat like yourself to withhold the endorsement of your party's nominee for candidate for New York City mayor.

So, what are you hoping to hear from him that you haven't yet?

JEFFRIES: I don't think we have withheld an endorsement. We are engaging in a conversation about the future of New York City, about the issues that need to be addressed, particularly the housing crisis.

And the assemblyman has actually spoken pretty forcefully and strongly about the need to deal with affordability in the city of New York. Of course, we have got to figure out, moving forward, how we turn proposals into actual plans, so that he is successful if he becomes the next mayor because we need the city to be successful and certainly the communities that I represent which have been subjected to gentrification and housing displacement.

[09:15:22]

These are all issues to be worked through.

BASH: Yes.

JEFFRIES: And we will continue to work through them.

BASH: Is it...

JEFFRIES: As I mentioned, we're sitting down next week.

BASH: Does it have anything to do with the fact that he hasn't denounced using the term or endorse -- supporting the term globalize the intifada?

JEFFRIES: Well, listen, I have raised several of the issues with him privately, as well as publicly spoken about some of the concerns that I have had.

But, at this particular moment, we're going to keep those conversations moving forward. They will continue to be candid and constructive. And I'm looking forward to sitting down with him in the next few days, along with Chairwoman Yvette Clarke, who represents the neighboring congressional district to mine right here in the heart of Central Brooklyn.

BASH: One last final quick question, because we are out of time.

The government is going to run out of money on September 30, in about a month. The president has not yet met with you or the Democratic leader in the Senate. Any plans that you know of?

JEFFRIES: Well, it's my expectation that, at some point upon our return to Washington, we will have a conversation with President Trump and perhaps Republican leadership about making sure we avoid a painful government shutdown.

But we have to fund the government in a way that meets the needs of the health, the safety, the economic well-being and the national security of the American people. As Democrats in the House, we are not going to accept a partisan spending bill that continues to harm and hurt everyday Americans and rewards their billionaire donors.

They did that with respect to the one big ugly bill that's now law. Not a single Democrat in the House and the Senate supported it. And so, if they want to move forward in a bipartisan way, then we actually have to solve problems for hardworking American taxpayers...

BASH: OK.

JEFFRIES: ... not create a country of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires.

BASH: OK, Hakeem Jeffries, Democratic leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate it.

JEFFRIES: Thank you.

BASH: Up next: He contradicted the president over Iran. Now he's out of a job. Signs the administration is clamping down on dissent this week, that's next.

And we're learning more about the president's plan to bring troops to another blue city.

Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:22:09]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I have a national emergency, I can keep the troops there as long as I want. Beautiful ladies are saying, please, President Trump, come to Chicago.

I'm not a fan of John Bolton. I thought he was a sleazebag, actually.

That's a man named Vladimir Putin. I thought it was a nice picture of him, OK of me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: As you see there, President Trump has a lot on his mind.

My panel is with me now.

I just do want to drill down on some of the retribution that happened as the week ended, John Bolton, the raid on his house, and also something that happened late on Friday, which is firing the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. And that is the agency that said that they weren't sure that, when the U.S. bombed Iran's nuclear sites, that they got it all. I'm paraphrasing that.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLDBERG: I mean, drop that hockey puck.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: So, I think we can make some important distinctions between some of these things.

We don't really know what the real justification for the John Bolton thing is. I have known John Bolton for a long time. I agree with him on a lot of things. I suspect that he's right and that this is retribution, but we should also wait and see what they actually told a judge and what they're looking for.

The -- General Kruse from the Defense Intelligence Agency, that feels much more like what happened with the BLS commissioner of just this administration and this president has this attitude that, when -- I have been calling it critical Trump theory.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: Any information or facts that have a disproportionate negative consequence for Donald Trump, he thinks must be proof of some sort of bias or rigged system. And I think the signals that this sends, with the games with the Fed,

games with BLS, that information from the permanent bureaucracy and from the experts in this administration cannot necessarily be trusted anymore, is a really bad one for the country.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

So I'm just, for starters, as part of the 90 percent of black women who did not vote for Donald Trump, we don't want you in Chicago. Trust me, black women are not in the streets of Chicago calling on him to come. That was part of the quote.

But, more importantly, look, I think this is also a sign of weak leadership, because, instead of trying to solve problems or addressing here's what the labor statistics actually tell us, I'm just going to change out the staff so we're not going to hear bad facts. I don't want to hear the facts, to what you're saying, that don't go with my theory of the case.

And, ultimately, it is bad for not just our democracy, but the strength of our economy. And global leaders know that.

And I think he's also falling into a mistake, frankly, that Joe Biden made for several years, which is, I'm just going to keep telling you that what you feel and what you're experiencing in the economy isn't true. It's good. It's great. It's all great. The tariffs are great. Your costs may still be high. Inflation may still be high.

[09:25:10]

You -- by the way, health care costs are about to go up dramatically at the end of the year. But I'm just going to tell you what I want to tell you. I'm not going to listen to what's really happening.

BASH: Yes. He has a very high level of confidence in his power of persuasion.

FINNEY: Yes.

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the replacement of General Kruse, though, might not be retribution. It might be accountability, because all the other intelligence assessments of what happened in Iran-Contradict what General Kruse's report had concluded.

One of the authors of that report that he has signed to do it was also someone who said Hunter Biden's laptop was disinformation. So perhaps this is a judgment question. We ought to allow the executive to have some latitude to pick their own people.

General Kruse was appointed by the Biden administration. He served in another role in the Biden administration. So I don't think it's outlandish for the president to have someone who he has confidence in that job.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, but I think that Trump wants a loyalty test across the federal government. And that is the difference between his first term and his second term is, he really felt that he needed to have loyalty in the national security space, in the intelligence space.

So he's gotten rid of everybody who is potentially not loyal to him. And that brings me to Bolton, where he has an attorney general who is loyal to Trump, not loyal to the law. And he picked Pam Bondi for a reason and Kash Patel.

I think the matter with Bolton is whether or not he's applying the law evenhandedly. And I think that is a big question. We don't have enough facts yet. But we do wonder whether or not this is politicized and whether or not he is going to prosecute other people potentially on the mishandling of classified information.

BASH: Let me jump in on that and play something from the vice president of the United States talking about the Bolton investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, not at all. And, in fact, if we were trying to do that, we would just throw out prosecutions willy-nilly like the Biden administration, DOJ did, prosecutions that later got thrown out in court.

If we bring a case -- and, of course, we haven't done that yet. The Department of Justice has not done that yet. We're investigating Ambassador Bolton. But if they ultimately bring a case, it will be because they determine that he has broken the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The use of the word "we" is really striking there.

GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean...

BASH: Could you explain why?

GOLDBERG: Sure. This is one of these pesky democratic norm things.

But, historically -- I think the Trump administration has a better argument than a lot of his critics want to claim about how he actually is the unitary executive and all that kind of stuff.

But as a matter of practice, for sort of democratic legal hygiene, the Department of Justice was considered to be on a day-to-day basis this truly independent thing, and that the political arms and the political part of the White House wouldn't get in the way of those sorts of decisions about who to prosecute, when to prosecute, wouldn't want to prejudge any cases.

I mean, you have Donald Trump talking about John Bolton as if he's already guilty of something. You have him doing that kind of thing all the time. And the fact that Vance is saying "we' just is another one of those things that raises the hackles of people that think Trump wants the DOJ to basically be an arm of political enforcement, rather than law and order. TODD: I think that's a false sterility, though.

I mean, John F. Kennedy appointed his brother to be attorney general. Barack Obama appointed Eric Holder, who said, I'm going to be the president's wingman. Of course, Donald Trump wants an attorney general who he trusts. Of course, he wants someone who's close to him.

I don't think the voters who elected him expect any different.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: But I think there's -- I'm sorry.

I was going to say, but there's a chilling effect, right? It's very intentional what he's doing and how he's doing it, because there are -- as we know, he has an enemies list. And there are people who saw what was happening to John Bolton who are now saying, I need to be ready. They were saying that, frankly, when he was elected.

Some of them are people who came forward during the 2024 election who had either served in previous administrations who are now saying, I'm nervous. And so -- and that's very intentional. It's part of the bullying that we see from Trump all the time.

HINOJOSA: But specific to the Bolton investigation, there's reporting how it was closed in January of 2021. It was career prosecutors who closed that investigation. It was not political appointees. It was not Merrick Garland. It was not Lisa Monaco. And it was definitely not briefed to the White House.

What I will say here...

BASH: And you're saying that as somebody who...

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: As somebody who was at the Justice Department.

BASH: Yes.

HINOJOSA: Here, I actually don't know who opened the FBI investigation and whether or not -- and I think that's a big question, is whether it was career professionals or whether it was Pam Bondi and Kash Patel doing that and briefing the president, which is something that is unprecedented in the Department of Justice.

BASH: All right, everybody, stand by.

The Trump administration has a new mission for National Guard troops in Chicago. How will the city respond? I will ask a man with a lot of thoughts and a lot of titles. The one that matters right here is the former Chicago mayor.

There he is. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:34:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Chicago is a mess. You have an incompetent mayor, grossly incompetent, and we will straighten that one out probably next.

And the people in Chicago, Mr. Vice President, are screaming for us to come.

VANCE: They are, sir.

TRUMP: They're wearing red hats, just like this one.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: But they're wearing red hats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Getting new details about President Trump's plans for Chicago.

Here with me now is the former mayor of that city, CNN senior political and global affairs commentator Rahm Emanuel.

Thank you so much for being here.

So, CNN's new reporting is that President Trump has a detailed plan that has been actually in the works for weeks to send the National Guard into Chicago. As the former mayor of the Windy City, what's your reaction?

[09:35:04]

RAHM EMANUEL (D), FORMER MAYOR OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: Well, first, I think everybody should take a step back and realize that, as a commander in chief over his two terms, he's only deployed and put boots on the ground in American cities, never overseas. And just think about what that means as a country.

Second, and he gave his speech in Iowa. He said, "I hate Democrats," and this may be the reflection of that. I think the core issue here is, look, crime is coming down, specifically violence. But there's a persistent problem, which is carjacking. In fact, the DOGE individual in D.C. was a victim of an attempted carjacking.

There's technology actually to deal with that problem. It hasn't dropped as much as homicides and shootings. And that's where the federal government can work with cities and work with mayors and work with county officials to actually reduce carjackings, which are the bigger problem in cities and the persistent problem in that area.

And, lastly, I think, look, the attack here is also in the area of prosecutions. And they should -- the U.S. attorney's offices across the country should get back to prosecuting gun crimes in cities across the country and states across the country, unlike what's happening in D.C.

And Democrats' answer isn't, here's the law or this is unprecedented, which is true. We have a strategy for fighting crime, more police on the beat and getting kids, gangs, and guns off the street. And that is the strategy. And that's what has to be done. And, in this area, you can actually do it with carjackings.

BASH: Is this going to be a flash point in Chicago? How do you think people are going to react?

EMANUEL: Well, it depends on -- it would be interesting. Is he going to put -- try to put National Guard around Michigan Avenue or downtown?

Or is he going to go into Englewood or other parts of the city that do have a crime problem and do have to be approached? And my guess is, when you look at what he did in D.C., he's not going to actually deal with crime. This is an attempt to get the goods through customs. This is an attempt to deal with cities that are welcoming cities, known as sanctuary cities, and deal with immigration.

This will not be about fighting crime.

BASH: If you were still...

EMANUEL: And when he said in that video that -- somehow that Chicago is a mess, well, compared to a White House that uses Signal chat to do national security, it's not a mess.

BASH: If you were still mayor, how would you handle it?

EMANUEL: Well, I would say, work with us on public safety. Here are the five things you could do, technology to deal with carjackings, prosecuting gangs and gun violence in the city, working on the issues of drugs and guns coming into the city, and helping coordinate a task force that deal with confronting gangs throughout the city.

Those are the things that I would say. Right now, partner with us. Don't try to come in and act like we can be an occupied city.

BASH: I want to ask you about a couple of international flash points.

A group of global experts backed by the U.N. declared this week that Gaza City and its surrounding territory are officially suffering from famine. The Israeli prime minister, Netanyahu, posted on X -- quote -- "This is an outright lie."

And the U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, responded: "To the uninformed who claim Israel is starving Gaza, get the facts." He went on to say: "Tons of food has gone into Gaza, but Hamas savages stole it."

What do you think?

EMANUEL: Well, a couple things, Dana. One is, this is a product of the fact that he was -- Prime Minister

Netanyahu was told in the early days of the war, you better have a day-after plan. And now there is no day-after plan, and there's chaos there. And there is an issue as access to food and there is hunger. There is famine. It's a war zone.

Second is, we're coming on the two-year anniversary of the October 7, where Hamas killed 1,200 people, raped and maimed women and killed children in front of their families and took hundreds of hostages. There's also coming on in 30 days from now Rosh Hashanah.

And I think the Israeli government, as they send their delegation to Cairo to negotiate, has to make a decision. Will these young men, mainly men, who are taken hostage spend the Jewish holiday, the second year in a row, in a tunnel or in a temple? Will they be with their captors or be with their community?

And it is incumbent upon the government in Israel to choose a temple over a tunnel. The IDF says it. The Israeli public says it. And the parents of these children say it. And this is a product, in my view, of a prime minister who refused to make the political strategic decisions in which he has degraded the Hamas, destroyed their capability, but doesn't have a plan for what to do next.

BASH: Real quick, on Ukraine, the president said he will give it another two weeks before deciding if he's going to punish Vladimir Putin for failing to meet with the Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy.

Is there any hope of any imminent diplomatic solution at this point?

EMANUEL: No. This is the fifth time the president has issued somewhat a cutoff for Putin.

[09:40:00]

Putin -- he is either playing with Putin -- or playing along with Putin, rather, or Putin is playing him. There's two months left to this part of the war because of the weather change. Putin is under tremendous strain and stress in military.

And if we actually allow Ukraine, like we allowed Israel, to win a war, rather than, in the Ukraine situation, not to lose a war, you can actually change the dynamics and bring Putin to the table, economically sanction him, give Ukraine the ability to prosecute the war, and you will have a different negotiation at the table.

And the president of the United States has refused to actually seize that he has the upper hand here, but he is playing his cards very poorly as a negotiator.

BASH: Former ambassador under Joe Biden, former Chicago mayor, former a lot of things, Rahm Emanuel, thank you so much for being here this morning. Appreciate it.

EMANUEL: Thanks. BASH: Up next, more on Chicago, plus the new Democratic tactic that's getting under the Republicans' skin, particularly the president -- when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:40]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

President Trump has detailed plans to send troops into Chicago.

My panel is here to discuss.

Karen Finney, you just heard Rahm Emanuel, the former mayor of Chicago, talking about the fact that he believes that, if they do want to help with crime, which is clearly still a very big problem in Chicago, that what the administration should do is help with funding for local law enforcement and other services.

FINNEY: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

And, look, I think we're having this conversation where Donald Trump says this is about fighting crime. It's not. I mean, look at his own record. Earlier this year, in the DOGE cuts, they cut $800 million from more judges for juvenile courts, crime prevention programs, Violence Against Women Act programs that help victims, victim assistance programs.

These are programs that were put in place during the Biden administration, actually, some even before that, that Trump used to praise actually in his first term, that were -- are part of helping to bring down crime rates across the country.

So if you really care about public safety and bringing crime down, go to the approaches that we know work. Don't defund them and then try to roll in troops to say, I'm the hero, because that's -- it makes it clear that's not what this is about.

TODD: Well, there are different approaches to fighting crime.

And last year -- when Rahm Emanuel was mayor of Chicago, there were about 400 homicides a year. Now there are about 600 a year. I suspect that the people who lost a loved one last year to 600 homicides in Chicago will welcome any amount of help, if that's more federal law enforcement, no matter what.

Republicans believe we cannot defund the police, we must prosecute crime. Rahm said we need to prosecute more gun crime. The problem is, a lot of left-wing prosecutors have stopped prosecuting crimes of all kind. That's the real challenge here. And I think we're seeing a reset here. Maybe it'll be better for safety.

HINOJOSA: Well, I also think that Donald Trump is only targeting states with Democratic governors and Democratic governors who potentially want to run for president, right? And it's not lost on me that the mayors in these places where he's

targeting are all black.

FINNEY: Yes.

HINOJOSA: And I think that this is a very political move.

I also think that Democrats, and especially the governors and mayors of these cities should start beating Trump to the punch on the National Guard and start asking the federal -- federal government for resources for more programs to take kids off the streets...

FINNEY: Yes.

HINOJOSA: ... for more law enforcement help, not National Guard, but would you like to provide some funding for us, things like that, instead of letting him respond.

BASH: Speaking of beating to the punch or trying to call him out, let's talk about redistricting and what Gavin Newsom is -- has been doing, which he stepped up once again this past week.

Separate and apart from the actual legislation that passed, just in terms of the communications fight that he's waging against President Trump, just one example: "Wow, my maps, the best maps ever made, will soon pass in the greatest legislature anywhere in the world, not just America. These are perfect, beautiful maps, better than Columbus, better than Google Maps."

He went on and on and on. If you don't get it, you probably should go look at some of President Trump's posts, because this is one of the many ways that he tried to mirror what Donald Trump does on social media.

GOLDBERG: Yes, I got to say, rarely have I been so torn about a topic that matters so little.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: I find that this, the Gavin Newsom sort of funny dad routine with the all caps tweets making fun of Trump, I got no problem making fun of Trump. It's a Democratic primary play more than anything else.

And so the people who love it are important to win in the Democratic primary. I don't -- I think the coverage of it, the obsession with it, this idea that there's been some coverage in, like, it was Politico or Axios, talking about how this is really working for Newsom.

And I was like, what are the metrics about this working for Newsom, other than it's trending on Twitter?

FINNEY: Well, we're talking about it, and we have been talking about it for -- I'm just saying.

GOLDBERG: I get it. FINNEY: I say, kudos to his digital team, because they figured out a way to break through.

And what I really love, what we all really love is watching the preciousness of the FOX hosts flipping out, when it's the same language that you hear from Trump.

[09:50:03]

GOLDBERG: No, I agree. I agree. I agree.

FINNEY: I love that.

HINOJOSA: And I was highly critical of Gavin Newsom when he did the interview with Steve Bannon. And I don't think he should be giving people like Steve Bannon a platform.

But, at the same time, now he's found his niche, which is fighting fire with fire. And that's what you hear him saying. That's great.

BASH: Ten seconds.

TODD: I want to get to the real matter here. The redistricting is the question.

When Republicans controlled redistricting, they ended up with 75 percent of the seats in those states. When Democrats controlled it, they got 87 percent. What's happening with Democrats and redistricting in California is atrocious. They already did their gerrymandering. Gavin Newsom is just trying to run for president.

HINOJOSA: Texas shouldn't have done it then.

FINNEY: Yes.

BASH: We will see if it passes, because it's up to the voters now in California.

Thanks, all of you, for a great conversation.

Hard to believe Hurricane Katrina was 20 years ago. I was there with President George W. Bush in the wake of the storm.

We will talk about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:27]

BASH: In September 2005, I was covering George W. Bush, then president, on his first trip to New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. It was a sobering moment, one that can sneak up on any president.

Now, in these fractured political times, we should all take a moment to remember what happened in New Orleans, watch out for one another, to prevent anything like that aftermath from happening again. For more, tune in tonight to watch "The Rebirth of the Superdome." It airs at 9:00 p.m. Be sure to tune in.

Thank you so much for tuning in this morning.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.